Saturday, May 22, 2010

rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

Buzz It
rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Floyd Landis Could Be Cycling's Jose Canseco - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/43a256e975de7482?hl=en
* Hey, where's Allen Lim? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/795e9be85851966c?hl=en
* Lemond - 6 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bc2f64af3f18801c?hl=en
* Morotized Doping? - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c78ad58063d0ada7?hl=en
* Floyd is a nice guy - 5 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/57dd4150d72b160d?hl=en
* Scott Sunderland leaves team sky. - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c30f2fd3580dcbfe?hl=en
* Suspicion Is One Nemesis Armstrong Can't Outpedal - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/629bc9625b30b4ff?hl=en
* Shack statements - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/891622678a7f6e7f?hl=en
* Poor Brent Kay was delusional and duped by Floyd - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7c46a5f76b32b84c?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Floyd Landis Could Be Cycling's Jose Canseco
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/43a256e975de7482?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 12:59 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/21/sportsline/main6506569.shtml


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 3:17 pm
From: Keith


On Sat, 22 May 2010 15:59:41 -0400, "B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/21/sportsline/main6506569.shtml

"Still, something is odd. Landis has little credibility but sounds
believable and Armstrong has a lot of credibility but seems shady.

Landis is a jerk. He's desperate. He has nothing. He may also be
telling the truth. Just like Canseco. "

Sad but true, LA's time as a fraud is up. He wasted 10 years of
cycling, he needs to answer for that.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hey, where's Allen Lim?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/795e9be85851966c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 1:11 pm
From: Michael Press


In article <ht8232$9fp$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
"F. Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:

> "B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> >
> > Perhaps Coyle will tell us whether Lance's Tour wins resulted from
> > efficiency or doping or a combination thereof.
>
>
>
> Idiot -
>
> No human being knows the answer to that question. Our knowledge of the
> causes of performance success and failure in sport is way too primitive.
> Some evidence: the large number of busts in the first round of the NFL
> draft, an enterprise which, given the large amount of resources poured into
> it, would be deterministic if the science were there.

Many first round draftee busts
are from sleight-of-hand:
college coach and agent creating an
image of more than what is there.

--
Michael Press

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lemond
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bc2f64af3f18801c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 1:22 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article <B6WdnT5CfIiXR2rWnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@giganews.com>,
"B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On 5/21/2010 10:10 PM, Frederick the Great wrote:
> > In article<06adnT25besbaWvWnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> > "B. Lafferty"<bl@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 5/21/2010 4:31 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
> >>> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/05/20/2010-05-20_greg_lemond_believes_most_of_floyd_landis_statements_about_doping_in_cycling.html
> >>
> >> This is interesting:
> >>
> >> "In that lawsuit, LeMond subpoenaed Armstrong's ex-wife, Kristin
> >> Armstrong, for a deposition in which she was asked if she ever saw her
> >> ex-husband use performance-enhancing drugs. She did not answer, on
> >> orders from her attorney, Tim Herman, who has represented Lance
> >> Armstrong as well."
> >>
> >> I suspect that Trek (and Armstrong) were facing a motion to compel
> >> Kristen to answer the question, a motion that would likely be granted.
> >> Tthen the case settled (after a judge ruled the case would go to trial)
> >> and now it's all "confidential." Lovely.
> >>
> >> I wonder why Herman direct his client not to answer if the answer was,
> >> "I never saw or had any reason to believe that Lance was using any thing
> >> improper for performance enhancement."
> >
> > The answer is a new concept for you:
> >
> > It was none of their business.
> >
> Spoken like a true idiot. Carry on. :-)

When the facts are against you, and the law
is against you; then lie on the floor, kick
your feet, pound the floor with you little
fists, and scream.

--
Old Fritz


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 1:24 pm
From: Michael Press


In article
<d91cca07-ee29-412e-8133-ba03e7af0b0d@r9g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>,
Uncle Dave <davidcovey@t-online.de> wrote:

> On May 21, 9:31 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/05/20/2010-05-20_g...
>
> I always assumed Lemond must be doping because he was a yank and you
> know what a cheating bunch they are. They even make their own
> versions of perfectly good sports like rugby and cricket just so they
> can be world champions in something...

How _is_ that cricket thing going?
Pakistanis and Jamaicans still eating your lunch?

--
Michael Press


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 2:31 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/22/2010 4:22 PM, Frederick the Great wrote:
> In article<B6WdnT5CfIiXR2rWnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> "B. Lafferty"<bl@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/21/2010 10:10 PM, Frederick the Great wrote:
>>> In article<06adnT25besbaWvWnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>>> "B. Lafferty"<bl@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/21/2010 4:31 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
>>>>> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/05/20/2010-05-20_greg_lemond_believes_most_of_floyd_landis_statements_about_doping_in_cycling.html
>>>>
>>>> This is interesting:
>>>>
>>>> "In that lawsuit, LeMond subpoenaed Armstrong's ex-wife, Kristin
>>>> Armstrong, for a deposition in which she was asked if she ever saw her
>>>> ex-husband use performance-enhancing drugs. She did not answer, on
>>>> orders from her attorney, Tim Herman, who has represented Lance
>>>> Armstrong as well."
>>>>
>>>> I suspect that Trek (and Armstrong) were facing a motion to compel
>>>> Kristen to answer the question, a motion that would likely be granted.
>>>> Tthen the case settled (after a judge ruled the case would go to trial)
>>>> and now it's all "confidential." Lovely.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder why Herman direct his client not to answer if the answer was,
>>>> "I never saw or had any reason to believe that Lance was using any thing
>>>> improper for performance enhancement."
>>>
>>> The answer is a new concept for you:
>>>
>>> It was none of their business.
>>>
>> Spoken like a true idiot. Carry on. :-)
>
> When the facts are against you, and the law
> is against you; then lie on the floor, kick
> your feet, pound the floor with you little
> fists, and scream.
>
Thanks for sharing, Fred.


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 2:45 pm
From: Uncle Dave


On May 22, 9:24 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <d91cca07-ee29-412e-8133-ba03e7af0...@r9g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>,
>  Uncle Dave <davidco...@t-online.de> wrote:
>
> > On May 21, 9:31 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/05/20/2010-05-20_g...
>
> > I always assumed Lemond must be doping because he was a yank and you
> > know what a cheating bunch they are.  They even make their own
> > versions of perfectly good sports like rugby and cricket just so they
> > can be world champions in something...
>
> How _is_ that cricket thing going?
> Pakistanis and Jamaicans still eating your lunch?

England were crowned world champions just last week. Beat those damn
Aussies. Had to invent a new form of the game to do it mind...

UD


== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 3:47 pm
From: --D-y


On May 22, 11:43 am, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 22 May 2010 09:28:30 -0700 (PDT), --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > If for no other reason than the fact that he fits the doper profile
> >> > <g>.
> >> > --D-y
>
> >> We've done this discussion before. There was no doping back in the early
> >> 90's. And if there was, it didn't count.
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythropoietin
>
> >Says epo was produced in the mid-80's, by 1985.
> >There have been other forms of doping.
>
> >HGH first produced synthetically in 1981:
> >http://www.somatropin.net/hgh-history.htm
>
> >"Here, take this nice big dose of amphetamine and tell me it doesn't
> >count".
>
> >In the "discussion we've had before", it has been disputed that an
> >"iron shot" would have effected the massive change in ability, where
> >Lemond was pack fodder in June and won the TdF in July.
>
> Wrong, read Fignon's book, he recalls Guimard and him were worried
> after Lemond won the final ITT in the Giro that year.

Who says he waited to dope until the Giro was over? He was riding
poorly, with the TdF coming up...
So he and or his handlers opened up a 44 of Instant Fitness (New and
Improved!!!) and the product lived up to its advertising.
Doper profile doper profile doper profile.
--D-y

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 4:18 pm
From: Michael Press


In article
<38c1abbc-5ebe-46fc-bb32-abe65ec9fa36@q8g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
Uncle Dave <davidcovey@t-online.de> wrote:

> On May 22, 9:24 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > In article
> > <d91cca07-ee29-412e-8133-ba03e7af0...@r9g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>,
> >  Uncle Dave <davidco...@t-online.de> wrote:
> >
> > > On May 21, 9:31 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/05/20/2010-05-20_g...
> >
> > > I always assumed Lemond must be doping because he was a yank and you
> > > know what a cheating bunch they are.  They even make their own
> > > versions of perfectly good sports like rugby and cricket just so they
> > > can be world champions in something...
> >
> > How _is_ that cricket thing going?
> > Pakistanis and Jamaicans still eating your lunch?
>
> England were crowned world champions just last week. Beat those damn
> Aussies. Had to invent a new form of the game to do it mind...

The sun never sets. Good show.

--
Michael Press

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Morotized Doping?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c78ad58063d0ada7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 1:53 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article
<0d07f5a2-389d-4655-816a-b427023dd260@q8g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
Brad Anders <pbanders@gmail.com> wrote:

> On May 21, 5:57 pm, Frederick the Great <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > In article
> > <0227236a-cfb4-4361-9f09-720d627df...@y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
> >  Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

>
> > > I found some pics of Bill's setup.
> >
> > >http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/power_gold_rush_build/...
> >
> > Lots of pictures of minutia, and finally on page 8 is a close up
> > of some working parts from which we can finally _infer_ the
> > energy transfer mechanism.
> >
> > I still have no clue about the servo mechanism controlling
> > the power output of the motor. Since the motor drives the
> > rear cluster directly, it needs to back off for shifting.
> >
> > Other than that, interesting.
>
> Hey, if you're interested, just email him, I'm sure his email is easy
> enough to figure out. I'm pretty sure he'd tell anything you want to
> know.

1. I am commenting on the web site.

2. I did not introduce the web site to this discussion.

3. I am not building an electric bicycle; and am more
interested in some other things.

4. If I were interested enough to write I would risk a
dialogue as diffuse as the web site.

5. There are full designs for electric bicycles on the
web, and elsewhere. Chalo Colina in rbt built several
effective electric bicycles.

--
Old Fritz


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 1:58 pm
From: Michael Press


In article <ht82dt$bft$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
"F. Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:

> "Frederick the Great" <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:rubrum-]
> >
> > I still have no clue about the servo mechanism controlling
> > the power output of the motor. Since the motor drives the
> > rear cluster directly, it needs to back off for shifting.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> No need for a servo. Just need on/off when shifting.
>
> A servo is way more than is needed for this application. Simple 100 watts or
> 0 watts will work just fine.

Yes, I know; and think about an on-off switch as a servomechanism.
There has to be a clutch, and that is a servomechanism.
Do you see why and how it can productively thought of
as a servomechanism? We still do not know how the electric motor
and drive participate in shifting; not that I am asking.

--
Michael Press

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Floyd is a nice guy
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/57dd4150d72b160d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 2:13 pm
From: Michael Press


In article <27524$4bf7a92e$53578816$24454@cache2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>,
"A. Dumas Fred" <alexandre@dumas.fr> wrote:

> http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd

From the article.
___________________________________________________________________________
Floyd's position went something like this: Oh fuck yes
I doped. I doped just like everyone else did. I did not
invent doping, and I understood that at the level I was
at, it was part of my job description, like Lance, like
George. So why should I be the only one who goes down
for it?
___________________________________________________________________________

The answer is that an honorable man abides with the
consequences of his actions. He does not try to make
other people suffer because of his actions.

--
Michael Press


== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 2:18 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article <751gv5dmbcphoutf88vbgi0ibn79goedo8@4ax.com>,
Keith <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 22 May 2010 08:00:59 -0700, "F. Kurgan Gringioni"
> <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> >news:IdmdnZ904OYDeGrWnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@giganews.com...
> >> On 5/22/2010 5:51 AM, A. Dumas Fred wrote:
> >>> http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
> >>
> >> One of the better pieces on the overall situation that I've read. Adam
> >> has put Landis and his situation in perspective, rather eloquently, too.
> >
> >
> >
> >Dumbass -
> >
> >Myerson has it partly wrong and Floyd has it completely wrong.
> >
> >If Floyd was going after the system during the last 4 years, he should have
> >presented it as such, truthfully. He should not have included the "I DIDN'T
> >DOPE" part of the four year crusade.
>
> That's because he thought he would be allowed to come back by not
> breaking the omerta.

He was _negotiating_. He was _not_ keeping omerta.
He was _prepared_ to blab; and that means he was not keeping omerta.

--
Old Fritz


== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 2:32 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/22/2010 5:13 PM, Michael Press wrote:
> In article<27524$4bf7a92e$53578816$24454@cache2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>,
> "A. Dumas Fred"<alexandre@dumas.fr> wrote:
>
>> http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
>
> From the article.
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> Floyd's position went something like this: Oh fuck yes
> I doped. I doped just like everyone else did. I did not
> invent doping, and I understood that at the level I was
> at, it was part of my job description, like Lance, like
> George. So why should I be the only one who goes down
> for it?
> ___________________________________________________________________________
>
> The answer is that an honorable man abides with the
> consequences of his actions. He does not try to make
> other people suffer because of his actions.
>
You live in a very odd world.


== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 3:06 pm
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd


On May 22, 2:13 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article <27524$4bf7a92e$53578816$24...@cache2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>,
>  "A. Dumas Fred" <alexan...@dumas.fr> wrote:
>
> >http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
>
> From the article.
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> Floyd's position went something like this: Oh fuck yes
> I doped. I doped just like everyone else did. I did not
> invent doping, and I understood that at the level I was
> at, it was part of my job description, like Lance, like
> George. So why should I be the only one who goes down
> for it?
> ___________________________________________________________________________
>
> The answer is that an honorable man abides with the
> consequences of his actions. He does not try to make
> other people suffer because of his actions.

I'll try to remember this next time a Tour stage
is heading up a big mountain, some skinny VO2 freak
attacks, and the commentators exclaim, "They're
really suffering now!"

Seriously, there is a thin line between taking
your lumps honorably, and being an exploited
chump or a scapegoat. Sometimes it's not easy
to tell which is which. I have read little of what
Floyd said, and it sounds like he's achieving
maximum trainwreck for the truth-value he is
providing. But I also have some sympathy for the
idea that he doesn't have to play along to make
sure a system that screwed him continues to
operate smoothly.

If we continue with the Mafia analogy of omerta,
one of the things the Mafia is supposed to do is
that when a member goes to prison, his family is
provided for and he gets taken care of when he
gets out. This isn't done out of the goodness of
their hearts, it's done to give them an incentive
not to talk. Some people busted for dope get taken
care of, Floyd got treated like a pariah. In part
because he can't ride competitively any more
(I mean, compare him to the quickness of
re-integrating Ricco into the peloton). So I think
appeals to honorableness are beside the point.

Fredmaster Ben


== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 4:35 pm
From: Michael Press


In article
<43eb2c29-eda1-46fe-bfc3-bad86a5f4352@o15g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjweiner@gmail.com> wrote:

> On May 22, 2:13 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > In article <27524$4bf7a92e$53578816$24...@cache2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>,
> >  "A. Dumas Fred" <alexan...@dumas.fr> wrote:
> >
> > >http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
> >
> > From the article.
> > ___________________________________________________________________________
> > Floyd's position went something like this: Oh fuck yes
> > I doped. I doped just like everyone else did. I did not
> > invent doping, and I understood that at the level I was
> > at, it was part of my job description, like Lance, like
> > George. So why should I be the only one who goes down
> > for it?
> > ___________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > The answer is that an honorable man abides with the
> > consequences of his actions. He does not try to make
> > other people suffer because of his actions.
>
> I'll try to remember this next time a Tour stage
> is heading up a big mountain, some skinny VO2 freak
> attacks, and the commentators exclaim, "They're
> really suffering now!"

It is a potlatch.
Reminds me of stage 13 today. I thought the pundits'
anticipation of a slugfest was puffery, because
the stage ends with a flat portion. But they were right.

> Seriously, there is a thin line between taking
> your lumps honorably, and being an exploited
> chump or a scapegoat. Sometimes it's not easy
> to tell which is which.

When I realize that I am being exploited I take my
lumps, and do not try to get mine back. There is
nothing in it. I simply stop acting as a chump. It is
easier to learn how not to be exploited by taking one's
lumps, and moving on.

> I have read little of what
> Floyd said, and it sounds like he's achieving
> maximum trainwreck for the truth-value he is
> providing. But I also have some sympathy for the
> idea that he doesn't have to play along to make
> sure a system that screwed him continues to
> operate smoothly.
>
> If we continue with the Mafia analogy of omerta,
> one of the things the Mafia is supposed to do is
> that when a member goes to prison, his family is
> provided for and he gets taken care of when he
> gets out. This isn't done out of the goodness of
> their hearts, it's done to give them an incentive
> not to talk. Some people busted for dope get taken
> care of, Floyd got treated like a pariah. In part
> because he can't ride competitively any more
> (I mean, compare him to the quickness of
> re-integrating Ricco into the peloton). So I think
> appeals to honorableness are beside the point.

There is nothing in messing with other people
who have hurt me; unless I can swear out a
complaint in the matter with the civil authorities
in clear conscience.

--
Michael Press

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Scott Sunderland leaves team sky.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c30f2fd3580dcbfe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 2:17 pm
From: "A. Dumas Fred"


thirty-six wrote:
> Odd time for an anouncement?

His youngest son is very sick.
ann.: http://www.scottsunderland.com/NewsDetail.asp?Id=141
the son: http://www.scottsunderland.com/BlogPost.asp?Id=109


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 2:30 pm
From: thirty-six


On 22 May, 22:17, "A. Dumas Fred" <alexan...@dumas.fr> wrote:
> thirty-six wrote:
> > Odd time for an anouncement?
>
> His youngest son is very sick.
> ann.:http://www.scottsunderland.com/NewsDetail.asp?Id=141
> the son:http://www.scottsunderland.com/BlogPost.asp?Id=109

Yes, but to not wait until the end of the Giro, doesn't sound good?


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 2:39 pm
From: "A. Dumas Fred"


thirty-six wrote:
> On 22 May, 22:17, "A. Dumas Fred" wrote:
>> ann.:http://www.scottsunderland.com/NewsDetail.asp?Id=141
>> the son:http://www.scottsunderland.com/BlogPost.asp?Id=109
>
> Yes, but to not wait until the end of the Giro, doesn't sound good?

Who fucking cares about the fucking Tour of fucking Spaghettiland when
your youngest son is very ill? No, it doesn't sound good.


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 2:59 pm
From: "H. Fred Kveck"


In article <dc44a$4bf84f03$53578816$13393@cache2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>,
"A. Dumas Fred" <alexandre@dumas.fr> wrote:

> thirty-six wrote:
> > On 22 May, 22:17, "A. Dumas Fred" wrote:
> >> ann.:http://www.scottsunderland.com/NewsDetail.asp?Id=141
> >> the son:http://www.scottsunderland.com/BlogPost.asp?Id=109
> >
> > Yes, but to not wait until the end of the Giro, doesn't sound good?
>
> Who fucking cares about the fucking Tour of fucking Spaghettiland when
> your youngest son is very ill? No, it doesn't sound good.

Dude, don't you understand? Sunderland being at that event that's for our
entertainment is far more important than some dumb sick kid. He can always make
another one.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Suspicion Is One Nemesis Armstrong Can't Outpedal
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/629bc9625b30b4ff?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 2:56 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/sports/cycling/21vecsey.html?ref=global


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 3:07 pm
From: Keith


On Sat, 22 May 2010 17:56:17 -0400, "B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/sports/cycling/21vecsey.html?ref=global

An interesting piece but I am puzzled by the end : "The United States
Anti-Doping Agency will investigate, and federal investigators will
make sure those questioned are telling the truth. But I have no faith
in organized cycling to take this on in any serious way.

No matter where it goes from here, I donÕt think Lance Armstrong can
break away from this one. "

On the hand the writer says this is going to be swept under the carpet
but then that LA won't recover ? I doubt he can be taken down and
things going on as before ?


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 3:15 pm
From: raamman


On May 22, 6:07 pm, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 22 May 2010 17:56:17 -0400, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/sports/cycling/21vecsey.html?ref=gl...
>
> An interesting piece but I am puzzled by the end : "The United States
> Anti-Doping Agency will investigate, and federal investigators will
> make sure those questioned are telling the truth. But I have no faith
> in organized cycling to take this on in any serious way.
>
> No matter where it goes from here, I donÕt think Lance Armstrong can
> break away from this one. "
>
> On the hand the writer says this is going to be swept under the carpet
> but then that LA won't recover ? I doubt he can be taken down and
> things going on as before ?

they used to burn people alive on suspicion of witchcraft didn't
they ? I would've hoped that most people would conduct themselves
according to what we consider "just" practices. Too bad so many still
live in the middle ages.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Shack statements
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/891622678a7f6e7f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 4:56 pm
From: ilan


On May 21, 8:49 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> interesting reading, take a look at the email trail.
>
> http://www.livestrong.com/teamradioshack/
>
> Yeah, Landis seems credible alright.

They seem like a violation of copyright, you can't publish someone
else's e-mail without their permission.

-ilan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Poor Brent Kay was delusional and duped by Floyd
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7c46a5f76b32b84c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 5:07 pm
From: Ben Trovato


On May 21, 11:58 pm, raamman <raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> from the AP story "Armstrong fires back again at Landis"
>
[Messick said]
> "I'm accustomed to teams saying we deserve to be part of this race.
> But this was a first, we never had someone try to do what he did. ...
> He recorded our first lunch. There was never a moment I didn't suspect
> he was going to leak all this stuff."
>

Messick's emails all seem written in the expectation that they would
become public. I'll bet all the responses were worked out a few weeks
ago.


==============================================================================

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Medarticles Please, I need some papers

Buzz It
Dear Friends

I need the next papers please:

1) "Examination of the Mode of Action of Ribavirin against Tobacco
Mosaic Virus"
William O. Dawson, Hector Lozoya-Saldana
Intervirology
1984, Vol 22, Pages 77-84
DOI 10.1159/000149537

Link: http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=3DShowAbstra=
ct&ArtikelNr=3D149537&Ausgabe=3D237889&ProduktNr=3D224031

2) "Antiviral activity and mode of action of ribavirin 5=E2=80=B2-
sulfamate
against Semliki Forest virus"
Donald F. Smee, Hassan A. Alaghamandan, Ganesh D. Kini and Roland K.
Robins
Antiviral Research
1988, Volume 10, Issue 6, Pages 253-262
DOI 10.1016/0166-3542(88)90044-7

Link:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=3DArticleURL&_udi=3DB6T2H-476KXSJ-=
HB&_user=3D713869&_coverDate=3D12%2F11%2F1988&_rdoc=3D1&_fmt=3Dhigh&_orig=
=3Dbrowse&_srch=3Ddoc-info(%23toc

%234919%231988%23999899993%23361038%23FLP%=
23display
%23Volume)&_cdi=3D4919&_sort=3Dd&_docanchor=3D&_ct=3D10&_acct=3DC0=
00039900&_version=3D1&_urlVersion=3D0&_userid=3D713869&md5=3D10cd93d0133e2f=
b03038a5c4d8674933

Thank you very much

FJ

--
You can edit your Group Email settings by visiting the following link.

http://groups.google.com/group/medarticles/subscribe

You can choose abridged email or digest email so that you will receive only one email per day.

rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

Buzz It
rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Hey, where's Allen Lim? - 5 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/795e9be85851966c?hl=en
* Floyd is a nice guy - 7 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/57dd4150d72b160d?hl=en
* Shack statements - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/891622678a7f6e7f?hl=en
* Poor Brent Kay was delusional and duped by Floyd - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7c46a5f76b32b84c?hl=en
* Lemond - 8 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bc2f64af3f18801c?hl=en
* Scott Sunderland leaves team sky. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c30f2fd3580dcbfe?hl=en
* Landis Press Conference Today - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/ddf4256ebab6901d?hl=en
* Floyd Landis Could Be Cycling's Jose Canseco - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/43a256e975de7482?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hey, where's Allen Lim?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/795e9be85851966c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 6:24 am
From: Betty Munro


Andy Coggan wrote:
> Reading comprehension is apparently no more DA74's strong suit than
> logic is Lafferty's.

Bug can be undocumented feature.


== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 8:07 am
From: DA74


On May 22, 3:36 am, Jeff Jones <drjone...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 21, 4:31 am, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey doctor fucking Allen, how are those Floyd wattage plausability
> > calculations going now?  According to my limited brain capacity either
> > you knew and you were complicit which makes you as big of an asshole
> > as Floyd or you didn't and you're totally incompetent. Which is it?
>
> > Your Twitter account got very very quiet today.
>
> > Please Inform,
> > -DA74
>
> http://video.bicycling.com/video/ATOC-Allen-Lim-addresses-allega

Thanks for the link JJ. That was one seriously weak denial. Reporter:
"Does it surprise you, the amount of drugs he said he was taking, I
mean, how did you miss that?" Allen Lim: "I don't know. It's crazy."

Nice work "Dr."

What a fucking amateur. He'll be the first to crack. He kept referring
them to the Radio Shack statement. All he would say is that "he'd
never help an athlete use performance enhancing drugs."

He didn't mention that he was accused not of helping with drugs but
with transfusing blood. The reporters didn't follow up.


== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 8:25 am
From: dave a


On 5/22/2010 3:36 AM, Jeff Jones wrote:
> On May 21, 4:31 am, DA74<davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey doctor fucking Allen, how are those Floyd wattage plausability
>> calculations going now? According to my limited brain capacity either
>> you knew and you were complicit which makes you as big of an asshole
>> as Floyd or you didn't and you're totally incompetent. Which is it?
>>
>> Your Twitter account got very very quiet today.
>>
>> Please Inform,
>> -DA74
>
> http://video.bicycling.com/video/ATOC-Allen-Lim-addresses-allega

Lim seems to be at a loss for words and has that deer in the headlights
look.


== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 8:39 am
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


curtis@the-md-russells.org wrote:
> On Fri, 21 May 2010 17:06:09 -0700, "K. Fred Gauss"
> <Someone@Somewhere.You.Dont.Wanna.Be> wrote:
>
>> curtis@the-md-russells.org wrote:
>>> On Fri, 21 May 2010 11:32:24 -0700, "K. Fred Gauss"
>>> <Fred@fredlier.than.thou> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Those people who disagreed with me
>>>> for all those years when I said LA was a transvestite alien Nazi will
>>>> get their comeuppance now!
>>> I was only questioning the 'alien' part.
>> That's revisionist history, shithead. You also disagreed when I said
>> ATSWHATIMTALKINBOUT would win the Kentucky Derby and about LA's favorite
>> brand of energy drink. You'd like us all to forget about that, wouldn't
>> you? Just wait till the Feds get depositions from the Pakistani guy in
>> the 7-11 and FUNNY CIDE. Moron!
>>
>> ROTFLMAO!!!
>
> Well, the guy in the 7-11 IS an alien. Actually, they all are.
>
> Not that there is anything wrong with that. Except in Arizona, where
> 7-11s are empty glass monuments with the glass doors swinging in the
> wind.

So now the LA camp is "disappearing" all the witnesses? Interesting...


== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 8:40 am
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


Betty Munro wrote:
> K. Fred Gauss wrote:
>>> Those people who disagreed with me for all those years when I said LA
>>> was a transvestite alien Nazi will get their comeuppance now!
>
> curtis@the-md-russells.org wrote:
>> I was only questioning the 'alien' part.
>
> Perhaps they introduced some alien DNA when they cloned Hitler to make
> LANCE.

I am ashamed that I missed that obvious connection.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Floyd is a nice guy
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/57dd4150d72b160d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 8:23 am
From: DA74


On May 22, 8:00 am, "F. Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>
> news:IdmdnZ904OYDeGrWnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> > On 5/22/2010 5:51 AM, A. Dumas Fred wrote:
> >>http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
>
> > One of the better pieces on the overall situation that I've read.  Adam
> > has put Landis and his situation in perspective, rather eloquently, too.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Myerson has it partly wrong and Floyd has it completely wrong.
>
> If Floyd was going after the system during the last 4 years, he should have
> presented it as such, truthfully. He should not have included the "I DIDN'T
> DOPE" part of the four year crusade. By lying about that part of it he
> ruined his own credibility and with it any chance that he has of changing
> anything.
>
> thanks,
>
> Fred. presented by Gringioni.

I think a guy like AHM who is just as talented as any of the top level
pros probably feels a certain degree of vindication. Guys like him
which he mentioned, Tim Johnson, Danny Pate, and Mike Creed were all
standing at those crossroads and chose a path that paid them a
fraction of what they could have made. They didn't choose the rock
star life - They chose to play the bars instead of the arenas and live
with a clear conscience.

I think guys like him would love to see the dopers go down because it
will validate their choices to a degree. They did the right thing but
no one outside of the game really knows that. They just figure these
guys aren't as good or fast as the Pro Tour boys.

But KG I do agree with you, Floyd went about it all wrong. He is a
fucking moron.


== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 8:28 am
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


B. Lafferty wrote:
> On 5/22/2010 5:51 AM, A. Dumas Fred wrote:
>> http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
>
> One of the better pieces on the overall situation that I've read. Adam
> has put Landis and his situation in perspective, rather eloquently, too.

Yes, nicely done. The "Pretty Boy Floyd" analogy works very well for
this piece, but you might have to know a bit about the gangster to
follow that.

For those that need some background:
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/longtimecoming/prettyboy/stories.html


== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 8:38 am
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> "B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:IdmdnZ904OYDeGrWnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> On 5/22/2010 5:51 AM, A. Dumas Fred wrote:
>>> http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
>>
>> One of the better pieces on the overall situation that I've read.
>> Adam has put Landis and his situation in perspective, rather
>> eloquently, too.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Myerson has it partly wrong and Floyd has it completely wrong.
>
> If Floyd was going after the system during the last 4 years, he should
> have presented it as such, truthfully. He should not have included the
> "I DIDN'T DOPE" part of the four year crusade. By lying about that part
> of it he ruined his own credibility and with it any chance that he has
> of changing anything.
>
> thanks,
>
> Fred. presented by Gringioni.

I like the bits about "Pretty Boy Floyd" that are interspersed with the
piece. Myerson wasn't trying to deal with Floyd in his entirety. By
including the PBF comparison he's making it clear that he knows there's
more going on here than just a story about a nice guy who doped. He's
not trying to cover all that, just telling us about his personal
experiences with Flandis.


== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 8:38 am
From: "GoneBeforeMyTime"


A. Dumas Fred wrote:
> http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd

Nice read.

I spent a week with Floyd at the same hotel in Redlands. He stayed with his
team two doors down. I saw them often out in the hotel parking lot, at the
races, and in the Hotel breakfest area. They often wondered why I never
spoke to them or tried to take their photos since i was an offical press
photographer. They were nice though, Floyd seems to be a real easy going
kind of guy. When they found out I was covering the girls, I remembered
Floyd said something like, that figures, but he just kind of smiled a little
as he walked back to his room. I never saw him get uptight, he seemed low
key or reserved. Especially in the breakfest area, they were very quiet and
polite.

There is always an open door for Floyd back on the farm, I am sure.


== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 9:21 am
From: Keith


On Sat, 22 May 2010 10:09:31 -0400, "B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>On 5/22/2010 5:51 AM, A. Dumas Fred wrote:
>> http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
>
>One of the better pieces on the overall situation that I've read. Adam
>has put Landis and his situation in perspective, rather eloquently, too.

Yes, that sums it up nicely. These revelations are not going away.


== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 9:22 am
From: Keith


On Sat, 22 May 2010 08:00:59 -0700, "F. Kurgan Gringioni"
<kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:IdmdnZ904OYDeGrWnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> On 5/22/2010 5:51 AM, A. Dumas Fred wrote:
>>> http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
>>
>> One of the better pieces on the overall situation that I've read. Adam
>> has put Landis and his situation in perspective, rather eloquently, too.
>
>
>
>Dumbass -
>
>Myerson has it partly wrong and Floyd has it completely wrong.
>
>If Floyd was going after the system during the last 4 years, he should have
>presented it as such, truthfully. He should not have included the "I DIDN'T
>DOPE" part of the four year crusade.

That's because he thought he would be allowed to come back by not
breaking the omerta.

> By lying about that part of it he
>ruined his own credibility and with it any chance that he has of changing
>anything.

We'll see about that...


== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 9:28 am
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/22/2010 11:00 AM, F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> "B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:IdmdnZ904OYDeGrWnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> On 5/22/2010 5:51 AM, A. Dumas Fred wrote:
>>> http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
>>
>> One of the better pieces on the overall situation that I've read. Adam
>> has put Landis and his situation in perspective, rather eloquently, too.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Myerson has it partly wrong and Floyd has it completely wrong.
>
> If Floyd was going after the system during the last 4 years, he should
> have presented it as such, truthfully. He should not have included the
> "I DIDN'T DOPE" part of the four year crusade. By lying about that part
> of it he ruined his own credibility and with it any chance that he has
> of changing anything.
>
> thanks,
>
> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
Thanks for sharing your "thoughts" with us, Fred.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Shack statements
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/891622678a7f6e7f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 9:04 am
From: Keith


On Fri, 21 May 2010 21:58:56 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>
>Nobody's going to touch Floyd, either to prove blackmail or to use his
>statements against Lance & others.

Apparently the USADA are taking him seriously like anyone interested
in getting to the bottom of this is. Latest news is that two cyclists
have been approached for confirmation of some of his revelations and
wih offers of leniency. I'm guessing these two could be those involved
in the famous SMS conversation, i.e.
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/similar-doping-charges-were-aired-in-2005-web-chat-by-former-armstrong-teammates/?scp=3&sq=landis&st=cse

>He's just gone way to wacko, and everyone
>he's become close to and has sucked into his "rehabilitation" (for lack of a
>better word) has come out destroyed by their efforts.
>
>All Floyd can prove beyond reasonable doubt is that he's a low-quality
>con-man who is much better at wrecking other people's lives than enriching
>his own. That's pretty pathetic.
>
>And yes, by the way, I believed Floyd back in the day.

I never believed in him and can't see how anyone looking at the facts
could have. Remember that all he was fighting for was to have the
carbon exogenous dismissed because he was not at 11:1 in the standard
testo/epo test but in fact 4:1. He was hoping to get off on a
technicality.

Not dissimular to LA and JB dismissing his comments because he's a
liar and supposedly tried to blackmail them. I have yet to see
evidence, of that in spite of the private email these idiots thought
clever to disclose, but it's irrelevant to the facts and they'll have
to come up with an answer before shit hits the fan for them. At long
last I must say.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Poor Brent Kay was delusional and duped by Floyd
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7c46a5f76b32b84c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 9:07 am
From: Amit Ghosh


On May 22, 2:37 am, raamman <raam...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't see why anyone would bring into the "inner-circle" a
> newcomer like FL states LA did when he joined Postal- I don't see why
> LA would be so open and cavalier about such a damning secret.

dumbass,

because among riders it's not a secret.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lemond
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bc2f64af3f18801c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 9:14 am
From: Keith


On Fri, 21 May 2010 18:05:43 -0700, "F. Kurgan Gringioni"
<kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Keith" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:vjvdv5hoci5k18i7mnibhl1ul5joofov7k@4ax.com...
>>
>> Yes, I suspect a lot of immunity is going ot be granted to get to the
>> bottom of this.
>
><snip>
>
>
>Dumbass -
>
>No there isn't. For many reasons. The biggest one being that everything
>happened in Europe. The US Attorneys won't do jack.

Come again, ever heard of Jeff Novitzky ? Now you have
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/similar-doping-charges-were-aired-in-2005-web-chat-by-former-armstrong-teammates/?scp=3&sq=landis&st=cse


== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 9:28 am
From: --D-y


On May 21, 7:23 pm, "K. Fred Gauss"
<Some...@Somewhere.You.Dont.Wanna.Be> wrote:
> --D-y wrote:
> > On May 21, 4:00 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >> On 5/21/2010 4:31 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
>
> >>>http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/05/20/2010-05-20_g...
> >> This is interesting:
>
> >> "In that lawsuit, LeMond subpoenaed Armstrong's ex-wife, Kristin
> >> Armstrong, for a deposition in which she was asked if she ever saw her
> >> ex-husband use performance-enhancing drugs. She did not answer, on
> >> orders from her attorney, Tim Herman, who has represented Lance
> >> Armstrong as well."
>
> >> I suspect that Trek (and Armstrong) were facing a motion to compel
> >> Kristen to answer the question, a motion that would likely be granted.
> >> Tthen the case settled (after a judge ruled the case would go to trial)
> >> and now it's all "confidential."  Lovely.
>
> >> I wonder why Herman direct his client not to answer if the answer was,
> >> "I never saw or had any reason to believe that Lance was using any thing
> >> improper for performance enhancement."
>
> > Lemond = doper profile.
> > He knows he's safe from detection.
> > One of the photos showed him with a hopeful look, but no matter what
> > happens with Lance and Landis, he's never going to get that shining
> > place in bike history back.
> > If for no other reason than the fact that he fits the doper profile
> > <g>.
> > --D-y
>
> We've done this discussion before. There was no doping back in the early
> 90's. And if there was, it didn't count.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythropoietin

Says epo was produced in the mid-80's, by 1985.
There have been other forms of doping.

HGH first produced synthetically in 1981:
http://www.somatropin.net/hgh-history.htm

"Here, take this nice big dose of amphetamine and tell me it doesn't
count".

In the "discussion we've had before", it has been disputed that an
"iron shot" would have effected the massive change in ability, where
Lemond was pack fodder in June and won the TdF in July.

"Fits the doper profile" is the salient point. Who knows if Greg even
knew what was put into his body? Still his responsibility.
--D-y
--D-y


== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 9:35 am
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/22/2010 12:14 PM, Keith wrote:
> On Fri, 21 May 2010 18:05:43 -0700, "F. Kurgan Gringioni"
> <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Keith"<nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:vjvdv5hoci5k18i7mnibhl1ul5joofov7k@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> Yes, I suspect a lot of immunity is going ot be granted to get to the
>>> bottom of this.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>> Dumbass -
>>
>> No there isn't. For many reasons. The biggest one being that everything
>> happened in Europe. The US Attorneys won't do jack.
>
> Come again, ever heard of Jeff Novitzky ? Now you have
> http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/similar-doping-charges-were-aired-in-2005-web-chat-by-former-armstrong-teammates/?scp=3&sq=landis&st=cse
Thanks for the link.


== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 9:42 am
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


--D-y wrote:
> On May 21, 7:23 pm, "K. Fred Gauss"
> <Some...@Somewhere.You.Dont.Wanna.Be> wrote:
>> --D-y wrote:
>>> On May 21, 4:00 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> On 5/21/2010 4:31 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
>>>>> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/05/20/2010-05-20_g...
>>>> This is interesting:
>>>> "In that lawsuit, LeMond subpoenaed Armstrong's ex-wife, Kristin
>>>> Armstrong, for a deposition in which she was asked if she ever saw her
>>>> ex-husband use performance-enhancing drugs. She did not answer, on
>>>> orders from her attorney, Tim Herman, who has represented Lance
>>>> Armstrong as well."
>>>> I suspect that Trek (and Armstrong) were facing a motion to compel
>>>> Kristen to answer the question, a motion that would likely be granted.
>>>> Tthen the case settled (after a judge ruled the case would go to trial)
>>>> and now it's all "confidential." Lovely.
>>>> I wonder why Herman direct his client not to answer if the answer was,
>>>> "I never saw or had any reason to believe that Lance was using any thing
>>>> improper for performance enhancement."
>>> Lemond = doper profile.
>>> He knows he's safe from detection.
>>> One of the photos showed him with a hopeful look, but no matter what
>>> happens with Lance and Landis, he's never going to get that shining
>>> place in bike history back.
>>> If for no other reason than the fact that he fits the doper profile
>>> <g>.
>>> --D-y
>> We've done this discussion before. There was no doping back in the early
>> 90's. And if there was, it didn't count.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythropoietin
>
> Says epo was produced in the mid-80's, by 1985.
> There have been other forms of doping.
>
> HGH first produced synthetically in 1981:
> http://www.somatropin.net/hgh-history.htm
>
> "Here, take this nice big dose of amphetamine and tell me it doesn't
> count".
>
> In the "discussion we've had before", it has been disputed that an
> "iron shot" would have effected the massive change in ability, where
> Lemond was pack fodder in June and won the TdF in July.
>
> "Fits the doper profile" is the salient point. Who knows if Greg even
> knew what was put into his body? Still his responsibility.

So Lemond had access to EPO, had the same motive as LA and Landis (only
without any chance of being caught), and his performance fits the profile?

OK, I'm convinced. It's silly to believe Lemond was clean.


== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 9:41 am
From: "hargow20@yahoo.com"


On May 21, 1:31 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/05/20/2010-05-20_g...

Lemond's & Landis claims seem more like systemic guilt by inuendo..:(


== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 9:43 am
From: Keith


On Sat, 22 May 2010 09:28:30 -0700 (PDT), --D-y <dustoyevsky@mac.com>
wrote:

> > If for no other reason than the fact that he fits the doper profile
>> > <g>.
>> > --D-y
>>
>> We've done this discussion before. There was no doping back in the early
>> 90's. And if there was, it didn't count.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythropoietin
>
>Says epo was produced in the mid-80's, by 1985.
>There have been other forms of doping.
>
>HGH first produced synthetically in 1981:
>http://www.somatropin.net/hgh-history.htm
>
>"Here, take this nice big dose of amphetamine and tell me it doesn't
>count".
>
>In the "discussion we've had before", it has been disputed that an
>"iron shot" would have effected the massive change in ability, where
>Lemond was pack fodder in June and won the TdF in July.

Wrong, read Fignon's book, he recalls Guimard and him were worried
after Lemond won the final ITT in the Giro that year.

>"Fits the doper profile" is the salient point. Who knows if Greg even
>knew what was put into his body? Still his responsibility.
>--D-y
>--D-y

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 11:48 am
From: Uncle Dave


On May 21, 9:31 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/05/20/2010-05-20_g...

I always assumed Lemond must be doping because he was a yank and you
know what a cheating bunch they are. They even make their own
versions of perfectly good sports like rugby and cricket just so they
can be world champions in something...

UD


== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 12:43 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


hargow20@yahoo.com wrote:
> On May 21, 1:31 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/05/20/2010-05-20_g...
>
> Lemond's & Landis claims seem more like systemic guilt by inuendo..:(

Lemond: Yes; Landis: No

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Scott Sunderland leaves team sky.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c30f2fd3580dcbfe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 11:24 am
From: thirty-six


Odd time for an anouncement?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Landis Press Conference Today
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/ddf4256ebab6901d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 11:27 am
From: "B. Lafferty"


Does anyone know where, when and if there might be live coverage?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Floyd Landis Could Be Cycling's Jose Canseco
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/43a256e975de7482?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 12:59 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/21/sportsline/main6506569.shtml


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Re: Medarticles Request

Buzz It
I didn't find a link for it

anand

On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 9:54 PM, enzo245@gmail.com <enzo245@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello
Dear Friends I need this book
Amino Acids, Peptides and Proteins in Organic Chemistry: Volume 1 -
Origins and Synthesis of Amino Acids
2009 Wiley
Thank you

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Medarticles Request

Buzz It
Hello
Dear Friends I need this book
Amino Acids, Peptides and Proteins in Organic Chemistry: Volume 1 -
Origins and Synthesis of Amino Acids
2009 Wiley
Thank you

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rec.bicycles.racing - 26 new messages in 6 topics - digest

Buzz It
rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Hey, where's Allen Lim? - 17 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/795e9be85851966c?hl=en
* Morotized Doping? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c78ad58063d0ada7?hl=en
* Floyd is a nice guy - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/57dd4150d72b160d?hl=en
* Power to the cycle - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/b66b6162ba59930d?hl=en
* Lemond - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bc2f64af3f18801c?hl=en
* Another Landis conspiracy theory - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f72b12913c02f73c?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hey, where's Allen Lim?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/795e9be85851966c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 17 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 12:47 am
From: "F. Kurgan Gringioni"

"B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message

> I have better things to do than keep an
> eye open for what the might say.

No you don't.


== 2 of 17 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 3:36 am
From: Jeff Jones


On May 21, 4:31 am, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hey doctor fucking Allen, how are those Floyd wattage plausability
> calculations going now?  According to my limited brain capacity either
> you knew and you were complicit which makes you as big of an asshole
> as Floyd or you didn't and you're totally incompetent. Which is it?
>
> Your Twitter account got very very quiet today.
>
> Please Inform,
> -DA74

http://video.bicycling.com/video/ATOC-Allen-Lim-addresses-allega


== 3 of 17 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 3:58 am
From: Betty Munro


Andy Coggan wrote:
> Some things - such as the existence of doping in cycling, the
> relationship between VO2 and cycling power output, or your obsession
> with Armstrong - never really change. I can therefore walk away from
> this newsgroup for years and yet come back to find that I haven't
> missed a single thing.

Well Lafferty V2.0 was unveiled with a penchant for Landis, hacking and
a chick called Susan Polger.


== 4 of 17 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 4:03 am
From: Betty Munro


Andy Coggan wrote:
>> You didn't answer my question: why in the world would you expect Coyle
>> to issue any sort of a statement? You could probably count the number
>> of times that he and Armstrong have been in contact on your fingers
>> and toes, and it's not like this is the first time that anyone has
>> accused Armstrong of doping.

K. Fred Gauss wrote:
> So that he could admit that Lafferty was right and he was wrong,
> obviously. Also, that the glove that didn't fit OJ was his. I'm sure
> he'd like to get THAT off his chest.

Ah so LANCE was the real murderer. That clears than one up, now all we
need do is prove HIS father was on the grassy knoll.


== 5 of 17 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 4:10 am
From: Betty Munro


K. Fred Gauss wrote:
>> Those people who disagreed with me
>> for all those years when I said LA was a transvestite alien Nazi will
>> get their comeuppance now!

curtis@the-md-russells.org wrote:
> I was only questioning the 'alien' part.

Perhaps they introduced some alien DNA when they cloned Hitler to make
LANCE.


== 6 of 17 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 4:11 am
From: Betty Munro


derFahrer@gmail.com wrote:
> Whether he recognizes it or not, Lafferty groks irony.

There goes the final frontier.


== 7 of 17 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 4:14 am
From: Betty Munro


Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
> Is there a federal crime involved? Sure, you can get
> practically anyone to commit a crime by having Federal
> agents ask them enough questions that it would be
> embarrassing to answer. The reason we aren't all in jail
> is that Federal agents haven't wasted their time on us yet.

When they finish with Landis/Armstrong the next target will be rbr. Oops
sorry I forget they'll have to do LANCE's wife, mom and Landis's ex and
Coyle and Coggan before they get around to rbr.


== 8 of 17 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 4:19 am
From: Betty Munro


K. Fred Gauss wrote:
> Lim wont be able to avoid answering questions unless he changes his name
> and moves to Tiera del Fuego.

In Lafferties universe Tiera del Fuego could become a real cycling
mecca. Perhaps they might even open a Mellow Johnny's next to the Starbucks.


== 9 of 17 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 5:22 am
From: curtis@the-md-russells.org


On Fri, 21 May 2010 17:06:09 -0700, "K. Fred Gauss"
<Someone@Somewhere.You.Dont.Wanna.Be> wrote:

>curtis@the-md-russells.org wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 May 2010 11:32:24 -0700, "K. Fred Gauss"
>> <Fred@fredlier.than.thou> wrote:
>>
>>> Those people who disagreed with me
>>> for all those years when I said LA was a transvestite alien Nazi will
>>> get their comeuppance now!
>>
>> I was only questioning the 'alien' part.
>
>That's revisionist history, shithead. You also disagreed when I said
>ATSWHATIMTALKINBOUT would win the Kentucky Derby and about LA's favorite
>brand of energy drink. You'd like us all to forget about that, wouldn't
>you? Just wait till the Feds get depositions from the Pakistani guy in
>the 7-11 and FUNNY CIDE. Moron!
>
>ROTFLMAO!!!

Well, the guy in the 7-11 IS an alien. Actually, they all are.

Not that there is anything wrong with that. Except in Arizona, where
7-11s are empty glass monuments with the glass doors swinging in the
wind.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...


== 10 of 17 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 6:04 am
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/22/2010 3:45 AM, F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> "B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>
>> Perhaps Coyle will tell us whether Lance's Tour wins resulted from
>> efficiency or doping or a combination thereof.
>
>
>
> Idiot -
>
> No human being knows the answer to that question. Our knowledge of the
> causes of performance success and failure in sport is way too primitive.
> Some evidence: the large number of busts in the first round of the NFL
> draft, an enterprise which, given the large amount of resources poured
> into it, would be deterministic if the science were there.
>
> thanks,
>
> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
No human being--not even Lance? Your brain isn't aging well, Shithead.


== 11 of 17 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 6:08 am
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/21/2010 9:05 PM, derFahrer@gmail.com wrote:
> On May 21, 6:32 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> ....
>
> ... apparently has grown bored with tilting at chess windmills. From
> Armstrong to Polgar and back to Armstrong again. What, can't find a
> new and different obsession?
>
Yeah, it's kind of boring now that Polgar and Truong have been expelled
from the USCF. Lance and and the rbr denizens are the best clown show in
town.


== 12 of 17 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 6:10 am
From: Andy Coggan


On May 22, 12:05 am, "K. Fred Gauss"
<Some...@Somewhere.You.Dont.Wanna.Be> wrote:
> DA74 wrote:
> > On May 21, 8:24 pm, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> On May 21, 7:55 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On 5/21/2010 8:16 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:
> >>>> On May 21, 4:53 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com>  wrote:
> >>>>> On 5/21/2010 5:25 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:>  On May 21, 4:23 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com>    wrote:
> >>>>>>> To get back to the topic of the thread, has there been any statement
> >>>>>>> from Lim?  Any statement from Coyle?
> >>>>>> Why would you expect any statement from Coyle? That's like expecting
> >>>>>> Armstrong's 3rd grade teacher to come forward at this juncture.
> >>>>>> Andy Coggan
> >>>>> Wrong, Andy.  I suspect they are both keeping quiet on advice of
> >>>>> counsel. While I don't expect statements from them anytime soon, I hope
> >>>>> people will post links here should they break the silence.
> >>>> You didn't answer my question: why in the world would you expect Coyle
> >>>> to issue any sort of a statement? You could probably count the number
> >>>> of times that he and Armstrong have been in contact on your fingers
> >>>> and toes, and it's not like this is the first time that anyone has
> >>>> accused Armstrong of doping.
> >>>> Let's take it one step further: assume that the accusations Landis has
> >>>> made prove to be true...why would Coyle issue any sort of statement
> >>>> even then??
> >>>> Andy Coggan
> >>> Please show us where I ever said that I expected Coyle or Lim to make a
> >>> statement?
> >> I guess I formed that impression when when you asked whether either of
> >> them had made a statement, as if you were expecting one:
>
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/646093074cb2e2f2
>
> >> Of course, if you *weren't* expecting one, I have absolutely zero idea
> >> why it ever occurred to you to ask that quesion...
>
> >> Andy Coggan- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Listen Cogster - Quit dicking around here. The bottom line is that
> > "Dr." Allen Lim should absolutely make a statement. Floyd accused him
> > of providing blood transfusions to not only himself but Levi
> > Leipheimer. I think the esteemed "physiologist" who spilled copious
> > amounts of digital and conventional ink to defend Floyd's unbelievable
> > performance in the Tour with graphs and charts and mathematical
> > calculations would be champing at the bit to respond.
>
> > The guy he spent months or even years defending has turned around and
> > accused him of performing medical procedures without a medical license
> > and conspiring to cheat in bicycle races.
>
> > I can't imagine any scenario where an innocent person wouldn't at
> > least immediately deny allegations as devastatingly serious as these
> > especially with such a simple and easy way to communicate with the
> > public like Twitter, which he used so prolifically until May 18th.
>
> > Fucking wake up man.
>
> Coggan's question was "Why would you expect any statement from Coyle?".
> Unless I'm mistaken, Lim is not Coyle. If I am mistaken, these guys are
> even trickier than I thought.


Reading comprehension is apparently no more DA74's strong suit than
logic is Lafferty's.

Andy Coggan


== 13 of 17 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 6:12 am
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/22/2010 6:58 AM, Betty Munro wrote:
> Andy Coggan wrote:
>> Some things - such as the existence of doping in cycling, the
>> relationship between VO2 and cycling power output, or your obsession
>> with Armstrong - never really change. I can therefore walk away from
>> this newsgroup for years and yet come back to find that I haven't
>> missed a single thing.
>
> Well Lafferty V2.0 was unveiled with a penchant for Landis, hacking and
> a chick called Susan Polger.
Hacking indeed. Polgar's webmaster Gregory Alexander was rather shocked
when the Secret Service handcuffed him and took him away. His case is
still winding its way through the Federal criminal court system. We're
all waiting to see if he can cut a deal for a plea. :-)


== 14 of 17 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 6:15 am
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/22/2010 3:47 AM, F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> "B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> I have better things to do than keep an eye open for what the might say.
>
>
>
> No you don't.
You're such a dickhead, Kurgan. Carry on. :-)


== 15 of 17 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 6:17 am
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/22/2010 6:36 AM, Jeff Jones wrote:
> On May 21, 4:31 am, DA74<davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey doctor fucking Allen, how are those Floyd wattage plausability
>> calculations going now? According to my limited brain capacity either
>> you knew and you were complicit which makes you as big of an asshole
>> as Floyd or you didn't and you're totally incompetent. Which is it?
>>
>> Your Twitter account got very very quiet today.
>>
>> Please Inform,
>> -DA74
>
> http://video.bicycling.com/video/ATOC-Allen-Lim-addresses-allega

Thanks for the link. :-)


== 16 of 17 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 6:19 am
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/22/2010 9:10 AM, Andy Coggan wrote:
> On May 22, 12:05 am, "K. Fred Gauss"
> <Some...@Somewhere.You.Dont.Wanna.Be> wrote:
>> DA74 wrote:
>>> On May 21, 8:24 pm, Andy Coggan<acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> On May 21, 7:55 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> On 5/21/2010 8:16 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:
>>>>>> On May 21, 4:53 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/21/2010 5:25 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:> On May 21, 4:23 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> To get back to the topic of the thread, has there been any statement
>>>>>>>>> from Lim? Any statement from Coyle?
>>>>>>>> Why would you expect any statement from Coyle? That's like expecting
>>>>>>>> Armstrong's 3rd grade teacher to come forward at this juncture.
>>>>>>>> Andy Coggan
>>>>>>> Wrong, Andy. I suspect they are both keeping quiet on advice of
>>>>>>> counsel. While I don't expect statements from them anytime soon, I hope
>>>>>>> people will post links here should they break the silence.
>>>>>> You didn't answer my question: why in the world would you expect Coyle
>>>>>> to issue any sort of a statement? You could probably count the number
>>>>>> of times that he and Armstrong have been in contact on your fingers
>>>>>> and toes, and it's not like this is the first time that anyone has
>>>>>> accused Armstrong of doping.
>>>>>> Let's take it one step further: assume that the accusations Landis has
>>>>>> made prove to be true...why would Coyle issue any sort of statement
>>>>>> even then??
>>>>>> Andy Coggan
>>>>> Please show us where I ever said that I expected Coyle or Lim to make a
>>>>> statement?
>>>> I guess I formed that impression when when you asked whether either of
>>>> them had made a statement, as if you were expecting one:
>>
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/646093074cb2e2f2
>>
>>>> Of course, if you *weren't* expecting one, I have absolutely zero idea
>>>> why it ever occurred to you to ask that quesion...
>>
>>>> Andy Coggan- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>> Listen Cogster - Quit dicking around here. The bottom line is that
>>> "Dr." Allen Lim should absolutely make a statement. Floyd accused him
>>> of providing blood transfusions to not only himself but Levi
>>> Leipheimer. I think the esteemed "physiologist" who spilled copious
>>> amounts of digital and conventional ink to defend Floyd's unbelievable
>>> performance in the Tour with graphs and charts and mathematical
>>> calculations would be champing at the bit to respond.
>>
>>> The guy he spent months or even years defending has turned around and
>>> accused him of performing medical procedures without a medical license
>>> and conspiring to cheat in bicycle races.
>>
>>> I can't imagine any scenario where an innocent person wouldn't at
>>> least immediately deny allegations as devastatingly serious as these
>>> especially with such a simple and easy way to communicate with the
>>> public like Twitter, which he used so prolifically until May 18th.
>>
>>> Fucking wake up man.
>>
>> Coggan's question was "Why would you expect any statement from Coyle?".
>> Unless I'm mistaken, Lim is not Coyle. If I am mistaken, these guys are
>> even trickier than I thought.
>
>
> Reading comprehension is apparently no more DA74's strong suit than
> logic is Lafferty's.
>
> Andy Coggan
Now that's a funny statement. :-)


== 17 of 17 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 6:24 am
From: Betty Munro


Andy Coggan wrote:
> Reading comprehension is apparently no more DA74's strong suit than
> logic is Lafferty's.

Bug can be undocumented feature.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Morotized Doping?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c78ad58063d0ada7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 12:51 am
From: "F. Kurgan Gringioni"

"Frederick the Great" <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:rubrum-]
>
> I still have no clue about the servo mechanism controlling
> the power output of the motor. Since the motor drives the
> rear cluster directly, it needs to back off for shifting.

Dumbass -

No need for a servo. Just need on/off when shifting.

A servo is way more than is needed for this application. Simple 100 watts or
0 watts will work just fine.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 3:48 am
From: Betty Munro


dave a wrote:
>> Why is it way worse than doping? Are you suggesting that there are
>> degrees of cheating?

Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
> Anyway, there is another issue on principle. Doping
> doesn't turn donkeys into racehorses. They still have to
> train hard, in fact many doping programs are about
> amplifying the riders' recovery so they can train harder.
> On the other hand, there's no real limit to what putting
> a motor into a BB could do.

Exactement

> E-bikes are a little like if some NFL linemen started sneaking
> baseball bats to the line of scrimmage.

Unfortunately IBike is already taken.

> Fredmaster Ben
> I'm just jealous because my bike isn't one of those fat-tubed
> aluminum things that can hide more battery packs.

The return of Cannondale (come to think of it they did have a brief
dalliance with motorized devices). And being a true geek I'm sure you'd
love this one (at least the colour scheme is an improvement on your
current retro bike):
<http://cgi.ebay.com/Cannondale-CAAD-4-Aero-Triathlon-TT-Frame-/160436944039?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item255ac97ca7>


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Floyd is a nice guy
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/57dd4150d72b160d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 2:51 am
From: "A. Dumas Fred"


http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 7:09 am
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/22/2010 5:51 AM, A. Dumas Fred wrote:
> http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd

One of the better pieces on the overall situation that I've read. Adam
has put Landis and his situation in perspective, rather eloquently, too.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 8:00 am
From: "F. Kurgan Gringioni"

"B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:IdmdnZ904OYDeGrWnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@giganews.com...
> On 5/22/2010 5:51 AM, A. Dumas Fred wrote:
>> http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
>
> One of the better pieces on the overall situation that I've read. Adam
> has put Landis and his situation in perspective, rather eloquently, too.

Dumbass -

Myerson has it partly wrong and Floyd has it completely wrong.

If Floyd was going after the system during the last 4 years, he should have
presented it as such, truthfully. He should not have included the "I DIDN'T
DOPE" part of the four year crusade. By lying about that part of it he
ruined his own credibility and with it any chance that he has of changing
anything.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Power to the cycle
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/b66b6162ba59930d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 3:50 am
From: Betty Munro


dardruba wrote:
>>>> So whats this talk on Eurosport of a 100 watt power unit in the down
>>>> tube, a drive inside the bottom bracket and a switch under the
>>>> saddle. Is it possible and could it have been used in this seasons
>>>> early classics without detection?

Anton Berlin wrote:
>>> Yes, Cadel Evans used one to conserve power then swapped out bikes
>>> before the finish.

Betty Munro wrote:
>> Can they be implanted in silicone breasts ?

Steve Freides wrote:
> You aren't suggesting Liz Hatch uses this device, are you?

Apparently there are some issues with the drivetrain biofeedback loop.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lemond
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bc2f64af3f18801c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 4:00 am
From: Betty Munro


B. Lafferty wrote:
> They might even just give the grant of immunity up front because she really isn't a
> player in all of this with Lance.

Will HIS mom also get immunity ?


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 6:20 am
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/21/2010 10:10 PM, Frederick the Great wrote:
> In article<06adnT25besbaWvWnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> "B. Lafferty"<bl@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/21/2010 4:31 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
>>> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/05/20/2010-05-20_greg_lemond_believes_most_of_floyd_landis_statements_about_doping_in_cycling.html
>>
>> This is interesting:
>>
>> "In that lawsuit, LeMond subpoenaed Armstrong's ex-wife, Kristin
>> Armstrong, for a deposition in which she was asked if she ever saw her
>> ex-husband use performance-enhancing drugs. She did not answer, on
>> orders from her attorney, Tim Herman, who has represented Lance
>> Armstrong as well."
>>
>> I suspect that Trek (and Armstrong) were facing a motion to compel
>> Kristen to answer the question, a motion that would likely be granted.
>> Tthen the case settled (after a judge ruled the case would go to trial)
>> and now it's all "confidential." Lovely.
>>
>> I wonder why Herman direct his client not to answer if the answer was,
>> "I never saw or had any reason to believe that Lance was using any thing
>> improper for performance enhancement."
>
> The answer is a new concept for you:
>
> It was none of their business.
>
Spoken like a true idiot. Carry on. :-)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Another Landis conspiracy theory
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f72b12913c02f73c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 4:28 am
From: Betty Munro


William Fred wrote:
>>> It's not about doping, Landis was paid to do this by Giganews as part
>>> of their long-term plan to revive usenet. They're starting with rbr.

Betty Munro <none@mailinator.com> wrote:
>> Necrophilia is dead boring.

William Fred wrote:
> You mean it's like getting a rise into the dead?

Or cracking open a cold one.


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