Monday, April 26, 2010

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alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets - 24 new messages in 6 topics - digest

Buzz It
alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets?hl=en

alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Report: Faneca will be cut Monday... - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/6a8bb967bbee0478?hl=en
* Inscrutable Pick - 5 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/a66fffb30f5757d4?hl=en
* Faneca upset, but classy... - 11 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/49bad415f25aae3e?hl=en
* Leon traded to Seattle... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/228e265ca4382bd2?hl=en
* Gholston contract "restructured" - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/6006e3555b80fc7c?hl=en
* Our UFAs as of now... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/5a27770e33085461?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Report: Faneca will be cut Monday...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/6a8bb967bbee0478?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 4:18 pm
From: Harlan Lachman


In article <q33at5doea6aiq2hor5uen1sv6i8a5jl9c@4ax.com>,
buRford <buRford@buR.ford.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 15:17:56 -0400, Harlan Lachman <harlan@eeivt.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <u1r6t55n5rsv7kk1heurbbv77s4i85kfgd@4ax.com>,
> > graybeard <graybeard@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:57:35 -0400 MZ <mark@nospam.void> wrote:
> >>
> >> >If they don't, and
> >> >they're pinning all their hopes on Ducasse, it's a very risky move.
> >>
> >> Especially since Dusasse's weakest skill is supposed to be, guess what?
> >> PASS BLOCKING!
> >
> >As a OT out in space. Some posit he will do fine inside at G.
> >
> >Folks should be worried. OTOH, Rex and Callahan have done pretty well so
> >far for us.
> >
> >At least let's wait for the first four games before screaming the sky is
> >falling.
> >
> >Given our schedule, we will likely know by then if we be the cream,
> >players, or putzes.
> >
>
> We won't have Holmes, and it may take some time for the players to get on the
> same page...
> so, the first 4 games may not be a good barometer.

It is the only one we get.

If we lose division games...

h


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 5:21 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"Harlan Lachman" <harlan@eeivt.com> wrote in message
news:harlan-B1721F.19170626042010@news60.forteinc.com...
> In article <-qadnU8pfaSBL0jWnZ2dnUVZ_uKdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> Johnctx <jc@spamtx.net> wrote:
>
>> Harlan Lachman wrote:
>> > In article <u1r6t55n5rsv7kk1heurbbv77s4i85kfgd@4ax.com>,
>> > graybeard <graybeard@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:57:35 -0400 MZ <mark@nospam.void> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> If they don't, and
>> >>> they're pinning all their hopes on Ducasse, it's a very risky move.
>> >> Especially since Dusasse's weakest skill is supposed to be, guess
>> >> what?
>> >> PASS BLOCKING!
>> >
>> > As a OT out in space. Some posit he will do fine inside at G.
>> >
>> > Folks should be worried. OTOH, Rex and Callahan have done pretty well
>> > so
>> > far for us.
>> >
>> > At least let's wait for the first four games before screaming the sky
>> > is
>> > falling.
>> >
>> > Given our schedule, we will likely know by then if we be the cream,
>> > players, or putzes.
>> >
>> > h
>>
>> Harlan, how many players form 1AA have made the jump to start in the NFL
>> their 1st year? How many at OL?
>>
>> It is a huge risk.
>
> Is that a rhetorical question. I have no idea.
>
> I assume most 2nd round guard picks play fairly soon.
>
> h

My guess is most second round guard picks get cut after being backups for a
while. How many total guards are in the League?


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 7:17 pm
From: buRford


On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 18:02:26 -0400, "papa.carl44" <papadotcarl@nospamverizon.net> wrote:

>
>"buRford" <buRford@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
>news:onabt5d68kvvnm4c66ul2140hrvki30qt6@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 04:10:39 -0400, "papa.carl44"
>> <papadotcarl@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>news:76c1f5b3-4780-4551-ab60-6ec8ab86a33e@g30g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>>>On Apr 25, 2:22 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>> "Glenn Greenstein" <lexa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:dd4ccf8d-9a6a-436d-9ca1-27ab03524650@m38g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Apr 25, 12:08 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > On Apr 25, 10:09 am, Glenn Greenstein <lexa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > > On Apr 25, 9:09 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > > > On Apr 24, 11:29 pm, Glenn Greenstein <lexa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > > > > On Apr 24, 2:38 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > On Apr 24, 2:00 pm, "papa.carl44"
>>>> > > > > > <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
>>>> > > > > > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > > "buRford" <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > >news:h396t557d4snoee3eca9j0k4mj9qvu17es@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > > > On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 05:10:17 -0700 (PDT), Glenn Greenstein
>>>> > > > > > > > <lexa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > > >>On Apr 24, 7:34 am, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>>>> > > > > > > >>> For whatever it's worth... an anonymous source quoted...
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > > >>> Jets to cut Pro Bowl guard Alan Faneca
>>>> > > > > > > >>> By Manish Mehta/The Star-Ledger
>>>> > > > > > > >>> April 23, 2010, 11:47PM
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > > >>> The Jets will cut nine-time Pro Bowl left guard Alan
>>>> > > > > > > >>> Faneca,
>>>> > > > > > > >>> a person
>>>> > > > > > > >>> familiar with the
>>>> > > > > > > >>> situation said late tonight. The person requested
>>>> > > > > > > >>> anonymity
>>>> > > > > > > >>> because he
>>>> > > > > > > >>> is not authorized
>>>> > > > > > > >>> to speak on the Jets' or Faneca's behalf.
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > > >>> The Jets will likely make a formal announcement Monday,
>>>> > > > > > > >>> according to the
>>>> > > > > > > >>> person.
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > > >>> Faneca, 33, was reported to be on the trading block for
>>>> > > > > > > >>> weeks, but the
>>>> > > > > > > >>> Jets couldn't find
>>>> > > > > > > >>> any takers. He was scheduled to make $7.5 million this
>>>> > > > > > > >>> season, of which
>>>> > > > > > > >>> $5.25 million is
>>>> > > > > > > >>> guaranteed.
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > > >>> **********
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > > >>> If this is true, again, this goes into headscratcher
>>>> > > > > > > >>> territory.
>>>> > > > > > > >>> If we cut him, we're still paying him $5.25 million. We
>>>> > > > > > > >>> have
>>>> > > > > > > >>> nobody,
>>>> > > > > > > >>> really, to step up &
>>>> > > > > > > >>> into his position. Vlad is supposedly raw, and needs
>>>> > > > > > > >>> time.
>>>> > > > > > > >>> And, in this no-cap year, this is when Woody goes
>>>> > > > > > > >>> frugal?
>>>> > > > > > > >>> I
>>>> > > > > > > >>> understand
>>>> > > > > > > >>> this saves $2,25
>>>> > > > > > > >>> million, and that Faneca is far from his old self, but
>>>> > > > > > > >>> it's
>>>> > > > > > > >>> just a
>>>> > > > > > > >>> strange decision with
>>>> > > > > > > >>> Sanchez still a question mark.
>>>> > > > > > > >>> Faneca obviously won't renegotiate, he knows a lot of
>>>> > > > > > > >>> teams
>>>> > > > > > > >>> will show
>>>> > > > > > > >>> interest.
>>>> > > > > > > >>> This reminds me of the Kendall situation, except we're a
>>>> > > > > > > >>> better team
>>>> > > > > > > >>> now, and it could
>>>> > > > > > > >>> have disastrous results.
>>>> > > > > > > >>> Slauson? Turner? Vlad?
>>>> > > > > > > >>> Hopefully, there's a better plan B...
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > > >>Unless they plan on picking up someone which is going to
>>>> > > > > > > >>be
>>>> > > > > > > >>difficult
>>>> > > > > > > >>due to the top 8 rule, I can't figure this out.
>>>> > > > > > > >>Michael will be out celebrating all week after it happens.
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > > > Lots of curious moves today, Glenn.
>>>> > > > > > > > Faneca gone... Leon gone... only O picks... no added
>>>> > > > > > > > depth,
>>>> > > > > > > > just reworking
>>>> > > > > > > > our backfield,
>>>> > > > > > > > and weakening our OL.
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > > I was beginning to think they had a clue, that the tide had
>>>> > > > > > > changed, that
>>>> > > > > > > the Jets had become a smart team that really did want to
>>>> > > > > > > build
>>>> > > > > > > and win...now
>>>> > > > > > > I'm back to SOJisms.....not very smart IMHO. I predict their
>>>> > > > > > > somewhat over
>>>> > > > > > > the hill LT gets hurt,
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > The LT is Brick. He's a spring chicken. Woody at RT is getting
>>>> > > > > > on
>>>> > > > > > in years, but shows no signs of diminishing skills nor is he
>>>> > > > > > injury
>>>> > > > > > prone.
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > >and Greene will also be often injured
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > I fucking hope not. That would prove to be a real problem.
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > >with neither of
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > > them every solid and no plan B to go to...and all of that
>>>> > > > > > > with
>>>> > > > > > > an O line
>>>> > > > > > > that does not know how to come together entirely. That is
>>>> > > > > > > the
>>>> > > > > > > one place
>>>> > > > > > > where change will wreak havoc. Who replaces Faneca? And
>>>> > > > > > > Michael
>>>> > > > > > > I don't
>>>> > > > > > > want to hear your turnstyle theory,
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > You mean "EXPENSIVE TURNSTYLE".
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > >the facts don't indicate that.
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > To my eyes they shure as hell did.
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > >He was a
>>>> > > > > > > huge force in moving the ball beyond the LOS on all the
>>>> > > > > > > running
>>>> > > > > > > they did and
>>>> > > > > > > since Sanchez should be more effective in a play action type
>>>> > > > > > > offense, set up
>>>> > > > > > > pass blocking should not be the number one thing to judge.
>>>> > > > > > > They
>>>> > > > > > > will rue
>>>> > > > > > > the day the got rid of TJ, he was able to play hurt..none of
>>>> > > > > > > the
>>>> > > > > > > backs they
>>>> > > > > > > have now can or will do that. OK, I'm old, and way too
>>>> > > > > > > conditioned to Jets
>>>> > > > > > > football, I liked coaching in high school where we could
>>>> > > > > > > walk
>>>> > > > > > > over to the
>>>> > > > > > > Freshman field and take a look at what we would be getting,
>>>> > > > > > > or
>>>> > > > > > > in a scrimage
>>>> > > > > > > some night see a JV kid light the star back up with a
>>>> > > > > > > tackle...those were
>>>> > > > > > > the moments I would smile and say, "I just found my pass
>>>> > > > > > > rusher,
>>>> > > > > > > or my
>>>> > > > > > > 'situational' line backer"....but all this not knowing who
>>>> > > > > > > the
>>>> > > > > > > Hell is going
>>>> > > > > > > to fill a job drives me nuts.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> > > > > Michael, do you realize how uninformed you sound every time you
>>>> > > > > bring
>>>> > > > > up the word expensive? IT IS AN UNCAPPED YEAR AND ALL WE ARE
>>>> > > > > SAVING
>>>> > > > > IS
>>>> > > > > 2 MILL. THE JETS ARE STILL ON THE HOOK FOR 5 MILL. WHERE THE
>>>> > > > > FUCK
>>>> > > > > IS
>>>> > > > > THE SAVING?- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> > > > go talk to mark... he'll tell you all about the faneca and leon
>>>> > > > moves
>>>> > > > being nothing but penny pinching on the part of the jets. you
>>>> > > > sound
>>>> > > > uninformed to me as it appears you have no idea what faneca cost
>>>> > > > the
>>>> > > > jets. do you know what the average lg gets paid ?
>>>>
>>>> > > Again Michael, show the saving she Jets get by cutting him
>>>> > > NOW!!!!!!!!! He could have been a back up this season. They could
>>>> > > have
>>>> > > used him as insurance for an injury. What is the point other than
>>>> > > bad
>>>> > > management.All you speak about is how expensive he is. If I go out
>>>> > > and
>>>> > > buy a pair of Feragamo shoes and then I realize I could have bought
>>>> > > a
>>>> > > pair of generic looking shoes for a 2/3's less, where is the savings
>>>> > > of dumping the other shoes in the trash (or cutting them in this
>>>> > > case)
>>>> > > and getting the others?- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> > > - Show quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> > Glenn... The Jets save two million dollars by kissing off Faneca. As
>>>> > far as I know, they are stuck with 5 million. It would have been
>>>> > seven million if they kept him. Unless I am mistaken, that is the
>>>> > money they save. Two million. As far as being expensive. Please go
>>>> > back and read some of my rants about the 32 million dollar 30 year old
>>>> > guard when they first picked him up under Mangini. I thought he was a
>>>> > way over priced alternative then and now. And I was correct as far as
>>>> > him being a player living off his reputation and not his current skill
>>>> > and value. I give him major credit and props for being a guy that
>>>> > Brick and Mangold felt they had to play up to. The whole line learned
>>>> > from him. It will continue to pepetuate. Now, back to the money...
>>>> > Not only do they save two million, they also get rid of a disasterous
>>>> > pass blocker and a guy that cant move the pile. As far as the locker
>>>> > room feel good stuff. People are people. Where ever you go you can
>>>> > find good people and good relationships to be had. Relationships
>>>> > change and life goes on. New friends and leaders are made. May be
>>>> > the Bengals will never gian another yard on the ground because Anthony
>>>> > Munoz moved on ???
>>>>
>>>> Oh, and my point is as Burf pointed out as well, we are paying him 5
>>>> mill to play on another team. Great way to get your monies worth.
>>>>
>>>> Ummmmm, and they took the number one running attack in the league and
>>>> literally got rid of it...MOST of the parts are missing now, all they
>>>> need
>>>> is an injury to any of the returning O linemen and they will have an
>>>> entirely new group to work with. Backs learn to work with linemen and
>>>> linemen work with other linemen....they have created a whole new group
>>>> of
>>>> guys to deal with and will not have any of the chemistry that made it
>>>> work
>>>> last year....IF I'm wrong...I'll fess up to it, but I don't see them
>>>> having
>>>> the same game this year now, not right off the mark in the early part of
>>>> the
>>>> season for sure.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>>jeez.... they still have mangold, moore, brick, woody, green,
>>>richardson. they got rid of leon, who was not playing down the
>>>stretch and they got rid of jones... green was filling in well for
>>>jones. the offense also has edwards, keller, cotch and now santonio
>>>and tomlinson out of the backfield. the jets are fracking loaded with
>>>weapons. such receiving weapons will help loosten things up for the
>>>ball carriers. with the manpower the jets have, only total stupidity
>>>on the part of schott could manage anything less than top yardage
>>>production.
>>>
>>>Greene does not count...he only played sparingly at the end of the
>>>season...and THEN he got hurt and Jones had to come back. The team that
>>>created the top running game is gone...no saying who they have is going to
>>>change that. If they lose ONE, only ONE O lineman they have a new
>>>group......what got them to where they went had nothing to do with
>>>Sanchez..it was mostly the running game, and that is gone. Maybe the new
>>>guys will be OK...but the reality is nobody knows now.
>>>
>>
>> Exactly.
>> Where there weren't questions, now there are... and some of the questions
>> we had, haven't
>> been addressed yet. So, while I think we've improved, who knows?
>
>Me thinks what this really means is the CS knew just how lucky they were.
>That the success of the team last year was in many ways pure luck and they
>are acknowleding that with what they are doing with the Offense now. I have
>a lot of confidence in what they will do with Defense...wish I had that
>concerning the offense. I always felt that one of the most important things
>a coach could do was to use the talent available in the most productive
>way...and utilize ALL of it. At the levels I coached at that meant taking
>the "not quite a starter" D back and putting him in for the Sam LB in a
>definite passing situation. Getting that position off the line, our out of
>the box and putting in a guy who could cover gave the kid a chance to play
>and really helped what we did. But...you needed the right kid to do that
>and it took work to find the right kid. When you have some great backs in
>situational settings..it is up to coaches to create those situations by
>creating sets and using multiple back sets etc. To me, IMHO, it does
>absolutely NOTHING to stick a back in to see if he alone can make something
>happen....if his talents are different than the regular. The defense knows
>what is up....and guess what, they are ready for it. But, when you can
>create sets where it is not obvious what is going to happen...a whole new
>scenario is created. I always felt Leon should have been in the slot, in
>motion and TJ in at the same time...I guess it would have worked better if
>TJ could catch...so now they have some guys who CAN catch...lets see if
>Schott does something with what he has.
>

Yeah, it's kinda sad that as good as Leon was here, his talents were significantly
underutilized, & misused.
Like every offseason, I reset my BS clock, and everyone starts afresh... even Schott.
Hopefully, he'll surprise... la-di-da...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Inscrutable Pick
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/a66fffb30f5757d4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 4:20 pm
From: MZ


Tutor wrote:
> On Apr 26, 3:47 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>> Tutor wrote:
>>> On Apr 26, 11:55 am, Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
>>>> Tutor wrote:
>>>>> On Apr 26, 9:26 am, Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
>>>>>> buRford wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 13:26:55 -0400, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Tutor wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 11:43 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> buRford wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 18:19:34 -0400, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:43:30 -0400 Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trading up sounds like Mike. Great. We are getting someone he really
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks can help our team.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe McNight? An overrated HS player who failed to produce with all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pro talent around him at USC? A guy who duplicates the skill sets of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guys we already had on the roster (ability to KR, ability to catch
>>>>>>>>>>>>> passes out of backfield, potential take it to the house player).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If we don't trade Leon or McNight for someone we really need at S or DE,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> then this makes as much sense as cutting Faneca in an uncapped year
>>>>>>>>>>>>> without an obvious replacement familiar with the system waiting to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> become an upgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had liked the first two picks. This move and rumored cutting really
>>>>>>>>>>>>> raise serious questions like did Tanny settle for who we got because
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Woody lost money to Madoff, Tanny just wants to stick it to Keel, or has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lost his mind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> h
>>>>>>>>>>>> Harlan, ever since they offered Feeley a contract with a pay cut, I have
>>>>>>>>>>>> been thinking that, despite the uncapped year, Woody has given
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tannenbaum a personnel budget with a fixed ceiling. With the seat
>>>>>>>>>>>> licenses not selling as well as he hoped, maybe Woody is having a little
>>>>>>>>>>>> cash problem.
>>>>>>>>>>> I think it has more to do with what will be coming up, in contractland... to keep some of
>>>>>>>>>>> the younguns.
>>>>>>>>>>> Even Tanny eluded to it, as far as their thinking on trading Leon.
>>>>>>>>>> All these young'ns that everybody's talking about... I don't know, I'd
>>>>>>>>>> rather have Leon than most of those guys. Remind me why they were so
>>>>>>>>>> reluctant to extend him again. I don't buy that it's his injury. It
>>>>>>>>>> might be, but let's see what kind of contract Seattle gives him. That
>>>>>>>>>> will give us our answer.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>>>>> Revis. David Harris. Cromartie. Nick Mangold. D'Brickashaw
>>>>>>>>> Ferguson. Santonio Holmes or Braylon Edwards (prob not both),
>>>>>>>>> Cotchery. All of these are far more important than Leon.
>>>>>>>> And only Mangold is due to be a UFA. And I agree, Mangold is more
>>>>>>>> important than Leon. Holmes, Edwards, and Cromartie are not. Leon
>>>>>>>> would have been the 2nd most important free agent for them to deal with
>>>>>>>> in '11.
>>>>>>> Not sure about Harris or Brick , but I know Revis' contract needs to be addressed.
>>>>>>> It has provisions that will be coming due, that will kill the Jets.
>>>>>> Jumping in late here but the one thing about McKnight is that he is very
>>>>>> similar to Leon. HS star that underperformed although Mcknight did in 3
>>>>>> years what it took Leon to do in 4. Maybe there is hope.
>>>>>> Still hate the trade.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>> are you that sure that Leon was going to return to his former
>>>>> explosive self? Would he still have those precision cuts and speed?
>>>>> I'll miss him. But I understand.
>>>> He broke his leg it wasn't his ACL. We know what he can do. No one
>>>> knows how McKnight does in the NFL.- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> Correction: We all know what he once could do. Not what he "can"
>>> do. a compound fracture with the bone protruding from the leg,and in
>>> Leon's case broken in more than one place, is a tough recovery. Any
>>> deviation from his ability to cut will dimish Leon's explosiveness.
>>> This injury could certainly have an adverse affect on that. No...
>>> it's not an ACL but it was still a brutal injury. Washington can
>>> barely run a straight line right now. He still can't cut. That will
>>> take time and only time will tell how detrimental this was to what
>>> made him special.
>> Are you sure? It was just a week ago that Tanny said he'd be ready for
>> the start of the season. I'm completely confused here. Usually it's
>> really hard to trade injured players. They don't pass physicals. I
>> can't remember the last time a player with a questionable injury was
>> traded. I really find it unlikely that he won't come back from this
>> injury and remain effective.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> After the trade, Tanny said in an interview that he didn't think Leon
> would be able to start the season. But he said that almost in passing
> while discussing that the Jets wouldn't be able to give him his pay
> day at the end of the season. Hey, it has been just over 5 months
> since the surgery. Any doctors in the houose? I have no idea whether
> the fact that Leopn can only run straight ahead and is not able to or
> not permitted to cut at this point puts him on schedule or behind it.
> Common sense says that he would not be up to speed in 2010 anyway and
> that if (a big if) his explosiveness returns, that would be in 2011.
> Considering that the Jets think they would not be able to pay him in
> 2011, it was best to take what they could get for a guy who isn't
> remotely close to passing a physical. Carroll taking a humongous risk
> with Leon. I see he also traded with the Titans for Lendale White.

Tut, I just don't get your point of view. :)

Players sustain bad injuries all the time. They're practically always
ready to play the next season. Football careers are short. They don't
take a whole year to get back into things. Things just don't move that
slowly. It's possible that you're right and that they'd have to
redshirt him for next year, but damn, I can't remember the last time
that happened. Especially to a young guy.

Honestly, I think the injury is practically a non-factor. I think there
are three reasons that have been proposed that might explain their thinking:
1) They really really liked McKnight and are willing to take a risk that
he pans out in the NFL.
2) They think Leon might be PUP and, for whatever reason, they're not
willing to wait until week 7 for him.
3) They hate his agent and are unwilling to deal with him and holdouts
and whatever else.

I think (1) is a valid reason. Risky, but valid. I think (2) is a
mistake for a team that has postseason hopes. And I think (3) would be
idiotic and impulsive, and characteristic of bad GMing. Although maybe
not unprecedented when you consider how they handled Kendall, Moore,
Baker, and Coles.


== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 4:30 pm
From: Harlan Lachman


In article
<a39291e6-43d2-45e8-84b9-62c52e2395fe@t15g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>,
Tutor <dcat4434@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Apr 26, 11:55 am, Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
> > Tutor wrote:
> > > On Apr 26, 9:26 am, Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
> > >> buRford wrote:
> > >>> On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 13:26:55 -0400, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
> > >>>> Tutor wrote:
> > >>>>> On Apr 24, 11:43 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
> > >>>>>> buRford wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 18:19:34 -0400, graybeard
> > >>>>>>> <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:43:30 -0400 Harlan Lachman
> > >>>>>>>> <har...@eeivt.com>
> > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> Trading up sounds like Mike. Great. We are getting someone he
> > >>>>>>>>> really
> > >>>>>>>>> thinks can help our team.
> > >>>>>>>>> Joe McNight? An overrated HS player who failed to produce with
> > >>>>>>>>> all the
> > >>>>>>>>> pro talent around him at USC? A guy who duplicates the skill sets
> > >>>>>>>>> of
> > >>>>>>>>> guys we already had on the roster (ability to KR, ability to
> > >>>>>>>>> catch
> > >>>>>>>>> passes out of backfield, potential take it to the house player).
> > >>>>>>>>> If we don't trade Leon or McNight for someone we really need at S
> > >>>>>>>>> or DE,
> > >>>>>>>>> then this makes as much sense as cutting Faneca in an uncapped
> > >>>>>>>>> year
> > >>>>>>>>> without an obvious replacement familiar with the system waiting
> > >>>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>> become an upgrade.
> > >>>>>>>>> I had liked the first two picks. This move and rumored cutting
> > >>>>>>>>> really
> > >>>>>>>>> raise serious questions like did Tanny settle for who we got
> > >>>>>>>>> because
> > >>>>>>>>> Woody lost money to Madoff, Tanny just wants to stick it to Keel,
> > >>>>>>>>> or has
> > >>>>>>>>> lost his mind.
> > >>>>>>>>> h
> > >>>>>>>> Harlan, ever since they offered Feeley a contract with a pay cut,
> > >>>>>>>> I have
> > >>>>>>>> been thinking that, despite the uncapped year, Woody has given
> > >>>>>>>> Tannenbaum a personnel budget with a fixed ceiling. With the seat
> > >>>>>>>> licenses not selling as well as he hoped, maybe Woody is having a
> > >>>>>>>> little
> > >>>>>>>> cash problem.
> > >>>>>>> I think it has more to do with what will be coming up, in
> > >>>>>>> contractland... to keep some of
> > >>>>>>> the younguns.
> > >>>>>>> Even Tanny eluded to it, as far as their thinking on trading Leon.
> > >>>>>> All these young'ns that everybody's talking about...   I don't know,
> > >>>>>> I'd
> > >>>>>> rather have Leon than most of those guys.  Remind me why they were
> > >>>>>> so
> > >>>>>> reluctant to extend him again.  I don't buy that it's his injury.
> > >>>>>>  It
> > >>>>>> might be, but let's see what kind of contract Seattle gives him.
> > >>>>>>  That
> > >>>>>> will give us our answer.- Hide quoted text -
> > >>>>>> - Show quoted text -
> > >>>>> Revis.  David Harris.  Cromartie.  Nick Mangold.  D'Brickashaw
> > >>>>> Ferguson.  Santonio Holmes or Braylon Edwards (prob not both),
> > >>>>> Cotchery.  All of these are far more important than Leon.
> > >>>> And only Mangold is due to be a UFA.  And I agree, Mangold is more
> > >>>> important than Leon.  Holmes, Edwards, and Cromartie are not.  Leon
> > >>>> would have been the 2nd most important free agent for them to deal
> > >>>> with
> > >>>> in '11.
> > >>> Not sure about Harris or Brick , but I know Revis' contract needs to be
> > >>> addressed.
> > >>> It has provisions that will be coming due, that will kill the Jets.
> > >> Jumping in late here but the one thing about McKnight is that he is very
> > >> similar to Leon.  HS star that underperformed although Mcknight did in 3
> > >> years what it took Leon to do in 4. Maybe there is hope.
> >
> > >> Still hate the trade.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > >> - Show quoted text -
> >
> > > are you that sure that Leon was going to return to his former
> > > explosive self?  Would he still have those precision cuts and speed?
> > > I'll miss him.  But I understand.
> >
> > He broke his leg it wasn't his ACL.  We know what he can do.  No one
> > knows how McKnight does in the NFL.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Correction: We all know what he once could do. Not what he "can"
> do. a compound fracture with the bone protruding from the leg,and in
> Leon's case broken in more than one place, is a tough recovery. Any
> deviation from his ability to cut will dimish Leon's explosiveness.
> This injury could certainly have an adverse affect on that. No...
> it's not an ACL but it was still a brutal injury. Washington can
> barely run a straight line right now. He still can't cut. That will
> take time and only time will tell how detrimental this was to what
> made him special.

Actually, my son just had an ACL done Friday. The ACL is not the
problem. It is the damage that usually accompanies it. Ben's doc assures
him and us that because there was no meniscus, bone or other damage,
with the rehab, at his age and shape there will be no limitations.

h


== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 4:32 pm
From: Harlan Lachman


In article <BLWdneJHiu-ZB0nWnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
MZ <mark@nospam.void> wrote:

> Harlan Lachman wrote:
> > In article <8tqdnaVvmZPQJ07WnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> > MZ <mark@nospam.void> wrote:
> >
> >> buRford wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 18:19:34 -0400, graybeard <graybeard@invalid.invalid>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:43:30 -0400 Harlan Lachman <harlan@eeivt.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Trading up sounds like Mike. Great. We are getting someone he really
> >>>>> thinks can help our team.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Joe McNight? An overrated HS player who failed to produce with all the
> >>>>> pro talent around him at USC? A guy who duplicates the skill sets of
> >>>>> guys we already had on the roster (ability to KR, ability to catch
> >>>>> passes out of backfield, potential take it to the house player).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If we don't trade Leon or McNight for someone we really need at S or
> >>>>> DE,
> >>>>> then this makes as much sense as cutting Faneca in an uncapped year
> >>>>> without an obvious replacement familiar with the system waiting to
> >>>>> become an upgrade.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I had liked the first two picks. This move and rumored cutting really
> >>>>> raise serious questions like did Tanny settle for who we got because
> >>>>> Woody lost money to Madoff, Tanny just wants to stick it to Keel, or
> >>>>> has
> >>>>> lost his mind.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> h
> >>>> Harlan, ever since they offered Feeley a contract with a pay cut, I have
> >>>> been thinking that, despite the uncapped year, Woody has given
> >>>> Tannenbaum a personnel budget with a fixed ceiling. With the seat
> >>>> licenses not selling as well as he hoped, maybe Woody is having a little
> >>>> cash problem.
> >>> I think it has more to do with what will be coming up, in contractland...
> >>> to keep some of
> >>> the younguns.
> >>> Even Tanny eluded to it, as far as their thinking on trading Leon.
> >> All these young'ns that everybody's talking about... I don't know, I'd
> >> rather have Leon than most of those guys. Remind me why they were so
> >> reluctant to extend him again. I don't buy that it's his injury. It
> >> might be, but let's see what kind of contract Seattle gives him. That
> >> will give us our answer.
> >
> > No it won't. Seattle having won so many games last year may lack the
> > talent and salaries requiring them to husband their dollars; their
> > decision may say as much as about their roster as about Leon.
> >
> > Leon held out, stayed away from OTAs, and may not be healthy at the
> > start of the season. More importantly, he made it clear he wanted big
> > bucks and his wife made clear what she thought about the Jets.
> >
> > Most importantly, Seattle only gets Leon with a one year deal. They may
> > not even sign him.
> >
> > harlan
>
> Harlan, what Leon wanted was largely irrelevant. He was under contract.
> He would have played this year if he was healthy. If he wasn't
> healthy enough to play this year, Seattle wouldn't have traded for him.
>
> The question I posed was why everybody was opposed to extending Leon.
> If there truly were questions surrounding his injury, then they could
> have waited until next offseason to make another offer.

I think the FO decided getting the best FB in the draft was more
valuable to this team than keeping Leon for one year and listening to
his wife tweets, having him hold out again, etc.

h


== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 7:36 pm
From: buRford


On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 15:36:25 -0700 (PDT), Tutor <dcat4434@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Apr 26, 3:47 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>> Tutor wrote:
>> > On Apr 26, 11:55 am, Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
>> >> Tutor wrote:
>> >>> On Apr 26, 9:26 am, Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
>> >>>> buRford wrote:
>> >>>>> On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 13:26:55 -0400, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>> >>>>>> Tutor wrote:
>> >>>>>>> On Apr 24, 11:43 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> buRford wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 18:19:34 -0400, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:43:30 -0400 Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com>
>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Trading up sounds like Mike. Great. We are getting someone he really
>> >>>>>>>>>>> thinks can help our team.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Joe McNight? An overrated HS player who failed to produce with all the
>> >>>>>>>>>>> pro talent around him at USC? A guy who duplicates the skill sets of
>> >>>>>>>>>>> guys we already had on the roster (ability to KR, ability to catch
>> >>>>>>>>>>> passes out of backfield, potential take it to the house player).
>> >>>>>>>>>>> If we don't trade Leon or McNight for someone we really need at S or DE,
>> >>>>>>>>>>> then this makes as much sense as cutting Faneca in an uncapped year
>> >>>>>>>>>>> without an obvious replacement familiar with the system waiting to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> become an upgrade.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> I had liked the first two picks. This move and rumored cutting really
>> >>>>>>>>>>> raise serious questions like did Tanny settle for who we got because
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Woody lost money to Madoff, Tanny just wants to stick it to Keel, or has
>> >>>>>>>>>>> lost his mind.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> h
>> >>>>>>>>>> Harlan, ever since they offered Feeley a contract with a pay cut, I have
>> >>>>>>>>>> been thinking that, despite the uncapped year, Woody has given
>> >>>>>>>>>> Tannenbaum a personnel budget with a fixed ceiling. With the seat
>> >>>>>>>>>> licenses not selling as well as he hoped, maybe Woody is having a little
>> >>>>>>>>>> cash problem.
>> >>>>>>>>> I think it has more to do with what will be coming up, in contractland... to keep some of
>> >>>>>>>>> the younguns.
>> >>>>>>>>> Even Tanny eluded to it, as far as their thinking on trading Leon.
>> >>>>>>>> All these young'ns that everybody's talking about...   I don't know, I'd
>> >>>>>>>> rather have Leon than most of those guys.  Remind me why they were so
>> >>>>>>>> reluctant to extend him again.  I don't buy that it's his injury.  It
>> >>>>>>>> might be, but let's see what kind of contract Seattle gives him.  That
>> >>>>>>>> will give us our answer.- Hide quoted text -
>> >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>> >>>>>>> Revis.  David Harris.  Cromartie.  Nick Mangold.  D'Brickashaw
>> >>>>>>> Ferguson.  Santonio Holmes or Braylon Edwards (prob not both),
>> >>>>>>> Cotchery.  All of these are far more important than Leon.
>> >>>>>> And only Mangold is due to be a UFA.  And I agree, Mangold is more
>> >>>>>> important than Leon.  Holmes, Edwards, and Cromartie are not.  Leon
>> >>>>>> would have been the 2nd most important free agent for them to deal with
>> >>>>>> in '11.
>> >>>>> Not sure about Harris or Brick , but I know Revis' contract needs to be addressed.
>> >>>>> It has provisions that will be coming due, that will kill the Jets.
>> >>>> Jumping in late here but the one thing about McKnight is that he is very
>> >>>> similar to Leon.  HS star that underperformed although Mcknight did in 3
>> >>>> years what it took Leon to do in 4. Maybe there is hope.
>> >>>> Still hate the trade.- Hide quoted text -
>> >>>> - Show quoted text -
>> >>> are you that sure that Leon was going to return to his former
>> >>> explosive self?  Would he still have those precision cuts and speed?
>> >>> I'll miss him.  But I understand.
>> >> He broke his leg it wasn't his ACL.  We know what he can do.  No one
>> >> knows how McKnight does in the NFL.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > Correction:  We all know what he once could do.  Not what he "can"
>> > do.  a compound fracture with the bone protruding from the leg,and in
>> > Leon's case broken in more than one place, is a tough recovery.  Any
>> > deviation from his ability to cut will dimish Leon's explosiveness.
>> > This injury could certainly have an adverse affect on that.  No...
>> > it's not an ACL but it was still a brutal injury.  Washington can
>> > barely run a straight line right now.  He still can't cut.  That will
>> > take time and only time will tell how detrimental this was to what
>> > made him special.
>>
>> Are you sure?  It was just a week ago that Tanny said he'd be ready for
>> the start of the season.  I'm completely confused here.  Usually it's
>> really hard to trade injured players.  They don't pass physicals.  I
>> can't remember the last time a player with a questionable injury was
>> traded.  I really find it unlikely that he won't come back from this
>> injury and remain effective.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>After the trade, Tanny said in an interview that he didn't think Leon
>would be able to start the season. But he said that almost in passing
>while discussing that the Jets wouldn't be able to give him his pay
>day at the end of the season. Hey, it has been just over 5 months
>since the surgery. Any doctors in the houose? I have no idea whether
>the fact that Leopn can only run straight ahead and is not able to or
>not permitted to cut at this point puts him on schedule or behind it.
>Common sense says that he would not be up to speed in 2010 anyway and
>that if (a big if) his explosiveness returns, that would be in 2011.
>Considering that the Jets think they would not be able to pay him in
>2011, it was best to take what they could get for a guy who isn't
>remotely close to passing a physical. Carroll taking a humongous risk
>with Leon. I see he also traded with the Titans for Lendale White.

What's the humongous risk that Carroll's taking, on Leon... a 5th round pick?
To me, the Jets took the bigger risk trading a known, for a frail-looking unknown... and
not even getting a conditional pick, if Leon returns to form... & including a 7th round
pick, to boot.
They could've kept him, and if he signed elsewhere next season, they'd get a compensatory
pick, almost assuredly better than a #5.


== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 7:42 pm
From: buRford


On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 19:20:15 -0400, MZ <mark@nospam.void> wrote:

>Tutor wrote:
>> On Apr 26, 3:47 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>>> Tutor wrote:
>>>> On Apr 26, 11:55 am, Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
>>>>> Tutor wrote:
>>>>>> On Apr 26, 9:26 am, Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> buRford wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 13:26:55 -0400, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Tutor wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 11:43 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> buRford wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 18:19:34 -0400, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:43:30 -0400 Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trading up sounds like Mike. Great. We are getting someone he really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks can help our team.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe McNight? An overrated HS player who failed to produce with all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pro talent around him at USC? A guy who duplicates the skill sets of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guys we already had on the roster (ability to KR, ability to catch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passes out of backfield, potential take it to the house player).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If we don't trade Leon or McNight for someone we really need at S or DE,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then this makes as much sense as cutting Faneca in an uncapped year
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without an obvious replacement familiar with the system waiting to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become an upgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had liked the first two picks. This move and rumored cutting really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raise serious questions like did Tanny settle for who we got because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Woody lost money to Madoff, Tanny just wants to stick it to Keel, or has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lost his mind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> h
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harlan, ever since they offered Feeley a contract with a pay cut, I have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> been thinking that, despite the uncapped year, Woody has given
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tannenbaum a personnel budget with a fixed ceiling. With the seat
>>>>>>>>>>>>> licenses not selling as well as he hoped, maybe Woody is having a little
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cash problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it has more to do with what will be coming up, in contractland... to keep some of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the younguns.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Tanny eluded to it, as far as their thinking on trading Leon.
>>>>>>>>>>> All these young'ns that everybody's talking about... I don't know, I'd
>>>>>>>>>>> rather have Leon than most of those guys. Remind me why they were so
>>>>>>>>>>> reluctant to extend him again. I don't buy that it's his injury. It
>>>>>>>>>>> might be, but let's see what kind of contract Seattle gives him. That
>>>>>>>>>>> will give us our answer.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>>>>>> Revis. David Harris. Cromartie. Nick Mangold. D'Brickashaw
>>>>>>>>>> Ferguson. Santonio Holmes or Braylon Edwards (prob not both),
>>>>>>>>>> Cotchery. All of these are far more important than Leon.
>>>>>>>>> And only Mangold is due to be a UFA. And I agree, Mangold is more
>>>>>>>>> important than Leon. Holmes, Edwards, and Cromartie are not. Leon
>>>>>>>>> would have been the 2nd most important free agent for them to deal with
>>>>>>>>> in '11.
>>>>>>>> Not sure about Harris or Brick , but I know Revis' contract needs to be addressed.
>>>>>>>> It has provisions that will be coming due, that will kill the Jets.
>>>>>>> Jumping in late here but the one thing about McKnight is that he is very
>>>>>>> similar to Leon. HS star that underperformed although Mcknight did in 3
>>>>>>> years what it took Leon to do in 4. Maybe there is hope.
>>>>>>> Still hate the trade.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>> are you that sure that Leon was going to return to his former
>>>>>> explosive self? Would he still have those precision cuts and speed?
>>>>>> I'll miss him. But I understand.
>>>>> He broke his leg it wasn't his ACL. We know what he can do. No one
>>>>> knows how McKnight does in the NFL.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>> Correction: We all know what he once could do. Not what he "can"
>>>> do. a compound fracture with the bone protruding from the leg,and in
>>>> Leon's case broken in more than one place, is a tough recovery. Any
>>>> deviation from his ability to cut will dimish Leon's explosiveness.
>>>> This injury could certainly have an adverse affect on that. No...
>>>> it's not an ACL but it was still a brutal injury. Washington can
>>>> barely run a straight line right now. He still can't cut. That will
>>>> take time and only time will tell how detrimental this was to what
>>>> made him special.
>>> Are you sure? It was just a week ago that Tanny said he'd be ready for
>>> the start of the season. I'm completely confused here. Usually it's
>>> really hard to trade injured players. They don't pass physicals. I
>>> can't remember the last time a player with a questionable injury was
>>> traded. I really find it unlikely that he won't come back from this
>>> injury and remain effective.- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> After the trade, Tanny said in an interview that he didn't think Leon
>> would be able to start the season. But he said that almost in passing
>> while discussing that the Jets wouldn't be able to give him his pay
>> day at the end of the season. Hey, it has been just over 5 months
>> since the surgery. Any doctors in the houose? I have no idea whether
>> the fact that Leopn can only run straight ahead and is not able to or
>> not permitted to cut at this point puts him on schedule or behind it.
>> Common sense says that he would not be up to speed in 2010 anyway and
>> that if (a big if) his explosiveness returns, that would be in 2011.
>> Considering that the Jets think they would not be able to pay him in
>> 2011, it was best to take what they could get for a guy who isn't
>> remotely close to passing a physical. Carroll taking a humongous risk
>> with Leon. I see he also traded with the Titans for Lendale White.
>
>Tut, I just don't get your point of view. :)
>
>Players sustain bad injuries all the time. They're practically always
>ready to play the next season. Football careers are short. They don't
>take a whole year to get back into things. Things just don't move that
>slowly. It's possible that you're right and that they'd have to
>redshirt him for next year, but damn, I can't remember the last time
>that happened. Especially to a young guy.
>
>Honestly, I think the injury is practically a non-factor. I think there
>are three reasons that have been proposed that might explain their thinking:
>1) They really really liked McKnight and are willing to take a risk that
>he pans out in the NFL.
>2) They think Leon might be PUP and, for whatever reason, they're not
>willing to wait until week 7 for him.
>3) They hate his agent and are unwilling to deal with him and holdouts
>and whatever else.
>
>I think (1) is a valid reason. Risky, but valid. I think (2) is a
>mistake for a team that has postseason hopes. And I think (3) would be
>idiotic and impulsive, and characteristic of bad GMing. Although maybe
>not unprecedented when you consider how they handled Kendall, Moore,
>Baker, and Coles.

4) Leon turned into a pain in the butt, and was no longer worth the effort, especially in
view of his injury, and that they'd have to revisit his contract in a year.

5) Multiple factors... all of the above.

I tend to think it was multiple factors... no one factor.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Faneca upset, but classy...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/49bad415f25aae3e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 4:22 pm
From: Harlan Lachman


In article <5cqdnaddbOaaOkjWnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
MZ <mark@nospam.void> wrote:

> Tutor wrote:
> > On Apr 26, 10:00 am, Glenn Greenstein <lexa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Apr 26, 9:53 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Apr 25, 11:38 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
> >>>> I suspect when he wouldn't restructure his contract, he figured the Jets
> >>>> would never eat
> >>>> $5+ mil. So, he's upset how things turned out. I heard he wanted to
> >>>> retire here.
> >>>> From Cimini:
> >>>> Commenting for the first time since his release, Faneca expressed
> >>>> mixed emotions about
> >>>> his departure, but he did say he was "upset" with the Jets¹ decision to
> >>>> let a couple of
> >>>> unproven players battle for his former job.
> >>>> "I'm not sure what I am," Faneca said Sunday afternoon in an e-mail to
> >>>> ESPNNewYork.com.
> >>>> "I'm not necessarily angry, but I did not want things to end the way
> >>>> they did. I¹m upset
> >>>> with their decision. I think they made the decision that they felt was
> >>>> for the future of
> >>>> the team.
> >>>> "That's fine, this is a business, but everyone wants to leave on
> >>>> their own terms. I'll
> >>>> move on and find another opportunity to play. My family and I had a
> >>>> great time being part
> >>>> of the Jets and the community and will always look at our time here and
> >>>> the friends we
> >>>> made as a great time in our lives."
> >>>> ************
> >>>> In a world filled with loud, egotistical morons, Faneca is all class.
> >>>> One of the reasons,
> >>>> I think management made a mistake, especially, with some of the
> >>>> questionable characters
> >>>> we've recently brought onboard.
> >>> If Faneca was such a classy team guy, he would have agreed to
> >>> restructure. He above all knows he had a bad year. He gave up sacks
> >>> like candy and was resorting to going low on his blocks. He also had
> >>> a hard time moving the pile.
> >>> Rex was interviewed and said that if they did not think Slauson and
> >>> Vlad could take over, they would not have let Faneca walk.
> >>> Like I been saying. Faneca's pass blocking has been so bad, any
> >>> decent prospect can come in and do a better job and for less money.
> >> There he goes with the money again.- Hide quoted text -
> >>
> >> - Show quoted text -
> >
> > I think you, MZ and some others are being naive about the money.
> > THere's more to this than $2 million. We'll eventually find out.
>
> We're not being any more naive than you are. I don't think either of us
> knows the rule. I already said that if this saves them appreciable cap
> space in '11 then I'll agree that it's a good move. If it DOESN'T save
> them cap space in '11, will you agree that it's a bad move?

I won't. I assume the FO actually wanted to upgrade the position and
thought they were doing so.

If our OL does not produce as well as last year's OL, then I will agree
it was a horrific move.

Cap space cap shmace. As you point out, letting players go like Faneca
and Leon has no impact on next year's cap -- if there is one.

And if there is compensatory picks in the new CBA, we would not likely
have gotten any for Faneca in 2012. Maybe for Leon. For sure with
Braylon or Cromartie.

h


== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 4:25 pm
From: Harlan Lachman


In article <qb2ct5ts35nugipun6vj3av9rghukgcgct@4ax.com>,
buRford <buRford@buR.ford.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:13:21 -0700 (PDT), Tutor <dcat4434@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Apr 26, 3:04 pm, Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
> >> Tutor wrote:
> >> > On Apr 26, 10:45 am, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
> >> >> Tutor wrote:
> >> >>> On Apr 26, 10:00 am, Glenn Greenstein <lexa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>> On Apr 26, 9:53 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> >>>>> On Apr 25, 11:38 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>>> I suspect when he wouldn't restructure his contract, he figured the
> >> >>>>>> Jets would never eat
> >> >>>>>> $5+ mil.  So, he's upset how things turned out.  I heard he wanted
> >> >>>>>> to retire here.
> >> >>>>>> From Cimini:
> >> >>>>>>     Commenting for the first time since his release, Faneca
> >> >>>>>> expressed mixed emotions about
> >> >>>>>> his departure, but he did say he was "upset" with the Jets'
> >> >>>>>> decision to let a couple of
> >> >>>>>> unproven players battle for his former job.
> >> >>>>>> "I'm not sure what I am," Faneca said Sunday afternoon in an e-mail
> >> >>>>>> to ESPNNewYork.com.
> >> >>>>>> "I'm not necessarily angry, but I did not want things to end the
> >> >>>>>> way they did. I'm upset
> >> >>>>>> with their decision. I think they made the decision that they felt
> >> >>>>>> was for the future of
> >> >>>>>> the team.
> >> >>>>>>     "That's fine, this is a business, but everyone wants to leave
> >> >>>>>> on their own terms. I'll
> >> >>>>>> move on and find another opportunity to play. My family and I had a
> >> >>>>>> great time being part
> >> >>>>>> of the Jets and the community and will always look at our time here
> >> >>>>>> and the friends we
> >> >>>>>> made as a great time in our lives."
> >> >>>>>> ************
> >> >>>>>> In a world filled with loud, egotistical morons, Faneca is all
> >> >>>>>> class.  One of the reasons,
> >> >>>>>> I think management made a mistake, especially, with some of the
> >> >>>>>> questionable characters
> >> >>>>>> we've recently brought onboard.
> >> >>>>> If Faneca was such a classy team guy, he would have agreed to
> >> >>>>> restructure.  He above all knows he had a bad year.  He gave up
> >> >>>>> sacks
> >> >>>>> like candy and was resorting to going low on his blocks.  He also
> >> >>>>> had
> >> >>>>> a hard time moving the pile.
> >> >>>>> Rex was interviewed and said that if they did not think Slauson and
> >> >>>>> Vlad could take over, they would not have let Faneca walk.
> >> >>>>> Like I been saying.  Faneca's pass blocking has been so bad, any
> >> >>>>> decent prospect can come in and do a better job and for less money.
> >> >>>> There he goes with the money again.- Hide quoted text -
> >> >>>> - Show quoted text -
> >> >>> I think you, MZ and some others are being naive about the money.
> >> >>> THere's more to this than $2 million.  We'll eventually find out.
> >> >> We're not being any more naive than you are.  I don't think either of
> >> >> us
> >> >> knows the rule.  I already said that if this saves them appreciable cap
> >> >> space in '11 then I'll agree that it's a good move.  If it DOESN'T save
> >> >> them cap space in '11, will you agree that it's a bad move?- Hide
> >> >> quoted text -
> >>
> >> >> - Show quoted text -
> >>
> >> > If there is no impact to 2011, then perhaps. Hard to believe that this
> >> > is the case, because it just doesn't make that much sense.  They asked
> >> > to take a pay cut weeks ago and they had been shopping him right up to
> >> > the draft with no takers.  THere very well  may be a non financial
> >> > part to this one.  None of us know, therefore none of us can say this
> >> > is a great, good, weak or horrible move with any certainty.  What is
> >> > certain is theat Faneca let up more sacks than all but 3 other
> >> > starting guards in the league.  That sucks.  Hopefully his replacement
> >> > can and will do better while not being a liability in the run game.
> >> > For all the people yelling abouot Faneca, very few are willing to
> >> > acknowledge just how awful he was in pass protection time and time
> >> > again.  In fact I recall several here who quickly blamed the sacks he
> >> > let blow by him on Brick.
> >>
> >> Tutor, guaranteed salary of a cut player hits this year only dead cap
> >> space hits in the first uncapped year.  The logic of this is simple.
> >> The players union didn't want all the Gholstons getting cut.
> >>
> >> We know that no one understands the outcome or all the details all we
> >> are saying it is was easier to keep him.
> >>
> >> I can't remember anyone saying he was a stud when it comes to pass
> >> blocking.  What I have said is that what he does in space both out to
> >> his right & left is very valuable.- Hide quoted text -
> >>
> >> - Show quoted text -
> >
> >Agreed John. He was a terrific pulling guard. That will be missed.
> >But I don't see his departure as such a gloom and doom scenario.
> >Unless they sign Adrien Clark to fill in, that is.
>
> I don't think anyone is doing gloom & doom, tut.
> It's more that if you're paying the $5+mil anyway, that $2+ is a trivial
> insurance
> investment... whether AF starts, or not. As it stands, Slauson/Vlad is a
> total unknown,
> even to management/coaching... and our depth is still questionable.

Burf, I am not sure they were not worried that Faneca sitting on the
bench while a rook or second year player was out there would not be more
problematic.

If the FO really thinks he was not effective on pass blocking or
straight power plays, letting him go where he wanted might be better for
team morale than sitting his ass and playing a newbie and thereby
avoiding players choosing up sides.

Not saying that is the reason, but it makes more sense than saving $2.3
mil.

h


== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 5:08 pm
From: A J

>
> Since Saturday is not all the time.  I think the Jets did the right
> thing with Faneca and Leon.  I think they did the wrong thing with
> Feeley and Jones.  I dont like Santonio, but he is a high reward low
> risk deal and I guess he deserves more of a chance to grow up.


Michael,

With all due respect, we ALL have opinions in this group, that is the
point of this exercise, after all, isn't it?

It is my opinion that you accurately describe Faneca's diminishing
skills, however, you completely discount
the fact that a pro bowl caliber player, even with diminishing skills,
might still be superior to a rookie or 2nd year player.
The phrase, "I forgot more than he'll ever know" comes to mind.

I have also seen stats posted that indicate AF was a respectable run
blocker, albeit a suspect pass blocker.
What I find interesting with regard to the pass block rating is this,
it is not as if the difference between the best
and worst was huge. Not as if the best allowed 1 sack and the worst
allowed 50. The actual differential seems to be ~ .5 sack/game.
Granted, that is a significant delta, but in reality, it translates to
8 sacks / season which, quite honestly, is significantly lower
than the perceived number a reader of any of your posts might,
understandably, arrive at.

Finally, if we are still paying at least some of his $7m?, then the
only benefit I see is a roster spot.

We've been thin @ OL for a few years, and we continue to be.

Only now, we're thin without the benefit of a pro bowl player who, at
the very least, might be a mentor to the newly acquired, albeit thin,
depth.

I'm a pretty consistent reader of this group, but I only post when I
have a firm opinion.

One thing I've noticed,

It's my opinion that you need to understand the shades of gray because
this game is NEVER black and white.

Just My Opinion,


A J


== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 5:44 pm
From: Michael


On Apr 26, 8:08 pm, A J <a...@fogliettaandson.com> wrote:
> > Since Saturday is not all the time.  I think the Jets did the right
> > thing with Faneca and Leon.  I think they did the wrong thing with
> > Feeley and Jones.  I dont like Santonio, but he is a high reward low
> > risk deal and I guess he deserves more of a chance to grow up.
>
> Michael,
>
> With all due respect, we ALL have opinions in this group, that is the
> point of this exercise, after all, isn't it?
>
> It is my opinion that you accurately describe Faneca's diminishing
> skills, however, you completely discount
> the fact that a pro bowl caliber player, even with diminishing skills,
> might still be superior to a rookie or 2nd year player.
> The phrase, "I forgot more than he'll ever know" comes to mind.
>
> I have also seen stats posted that indicate AF was a respectable run
> blocker, albeit a suspect pass blocker.
> What I find interesting with regard to the pass block rating is this,
> it is not as if the difference between the best
> and worst was huge. Not as if the best allowed 1 sack and the worst
> allowed 50. The actual differential seems to be ~ .5 sack/game.
> Granted, that is a significant delta, but in reality, it translates to
> 8 sacks / season which, quite honestly, is significantly lower
> than the  perceived number a reader of any of your posts might,
> understandably, arrive at.
>
> Finally, if we are still paying at least some of his $7m?, then the
> only benefit I see is a roster spot.
>
> We've been thin @ OL for a few years, and we continue to be.
>
> Only now, we're thin without the benefit of a pro bowl player who, at
> the very least, might be a mentor to the newly acquired, albeit thin,
> depth.
>
> I'm a pretty consistent reader of this group, but I only post when I
> have a firm opinion.
>
> One thing I've noticed,
>
> It's my opinion that you need to understand the shades of gray because
> this game is NEVER black and white.
>
> Just My Opinion,
>
> A J

All good points AJ. I may not agree with them, but as you say, that
is what a football forum us for. It is a guess on my part, but I
think Tanny offered Faneca his five million with two million of the
rest of the seven million being defered or cut out in one way or
another. Perhaps as a back loaded performance bonus. Dont give up so
many sacks and you get the rest of it. I think they made that sort
of an offer and he turned it down. I dont mind one bit if Tanny
decided to save two million under those circumstances. More of my
opinion, but to me, he looked like a shot player.


== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 6:27 pm
From: A J


On Apr 26, 8:44 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Apr 26, 8:08 pm, A J <a...@fogliettaandson.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > Since Saturday is not all the time.  I think the Jets did the right
> > > thing with Faneca and Leon.  I think they did the wrong thing with
> > > Feeley and Jones.  I dont like Santonio, but he is a high reward low
> > > risk deal and I guess he deserves more of a chance to grow up.
>
> > Michael,
>
> > With all due respect, we ALL have opinions in this group, that is the
> > point of this exercise, after all, isn't it?
>
> > It is my opinion that you accurately describe Faneca's diminishing
> > skills, however, you completely discount
> > the fact that a pro bowl caliber player, even with diminishing skills,
> > might still be superior to a rookie or 2nd year player.
> > The phrase, "I forgot more than he'll ever know" comes to mind.
>
> > I have also seen stats posted that indicate AF was a respectable run
> > blocker, albeit a suspect pass blocker.
> > What I find interesting with regard to the pass block rating is this,
> > it is not as if the difference between the best
> > and worst was huge. Not as if the best allowed 1 sack and the worst
> > allowed 50. The actual differential seems to be ~ .5 sack/game.
> > Granted, that is a significant delta, but in reality, it translates to
> > 8 sacks / season which, quite honestly, is significantly lower
> > than the  perceived number a reader of any of your posts might,
> > understandably, arrive at.
>
> > Finally, if we are still paying at least some of his $7m?, then the
> > only benefit I see is a roster spot.
>
> > We've been thin @ OL for a few years, and we continue to be.
>
> > Only now, we're thin without the benefit of a pro bowl player who, at
> > the very least, might be a mentor to the newly acquired, albeit thin,
> > depth.
>
> > I'm a pretty consistent reader of this group, but I only post when I
> > have a firm opinion.
>
> > One thing I've noticed,
>
> > It's my opinion that you need to understand the shades of gray because
> > this game is NEVER black and white.
>
> > Just My Opinion,
>
> > A J
>
> All good points AJ.  I may not agree with them, but as you say, that
> is what a football forum us for.  It is a guess on my part, but I
> think Tanny offered Faneca his five million with two million of the
> rest of the seven million being defered or cut out in one way or
> another.  Perhaps as a back loaded performance bonus.  Dont give up so
> many sacks and you get the rest of it.   I think they made that sort
> of an offer and he turned it down.  I dont mind one bit if Tanny
> decided to save two million under those circumstances.  More of my
> opinion, but to me, he looked like a shot player.

Might I ask, Michael, what your guess is based on?

Just wondering if you are privy to inside info or are you, as are the
rest of us,
limited to the info available to all. You speak in " I think's and
Perhaps'".
I'm wondering if these are based in some sort of reality or if they
are, just guesses.

Should you be privy to unpublished info, your guess would need to be
weighted accordingly.

If your guess, however, is based on published info available to all,
regrettably,

Your guess is as good as mine.

I DO hope you answer this, because I, for one, am very curious.

A J


== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 6:39 pm
From: Michael


On Apr 26, 9:27 pm, A J <a...@fogliettaandson.com> wrote:
> On Apr 26, 8:44 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 26, 8:08 pm, A J <a...@fogliettaandson.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Since Saturday is not all the time.  I think the Jets did the right
> > > > thing with Faneca and Leon.  I think they did the wrong thing with
> > > > Feeley and Jones.  I dont like Santonio, but he is a high reward low
> > > > risk deal and I guess he deserves more of a chance to grow up.
>
> > > Michael,
>
> > > With all due respect, we ALL have opinions in this group, that is the
> > > point of this exercise, after all, isn't it?
>
> > > It is my opinion that you accurately describe Faneca's diminishing
> > > skills, however, you completely discount
> > > the fact that a pro bowl caliber player, even with diminishing skills,
> > > might still be superior to a rookie or 2nd year player.
> > > The phrase, "I forgot more than he'll ever know" comes to mind.
>
> > > I have also seen stats posted that indicate AF was a respectable run
> > > blocker, albeit a suspect pass blocker.
> > > What I find interesting with regard to the pass block rating is this,
> > > it is not as if the difference between the best
> > > and worst was huge. Not as if the best allowed 1 sack and the worst
> > > allowed 50. The actual differential seems to be ~ .5 sack/game.
> > > Granted, that is a significant delta, but in reality, it translates to
> > > 8 sacks / season which, quite honestly, is significantly lower
> > > than the  perceived number a reader of any of your posts might,
> > > understandably, arrive at.
>
> > > Finally, if we are still paying at least some of his $7m?, then the
> > > only benefit I see is a roster spot.
>
> > > We've been thin @ OL for a few years, and we continue to be.
>
> > > Only now, we're thin without the benefit of a pro bowl player who, at
> > > the very least, might be a mentor to the newly acquired, albeit thin,
> > > depth.
>
> > > I'm a pretty consistent reader of this group, but I only post when I
> > > have a firm opinion.
>
> > > One thing I've noticed,
>
> > > It's my opinion that you need to understand the shades of gray because
> > > this game is NEVER black and white.
>
> > > Just My Opinion,
>
> > > A J
>
> > All good points AJ.  I may not agree with them, but as you say, that
> > is what a football forum us for.  It is a guess on my part, but I
> > think Tanny offered Faneca his five million with two million of the
> > rest of the seven million being defered or cut out in one way or
> > another.  Perhaps as a back loaded performance bonus.  Dont give up so
> > many sacks and you get the rest of it.   I think they made that sort
> > of an offer and he turned it down.  I dont mind one bit if Tanny
> > decided to save two million under those circumstances.  More of my
> > opinion, but to me, he looked like a shot player.
>
> Might I ask, Michael, what your guess is based on?
>
> Just wondering if you are privy to inside info or are you, as are the
> rest of us,
> limited to the info available to all. You speak in " I think's and
> Perhaps'".
> I'm wondering if these are based in some sort of reality or if they
> are, just guesses.
>
> Should you be privy to unpublished info, your guess would need to be
> weighted accordingly.
>
> If your guess, however, is based on published info available to all,
> regrettably,
>
> Your guess is as good as mine.
>
> I DO hope you answer this, because I, for one, am very curious.
>
> A J- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

AJ... As far as my guess goes on what Faneca was offered. I just
pulled it out of my ass. It makes sense though. The word in previous
news reports was that they wanted Faneca but could not reach an
agreement. That can only mean money. Given that he is gonna get 5
million from the Jets no matter what, I assume the Jets offered him at
least that much. Given that the Jets did not want to pay him 7
million, I figure that extra two million was some how going to be cut
off or perhaps back loaded based on performance. Faneca did not agree
to that, as he can still get his five million from the Jets and then
go and sign another contract and get more money. Just a logical
guess. As far as my assessment of Faneca's performance. That is NO
guess at all. I saw the games. He cant move the pile and he was
exploited badly by pass rushers. I have never seen a guard go low on
his blocks so often since the Denver Bronco's offensive lines of the
1990's.


== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 7:33 pm
From: A J


On Apr 26, 9:39 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Apr 26, 9:27 pm, A J <a...@fogliettaandson.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 26, 8:44 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 26, 8:08 pm, A J <a...@fogliettaandson.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Since Saturday is not all the time.  I think the Jets did the right
> > > > > thing with Faneca and Leon.  I think they did the wrong thing with
> > > > > Feeley and Jones.  I dont like Santonio, but he is a high reward low
> > > > > risk deal and I guess he deserves more of a chance to grow up.
>
> > > > Michael,
>
> > > > With all due respect, we ALL have opinions in this group, that is the
> > > > point of this exercise, after all, isn't it?
>
> > > > It is my opinion that you accurately describe Faneca's diminishing
> > > > skills, however, you completely discount
> > > > the fact that a pro bowl caliber player, even with diminishing skills,
> > > > might still be superior to a rookie or 2nd year player.
> > > > The phrase, "I forgot more than he'll ever know" comes to mind.
>
> > > > I have also seen stats posted that indicate AF was a respectable run
> > > > blocker, albeit a suspect pass blocker.
> > > > What I find interesting with regard to the pass block rating is this,
> > > > it is not as if the difference between the best
> > > > and worst was huge. Not as if the best allowed 1 sack and the worst
> > > > allowed 50. The actual differential seems to be ~ .5 sack/game.
> > > > Granted, that is a significant delta, but in reality, it translates to
> > > > 8 sacks / season which, quite honestly, is significantly lower
> > > > than the  perceived number a reader of any of your posts might,
> > > > understandably, arrive at.
>
> > > > Finally, if we are still paying at least some of his $7m?, then the
> > > > only benefit I see is a roster spot.
>
> > > > We've been thin @ OL for a few years, and we continue to be.
>
> > > > Only now, we're thin without the benefit of a pro bowl player who, at
> > > > the very least, might be a mentor to the newly acquired, albeit thin,
> > > > depth.
>
> > > > I'm a pretty consistent reader of this group, but I only post when I
> > > > have a firm opinion.
>
> > > > One thing I've noticed,
>
> > > > It's my opinion that you need to understand the shades of gray because
> > > > this game is NEVER black and white.
>
> > > > Just My Opinion,
>
> > > > A J
>
> > > All good points AJ.  I may not agree with them, but as you say, that
> > > is what a football forum us for.  It is a guess on my part, but I
> > > think Tanny offered Faneca his five million with two million of the
> > > rest of the seven million being defered or cut out in one way or
> > > another.  Perhaps as a back loaded performance bonus.  Dont give up so
> > > many sacks and you get the rest of it.   I think they made that sort
> > > of an offer and he turned it down.  I dont mind one bit if Tanny
> > > decided to save two million under those circumstances.  More of my
> > > opinion, but to me, he looked like a shot player.
>
> > Might I ask, Michael, what your guess is based on?
>
> > Just wondering if you are privy to inside info or are you, as are the
> > rest of us,
> > limited to the info available to all. You speak in " I think's and
> > Perhaps'".
> > I'm wondering if these are based in some sort of reality or if they
> > are, just guesses.
>
> > Should you be privy to unpublished info, your guess would need to be
> > weighted accordingly.
>
> > If your guess, however, is based on published info available to all,
> > regrettably,
>
> > Your guess is as good as mine.
>
> > I DO hope you answer this, because I, for one, am very curious.
>
> > A J- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> AJ... As far as my guess goes on what Faneca was offered.  I just
> pulled it out of my ass.  It makes sense though.  The word in previous
> news reports was that they wanted Faneca but could not reach an
> agreement.  That can only mean money.  Given that he is gonna get 5
> million from the Jets no matter what, I assume the Jets offered him at
> least that much.  Given that the Jets did not want to pay him 7
> million, I figure that extra two million was some how going to be cut
> off or perhaps back loaded based on performance.  Faneca did not agree
> to that, as he can still get his five million from the Jets and then
> go and sign another contract and get more money. Just a logical
> guess.  As far as my assessment of Faneca's performance.  That is NO
> guess at all.  I saw the games.  He cant move the pile and he was
> exploited badly by pass rushers.  I have never seen a guard go low on
> his blocks so often since the Denver Bronco's offensive lines of the
> 1990's.

Thank you for the honest response, Michael.

As I proceed here, please forgive me if the number values are not
exactly correct. I am not that well versed
in the realm of contracts, and I am only using values I have seen
posted here.

When you state that "they" wanted AF but couldn't come to an
agreement, I assume you refer to the Jets.

If my assumption is correct, then the Jets felt that it would be
beneficial to the team to pay $5m just to get rid of him.

If this is correct, then you may be absolutely correct, he sucked, or,
the FO saw this decision would have to be made for '11, and
decided to take advantage of the uncapped year and accept the dead
salary in '10, benefiting from the uncapped position
resulting from the expired cba.

On either front, I agree with the move, however, on both fronts, I
question the wisdom.

Setting contract negotiations and cba aside, I would personally prefer
to have AF here, if not playing, then mentoring.

The D for '10 looks to be very good, but the D last year was as well.

The O last year was inconsistent, and I fear major change to that
fragile group might backfire.
As bad as AF was, as you state, don't you find it at all interesting
that Mangold, and especially Brick, made major
strides forward as a result of his presence?

The bottom line here, once again, comes down to opinion.

You've made yours clear.

I disagree.

I'd prefer to have AF, since we're paying a significant amount for
him, and if we had to adjust protections,
hold a fb or a te in pass situations, so be it.

This team was 30 min from paradise last year, but too much change, too
much tinkering, well,
let's just say I think I may have seen this movie before,

In Washington D C.

I was ok until Faneca, and I would have been ok with Leon, but the
aggregate of it all
remains a concern of mine.

Just My Opinion,


A J


== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 7:49 pm
From: buRford


On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 15:29:35 -0700 (PDT), Tutor <dcat4434@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Apr 26, 5:50�pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:13:21 -0700 (PDT), Tutor <dcat4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On Apr 26, 3:04 pm, Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
>> >> Tutor wrote:
>> >> > On Apr 26, 10:45 am, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>> >> >> Tutor wrote:
>> >> >>> On Apr 26, 10:00 am, Glenn Greenstein <lexa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>> On Apr 26, 9:53 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >> >>>>> On Apr 25, 11:38 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> I suspect when he wouldn't restructure his contract, he figured the Jets would never eat
>> >> >>>>>> $5+ mil. So, he's upset how things turned out. I heard he wanted to retire here.
>> >> >>>>>> From Cimini:
>> >> >>>>>> Commenting for the first time since his release, Faneca expressed mixed emotions about
>> >> >>>>>> his departure, but he did say he was "upset" with the Jets decision to let a couple of
>> >> >>>>>> unproven players battle for his former job.
>> >> >>>>>> "I'm not sure what I am," Faneca said Sunday afternoon in an e-mail to ESPNNewYork.com.
>> >> >>>>>> "I'm not necessarily angry, but I did not want things to end the way they did. I m upset
>> >> >>>>>> with their decision. I think they made the decision that they felt was for the future of
>> >> >>>>>> the team.
>> >> >>>>>> "That's fine, this is a business, but everyone wants to leave on their own terms. I'll
>> >> >>>>>> move on and find another opportunity to play. My family and I had a great time being part
>> >> >>>>>> of the Jets and the community and will always look at our time here and the friends we
>> >> >>>>>> made as a great time in our lives."
>> >> >>>>>> ************
>> >> >>>>>> In a world filled with loud, egotistical morons, Faneca is all class. One of the reasons,
>> >> >>>>>> I think management made a mistake, especially, with some of the questionable characters
>> >> >>>>>> we've recently brought onboard.
>> >> >>>>> If Faneca was such a classy team guy, he would have agreed to
>> >> >>>>> restructure. He above all knows he had a bad year. He gave up sacks
>> >> >>>>> like candy and was resorting to going low on his blocks. He also had
>> >> >>>>> a hard time moving the pile.
>> >> >>>>> Rex was interviewed and said that if they did not think Slauson and
>> >> >>>>> Vlad could take over, they would not have let Faneca walk.
>> >> >>>>> Like I been saying. Faneca's pass blocking has been so bad, any
>> >> >>>>> decent prospect can come in and do a better job and for less money.
>> >> >>>> There he goes with the money again.- Hide quoted text -
>> >> >>>> - Show quoted text -
>> >> >>> I think you, MZ and some others are being naive about the money.
>> >> >>> THere's more to this than $2 million. We'll eventually find out.
>> >> >> We're not being any more naive than you are. I don't think either of us
>> >> >> knows the rule. I already said that if this saves them appreciable cap
>> >> >> space in '11 then I'll agree that it's a good move. If it DOESN'T save
>> >> >> them cap space in '11, will you agree that it's a bad move?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >> > If there is no impact to 2011, then perhaps. Hard to believe that this
>> >> > is the case, because it just doesn't make that much sense. They asked
>> >> > to take a pay cut weeks ago and they had been shopping him right up to
>> >> > the draft with no takers. THere very well may be a non financial
>> >> > part to this one. None of us know, therefore none of us can say this
>> >> > is a great, good, weak or horrible move with any certainty. What is
>> >> > certain is theat Faneca let up more sacks than all but 3 other
>> >> > starting guards in the league. That sucks. Hopefully his replacement
>> >> > can and will do better while not being a liability in the run game.
>> >> > For all the people yelling abouot Faneca, very few are willing to
>> >> > acknowledge just how awful he was in pass protection time and time
>> >> > again. In fact I recall several here who quickly blamed the sacks he
>> >> > let blow by him on Brick.
>>
>> >> Tutor, guaranteed salary of a cut player hits this year only dead cap
>> >> space hits in the first uncapped year. The logic of this is simple.
>> >> The players union didn't want all the Gholstons getting cut.
>>
>> >> We know that no one understands the outcome or all the details all we
>> >> are saying it is was easier to keep him.
>>
>> >> I can't remember anyone saying he was a stud when it comes to pass
>> >> blocking. What I have said is that what he does in space both out to
>> >> his right & left is very valuable.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >Agreed John. �He was a terrific pulling guard. �That will be missed.
>> >But I don't see his departure as such a gloom and doom scenario.
>> >Unless they sign Adrien Clark to fill in, that is.
>>
>> I don't think anyone is doing gloom & doom, tut.
>> It's more that if you're paying the $5+mil anyway, that $2+ is a trivial insurance
>> investment... whether AF starts, or not. �As it stands, Slauson/Vlad is a total unknown,
>> even to management/coaching... and our depth is still questionable.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>whichis exactly why I believe there is way more to it than anyof us
>know. Faneca was telling people right here in town that he expected
>to be cut or traded right after the draft... and that was 7 - 10 days
>before the draft. And it leaked out a couple of days before the
>draft. It was no secret and no surprise.

And I heard he expected to be here this season, if he wasn't traded... that the Jets would
not eat $5 mil to cut him. Hence, his statement that he was upset that the Jets chose
inexperience over him. This makes more sense to me, since he's stated he wanted to finish
his career here. He liked the area for his family, and didn't want to uproot them again.
Also, lots of players were shocked Faneca was released. If he was saying he thought he'd
be cut, they wouldn't have reacted that way.


== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 7:58 pm
From: buRford


On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 19:25:56 -0400, Harlan Lachman <harlan@eeivt.com> wrote:

>In article <qb2ct5ts35nugipun6vj3av9rghukgcgct@4ax.com>,
> buRford <buRford@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:13:21 -0700 (PDT), Tutor <dcat4434@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Apr 26, 3:04 pm, Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
>> >> Tutor wrote:
>> >> > On Apr 26, 10:45 am, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>> >> >> Tutor wrote:
>> >> >>> On Apr 26, 10:00 am, Glenn Greenstein <lexa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>> On Apr 26, 9:53 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >> >>>>> On Apr 25, 11:38 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> I suspect when he wouldn't restructure his contract, he figured the
>> >> >>>>>> Jets would never eat
>> >> >>>>>> $5+ mil.  So, he's upset how things turned out.  I heard he wanted
>> >> >>>>>> to retire here.
>> >> >>>>>> From Cimini:
>> >> >>>>>>     Commenting for the first time since his release, Faneca
>> >> >>>>>> expressed mixed emotions about
>> >> >>>>>> his departure, but he did say he was "upset" with the Jets'
>> >> >>>>>> decision to let a couple of
>> >> >>>>>> unproven players battle for his former job.
>> >> >>>>>> "I'm not sure what I am," Faneca said Sunday afternoon in an e-mail
>> >> >>>>>> to ESPNNewYork.com.
>> >> >>>>>> "I'm not necessarily angry, but I did not want things to end the
>> >> >>>>>> way they did. I'm upset
>> >> >>>>>> with their decision. I think they made the decision that they felt
>> >> >>>>>> was for the future of
>> >> >>>>>> the team.
>> >> >>>>>>     "That's fine, this is a business, but everyone wants to leave
>> >> >>>>>> on their own terms. I'll
>> >> >>>>>> move on and find another opportunity to play. My family and I had a
>> >> >>>>>> great time being part
>> >> >>>>>> of the Jets and the community and will always look at our time here
>> >> >>>>>> and the friends we
>> >> >>>>>> made as a great time in our lives."
>> >> >>>>>> ************
>> >> >>>>>> In a world filled with loud, egotistical morons, Faneca is all
>> >> >>>>>> class.  One of the reasons,
>> >> >>>>>> I think management made a mistake, especially, with some of the
>> >> >>>>>> questionable characters
>> >> >>>>>> we've recently brought onboard.
>> >> >>>>> If Faneca was such a classy team guy, he would have agreed to
>> >> >>>>> restructure.  He above all knows he had a bad year.  He gave up
>> >> >>>>> sacks
>> >> >>>>> like candy and was resorting to going low on his blocks.  He also
>> >> >>>>> had
>> >> >>>>> a hard time moving the pile.
>> >> >>>>> Rex was interviewed and said that if they did not think Slauson and
>> >> >>>>> Vlad could take over, they would not have let Faneca walk.
>> >> >>>>> Like I been saying.  Faneca's pass blocking has been so bad, any
>> >> >>>>> decent prospect can come in and do a better job and for less money.
>> >> >>>> There he goes with the money again.- Hide quoted text -
>> >> >>>> - Show quoted text -
>> >> >>> I think you, MZ and some others are being naive about the money.
>> >> >>> THere's more to this than $2 million.  We'll eventually find out.
>> >> >> We're not being any more naive than you are.  I don't think either of
>> >> >> us
>> >> >> knows the rule.  I already said that if this saves them appreciable cap
>> >> >> space in '11 then I'll agree that it's a good move.  If it DOESN'T save
>> >> >> them cap space in '11, will you agree that it's a bad move?- Hide
>> >> >> quoted text -
>> >>
>> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>> >>
>> >> > If there is no impact to 2011, then perhaps. Hard to believe that this
>> >> > is the case, because it just doesn't make that much sense.  They asked
>> >> > to take a pay cut weeks ago and they had been shopping him right up to
>> >> > the draft with no takers.  THere very well  may be a non financial
>> >> > part to this one.  None of us know, therefore none of us can say this
>> >> > is a great, good, weak or horrible move with any certainty.  What is
>> >> > certain is theat Faneca let up more sacks than all but 3 other
>> >> > starting guards in the league.  That sucks.  Hopefully his replacement
>> >> > can and will do better while not being a liability in the run game.
>> >> > For all the people yelling abouot Faneca, very few are willing to
>> >> > acknowledge just how awful he was in pass protection time and time
>> >> > again.  In fact I recall several here who quickly blamed the sacks he
>> >> > let blow by him on Brick.
>> >>
>> >> Tutor, guaranteed salary of a cut player hits this year only dead cap
>> >> space hits in the first uncapped year.  The logic of this is simple.
>> >> The players union didn't want all the Gholstons getting cut.
>> >>
>> >> We know that no one understands the outcome or all the details all we
>> >> are saying it is was easier to keep him.
>> >>
>> >> I can't remember anyone saying he was a stud when it comes to pass
>> >> blocking.  What I have said is that what he does in space both out to
>> >> his right & left is very valuable.- Hide quoted text -
>> >>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>> >
>> >Agreed John. He was a terrific pulling guard. That will be missed.
>> >But I don't see his departure as such a gloom and doom scenario.
>> >Unless they sign Adrien Clark to fill in, that is.
>>
>> I don't think anyone is doing gloom & doom, tut.
>> It's more that if you're paying the $5+mil anyway, that $2+ is a trivial
>> insurance
>> investment... whether AF starts, or not. As it stands, Slauson/Vlad is a
>> total unknown,
>> even to management/coaching... and our depth is still questionable.
>
>Burf, I am not sure they were not worried that Faneca sitting on the
>bench while a rook or second year player was out there would not be more
>problematic.

Possible... although they really haven't shown much sensitivity to such a scenario, in
their moves this offseason (ie: TJ, Rhodes, Feely, Leon, etc).

>
>If the FO really thinks he was not effective on pass blocking or
>straight power plays, letting him go where he wanted might be better for
>team morale than sitting his ass and playing a newbie and thereby
>avoiding players choosing up sides.
>
>Not saying that is the reason, but it makes more sense than saving $2.3
>mil.
>

There's also a hubris factor with management. They bring in a couple of questionable
characters, & when questioned by the Media... *Rex will fix any such issues.*
So, any choosing sides, or *chemical imbalances*... Rex'll fix it.
As far as the OL... Callahan will fix it... and so it goes ;)


== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 8:01 pm
From: buRford


On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 17:08:43 -0700 (PDT), A J <al@fogliettaandson.com> wrote:

>
>>
>> Since Saturday is not all the time.  I think the Jets did the right
>> thing with Faneca and Leon.  I think they did the wrong thing with
>> Feeley and Jones.  I dont like Santonio, but he is a high reward low
>> risk deal and I guess he deserves more of a chance to grow up.
>
>
>Michael,
>
>With all due respect, we ALL have opinions in this group, that is the
>point of this exercise, after all, isn't it?
>
>It is my opinion that you accurately describe Faneca's diminishing
>skills, however, you completely discount
>the fact that a pro bowl caliber player, even with diminishing skills,
>might still be superior to a rookie or 2nd year player.
>The phrase, "I forgot more than he'll ever know" comes to mind.
>
>I have also seen stats posted that indicate AF was a respectable run
>blocker, albeit a suspect pass blocker.
>What I find interesting with regard to the pass block rating is this,
>it is not as if the difference between the best
>and worst was huge. Not as if the best allowed 1 sack and the worst
>allowed 50. The actual differential seems to be ~ .5 sack/game.
>Granted, that is a significant delta, but in reality, it translates to
>8 sacks / season which, quite honestly, is significantly lower
>than the perceived number a reader of any of your posts might,
>understandably, arrive at.
>
>Finally, if we are still paying at least some of his $7m?, then the
>only benefit I see is a roster spot.
>
>We've been thin @ OL for a few years, and we continue to be.
>
>Only now, we're thin without the benefit of a pro bowl player who, at
>the very least, might be a mentor to the newly acquired, albeit thin,
>depth.
>
>I'm a pretty consistent reader of this group, but I only post when I
>have a firm opinion.
>
>One thing I've noticed,
>
>It's my opinion that you need to understand the shades of gray because
>this game is NEVER black and white.
>
>Just My Opinion,
>
>

Well said, Mr AJ ;)


== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 8:20 pm
From: Michael


On Apr 26, 10:33 pm, A J <a...@fogliettaandson.com> wrote:
> On Apr 26, 9:39 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 26, 9:27 pm, A J <a...@fogliettaandson.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 26, 8:44 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 26, 8:08 pm, A J <a...@fogliettaandson.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Since Saturday is not all the time.  I think the Jets did the right
> > > > > > thing with Faneca and Leon.  I think they did the wrong thing with
> > > > > > Feeley and Jones.  I dont like Santonio, but he is a high reward low
> > > > > > risk deal and I guess he deserves more of a chance to grow up.
>
> > > > > Michael,
>
> > > > > With all due respect, we ALL have opinions in this group, that is the
> > > > > point of this exercise, after all, isn't it?
>
> > > > > It is my opinion that you accurately describe Faneca's diminishing
> > > > > skills, however, you completely discount
> > > > > the fact that a pro bowl caliber player, even with diminishing skills,
> > > > > might still be superior to a rookie or 2nd year player.
> > > > > The phrase, "I forgot more than he'll ever know" comes to mind.
>
> > > > > I have also seen stats posted that indicate AF was a respectable run
> > > > > blocker, albeit a suspect pass blocker.
> > > > > What I find interesting with regard to the pass block rating is this,
> > > > > it is not as if the difference between the best
> > > > > and worst was huge. Not as if the best allowed 1 sack and the worst
> > > > > allowed 50. The actual differential seems to be ~ .5 sack/game.
> > > > > Granted, that is a significant delta, but in reality, it translates to
> > > > > 8 sacks / season which, quite honestly, is significantly lower
> > > > > than the  perceived number a reader of any of your posts might,
> > > > > understandably, arrive at.
>
> > > > > Finally, if we are still paying at least some of his $7m?, then the
> > > > > only benefit I see is a roster spot.
>
> > > > > We've been thin @ OL for a few years, and we continue to be.
>
> > > > > Only now, we're thin without the benefit of a pro bowl player who, at
> > > > > the very least, might be a mentor to the newly acquired, albeit thin,
> > > > > depth.
>
> > > > > I'm a pretty consistent reader of this group, but I only post when I
> > > > > have a firm opinion.
>
> > > > > One thing I've noticed,
>
> > > > > It's my opinion that you need to understand the shades of gray because
> > > > > this game is NEVER black and white.
>
> > > > > Just My Opinion,
>
> > > > > A J
>
> > > > All good points AJ.  I may not agree with them, but as you say, that
> > > > is what a football forum us for.  It is a guess on my part, but I
> > > > think Tanny offered Faneca his five million with two million of the
> > > > rest of the seven million being defered or cut out in one way or
> > > > another.  Perhaps as a back loaded performance bonus.  Dont give up so
> > > > many sacks and you get the rest of it.   I think they made that sort
> > > > of an offer and he turned it down.  I dont mind one bit if Tanny
> > > > decided to save two million under those circumstances.  More of my
> > > > opinion, but to me, he looked like a shot player.
>
> > > Might I ask, Michael, what your guess is based on?
>
> > > Just wondering if you are privy to inside info or are you, as are the
> > > rest of us,
> > > limited to the info available to all. You speak in " I think's and
> > > Perhaps'".
> > > I'm wondering if these are based in some sort of reality or if they
> > > are, just guesses.
>
> > > Should you be privy to unpublished info, your guess would need to be
> > > weighted accordingly.
>
> > > If your guess, however, is based on published info available to all,
> > > regrettably,
>
> > > Your guess is as good as mine.
>
> > > I DO hope you answer this, because I, for one, am very curious.
>
> > > A J- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > AJ... As far as my guess goes on what Faneca was offered.  I just
> > pulled it out of my ass.  It makes sense though.  The word in previous
> > news reports was that they wanted Faneca but could not reach an
> > agreement.  That can only mean money.  Given that he is gonna get 5
> > million from the Jets no matter what, I assume the Jets offered him at
> > least that much.  Given that the Jets did not want to pay him 7
> > million, I figure that extra two million was some how going to be cut
> > off or perhaps back loaded based on performance.  Faneca did not agree
> > to that, as he can still get his five million from the Jets and then
> > go and sign another contract and get more money. Just a logical
> > guess.  As far as my assessment of Faneca's performance.  That is NO
> > guess at all.  I saw the games.  He cant move the pile and he was
> > exploited badly by pass rushers.  I have never seen a guard go low on
> > his blocks so often since the Denver Bronco's offensive lines of the
> > 1990's.
>
> Thank you for the honest response, Michael.
>
> As I proceed here, please forgive me if the number values are not
> exactly correct. I am not that well versed
> in the realm of contracts, and I am only using values I have seen
> posted here.
>
> When you state that "they" wanted AF but couldn't come to an
> agreement, I assume you refer to the Jets.
>
> If my assumption is correct, then the Jets felt that it would be
> beneficial to the team to pay $5m just to get rid of him.

I dont think they felt it was beneficial to pay him 5 million to get
lost. It was a big fat money pill to swallow that was the lesser of
two evils. I think they felt they could get the job done with
Slauson and spend 2 million less. The ideal would have been to get
Faneca to take less and stay, but obviously, he did not. I dont know
if you were around two years ago when the Jets made the deal to bring
him in, but I thought in the end it would turn out to be a waste of
money. I stated that his career was winding down and the Steelers
knew it and there was no way he should have been given that over the
top contract. As it turns out, Faneca took the money and ran and in
the end it was even a bigger waste of money than I could have thought
to begin with. I also dont think Faneca made Mangold. Mangold was on
the way to being the best center in football with or without Faneca
running off with 5 million Jet dollars. Faneca's play was so bad last
year, I dont see why anyone would feel he lifted the Jets line to a
higher level. When Slauson came in for Faneca in the Tampa game last
year, the left side of the line started to move the pile. IMHO,
Slauson's performance in that game in comparison to Faneca's
performace in the games leading up to that game is what gave Tanny and
Rex the balls to be able to play hard ball with Faneca.

> If this is correct, then you may be absolutely correct, he sucked, or,
> the FO saw this decision would have to be made for '11, and
> decided to take advantage of the uncapped year and accept the dead
> salary in '10, benefiting from the uncapped position
> resulting from the expired cba.
>
> On either front, I agree with the move, however, on both fronts, I
> question the wisdom.
>
> Setting contract negotiations and cba aside, I would personally prefer
> to have AF here, if not playing, then mentoring.
>
> The D for '10 looks to be very good, but the D last year was as well.
>
> The O last year was inconsistent, and I fear major change to that
> fragile group might backfire.
> As bad as AF was, as you state, don't you find it at all interesting
> that Mangold, and especially Brick, made major
> strides forward as a result of his presence?
>
> The bottom line here, once again, comes down to opinion.
>
> You've made yours clear.
>
> I disagree.
>
> I'd prefer to have AF, since we're paying a significant amount for
> him, and if we had to adjust protections,
> hold a fb or a te in pass situations, so be it.
>
> This team was 30 min from paradise last year, but too much change, too
> much tinkering, well,
> let's just say I think I may have seen this movie before,
>
> In Washington D C.
>
> I was ok until Faneca, and I would have been ok with Leon, but the
> aggregate of it all
> remains a concern of mine.
>
> Just My Opinion,
>
> A J- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Leon traded to Seattle...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/228e265ca4382bd2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 4:27 pm
From: Harlan Lachman


In article
<a503808c-b134-43b4-81d2-67bc214b74e0@r1g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Tutor <dcat4434@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Apr 25, 1:49 pm, Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com> wrote:
> > In article <9uOdnaUOwfbB9U7WnZ2dnUVZ_jyqK...@giganews.com>,
> >
> >  MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
> > > Michael wrote:
> > > > He'll do what Leon can do for less
> > > > money.
> >
> > > Didn't you just tell me yesterday that we can't count on guys that are
> > > drafted?  You've already elevated a 4th rounder into top-tier RB status?
> >
> > > >Then go look at
> > > > how well Matt Slauson played when he came in for Faneca.  Slauson was
> > > > blasing out holes like the Husker guard that he is.
> >
> > > If Slauson is better than Faneca, why didn't they start him instead when
> > > they had the chance?
> >
> > Mark, not only that, but if Carroll thought so highly about McNight, he
> > could have drafted him instead of trading for an injured Leon.
> >
> > These are the worries that any reasonable Jet fan will have until proven
> > otherwise.
> >
> > Harlan
>
> I don't think that is correct harlan. 1st look at the sequence of
> events: Jets took McKnight in Rd 4. When Carroll traded for Leon,
> McKnight was already gone. Unless Carroll was willing to burn a 3rd
> or a 4th on McKnight, another team (Jets) scooped him up before he
> could get him in round 5 or below.
>
> But that's not the real story anyway. Pete Carroll left USC to avoid
> the scandal. One of the several USC players to allegedly have
> received the fruits of USC's NCAA sins was McKnight. There is no way
> in hell that Carroll would bring in one of the players at the center
> of the very scandal that Caroll was trying to escape. I doubt Carroll
> would pick any USC player to whom he allegedly gave benefits while at
> USC.

Better point.

h

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gholston contract "restructured"
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/6006e3555b80fc7c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 4:35 pm
From: Harlan Lachman


In article <76cbt55pfnpeq1mmmj3be9ogo6r3v4hr99@4ax.com>,
buRford <buRford@buR.ford.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 06:47:13 -0700 (PDT), Michael <mjd1966@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
> >1050 ESPN Reports Vernon Gholston has agreed to restructure his
> >contract.
> >
> >I dont know the details, but I doubt the new deal pays him more :-)
>
> He actually asked for the restructure. His base salary is less, with
> incentives.
> Does he feel guilty for takin' all that money, & producing nada ;)
>
>
> Gholston's deal restructured
> By Rich Cimini and Adam Schefter
> ESPNNewYork.com
> Sunday, April 25, 2010
>
> Turns out the New York Jets did more than change Vernon Gholston's position
> for 2010. They
> also took some money from his pocket.
>
> The Jets have restructured Gholston's contract, a source familiar with the
> situation said
> on Sunday. While the specific numbers weren't immediately available, the team
> lowered his
> base salary (originally $1.9 million), with a chance for him to recoup the
> money by
> reaching incentives, a source said.
>
> The important part of the restructuring is this: It ensures that Gholston,
> the
> disappointing first-round pick in 2008, will go to training camp with the
> team and will
> have a chance to earn playing time.
>
> Gholston appeared to be on shaky ground at the end of last season, as the
> organization
> deliberated on whether to give him another season or to cut bait. With it
> being an
> uncapped year, it would've been the ideal time to unload him without a
> salary-cap hit.
> They decided to retain him, but with a different position.
>
> After two seasons at outside linebacker, Gholston was moved recently to
> defensive end,
> where he will play behind Shaun Ellis. The change, first reported by
> ESPNNewYork.com, was
> cemented when they signed free-agent pass rusher Jason Taylor, formerly of
> the Dolphins.
>
> Rex Ryan, who confirmed the move Saturday in his post-draft news conference,
> said Gholston
> at defensive end "will give us the opportunity to be more athletic at the
> position." In
> reality, it puts Gholston one step closer to the door.
>
> Gholston was the sixth overall choice in 2008, and signed a five-year
> contract with $21
> million in guarantees. So far, it looks like one of the worst contracts in
> recent history.
> In two seasons, he has yet to record a sack.
>
> Update: According to HHH and HomeOfTheJets, Gholston, who appeared on the NFL
> Network,
> approached the staff about restructuring the contract. That being the case
> Vernon has
> realized he really hasn't earned the money and is trying to reach a personal
> goal of
> earning his keep this season.

Another stupid article. The reason for the restructure and the reason
the NFLPA will go along was that it allows Gholston to recover the
incentives he already missed out on.

If he continues to s--ck we play him a lot less. If he plays OK, he does
OK. If he becomes the player he was supposed to, he recovers some of the
incentives he lost.

Both sides can win.

h


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 6:19 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"Harlan Lachman" <harlan@eeivt.com> wrote in message
news:harlan-AD4735.19355026042010@news60.forteinc.com...
> In article <76cbt55pfnpeq1mmmj3be9ogo6r3v4hr99@4ax.com>,
> buRford <buRford@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 06:47:13 -0700 (PDT), Michael <mjd1966@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >1050 ESPN Reports Vernon Gholston has agreed to restructure his
>> >contract.
>> >
>> >I dont know the details, but I doubt the new deal pays him more :-)
>>
>> He actually asked for the restructure. His base salary is less, with
>> incentives.
>> Does he feel guilty for takin' all that money, & producing nada ;)
>>
>>
>> Gholston's deal restructured
>> By Rich Cimini and Adam Schefter
>> ESPNNewYork.com
>> Sunday, April 25, 2010
>>
>> Turns out the New York Jets did more than change Vernon Gholston's
>> position
>> for 2010. They
>> also took some money from his pocket.
>>
>> The Jets have restructured Gholston's contract, a source familiar with
>> the
>> situation said
>> on Sunday. While the specific numbers weren't immediately available, the
>> team
>> lowered his
>> base salary (originally $1.9 million), with a chance for him to recoup
>> the
>> money by
>> reaching incentives, a source said.
>>
>> The important part of the restructuring is this: It ensures that
>> Gholston,
>> the
>> disappointing first-round pick in 2008, will go to training camp with the
>> team and will
>> have a chance to earn playing time.
>>
>> Gholston appeared to be on shaky ground at the end of last season, as the
>> organization
>> deliberated on whether to give him another season or to cut bait. With it
>> being an
>> uncapped year, it would've been the ideal time to unload him without a
>> salary-cap hit.
>> They decided to retain him, but with a different position.
>>
>> After two seasons at outside linebacker, Gholston was moved recently to
>> defensive end,
>> where he will play behind Shaun Ellis. The change, first reported by
>> ESPNNewYork.com, was
>> cemented when they signed free-agent pass rusher Jason Taylor, formerly
>> of
>> the Dolphins.
>>
>> Rex Ryan, who confirmed the move Saturday in his post-draft news
>> conference,
>> said Gholston
>> at defensive end "will give us the opportunity to be more athletic at the
>> position." In
>> reality, it puts Gholston one step closer to the door.
>>
>> Gholston was the sixth overall choice in 2008, and signed a five-year
>> contract with $21
>> million in guarantees. So far, it looks like one of the worst contracts
>> in
>> recent history.
>> In two seasons, he has yet to record a sack.
>>
>> Update: According to HHH and HomeOfTheJets, Gholston, who appeared on the
>> NFL
>> Network,
>> approached the staff about restructuring the contract. That being the
>> case
>> Vernon has
>> realized he really hasn't earned the money and is trying to reach a
>> personal
>> goal of
>> earning his keep this season.
>
> Another stupid article. The reason for the restructure and the reason
> the NFLPA will go along was that it allows Gholston to recover the
> incentives he already missed out on.
>
> If he continues to s--ck we play him a lot less. If he plays OK, he does
> OK. If he becomes the player he was supposed to, he recovers some of the
> incentives he lost.
>
> Both sides can win.
>
> h

If he has a chance of becoming what he was supposed to be...I'm getting back
in shape, I have a chance then too.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 8:04 pm
From: buRford


On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 21:19:18 -0400, "papa.carl44" <papadotcarl@nospamverizon.net> wrote:

>
>"Harlan Lachman" <harlan@eeivt.com> wrote in message
>news:harlan-AD4735.19355026042010@news60.forteinc.com...
>> In article <76cbt55pfnpeq1mmmj3be9ogo6r3v4hr99@4ax.com>,
>> buRford <buRford@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 06:47:13 -0700 (PDT), Michael <mjd1966@verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >1050 ESPN Reports Vernon Gholston has agreed to restructure his
>>> >contract.
>>> >
>>> >I dont know the details, but I doubt the new deal pays him more :-)
>>>
>>> He actually asked for the restructure. His base salary is less, with
>>> incentives.
>>> Does he feel guilty for takin' all that money, & producing nada ;)
>>>
>>>
>>> Gholston's deal restructured
>>> By Rich Cimini and Adam Schefter
>>> ESPNNewYork.com
>>> Sunday, April 25, 2010
>>>
>>> Turns out the New York Jets did more than change Vernon Gholston's
>>> position
>>> for 2010. They
>>> also took some money from his pocket.
>>>
>>> The Jets have restructured Gholston's contract, a source familiar with
>>> the
>>> situation said
>>> on Sunday. While the specific numbers weren't immediately available, the
>>> team
>>> lowered his
>>> base salary (originally $1.9 million), with a chance for him to recoup
>>> the
>>> money by
>>> reaching incentives, a source said.
>>>
>>> The important part of the restructuring is this: It ensures that
>>> Gholston,
>>> the
>>> disappointing first-round pick in 2008, will go to training camp with the
>>> team and will
>>> have a chance to earn playing time.
>>>
>>> Gholston appeared to be on shaky ground at the end of last season, as the
>>> organization
>>> deliberated on whether to give him another season or to cut bait. With it
>>> being an
>>> uncapped year, it would've been the ideal time to unload him without a
>>> salary-cap hit.
>>> They decided to retain him, but with a different position.
>>>
>>> After two seasons at outside linebacker, Gholston was moved recently to
>>> defensive end,
>>> where he will play behind Shaun Ellis. The change, first reported by
>>> ESPNNewYork.com, was
>>> cemented when they signed free-agent pass rusher Jason Taylor, formerly
>>> of
>>> the Dolphins.
>>>
>>> Rex Ryan, who confirmed the move Saturday in his post-draft news
>>> conference,
>>> said Gholston
>>> at defensive end "will give us the opportunity to be more athletic at the
>>> position." In
>>> reality, it puts Gholston one step closer to the door.
>>>
>>> Gholston was the sixth overall choice in 2008, and signed a five-year
>>> contract with $21
>>> million in guarantees. So far, it looks like one of the worst contracts
>>> in
>>> recent history.
>>> In two seasons, he has yet to record a sack.
>>>
>>> Update: According to HHH and HomeOfTheJets, Gholston, who appeared on the
>>> NFL
>>> Network,
>>> approached the staff about restructuring the contract. That being the
>>> case
>>> Vernon has
>>> realized he really hasn't earned the money and is trying to reach a
>>> personal
>>> goal of
>>> earning his keep this season.
>>
>> Another stupid article. The reason for the restructure and the reason
>> the NFLPA will go along was that it allows Gholston to recover the
>> incentives he already missed out on.
>>
>> If he continues to s--ck we play him a lot less. If he plays OK, he does
>> OK. If he becomes the player he was supposed to, he recovers some of the
>> incentives he lost.
>>
>> Both sides can win.
>>
>> h
>
>If he has a chance of becoming what he was supposed to be...I'm getting back
>in shape, I have a chance then too.
>

Go for it, Carl
I'll bring the pom-poms & the megaphone ;)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Our UFAs as of now...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/5a27770e33085461?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 7:10 pm
From: buRford


Just a quick look... we got the Toeaina brothers (both Albert & of course, Simi) coming in
for a tryout... & Marlon Lucky, a RB from Nebraska... to name a few ;)

As per Cimini...


Kevin Basped, LB, 6-4, 254, Nevada

Keith Buckman, OG, 6-5, 321, North Dakota State

Jeff Cumberland, TE, 6-4, 249, Illinois

Brian Jackson, CB, 6-0, 198, Oklahoma

Jason Lamb, DE, 6-4, 284, Baylor

Broderick Stewart, LB, 6-4, 232, Vanderbilt

Matt Stommes, OT, 6-6, 311, Minnesota

Charlie Tanner, OG, 6-3, 305, Texas

Don Warren, S, 5-11, 195, Michigan

Ernest Williams, DT, 6-0, 281, Pittsburgh

Tryout players:

Alex Brink, QB, 6-2, 211, Washington State; Marcus Burton, LB, 5-11, 258, Colorado; Mickey
Dean, RB, 5-9, 225, Arkansas-Pine Bluff; Marcus Ezeff, S, 5-11, 196, California; Philip
Kirkland, WR, 5-10, 190, Bethune Cookman; Marlon Lucky, RB, 5-11, 216, Nebraska; Wesley
Lyons, WR, 6-8, 233, West Virginia; Donye McCleskey, S, 5-11, 209, Indiana State.

Damon McDaniel, WR, 5-10, 201, Hampton; Michael Owen, TE, 6-2, 249, Syracuse; Erik
Pedersen, LB, 6-0, 230, Portland State; Mark Petro, PK, 5-9, 180, Hillsdale; Jesse Rack,
TE, 6-3, 238, Buffalo; Cory Reamer, LB, 6-3, 231, Alabama; Brooks Rossman, PK, 6-1, 175,
Kansas State; Brashton Satele, LB, 6-0, 241, Hawaii; Albert Toeaina, OT, 6-5, 329,
Tennessee; Simi Toeaina, NT, 6-2, 307, Oregon; Eric Ward, QB, 6-1, 215, Richmond; Anthony
Wiseman, CB, 5-9, 186, Maryland.


==============================================================================

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