http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en
rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* it's all about the radios - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5925d32c6527d207?hl=en
* P-R perspective - 14 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/465aba640c705c4a?hl=en
* Cancellara Can't... - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/cb78f893164022bd?hl=en
* Can't We All Just Get Along? - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/09050017eb68aa3a?hl=en
* I don't speak much Dutch but - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/07ad0fc39244f678?hl=en
* Cancellara can't win Amstel Gold and LBL - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/ac61e5eef9a984e6?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: it's all about the radios
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5925d32c6527d207?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 9:54 am
From: Scott
On Apr 13, 2:45 am, "Fred K. Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> "Betty Munro" <n...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>
> news:uemd97-173.ln1@donald.homeip.net...
>
> > Scott wrote:
> >> Moral of that story: Riis is really smart. Just ask him.
>
> > Natural selection, see also Bruyneel J.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Those are the two smart ones.
>
> No one else stands out.
>
> thanks,
>
> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
I don't disagree. I wasn't making fun of how Riis went to so much
trouble to bring it to everyone's attention that he is smart.
Q: What do Bjarne and his wife have in common?
A: They both love Bjarne.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 10:20 am
From: "Fred K. Gringioni"
"Scott" <hendricks_scott@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f7787498-e44e-4549-aac3-ac2cc2f64227@u31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> I don't disagree. I wasn't making fun of how Riis went to so much
> trouble to bring it to everyone's attention that he is smart.
>
> Q: What do Bjarne and his wife have in common?
>
> A: They both love Bjarne.
Dumbass -
I never really noticed that before, but I don't read the cycling press
enough to be any sort of authority. I'll take your word for it.
thanks,
Fred. presented by Gringioni.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: P-R perspective
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/465aba640c705c4a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 10:17 am
From: "Fred K. Gringioni"
"Scott" <hendricks_scott@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:60501e7f-29c1-4af1-8260-
> I see. I hadn't read that thread before posting, but now that I have,
> I have to say that some of your points were also addressed in my
> conversations last week while in Belgium. For example, I'd asked why
> Boonen insisting on sharing so much of the work during Flanders, and
> why he didn't just sit on more. It seems that it didn't have anything
> to do with Boonen not being smart enough or too stubborn or proud to
> sit on, but rather it all had to do with the fact that, unlike in US
> amateur racing, the Euro pros just can't get away with that as they
> would lose all respect amongst their peers. Apparently they don't see
> wheel-sucking as the art form that we do.
Dumbass -
That's bullshit. Read Hincapie's comments from Flanders and Boonen's
comments from Roubaix. There were always a few guys who wouldn't share in
the work chasing and it killed the cooperative will of those who would
(chasing Boonen/Cancellara @ Flanders and Cancellara @ P-R).
Sharing the work may have been an admirable ethos for Boonen in Flanders,
but his overaggressiveness @ Paris-Roubaix was his undoing. He wasn't nearly
as strong as Cancellara. If he wanted to win, he should've realized it and
tailored his tactics with that fact in mind.
thanks,
Fred. presented by Gringioni.
== 2 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 10:45 am
From: Scott
On Apr 13, 11:17 am, "Fred K. Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> "Scott" <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:60501e7f-29c1-4af1-8260-
>
> > I see. I hadn't read that thread before posting, but now that I have,
> > I have to say that some of your points were also addressed in my
> > conversations last week while in Belgium. For example, I'd asked why
> > Boonen insisting on sharing so much of the work during Flanders, and
> > why he didn't just sit on more. It seems that it didn't have anything
> > to do with Boonen not being smart enough or too stubborn or proud to
> > sit on, but rather it all had to do with the fact that, unlike in US
> > amateur racing, the Euro pros just can't get away with that as they
> > would lose all respect amongst their peers. Apparently they don't see
> > wheel-sucking as the art form that we do.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> That's bullshit. Read Hincapie's comments from Flanders and Boonen's
> comments from Roubaix. There were always a few guys who wouldn't share in
> the work chasing and it killed the cooperative will of those who would
> (chasing Boonen/Cancellara @ Flanders and Cancellara @ P-R).
>
> Sharing the work may have been an admirable ethos for Boonen in Flanders,
> but his overaggressiveness @ Paris-Roubaix was his undoing. He wasn't nearly
> as strong as Cancellara. If he wanted to win, he should've realized it and
> tailored his tactics with that fact in mind.
>
> thanks,
>
> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass,
I guess we'll just have to agree to agree. I'm not arguing against
your points, and apparently you're not arguing mine. We agree Boonen
overdid it at Roubaix and we don't disagree that some riders didn't
help in the chase, which is a completely different thing than sitting
on Cancellara's wheel for 50km and which would've resulting in great
scorn for Boonen.
Quick quiz: what is perhaps the single greatest example of a 'cagey'
rider sitting on the wheel of a strong TT rider, then outsprinting
them for the win? Think Big!
== 3 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 10:51 am
From: "Fred K. Gringioni"
"Scott" <hendricks_scott@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a69f6509-8d7b-41e2-b579-f162cc124434@q15g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 13, 11:17 am, "Fred K. Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com>
> Quick quiz: what is perhaps the single greatest example of a 'cagey'
> rider sitting on the wheel of a strong TT rider, then outsprinting
> them for the win? Think Big!
Dumbass -
I guess I missed your sarcasm. Sorry.
As for the question, I think most people would say Bruyneel/Indurain at the
TdF, but the one I like is Sean Kelly/Moreno Argentin @ Milan-San Remo. That
was epic.
thanks,
Fred. presented by Gringioni.
== 4 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 11:34 am
From: Amit Ghosh
On Apr 13, 12:46 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 12, 11:21 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You're right, you don't have to be a multi-classics winner, but it
> does lend a bit more credence to it than say, your opinion or perhaps
> TK's opinion. You go win L-B-L and maybe we'll pay attention to you.
dumbass,
here's a list of recent LBL winners :
valverde
di luca
hamilton
vandenbroucke
rebellin
vinokourov
camenzind
berzin
gianetti
i figure i'm just a couple faxes and oil changes away from a podium
spot.
== 5 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 11:43 am
From: Amit Ghosh
On Apr 13, 1:45 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I guess we'll just have to agree to agree. I'm not arguing against
> your points, and apparently you're not arguing mine. We agree Boonen
> overdid it at Roubaix and we don't disagree that some riders didn't
> help in the chase, which is a completely different thing than sitting
> on Cancellara's wheel for 50km and which would've resulting in great
> scorn for Boonen.
>
> Quick quiz: what is perhaps the single greatest example of a 'cagey'
> rider sitting on the wheel of a strong TT rider, then outsprinting
> them for the win? Think Big!
dumbass,
you're probably thinking of boogerd sitting on armstrong at amstel,
but i can think of lots of cases where a rider sat on even at the risk
of getting caught/leeting a break go in order to win. pozzatto did in
the E3 last year.
pros generally don't work just for the hell of it - unlike most
dumabss amateurs. boogerd sat on because he could, he had teammates
chasing, working and then losing because of it is dumb.
boogerd pissed off all the papai-clones, but they don't understand
team tactics (it's not just leadouts and drafting).
== 6 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 4:05 pm
From: Scott
On Apr 13, 12:34 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 13, 12:46 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 12, 11:21 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > You're right, you don't have to be a multi-classics winner, but it
> > does lend a bit more credence to it than say, your opinion or perhaps
> > TK's opinion. You go win L-B-L and maybe we'll pay attention to you.
>
> dumbass,
>
> here's a list of recent LBL winners :
>
> valverde
> di luca
> hamilton
> vandenbroucke
> rebellin
> vinokourov
> camenzind
> berzin
> gianetti
>
> i figure i'm just a couple faxes and oil changes away from a podium
> spot.
Gotta think further back. How about this, you go put in a 14 yr pro
career with a few big classics wins in the pre-radio days, then I'll
pay attention to your comments re: race tactics.
== 7 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 4:09 pm
From: Scott
On Apr 13, 12:43 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 13, 1:45 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I guess we'll just have to agree to agree. I'm not arguing against
> > your points, and apparently you're not arguing mine. We agree Boonen
> > overdid it at Roubaix and we don't disagree that some riders didn't
> > help in the chase, which is a completely different thing than sitting
> > on Cancellara's wheel for 50km and which would've resulting in great
> > scorn for Boonen.
>
> > Quick quiz: what is perhaps the single greatest example of a 'cagey'
> > rider sitting on the wheel of a strong TT rider, then outsprinting
> > them for the win? Think Big!
>
> dumbass,
>
> you're probably thinking of boogerd sitting on armstrong at amstel,
> but i can think of lots of cases where a rider sat on even at the risk
> of getting caught/leeting a break go in order to win. pozzatto did in
> the E3 last year.
>
> pros generally don't work just for the hell of it - unlike most
> dumabss amateurs. boogerd sat on because he could, he had teammates
> chasing, working and then losing because of it is dumb.
>
> boogerd pissed off all the papai-clones, but they don't understand
> team tactics (it's not just leadouts and drafting).
Actually, I was referring to Bruyneel. Anyway, there is a subtle
difference between my example, any of the other examples, and the
Cancellara/Boonen example. In the Cancellara/Boonen case, we're
talking about a race that is traditionally won by the strongest rider
(as it was this year) and there's no great pride in being a wheel
sucker when an entire nation expects you to be that 'strongest'
rider. The other cases were cagey riders who were clearly not up to
the standard of the rider they followed and their only hopes were to
shamelessly wheel suck.
== 8 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 4:44 pm
From: Henry
On Apr 14, 11:09 am, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 13, 12:43 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 13, 1:45 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I guess we'll just have to agree to agree. I'm not arguing against
> > > your points, and apparently you're not arguing mine. We agree Boonen
> > > overdid it at Roubaix and we don't disagree that some riders didn't
> > > help in the chase, which is a completely different thing than sitting
> > > on Cancellara's wheel for 50km and which would've resulting in great
> > > scorn for Boonen.
>
> > > Quick quiz: what is perhaps the single greatest example of a 'cagey'
> > > rider sitting on the wheel of a strong TT rider, then outsprinting
> > > them for the win? Think Big!
>
> > dumbass,
>
> > you're probably thinking of boogerd sitting on armstrong at amstel,
> > but i can think of lots of cases where a rider sat on even at the risk
> > of getting caught/leeting a break go in order to win. pozzatto did in
> > the E3 last year.
>
> > pros generally don't work just for the hell of it - unlike most
> > dumabss amateurs. boogerd sat on because he could, he had teammates
> > chasing, working and then losing because of it is dumb.
>
> > boogerd pissed off all the papai-clones, but they don't understand
> > team tactics (it's not just leadouts and drafting).
>
> Actually, I was referring to Bruyneel. Anyway, there is a subtle
> difference between my example, any of the other examples, and the
> Cancellara/Boonen example. In the Cancellara/Boonen case, we're
> talking about a race that is traditionally won by the strongest rider
> (as it was this year) and there's no great pride in being a wheel
> sucker when an entire nation expects you to be that 'strongest'
> rider. The other cases were cagey riders who were clearly not up to
> the standard of the rider they followed and their only hopes were to
> shamelessly wheel suck.
assuming Boonen did suck Cancellara's wheel, and win, the record books
would show the win
== 9 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 5:02 pm
From: RobertH
On Apr 13, 5:44 pm, Henry <snogfest_hosebe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> assuming Boonen did suck Cancellara's wheel ...
The bizarre assumption is this idea that Cancellara would have just
TT'd all the way to the line with Boonen on his wheel.
== 10 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 6:04 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"
Scott wrote:
> I guess we'll just have to agree to agree.
+ about a million points for that comment.
== 11 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 6:35 pm
From: Amit Ghosh
On Apr 13, 7:09 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, I was referring to Bruyneel. Anyway, there is a subtle
> difference between my example, any of the other examples, and the
> Cancellara/Boonen example. In the Cancellara/Boonen case, we're
> talking about a race that is traditionally won by the strongest rider
dumbass,
i disagee, LBL is a type of race that is won by the strongest rider. a
lot of times the PR winner is the luckiest (last yr the whole break
behind boonen crashed out) and the race favors team tactics (flat,
small groups) - a strong /well-organized team is more important in PR
than in a race like LBL.
that is why lefevere teams won it 7 times in 8 years (1995-2002) and
10 times since 1995.
> (as it was this year) and there's no great pride in being a wheel
> sucker when an entire nation expects you to be that 'strongest'
> rider.
a someone else pointed out. it wasn't as if cancellara would ride 50
kms with boonen on his wheel. if you've raced you been the the
position where you're in a break with someone who won't or can't
contribute you know that you have the choice to either sit up and try
again or try to drop them.
if boonen had maked cancellara more closely he might not have won, but
it would've played out like E3 or RVV, where in order to win
cancellara would have to attack sometime before a final sprint.
== 12 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 8:24 pm
From: Scott
On Apr 13, 7:35 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 13, 7:09 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Actually, I was referring to Bruyneel. Anyway, there is a subtle
> > difference between my example, any of the other examples, and the
> > Cancellara/Boonen example. In the Cancellara/Boonen case, we're
> > talking about a race that is traditionally won by the strongest rider
>
> dumbass,
>
> i disagee, LBL is a type of race that is won by the strongest rider. a
> lot of times the PR winner is the luckiest (last yr the whole break
> behind boonen crashed out) and the race favors team tactics (flat,
> small groups) - a strong /well-organized team is more important in PR
> than in a race like LBL.
>
> that is why lefevere teams won it 7 times in 8 years (1995-2002) and
> 10 times since 1995.
>
> > (as it was this year) and there's no great pride in being a wheel
> > sucker when an entire nation expects you to be that 'strongest'
> > rider.
>
> a someone else pointed out. it wasn't as if cancellara would ride 50
> kms with boonen on his wheel. if you've raced you been the the
> position where you're in a break with someone who won't or can't
> contribute you know that you have the choice to either sit up and try
> again or try to drop them.
>
> if boonen had maked cancellara more closely he might not have won, but
> it would've played out like E3 or RVV, where in order to win
> cancellara would have to attack sometime before a final sprint.
Like I said, if you had 14 years as a Euro pro, I'd pay attention to
your opinions. You don't, and I don't.
== 13 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 9:04 pm
From: Amit Ghosh
On Apr 13, 7:09 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, I was referring to Bruyneel. Anyway, there is a subtle
> difference between my example,
dumbass,
there is also a very non subtle difference:
a stage in a stage race is a different situation than a one day race.
often in a stage race one rider might be looking to gain time the
others might be trying to win the stage.
indurain was looking for time, so it was in his interest to keep
pulling, rather than conserving himself to win the stage.
== 14 of 14 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 9:06 pm
From: Amit Ghosh
On Apr 13, 11:24 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Like I said, if you had 14 years as a Euro pro, I'd pay attention to
> your opinions. You don't, and I don't.
dumbass,
i have the benefit of careful observation - you don't.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cancellara Can't...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/cb78f893164022bd?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 10:27 am
From: ronaldo_jeremiah
On Apr 13, 8:22 am, "Mexican Low Rider Mafia" <mexican-low-rider-
ma...@mexican-low-rider-mafia.com> wrote:
> Cancellara can't do a triple or a quad.
>
> I'll bet you a jillion euros on it.
Well duh. Those are hard to land even for Olympic figure skaters.
-rj
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 3:46 pm
From: Henry
On Apr 14, 1:22 am, "Mexican Low Rider Mafia" <mexican-low-rider-
ma...@mexican-low-rider-mafia.com> wrote:
> Cancellara can't do a triple or a quad.
>
> I'll bet you a jillion euros on it.
I thought it was brazillion
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 6:01 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"
ronaldo_jeremiah wrote:
> On Apr 13, 8:22 am, "Mexican Low Rider Mafia" <mexican-low-rider-
> ma...@mexican-low-rider-mafia.com> wrote:
>> Cancellara can't do a triple or a quad.
>>
>> I'll bet you a jillion euros on it.
>
>
> Well duh. Those are hard to land even for Olympic figure skaters.
Have you SEEN what that boy's been doing lately? I say we give him some
skates and see what he can do!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Can't We All Just Get Along?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/09050017eb68aa3a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 12:11 pm
From: "Steve Freides"
ABS wrote:
> On Apr 11, 4:28 pm, Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> **Snip**
>
>> Retards,
>>
>> Mote, eye, beam, own.
>>
>> Ben
>
> Holy cow....breathtaking, seriously, a masterpiece of understatement,
> I recommend framing it.
It does require a Christian frame of reference - that's a strike against
it, IMHO.
-S-
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 2:47 pm
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd
On Apr 13, 3:11 pm, "Steve Freides" <st...@kbnj.com> wrote:
> ABS wrote:
> > On Apr 11, 4:28 pm, Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > **Snip**
>
> >> Retards,
>
> >> Mote, eye, beam, own.
>
> >> Ben
>
> > Holy cow....breathtaking, seriously, a masterpiece of understatement,
> > I recommend framing it.
>
> It does require a Christian frame of reference - that's a strike against
> it, IMHO.
Christians are easy to frame, they even
carry their own wood.
Ben
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 3:46 pm
From: heather
Fred K. Gringioni wrote:
>
> "heather" <clevis@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:82h7iuFc0fU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Mr. Vebell saw the fighting at Monte Cassino from a soldier's-eye
>> point of view. ''At one point, there was a truce so we could pick up
>> bodies,'' he said. As they gathered their dead, soldiers from both
>> sides began talking to each other, exchanging cigarettes, candy and
>> liquor and even inviting each other to share a meal. As far as the
>> soldiers were concerned ''the war could've ended right there,'' he
>> said. "
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Do you have a link to this story?
>
> As an aside, check out the Aldous Huxley quote on facebook.
>
> thanks,
>
> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
I got the quote from the seller of the photograph (on eBay), but I went
and found it for you, even though that restraining order is still in
effect...
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/11/nyregion/squinting-drawing-and-never-forgetting.html?scp=1&sq=vebell&st=cse
yes, I like your quote, and the Eisenhower one too- I hate war too. (I
know, duh, who doesn't, but still, I do hate it.)
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 11:28 pm
From: "Fred K. Gringioni"
"heather" <clevis@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:82kahbFa9dU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> I got the quote from the seller of the photograph (on eBay), but I went
> and found it for you, even though that restraining order is still in
> effect...
> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/11/nyregion/squinting-drawing-and-never-forgetting.html?scp=1&sq=vebell&st=cse
>
> yes, I like your quote, and the Eisenhower one too- I hate war too. (I
> know, duh, who doesn't, but still, I do hate it.)
Dumbass -
Eisenhower quotes are awesome to use against the Chickenhawks. It's not like
they can claim that he's some raving liberal. His credentials are
impeccable.
I wish I would've known about this one before the start of the Iraq War.
"Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen
to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing." President
Dwight David Eisenhower, former commander in chief of the Allied Forces,
WWII - Presidential news conference, 11 August 1954
thanks,
Fred. presented by Gringioni.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: I don't speak much Dutch but
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/07ad0fc39244f678?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 3:49 pm
From: Henry
On Apr 13, 8:30 pm, Betty Munro <n...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> Henry wrote:
> > just like American is a dialect of English
>
> Flemish is a lot more understandable to Dutch speakers than some
> American dialects are to civilized english speakers.
I found a couple of UK accents an earful - Newcastle and York. Argh!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cancellara can't win Amstel Gold and LBL
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/ac61e5eef9a984e6?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 7:53 pm
From: "Mexican Low Rider Mafia"
It is not possible. Is it?
==============================================================================
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "rec.bicycles.racing"
group.
To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rec.bicycles.racing+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/subscribe?hl=en
To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com
==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en
Posts
