Tuesday, May 25, 2010

rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

Buzz It
rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* rbr knows that the other shoe will drop soon ... Flandis has brought down
LANCE Inc. - 7 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/134f2f799885d4dc?hl=en
* EPO Microdosing - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/769c62da65b66fa7?hl=en
* LANCE even late in paying his bribes ... er, 'donations' - 3 messages, 3
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e7dec63feaa7e69b?hl=en
* Still in Lance's Innocence Camp ? - 7 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/791f129b5933acea?hl=en
* Has Anyone Noticed... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/833239d68598c3f8?hl=en
* would it be possible for one of you rbr graph geeks - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/119bdcf10c03eb4c?hl=en
* Monomaniacs have infiltrated the gubment - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5971e49c8f1c181a?hl=en
* Playboy at the Giro - Say What!? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/02d1d162c8503e60?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: rbr knows that the other shoe will drop soon ... Flandis has brought
down LANCE Inc.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/134f2f799885d4dc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 11:56 am
From: "F. Kurgan Gringioni"

"B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message >>
>> Dumbass -
>>
>> You're very welcome.
>>
>> How much did you donate?
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>
> Nothing. And you?


Dumbass -

Nothing.

I did, however, buy three copies of "Posivitely False" last week, online.
They were new and the cheapest one cost $0.49. Fucking hilarious.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 12:14 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/25/2010 2:56 PM, F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> "B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message >>
>>> Dumbass -
>>>
>>> You're very welcome.
>>>
>>> How much did you donate?
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>>
>>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>>
>> Nothing. And you?
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Nothing.
>
> I did, however, buy three copies of "Posivitely False" last week,
> online. They were new and the cheapest one cost $0.49. Fucking hilarious.
>
> thanks,
>
> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
Looks like you have the "Positively False" market cornered.


== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 2:33 pm
From: "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."


On May 25, 12:14 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 5/25/2010 2:56 PM, F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message >>
> >>> Dumbass -
>
> >>> You're very welcome.
>
> >>> How much did you donate?
>
> >>> thanks,
>
> >>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>
> >> Nothing. And you?
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > Nothing.
>
> > I did, however, buy three copies of "Posivitely False" last week,
> > online. They were new and the cheapest one cost $0.49. Fucking hilarious.
>
> > thanks,
>
> > Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>
> Looks like you have the "Positively False" market cornered.

Dumbass -

They'll make good gag gifts for my cycling buddies.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.


== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 2:36 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/25/2010 5:33 PM, Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. wrote:
> On May 25, 12:14 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On 5/25/2010 2:56 PM, F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message>>
>>>>> Dumbass -
>>
>>>>> You're very welcome.
>>
>>>>> How much did you donate?
>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>
>>>>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>>
>>>> Nothing. And you?
>>
>>> Dumbass -
>>
>>> Nothing.
>>
>>> I did, however, buy three copies of "Posivitely False" last week,
>>> online. They were new and the cheapest one cost $0.49. Fucking hilarious.
>>
>>> thanks,
>>
>>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>>
>> Looks like you have the "Positively False" market cornered.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> They'll make good gag gifts for my cycling buddies.
>
> thanks,
>
> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
You really have buddies??!!


== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 3:34 pm
From: "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."


On May 25, 2:36 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 5/25/2010 5:33 PM, Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 25, 12:14 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com>  wrote:
> >> On 5/25/2010 2:56 PM, F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> >>> "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com>  wrote in message>>
> >>>>> Dumbass -
>
> >>>>> You're very welcome.
>
> >>>>> How much did you donate?
>
> >>>>> thanks,
>
> >>>>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>
> >>>> Nothing. And you?
>
> >>> Dumbass -
>
> >>> Nothing.
>
> >>> I did, however, buy three copies of "Posivitely False" last week,
> >>> online. They were new and the cheapest one cost $0.49. Fucking hilarious.
>
> >>> thanks,
>
> >>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>
> >> Looks like you have the "Positively False" market cornered.
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > They'll make good gag gifts for my cycling buddies.
>
> > thanks,
>
> > Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>
> You really have buddies??!!

Dumbass -

I know it's hard to believe, but yes.

I'm actually getting together with someone from rbr tonite. We're
gonna show off our fleshlights, then use them while fantasizing about
h squared.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.


== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 4:19 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


B. Lafferty wrote:
> On 5/25/2010 1:18 PM, F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>
>> "B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:G4KdneTONd98mGHWnZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> On 5/25/2010 11:35 AM, F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "raamman" <raamman@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4fec21bc-75ac-4524-a8fe-...
>>>>
>>>> :: after the Feds look further into his claim and determine it was all
>>>> :: made up Floyd will be going away for awhile.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dumbass -
>>>>
>>>> It's impossible to prove that Floyd made it all up.
>>>>
>>>> If it were possible, however, it would show that everyone who
>>>> donated to
>>>> the Floyd Fairness Fund was ripped off. He lied to them.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>>> Thanks for sharing your hard on for the Floyd Fairness Fund, Fred.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dumbass -
>>
>> You're very welcome.
>>
>> How much did you donate?
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>
> Nothing. And you?

I remember that you were CERTAIN Floyd was clean all throughout the 2006
TdF on the basis of his nonrobotness. When did you figure out that
your evaluation methodology was fucked up?


== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 4:54 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/25/2010 6:34 PM, Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. wrote:
> On May 25, 2:36 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On 5/25/2010 5:33 PM, Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On May 25, 12:14 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> On 5/25/2010 2:56 PM, F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>
>>>>> "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message>>
>>>>>>> Dumbass -
>>
>>>>>>> You're very welcome.
>>
>>>>>>> How much did you donate?
>>
>>>>>>> thanks,
>>
>>>>>>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>>
>>>>>> Nothing. And you?
>>
>>>>> Dumbass -
>>
>>>>> Nothing.
>>
>>>>> I did, however, buy three copies of "Posivitely False" last week,
>>>>> online. They were new and the cheapest one cost $0.49. Fucking hilarious.
>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>
>>>>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>>
>>>> Looks like you have the "Positively False" market cornered.
>>
>>> Dumbass -
>>
>>> They'll make good gag gifts for my cycling buddies.
>>
>>> thanks,
>>
>>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>>
>> You really have buddies??!!
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> I know it's hard to believe, but yes.
>
> I'm actually getting together with someone from rbr tonite. We're
> gonna show off our fleshlights, then use them while fantasizing about
> h squared.
>
> thanks,
>
> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
Very hard to believe. Hopefully one of your buddies will bring some anal
beads. Have fun.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: EPO Microdosing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/769c62da65b66fa7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 12:39 pm
From: Jim Feeley


On 5/25/10 9:51 AM, in article htgv63$pcs$1@news.eternal-september.org,
"Fred on a stick" <anonymous.coward@address.invalid> wrote:

> Brad Anders wrote:
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/sports/cycling/26micro.html
>
> From that article:
> "An earlier version of this article confused hematocrit with hemoglobin in
> several instances."

Sigh. This stuff isn't that hard to understand, even for a dumbass like me.

I wish reporters would do a little more homework before they publish.

Jim

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 4:43 pm
From: Amit Ghosh


On May 25, 11:49 am, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/sports/cycling/26micro.html

dumbass,

another advantage with microdosing it that it's cheaper than regular
dosing.

most master fatties though are into super-sizing.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: LANCE even late in paying his bribes ... er, 'donations'
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e7dec63feaa7e69b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 1:26 pm
From: bar


On May 25, 1:05 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 25, 10:48 am, bar <barbari...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "[McQuaid] refused comparisons with a football team perhaps making a
> > donation to a match referee but embarrassingly admitted that despite
> > promising the $100,000 in April of 2002, Armstrong only paid up in
> > 2005 after the UCI sent him a reminder of payment."
>
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-acknowledges-accepting-armstr...
>
> GOD DAMN EMBARRASSING.
>
> I'm ashamed that these morans are in charge of this sport.
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/solon7766/Political/moranstcharlesmo.jpg

more embarrassing than that sign are those fucking mullets. but then,
at least now we know what Laurent Brochard has been up to ... that's
clearly him on the left.


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 2:19 pm
From: Betty Munro


Keith wrote:
>> 2002, eh ? Interesting because that ties in with Floyd's
>> statement...sounds to me like the deal was "I'll give you money if you
>> leave me alone until I retire".

RicodJour wrote:
> You're tone deaf.

Is there an aural equivalent of colour blind ?


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 7:18 pm
From: RobertH


On May 25, 9:48 am, bar <barbari...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "[McQuaid] refused comparisons with a football team perhaps making a
> donation to a match referee but embarrassingly admitted that despite
> promising the $100,000 in April of 2002, Armstrong only paid up in
> 2005 after the UCI sent him a reminder of payment."
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-acknowledges-accepting-armstr...

"He said he was convinced that most of the riders are now competing
cleanly but was forced to make a damn admission that it might not have
been the case just three of four years ago."

It really says that.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Still in Lance's Innocence Camp ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/791f129b5933acea?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 3:26 pm
From: Anton Berlin


On May 25, 1:04 pm, Frederick the Great <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <9e4e50f7-0080-411c-94ef-75807b9cf...@y21g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
>  Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > The oceans of so called 'circumstantial evidence', ex-teammates and
> > contemporaries caught red handed, money paid to the governing body
> > (why the only cyclist ever to do this?) Floyd's confession, Strock
> > testimony and evidence, Carmichael and USCF settlement, the steroid
> > positive, the positive EPO findings on A samples, microdosing
> > techniques and somehow you still believe Lance Armstrong is clean?
>
> > Stand up be counted.  Post your denials and delusions here.
>
> How about you naming names?
> When did you stop believing LANCE was clean?
>
> --
> Old Fritz

Sometime in the early 90s while he was at the OTC.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 3:31 pm
From: Anton Berlin


On May 25, 1:34 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> IMO, it's impossible to name any current pro male cyclist that you're
> certain is not doping or has never doped in the past. You can't depend
> on "clean" test results, nor does anyone's "word" mean anything. Given
> this situation (which I don't see ever changing), the only way I've
> found that I can remain interested in bike racing is to assume that
> everyone who is racing is doing what's required to level the playing
> field, and that what I'm watching is a fair game. Those that make
> mistakes, or go too far in trying to gain an advantage, risk detection
> and draconian sanctions. Maybe Lance is approaching that point, maybe
> not.
>
> Brad Anders

Agreed. But Lance (way more than Floyd) could fix the sport - or
maybe not.

I like Henry's POV - we like to see the drama and who cares if it's
played out at 15.3 or 18.7 MPH in the cols?

But there is something most would wannabes want to know - where do I
compare to the pros? We (golf, cycling, etc) can use the same
equipment and some of us can even train to the same degree but this
bullshit doping really kills the sport because some think "it's not
worth it" and others think "what's the use?"

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 3:37 pm
From: "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."


On May 25, 3:31 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 25, 1:34 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > IMO, it's impossible to name any current pro male cyclist that you're
> > certain is not doping or has never doped in the past. You can't depend
> > on "clean" test results, nor does anyone's "word" mean anything. Given
> > this situation (which I don't see ever changing), the only way I've
> > found that I can remain interested in bike racing is to assume that
> > everyone who is racing is doing what's required to level the playing
> > field, and that what I'm watching is a fair game. Those that make
> > mistakes, or go too far in trying to gain an advantage, risk detection
> > and draconian sanctions. Maybe Lance is approaching that point, maybe
> > not.
>
> > Brad Anders
>
> Agreed.  But Lance (way more than Floyd) could fix the sport - or
> maybe not.

Dumbass -

I disagree with that.

I think it's impossible to get rid of doping in sport simply because
the society in which the sports reside is full of doping.

Alcohol, nicotine, THC, caffeine, birth control hormones, viagra,
zoloft, ritalin, adderal, valium, oxycontin, yada, yada, yada.

People like their chemicals.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.


== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 3:50 pm
From: --D-y


On May 25, 5:37 pm, "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."
<kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 25, 3:31 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 25, 1:34 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > IMO, it's impossible to name any current pro male cyclist that you're
> > > certain is not doping or has never doped in the past. You can't depend
> > > on "clean" test results, nor does anyone's "word" mean anything. Given
> > > this situation (which I don't see ever changing), the only way I've
> > > found that I can remain interested in bike racing is to assume that
> > > everyone who is racing is doing what's required to level the playing
> > > field, and that what I'm watching is a fair game. Those that make
> > > mistakes, or go too far in trying to gain an advantage, risk detection
> > > and draconian sanctions. Maybe Lance is approaching that point, maybe
> > > not.
>
> > > Brad Anders
>
> > Agreed.  But Lance (way more than Floyd) could fix the sport - or
> > maybe not.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> I disagree with that.
>
> I think it's impossible to get rid of doping in sport simply because
> the society in which the sports reside is full of doping.
>
> Alcohol, nicotine, THC, caffeine, birth control hormones, viagra,
> zoloft, ritalin, adderal, valium, oxycontin, yada, yada, yada.
>
> People like their chemicals.

People are rumored to dope with dangerous stuff in order to win
parking lot crits.
Add in lots of money, prestige, name in books, ability to mate with
whomever you want, etc.
Also, what is "fair"? Should Bernard or Eddy have had to carry
weighted panniers?

Not to mention, look at all the "better living through chemistry"
research is being kept secret because it is "illegal".
The rulemakers indirectly caused those EPO deaths among doper bike
racers.

Also mentioning that riding GT's is not good for the health. There is
a valid argument for riders "caring for themselves".
<http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/pages/articleviewer.aspx?
year=2006&issue=06000&article=00005&type=abstract
>
--D-y


== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 4:33 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


Anton Berlin wrote:
> The oceans of so called 'circumstantial evidence', ex-teammates and
> contemporaries caught red handed, money paid to the governing body
> (why the only cyclist ever to do this?) Floyd's confession, Strock
> testimony and evidence, Carmichael and USCF settlement, the steroid
> positive, the positive EPO findings on A samples, microdosing
> techniques and somehow you still believe Lance Armstrong is clean?
>
> Stand up be counted. Post your denials and delusions here.

Many people believe Armstrong doped and Lemond is a bit crazy and that
Landis is vindictive. These are not mutually exclusive positions.


== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 5:17 pm
From: Brad Anders


On May 25, 3:37 pm, "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."
<kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 25, 3:31 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 25, 1:34 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > IMO, it's impossible to name any current pro male cyclist that you're
> > > certain is not doping or has never doped in the past. You can't depend
> > > on "clean" test results, nor does anyone's "word" mean anything. Given
> > > this situation (which I don't see ever changing), the only way I've
> > > found that I can remain interested in bike racing is to assume that
> > > everyone who is racing is doing what's required to level the playing
> > > field, and that what I'm watching is a fair game. Those that make
> > > mistakes, or go too far in trying to gain an advantage, risk detection
> > > and draconian sanctions. Maybe Lance is approaching that point, maybe
> > > not.
>
> > > Brad Anders
>
> > Agreed.  But Lance (way more than Floyd) could fix the sport - or
> > maybe not.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> I disagree with that.
>
> I think it's impossible to get rid of doping in sport simply because
> the society in which the sports reside is full of doping.
>
> Alcohol, nicotine, THC, caffeine, birth control hormones, viagra,
> zoloft, ritalin, adderal, valium, oxycontin, yada, yada, yada.
>
> People like their chemicals.
>
> thanks,
>
> Fred. presented by Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I agree, I don't see doping going away - ever. Testing can never
assure that any sport is "clean", because there are protocols that can
be used (see my other post on "EPO microdosing") that render
detectable drugs essentially undetectable, and there are likely to be
more drugs and methods that emerge that will not be detectable at all.
As you say, people like their chemicals. Worse yet, we're sitting on
the cusp of the potential for the use of genetic engineering as
applied to sport.

The other issue is that the kind of altruistic world where athletes
would compete "clean" because it's the "right thing to do" is a
fantasy. As D-y said, you've got people juicing to win parking lot
crits. Hell, I've had people pull moves on me in races that were
incredibly dangerous, just to win a fucking T-shirt. Give guys the
chance to stand on the podium in Paris if they can squeek by the
testers using juice? Plenty will take the chance and plenty already
have.

What's the solution? There isn't one. You aren't going to get rid of
drugs, and because of political and legal pressures, you can't just
turn off testing and let it be a free-for-all. I prefer to look at
testing as keeping a leash on those that are going beyond leveling the
playing field, or weeding out the idiots who can't manage their
medical program. Given this state of affairs, I'm happy to watch any
pro cycling event and assume everyone who is racing is informed of the
risks and benefits, and has made their own decisions. Can't say I'd
rather be in their place, nor do I care to compare my pathetic efforts
on the bike to them, either.

Brad Anders


== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 6:23 pm
From: Anton Berlin


My solution -

1. outside agency with no vested interests to conduct all testing and
rulings,

2. some high % (80-90) of winnings and endorsements placed in a trust
for some set period ( 5-7 years) , only released after all samples are
retested with new technology and knowledge. forfeited funds go to
clean riders proportionately that raced and placed in the same period

3. retroactive tests mean forfeiture of all funds, single elimination
for lifetime but with multi-level tests on positives (a and b and at
redundant labs)

4. the elimination of all medical exclusions - doesn't allow a cheat
to get a note from the dr before or after the fact - fuck em, they
should have picked better parents

5. the return of the racing bike - no more specialty bikes for tts,
hill climbs etc - just a regular road bike and with the current
regulations.

6. lastly as a fatty master all riders have to ballast their machines
to an equal weight ( if it's good enugh for nascar it's good enough
for the tour de france. - alright schlecks lets see how you climb
that mountain now. )


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Has Anyone Noticed...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/833239d68598c3f8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 3:57 pm
From: raamman


On May 25, 2:41 pm, "Mark J." <MarkUse...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Fred Flintstein wrote:
> > CFE's team (BMC) has lost 4 riders. No other team
> > has lost that many.
>
> > Vino's (Astana) team has lost 3 riders.
>
> Four, actually:  Tiralongo on stage 6, then three more on stage 11,
> per Bob Martin's reports.  (Thanks, Bob!)
>
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rvmartin2/Giro-d%27Italia_10_16.html
>
> > Duran's team (Caisse d'Epargne) has lost a single rider.
> > Sastre's team (Cervélo) is intact.
> > Basso and Nibali's team (Liquigas) is intact.
>
> > CFE and Vino will likely be alone when things hit the
> > fan. Other riders will likely not be.
>
> On the Grappa stage Liquigas played things very well, with Nibali away,
> Evans had to chase while Basso sat in and got some rest for the next
> day's Zoncalan stage.
>
> But it's also true that on the Zoncalan stage, the Liquigas train looked
> to help Evans just as much as Basso - shed all but the big boys, then
> leave it to Evans and Basso to fight it out.
>
> Mark J.

Cervelo is completely intact with 9 riders; but theres not much talk
of them for the overall- Evans is, at least earning his pay.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: would it be possible for one of you rbr graph geeks
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/119bdcf10c03eb4c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 4:40 pm
From: bar


to whip us up a chart comparing the finishing times/speeds/etc. of top
finishers from this year's ascent of Plan de Corones and that of 2008?

"I took it easy when it wasn't steep and I sprinted when it was hard,"
Garzelli said. "For the gravelled road the smallest possible gear:
34x29. When I saw my time at the finish, one minute behind
Pellizotti's two years ago, I thought I had done really well. Maybe
the GC contenders have started too strong on the Passo Furcia."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/93rd-giro-ditalia-gt/stage-16/results

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Monomaniacs have infiltrated the gubment
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5971e49c8f1c181a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 8:00 pm
From: Ben Trovato

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/sports/cycling/26cycling.html

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 8:19 pm
From: dave a


On 5/25/2010 8:00 PM, Ben Trovato wrote:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/sports/cycling/26cycling.html
>

Investigating US Postal team from 1996-2004? What's the statute of
limitations on fraud? If it's seven years, they better hurry.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 8:53 pm
From: Anton Berlin


On May 25, 10:19 pm, dave a <blkcatREMOVET...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/25/2010 8:00 PM, Ben Trovato wrote:
>
>
>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/sports/cycling/26cycling.html
>
> Investigating US Postal team from 1996-2004?  What's the statute of
> limitations on fraud?  If it's seven years, they better hurry.

The SCA case was more recent - I was interviewed by SCA attorneys in
2004-05

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Playboy at the Giro - Say What!?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/02d1d162c8503e60?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 8:27 pm
From: TheCoz


http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/cgi/gallerypicget.asp?pic=http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/babes/babes10/giro10-miss05.jpg

Coz


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alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets - 26 new messages in 6 topics - digest

Buzz It
alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets?hl=en

alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Slauson - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/945dc808f95fcd66?hl=en
* Gulp... head-scratcher becoming a chronic problem? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/b38eb7de57ab296b?hl=en
* 2014 Superbowl in NY Metro area ??? - 17 messages, 9 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/c1272d3bd50de6fa?hl=en
* Brodney Pool: '05 Second Round Pick - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/b01e52a7adbef479?hl=en
* Stupid question about the new stadium's name - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/77fe32f3e0cf1ba7?hl=en
* 2014 Superbowl = First EVER in NY/NJ!!! - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/8f9ea1d341d4bee1?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Slauson
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/945dc808f95fcd66?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, May 24 2010 7:36 pm
From: MZ


papa.carl44 wrote:
> "MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote in message
> news:eZednWXJaeO9f2_WnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Michael wrote:
>>> On May 18, 12:21 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>>>> Michael wrote:
>>>>> On May 18, 11:40 am, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>>>>>> Michael wrote:
>>>>>>> On May 18, 10:36 am, Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I forgot all about Callahan's ties to Nebraska. I hope he is right
>>>>>>>> about this. If he could win the starter's job while Ducasse
>>>>>>>> develops.
>>>>>>>> Ducasse could be an answer at RT and an older part of the team gets
>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>> younger.
>>>>>>>> http://www.newyorkjets.com/blog/posts/1628-slauson-boldly-takes-aim-a...
>>>>>>>> Slauson Boldly Takes Aim at Starting LG Job
>>>>>>>> Published: Thu, May 13, 2010 - 1:48pm ET
>>>>>>>> Randy Lange
>>>>>>>> By Randy Lange
>>>>>>>> Lange is editor-in-chief of newyorkjets.com. He covered the Jets for
>>>>>>>> 13
>>>>>>>> years for The Record of Hackensack, N.J.
>>>>>>>> File Under: Darrelle Revis, Jason Taylor, Brandon Moore, Bill
>>>>>>>> Callahan,
>>>>>>>> Alan Faneca, Kris Jenkins, Matt Slauson
>>>>>>>> change font email article
>>>>>>>> 05/13 — Matt Slauson does not look at all like a man on the hot
>>>>>>>> seat.
>>>>>>>> The second-year guard stood in the middle of the Atlantic Health
>>>>>>>> Jets
>>>>>>>> Training Center locker room on his way to the shower (tastefully
>>>>>>>> clothed, of course) and talked calmly and coolly about the
>>>>>>>> opportunity
>>>>>>>> that could be ahead for him in the coming season.
>>>>>>>> "Right now I'm listed as a starter-slash-backup because I'm
>>>>>>>> competing
>>>>>>>> for a starting job, obviously with Vlad," said Slauson, "Vlad" being
>>>>>>>> second-round rookie Vladimir Ducasse and "job" being the left guard
>>>>>>>> spot
>>>>>>>> vacated with the departure of veteran Alan Faneca. "I don't know how
>>>>>>>> things are going to play out, but I know know this opportunity and I
>>>>>>>> plan to make the most of it."
>>>>>>>> But shouldn't this young man be nervous? The Jets' offensive line,
>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>> had been intact for two full seasons, gained recognition in 2009 as
>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>> of the NFL's best units as it helped pave the way for the league's
>>>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>>> 1-ranked rushing offense. And now there's an opening.
>>>>>>>> Yet Slauson's quiet confidence has several sources. The 6'5",
>>>>>>>> 315-pounder isn't exactly new to surviving and being adaptable in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> football spotlight, having started 32 games combined at three
>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>> positions (RG, RT, LT) at Nebraska.
>>>>>>>> And his head coach for his first three seasons at Nebraska is the
>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>> as his line coach for his two seasons as a Jet: Bill Callahan. "He's
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> best in the business," Slauson said. "I know how he works, he knows
>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>> I work."
>>>>>>>> Then there was his rookie NFL campaign, when he saw limited action
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> the line but got a lot of guidance from starting guards Faneca and
>>>>>>>> Brandon Moore.
>>>>>>>> "I learned a lot playing behind Alan and Brandon," he said. "I was
>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>> to pick their brains and see how things were supposed to be done."
>>>>>>>> Slauson has a good idea how things need to be done off the field. He
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> named the team's sixth Hampton Award winner, which goes to the
>>>>>>>> rookie
>>>>>>>> "who acts most like a pro in the locker room" and is friendly,
>>>>>>>> courteous
>>>>>>>> and neat.
>>>>>>>> And on Wednesday he just made his first "solo" hospital visit to see
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> kids at the Goryeb Children's Hospital at Morristown Memorial near
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> team complex.
>>>>>>>> "I really enjoyed that a lot. I just love visiting the kids," he
>>>>>>>> said.
>>>>>>>> "When I was growing up, I'd kill to meet a football player —
>>>>>>>> college,
>>>>>>>> pro, it didn't matter. Big, mean, nasty guys. But then I found out
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> most offensive linemen are nice guys off the field."
>>>>>>>> So Slauson's got the split personality part down, because he seems
>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>> nasty and mean enough on the turf to make a big run at this opening
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> the starting lineup.
>>>>>>>> "I'm very confident. As long as I do what I can do, I know I have a
>>>>>>>> really good chance," he said. "The cards are going to fall where
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> will, and hopefully I'll be on top of the deck."
>>>>>>> I was happy when Jets drafted him for "depth" on the o-line because
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>> was reported to have been able to play at every spot in the line. He
>>>>>>> was also called a throw back to the Huskers of old. After watching
>>>>>>> him when he came in for Faneca in the Tampa game last season, I was
>>>>>>> all but sure that Faneca's days were numbered. Slauson moved the
>>>>>>> pile
>>>>>>> and the left side of the line had a new identity. He did not get
>>>>>>> knocked back on passing downs either. He also seems to have the best
>>>>>>> of both worlds as far as his feet and his power above the hips. He
>>>>>>> looks as nimble and fast as a tackle on his feet and as brutish as
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> need for inside pass blocking. Just a guess on my part, but from
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> point on, the writing was on the wall for Faneca. I think Rex really
>>>>>>> wants to move the pile more on that side as well as shore up the pass
>>>>>>> protection. I agree that they probably see Slauson as the new LG
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Vlad as the guy to take over for Woody at RT after he gets his feet
>>>>>>> wet.
>>>>>> You've never answered this question: if he was that impressive, why
>>>>>> didn't he get more playing time?- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>> There are a few reasons I would put forth. A combination of the
>>>>> following. First off, Faneca knew more of the offensive play book
>>>>> than Slauson. Yes, Slauson works on a lot of the same stuff, but not
>>>>> to the degree that Feneca did. Add too that, Slauson can have a good
>>>>> individial performance, but may be not an ideal at the time to pull
>>>>> Faneca when he can come back considering how the starting offensive
>>>>> line worked as a team. They might not have wanted to disrupt the
>>>>> ballance. Second off... I dont think it set in quite so fast in the
>>>>> minds of the coaches as to just how good Slauson looked as compaired
>>>>> to Faneca. Also... There had to be a feeling that they should have
>>>>> "Alan Faneca" multi pro bowler 32 million dolloar man sitting on the
>>>>> bench if he was able to play. You can also throw in a bit of player
>>>>> pressure from guys like Mangold and Brick wanting their friend back in
>>>>> there. It all contributed. When the dust of the season cleared, so
>>>>> did their minds.
>>>> Also, with the money they spent on Hunter, you've got to think that they
>>>> project him as the backup OT, which would put Vlad further down the
>>>> depth chart. That's kind of a precarious spot to put themselves.
>>>> Limited number of draft picks and they select a guy early who won't
>>>> really have a chance to start for at least a year, maybe longer if Woody
>>>> still plays at a high level.
>>>>
>>>> My thinking, and it's speculation just like yours, is that they're not
>>>> so sold on Slauson and that Vlad will end up winning the job.- Hide
>>>> quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> im wondering about hunter... i strongly doubt he can out play slauson
>>> now or a few years down the road. vlad also has the upside to keep
>>> hunter on the bench. if anyone is gonna be in a back-up roll after
>>> everything shakes out, it will be hunter. to me, he looks bush league.
>> You might be right, but if you are, the decision to keep him at that price
>> is curious. If my numbers are right, they would have saved more by
>> keeping Faneca and letting Hunter walk. Keeping Hunter tells me that
>> they're projecting Vlad as a guard and maybe, at best, 4th tackle.
>>
>> Best case scenario for the Jets -- they hit a home run drafting Slauson
>> and he starts at LG, Vlad has an immediate impact and backs up guard and
>> tackle and also comes in as a 2nd TE in tight sets.
>
> Bingo....what I think they think

I read today that Ducasse was working with the first team in OTAs and
Slauson with the 2nd. May not be Slauson's job to lose after all.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gulp... head-scratcher becoming a chronic problem?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/b38eb7de57ab296b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 5:44 am
From: "Jetsdad&son"


On May 20, 8:55 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:

> "It's too soon to say the Jets have a kicking crisis, but Rex Ryan admitted he's
> concerned. Former Cowboys PK Nick Folk, whom they're counting on to replace Jay Feely
> (Cards), was brutal. At one point, he missed three straight from about 40 yards.

What ever happened to Nugent. Lasst I remember he was sidelined w/ a
leg injury. Didn't he ever recover from it?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 2014 Superbowl in NY Metro area ???
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/c1272d3bd50de6fa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 17 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 8:06 am
From: Michael


Any opinions on the 2014 Superbowl being held at the new Meadowlands
stadium ???

IMHO, I think it is a fun idea to try a cold weather super bowl. For
once, running/defensive teams may have a bit of an edge over the arena
league style teams like the Colts.

The same amount of people will still be watching on TV no matter where
it is held, and all the seats will still be sold out.

The event is significant enough to give a financial benefit to the
locals but short enough so that it wont cause any major disruptions.

It will be fun for Jet and Giant fans to consider that their team will
be playing for a shot at a home Superbowl.

I cant think of one good reason not to hold the game at the new
stadium.

Comments ???


== 2 of 17 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 9:10 am
From: "Ray OHara"

"Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:de0748da-d102-4617-8740-82da471eb4c3@k31g2000vbu.googlegroups.com...
> Any opinions on the 2014 Superbowl being held at the new Meadowlands
> stadium ???
>
>


SB location was always based on factors other than game weather.
its the weather the week before the game for all the media events that
matters.


== 3 of 17 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 10:20 am
From: "papa.carl44"

"Ray OHara" <raymond-ohara@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:htgsrr$n7b$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:de0748da-d102-4617-8740-82da471eb4c3@k31g2000vbu.googlegroups.com...
>> Any opinions on the 2014 Superbowl being held at the new Meadowlands
>> stadium ???
>>
>>
>
>
> SB location was always based on factors other than game weather.
> its the weather the week before the game for all the media events that
> matters.


I think I understand not wanting "bad weather" in some cities....like
Detroit for example....but does it really matter that much in NYC?
Seriously, lots of stuff keeps on keeping on in the Greater NYC area. Plus,
think of all the packages that could put together plays, music venues, top
notch resteraunts etc. I think it would be a good thing. I also think it
is an opportunity (not that I completely agree) for the league to sell the
game to an expanded market that includes Europeans. It's an enormously
expensive event anyway, so why not add some pieces to it that sell to the
crowd who can afford it and also helps the entire region. The folks who can
get a ticket, but don't want to spend the $$$$$ on a NYC hotel can most
likely find something within travel distance to the game they can more
afford. I actually miss games that are played in tough weather.


== 4 of 17 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 10:50 am
From: Dano58


On May 25, 11:06 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Any opinions on the 2014 Superbowl being held at the new Meadowlands
> stadium ???
>
> IMHO, I think it is a fun idea to try a cold weather super bowl.  For
> once, running/defensive teams may have a bit of an edge over the arena
> league style teams like the Colts.
>
> The same amount of people will still be watching on TV no matter where
> it is held, and all the seats will still be sold out.
>
> The event is significant enough to give a financial benefit to the
> locals but short enough so that it wont cause any major disruptions.
>
> It will be fun for Jet and Giant fans to consider that their team will
> be playing for a shot at a home Superbowl.
>
> I cant think of one good reason not to hold the game at the new
> stadium.
>
> Comments ???

I think it would be awesome, and would hope for a cold windy day with
light snow!

Dan D
Central NJ USA


== 5 of 17 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 11:03 am
From: MZ


papa.carl44 wrote:
> "Ray OHara" <raymond-ohara@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:htgsrr$n7b$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> "Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:de0748da-d102-4617-8740-82da471eb4c3@k31g2000vbu.googlegroups.com...
>>> Any opinions on the 2014 Superbowl being held at the new Meadowlands
>>> stadium ???
>>>
>>>
>>
>> SB location was always based on factors other than game weather.
>> its the weather the week before the game for all the media events that
>> matters.
>
>
> I think I understand not wanting "bad weather" in some cities....like
> Detroit for example....but does it really matter that much in NYC?
> Seriously, lots of stuff keeps on keeping on in the Greater NYC area. Plus,
> think of all the packages that could put together plays, music venues, top
> notch resteraunts etc. I think it would be a good thing. I also think it
> is an opportunity (not that I completely agree) for the league to sell the
> game to an expanded market that includes Europeans. It's an enormously
> expensive event anyway, so why not add some pieces to it that sell to the
> crowd who can afford it and also helps the entire region. The folks who can
> get a ticket, but don't want to spend the $$$$$ on a NYC hotel can most
> likely find something within travel distance to the game they can more
> afford. I actually miss games that are played in tough weather.
>
>

I agree. I think NY could be one of the only bad weather cities that
could be a good site. The only other northern city that I think could
host it is Chicago, but the stadium might be too far south. Kraft's
been pushing it hard because I think he wants it to end up in New
England at some point, but Foxboro is too far away, especially
considering the traffic situation.


== 6 of 17 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 12:33 pm
From: Michael


On May 25, 2:03 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
> papa.carl44 wrote:
> > "Ray OHara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:htgsrr$n7b$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> >> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>news:de0748da-d102-4617-8740-82da471eb4c3@k31g2000vbu.googlegroups.com...
> >>> Any opinions on the 2014 Superbowl being held at the new Meadowlands
> >>> stadium ???
>
> >> SB location was always based on factors other than game weather.
> >> its the weather the week before the game for all the media events that
> >> matters.
>
> > I think I understand not wanting "bad weather" in some cities....like
> > Detroit for example....but does it really matter that much in NYC?
> > Seriously, lots of stuff keeps on keeping on in the Greater NYC area.  Plus,
> > think of all the packages that could put together plays, music venues, top
> > notch resteraunts etc.  I think it would be a good thing.  I also think it
> > is an opportunity (not that I completely agree) for the league to sell the
> > game to an expanded market that includes Europeans.  It's an enormously
> > expensive event anyway, so why not add some pieces to it that sell to the
> > crowd who can afford it and also helps the entire region.  The folks who can
> > get a ticket, but don't want to spend the $$$$$ on a NYC hotel can most
> > likely find something within travel distance to the game they can more
> > afford.  I actually miss games that are played in tough weather.
>
> I agree.  I think NY could be one of the only bad weather cities that
> could be a good site.  The only other northern city that I think could
> host it is Chicago, but the stadium might be too far south.  Kraft's
> been pushing it hard because I think he wants it to end up in New
> England at some point, but Foxboro is too far away, especially
> considering the traffic situation.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Too far away ??? You mean from Boston ??? How far is the drive
between Boston and the Razor ??? If you stay in NYC and take mass
transit to the New Meadowlands stadium, you are probably in for a good
hour of travel time from your hotel door to the stadium.


== 7 of 17 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 12:38 pm
From: Michael


On May 25, 1:20 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
wrote:
> "Ray OHara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:htgsrr$n7b$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
> > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >news:de0748da-d102-4617-8740-82da471eb4c3@k31g2000vbu.googlegroups.com...
> >> Any opinions on the 2014 Superbowl being held at the new Meadowlands
> >> stadium ???
>
> > SB location was always based on factors other than game weather.
> > its the weather the week before the game for all the media events that
> > matters.
>
> I think I understand not wanting "bad weather" in some cities....like
> Detroit for example....but does it really matter that much in NYC?
> Seriously, lots of stuff keeps on keeping on in the Greater NYC area.  Plus,
> think of all the packages that could put together plays, music venues, top
> notch resteraunts etc.  I think it would be a good thing.  I also think it
> is an opportunity (not that I completely agree) for the league to sell the
> game to an expanded market that includes Europeans.  It's an enormously
> expensive event anyway, so why not add some pieces to it that sell to the
> crowd who can afford it and also helps the entire region.  The folks who can
> get a ticket, but don't want to spend the $$$$$ on a NYC hotel can most
> likely find something within travel distance to the game they can more
> afford.  I actually miss games that are played in tough weather.

In order to shut down the city due to bad weather, you would need a
24" snow storm that takes place the day of the game. You have a much
better chance of getting washed out in Miami or Tampa due to a
torrential downpour than you do getting snowed out in NYC/NJ. It may
very well snow... even heavy, but not much chance at all of a storm
that blows the whole works. Even if a few people cant get to the
tame, the TV ratings are the same, the tickets are still sold and so
is all the advertising space.


== 8 of 17 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 12:41 pm
From: MZ


Michael wrote:
> On May 25, 2:03 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>> papa.carl44 wrote:
>>> "Ray OHara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:htgsrr$n7b$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:de0748da-d102-4617-8740-82da471eb4c3@k31g2000vbu.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> Any opinions on the 2014 Superbowl being held at the new Meadowlands
>>>>> stadium ???
>>>> SB location was always based on factors other than game weather.
>>>> its the weather the week before the game for all the media events that
>>>> matters.
>>> I think I understand not wanting "bad weather" in some cities....like
>>> Detroit for example....but does it really matter that much in NYC?
>>> Seriously, lots of stuff keeps on keeping on in the Greater NYC area. Plus,
>>> think of all the packages that could put together plays, music venues, top
>>> notch resteraunts etc. I think it would be a good thing. I also think it
>>> is an opportunity (not that I completely agree) for the league to sell the
>>> game to an expanded market that includes Europeans. It's an enormously
>>> expensive event anyway, so why not add some pieces to it that sell to the
>>> crowd who can afford it and also helps the entire region. The folks who can
>>> get a ticket, but don't want to spend the $$$$$ on a NYC hotel can most
>>> likely find something within travel distance to the game they can more
>>> afford. I actually miss games that are played in tough weather.
>> I agree. I think NY could be one of the only bad weather cities that
>> could be a good site. The only other northern city that I think could
>> host it is Chicago, but the stadium might be too far south. Kraft's
>> been pushing it hard because I think he wants it to end up in New
>> England at some point, but Foxboro is too far away, especially
>> considering the traffic situation.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Too far away ??? You mean from Boston ??? How far is the drive
> between Boston and the Razor ??? If you stay in NYC and take mass
> transit to the New Meadowlands stadium, you are probably in for a good
> hour of travel time from your hotel door to the stadium.

Right, but the mass transit can accommodate more people in NY than what
the T can do. On regular gameday in NE, you're in the parking lot alone
for a lot more than an hour. IIRC, the ramp off the highway to rt 1 in
foxboro is single lane too. I haven't been there in a couple years, and
supposedly they fixed (or are planning to fix) some of the pedestrian
problems, which might clear things up a lot. But I'll believe it when I
see it.

Washington might also be a good spot to have it. Although it's not
exactly "northern"..


== 9 of 17 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 12:45 pm
From: Ritchie


Personally I think its a stupid idea. I don't want a SB to be decided
on a stupid fluke play when a receiver slips on the snow/ice and
coughs up the ball or so on. The SB should not give any team an
advantage and should be in a neutral situation so that both teams are
on equal ground.


== 10 of 17 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 12:54 pm
From: Michael


On May 25, 3:45 pm, Ritchie <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Personally I think its a stupid idea. I don't want a SB to be decided
> on a stupid fluke play when a receiver slips on the snow/ice and
> coughs up the ball or so on. The SB should not give any team an
> advantage and should be in a neutral situation so that both teams are
> on equal ground.

A lot of people are making this same point. It make sense...
Still... I'm leaning more to thinking that the warm weather and dome
teams have had the advantage for too long. One of the things that the
cold weather teams work at doing is executing in the snow, the cold
and the wind. I think this is part of the reason why the passing
teams have the edge in the superbowl. If the Jets had played the
Colts in 15 deg weather with snow in the AFC Champ game and the
Packers played the Cardinals at the tundra in the snow, may be the
superbowl would have been Jets vs. the Pack. Footbal is played in all
kinds of weather all year, why change it for the superbowl ??? So
Manning does not get his little white jersey all dirty ???


== 11 of 17 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 1:03 pm
From: Michael


On May 25, 3:41 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
> Michael wrote:
> > On May 25, 2:03 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
> >> papa.carl44 wrote:
> >>> "Ray OHara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:htgsrr$n7b$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> >>>> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>>>news:de0748da-d102-4617-8740-82da471eb4c3@k31g2000vbu.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>> Any opinions on the 2014 Superbowl being held at the new Meadowlands
> >>>>> stadium ???
> >>>> SB location was always based on factors other than game weather.
> >>>> its the weather the week before the game for all the media events that
> >>>> matters.
> >>> I think I understand not wanting "bad weather" in some cities....like
> >>> Detroit for example....but does it really matter that much in NYC?
> >>> Seriously, lots of stuff keeps on keeping on in the Greater NYC area.  Plus,
> >>> think of all the packages that could put together plays, music venues, top
> >>> notch resteraunts etc.  I think it would be a good thing.  I also think it
> >>> is an opportunity (not that I completely agree) for the league to sell the
> >>> game to an expanded market that includes Europeans.  It's an enormously
> >>> expensive event anyway, so why not add some pieces to it that sell to the
> >>> crowd who can afford it and also helps the entire region.  The folks who can
> >>> get a ticket, but don't want to spend the $$$$$ on a NYC hotel can most
> >>> likely find something within travel distance to the game they can more
> >>> afford.  I actually miss games that are played in tough weather.
> >> I agree.  I think NY could be one of the only bad weather cities that
> >> could be a good site.  The only other northern city that I think could
> >> host it is Chicago, but the stadium might be too far south.  Kraft's
> >> been pushing it hard because I think he wants it to end up in New
> >> England at some point, but Foxboro is too far away, especially
> >> considering the traffic situation.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Too far away ??? You mean from Boston ???  How far is the drive
> > between Boston and the Razor ???  If you stay in NYC and take mass
> > transit to the New Meadowlands stadium, you are probably in for a good
> > hour of travel time from your hotel door to the stadium.
>
> Right, but the mass transit can accommodate more people in NY than what
> the T can do.  On regular gameday in NE, you're in the parking lot alone
> for a lot more than an hour.  IIRC, the ramp off the highway to rt 1 in
> foxboro is single lane too.  I haven't been there in a couple years, and
> supposedly they fixed (or are planning to fix) some of the pedestrian
> problems, which might clear things up a lot.  But I'll believe it when I
> see it.
>
> Washington might also be a good spot to have it.  Although it's not
> exactly "northern"..- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

An hour just in the parking lot ??? That is quite a bit. This past
season, even with all the construction at the Meadowlands and the old
stadium still taking up space, you can get from the highway into the
parking lot and out of your car in about ten minutes. I got off of Rt
17 and on to Patterson Plank road and was parked usually in ten
minutes after getting off the highway. It takes longer to get out,
though. May be about 20 minutes to get back to the highway.

Once the old stadium is out of there, it will be much quicker still.
I read that they did a lot of work on traffic studies to make getting
in and out of the new stadium as painless as possible. They also now
have assigned parking lots depending on your seats/psl, so there wont
be any log jamms.


== 12 of 17 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 1:38 pm
From: MZ


Michael wrote:
> On May 25, 3:41 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>> Michael wrote:
>>> On May 25, 2:03 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>>>> papa.carl44 wrote:
>>>>> "Ray OHara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:htgsrr$n7b$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:de0748da-d102-4617-8740-82da471eb4c3@k31g2000vbu.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>> Any opinions on the 2014 Superbowl being held at the new Meadowlands
>>>>>>> stadium ???
>>>>>> SB location was always based on factors other than game weather.
>>>>>> its the weather the week before the game for all the media events that
>>>>>> matters.
>>>>> I think I understand not wanting "bad weather" in some cities....like
>>>>> Detroit for example....but does it really matter that much in NYC?
>>>>> Seriously, lots of stuff keeps on keeping on in the Greater NYC area. Plus,
>>>>> think of all the packages that could put together plays, music venues, top
>>>>> notch resteraunts etc. I think it would be a good thing. I also think it
>>>>> is an opportunity (not that I completely agree) for the league to sell the
>>>>> game to an expanded market that includes Europeans. It's an enormously
>>>>> expensive event anyway, so why not add some pieces to it that sell to the
>>>>> crowd who can afford it and also helps the entire region. The folks who can
>>>>> get a ticket, but don't want to spend the $$$$$ on a NYC hotel can most
>>>>> likely find something within travel distance to the game they can more
>>>>> afford. I actually miss games that are played in tough weather.
>>>> I agree. I think NY could be one of the only bad weather cities that
>>>> could be a good site. The only other northern city that I think could
>>>> host it is Chicago, but the stadium might be too far south. Kraft's
>>>> been pushing it hard because I think he wants it to end up in New
>>>> England at some point, but Foxboro is too far away, especially
>>>> considering the traffic situation.- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> Too far away ??? You mean from Boston ??? How far is the drive
>>> between Boston and the Razor ??? If you stay in NYC and take mass
>>> transit to the New Meadowlands stadium, you are probably in for a good
>>> hour of travel time from your hotel door to the stadium.
>> Right, but the mass transit can accommodate more people in NY than what
>> the T can do. On regular gameday in NE, you're in the parking lot alone
>> for a lot more than an hour. IIRC, the ramp off the highway to rt 1 in
>> foxboro is single lane too. I haven't been there in a couple years, and
>> supposedly they fixed (or are planning to fix) some of the pedestrian
>> problems, which might clear things up a lot. But I'll believe it when I
>> see it.
>>
>> Washington might also be a good spot to have it. Although it's not
>> exactly "northern"..- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> An hour just in the parking lot ??? That is quite a bit.

Depends on where you park. If you park in the private lots 1-2 mi away
from gillette stadium you can obviously get out a lot quicker. Although
last time I did that, some asshole backed into my car while I was
waiting. I went to the Pats-Titans playoff game back during the '03
season, and because it was so cold (about 0F), I parked in the stadium
lot. I don't remember exactly how long the wait was, but I think it was
around 2 hours before I actually got on to rt 1 and another hour before
I got onto the highway.


== 13 of 17 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 3:27 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:6f4a074f-7171-4a5d-a45a-116b7e866cda@q8g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
On May 25, 2:03 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
> papa.carl44 wrote:
> > "Ray OHara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:htgsrr$n7b$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> >> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>news:de0748da-d102-4617-8740-82da471eb4c3@k31g2000vbu.googlegroups.com...
> >>> Any opinions on the 2014 Superbowl being held at the new Meadowlands
> >>> stadium ???
>
> >> SB location was always based on factors other than game weather.
> >> its the weather the week before the game for all the media events that
> >> matters.
>
> > I think I understand not wanting "bad weather" in some cities....like
> > Detroit for example....but does it really matter that much in NYC?
> > Seriously, lots of stuff keeps on keeping on in the Greater NYC area.
> > Plus,
> > think of all the packages that could put together plays, music venues,
> > top
> > notch resteraunts etc. I think it would be a good thing. I also think it
> > is an opportunity (not that I completely agree) for the league to sell
> > the
> > game to an expanded market that includes Europeans. It's an enormously
> > expensive event anyway, so why not add some pieces to it that sell to
> > the
> > crowd who can afford it and also helps the entire region. The folks who
> > can
> > get a ticket, but don't want to spend the $$$$$ on a NYC hotel can most
> > likely find something within travel distance to the game they can more
> > afford. I actually miss games that are played in tough weather.
>
> I agree. I think NY could be one of the only bad weather cities that
> could be a good site. The only other northern city that I think could
> host it is Chicago, but the stadium might be too far south. Kraft's
> been pushing it hard because I think he wants it to end up in New
> England at some point, but Foxboro is too far away, especially
> considering the traffic situation.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Too far away ??? You mean from Boston ??? How far is the drive
between Boston and the Razor ??? If you stay in NYC and take mass
transit to the New Meadowlands stadium, you are probably in for a good
hour of travel time from your hotel door to the stadium.

I'm betting they will have lots of special busses and trains in operation
for that event. An hour in something comfortable that will no doubt have
people selling you something won't be as bad as several hours stuck in
traffic.


== 14 of 17 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 5:38 pm
From: "JK Coney"

"Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:de0748da-d102-4617-8740-82da471eb4c3@k31g2000vbu.googlegroups.com...
> Any opinions on the 2014 Superbowl being held at the new Meadowlands
> stadium ???
>


Mayans say Dec 21, 2012 is the end... just our luck!

--
JK Sinrod
www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com


== 15 of 17 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 6:02 pm
From: buRford


On Tue, 25 May 2010 08:06:38 -0700 (PDT), Michael <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote:

>Any opinions on the 2014 Superbowl being held at the new Meadowlands
>stadium ???
>
>IMHO, I think it is a fun idea to try a cold weather super bowl. For
>once, running/defensive teams may have a bit of an edge over the arena
>league style teams like the Colts.
>
>The same amount of people will still be watching on TV no matter where
>it is held, and all the seats will still be sold out.
>
>The event is significant enough to give a financial benefit to the
>locals but short enough so that it wont cause any major disruptions.
>
>It will be fun for Jet and Giant fans to consider that their team will
>be playing for a shot at a home Superbowl.
>
>I cant think of one good reason not to hold the game at the new
>stadium.
>
>Comments ???

I think this is great... even if it wasn't held in the NY area.
It's about freakin' time that the Supe gets played, in football weather.
Both championship games are played outdoors (how many domes are there?).
Why not the Supe??

On another note... Woody seems to be really gaining some influence in the NFL.
The Mara's have always had influence, but the difference now is that Woody's been more
active. I go hot and cold on him, but kudos to him for helping make this happen.


== 16 of 17 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 8:18 pm
From: Michael


On May 25, 9:02 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 25 May 2010 08:06:38 -0700 (PDT), Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >Any opinions on the 2014 Superbowl being held at the new Meadowlands
> >stadium ???
>
> >IMHO, I think it is a fun idea to try a cold weather super bowl.  For
> >once, running/defensive teams may have a bit of an edge over the arena
> >league style teams like the Colts.
>
> >The same amount of people will still be watching on TV no matter where
> >it is held, and all the seats will still be sold out.
>
> >The event is significant enough to give a financial benefit to the
> >locals but short enough so that it wont cause any major disruptions.
>
> >It will be fun for Jet and Giant fans to consider that their team will
> >be playing for a shot at a home Superbowl.
>
> >I cant think of one good reason not to hold the game at the new
> >stadium.
>
> >Comments ???
>
> I think this is great... even if it wasn't held in the NY area.
> It's about freakin' time that the Supe gets played, in football weather.
> Both championship games are played outdoors (how many domes are there?).
> Why not the Supe??
>
> On another note... Woody seems to be really gaining some influence in the NFL.
> The Mara's have always had influence, but the difference now is that Woody's been more
> active.  I go hot and cold on him, but kudos to him for helping make this happen.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I like Wood a lot as an owner. Although he has not been perfect, he
is dynamic, takes pride in the Jets, spends on the team and has shown
signs that he learns and gets smarter about running the Jets from his
past experience. I credit Woody for bringing in Rex and being the
main guy behind the Sanchez deal. I will also always remember with
great fondness that Woody had the smarts and balls not to go gaga over
Spittle Face.


== 17 of 17 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 8:18 pm
From: graybeard


On Tue, 25 May 2010 16:38:43 -0400 MZ <mark@nospam.void> wrote:

>Depends on where you park. If you park in the private lots 1-2 mi away
>from gillette stadium you can obviously get out a lot quicker. Although
>last time I did that, some asshole backed into my car while I was
>waiting. I went to the Pats-Titans playoff game back during the '03
>season, and because it was so cold (about 0F), I parked in the stadium
>lot. I don't remember exactly how long the wait was, but I think it was
>around 2 hours before I actually got on to rt 1 and another hour before
>I got onto the highway.

I don't go anywhere near Rte 1 when a Pats or Revolution game is being
played at Gillette. A couple of years ago I had the misfortune to be
taking Rte 1 South home, and I hit the stadium area just as a multi-band
rock concert was letting out. It took me 1 1/2 hours just to get from
one end of the stadium to the other.
--
graybeard

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Brodney Pool: '05 Second Round Pick
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/b01e52a7adbef479?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 12:25 pm
From: JetsLife


On May 22, 7:59 pm, "Ray OHara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "JetsLife" <JetsL...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:74eb1c8b-2c35-4f9b-98a9-61fa78004526@f14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Didn't know that.  Apparently he has some talent.  Knock on wood he
> > doesn't sustain another concussion.
>
> once you get the first the next is easier to suffer.
> I wonder how Al Toon is doing these days.

Indeed. Think I read he's had more than one. Knock on wood, tho that
doesn't sound too good here.

Toon is doing great. I wonder how Chrebet is doing.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Stupid question about the new stadium's name
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/77fe32f3e0cf1ba7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 12:56 pm
From: Michael


With all of Woody's ties to Johnson & Johnson, why would they not be
one of the companies interested in buying the name rights to the new
stadium ???


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 5:37 pm
From: "JK Coney"

"Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:6a4365b8-176c-4199-8c3e-28396c1d5cad@o12g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> With all of Woody's ties to Johnson & Johnson, why would they not be
> one of the companies interested in buying the name rights to the new
> stadium ???


He OWNS the company.... he owns the team. Why take more money out of his
pocket when he can get someone else to pay a ridiculous sum for it?

--
JK Sinrod
www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 6:05 pm
From: buRford


On Tue, 25 May 2010 12:56:08 -0700 (PDT), Michael <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote:

>With all of Woody's ties to Johnson & Johnson, why would they not be
>one of the companies interested in buying the name rights to the new
>stadium ???

I suspect that the Giants might not be so keen on THAT idea.
That would make it more like *Jets Stadium,* even though Woody isn't involved in running J
& J, his name still be Johnson ;)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 2014 Superbowl = First EVER in NY/NJ!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/8f9ea1d341d4bee1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 1:21 pm
From: "yoyodog"


Votes just completed at NFL owners meetings...

On the fourth ballot. By simple majority, 17 owners needed to vote for
NY/NJ did.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 1:31 pm
From: Michael


On May 25, 4:21 pm, "yoyodog" <NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Votes just completed at NFL owners meetings...
>
> On the fourth ballot.  By simple majority, 17 owners needed to vote for
> NY/NJ did.

there was just too much political and financial juice behind this for
it not to happen. i knew it was a done deal months ago


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 6:16 pm
From: Glenn Greenstein


On May 25, 4:31 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On May 25, 4:21 pm, "yoyodog" <NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Votes just completed at NFL owners meetings...
>
> > On the fourth ballot.  By simple majority, 17 owners needed to vote for
> > NY/NJ did.
>
> there was just too much political and financial juice behind this for
> it not to happen.  i knew it was a done deal months ago

Lets hope it;s a Jets home game


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Today's topics:

* Poor Brent Kay was delusional and duped by Floyd - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7c46a5f76b32b84c?hl=en
* Has Anyone Noticed... - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/833239d68598c3f8?hl=en
* Charges dropped in murder of bike courier by Attn Gen - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/b49f8c023505b638?hl=en
* EPO Microdosing - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/769c62da65b66fa7?hl=en
* Ping Bob Martin - 1 messages, 1 author
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* Floyd Landis Could Be Cycling's Jose Canseco - 1 messages, 1 author
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* LANCE even late in paying his bribes ... er, 'donations' - 6 messages, 6
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e7dec63feaa7e69b?hl=en
* Floyd is a nice guy - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/57dd4150d72b160d?hl=en
* Still in Lance's Innocence Camp ? - 5 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/791f129b5933acea?hl=en
* rbr knows that the other shoe will drop soon ... Flandis has brought down
LANCE Inc. - 4 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/134f2f799885d4dc?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Poor Brent Kay was delusional and duped by Floyd
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7c46a5f76b32b84c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 8:50 am
From: RicodJour


On May 25, 11:21 am, raamman <raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 25, 10:15 am, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 25, 5:43 am, "A. Dumas Fred" <alexan...@dumas.fr> wrote:
>
> > > Scott wrote:
> > > > On May 24, 5:04 am, "A. Dumas Fred" wrote:
> > > >> Scott wrote:
> > > >>> battling cancer
> > > >> Undergoing treatment for cancer.
>
> > > > Whatever.
>
> > > One is delusional voodoo for starry-eyed morons, the other is factual.
>
> > The words in which an endeavour is couched indicates the mindset.
> > Battling cancer describes involvement and a pro-active approach.
> > Undergoing treatment describes a passive approach.
>
> > In medicine, as in much of life, these are not little things.
>
>
> a recient report indicated a patients will to live had negligible
> effect on cancer treatment.

Outlook may not necessarily affect the outcome (though the placebo
effect is well-documented and not in question) it will affect the
person's frame of mind and perceived quality of life.

R

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Has Anyone Noticed...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/833239d68598c3f8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 9:00 am
From: Fred Flintstein


On 5/25/2010 10:18 AM, raamman wrote:
> On May 25, 10:14 am, Fred Flintstein
> <bob.schwa...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote:
>> CFE's team (BMC) has lost 4 riders. No other team
>> has lost that many.
>>
>> Vino's (Astana) team has lost 3 riders.
>> Duran's team (Caisse d'Epargne) has lost a single rider.
>> Sastre's team (Cervélo) is intact.
>> Basso and Nibali's team (Liquigas) is intact.
>>
>> CFE and Vino will likely be alone when things hit the
>> fan. Other riders will likely not be.
>>
>> Fred Flintstein
>
> good thing there's no TTT in the final week

Teammates are nice to have in the last week but are not
a requirement. Probably the best recent example is
Savoldelli's win with a very weak team in 2005. But
Savoldelli had a lead and could ride defensively. He
also had the best support from another team that could
be negotiated under the circumstances.

CFE needs to attack, he needs to time it well, and he
will have very little say in how the race progresses up
to that point. If his director decides to buy some
assistance that will also need to be timed well.

Winning the race is not going to be easy for him. Basso
has a stronger hand to play, as does Arroyo Duran.

Fred Flintstein


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 11:41 am
From: "Mark J."


Fred Flintstein wrote:
> CFE's team (BMC) has lost 4 riders. No other team
> has lost that many.
>
> Vino's (Astana) team has lost 3 riders.

Four, actually: Tiralongo on stage 6, then three more on stage 11,
per Bob Martin's reports. (Thanks, Bob!)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rvmartin2/Giro-d%27Italia_10_16.html

> Duran's team (Caisse d'Epargne) has lost a single rider.
> Sastre's team (Cervélo) is intact.
> Basso and Nibali's team (Liquigas) is intact.
>
> CFE and Vino will likely be alone when things hit the
> fan. Other riders will likely not be.

On the Grappa stage Liquigas played things very well, with Nibali away,
Evans had to chase while Basso sat in and got some rest for the next
day's Zoncalan stage.

But it's also true that on the Zoncalan stage, the Liquigas train looked
to help Evans just as much as Basso - shed all but the big boys, then
leave it to Evans and Basso to fight it out.

Mark J.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Charges dropped in murder of bike courier by Attn Gen
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/b49f8c023505b638?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 9:06 am
From: raamman


Justice for former Justice minister or for victim of hit and run ?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: EPO Microdosing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/769c62da65b66fa7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 9:51 am
From: "Fred on a stick"


Brad Anders wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/sports/cycling/26micro.html

From that article:
"An earlier version of this article confused hematocrit with hemoglobin in
several instances."


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 11:29 am
From: raamman


On May 25, 11:49 am, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/sports/cycling/26micro.html

little theories to try to fit the facts- how many little theories
existed regarding Floyds positive somehow being an affected negative ?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ping Bob Martin
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/336ed74f93dda7f3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 9:59 am
From: Bob Martin


in 315224 20100525 155613 "Fred on a stick" <anonymous.coward@address.invalid> wrote:
>Bob Martin wrote:
>> in 315039 20100524 124447 "A. Dumas Fred" <alexandre@dumas.fr> wrote:
>>> Hi Bob, it seems as though your stage reports haven't appeared on my
>>> server after the one from stage 12 of the Giro. Have you changed
>>> anything since? I do see replies to later ones, so it may be
>>> (probably is) my server's fault.
>>
>> They are all getting to my server OK but all the reports are
>> available at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rvmartin2
>
>They don't seem to be showing up on Google Groups.

Perhaps Google is censoring me ;-)

Sorry, can't help you.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Floyd Landis Could Be Cycling's Jose Canseco
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/43a256e975de7482?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 10:02 am
From: "F. Kurgan Gringioni"

"Anton Berlin" <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:81b4e1bc-f070-451f-8723-

> Keith - I and others on this board raced against those guys and they
> were ALL heavy doping all along.

Dumbass -

That's what Keith and Laff don't get. They've got this hardon for LANCE and
LANCE only.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: LANCE even late in paying his bribes ... er, 'donations'
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e7dec63feaa7e69b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 10:05 am
From: Anton Berlin


On May 25, 10:48 am, bar <barbari...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "[McQuaid] refused comparisons with a football team perhaps making a
> donation to a match referee but embarrassingly admitted that despite
> promising the $100,000 in April of 2002, Armstrong only paid up in
> 2005 after the UCI sent him a reminder of payment."
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-acknowledges-accepting-armstr...

GOD DAMN EMBARRASSING.

I'm ashamed that these morans are in charge of this sport.

http://webpages.charter.net/solon7766/Political/moranstcharlesmo.jpg

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 10:32 am
From: Keith


On Tue, 25 May 2010 08:48:49 -0700 (PDT), bar <barbaricia@gmail.com>
wrote:

>"[McQuaid] refused comparisons with a football team perhaps making a
>donation to a match referee but embarrassingly admitted that despite
>promising the $100,000 in April of 2002, Armstrong only paid up in
>2005 after the UCI sent him a reminder of payment."
>
>http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-acknowledges-accepting-armstrong-donation-a-mistake

2002, eh ? Interesting because that ties in with Floyd's
statement...sounds to me like the deal was "I'll give you money if you
leave me alone until I retire".


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 10:47 am
From: RicodJour


On May 25, 1:32 pm, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 25 May 2010 08:48:49 -0700 (PDT), bar <barbari...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >"[McQuaid] refused comparisons with a football team perhaps making a
> >donation to a match referee but embarrassingly admitted that despite
> >promising the $100,000 in April of 2002, Armstrong only paid up in
> >2005 after the UCI sent him a reminder of payment."
>
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-acknowledges-accepting-armstr...
>
> 2002, eh ? Interesting because that ties in with Floyd's
> statement...sounds to me like the deal was "I'll give you money if you
> leave me alone until I retire".

You're tone deaf.

R


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 11:26 am
From: raamman


On May 25, 1:05 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 25, 10:48 am, bar <barbari...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "[McQuaid] refused comparisons with a football team perhaps making a
> > donation to a match referee but embarrassingly admitted that despite
> > promising the $100,000 in April of 2002, Armstrong only paid up in
> > 2005 after the UCI sent him a reminder of payment."
>
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-acknowledges-accepting-armstr...
>
> GOD DAMN EMBARRASSING.
>
> I'm ashamed that these morans are in charge of this sport.
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/solon7766/Political/moranstcharlesmo.jpg

little hint, spell check before calling someone a "moran" in a public
forum


== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 11:39 am
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd


On May 25, 11:26 am, raamman <raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 25, 1:05 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 25, 10:48 am, bar <barbari...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > "[McQuaid] refused comparisons with a football team perhaps making a
> > > donation to a match referee but embarrassingly admitted that despite
> > > promising the $100,000 in April of 2002, Armstrong only paid up in
> > > 2005 after the UCI sent him a reminder of payment."
>
> > >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-acknowledges-accepting-armstr...
>
> > GOD DAMN EMBARRASSING.
>
> > I'm ashamed that these morans are in charge of this sport.
>
> >http://webpages.charter.net/solon7766/Political/moranstcharlesmo.jpg
>
> little hint, spell check before calling someone a "moran" in a public
> forum

Dumbass,

Talk about embarrassing.

Google "morans" or just look at the picture Anton
linked for your convenience before you get out the red pen.

Fredmaster Ben


== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 11:41 am
From: TheCoz


On May 25, 12:32 pm, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 25 May 2010 08:48:49 -0700 (PDT), bar <barbari...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >"[McQuaid] refused comparisons with a football team perhaps making a
> >donation to a match referee but embarrassingly admitted that despite
> >promising the $100,000 in April of 2002, Armstrong only paid up in
> >2005 after the UCI sent him a reminder of payment."
>
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-acknowledges-accepting-armstr...
>
> 2002, eh ? Interesting because that ties in with Floyd's
> statement...sounds to me like the deal was "I'll give you money if you
> leave me alone until I retire".

I agree. Clever CYA excuse for the moment.
Coz

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Floyd is a nice guy
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/57dd4150d72b160d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 10:06 am
From: "F. Kurgan Gringioni"

"A. Dumas Fred" <alexandre@dumas.fr> wrote in message
news:543b5$4bfb9cb8$53578816$25433@cache2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. wrote:
>> Floyd is not credible.
>
> You keep saying that. Do you mean: in a court of law? I don't think that's
> relevant (yet) because, at least as far we know from the released or
> leaked info, there is no evidence. Or do you mean that you personally
> don't find Landis credible? To me it sounds probably all or mostly true.

Dumbass -

Sure.

But he spent the last 4 years on a crusade trying to prove that he didn't
dope. Floyd Fairness Fund. "Positively False". That's not the kind of guy
who's gonna change anything. Even if you or I believe him personally, the
status quo won't change based upon what a guy like that says. He's a fucking
idiot.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 10:34 am
From: Keith


On Tue, 25 May 2010 11:47:36 +0200, "A. Dumas Fred"
<alexandre@dumas.fr> wrote:

>Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. wrote:
>> Floyd is not credible.
>
>You keep saying that. Do you mean: in a court of law? I don't think
>that's relevant (yet) because, at least as far we know from the released
>or leaked info, there is no evidence. Or do you mean that you personally
>don't find Landis credible? To me it sounds probably all or mostly true.

Except that McQuaid has now admitted the "hush" money was in fact
promised in 2002, like Floyd said, and paid in 2005 ->
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-acknowledges-accepting-armstrong-donation-a-mistake

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Still in Lance's Innocence Camp ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/791f129b5933acea?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 10:14 am
From: Anton Berlin


The oceans of so called 'circumstantial evidence', ex-teammates and
contemporaries caught red handed, money paid to the governing body
(why the only cyclist ever to do this?) Floyd's confession, Strock
testimony and evidence, Carmichael and USCF settlement, the steroid
positive, the positive EPO findings on A samples, microdosing
techniques and somehow you still believe Lance Armstrong is clean?

Stand up be counted. Post your denials and delusions here.


== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 11:01 am
From: curtis@the-md-russells.org


On Tue, 25 May 2010 10:14:23 -0700 (PDT), Anton Berlin
<truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote:

>The oceans of so called 'circumstantial evidence', ex-teammates and
>contemporaries caught red handed, money paid to the governing body
>(why the only cyclist ever to do this?) Floyd's confession, Strock
>testimony and evidence, Carmichael and USCF settlement, the steroid
>positive, the positive EPO findings on A samples, microdosing
>techniques and somehow you still believe Lance Armstrong is clean?
>
>Stand up be counted. Post your denials and delusions here.

Actually, I'm not in that camp or any other. However, you don't have
to be in the 'LA is clean' camp to poke holes in the delusions of 'the
U.S. government will finally mount a massive investigation to prove
what we have been saying all along' camp.

And practically every GC candidate for any tour has either been
brought down or is facing equal amounts of circumstance and
speculation. Such is life in the Pro Tour.

What you and BL don't seem to realize is that we don't have delusions,
but we also don't particularly care or don't think it will lead to,
what is it you are looking for again, justice? The problem with
monomaniacally driven witch hunts is that the monomaniacs, if
successful, walk away thinking they have accomplished something and
all they have done is brought down the target of their mania. Nothing
more. The problem remains, to the extent it is a problem.

So be very clear here. Nothing you are speaking to or that BL is
speaking to works to fix any problems in the Pro Tour, perceived or
real. They serve only to bring down LA, if successful, and damage the
sport in the publicity arena. You aren't about the sport here; you're
on about LA.

You're like the hippies back in the day that went on and on about the
evil of money and how everyone was fixated on money, not realizing how
obvious they made their own fixations.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...


== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 11:04 am
From: Frederick the Great


In article
<9e4e50f7-0080-411c-94ef-75807b9cf372@y21g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
Anton Berlin <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote:

> The oceans of so called 'circumstantial evidence', ex-teammates and
> contemporaries caught red handed, money paid to the governing body
> (why the only cyclist ever to do this?) Floyd's confession, Strock
> testimony and evidence, Carmichael and USCF settlement, the steroid
> positive, the positive EPO findings on A samples, microdosing
> techniques and somehow you still believe Lance Armstrong is clean?
>
> Stand up be counted. Post your denials and delusions here.

How about you naming names?
When did you stop believing LANCE was clean?

--
Old Fritz


== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 11:23 am
From: dave a


On 5/25/2010 11:01 AM, curtis@the-md-russells.org wrote:
> On Tue, 25 May 2010 10:14:23 -0700 (PDT), Anton Berlin
> <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> The oceans of so called 'circumstantial evidence', ex-teammates and
>> contemporaries caught red handed, money paid to the governing body
>> (why the only cyclist ever to do this?) Floyd's confession, Strock
>> testimony and evidence, Carmichael and USCF settlement, the steroid
>> positive, the positive EPO findings on A samples, microdosing
>> techniques and somehow you still believe Lance Armstrong is clean?
>>
>> Stand up be counted. Post your denials and delusions here.
>
> Actually, I'm not in that camp or any other. However, you don't have
> to be in the 'LA is clean' camp to poke holes in the delusions of 'the
> U.S. government will finally mount a massive investigation to prove
> what we have been saying all along' camp.
>
> And practically every GC candidate for any tour has either been
> brought down or is facing equal amounts of circumstance and
> speculation. Such is life in the Pro Tour.
>
> What you and BL don't seem to realize is that we don't have delusions,
> but we also don't particularly care or don't think it will lead to,
> what is it you are looking for again, justice? The problem with
> monomaniacally driven witch hunts is that the monomaniacs, if
> successful, walk away thinking they have accomplished something and
> all they have done is brought down the target of their mania. Nothing
> more. The problem remains, to the extent it is a problem.
>
> So be very clear here. Nothing you are speaking to or that BL is
> speaking to works to fix any problems in the Pro Tour, perceived or
> real. They serve only to bring down LA, if successful, and damage the
> sport in the publicity arena. You aren't about the sport here; you're
> on about LA.
>
> You're like the hippies back in the day that went on and on about the
> evil of money and how everyone was fixated on money, not realizing how
> obvious they made their own fixations.
>
> Curtis L. Russell
> Odenton, MD (USA)
> Just someone on two wheels...

Dumbass,

Please don't lump all the hippies in with keith and bl. The hippies
weren't fixated on the evils of money per se, it was more about the
greed and avarice. Many hippies went on to make a fair amount of money. :-)

- dave a

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 11:34 am
From: Brad Anders


IMO, it's impossible to name any current pro male cyclist that you're
certain is not doping or has never doped in the past. You can't depend
on "clean" test results, nor does anyone's "word" mean anything. Given
this situation (which I don't see ever changing), the only way I've
found that I can remain interested in bike racing is to assume that
everyone who is racing is doing what's required to level the playing
field, and that what I'm watching is a fair game. Those that make
mistakes, or go too far in trying to gain an advantage, risk detection
and draconian sanctions. Maybe Lance is approaching that point, maybe
not.

Brad Anders

==============================================================================
TOPIC: rbr knows that the other shoe will drop soon ... Flandis has brought
down LANCE Inc.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/134f2f799885d4dc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 10:15 am
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/25/2010 11:35 AM, F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> "raamman" <raamman@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4fec21bc-75ac-4524-a8fe-...
>
> :: after the Feds look further into his claim and determine it was all
> :: made up Floyd will be going away for awhile.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> It's impossible to prove that Floyd made it all up.
>
> If it were possible, however, it would show that everyone who donated to
> the Floyd Fairness Fund was ripped off. He lied to them.
>
> thanks,
>
> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
Thanks for sharing your hard on for the Floyd Fairness Fund, Fred.


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 10:18 am
From: "F. Kurgan Gringioni"

"B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:G4KdneTONd98mGHWnZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> On 5/25/2010 11:35 AM, F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>
>> "raamman" <raamman@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:4fec21bc-75ac-4524-a8fe-...
>>
>> :: after the Feds look further into his claim and determine it was all
>> :: made up Floyd will be going away for awhile.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dumbass -
>>
>> It's impossible to prove that Floyd made it all up.
>>
>> If it were possible, however, it would show that everyone who donated to
>> the Floyd Fairness Fund was ripped off. He lied to them.
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
> Thanks for sharing your hard on for the Floyd Fairness Fund, Fred.

Dumbass -

You're very welcome.

How much did you donate?

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 11:43 am
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/25/2010 1:18 PM, F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> "B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:G4KdneTONd98mGHWnZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> On 5/25/2010 11:35 AM, F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>>
>>> "raamman" <raamman@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4fec21bc-75ac-4524-a8fe-...
>>>
>>> :: after the Feds look further into his claim and determine it was all
>>> :: made up Floyd will be going away for awhile.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dumbass -
>>>
>>> It's impossible to prove that Floyd made it all up.
>>>
>>> If it were possible, however, it would show that everyone who donated to
>>> the Floyd Fairness Fund was ripped off. He lied to them.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>>
>>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>> Thanks for sharing your hard on for the Floyd Fairness Fund, Fred.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> You're very welcome.
>
> How much did you donate?
>
> thanks,
>
> Fred. presented by Gringioni.

Nothing. And you?


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 11:56 am
From: "F. Kurgan Gringioni"

"B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message >>
>> Dumbass -
>>
>> You're very welcome.
>>
>> How much did you donate?
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>
> Nothing. And you?


Dumbass -

Nothing.

I did, however, buy three copies of "Posivitely False" last week, online.
They were new and the cheapest one cost $0.49. Fucking hilarious.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.

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