Friday, May 21, 2010

rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

Buzz It
rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Hey, where's Allen Lim? - 10 messages, 8 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/795e9be85851966c?hl=en
* Morotized Doping? - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c78ad58063d0ada7?hl=en
* Lance this AM - "I'm 100% clean, always have been and if I'm lying may God
strike me off my bike today" - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/054daff39f109f2f?hl=en
* Lemond - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bc2f64af3f18801c?hl=en
* Nothing About CFE Today? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2f8b9aa5de2a2a9c?hl=en
* Shack statements - 5 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/891622678a7f6e7f?hl=en
* Another Landis conspiracy theory - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f72b12913c02f73c?hl=en
* Poor Brent Kay was delusional and duped by Floyd - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7c46a5f76b32b84c?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hey, where's Allen Lim?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/795e9be85851966c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 5:26 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article
<e5cc5994-8703-4b87-8e19-49446b72641c@a20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
Andy Coggan <acoggan@earthlink.net> wrote:

> On May 21, 3:52 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > On 5/21/2010 4:47 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On May 21, 3:04 pm, Amit Ghosh<amit.gh...@gmail.com>  wrote:
> > >> On May 21, 3:21 pm, Andy Coggan<acog...@earthlink.net>  wrote:
> >
> > >>> Actually, come to think of it didn't he (Landis) claim that he
> > >>> approached Andy Ryhs (Rhys?) about paying for a drug program at
> > >>> Phonak, and that Ryhs declined?
> >
> > >> dumbass,
> >
> > >> no, he says rihs paid for the doping program.
> >
> > > Ah, thanks for the clarification - as I said, I haven't been paying
> > > much attention.
> >
> > > Andy Coggan
> >
> > Apparently for a very long time. ;-)
>
> Some things - such as the existence of doping in cycling, the
> relationship between VO2 and cycling power output, or your obsession
> with Armstrong - never really change. I can therefore walk away from
> this newsgroup for years and yet come back to find that I haven't
> missed a single thing.

You missed plenty. Lafferty was not posting, for instance.

--
Old Fritz


== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 5:39 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


Andy Coggan wrote:
> On May 21, 4:53 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On 5/21/2010 5:25 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:> On May 21, 4:23 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> To get back to the topic of the thread, has there been any statement
>>>> from Lim? Any statement from Coyle?
>>> Why would you expect any statement from Coyle? That's like expecting
>>> Armstrong's 3rd grade teacher to come forward at this juncture.
>>> Andy Coggan
>> Wrong, Andy. I suspect they are both keeping quiet on advice of
>> counsel. While I don't expect statements from them anytime soon, I hope
>> people will post links here should they break the silence.
>
> You didn't answer my question: why in the world would you expect Coyle
> to issue any sort of a statement? You could probably count the number
> of times that he and Armstrong have been in contact on your fingers
> and toes, and it's not like this is the first time that anyone has
> accused Armstrong of doping.
>
> Let's take it one step further: assume that the accusations Landis has
> made prove to be true...why would Coyle issue any sort of statement
> even then??

Well, DUH!!!

So that he could admit that Lafferty was right and he was wrong,
obviously. Also, that the glove that didn't fit OJ was his. I'm sure
he'd like to get THAT off his chest.


== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 5:55 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/21/2010 8:16 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:
> On May 21, 4:53 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On 5/21/2010 5:25 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:> On May 21, 4:23 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> To get back to the topic of the thread, has there been any statement
>>>> from Lim? Any statement from Coyle?
>>
>>> Why would you expect any statement from Coyle? That's like expecting
>>> Armstrong's 3rd grade teacher to come forward at this juncture.
>>
>>> Andy Coggan
>>
>> Wrong, Andy. I suspect they are both keeping quiet on advice of
>> counsel. While I don't expect statements from them anytime soon, I hope
>> people will post links here should they break the silence.
>
> You didn't answer my question: why in the world would you expect Coyle
> to issue any sort of a statement? You could probably count the number
> of times that he and Armstrong have been in contact on your fingers
> and toes, and it's not like this is the first time that anyone has
> accused Armstrong of doping.
>
> Let's take it one step further: assume that the accusations Landis has
> made prove to be true...why would Coyle issue any sort of statement
> even then??
>
> Andy Coggan
Please show us where I ever said that I expected Coyle or Lim to make a
statement? I didn't. But, if either of them do issue a statement, I
hope someone gives us the link. I have better things to do than keep an
eye open for what the might say.

If what Landis says is true, why would anyone expect a meaningful
statement from them?


== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 5:56 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/21/2010 8:26 PM, Frederick the Great wrote:
> In article
> <e5cc5994-8703-4b87-8e19-49446b72641c@a20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
> Andy Coggan<acoggan@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> On May 21, 3:52 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/21/2010 4:47 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On May 21, 3:04 pm, Amit Ghosh<amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On May 21, 3:21 pm, Andy Coggan<acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Actually, come to think of it didn't he (Landis) claim that he
>>>>>> approached Andy Ryhs (Rhys?) about paying for a drug program at
>>>>>> Phonak, and that Ryhs declined?
>>>
>>>>> dumbass,
>>>
>>>>> no, he says rihs paid for the doping program.
>>>
>>>> Ah, thanks for the clarification - as I said, I haven't been paying
>>>> much attention.
>>>
>>>> Andy Coggan
>>>
>>> Apparently for a very long time. ;-)
>>
>> Some things - such as the existence of doping in cycling, the
>> relationship between VO2 and cycling power output, or your obsession
>> with Armstrong - never really change. I can therefore walk away from
>> this newsgroup for years and yet come back to find that I haven't
>> missed a single thing.
>
> You missed plenty. Lafferty was not posting, for instance.
>
That's what happens when God sticks his head up his ass. :-)


== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 6:05 pm
From: "derFahrer@gmail.com"


On May 21, 6:32 am, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> ....

... apparently has grown bored with tilting at chess windmills. From
Armstrong to Polgar and back to Armstrong again. What, can't find a
new and different obsession?

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 6:53 pm
From: "H. Fred Kveck"


In article <64ydnVDchZ_MAmvWnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
"B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote:

> Best get yourself a mop and bucket to clean up the bile that you've
> spilled before it eats away at the linoleum in your home.

> (snip) it's fun to drop in here to see you guys go nuts
> with stupid, vitriolic attacks.

> In the end, Lim, Coggan and all the other Armstrong apologists have been
> providing little more than comic relief.

Project much, Brian?


== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 8:14 pm
From: "derFahrer@gmail.com"

> > In the end, Lim, Coggan and all the other Armstrong apologists have been
> > providing little more than comic relief.
>
>    Project much, Brian?

Whether he recognizes it or not, Lafferty groks irony.


== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 8:24 pm
From: Andy Coggan


On May 21, 7:55 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 5/21/2010 8:16 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 21, 4:53 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com>  wrote:
> >> On 5/21/2010 5:25 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:>  On May 21, 4:23 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com>    wrote:
> >>>> To get back to the topic of the thread, has there been any statement
> >>>> from Lim?  Any statement from Coyle?
>
> >>> Why would you expect any statement from Coyle? That's like expecting
> >>> Armstrong's 3rd grade teacher to come forward at this juncture.
>
> >>> Andy Coggan
>
> >> Wrong, Andy.  I suspect they are both keeping quiet on advice of
> >> counsel. While I don't expect statements from them anytime soon, I hope
> >> people will post links here should they break the silence.
>
> > You didn't answer my question: why in the world would you expect Coyle
> > to issue any sort of a statement? You could probably count the number
> > of times that he and Armstrong have been in contact on your fingers
> > and toes, and it's not like this is the first time that anyone has
> > accused Armstrong of doping.
>
> > Let's take it one step further: assume that the accusations Landis has
> > made prove to be true...why would Coyle issue any sort of statement
> > even then??
>
> > Andy Coggan
>
> Please show us where I ever said that I expected Coyle or Lim to make a
> statement?

I guess I formed that impression when when you asked whether either of
them had made a statement, as if you were expecting one:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/646093074cb2e2f2

Of course, if you *weren't* expecting one, I have absolutely zero idea
why it ever occurred to you to ask that quesion...

Andy Coggan


== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 8:45 pm
From: DA74


On May 21, 8:24 pm, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On May 21, 7:55 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 5/21/2010 8:16 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:
>
> > > On May 21, 4:53 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com>  wrote:
> > >> On 5/21/2010 5:25 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:>  On May 21, 4:23 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com>    wrote:
> > >>>> To get back to the topic of the thread, has there been any statement
> > >>>> from Lim?  Any statement from Coyle?
>
> > >>> Why would you expect any statement from Coyle? That's like expecting
> > >>> Armstrong's 3rd grade teacher to come forward at this juncture.
>
> > >>> Andy Coggan
>
> > >> Wrong, Andy.  I suspect they are both keeping quiet on advice of
> > >> counsel. While I don't expect statements from them anytime soon, I hope
> > >> people will post links here should they break the silence.
>
> > > You didn't answer my question: why in the world would you expect Coyle
> > > to issue any sort of a statement? You could probably count the number
> > > of times that he and Armstrong have been in contact on your fingers
> > > and toes, and it's not like this is the first time that anyone has
> > > accused Armstrong of doping.
>
> > > Let's take it one step further: assume that the accusations Landis has
> > > made prove to be true...why would Coyle issue any sort of statement
> > > even then??
>
> > > Andy Coggan
>
> > Please show us where I ever said that I expected Coyle or Lim to make a
> > statement?
>
> I guess I formed that impression when when you asked whether either of
> them had made a statement, as if you were expecting one:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/646093074cb2e2f2
>
> Of course, if you *weren't* expecting one, I have absolutely zero idea
> why it ever occurred to you to ask that quesion...
>
> Andy Coggan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Listen Cogster - Quit dicking around here. The bottom line is that
"Dr." Allen Lim should absolutely make a statement. Floyd accused him
of providing blood transfusions to not only himself but Levi
Leipheimer. I think the esteemed "physiologist" who spilled copious
amounts of digital and conventional ink to defend Floyd's unbelievable
performance in the Tour with graphs and charts and mathematical
calculations would be champing at the bit to respond.

The guy he spent months or even years defending has turned around and
accused him of performing medical procedures without a medical license
and conspiring to cheat in bicycle races.

I can't imagine any scenario where an innocent person wouldn't at
least immediately deny allegations as devastatingly serious as these
especially with such a simple and easy way to communicate with the
public like Twitter, which he used so prolifically until May 18th.

Fucking wake up man.
-DA74


== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 9:07 pm
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd


On May 21, 7:57 am, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> I haven't said anything about indictments being handed down against
> Armstrong. I really don't care if he's indicted or not. I do think it
> would be good if Armstrong and his buddies like Johann and George are
> called before a Grand Jury to answer questions.

Why? Does he have information on the big fishy
Goldman Sachs deal or something?

Grand juries can investigate whatever a prosecutor wants
to investigate, usually, but typically there is a possibility of
a crime being uncovered somewhere in the prosecutor's
jurisdiction. So I'm not sure a prosecutor will find this of
interest. I don't recall any grand juries hearing testimony
on whether or not Bill Belichick ordered the taping of
other football teams' practices.

> That he will be
> interviewed by Federal agents is fairly likely.  As some rather big
> sports stars have learned, it's not nice to lie to Federal
> investigators.  It tends to upset them and lead to bigger problems.

Is there a federal crime involved? Sure, you can get
practically anyone to commit a crime by having Federal
agents ask them enough questions that it would be
embarrassing to answer. The reason we aren't all in jail
is that Federal agents haven't wasted their time on us yet.

> As for how I spend my time, I can assure you that Armstrong not in my
> thoughts at all absent a headline in the non-cycling press. But, when he
> does hit the headlines, it's fun to drop in here to see you guys go nuts
> with stupid, vitriolic attacks.

http://mingus.as.arizona.edu/~bjw/misc/rbr/waitwhat.jpg

Sincerely,
Fredmaster Ben

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Morotized Doping?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c78ad58063d0ada7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 5:39 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article
<31ca491e-7fb7-425d-a617-34aa70a6ebb4@i31g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>,
Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjweiner@gmail.com> wrote:

> On May 20, 7:51 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > In article <ht4fel$sp...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> >  "Mark J." <MarkUse...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > DA74 wrote:
> > > > On May 19, 7:06 pm, "F. Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >> "Henry" <snogfest_hosebe...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >
> > > >>news:d4ea4b87-e1e9-438e-ac5b-89ecb3d5dc83@t14g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
> > > >> On May 20, 8:11 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >>>> I always kind of thought it was suspicious that Cancellara time
> > > >>>> trialed with those panniers.
> > > >>> as an electronincs luddite, I assume something like this is very easy
> > > >>> to create and hide. Battery and  motor in the frame.
> > > >> Dumbass -
> >
> > > >> IMO, in this particular project the electronics are easy and the hard part
> > > >> is mechanical.
> >
> > > >> Very doable, given enough resources. I think it'd be fun to build something
> > > >> like this and use it on some group training ride. Cheating like that in a
> > > >> real race though is just way, way beyond anything done before. It's way
> > > >> worse than doping.
> >
> > > >> thanks,
> >
> > > >> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
> >
> > > > It sounds rickfuckingdiculous. This smells like that other bullshit
> > > > story in ~'03 where Lance was supposedly testing out magnetic bearings
> > > > that would make pedaling a bike like an act of levitation. Plus this
> > > > "motor" weighs four fucking pounds!  Come on guys...
> > > > -DA74
> >
> > > Here's the pictures and video.  Try to keep up.
> > >http://www.gruberassist.com/english/product/product-description/
> >
> > > Not four pounds, but even then, who cares if the thing carries its own
> > > weight?
> >
> > 0.9 kg motor
> > 1.7 kg battery
>
> I was wondering how much this could do on
> stored-energy grounds. The Gruber assist
> seems to have a capacity of 4.5 amp-hours,
> maximum draw 6 amps for 45 minutes, and is
> claimed to deliver 200 watts. The battery pack
> is a Li-Ion, 4.5Ah, 30 V (see the technology page).
> So we are looking at a draw of ~180 W and the
> actual power delivered to the drivetrain would be
> a little less, depending on how efficient the gear
> reduction is.
>
> Anyway, that's a stored energy of about 135 W*hour.
> Assuming the battery weighs about 1.3-1.5kg and the
> rest is housing, that's an energy density of
> order 90-100 W*hour/kg. Wikipedia says 100-250
> W*hour/kg for Li-ion and I have a laptop battery here
> that weighs 0.5 kg for 78 W*hour, so it's reasonable.
>
> So you couldn't get a boost of 100 W for an entire
> several-hour tour stage, although of course a decent
> rider shouldn't need it most of the time. If the hard
> parts of the stage are less than two hours long you
> could get a 50-60 watt boost then (or use it for the
> not so hard parts to save your legs while riding in the
> peloton where the noise might obscure the gearbox
> noise). 50-60 W is not much but certainly enough to
> make a difference. Of course, for a Masters Fattie
> race that is only 2-3 hours long and where the overall
> wattage is lower, it would make a bigger difference.
>
> So this device actually has more potential for illicit
> use than I thought when I started looking at it,
> even if you used a half-size battery to hide it inside the
> frame. The main questions I have are how its
> torque or RPM sensing works, that is does it know
> how to adjust the speed so it provides just a fractional
> assist above whatever cadence and power the rider
> selects, and how noisy/efficient is the gear drive.
>
> All the e-bikes I have heard have a somewhat
> noticeable whine from the transmission.
> This machine differs from common e-bikes by
> having a lower-capacity, much smaller, more expensive
> battery technology, plus hiding the drive at the BB.
>
> Anyway, screw Masters Fattie disk wheels and Zipps,
> this is the next frontier of buying speed.

Somebody getting a 100 watt boost would look as if
he were. It would be obvious he is not working that hard
(unless he were Thomas Voeckler.)

--
Old Fritz


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 5:57 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article
<0227236a-cfb4-4361-9f09-720d627df831@y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
Brad Anders <pbanders@gmail.com> wrote:

> On May 20, 11:57 pm, "H. Fred Kveck" <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com>
> wrote:
> > In article <5d518116-35aa-4864-a1d3-e7e91dc66...@j36g2000prj.googlegroups.com>,
> >  Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On May 20, 9:56 am, "F. Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > "Brad Anders" <pband...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > > >news:4e2aaf83-f7e2-4216-b1cc-790cea6d0914@f13g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > > > Lots of innovation in Silicon Valley, and lots of master's with
> > > > > engineering expertise and money. I think the FBI ought to do a raid on
> > > > > Chang's shop, that's where this is all coming from. Anyone who can
> > > > > make a laser harp can make one of these jobbies.
> >
> > > > Dumbass -
> >
> > > > I was thinking about making one and taking it out to a practice crit, but my
> > > > bandmate isn't down for the time wastage.
> >
> > > > thanks,
> >
> > > > Fred. presented by Gringioni.
> >
> > > You should do it, anyway. Check around and see if they still have
> > > those Thursday night crits in Fremont, and IIRC, there used to be a
> > > series near Berkeley. I think it would be absolutely hysterical to see
> > > the reaction of riders around you when you kicked that thing in.
> >
> > > All kidding aside, such devices have a huge amount of utility for the
> > > non-racing cyclists out there. I know Bill Bushnell has built a hybrid
> > > bike, I'm sure others have done so.
> >
> >    From what I recall, Bill's bike is putting out more than 500 watts, depending on
> > the motor and batteries. He has a couple of battery setups - one for endurance and
> > one for short events. It's a pretty cool setup but it isn't light.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I found some pics of Bill's setup.
>
> http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/power_gold_rush_build/index3.html

Lots of pictures of minutia, and finally on page 8 is a close up
of some working parts from which we can finally _infer_ the
energy transfer mechanism.

I still have no clue about the servo mechanism controlling
the power output of the motor. Since the motor drives the
rear cluster directly, it needs to back off for shifting.

Other than that, interesting.

--
Old Fritz


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 6:01 pm
From: "z, fred"


Frederick the Great wrote:
> In article
> <31ca491e-7fb7-425d-a617-34aa70a6ebb4@i31g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>,
> Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjweiner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On May 20, 7:51 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>> In article <ht4fel$sp...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> "Mark J." <MarkUse...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> DA74 wrote:
>>>>> On May 19, 7:06 pm, "F. Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> "Henry" <snogfest_hosebe...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:d4ea4b87-e1e9-438e-ac5b-89ecb3d5dc83@t14g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>> On May 20, 8:11 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I always kind of thought it was suspicious that Cancellara time
>>>>>>>> trialed with those panniers.
>>>>>>> as an electronincs luddite, I assume something like this is very easy
>>>>>>> to create and hide. Battery and motor in the frame.
>>>>>> Dumbass -
>>>>>> IMO, in this particular project the electronics are easy and the hard part
>>>>>> is mechanical.
>>>>>> Very doable, given enough resources. I think it'd be fun to build something
>>>>>> like this and use it on some group training ride. Cheating like that in a
>>>>>> real race though is just way, way beyond anything done before. It's way
>>>>>> worse than doping.
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>>>>> It sounds rickfuckingdiculous. This smells like that other bullshit
>>>>> story in ~'03 where Lance was supposedly testing out magnetic bearings
>>>>> that would make pedaling a bike like an act of levitation. Plus this
>>>>> "motor" weighs four fucking pounds! Come on guys...
>>>>> -DA74
>>>> Here's the pictures and video. Try to keep up.
>>>> http://www.gruberassist.com/english/product/product-description/
>>>> Not four pounds, but even then, who cares if the thing carries its own
>>>> weight?
>>> 0.9 kg motor
>>> 1.7 kg battery
>> I was wondering how much this could do on
>> stored-energy grounds. The Gruber assist
>> seems to have a capacity of 4.5 amp-hours,
>> maximum draw 6 amps for 45 minutes, and is
>> claimed to deliver 200 watts. The battery pack
>> is a Li-Ion, 4.5Ah, 30 V (see the technology page).
>> So we are looking at a draw of ~180 W and the
>> actual power delivered to the drivetrain would be
>> a little less, depending on how efficient the gear
>> reduction is.
>>
>> Anyway, that's a stored energy of about 135 W*hour.
>> Assuming the battery weighs about 1.3-1.5kg and the
>> rest is housing, that's an energy density of
>> order 90-100 W*hour/kg. Wikipedia says 100-250
>> W*hour/kg for Li-ion and I have a laptop battery here
>> that weighs 0.5 kg for 78 W*hour, so it's reasonable.
>>
>> So you couldn't get a boost of 100 W for an entire
>> several-hour tour stage, although of course a decent
>> rider shouldn't need it most of the time. If the hard
>> parts of the stage are less than two hours long you
>> could get a 50-60 watt boost then (or use it for the
>> not so hard parts to save your legs while riding in the
>> peloton where the noise might obscure the gearbox
>> noise). 50-60 W is not much but certainly enough to
>> make a difference. Of course, for a Masters Fattie
>> race that is only 2-3 hours long and where the overall
>> wattage is lower, it would make a bigger difference.
>>
>> So this device actually has more potential for illicit
>> use than I thought when I started looking at it,
>> even if you used a half-size battery to hide it inside the
>> frame. The main questions I have are how its
>> torque or RPM sensing works, that is does it know
>> how to adjust the speed so it provides just a fractional
>> assist above whatever cadence and power the rider
>> selects, and how noisy/efficient is the gear drive.
>>
>> All the e-bikes I have heard have a somewhat
>> noticeable whine from the transmission.
>> This machine differs from common e-bikes by
>> having a lower-capacity, much smaller, more expensive
>> battery technology, plus hiding the drive at the BB.
>>
>> Anyway, screw Masters Fattie disk wheels and Zipps,
>> this is the next frontier of buying speed.
>
> Somebody getting a 100 watt boost would look as if
> he were. It would be obvious he is not working that hard
> (unless he were Thomas Voeckler.)
>

The only time the effort would be apparent would be if he was physically
throttling back in a group. By himself or trying to burn people off his
wheel, he would still ride to his max + X watts.


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 9:50 pm
From: Brad Anders


On May 21, 5:57 pm, Frederick the Great <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <0227236a-cfb4-4361-9f09-720d627df...@y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
>  Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 20, 11:57 pm, "H. Fred Kveck" <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com>
> > wrote:
> > > In article <5d518116-35aa-4864-a1d3-e7e91dc66...@j36g2000prj.googlegroups.com>,
> > >  Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 20, 9:56 am, "F. Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > "Brad Anders" <pband...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:4e2aaf83-f7e2-4216-b1cc-790cea6d0914@f13g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > Lots of innovation in Silicon Valley, and lots of master's with
> > > > > > engineering expertise and money. I think the FBI ought to do a raid on
> > > > > > Chang's shop, that's where this is all coming from. Anyone who can
> > > > > > make a laser harp can make one of these jobbies.
>
> > > > > Dumbass -
>
> > > > > I was thinking about making one and taking it out to a practice crit, but my
> > > > > bandmate isn't down for the time wastage.
>
> > > > > thanks,
>
> > > > > Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>
> > > > You should do it, anyway. Check around and see if they still have
> > > > those Thursday night crits in Fremont, and IIRC, there used to be a
> > > > series near Berkeley. I think it would be absolutely hysterical to see
> > > > the reaction of riders around you when you kicked that thing in.
>
> > > > All kidding aside, such devices have a huge amount of utility for the
> > > > non-racing cyclists out there. I know Bill Bushnell has built a hybrid
> > > > bike, I'm sure others have done so.
>
> > >    From what I recall, Bill's bike is putting out more than 500 watts, depending on
> > > the motor and batteries. He has a couple of battery setups - one for endurance and
> > > one for short events. It's a pretty cool setup but it isn't light.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I found some pics of Bill's setup.
>
> >http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/power_gold_rush_build/...
>
> Lots of pictures of minutia, and finally on page 8 is a close up
> of some working parts from which we can finally _infer_ the
> energy transfer mechanism.
>
> I still have no clue about the servo mechanism controlling
> the power output of the motor. Since the motor drives the
> rear cluster directly, it needs to back off for shifting.
>
> Other than that, interesting.
>
> --
> Old Fritz

Hey, if you're interested, just email him, I'm sure his email is easy
enough to figure out. I'm pretty sure he'd tell anything you want to
know.

Brad Anders

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lance this AM - "I'm 100% clean, always have been and if I'm lying may
God strike me off my bike today"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/054daff39f109f2f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 5:49 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


Anton Berlin wrote:
>> He must have sent jesus fucking christ to do his dirty work.
>
> In other news the church and it's infinite wisdom chimed in on
> Venter's DNA work.
>
> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ha2hIikQvHx347p3JzHAAdXUIIjAD9FR87BG3

"Catholic Church teaching holds that human life is God's gift, created
through natural procreation between a man and woman."

That's St. Thomas Aquinas' schtick there. The church had serious
problems with his ideas when he was alive, too. Too bad they got over it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lemond
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bc2f64af3f18801c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 6:05 pm
From: "F. Kurgan Gringioni"

"Keith" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:vjvdv5hoci5k18i7mnibhl1ul5joofov7k@4ax.com...
>
> Yes, I suspect a lot of immunity is going ot be granted to get to the
> bottom of this.

<snip>


Dumbass -

No there isn't. For many reasons. The biggest one being that everything
happened in Europe. The US Attorneys won't do jack.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 7:10 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article <06adnT25besbaWvWnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
"B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On 5/21/2010 4:31 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
> > http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/05/20/2010-05-20_greg_lemond_believes_most_of_floyd_landis_statements_about_doping_in_cycling.html
>
> This is interesting:
>
> "In that lawsuit, LeMond subpoenaed Armstrong's ex-wife, Kristin
> Armstrong, for a deposition in which she was asked if she ever saw her
> ex-husband use performance-enhancing drugs. She did not answer, on
> orders from her attorney, Tim Herman, who has represented Lance
> Armstrong as well."
>
> I suspect that Trek (and Armstrong) were facing a motion to compel
> Kristen to answer the question, a motion that would likely be granted.
> Tthen the case settled (after a judge ruled the case would go to trial)
> and now it's all "confidential." Lovely.
>
> I wonder why Herman direct his client not to answer if the answer was,
> "I never saw or had any reason to believe that Lance was using any thing
> improper for performance enhancement."

The answer is a new concept for you:

It was none of their business.

--
Old Fritz

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nothing About CFE Today?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2f8b9aa5de2a2a9c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 6:08 pm
From: "barry j taylor"


take a gander at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a39HT6X4OPk&NR=1
and I think I would have wanted Righi's head in a bucket as well

--
--
a friendly growl and a hug from

_--| \ __ __ __ _ __
/ \ /__/ / /__/ /__ /_\ /__/
\.-- *_/ /__/ _/ /__/ /__ / \ / \
v

by the pool at 34 58' 45.27" S 138 36' 47.89" E elev 281 ft


barry j taylor < taylorbj@aapt.net.au>

************************************************
"Never be boastful, someone
may pass who knew you as a
child" karma bear
************************************************

"K. Fred Gauss" <Fred@fredlier.than.thou> wrote in message
news:4bf6d7dd$1@news.x-privat.org...
> On 05/21/2010 07:27 AM, bar wrote:
>> On May 21, 10:22 am, "K. Fred Gauss"
>> <Some...@Somewhere.You.Dont.Wanna.Be> wrote:
>>> H. Fred Kveck wrote:
>>>> I realize the Flandis story was kind of a big deal but I'm sort of
>>>> surprised that
>>>> no one mentioned CFE's slap fight with Lampre's Daniele Righi in Stage
>>>> 12 of the
>>>> Giro. I'm thinking he's starting to show cracks a little early this
>>>> year.
>>>
>>> There was a passing mention in the Cycling News story I read, but
>>> nothing more. What happened?
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FeTGfPd6rY&NR=1
>
> Thank you! It's the Cadel Evans of old! He'll cut your head off, you know!


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Shack statements
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/891622678a7f6e7f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 7:07 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article
<99d512a1-f86e-4d31-a53c-f69a569df56a@a2g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
Anton Berlin <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On May 21, 2:20 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On May 21, 2:49 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > interesting reading, take a look at the email trail.
> >
> > >http://www.livestrong.com/teamradioshack/
> >
> > > Yeah, Landis seems credible alright.
> >
> > dumbass,
> >
> > blackmailing someone only works if you have real dirt on them.
> >
> > if landis is telling the truth, there is nothing illegal about it.
>
> Amit,
>
> You've got that 100% wrong. Blackmailing - even when it's the truth
> is still an illegal act that has criminal and civil liabilities.
> Blackmailing involves the promise to not publically disclose truthful
> information that otherwise would be legally or normally allowed.
>
> I believe you're thinking of slander and libel where 'truth is an
> absolute defense'

Taking money for not publishing damaging lies is extortion.

--
Old Fritz


== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 7:38 pm
From: "F. Kurgan Gringioni"

"Keith" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:oltdv5dpbsg26ld3ged63gu2ou74s1aa8h@4ax.com...
>>
>>Amit,
>>
>>You've got that 100% wrong. Blackmailing - even when it's the truth
>>is still an illegal act that has criminal and civil liabilities.
>
> Yeah, but that's not going to make the facts go away, right ?

Dumbass -

Flandis doesn't have any actual evidence.

Fingerpointing doesn't constitute evidence.

Regardless, even if he did, it's still blackmail. Flandis is seriously dumb.
I kinda feel sorry for him. He has dug himself a deep, deep hole.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 7:39 pm
From: "F. Kurgan Gringioni"

"Amit Ghosh" <amit.ghosh@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fbafd11e-b312-40fe-b8be-

> blackmailing someone only works if you have real dirt on them.
>
> if landis is telling the truth, there is nothing illegal about it.

Dumbass -

See the David Letterman case.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 8:22 pm
From: "H. Fred Kveck"


In article <ht7g3n$ee0$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
"F. Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:

> "Keith" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:oltdv5dpbsg26ld3ged63gu2ou74s1aa8h@4ax.com...
> >>
> >>Amit,
> >>
> >>You've got that 100% wrong. Blackmailing - even when it's the truth
> >>is still an illegal act that has criminal and civil liabilities.
> >
> > Yeah, but that's not going to make the facts go away, right ?

> Flandis doesn't have any actual evidence.
>
> Fingerpointing doesn't constitute evidence.

Or a "fact."

> Regardless, even if he did, it's still blackmail. Flandis is seriously dumb.
> I kinda feel sorry for him. He has dug himself a deep, deep hole.

I'd say he's pretty much radioactive from here on out. I wonder what Rahsaan
Bahati is thinking right now...


== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 9:40 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> "Amit Ghosh" <amit.ghosh@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:fbafd11e-b312-40fe-b8be-
>
>> blackmailing someone only works if you have real dirt on them.
>>
>> if landis is telling the truth, there is nothing illegal about it.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> See the David Letterman case.
>

Dumbass,

You are correct.

That said, Landis wont be prosecuted for blackmail. It's difficult to
pull an explicit threat associated with failing to meet his conditions
from any of these emails. You can't prove that blackmail was his intent
solidly enough to get a conviction. Any reasonable prosecutor will see this.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Another Landis conspiracy theory
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f72b12913c02f73c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 7:15 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article <ZYCJn.181$mj4.12@newsfe08.iad>, "z, fred" <Nope@not.ca>
wrote:

> William Fred wrote:
> > It's not about doping, Landis was paid to do this by Giganews as part of
> > their long-term plan to revive usenet. They're starting with rbr.
> >
>
> Speaking of that, Cox is planning to stop providing usenet as of the end
> of June, but suggests Giganews? as a paid alternative.
>
> Anyone know of a /good/ free alternative? Please don't say Google Groups
> because I don't care for their formatting.

Google is not a news server, so I would never recommend it.
There are free news servers for text only, and some paid
news servers with a small annual fee.

A web search on "news server" works.

--
Old Fritz

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Poor Brent Kay was delusional and duped by Floyd
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7c46a5f76b32b84c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 9:15 pm
From: DA74


Did you guys even read that craziness in the emails Radio Shack
released? The poor guy was trying to negotiate with Lance to get Radio
Shack to hire Floyd after the Tour de France this year so Floyd could
go win the Vuelta in September. Seriously.

The best part is that he wrote that an appropriate salary for Floyd
would be an average of Cavendish's and Contador's and Wiggin's current
salaries. According to him Floyd "should be compensated as a Tour de
France champion." He also said that "several riders of much lower
status make a million or so a year."

He referenced Floyd's second place at Battenkill as evidence. The race
a few weeks ago where Floyd was racing against a bunch of third rate
domestic pros and got dropped by a U23 Holowesko rider like a bad
habit near the finale.

Brent also mentioned that maybe everyone could just be nice to Floyd
and he might just lose those extra 10 pounds that will help him win
the Vuelta.

Unbelievable.

With all that said Floyd was fucking lucky to have a good friend like
him. Brent Kay went out on several limbs to hook him up and pleaded
with him not to go public with the allegations for the sake of him his
wife and Amber. The guy went to bat for him and Floyd just couldn't
help himself.

What a shame.
-DA74


==============================================================================

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