Wednesday, April 28, 2010

Re: Medarticles Request article from Rheologica Acta

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Dear Anand,
Thanks.

Regards,
Guru

On Apr 28, 11:15 pm, anandkumarreddy <anandkumarre...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Enclosed
>
> anandhttp://med-videos.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Guru <gandhor2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Friends,
> > Can sombody help me with this article:
>
> > Article :Flow and structure development behavior of bar soaps
> > containing synthetic detergent
> > Journal Rheologica Acta
> > Publisher       Springer Berlin / Heidelberg
> > ISSN    0035-4511 (Print) 1435-1528 (Online)
> > Issue   Volume 43, Number 4 / August, 2004
>
> > Warm Regards,
> > Guru
>
> > --
> > You can edit your Group Email settings by visiting the following link.
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/medarticles/subscribe
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> > You can choose abridged email or digest email so that you will receive only
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> You can edit your Group Email settings by visiting the following link.
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>  guru.pdf
> 1262KViewDownload

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alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets - 24 new messages in 5 topics - digest

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alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets?hl=en

alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Classic Belichick Quotes on the Draft - 5 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/febf7036472e6cdd?hl=en
* UFA Tanner, Texas - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/c10ce3397f7f2bbe?hl=en
* Was your mother a prostitue ??? - 9 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/2d52929d4377e50e?hl=en
* cowboys draft board leaked - 5 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/4e971eb8bd92bf83?hl=en
* Vlad Ducasse - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/46733be6ada997ab?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Classic Belichick Quotes on the Draft
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/febf7036472e6cdd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 11:47 am
From: Glenn Greenstein


On Apr 27, 7:53 pm, Boy...@BOS001428.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--
so-tickle-me wrote:
> Glenn Greenstein <lexa...@hotmail.com> writes:
> > The reason you are a fan and why you even watch games is to be
> > entertained. the draft and all the little things written and said to
> > fans by the media and the CS is also done pure and simply for
> > entertainment value so it is fair to say that BB is in the
> > entertainment business as much as he is in the pro-football business.
> > I want to be entertained.
>
> How is this true?  Its a coach's job to entertain us with his words?  Is
> it the player's job to do the same when they are being interviewed as
> well?
>
> The thing I want is a very serious football player that is ready to do
> whatever it takes to win on Sunday.  And then, with that, I'm
> entertained.   I'm entertained because of the rawness of the
> competition, not because Chad ocho cinco does something funny after
> catching a ball.
>
> --
> Galen Boyer
>
> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: n...@netfront.net ---

And what you just described is entertaining and I personally am
entertained by that, not when a HC thinks he is so far above everyone
in an ivory tower that he answers a question in a way that makes you
think he thinks everyone in the audience and in the room are so far
beneath him that he can throw you any kind of crumbs and you will say
"Thank you sir, may I have another".


== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 11:49 am
From: Glenn Greenstein


On Apr 28, 8:27 am, "Remy McSwain" <Paradis70...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Innews:KbOdne-BSJ-Q5krWnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@giganews.com,
>
>
>
> MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
> > Marc wrote:
> >> "Nunya Bidnits" <nunyabidn...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote
> >> in messagenews:hr7e4v$k7f$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> >>> "Tutor" <dcat4...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:375f708e-8f61-4263-9522-0191266e6687@l6g2000vbo.googlegroups.com...
> >>> On Apr 26, 12:21 pm, Julio <hoolio3sanc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>> "It was fine. When they schedule them we are there. When it's
> >>>> our turn to pick we'll turn them in. I've done them in one
> >>>> day. I've done them in two days. I've done them in three days.
> >>>> Whatever it is it is...We picked ahead of some teams. We
> >>>> picked behind some teams. We'll see how all that comes
> >>>> together." J.
> >>> He is such a joy to read and listen to <sarcasm mode>. Really,
> >>> why do sports writers even bother him?  When they have
> >>> loquaciuos guys like Herm Edwards, Rex Ryan and so many others
> >>> that can give them what they are looking for.  They should
> >>> just leave BB to his cave. ---------------------
>
> >>> Herm Edwards is coaching again? Where should I send the
> >>> sympathy card? MartyB in KC
>
> >> Personally, I think BB has Asperger's.  Think about it. He has
> >> an obvious discomfort in being around the media; his deadpan
> >> delivery when speaking; a general lack of emotional expression;
> >> and his complete and total obsession and perseverence with
> >> knowing everything there is to know about one thing. That being
> >> said,  I get a kick out of listening to BB talk to
> >> the media. He's a master at stating the obvious.
> >> You can almost hear him infer "Dumbass!" at the end of every
> >> sentence. Who needs animation?
>
> > I don't think he has a discomfort around the media.  I've seen
> > him give a pleasant interview many times.  And sometimes when
> > he's in the middle of being cold at a press conference, someone
> > will ask him something about the history of the game and he goes
> > on for 10 minutes with excitement.  I think he has a disdain for
> > cliche questions more than anything else.
>
> It might be that, but I've always thought that he sees a whole lot
> of reasons why the more he divulges, the more harm can come on many
> levels.  The more meat the media has to play with, the more they'll
> play.
>
> When BB was first hired here, he was called everything in the book,
> including being duplicitous pond scum, and he hadn't even signed his
> contract yet.  He tried to explain why he was leaving NY, but
> because he couldn't get into ALL of the reasons, the media took off
> and ran with it to the point of being well over the top in their
> personal attacks.  I think he's also seen that kind of thing happen
> to players and collegues as well.  So whether it's justified or not,
> I think he's come to the conclusion that there's nothing to be
> gained by trying to explain the benching and suspension of Terry
> Glen, or why a certain player was traded or released, or how he
> feels about a player holdout.
>
> In this case, what's to be gained by saying that he hates the
> current draft format?  You don't think the media would have a field
> day with that one?  You don't think they'd run to the commissioner
> or Kraft and pursue it?  And what if he likes it, and says so?  So
> he gets into a routine where he's forthcoming only when he likes
> something?  By deductive reasoning, it means that the media could
> justifiably deduce that he hates something when he doesn't comment.
>
> I'm not suggesting that he sits there and thinks through all of the
> possible ramifications of each answer he might give to each
> question.  Instead, I'm suggesting that he's lived through how
> seemingly innocuous answers have come back to bite him, and others,
> in the ass in the past, and so he's adopted a general policy of
> simply giving very minimal answers.  Some day, he'll write a book
> about his coaching days, and he'll explain his philosophy on this,
> and I think it'll be extraordinary reading.

Actually he got this from Bill Parcells but there is one difference.
Bill Parcells was entertaining in his pressers


== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 1:20 pm
From: "Remy McSwain"


In
news:33a9ad6a-3768-4717-8d49-d869b45e30c5@e40g2000yqa.googlegroups.com,
Glenn Greenstein <lexa695@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 27, 4:36 pm, "Remy McSwain" <Paradis70...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Innews:1b274216-4270-44b4-878f-a57b7b005787@u31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com,
>>
>>
>>
>> Glenn Greenstein <lexa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Apr 27, 7:32 am, "Remy McSwain" <Paradis70...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Innews:23df228d-7383-4690-9e47-017b729ff514@f6g2000yqa.googlegroups.com,
>>
>>>> Glenn Greenstein <lexa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Apr 27, 7:09 am, "Remy McSwain" <Paradis70...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Innews:4fb53041-ff46-4f3f-8486-efbee3466f71@k33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com,
>>
>>>>>> Glenn Greenstein <lexa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Apr 26, 3:05 pm, "Remy McSwain" <Paradis70...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Innews:375f708e-8f61-4263-9522-0191266e6687@l6g2000vbo.googlegroups.com,
>>
>>>>>>>> Tutor <dcat4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Apr 26, 12:21 pm, Julio <hoolio3sanc...@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> "It was fine. When they schedule them we are there. When
>>>>>>>>>> it's our turn to pick we'll turn them in. I've done them
>>>>>>>>>> in one day. I've done them in two days. I've done them
>>>>>>>>>> in three days. Whatever it is it is...We picked ahead
>>>>>>>>>> of some teams. We picked behind some teams. We'll see
>>>>>>>>>> how all that comes together."
>>
>>>>>>>>>> J.
>>
>>>>>>>>> He is such a joy to read and listen to <sarcasm mode>.
>>>>>>>>> Really, why do sports writers even bother him? When they
>>>>>>>>> have loquaciuos guys like Herm Edwards, Rex Ryan and so
>>>>>>>>> many others that can give them what they are looking for.
>>>>>>>>> They should just leave BB to his cave.
>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not sure why this seems to be such a problem for many
>>>>>>>> fans, especially fans of other teams. I agree that Herm
>>>>>>>> gave the fans what they wanted in terms of animation, but
>>>>>>>> if I were a Jets fan, his loquaciousness would've been
>>>>>>>> most embarrassing to me.
>>
>>>>>>>> I absolutely agree that I would much prefer more
>>>>>>>> informative reactions from BB. However, his MO seems to
>>>>>>>> work well for him, and the team. Hermie is behind a desk,
>>>>>>>> and "so many others' are also long since gone. And RR has
>>>>>>>> only been there for a year.
>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not suggesting that the only way to last is to be much
>>>>>>>> less forth-coming. Walsh was very informative, and we know
>>>>>>>> what his track record was. I'm simply saying that every
>>>>>>>> coach has to do what works for them, and if BBs style
>>>>>>>> works for him, and it means having 3 SB wins, and 4 AFC
>>>>>>>> titles, and being a perennial contending team, then I'll
>>>>>>>> take that over the track record of other teams any day,
>>>>>>>> no matter how loquacious their many coaches have been.
>>
>>>>>>> Remy, what BB said is an insult to everyone intelligence.
>>>>>>> You picked before some teams and after others, you also
>>>>>>> made picks when it was your turn and did it in 1, 2 and
>>>>>>> now 3 days. Wow, someone call the press room and hold the
>>>>>>> back page.
>>
>>>>>> Glenn, anyone with any intelligence, who is also a real fan
>>>>>> of the game, and who also might have a sense of humor
>>>>>> instead of just looking for reasons to personally dislike
>>>>>> an opposing coach, would be amused about the game within
>>>>>> the game that BB plays with the press. And here, I thought
>>>>>> NY fans were thick skinned instead of thin skinned whinners
>>>>>> about how opposing coaches are seeking them out to
>>>>>> personally insult them. (Just kidding Glenn. Life's too
>>>>>> short to take any of this personally).
>>
>>>>> The act is getting old Remy
>>
>>>> That's quite a different matter, Glenn, and I'm not sure has
>>>> any real relevance. Did you really expect him to change his
>>>> spots just for the sake of it over these years? If Rex has
>>>> just as much success and logevity with the Jets as BB has had
>>>> with the Pats, do you really expect Rex to change his schtick
>>>> as well, just to keep things fresh for the fans? C'mon,
>>>> Glenn. Lighten up.
>>
>>> Honestly this is how I feel.
>>> The reason you are a fan and why you even watch games is to be
>>> entertained. the draft and all the little things written and
>>> said to fans by the media and the CS is also done pure and
>>> simply for entertainment value so it is fair to say that BB is
>>> in the entertainment business as much as he is in the
>>> pro-football business. I want to be entertained. This is
>>> basically also the reason I don't care that Cromartie has 7
>>> kids with 6 wives in 5 states. If it does not interfere with
>>> what he does on Sundays 16 or more weeks a year, he can have
>>> another 20 kids with 10 more wives in 2 countries, it really
>>> doesn't matter to me what he does until it effects me
>>> personally and what would effect me is if he doesn't entertain
>>> me on Sundays.
>>> BB was entertaining at one time but now I don't see it. Maybe
>>> it is from suffering with Mangini and having a loose cannon
>>> like Rex in the fold, who knows but it is how I feel.
>>
>> Glenn, I think your train of thought that lead you to believe
>> that it's somehow BB's job to 'entertain' you with his press
>> conferences is terribly flawed. Certainly, the NFL is in the
>> entertainment business. But does that mean that the
>> commissioner should've told jokes or sung a tune with every
>> announcement? After all, that's the natural extension of your
>> logic.
>
> No, that is an exaggeration of what I said. It is possible to be
> entertained in other ways than what you just wrote.

Pick any way that you wish. The bottom line is that a coach has no
more responsibility to be entertaining when he's at the podium that
does the commissioner when he's at his just because the overall
point of the league is entertaining. There are a whole lot of
aspects of the NFL which, when isolated from the whole, are not the
least bit entertaining. Nor should they be.

>> The primary point of the NFL is the entertainment value of the
>> games. The fact that it's so entertaining and intriguing that it
>> stirs conversation, speculation, and curiosity that so many more
>> aspects of the enterprise can also be entertaining is the bonus
>> plan. The fact that the NFL can make a whole lot of money on
>> these ancillary benefits is also a bonus for everyone. But to
>> conclude that the owners, coaches, players, refs, and others
>> owe it to you to provide you with additional entertainment in
>> addition to what they do to put a great product on the field is
>> quite a stretch, at best.
>>
>> That's like saying that a director 'owes' it to you to do any
>> more than direct great films. Certainly, it's great when they
>> provide more. But to be a valid reason for complaint when they
>> don't giver it to you? Not so much, me thinks.

> That has to be one of the worst analogies I ever heard. If a
> director
> does not make entertaining films, he is going to be unemployed
> really
> quickly.

Glenn, that's not the analogy that I made. My point is that just
because he's in the entertainment business, doesn't mean that HE has
got to be entertaining. It only means that he has a job, the goal
of which is to produce something that is entertaining. It's the
coaches job to produce abd or prepare a team to compete to the
maximum of its ability to win a game, and a championship. The logic
that because his job is in the entertainment business, HE has to be
entertaining is simply flawed.

> I would also say it is not an obligation of the
> director to
> be entertaining to the cast while he is doing his job just as I
> don't
> need to entertain anyone at my work place. The goal there is to
> get
> results. BB being a public figure who speaks to the general
> public
> comes of as a condescending asshole who seems more annoyed that
> he has
> to sit up there an answer questions than he does caring about
> what
> people think and if they even care what he says. If you really
> think
> that is what the public wants to hear then I guess I am in the
> minority.

Well, he may very well come off that way to you. But that's
different than saying that it his job to entertain you at those
press conferences.

But as to whether or not he's condescending, I don't perceive that
at all. Maybe it's because I don't have any demands that he provide
me, a fan, with any more information that he wants to provide.
Maybe it's because I understand that, in some cases, he might very
well have justifiable reasons for wanting the public, and his
competition, from knowing more than he wants them to know. Or maybe
it's because I'm just not thinned skinned. I really don't know.
But after observing the guy for many years, including many
appearances on WEEI wherein he's very informative, I don't see the
condescension at all. Maybe you're thinking of the other BB (Brian
Billick) :-)


>> However, you're entitled to your expectations, and entitled to
>> complain when they're not met. IMO, I just don't think your
>> reasons have very much merit, is all.
>
> Just as I think your argument to that is pretty poor.

Fair enough.


== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 1:27 pm
From: "Remy McSwain"


In
news:6919f352-1657-45d4-bedc-62a3877a6c77@i10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com,
Glenn Greenstein <lexa695@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 27, 7:53 pm,
> Boy...@BOS001428.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address-- so-tickle-me
> wrote:
>> Glenn Greenstein <lexa...@hotmail.com> writes:
>>> The reason you are a fan and why you even watch games is to be
>>> entertained. the draft and all the little things written and
>>> said to fans by the media and the CS is also done pure and
>>> simply for entertainment value so it is fair to say that BB is
>>> in the entertainment business as much as he is in the
>>> pro-football business. I want to be entertained.
>>
>> How is this true? Its a coach's job to entertain us with his
>> words? Is it the player's job to do the same when they are
>> being interviewed as well?
>>
>> The thing I want is a very serious football player that is
>> ready to do whatever it takes to win on Sunday. And then, with
>> that, I'm entertained. I'm entertained because of the rawness
>> of the competition, not because Chad ocho cinco does something
>> funny after catching a ball.
>>
>> --
>> Galen Boyer
>>
>> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints:
>> n...@netfront.net ---
>
> And what you just described is entertaining and I personally am
> entertained by that, not when a HC thinks he is so far above
> everyone in an ivory tower that he answers a question in a way
> that makes you think he thinks everyone in the audience and in
> the room are so far beneath him that he can throw you any kind
> of crumbs and you will say "Thank you sir, may I have another".

WOW! I have a feeling that you're very easily offended. The fact
that he doesn't want the public to know more than he does may well
be for many different reasons. Why would you assume that it's
because he thinks he's above everyone else?


== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 1:38 pm
From: "Remy McSwain"


In
news:8d4dd393-8fc0-4ee9-b1a3-fc6f62e9efd3@r34g2000yqj.googlegroups.com,
Glenn Greenstein <lexa695@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 28, 8:27 am, "Remy McSwain" <Paradis70...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Innews:KbOdne-BSJ-Q5krWnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@giganews.com,
>>
>>
>>
>> MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>>> Marc wrote:
>>>> "Nunya Bidnits" <nunyabidn...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote
>>>> in messagenews:hr7e4v$k7f$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> "Tutor" <dcat4...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:375f708e-8f61-4263-9522-0191266e6687@l6g2000vbo.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Apr 26, 12:21 pm, Julio <hoolio3sanc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "It was fine. When they schedule them we are there. When
>>>>>> it's our turn to pick we'll turn them in. I've done them in
>>>>>> one day. I've done them in two days. I've done them in
>>>>>> three days. Whatever it is it is...We picked ahead of some
>>>>>> teams. We picked behind some teams. We'll see how all that
>>>>>> comes together." J.
>>>>> He is such a joy to read and listen to <sarcasm mode>.
>>>>> Really, why do sports writers even bother him? When they have
>>>>> loquaciuos guys like Herm Edwards, Rex Ryan and so many
>>>>> others that can give them what they are looking for. They
>>>>> should just leave BB to his cave. ---------------------
>>
>>>>> Herm Edwards is coaching again? Where should I send the
>>>>> sympathy card? MartyB in KC
>>
>>>> Personally, I think BB has Asperger's. Think about it. He has
>>>> an obvious discomfort in being around the media; his deadpan
>>>> delivery when speaking; a general lack of emotional
>>>> expression; and his complete and total obsession and
>>>> perseverence with knowing everything there is to know about
>>>> one thing. That being said, I get a kick out of listening to
>>>> BB talk to
>>>> the media. He's a master at stating the obvious.
>>>> You can almost hear him infer "Dumbass!" at the end of every
>>>> sentence. Who needs animation?
>>
>>> I don't think he has a discomfort around the media. I've seen
>>> him give a pleasant interview many times. And sometimes when
>>> he's in the middle of being cold at a press conference, someone
>>> will ask him something about the history of the game and he
>>> goes on for 10 minutes with excitement. I think he has a
>>> disdain for cliche questions more than anything else.
>>
>> It might be that, but I've always thought that he sees a whole
>> lot of reasons why the more he divulges, the more harm can come
>> on many levels. The more meat the media has to play with, the
>> more they'll play.
>>
>> When BB was first hired here, he was called everything in the
>> book, including being duplicitous pond scum, and he hadn't even
>> signed his contract yet. He tried to explain why he was leaving
>> NY, but because he couldn't get into ALL of the reasons, the
>> media took off and ran with it to the point of being well over
>> the top in their personal attacks. I think he's also seen that
>> kind of thing happen to players and collegues as well. So
>> whether it's justified or not, I think he's come to the
>> conclusion that there's nothing to be gained by trying to
>> explain the benching and suspension of Terry Glen, or why a
>> certain player was traded or released, or how he feels about a
>> player holdout.
>>
>> In this case, what's to be gained by saying that he hates the
>> current draft format? You don't think the media would have a
>> field day with that one? You don't think they'd run to the
>> commissioner or Kraft and pursue it? And what if he likes it,
>> and says so? So
>> he gets into a routine where he's forthcoming only when he likes
>> something? By deductive reasoning, it means that the media could
>> justifiably deduce that he hates something when he doesn't
>> comment.
>>
>> I'm not suggesting that he sits there and thinks through all of
>> the possible ramifications of each answer he might give to each
>> question. Instead, I'm suggesting that he's lived through how
>> seemingly innocuous answers have come back to bite him, and
>> others, in the ass in the past, and so he's adopted a general
>> policy of simply giving very minimal answers. Some day, he'll
>> write a book about his coaching days, and he'll explain his
>> philosophy on this, and I think it'll be extraordinary reading.
>
> Actually he got this from Bill Parcells but there is one
> difference. Bill Parcells was entertaining in his pressers

Yes, BP WAS much more entertaining at his pressers, but if arrogance
is your issue, I think BP was a whole lot more arrogant than BB.
The whole 'groceries' speech was a sham, and he regularly treated
reporters like they were dirt just for asking the kinds of questions
that all of us had on our minds.

We can argue that all we like except that in the end, I want a coach
who can deliver SB championships to the team I follow, and BB gave
us 3 of those. And if part of the reason is that he's got greater
peace of mind knowing that he's safe behind the curtain, then he can
hide as much as he wants behind there for all that I care. Lat I
checked, his job was HC, not orator.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: UFA Tanner, Texas
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/c10ce3397f7f2bbe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 11:54 am
From: Michael


On Apr 27, 10:24 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 15:35:18 -0700 (PDT), Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Apr 27, 3:51 pm, Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
> >> A buddy I trust claims this kid from Texas might have some value.  He
> >> was also academic All Big 12 as well.  When was the last time we found
> >> an OL as a UFA?
>
> >>http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=1707
>
> >> Thus far unheralded offensive lineman Charlie Tanner has turned in a
> >> terrific workout.  Tanner started the day by completing 35 reps on the
> >> bench, posted a vertical jump of 36 inches then ran his 40 in times as
> >> fast as 5.06 seconds.  His official average times for the two runs will
> >> be in the range of 5.12 seconds.  His ten yard split was 1.72 seconds.
> >> Tanner's short shuttle time was also a very solid 4.55 seconds.
>
> >> 04/01/2010 - PRO DAY RESULTS: 79 scouts and coaches representing 30
> >> teams (the Rams and Lions were the only two not represented), including
> >> three head coaches, came together to watch. G Charlie Tanner (6-3 7/8,
> >> 305) ran 5.20 and 5.12 in the 40. Tanner posted a 36-inch vertical jump,
> >> a 9-foot, 3-inch broad jump and a 4.38-second short shuttle ??? all
> >> numbers that would have put him in the top-10 amongst offensive linemen
> >> at the combine. His vertical jump would have beaten out Oklahoma T Trent
> >> Williams' top mark of 34 1/2 inches, while his 4.38-second short shuttle
> >> would have shattered the best mark at the combine ??? a time of 4.51
> >> second set by Arizona State OL Shawn Lauvao. Combined with a 5.20 and
> >> 5.12 in the 40, Tanner certainly helped his stock Wednesday. - Gil
> >> Brandt, NFL.com
>
> >any idea how long his arms are ?
>
> Lot about arms lately, M... whatever happened to the fascination about necks (or lack
> thereof)?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

lots about arms follows lots about offensive line prospects which in
turn follows who can play guard vs. who can play on the outside.

if i was jeff ireland i guess may be i could ask about the length of
his johnson


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 5:01 pm
From: Harlan Lachman


In article <htidncyNQuCy3UrWnZ2dnUVZ_qOdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
Johnctx <jc@spamtx.net> wrote:

> A buddy I trust claims this kid from Texas might have some value. He
> was also academic All Big 12 as well. When was the last time we found
> an OL as a UFA?
>
> http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=1707
>
> Thus far unheralded offensive lineman Charlie Tanner has turned in a
> terrific workout. Tanner started the day by completing 35 reps on the
> bench, posted a vertical jump of 36 inches then ran his 40 in times as
> fast as 5.06 seconds. His official average times for the two runs will
> be in the range of 5.12 seconds. His ten yard split was 1.72 seconds.
> Tanner¹s short shuttle time was also a very solid 4.55 seconds.
>
> 04/01/2010 - PRO DAY RESULTS: 79 scouts and coaches representing 30
> teams (the Rams and Lions were the only two not represented), including
> three head coaches, came together to watch. G Charlie Tanner (6-3 7/8,
> 305) ran 5.20 and 5.12 in the 40. Tanner posted a 36-inch vertical jump,
> a 9-foot, 3-inch broad jump and a 4.38-second short shuttle ??? all
> numbers that would have put him in the top-10 amongst offensive linemen
> at the combine. His vertical jump would have beaten out Oklahoma T Trent
> Williams' top mark of 34 1/2 inches, while his 4.38-second short shuttle
> would have shattered the best mark at the combine ??? a time of 4.51
> second set by Arizona State OL Shawn Lauvao. Combined with a 5.20 and
> 5.12 in the 40, Tanner certainly helped his stock Wednesday. - Gil
> Brandt, NFL.com

But since even though they had Colt McCoy and Shipley they could not run
the ball, likely not.

Harlan


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 9:15 pm
From: buRford


On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 08:33:17 -0500, Johnctx <jc@spamtx.net> wrote:

>buRford wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 07:57:59 -0500, Johnctx <jc@spamtx.net> wrote:
>>
>>> buRford wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 15:35:18 -0700 (PDT), Michael <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 27, 3:51 pm, Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
>>>>>> A buddy I trust claims this kid from Texas might have some value. He
>>>>>> was also academic All Big 12 as well. When was the last time we found
>>>>>> an OL as a UFA?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=1707
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thus far unheralded offensive lineman Charlie Tanner has turned in a
>>>>>> terrific workout. Tanner started the day by completing 35 reps on the
>>>>>> bench, posted a vertical jump of 36 inches then ran his 40 in times as
>>>>>> fast as 5.06 seconds. His official average times for the two runs will
>>>>>> be in the range of 5.12 seconds. His ten yard split was 1.72 seconds.
>>>>>> Tanner's short shuttle time was also a very solid 4.55 seconds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 04/01/2010 - PRO DAY RESULTS: 79 scouts and coaches representing 30
>>>>>> teams (the Rams and Lions were the only two not represented), including
>>>>>> three head coaches, came together to watch. G Charlie Tanner (6-3 7/8,
>>>>>> 305) ran 5.20 and 5.12 in the 40. Tanner posted a 36-inch vertical jump,
>>>>>> a 9-foot, 3-inch broad jump and a 4.38-second short shuttle ??? all
>>>>>> numbers that would have put him in the top-10 amongst offensive linemen
>>>>>> at the combine. His vertical jump would have beaten out Oklahoma T Trent
>>>>>> Williams' top mark of 34 1/2 inches, while his 4.38-second short shuttle
>>>>>> would have shattered the best mark at the combine ??? a time of 4.51
>>>>>> second set by Arizona State OL Shawn Lauvao. Combined with a 5.20 and
>>>>>> 5.12 in the 40, Tanner certainly helped his stock Wednesday. - Gil
>>>>>> Brandt, NFL.com
>>>>> any idea how long his arms are ?
>>>> Lot about arms lately, M... whatever happened to the fascination about necks (or lack
>>>> thereof)?
>>> Update, his arms are too short to box with God.
>>
>> I thought I was the only one who remembered that play ;)
>
>I am not the Neanderthal I project. This morning I even got out of the
>shower & then took a leak.


I'm horrified you'd think in terms of Neanderthal.
Cro-Magnon maybe, but never Neanderthal ;)


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 9:16 pm
From: buRford


On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 11:54:10 -0700 (PDT), Michael <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Apr 27, 10:24 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 15:35:18 -0700 (PDT), Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >On Apr 27, 3:51 pm, Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
>> >> A buddy I trust claims this kid from Texas might have some value.  He
>> >> was also academic All Big 12 as well.  When was the last time we found
>> >> an OL as a UFA?
>>
>> >>http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=1707
>>
>> >> Thus far unheralded offensive lineman Charlie Tanner has turned in a
>> >> terrific workout.  Tanner started the day by completing 35 reps on the
>> >> bench, posted a vertical jump of 36 inches then ran his 40 in times as
>> >> fast as 5.06 seconds.  His official average times for the two runs will
>> >> be in the range of 5.12 seconds.  His ten yard split was 1.72 seconds.
>> >> Tanner's short shuttle time was also a very solid 4.55 seconds.
>>
>> >> 04/01/2010 - PRO DAY RESULTS: 79 scouts and coaches representing 30
>> >> teams (the Rams and Lions were the only two not represented), including
>> >> three head coaches, came together to watch. G Charlie Tanner (6-3 7/8,
>> >> 305) ran 5.20 and 5.12 in the 40. Tanner posted a 36-inch vertical jump,
>> >> a 9-foot, 3-inch broad jump and a 4.38-second short shuttle ??? all
>> >> numbers that would have put him in the top-10 amongst offensive linemen
>> >> at the combine. His vertical jump would have beaten out Oklahoma T Trent
>> >> Williams' top mark of 34 1/2 inches, while his 4.38-second short shuttle
>> >> would have shattered the best mark at the combine ??? a time of 4.51
>> >> second set by Arizona State OL Shawn Lauvao. Combined with a 5.20 and
>> >> 5.12 in the 40, Tanner certainly helped his stock Wednesday. - Gil
>> >> Brandt, NFL.com
>>
>> >any idea how long his arms are ?
>>
>> Lot about arms lately, M... whatever happened to the fascination about necks (or lack
>> thereof)?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>lots about arms follows lots about offensive line prospects which in
>turn follows who can play guard vs. who can play on the outside.
>
>if i was jeff ireland i guess may be i could ask about the length of
>his johnson

Is he related to Woody?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Was your mother a prostitue ???
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/2d52929d4377e50e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 12:08 pm
From: Johnctx


MZ wrote:
> Michael wrote:
>> Good question ???
>
> Goodell loves throwing punishment around. Is there a fine in Ireland's
> future?

After 800 years of oppression by England hasn't Ireland suffered enough?

Oh, never mind.....


== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 12:52 pm
From: Michael


On Apr 28, 3:08 pm, Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
> MZ wrote:
> > Michael wrote:
> >> Good question ???
>
> > Goodell loves throwing punishment around.  Is there a fine in Ireland's
> > future?
>
> After 800 years of oppression by England hasn't Ireland suffered enough?
>
> Oh, never mind.....

The current Commish is Goodell not Cromwell


== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 1:20 pm
From: Tutor


On Apr 28, 12:22 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Good question ???

Ireland was just trying to find out if Dez had anything in common with
the large majority of Dolphin fans.

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 2:03 pm
From: Johnctx


Tutor wrote:
> On Apr 28, 12:22 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Good question ???
>
> Ireland was just trying to find out if Dez had anything in common with
> the large majority of Dolphin fans.
>

You are only a prostitute if you are paid.


== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 5:10 pm
From: Harlan Lachman


In article
<9a53075d-cb54-419d-ac91-00d3c092457f@v37g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>,
Michael <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Apr 28, 2:40 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
> > Michael wrote:
> > > Good question ???
> >
> > Goodell loves throwing punishment around.  Is there a fine in Ireland's
> > future?
>
> this one is gonna be interesting... how can it be determined that
> ireland was out of line ??? after all.. what did old bill parcells
> say ??? what do you get when you squeez and orange. you could make a
> case that it was a legit tactic to see how a questionable guy will act
> when provoked.

Michael, if Goodell is not a complete idiot it is easy.

He can compare this question to the HR policies of any major
organization or company. It would not be allowed.

More importantly, I thought the Fish were planning to draft Dez himself,
not his mother. Questions about his Mom or immediate family have no
relevance to an interview.

If his mom were interviewing for a job, there is a way to ask the
question. How is his Mom's drug use, sex life, or business supposed to
influence a grown man?

Give him a personality test if one wants but this was offensive.

And, Ireland deserves a suspension and fine for this or there is truly a
double standard.

harlan


== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 6:32 pm
From: Michael


On Apr 28, 8:10 pm, Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com> wrote:
> In article
> <9a53075d-cb54-419d-ac91-00d3c0924...@v37g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>,
>
>  Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > On Apr 28, 2:40 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
> > > Michael wrote:
> > > > Good question ???
>
> > > Goodell loves throwing punishment around.  Is there a fine in Ireland's
> > > future?
>
> > this one is gonna be interesting... how can it be determined that
> > ireland was out of line ???  after all.. what did old bill parcells
> > say ??? what do you get when you squeez and orange.  you could make a
> > case that it was a legit tactic to see how a questionable guy will act
> > when provoked.
>
> Michael, if Goodell is not a complete idiot it is easy.
>
> He can compare this question to the HR policies of any major
> organization or company. It would not be allowed.
>
> More importantly, I thought the Fish were planning to draft Dez himself,
> not his mother. Questions about his Mom or immediate family have no
> relevance to an interview.
>
> If his mom were interviewing for a job, there is a way to ask the
> question. How is his Mom's drug use, sex life, or business supposed to
> influence a grown man?
>
> Give him a personality test if one wants but this was offensive.
>
> And, Ireland deserves a suspension and fine for this or there is truly a
> double standard.
>
> harlan

ok.... when a coach or player uses profanity at practice or on the
sidelines/field during a game, can Goodell fine them ??? Lots of
people find profanity offensive. What about when Tuna calls Kerry
Glenn "she". Should he be fined ??? What about trash talk on the
field ??? Fine Ray Lewis for trying to intimidate other players ???


== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 6:41 pm
From: MZ


Michael wrote:
> On Apr 28, 8:10 pm, Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com> wrote:
>> In article
>> <9a53075d-cb54-419d-ac91-00d3c0924...@v37g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> On Apr 28, 2:40 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>>>> Michael wrote:
>>>>> Good question ???
>>>> Goodell loves throwing punishment around. Is there a fine in Ireland's
>>>> future?
>>> this one is gonna be interesting... how can it be determined that
>>> ireland was out of line ??? after all.. what did old bill parcells
>>> say ??? what do you get when you squeez and orange. you could make a
>>> case that it was a legit tactic to see how a questionable guy will act
>>> when provoked.
>> Michael, if Goodell is not a complete idiot it is easy.
>>
>> He can compare this question to the HR policies of any major
>> organization or company. It would not be allowed.
>>
>> More importantly, I thought the Fish were planning to draft Dez himself,
>> not his mother. Questions about his Mom or immediate family have no
>> relevance to an interview.
>>
>> If his mom were interviewing for a job, there is a way to ask the
>> question. How is his Mom's drug use, sex life, or business supposed to
>> influence a grown man?
>>
>> Give him a personality test if one wants but this was offensive.
>>
>> And, Ireland deserves a suspension and fine for this or there is truly a
>> double standard.
>>
>> harlan
>
> ok.... when a coach or player uses profanity at practice or on the
> sidelines/field during a game, can Goodell fine them ??? Lots of
> people find profanity offensive. What about when Tuna calls Kerry
> Glenn "she". Should he be fined ??? What about trash talk on the
> field ??? Fine Ray Lewis for trying to intimidate other players ???

FWIW, Dez wasn't a member of the Miami Dolphins, or the NFL for that matter.

I'm not saying I support a fine, BTW. I just think since the NFL has a
stick up its ass about its "image", it would be consistent to fine him
for this.


== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 8:17 pm
From: Michael


On Apr 28, 9:41 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
> Michael wrote:
> > On Apr 28, 8:10 pm, Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com> wrote:
> >> In article
> >> <9a53075d-cb54-419d-ac91-00d3c0924...@v37g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>,
>
> >>  Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>> On Apr 28, 2:40 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
> >>>> Michael wrote:
> >>>>> Good question ???
> >>>> Goodell loves throwing punishment around.  Is there a fine in Ireland's
> >>>> future?
> >>> this one is gonna be interesting... how can it be determined that
> >>> ireland was out of line ???  after all.. what did old bill parcells
> >>> say ??? what do you get when you squeez and orange.  you could make a
> >>> case that it was a legit tactic to see how a questionable guy will act
> >>> when provoked.
> >> Michael, if Goodell is not a complete idiot it is easy.
>
> >> He can compare this question to the HR policies of any major
> >> organization or company. It would not be allowed.
>
> >> More importantly, I thought the Fish were planning to draft Dez himself,
> >> not his mother. Questions about his Mom or immediate family have no
> >> relevance to an interview.
>
> >> If his mom were interviewing for a job, there is a way to ask the
> >> question. How is his Mom's drug use, sex life, or business supposed to
> >> influence a grown man?
>
> >> Give him a personality test if one wants but this was offensive.
>
> >> And, Ireland deserves a suspension and fine for this or there is truly a
> >> double standard.
>
> >> harlan
>
> > ok.... when a coach or player uses profanity at practice or on the
> > sidelines/field during a game, can Goodell fine them ??? Lots of
> > people find profanity offensive.  What about when Tuna calls Kerry
> > Glenn "she".    Should he be fined ??? What about trash talk on the
> > field ??? Fine Ray Lewis for trying to intimidate other players ???
>
> FWIW, Dez wasn't a member of the Miami Dolphins, or the NFL for that matter.
>
> I'm not saying I support a fine, BTW.  I just think since the NFL has a
> stick up its ass about its "image", it would be consistent to fine him
> for this.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

i'd favor a fine if ireland tried to sexually assault dez


== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 8:32 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"Harlan Lachman" <harlan@eeivt.com> wrote in message
news:harlan-45083D.20101528042010@news60.forteinc.com...
> In article
> <9a53075d-cb54-419d-ac91-00d3c092457f@v37g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>,
> Michael <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> On Apr 28, 2:40 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>> > Michael wrote:
>> > > Good question ???
>> >
>> > Goodell loves throwing punishment around. Is there a fine in Ireland's
>> > future?
>>
>> this one is gonna be interesting... how can it be determined that
>> ireland was out of line ??? after all.. what did old bill parcells
>> say ??? what do you get when you squeez and orange. you could make a
>> case that it was a legit tactic to see how a questionable guy will act
>> when provoked.
>
> Michael, if Goodell is not a complete idiot it is easy.
>
> He can compare this question to the HR policies of any major
> organization or company. It would not be allowed.
>
> More importantly, I thought the Fish were planning to draft Dez himself,
> not his mother. Questions about his Mom or immediate family have no
> relevance to an interview.
>
> If his mom were interviewing for a job, there is a way to ask the
> question. How is his Mom's drug use, sex life, or business supposed to
> influence a grown man?
>
> Give him a personality test if one wants but this was offensive.
>
> And, Ireland deserves a suspension and fine for this or there is truly a
> double standard.
>
> harlan

Dead on...and if somebody in a really decent corporation did this...they
would get fired. Ireland should get the axe. Period.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: cowboys draft board leaked
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/4e971eb8bd92bf83?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 3:39 pm
From: MZ


http://dallascowboystimes.com/2010/04/cowboys-war-room-pictures-the-draft-board/

Thanks to our friends at Cowboys Zone, we acquired two pictures of the
Cowboys' Draft War Room. The second of these provides an up-close
glimpse of the Cowboys' draft board. Below is a list of the names we
were able to decipher, along with the round and order in which the
Cowboys graded that prospect. Note that, due to the positioning of
Jerry's arm in the photo and the ineligibility of some of the names,
this is not a comprehensive list.


== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 4:10 pm
From: Johnctx


MZ wrote:
> http://dallascowboystimes.com/2010/04/cowboys-war-room-pictures-the-draft-board/
>
>
> Thanks to our friends at Cowboys Zone, we acquired two pictures of the
> Cowboys' Draft War Room. The second of these provides an up-close
> glimpse of the Cowboys' draft board. Below is a list of the names we
> were able to decipher, along with the round and order in which the
> Cowboys graded that prospect. Note that, due to the positioning of
> Jerry's arm in the photo and the ineligibility of some of the names,
> this is not a comprehensive list.

I wonder if any team has their video guy watching the draft in hope of
catching something like this?

Also I don't know if it means anything but Dallas & the Jets had Wilson
rated over Devin McCourty & Kareem Jackson.


== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 4:12 pm
From: MZ


Johnctx wrote:
> MZ wrote:
>> http://dallascowboystimes.com/2010/04/cowboys-war-room-pictures-the-draft-board/
>>
>>
>> Thanks to our friends at Cowboys Zone, we acquired two pictures of the
>> Cowboys' Draft War Room. The second of these provides an up-close
>> glimpse of the Cowboys' draft board. Below is a list of the names we
>> were able to decipher, along with the round and order in which the
>> Cowboys graded that prospect. Note that, due to the positioning of
>> Jerry's arm in the photo and the ineligibility of some of the names,
>> this is not a comprehensive list.
>
> I wonder if any team has their video guy watching the draft in hope of
> catching something like this?
>
> Also I don't know if it means anything but Dallas & the Jets had Wilson
> rated over Devin McCourty & Kareem Jackson.

We know Dallas did. The Jets did too? How do you know that?


== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 9:11 pm
From: Tutor


On Apr 28, 6:39 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
> http://dallascowboystimes.com/2010/04/cowboys-war-room-pictures-the-d...
>
> Thanks to our friends at Cowboys Zone, we acquired two pictures of the
> Cowboys' Draft War Room.  The second of these provides an up-close
> glimpse of the Cowboys' draft board.  Below is a list of the names we
> were able to decipher, along with the round and order in which the
> Cowboys graded that prospect.  Note that, due to the positioning of
> Jerry's arm in the photo and the ineligibility of some of the names,
> this is not a comprehensive list.

If you want pictures of it all, including Jerry Jones and Phillips in
front of the Cowboy draft boards, it's all in this thread:

http://jetsinsider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212614


== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 9:13 pm
From: Tutor


On Apr 29, 12:11 am, Tutor <dcat4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 28, 6:39 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>
> >http://dallascowboystimes.com/2010/04/cowboys-war-room-pictures-the-d...
>
> > Thanks to our friends at Cowboys Zone, we acquired two pictures of the
> > Cowboys' Draft War Room.  The second of these provides an up-close
> > glimpse of the Cowboys' draft board.  Below is a list of the names we
> > were able to decipher, along with the round and order in which the
> > Cowboys graded that prospect.  Note that, due to the positioning of
> > Jerry's arm in the photo and the ineligibility of some of the names,
> > this is not a comprehensive list.
>
> If you want pictures of it all, including Jerry Jones and Phillips in
> front of the Cowboy draft boards, it's all in this thread:
>
> http://jetsinsider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212614

Wilson #18 overall
Ducasse near the top of the 4th rd
McKnight 3rd rounder
Conner 4th rounder

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Vlad Ducasse
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/46733be6ada997ab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 9:21 pm
From: Tutor


I had to share this with youze usenet Neanderthals:

psoted today on a real messageboard :)

Vlad Ducasse

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Fellow Jet Fans

First post here but I am a long time follower of the forum. I just
wanted to give everyone some background info on Big Vladdy Ducasse, my
high school football team mate for three years.

I was a defensive linemen, the captain of Stamford High School the
year after Vlad graduated. Luckily being a D-linemen I always had to
go against him in practice. Let me start off by saying that he is one
of the most massive people I have ever seen. His arm span is immense
and his thighs are like tree trunks. Perfect body type for an
offensive linemen. Needless to say I was tossed around like a rag dog
for two years, despite being one of the larger people on the team. I
do believe that I pancaked him once and proceeded to "teabag" him as
we like to call it. Im not going to mention that he tripped over
something because it was one of my finer moments.

Vlad came here when he was a freshman in high school from Haiti,
encouraged by his father. His mother passed away when he was younger.
Accompanied only by his older brother MacArthur, Vlad was thrown into
American society with little knowledge of English. He was spotted by
our head coach Kevin Jones in the hallway who encouraged him to play.
Vladdy agreed and immediately starting learning the game and became a
dominant force.

I know of few people who are more driven and motivated than him. He
was always the first one in the weight room and the last one to leave.
He gets straight As in school, and is not much of a partier (we wont
be having any Roethlisbergeresque problems with Vlad). My best friend
Brian started on the O-line with him at Stamford High and UMass
(hopefully the Jets will draft him too!), and tells me absurd stories
from the weight room about what Vlad is putting up on squat and bench.
But most importantly he is such a genuinely nice person. All of his
former teammates and friends have said that this couldn't happen to a
nicer person and its true. I have never heard him say anything
negative about another person. He plans on using his money from the
NFL to help out his family in Haiti as well as the local community. He
has had a road tougher than most of us can imagine but he made the
most of it. Lets hope he is a career long Jet!

J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS!!!

and on a side note our other team mate and Vlad's good friend Alex
Joseph was just picked up by the Packers. He is on Vlad's right hand
side in the beginning of the following video. The video shows some of
our team mates and coaches celebrating in Stamford


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RJBxRN3Jxg


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rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 3 topics - digest

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rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* BMC Tour wildcard in jeopardy? - 12 messages, 10 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/907a2cadcdd5724c?hl=en
* Liz Hatch wins!! - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c4e91f66ac85fd2f?hl=en
* The Hippodrome in Paris Sucks - The Fatty Master Travelogue - 9 messages, 6
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c8a92c0d28caaa75?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: BMC Tour wildcard in jeopardy?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/907a2cadcdd5724c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 12 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 27 2010 9:03 pm
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd


On Apr 27, 8:07 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article
> <926d228d-5c22-4b8d-8ed9-d779c75d5...@r21g2000prr.googlegroups.com>,
>  Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 27, 12:52 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Apr 27, 1:26 pm, "Fred on a stick"
>
> > > <anonymous.cow...@address.invalid> wrote:
> > > > Scott wrote:
> > > > > On Apr 27, 11:31 am, bar <barbari...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> It damn well should be ...
>
> > > > >>http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/sport/Third_BMC_cyclist_suspended_for_dop...
>
> > > > >> Cadel should be calling Lotto or Lefevre looking for a July ride ...
>
> > > > > If you're going to DQ every team who has some low level rider trying
> > > > > to dope his way to the top, you'll end up with the first ever masters-
> > > > > fatties TdF, and even then it'll be hard to find 20 teams with no one
> > > > > doping.
>
> > > > The solution isn't hard. Sporting penalties for sporting violations.
>
> > > Ah, but it is hard, grasshopper.  They have sporting penalties, and
> > > they don't seem to work.  Even criminal penalties for sporting
> > > violations don't seem to work.
>
> > We don't really have sporting penalties.  We have suspensions,
> > which are not the same thing, and involve a long drawn out
> > process that is too similar to a legal process.  Fredchung's point
> > (I think) is that we treat doping like a moral violation, as opposed
> > to treating it like an ordinary sporting foul.
>
> > Suppose we just did the equivalent of awarding penalty kicks.
> > Rather than have the whole expensive apparatus of A and B samples,
> > legal appeals, excuses and arguments about contaminated
> > supplements and so on, when somebody gets popped, kick
> > them out of the race and dock all their teammates 5 minutes
> > (or some similar penalty).  But let them race again (maybe
> > let them sit for two weeks, as is done with 50% HCT violations).
>
> > You don't need appeals because the penalty is less severe
> > (note that hardly anyone appeals penalty kicks or 50% HCT "rests").
> > Use the money that is saved by doing away with the quasi-judicial
> > sporting apparatus to run more tests.  You deter behavior
> > by making the chance of getting caught greater, not by making
> > the penalty more severe.
>
> > This is the opposite of the idea that we should ban dopers
> > for life.  Everybody who thinks that is a great idea fails to
> > realize that because the penalty is so severe, it will be subject
> > to so many appeals that it will be useless, athletes will get
> > cleared by national feds on questionable grounds, and so on.
>
> The penalty isn't useless. The proportion of riders who fail their A-B
> samples and serve a long suspension is very high. I think we can still
> number the amount of on-appeal victories that stuck on one hand. Appeals
> have mostly served to enrich legal counsel. How many riders have even
> appealed the process beyond the first level, more or less? Tyler and the
> lapsarian Mennonite were prominent English-language examples, but I
> don't there were a lot of lesser lights who went the whole nine yards,
> complete with "I'm innocent" books and legal-fundraising tours. But I
> hope those two don't miss a trick, and do treat us to "If I did it"
> books shortly. (Okay, Heras did appeal, but did he do a speaking tour?)


Is the point of the strong penalty vengeance, or deterrence?

If it's vengeance, than the penalty isn't useless.
However, I took it that the point of the penalty is deterrence,
since that's what everybody involved in the anti-doping
enterprise says (while thinking of the children).

In that case, it's useless. Do you seriously think there are
any pro cyclists out there who think to themselves, "I was
going to dope, but now that the penalty is _two_ years
instead of one I better not?" Only Lafferty actually thinks
we've got the dopers on the run.

(I think HCT and the EPO tests have mitigated the competitive
advantage of doping by making it less effective, in a
Mr. 49% vs. Mr. 60% sort of way, but I don't have any reason
to think the percentage of riders who partake of some sort
of dope is lower.)

> a lot of the people we rubbish as having gotten away with it here have
> served "only" 6-18 months* due to "lenient" treatment. Unless you think
> WADA and the other vampires are not nailing highly probable dopers that
> they have the goods on. Do you?
>
> There is the other class, which is broadly the Operation Puertists and
> whatnot, where you get this long, ugly investigation, lots of "Valv.
> Pitti" suggestions, riders getting uninvited to Le Tour, and
> then...nothing.
>
> I don't think sporting violations are likely to help. The obvious reason
> for strict penalties is that the chance of getting popped is very much
> less than 100%. Therefore, the UCI and WADA and all the other alphabet
> soups are fairly rationally trying to re-balance the game-theoretical
> Expected Value of doping.
>
> Team-wide penalties, whether you call them "sporting" or not, are
> virtually part of the landscape now. Since your Tour invitation partly
> hinges on not having too many riders popped by WADA, there is a
> substantial incentive for teams to police their own riders, or at least
> to dissuade them from easily-caught methods.
>
> I think there might be a differential effect on the kind of riders who
> choose to dope in the present system, but I haven't thought it through
> yet.
>
> In short, I think we're relatively close to a collective, sporting
> penalties outcome, though of course biased to extra-punish the actual
> doper. We also may be too early in the Bio-passport era to know if it
> will effectively inhibit doping.

I think you're missing the point. Multiplying chance of getting
popped by penalty to get a game-theoretical Expected Value of
doping is Lehman-Brothers math, because human beings
have demonstrated a non-linear perception of risk. AFAIK,
criminology research generally shows that deterrence is
achieved by increasing the chance of getting caught, not by
increasing the penalty. (It was BART who brought this up
in rbr as relevant to anti-doping policy.)

This is why I think we should junk the current expensive
boondoggle quasi-judicial system and spend the money
on running more tests - perhaps especially more out of
competition tests. Junking the system means no appeals.
As you noted, hardly anybody wins appeals, but having a
no appeal system with severe penalties offends many
sensibilities, which is another reason to have more small
penalties than few large ones.

The current system where Tour invitations may or may not
depend on freedom from doping infractions and the ASO's
need for publicity and star value, is only marginally set up
to make teams police riders. It's actually set up for teams
to value plausible deniability more than anything, so they
can tell the riders they need results but cut them loose as
soon as possible if necessary. So the riders contract with
Dr. Fuentes on their own rather than having Manolo Saiz
set it up for them. And people say there is no such thing
as progress!

Fredmaster Ben
AKA riding-dirty.com


== 2 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 2:09 am
From: Ted van de Weteringe


Fredmaster of Brainerd schreef:
> We don't really have sporting penalties. We have suspensions,
> which are not the same thing, and involve a long drawn out
> process that is too similar to a legal process. Fredchung's point
> (I think) is that we treat doping like a moral violation, as opposed
> to treating it like an ordinary sporting foul.
>
> Suppose we just did the equivalent of awarding penalty kicks.
> Rather than have the whole expensive apparatus of A and B samples,
> legal appeals, excuses and arguments about contaminated
> supplements and so on, when somebody gets popped, kick
> them out of the race and dock all their teammates 5 minutes
> (or some similar penalty). But let them race again (maybe
> let them sit for two weeks, as is done with 50% HCT violations).
>
> You don't need appeals because the penalty is less severe
> (note that hardly anyone appeals penalty kicks or 50% HCT "rests").
> Use the money that is saved by doing away with the quasi-judicial
> sporting apparatus to run more tests. You deter behavior
> by making the chance of getting caught greater, not by making
> the penalty more severe.
>
> This is the opposite of the idea that we should ban dopers
> for life. Everybody who thinks that is a great idea fails to
> realize that because the penalty is so severe, it will be subject
> to so many appeals that it will be useless, athletes will get
> cleared by national feds on questionable grounds, and so on.

Yes. Also, peer pressure (to not dope) is an important objective of
team-wide sporting penalties.


== 3 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 5:04 am
From: Bounty Bob


bar wrote:
> It damn well should be ...

> http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/sport/Third_BMC_cyclist_suspended_for_doping.html?cid=8731070&pos=7&type=NewsDigest

> Cadel should be calling Lotto or Lefevre looking for a July ride ...

Of course not. Coincident with the Armstrongs return
was a change in management of the TDF.
Now the management know doping is only done by lone
lame wolves so hopelessly uncompetitive that they only
barely hang on even after doping.


== 4 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 5:19 am
From: curtis@the-md-russells.org


On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 18:56:01 -0500, Fred Flintstein
<bob.schwartz@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote:

>Summary execution avoids the problem of endless appeals. I
>take my hobbies seriously.
>
>Fred Flintstein

And this could be done in a sporting and entertaining way.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...


== 5 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 6:27 am
From: bar


On Apr 27, 11:37 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> =="bar" <barbari...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:3d7ac4f5-4b35-4fbb-bf5a-3391ea481e14@w3g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > It damn well should be ...
>
> >http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/sport/Third_BMC_cyclist_suspended_for_dop...
>
> > Cadel should be calling Lotto or Lefevre looking for a July ride ...
>
> This is about a whole lot more than some random young guy trying too
> hard. Didn't you see this quote in the article?
>
> ==========
> Frei said that he had been doping since the summer of 2008, and that his
> inner circle was aware of it. "I am not a hardcore liar, I had to talk
> about it." Frei rode for Astana in 2007 and 2008, before joining BMC in
> 2009.
> ============
>
> The guy says people KNEW about it. This wasn't just him, doing something
> quietly on his own. WHO knew about it? Was BMC team management within
> that "inner circle?"
>
> I don't understand how something like this can be "reported" and not
> looked at more closely by Cyclingnews (or any other "news"
> organization). We could be looking at a smoking gun. Or not.
>

totally agree. someone should be asking about who knew what and when.
the CN article implies that he was doping while at Astana in 2008

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/frei-confesses-to-epo-usage-and-is-released-by-bmc

also, is it really true that just drinking a lot of water afterwards
is enough to mask micro-dosing with EPO?


== 6 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 7:12 am
From: Betty Munro


Fred Flintstein wrote:
>> Summary execution avoids the problem of endless appeals. I
>> take my hobbies seriously.

curtis@the-md-russells.org wrote:
> And this could be done in a sporting and entertaining way.

<http://www.exposingchristianity.com/Inquisition.html>


== 7 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 8:15 am
From: "Fred on a stick"


Ted van de Weteringe wrote:

> Yes. Also, peer pressure (to not dope) is an important objective of
> team-wide sporting penalties.

Half of it. The other half is to get team management to be vested in members
of their team not doping.


== 8 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 8:30 am
From: "Fred on a stick"


Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:

> The current system where Tour invitations may or may not
> depend on freedom from doping infractions and the ASO's
> need for publicity and star value, is only marginally set up
> to make teams police riders. It's actually set up for teams
> to value plausible deniability more than anything, so they
> can tell the riders they need results but cut them loose as
> soon as possible if necessary.

Yup. This is why it makes sense to apply time penalties to the entire team.
Maybe enforced at the first feed zone.


== 9 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 9:22 am
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"


<curtis@the-md-russells.org> wrote in message
news:ru9gt5lku60ordrr4m5ijqlhq9vphtov9v@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 18:56:01 -0500, Fred Flintstein
> <bob.schwartz@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>Summary execution avoids the problem of endless appeals. I
>>take my hobbies seriously.
>>
>>Fred Flintstein
>
> And this could be done in a sporting and entertaining way.
>
> Curtis L. Russell
> Odenton, MD (USA)
> Just someone on two wheels...

In Soccer, LaCross, Hockey and other sports, when there's an infraction,
you're penalized by playing with a man out. In the Amazing Race, you get
time penalties. But neither of those are entertaining enough.

Force offenders to ride 'Tour stages in a fixed gear. Any gear, their
choice. But fixed. Heck, maybe just force the old rules on them, where
they have to carry their own spares, fix their own bike, that sort of
thing. Wouldn't that be sufficiently entertaining?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


== 10 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 9:55 am
From: dave a


On 4/28/2010 9:22 AM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> <curtis@the-md-russells.org> wrote in message
> news:ru9gt5lku60ordrr4m5ijqlhq9vphtov9v@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 18:56:01 -0500, Fred Flintstein
>> <bob.schwartz@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Summary execution avoids the problem of endless appeals. I
>>> take my hobbies seriously.
>>>
>>> Fred Flintstein
>>
>> And this could be done in a sporting and entertaining way.
>>
>> Curtis L. Russell
>> Odenton, MD (USA)
>> Just someone on two wheels...
>
> In Soccer, LaCross, Hockey and other sports, when there's an infraction,
> you're penalized by playing with a man out. In the Amazing Race, you get
> time penalties. But neither of those are entertaining enough.
>
> Force offenders to ride 'Tour stages in a fixed gear. Any gear, their
> choice. But fixed. Heck, maybe just force the old rules on them, where
> they have to carry their own spares, fix their own bike, that sort of
> thing. Wouldn't that be sufficiently entertaining?
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>

I like the time penalty for everyone on the team, but it would have to
be for all future races, not just one. In any case, time penalties
would really add to the virtual winner list; "I would have won except I
had to take a five minute penalty". Plus, it would add some excitement
to the lanterne rouge contest.

- dave a


== 11 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 1:10 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article
<rcousine-26ADB1.20071127042010@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote:

> In article
> <926d228d-5c22-4b8d-8ed9-d779c75d55c0@r21g2000prr.googlegroups.com>,
> Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjweiner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 27, 12:52 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Apr 27, 1:26 pm, "Fred on a stick"
> > >
> > > <anonymous.cow...@address.invalid> wrote:
> > > > Scott wrote:
> > > > > On Apr 27, 11:31 am, bar <barbari...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> It damn well should be ...
> > >
> > > > >>http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/sport/Third_BMC_cyclist_suspended_for_dop...
> > >
> > > > >> Cadel should be calling Lotto or Lefevre looking for a July ride ...
> > >
> > > > > If you're going to DQ every team who has some low level rider trying
> > > > > to dope his way to the top, you'll end up with the first ever masters-
> > > > > fatties TdF, and even then it'll be hard to find 20 teams with no one
> > > > > doping.
> > >
> > > > The solution isn't hard. Sporting penalties for sporting violations.
> > >
> > > Ah, but it is hard, grasshopper.  They have sporting penalties, and
> > > they don't seem to work.  Even criminal penalties for sporting
> > > violations don't seem to work.
> >
> > We don't really have sporting penalties. We have suspensions,
> > which are not the same thing, and involve a long drawn out
> > process that is too similar to a legal process. Fredchung's point
> > (I think) is that we treat doping like a moral violation, as opposed
> > to treating it like an ordinary sporting foul.
> >
> > Suppose we just did the equivalent of awarding penalty kicks.
> > Rather than have the whole expensive apparatus of A and B samples,
> > legal appeals, excuses and arguments about contaminated
> > supplements and so on, when somebody gets popped, kick
> > them out of the race and dock all their teammates 5 minutes
> > (or some similar penalty). But let them race again (maybe
> > let them sit for two weeks, as is done with 50% HCT violations).
> >
> > You don't need appeals because the penalty is less severe
> > (note that hardly anyone appeals penalty kicks or 50% HCT "rests").
> > Use the money that is saved by doing away with the quasi-judicial
> > sporting apparatus to run more tests. You deter behavior
> > by making the chance of getting caught greater, not by making
> > the penalty more severe.
> >
> > This is the opposite of the idea that we should ban dopers
> > for life. Everybody who thinks that is a great idea fails to
> > realize that because the penalty is so severe, it will be subject
> > to so many appeals that it will be useless, athletes will get
> > cleared by national feds on questionable grounds, and so on.
>
> The penalty isn't useless. The proportion of riders who fail their A-B
> samples and serve a long suspension is very high. I think we can still
> number the amount of on-appeal victories that stuck on one hand. Appeals
> have mostly served to enrich legal counsel. How many riders have even
> appealed the process beyond the first level, more or less? Tyler and the
> lapsarian Mennonite were prominent English-language examples, but I
> don't there were a lot of lesser lights who went the whole nine yards,
> complete with "I'm innocent" books and legal-fundraising tours. But I
> hope those two don't miss a trick, and do treat us to "If I did it"
> books shortly. (Okay, Heras did appeal, but did he do a speaking tour?)
>
> a lot of the people we rubbish as having gotten away with it here have
> served "only" 6-18 months* due to "lenient" treatment. Unless you think
> WADA and the other vampires are not nailing highly probable dopers that
> they have the goods on. Do you?
>
> There is the other class, which is broadly the Operation Puertists and
> whatnot, where you get this long, ugly investigation, lots of "Valv.
> Pitti" suggestions, riders getting uninvited to Le Tour, and
> then...nothing.
>
> I don't think sporting violations are likely to help. The obvious reason
> for strict penalties is that the chance of getting popped is very much
> less than 100%. Therefore, the UCI and WADA and all the other alphabet
> soups are fairly rationally trying to re-balance the game-theoretical
> Expected Value of doping.
>
> Team-wide penalties, whether you call them "sporting" or not, are
> virtually part of the landscape now. Since your Tour invitation partly
> hinges on not having too many riders popped by WADA, there is a
> substantial incentive for teams to police their own riders, or at least
> to dissuade them from easily-caught methods.
>
> I think there might be a differential effect on the kind of riders who
> choose to dope in the present system, but I haven't thought it through
> yet.
>
> In short, I think we're relatively close to a collective, sporting
> penalties outcome, though of course biased to extra-punish the actual
> doper. We also may be too early in the Bio-passport era to know if it
> will effectively inhibit doping.

Eliminate dope testing entirely. Problem solved.

--
Old Fritz


== 12 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 2:04 pm
From: curtis@the-md-russells.org


On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 09:22:25 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:

>In Soccer, LaCross, Hockey and other sports, when there's an infraction,
>you're penalized by playing with a man out. In the Amazing Race, you get
>time penalties. But neither of those are entertaining enough.
>
>Force offenders to ride 'Tour stages in a fixed gear. Any gear, their
>choice. But fixed. Heck, maybe just force the old rules on them, where
>they have to carry their own spares, fix their own bike, that sort of
>thing. Wouldn't that be sufficiently entertaining?

I always thought that if you want to make the Tour more entertaining,
in a malignant sort of way, is to have severe infractions result in a
negative time 'bonus' for every remaining stage. This way, the famous
rider remains, but knows he has to be x number of seconds in front of
his competitors to win a stage or keep pace in GC.

Several good riders with differing time sanctions, and it would take a
computer to track when and why riders go off the front. Phil would
have to take a pill.

And THEN you take away the radios...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

PS: I also think that they should add a foul shot to additional fouls
beyond 5 in basketball, rather than the bogus, fall over themselves to
not foul out Kobie or Barkley in his day. Then the team has a choice -
play someone else in a tight situation, or realize someone could go to
the line with a lot of shots on a foul.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Liz Hatch wins!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c4e91f66ac85fd2f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 1:56 am
From: Uncle Dave


On Apr 27, 10:38 pm, ronaldo_jeremiah <ronaldo_jerem...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> http://www.tomscott.com/stupidfight/#lancearmstrong-vs-Liz_Hatch
>
> -rj

I'm not sure which is more stupid:

1. People who use Twitter or
2. People who analyse the output of people using Twitter or
3. People who pass on what the people analysing the people using
Twitter have to say about the people using Twitter.

Tweet that!

UD

P.S. Liked that. Certainly bears out what we've seen here since
Lance copped out from being a real racer to become a wimpy Tour
specialist ;-)


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 3:45 am
From: Betty Munro


ronaldo_jeremiah wrote:
> http://www.tomscott.com/stupidfight/#lancearmstrong-vs-Liz_Hatch

Shirley the object is to have more stupid fans.


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 7:04 am
From: ronaldo_jeremiah


On Apr 28, 5:45 am, Betty Munro <n...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> ronaldo_jeremiah wrote:
> >http://www.tomscott.com/stupidfight/#lancearmstrong-vs-Liz_Hatch
>
> Shirley the object is to have more stupid fans.

Liz did when I posted this, but since then it seems Lance has pulled
away. That bastard has to win at everything.

And don't call me Shirley.

-rj


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 1:23 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article
<aa5446ac-49f9-4dbe-a3a8-9be0b3d6ed03@k41g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
Uncle Dave <davidcovey@t-online.de> wrote:

> On Apr 27, 10:38 pm, ronaldo_jeremiah <ronaldo_jerem...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > http://www.tomscott.com/stupidfight/#lancearmstrong-vs-Liz_Hatch
> >
> > -rj
>
> I'm not sure which is more stupid:
>
> 1. People who use Twitter or
> 2. People who analyse the output of people using Twitter or
> 3. People who pass on what the people analysing the people using
> Twitter have to say about the people using Twitter.
>
> Tweet that!

I'm sorry. You exceeded the Twitter® 140 character limit. (254)

--
Old Fritz

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Hippodrome in Paris Sucks - The Fatty Master Travelogue
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c8a92c0d28caaa75?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 5:25 am
From: Anton Berlin


Knowing that they race bikes at velodromes it was only logical that I
try to take my girlfriend to see some hippo racing in Paris. Turns
out it's just a horse track.

Fucking frogs !

PS - I asked a french guy why they always plant tress on both sides of
the road,.... "It's because we know that the Germans prefer to march
in the shade"

Lots of WWII French rifles for sale here also - very clean condition,
never fired, dropped once.


== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 7:07 am
From: Betty Munro


Anton Berlin wrote:
> Knowing that they race bikes at velodromes it was only logical that I
> try to take my girlfriend to see some hippo racing in Paris. Turns
> out it's just a horse track.
>
> Fucking frogs !
>
> PS - I asked a french guy why they always plant tress on both sides of
> the road,.... "It's because we know that the Germans prefer to march
> in the shade"
>
> Lots of WWII French rifles for sale here also - very clean condition,
> never fired, dropped once.

Are there any Look or Time carbon forks ?


== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 11:36 am
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"


"Anton Berlin" <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:73995cca-e5d9-49a7-9943-5cfe79c25ed8@r1g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> Knowing that they race bikes at velodromes it was only logical that I
> try to take my girlfriend to see some hippo racing in Paris. Turns
> out it's just a horse track.
>
> Fucking frogs !
>
> PS - I asked a french guy why they always plant tress on both sides of
> the road,.... "It's because we know that the Germans prefer to march
> in the shade"
>
> Lots of WWII French rifles for sale here also - very clean condition,
> never fired, dropped once.

Even for you that's pretty lame. If you do any real riding in France, you
will come across many small town where the Resistance was very active, and
where it cost the village quite dearly. There are many monuments to German
massacres where a town was punished because of Resistance-performed
sabotage. Charles de Gaulle certainly had an egotistical aire about him, but
he and his people fought bravely and efficiently for France during the
occupation.

Seriously, get out and ride through the villages, and stop and actually read
the monuments you come across. There is no better way to explore a country
than from a bike.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 1:29 pm
From: Michael Press


In article
<73995cca-e5d9-49a7-9943-5cfe79c25ed8@r1g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Anton Berlin <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Knowing that they race bikes at velodromes it was only logical that I
> try to take my girlfriend to see some hippo racing in Paris. Turns
> out it's just a horse track.
>
> Fucking frogs !
>
> PS - I asked a french guy why they always plant tress on both sides of
> the road,.... "It's because we know that the Germans prefer to march
> in the shade"
>
> Lots of WWII French rifles for sale here also - very clean condition,
> never fired, dropped once.

<http://www.instantrimshot.com/>

--
Michael Press


== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 1:31 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article <H7Odnf2kBf7cHUXWnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:

> "Anton Berlin" <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:73995cca-e5d9-49a7-9943-5cfe79c25ed8@r1g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> > Knowing that they race bikes at velodromes it was only logical that I
> > try to take my girlfriend to see some hippo racing in Paris. Turns
> > out it's just a horse track.
> >
> > Fucking frogs !
> >
> > PS - I asked a french guy why they always plant tress on both sides of
> > the road,.... "It's because we know that the Germans prefer to march
> > in the shade"
> >
> > Lots of WWII French rifles for sale here also - very clean condition,
> > never fired, dropped once.
>
> Even for you that's pretty lame. If you do any real riding in France,

Oh no! Here comes Major Serious.

--
Old Fritz


== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 2:01 pm
From: "z, fred"


Frederick the Great wrote:
> In article <H7Odnf2kBf7cHUXWnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>
>> "Anton Berlin" <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:73995cca-e5d9-49a7-9943-5cfe79c25ed8@r1g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>>> Knowing that they race bikes at velodromes it was only logical that I
>>> try to take my girlfriend to see some hippo racing in Paris. Turns
>>> out it's just a horse track.
>>>
>>> Fucking frogs !
>>>
>>> PS - I asked a french guy why they always plant tress on both sides of
>>> the road,.... "It's because we know that the Germans prefer to march
>>> in the shade"
>>>
>>> Lots of WWII French rifles for sale here also - very clean condition,
>>> never fired, dropped once.
>> Even for you that's pretty lame. If you do any real riding in France,
>
> Oh no! Here comes Major Serious.
>

http://comics.com/frazz/2010-04-28/


== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 2:10 pm
From: curtis@the-md-russells.org


On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 11:36:52 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:

>Seriously, get out and ride through the villages, and stop and actually read
>the monuments you come across. There is no better way to explore a country
>than from a bike.

Seriously, read the monuments you come across riding in the U.S. - the
South won the war, the Klan deserves our thanks and Spanish Catholic
churches don't count when you do the 'first west of' thing.

And the High Point of the Condfederacy at least makes Gettysburg a
virtual victory for Lee. Damn Dutch didn't know when to run.

I hope the French do the monuments better than we do - maybe take
lessons from the Daughters of the Confederacy. Yeah, yeah, the French
don't do the Monuments any better than they do the Tour.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...


== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 2:11 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"


"Frederick the Great" <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:rubrum-81258E.13310428042010@news.albasani.net...
> In article <H7Odnf2kBf7cHUXWnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>
>> "Anton Berlin" <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:73995cca-e5d9-49a7-9943-5cfe79c25ed8@r1g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>> > Knowing that they race bikes at velodromes it was only logical that I
>> > try to take my girlfriend to see some hippo racing in Paris. Turns
>> > out it's just a horse track.
>> >
>> > Fucking frogs !
>> >
>> > PS - I asked a french guy why they always plant tress on both sides of
>> > the road,.... "It's because we know that the Germans prefer to march
>> > in the shade"
>> >
>> > Lots of WWII French rifles for sale here also - very clean condition,
>> > never fired, dropped once.
>>
>> Even for you that's pretty lame. If you do any real riding in France,
>
> Oh no! Here comes Major Serious.
>
> --
> Old Fritz

Yep, sometimes guilty as charged. Still waiting to find some reason to
participate in a Liz Hatch thread, but geez, get a life, there's so much
interesting stuff going on that's directly relevant to bike racing at this
time of year.

Maybe I'm channeling the ghost of Ken Papai?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 3:45 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"


<curtis@the-md-russells.org> wrote in message
news:sp8ht5982mmkr01ec0u5gon4c7knu79med@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 11:36:52 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>
>>Seriously, get out and ride through the villages, and stop and actually
>>read
>>the monuments you come across. There is no better way to explore a country
>>than from a bike.
>
> Seriously, read the monuments you come across riding in the U.S. - the
> South won the war, the Klan deserves our thanks and Spanish Catholic
> churches don't count when you do the 'first west of' thing.
>
> And the High Point of the Condfederacy at least makes Gettysburg a
> virtual victory for Lee. Damn Dutch didn't know when to run.
>
> I hope the French do the monuments better than we do - maybe take
> lessons from the Daughters of the Confederacy. Yeah, yeah, the French
> don't do the Monuments any better than they do the Tour.
>
> Curtis L. Russell
> Odenton, MD (USA)
> Just someone on two wheels...

People will always attempt to rewrite history through monuments. Your point
is well-taken; we should always return to RBR to maintain a sense of
perspective and order in the world.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

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