http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en
rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Zinn is wrong. - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/df5b012a69d08875?hl=en
* "No sports mistake is supposed to be fatal" - 8 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5e3c7e6891b8f805?hl=en
* Landis Attempts Deflection - 14 messages, 8 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bfe5ff0ba30cfb85?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Zinn is wrong.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/df5b012a69d08875?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 2:36 pm
From: Henry
On Feb 17, 11:25 am, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 16, 2:27 pm, Henry <snogfest_hosebe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 17, 10:09 am, ronaldo_jeremiah <ronaldo_jerem...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/02/technical-faq/technical-faq-sa...
>
> > > Zinn seems to think that these carbon frames can be repaired and made
> > > safe. Ha! It's like he doesn't even know about carbon's unstable,
> > > explosive properties, even in the absence of damage.
>
> > > -rj
>
> > so what's wrong with fixing it ? Carbon fibre and glue doesn't work ?
>
> You need to put your sarcasm hat on.
>
> Brad Anders
bother; I wasn't really being sarcastic; I'm ignorant - why can't cf
be glued ?
ITIR an Americas Cup boat delaminating and sinking, and believe the
glue is a key component.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 2:39 pm
From: "Tom Kunich"
"Henry" <snogfest_hosebeast@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2984954f-09db-4cec-95f7-42b7fa31f813@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 17, 11:25 am, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 16, 2:27 pm, Henry <snogfest_hosebe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > so what's wrong with fixing it ? Carbon fibre and glue doesn't work ?
> >
> > You need to put your sarcasm hat on.
>
> bother; I wasn't really being sarcastic; I'm ignorant - why can't cf
> be glued ?
Relax Henry, Brad was suggesting that you were being kidded. Brad is one of
the good guys.
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 3:16 pm
From: curtis@the-md-russells.org
On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:36:29 -0800 (PST), Henry
<snogfest_hosebeast@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Feb 17, 11:25 am, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 16, 2:27 pm, Henry <snogfest_hosebe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Feb 17, 10:09 am, ronaldo_jeremiah <ronaldo_jerem...@yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > >http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/02/technical-faq/technical-faq-sa...
>>
>> > > Zinn seems to think that these carbon frames can be repaired and made
>> > > safe. Ha! It's like he doesn't even know about carbon's unstable,
>> > > explosive properties, even in the absence of damage.
>>
>> > > -rj
>>
>> > so what's wrong with fixing it ? Carbon fibre and glue doesn't work ?
>>
>> You need to put your sarcasm hat on.
>>
>> Brad Anders
>
>bother; I wasn't really being sarcastic; I'm ignorant - why can't cf
>be glued ?
>ITIR an Americas Cup boat delaminating and sinking, and believe the
>glue is a key component.
If you ever saw the film that used carbon dust as a primary explosive
in battlefield level warfare, you would get off your carbon time bomb
and hope it doesn't go entropic in the immediate future. rbr is on the
forefront of combating this danger on the roads.
And whatever you do, don't smoke around that bicycle...
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 8:32 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<rick-paulos@uiowa.edu> wrote in message
news:0fc1fd73-f1de-4a9f-8584-28bdf14c554f@w31g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
> What a fluff piece for calfee. Wonder how much he paid vsnooze for
> that 'article'.
Fluff piece or not, at least Calfee has taken on the task of repairing what
most have considered disposable. Will this drum up more biz for Calfee's
repair department? Very likely. Is that a bad thing? Absolutely not.
Anything that can get us away from $3000+ disposable frames is, in my
opinion, a good thing.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
==============================================================================
TOPIC: "No sports mistake is supposed to be fatal"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5e3c7e6891b8f805?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 2:48 pm
From: Michael Press
In article <hlcnlo$e5u$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
"KurganGringioni" <soulinthemachine@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Ryan Cousineau" <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:rcousine-8F148D.09060415022010@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]...
> : In article <eP2dnROZZpgr1uTWnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> : Bob Schwartz <bob.schwartz@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote:
> :
> : > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> : > > I saw the video. The implication is that they never expected a racer
> to
> : > > leave the course there, which is possibly fair. It was super-late: he
> : > > was actually past the last corner, but had such a drawn-out
> corner-exit
> : > > incident that he ended up riding up a (fairly tall) wall and popped
> out
> : > > of the chute.
> : >
> : > Seriously? No one would expect someone to come off the
> : > course at the bottom when speeds are highest? Over the
> : > lifetime of the facility, which will host competitions
> : > where Olympic level skills are the exception rather
> : > than the rule?
> : >
> : > Seriously?
> : >
> : > Bob Schwartz
> :
> : Expected to fall off their sleds? Yes. Expected a luger to exit there?
> : Well, one assumes a basic level of non-ghoulishness among the course
> : designers.
> :
> : What is obvious in retrospect is less so beforehand.
> :
> : Heck, every cyclocross race I tend to have disagreements with designers
> : about what I consider a reasonable route, and acceptably consequential
> : obstacles. Sometimes I get my way* and sometimes I don't. So far,
> : despite my qualms, there have been no deaths and I can recall only one
> : or two minor injuries. There may have been a broken bone in the last few
> : seasons, but I haven't seen it. Worst CX injury I ever saw was on a
> : training ride, when my friend BP sprinted into an invisible ditch in a
> : park, broke his fork, and couldn't remember his own phone number.
> :
> : Sorry, back to my point. The course was vetted by numerous agencies,
> : including the luge federation. They may not have known what they were
> : doing, but presumably "kill riders" was not part of the plan. It was
> : also in use for a few years. We're also talking about a sport that
> : involves unpadded racers on ice at 150 km/h.
> :
> : In hindsight, the barrier needed to be higher there. I'm glad they did.
> : I hope there are no further injuries. I hope nobody skis into a
> : snow-making machine, or collapses during their event and hits their head
> : (two actual ways Olympians have previously died).
> :
> : *mainly because my friend and club-mate Jak designs two of the courses
> : each year, and I do some of the pre-riding.
>
>
>
> Dumnbass -
>
> In bike racing the finish line isn't contested going downhill at 90mph.
>
> If it were, there'd be some elaborate safety precautions wouldn't there?
Yes, they would have a brace of ambulances at the finish.
--
Michael Press
== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 2:49 pm
From: Michael Press
In article <YOURhoward-40AC36.18274915022010@news.giganews.com>,
Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> In article <rcousine-8F148D.09060415022010@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Sorry, back to my point. The course was vetted by numerous agencies,
> > including the luge federation. They may not have known what they were
> > doing, but presumably "kill riders" was not part of the plan. It was
> > also in use for a few years. We're also talking about a sport that
> > involves unpadded racers on ice at 150 km/h.
>
> Well, no one has tried to say that the track was designed with fatalities as a
> positive part of the plan. But I heard this afternoon that the course designer (who
> has done the last three Olympic luge tracks) stated that the athletes are going
> almost twenty mph faster than he expected. He wasn't sure what happened between the
> design and the construction that could account for the extra speed. As for how long
> the track had been in use, I read yesterday that the Canadians (yeah, you!) had made
> it kind of hard for competitors from other countries to get runs in. The average
> Canadian team member had something over 250 runs while other countries' teams were at
> a fraction of that number. Kumaritashvili (the Georgian) only had about 25. But even
> the best guys are crashing on the track - the extra speed probably has a lot to do
> with that. As for the place Kumaritashvili ended up going off, it's at the exit of
> the turn, isn't it? The athlete that crashes ends up sliding for ages and at the
> speed they're going it's not all that surprising that someone could crash in a way
> that launches them out.
He did not go off course because he crashed.
--
Michael Press
== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 2:59 pm
From: Michael Press
In article <6sGdnRBt-L51NeTWnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
> "Michael Press" <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:rubrum-2DAF76.09442715022010@news.albasani.net...
> > In article
> > <96016453-fe64-4f0a-ab42-e58625352174@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>,
> > DirtRoadie <DirtRoadie@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Feb 14, 11:22 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > "One thing I know for sure is that no sports mistake is supposed to
> >> > lead to
> >> > a death. No sports mistake is supposed to be fatal," President Mikheil
> >> > Saakashvili told reporters Saturday.
> >> >
> >> > As tragic as the death of the luger was, and as seemingly-obvious the
> >> > dangers of that track were, it's still hard to believe someone making
> >> > that
> >> > statement, and have it embraced by so many others.
> >>
> >> I understand that statement to be a response to the bizarre
> >> implication from some official sources that the competitor was at
> >> fault or somehow not up to the task of competing. But even the
> >> defending gold medalist crashed. Yes, the fatal crash was unusual,
> >> maybe not foreseeable.
> >
> > I expect any luge guy will tell you not to steer into the
> > inside of a turn; and so it is foreseeable.
>
> Foreseeable, yes. But when you look at the photo I referenced elsewhere, at
> the top of this page-
> http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/35369187/ns/sports-olympic_sports/ - you may
> come away with a different feeling about it. Yes, a higher skill level is
> relevant, but balancing the cost of a mistake and its consequences vs the
> pretty low cost of raising the side of that wall...
At no time have I discussed what was in the exit trajectory.
I am perfectly clear about something that was foreseeable.
--
Michael Press
== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 3:00 pm
From: Michael Press
In article
<fd634446-7bb5-44d6-aa67-3acc970d92f8@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
DirtRoadie <DirtRoadie@aol.com> wrote:
> On Feb 15, 10:44 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > In article
> > <96016453-fe64-4f0a-ab42-e58625352...@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > DirtRoadie <DirtRoa...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > On Feb 14, 11:22 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > "One thing I know for sure is that no sports mistake is supposed to lead to
> > > > a death. No sports mistake is supposed to be fatal," President Mikheil
> > > > Saakashvili told reporters Saturday.
> >
> > > > As tragic as the death of the luger was, and as seemingly-obvious the
> > > > dangers of that track were, it's still hard to believe someone making that
> > > > statement, and have it embraced by so many others.
> >
> > > I understand that statement to be a response to the bizarre
> > > implication from some official sources that the competitor was at
> > > fault or somehow not up to the task of competing. But even the
> > > defending gold medalist crashed. Yes, the fatal crash was unusual,
> > > maybe not foreseeable.
> >
> > I expect any luge guy will tell you not to steer into the
> > inside of a turn; and so it is foreseeable.
>
> I would think a broad application of "Shit happens" and/or Murphy's
> law should dictate how safety precautions would be implemented - i.e.
> take every precaution possible.
> It would not seem that the racer was unqualified.
> http://www.nbcolympics.com/news-features/news/newsid=419540.html#luger+told+will+either+die
>
> http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/35369187/ns/sports-olympic_sports/
> "But the International Luge Federation and Vancouver Olympic officials
> said their investigation showed that the crash was the result of human
> error and that 'there was no indication that the accident was caused
> by deficiencies in the track.' '
>
> My take on it - Crash no. Injury yes.
Agree. The reason he went off course is piloting.
--
Michael Press
== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 3:02 pm
From: Michael Press
In article
<63465b2b-9c63-46a3-84ac-c3c405ed808e@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
"bjw@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjweiner@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 15, 1:33 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > But there's more to it than that, isn't there? You're also depending
> > upon the governing cycling federation to provide guidelines for who is
> > allowed to be out there. You can hold a category 1/pro event without
> > worrying that you're going to get a cat-4 guy in there who might be
> > strong but way over his head in terms of skills. You don't have to be
> > concerned about being all-inclusive for who gets to race.
> >
> > Different story at the Olympics, at least for the luge. Every country
> > wants to have their people in there, regardless of how well qualified
> > they are for the particular event. We get some great stories from that;
> > who will forget Eddie the Eagle? But that particular case brought light
> > to a situation that may have some parallels here... he wasn't capable of
> > competing at the same level as the best athletes, potentially
> > endangering himself. As a result, the ski federation passed the "Eddie
> > the Eagle" rule, which basically says you have to place in the top 30
> > percent in international competition in order to compete in the
> > Olympics.
>
> Armin Zoeggeler crashed on the same luge course
> in practice.
Did he go off course?
> He wasn't hurt, but it is not as simple as
> saying that the guy who crashed and was killed was
> not good enough to be on the course and that his
> crashing is prima facie evidence of that.
Going off course is prima facie evidence.
--
Michael Press
== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 4:11 pm
From: "KurganGringioni"
"Howard Kveck" <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote in message
news:YOURhoward-40AC36.18274915022010@news.giganews.com...
: The average
: Canadian team member had something over 250 runs while other countries'
teams were at
: a fraction of that number. Kumaritashvili (the Georgian) only had about
25.
Dumbass -
The fatality notwithstanding, that just poor sportsmanship.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 4:12 pm
From: "KurganGringioni"
"Michael Press" <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:rubrum-441F5C.15003216022010@news.albasani.net...
: >
: > http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/35369187/ns/sports-olympic_sports/
: > "But the International Luge Federation and Vancouver Olympic officials
: > said their investigation showed that the crash was the result of human
: > error and that 'there was no indication that the accident was caused
: > by deficiencies in the track.' '
: >
: > My take on it - Crash no. Injury yes.
:
: Agree. The reason he went off course is piloting.
Dumbass -
One could say the same thing about crashes in crits, but that doesn't
prevent us from haybaling traffic lights, parking meters, telephone poles
and the like.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 8:39 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> Dumnbass -
>
> In bike racing the finish line isn't contested going downhill at 90mph.
>
> If it were, there'd be some elaborate safety precautions wouldn't there?
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
You never raced Nevada City did you? No, not 90mph, but it does finish on
the downhill, and every single lap you're flying down a *fast* descent
straight into a 90 degree turn. It was more fun when they made the turn a
bit further up the hill, onto a much-narrower, just over one-lane road.
One year I raced it, I watch a guy lose his nerve on that descent and not
even try to make the corner. Just plowed straight into the elaborate safety
precautions (hay bails).
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Landis Attempts Deflection
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bfe5ff0ba30cfb85?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 3:00 pm
From: "KurganGringioni"
"MrVidmar" <vidmar@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:v6-dnS2eAv2Zb-fWnZ2dnUVZ_vli4p2d@giganews.com...
: Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
: >
: > "MrVidmar" <vidmar@nowhere.com> wrote in message
: >> Are you really this stupid??!! Of course USADA doesn't "do" criminal
: >> cases. Stupid one, they are the victims of what looks like criminal
: >> behavior on the part of Landis and Baker. As victims (it cost them
: >> thousands of $$ to rebut tainted, doctored evidence resulting from
: >> alleged illegal computer hacking) they would go to the US Attorney and
: >> ask the US Attorney to open an investigation (criminal) against
: >> Landis, Baker and anyone else involved.
: >
: >
: > It won't happen.
: >
: > The US Attorney won't care about this.
: >
: > Please go away.
: It might not happen. You have no way of knowing what interests US
: Attorneys building their career.
Dumbass -
It won't happen. The only instance of the Justice Department getting
involved in a sports dispute are Marion Jones and Barry Bonds and the reason
they did that is Bonds and Jones lied to a grand jury and federal
investigators, respectively. They didn't even go after Mark McGwire after he
evaded Congress' questions and McGwire is a 100 times bigger fish than
Flandis who never got punished. In contrast, Flandis has been punished by
the UCI and the sporting event in question was on foreign soil. The Feds
won't touch this. Waste of their time.
Think about that for a second. The steroid taking cheater who broke Roger
Maris' and by extension, Babe Ruth's record (done in 154 games instead of
162) never got prosecuted and they're going to go after Flandis? Ha. Your
delusionality hasn't changed.
The US Attorneys let the sports governing bodies run themselves, as they
should. They've got bigger things to concern themselves with.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
== 2 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 3:10 pm
From: curtis@the-md-russells.org
On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:22:12 -0500, MrVidmar <vidmar@nowhere.com>
wrote:
>Anyone today who thinks they can hack into a computer system and not
>leave an electronic trail is doing little more than make money for
>defense attorneys.
Sorry, happens all the time. Far more than people will admit that were
the targets. Please stop trying to sound like a computer expert when
you are not - and you are proving it more and more by the post.
Whatever the final outcome or disposition of the alleged hacking of
Landis' friend or whoever, a bad hacker is in no way an indication or
marker of the abilities of those that truly good at what they do. And
believe it or not, it is highly unlikely that anyone that is an expert
on either side of the issue is going to discuss openly on rbr what the
latest tools and techniques happen to be.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
== 3 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 3:34 pm
From: Fred Fredburger
MrVidmar wrote:
> It's a nice attempt at deflection, but that's not at all likely. I
> don't expect that Landis or Baker will address the forensic trail
> leading to Baker's IP address any time soon.
You're right. Neither Landis nor Baker are likely to address the
imaginary forensic trail that you've convinced yourself exists in some
hugely compelling way.
== 4 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 3:35 pm
From: MrVidmar
curtis@the-md-russells.org wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:22:12 -0500, MrVidmar <vidmar@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Anyone today who thinks they can hack into a computer system and not
>> leave an electronic trail is doing little more than make money for
>> defense attorneys.
>
> Sorry, happens all the time. Far more than people will admit that were
> the targets. Please stop trying to sound like a computer expert when
> you are not - and you are proving it more and more by the post.
>
> Whatever the final outcome or disposition of the alleged hacking of
> Landis' friend or whoever, a bad hacker is in no way an indication or
> marker of the abilities of those that truly good at what they do. And
> believe it or not, it is highly unlikely that anyone that is an expert
> on either side of the issue is going to discuss openly on rbr what the
> latest tools and techniques happen to be.
>
> Curtis L. Russell
> Odenton, MD (USA)
> Just someone on two wheels...
The myth of the good hacker is just that, a myth. Start with the Cohen
Report and I'll send you several more expert reports to read. The latest
tools an technologies won't be discussed here by the experts, but they
are discussed by experts in testimony for court cases and
professionally. Having just gone through litigation focused on just
these issues, I have more insight into the issue than many people. Our
side learned a lot and paid a lot for the education. I estimate that
our side spent in excess of $400,000 for forensics and internet law
experts to acquire insight into the hacking of email and faking of
Usenet postings. I'm not an expert, but I do know what I'm writing about
here whereas people like Schwartz don't.
I have to think that the idea that cyclists have that they can beat any
test or get over on the authorities led to a situation with Landis and
Baker that just did not translate into the hacking milieu. How far the
case will proceed in France and the US is dependent on many unknowns,
but the issues are there as raised and discussed here.
== 5 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 3:40 pm
From: Fred Fredburger
curtis@the-md-russells.org wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:22:12 -0500, MrVidmar <vidmar@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Anyone today who thinks they can hack into a computer system and not
>> leave an electronic trail is doing little more than make money for
>> defense attorneys.
>
> Sorry, happens all the time. Far more than people will admit that were
> the targets. Please stop trying to sound like a computer expert when
> you are not - and you are proving it more and more by the post.
>
He's convinced himself that all ISPs log and retain every incoming and
outgoing packet and retain all system and application logs. We wont be
able to convince him otherwise.
== 6 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 3:49 pm
From: MrVidmar
Fred Fredburger wrote:
> MrVidmar wrote:
>
>> It's a nice attempt at deflection, but that's not at all likely. I
>> don't expect that Landis or Baker will address the forensic trail
>> leading to Baker's IP address any time soon.
>
> You're right. Neither Landis nor Baker are likely to address the
> imaginary forensic trail that you've convinced yourself exists in some
> hugely compelling way.
>
>
Freddy, I suggest that you tell that to the French investigating judge
who issued the arrest warrant. Have you seen the forensic data?
Unlikely. Let's wait and see what the French court makes public. What
we have now is the report from the lab director that the hacking was
traced back to them by the court. Time will tell.
What I'm curious to hear is Landis' attorney's denial that he knoew
anything about the possibly of false data being placed into evidence by
him on Landis' behalf in the CAS proceedings. I don't see an attorney
of his caliber putting his career in jeopardy for a client.
== 7 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 3:52 pm
From: MrVidmar
Fred Fredburger wrote:
> curtis@the-md-russells.org wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:22:12 -0500, MrVidmar <vidmar@nowhere.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone today who thinks they can hack into a computer system and not
>>> leave an electronic trail is doing little more than make money for
>>> defense attorneys.
>>
>> Sorry, happens all the time. Far more than people will admit that were
>> the targets. Please stop trying to sound like a computer expert when
>> you are not - and you are proving it more and more by the post.
>>
>
> He's convinced himself that all ISPs log and retain every incoming and
> outgoing packet and retain all system and application logs. We wont be
> able to convince him otherwise.
You have no idea what I'm convinced of, period. Perhaps you would be
surprised by just how much data is stored and saved, even without formal
preservation requests.
== 8 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 3:54 pm
From: Henry
On Feb 17, 12:40 pm, Fred Fredburger
<Some...@Somewhere.You.Dont.Wanna.Be> wrote:
> cur...@the-md-russells.org wrote:
> > On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:22:12 -0500, MrVidmar <vid...@nowhere.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Anyone today who thinks they can hack into a computer system and not
> >> leave an electronic trail is doing little more than make money for
> >> defense attorneys.
>
> > Sorry, happens all the time. Far more than people will admit that were
> > the targets. Please stop trying to sound like a computer expert when
> > you are not - and you are proving it more and more by the post.
>
> He's convinced himself that all ISPs log and retain every incoming and
> outgoing packet and retain all system and application logs. We wont be
> able to convince him otherwise.
not that I want to feed the troll, and I do agree with truism of this
comment, logs _can_ be stored and retained quite cheaply; I doubt that
most ISP's want to take on that overhead; I have managed a 2000 user
mail gateway and the logs were kept (hopefully) forever, but not the
attachments. Feed them into a database, archive.
== 9 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 7:37 pm
From: --D-y
On Feb 16, 3:27 pm, bar <barbari...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 16, 3:53 pm, RobertH <r15...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 16, 10:53 am, --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > > This Polgar chick really hurt you bad, bro.
> > > --D-y
>
> > I can't believe after 37 posts this one was still up for grabs.
>
> Godammit, that was MY line!! Serves me right for taking the morning
> off from rbr.
>
> -b-
>
> p.s. "go fuck yourself" is trending quite high today ...
Neck and neck with "stupid", by an informal guesstimate.
I was hoping to transmit a sort of general meaning, if you know what I
mean, and I only want to borrow
your line this once I promise.
Possibly the most applicable instance, I have to say.
--D-y
== 10 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 7:44 pm
From: bar
On Feb 16, 10:37 pm, --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
> On Feb 16, 3:27 pm, bar <barbari...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 16, 3:53 pm, RobertH <r15...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 16, 10:53 am, --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > > > This Polgar chick really hurt you bad, bro.
> > > > --D-y
>
> > > I can't believe after 37 posts this one was still up for grabs.
>
> > Godammit, that was MY line!! Serves me right for taking the morning
> > off from rbr.
>
> > -b-
>
> > p.s. "go fuck yourself" is trending quite high today ...
>
> Neck and neck with "stupid", by an informal guesstimate.
>
> I was hoping to transmit a sort of general meaning, if you know what I
> mean, and I only want to borrow
> your line this once I promise.
>
> Possibly the most applicable instance, I have to say.
> --D-y
no hard feelings, bro ... you did what had to be done.
== 11 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 7:49 pm
From: Bob Schwartz
MrVidmar wrote:
> The myth of the good hacker is just that, a myth. Start with the Cohen
> Report and I'll send you several more expert reports to read. The latest
> tools an technologies won't be discussed here by the experts, but they
> are discussed by experts in testimony for court cases and
> professionally. Having just gone through litigation focused on just
> these issues, I have more insight into the issue than many people. Our
> side learned a lot and paid a lot for the education. I estimate that
> our side spent in excess of $400,000 for forensics and internet law
> experts to acquire insight into the hacking of email and faking of
> Usenet postings. I'm not an expert, but I do know what I'm writing about
> here whereas people like Schwartz don't.
Dumbass,
Was Professor Vayer one of the experts? You know, he's a professor.
Bob Schwartz
== 12 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 7:50 pm
From: --D-y
On Feb 16, 5:00 pm, "KurganGringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
wrote:
(snip snip, just want to ask a question)
So, I went looking and saw Lafferty's name (assuming another Brian is
the same Lafferty who used to go on about stuff like quarantining pro
bike riders, destroying the sport on purpose or at least ending racing
for a couple of years as effective and justifiable ploys in the War on
Doping) mentioned as one of the sue-ee's in the chess-mess that
vidmore is talking about-- ironically, whatever the letters stand for,
it's USCF for chess, too. Yeah, Chess Federation, I guess. Whatever.
Well well, looks like someone called someone else a poopyhead or
something in court, and else is mighty PO'd.
Question is, is this "vidmar" the same entity as Lafferty?
Can you imagine posting to a cycling newsgroup with the nom-de-net
"MrMerckx"? Effrontery, anyone?
They're all still doping. Chess players included.
<g>
Regards,
--D-y
== 13 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 8:49 pm
From: Fred Fredburger
Henry wrote:
> On Feb 17, 12:40 pm, Fred Fredburger
> <Some...@Somewhere.You.Dont.Wanna.Be> wrote:
>> cur...@the-md-russells.org wrote:
>>> On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:22:12 -0500, MrVidmar <vid...@nowhere.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Anyone today who thinks they can hack into a computer system and not
>>>> leave an electronic trail is doing little more than make money for
>>>> defense attorneys.
>>> Sorry, happens all the time. Far more than people will admit that were
>>> the targets. Please stop trying to sound like a computer expert when
>>> you are not - and you are proving it more and more by the post.
>> He's convinced himself that all ISPs log and retain every incoming and
>> outgoing packet and retain all system and application logs. We wont be
>> able to convince him otherwise.
>
> not that I want to feed the troll, and I do agree with truism of this
> comment, logs _can_ be stored and retained quite cheaply; I doubt that
> most ISP's want to take on that overhead; I have managed a 2000 user
> mail gateway and the logs were kept (hopefully) forever, but not the
> attachments. Feed them into a database, archive.
Sure, it CAN be done. As you say though, the motivation is generally
lacking.
== 14 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 16 2010 8:51 pm
From: Fred Fredburger
MrVidmar wrote:
>
> You have no idea what I'm convinced of, period.
Of course I know what you're convinced of, nitwit! You keep telling us.
==============================================================================
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "rec.bicycles.racing"
group.
To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rec.bicycles.racing+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/subscribe?hl=en
To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com
==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en
Posts
