Thursday, May 27, 2010

Medarticles Articles required 28/05/10

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Dear Plz help with the following articles. Thanks in advance

1. Chemometrics-assisted spectrophotometric method for simultaneous determination of vitamins in complex mixtures
Yu B. Monakhova, S. P. Mushtakova, S. S. Kolesnikova & S. A. Astakhov
Analytical and Bioanalytical Chemistry, Vol. 397 (3), Page: 1297 - 1306
DOI: 10.1007/s00216-010-3623-x

2. Spectrophotometric and spectrodensitometric methods for the determination of rivastigmine hydrogen tartrate in presence of its degradation product (p 225-233)
Maissa Y. Salem, Amira M. El-Kosasy, Mohamed G. El-Bardicy, Mhamed Abd El-Rahman
DOI: 10.1002/dta.121

3. Spectrophotometric and chemometric determination of hydrochlorothiazide and spironolactone in binary mixture in the presence of their impurities and degradants
Maha A. Hegazy, Fadia H. Metwaly, M. Abdelkawy, Nada S. Abdelwahab
Published Online: Apr 20 2010 7:18AM, (p 243-251)
DOI: 10.1002/dta.125

4. Development and validation of spectrofluorimetric method for determination of haloperidol in pharmaceutical dosage forms (p 252-258)
Nafisur Rahman, Sana Siddiqui
DOI: 10.1002/dta.126

5. Assay conditions and validation of a new UV spectrophotometric method using microplates for the determination of polyphenol content
Iñigo Uriarte Pueyo and María Isabel Calvo
Fitoterapia, Volume 80, Issue 8, December 2009, Pages 465-467
doi:10.1016/j.fitote.2009.06.008




Thanks

Best Regards

P. Rathee
Asst. Professor
PDM College of Pharmacy
Bahadurgarh
Ph:09466593965
Res:01262295660

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:2713 Prevention of mother/parent to child infection of HIV

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There is a very useful toolkit just developed for prevention of mother/parent to child infection of HIV.

Sharing the same with you all.

Regards,

Dr.Rajesh Gopal.

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rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

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rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Landis was CLEAN!!! - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/1406c91a2b91765d?hl=en
* Cleaning and scrubbing a new tyre. - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/be745755af3b3b18?hl=en
* Landis revelations : pieces of the puzzle falling into place...LA's 2009 TDF
blood profile explained ? - 6 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a1c101c55187feef?hl=en
* Still in Lance's Gushing Little Schoolgirl Man Crush Camp ? - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/829a9d89e5e28bc7?hl=en
* Federal Investigation widened... - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/27cdb77f089bfdaf?hl=en
* Has anybody noticed... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f3b9bfeb75418ec6?hl=en
* Landis to be rewarded $$$ under whistle blower and protected - 2 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2a8d1c3949649f92?hl=en
* Q for the "Get Lance" Camp - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/1771350564bfd3a6?hl=en
* Over/under - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0dc78e7a29aee9c2?hl=en
* Still in Lance's Innocence Camp ? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/791f129b5933acea?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Landis was CLEAN!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/1406c91a2b91765d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 4:47 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/27/2010 5:46 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:
> Since Lafferty asked me to remind him, here he is telling us all how he
> knew Landis was clean during the 2006 Tour (http://tinyurl.com/3acmyua):
>
>
> B. Lafferty wrote:
>
> Here it is, Chump. No current or former employees/teammates of Landis
> have indicated him to be riding anything but clean. Can't say the same
> for Armstrong. No blood or urine samples of Landis have come up with EPO
> in them. Can't say that for Armstrong. Landis' climbing wattages (and
> those of the other Tour riders this year in the absence of Armstrong,
> Basso and Ullrich) are at levels not consistent with EPO usage/blood
> doping.
You appear to be a bit obsessed. Carry on.


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 4:49 pm
From: Anton Berlin


Lafferty - you got some splaining to do


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 7:19 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


B. Lafferty wrote:
> On 5/27/2010 5:46 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:
>> Since Lafferty asked me to remind him, here he is telling us all how he
>> knew Landis was clean during the 2006 Tour (http://tinyurl.com/3acmyua):
>>
>>
>> B. Lafferty wrote:
>>
>> Here it is, Chump. No current or former employees/teammates of Landis
>> have indicated him to be riding anything but clean. Can't say the same
>> for Armstrong. No blood or urine samples of Landis have come up with EPO
>> in them. Can't say that for Armstrong. Landis' climbing wattages (and
>> those of the other Tour riders this year in the absence of Armstrong,
>> Basso and Ullrich) are at levels not consistent with EPO usage/blood
>> doping.
> You appear to be a bit obsessed. Carry on.

OK. Don't deny saying it next time.

How about Ullrich before Operation Puerto? Do you remember arguing that
he was clean too?


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 8:17 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


Anton Berlin wrote:
> Lafferty - you got some splaining to do

His inaccuracies have been pointed out many times before. He ignores
them and generates new ones.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cleaning and scrubbing a new tyre.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/be745755af3b3b18?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 4:52 pm
From: Anton Berlin


On May 27, 12:50 pm, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On May 27, 10:00 am, "z, fred" <N...@not.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Andy Coggan wrote:
> > > On May 27, 6:33 am, Lou Holtman <l...@planet.nl> wrote:
> > >> On 27 mei, 13:04, thirty-six <thirty-...@live.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > >>> Other than using a stiff naibrush and detergent on a new tyre to
> > >>> remove most of the mould release, how do you prepare a race tyre for
> > >>> the road or track preferably of minimal effort and maximum gain which
> > >>> does not significantly risk damaging the treated tyre tread?  I'm
> > >>> thinking of acetone, hypochlorite or petroleum product along with a
> > >>> powered scrubbing disc or using a scraper.
> > >> Ride them for a couple of km. The mould release on the Michelin pro2
> > >> race tires is very visible and it's completely gone after a couple of
> > >> km. Tarmac is excellent sandpaper.
>
> > > +1
>
> > > My wife got caught in a bit of a bind at track nationals in '07 when
> > > the trainer she used to warm up on for the track chewed up her
> > > VeloFlex Record (brought the trainer and not rollers because we were
> > > already flying with too much stuff). I quickly picked up a couple of
> > > Michelins and mounted them before the next session, but was worried
> > > about the mold release, so spent about 45 min out in the hotel parking
> > > lot scraping the tires against the concrete every which way. By the
> > > time I was done they were completely clean.
>
> > > Andy Coggan
>
> > Why didn't you just ride around the parking lot for a couple of laps
> > with the bike leaned way over?
>
> It was a tight parking lot and I didn't want to crash into anyone/
> anything due to the lack of brakes.
>
> I did, though, use the cranks to spin up the rear wheel to a high
> speed and then apply it to the pavement at different angles to stop
> it.
>
> Andy Coggan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

WTF guys? Almost every rider I know keeps a bottle of rubbing alcohol
in their kit bag. Cleans wounds, sweat and tires.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 4:59 pm
From: thirty-six


On 28 May, 00:52, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 27, 12:50 pm, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 27, 10:00 am, "z, fred" <N...@not.ca> wrote:
>
> > > Andy Coggan wrote:
> > > > On May 27, 6:33 am, Lou Holtman <l...@planet.nl> wrote:
> > > >> On 27 mei, 13:04, thirty-six <thirty-...@live.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > >>> Other than using a stiff naibrush and detergent on a new tyre to
> > > >>> remove most of the mould release, how do you prepare a race tyre for
> > > >>> the road or track preferably of minimal effort and maximum gain which
> > > >>> does not significantly risk damaging the treated tyre tread?  I'm
> > > >>> thinking of acetone, hypochlorite or petroleum product along with a
> > > >>> powered scrubbing disc or using a scraper.
> > > >> Ride them for a couple of km. The mould release on the Michelin pro2
> > > >> race tires is very visible and it's completely gone after a couple of
> > > >> km. Tarmac is excellent sandpaper.
>
> > > > +1
>
> > > > My wife got caught in a bit of a bind at track nationals in '07 when
> > > > the trainer she used to warm up on for the track chewed up her
> > > > VeloFlex Record (brought the trainer and not rollers because we were
> > > > already flying with too much stuff). I quickly picked up a couple of
> > > > Michelins and mounted them before the next session, but was worried
> > > > about the mold release, so spent about 45 min out in the hotel parking
> > > > lot scraping the tires against the concrete every which way. By the
> > > > time I was done they were completely clean.
>
> > > > Andy Coggan
>
> > > Why didn't you just ride around the parking lot for a couple of laps
> > > with the bike leaned way over?
>
> > It was a tight parking lot and I didn't want to crash into anyone/
> > anything due to the lack of brakes.
>
> > I did, though, use the cranks to spin up the rear wheel to a high
> > speed and then apply it to the pavement at different angles to stop
> > it.
>
> > Andy Coggan- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> WTF guys?  Almost every rider I know keeps a bottle of rubbing alcohol
> in their kit bag.   Cleans wounds, sweat and tires.

Is that methyl alcohol? How precisely do you use it to clean a new
tyre?


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 5:18 pm
From: AMuzi


thirty-six wrote:
> Other than using a stiff naibrush and detergent on a new tyre to
> remove most of the mould release, how do you prepare a race tyre for
> the road or track preferably of minimal effort and maximum gain which
> does not significantly risk damaging the treated tyre tread? I'm
> thinking of acetone, hypochlorite or petroleum product along with a
> powered scrubbing disc or using a scraper.

One effective abrasive is concrete. Another is asphalt
mixture. Both abrasives are commonly found, in very long
strips, just about everywhere. Technically, we call these
abrasive strips "roads".

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 5:31 pm
From: thirty-six


On 28 May, 01:18, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> thirty-six wrote:
> > Other than using a stiff naibrush and detergent on a new tyre to
> > remove most of the mould release, how do you prepare a race tyre for
> > the road or track preferably of minimal effort and maximum gain which
> > does not significantly risk damaging the treated tyre tread?  I'm
> > thinking of acetone, hypochlorite or petroleum product along with a
> > powered scrubbing disc or using a scraper.
>
> One effective abrasive is concrete. Another is asphalt
> mixture. Both abrasives are commonly found, in very long
> strips, just about everywhere. Technically, we call these
> abrasive strips "roads".

This doesn't help. In my experience it can take over 200 miles to get
a tyre safe for hard cornering without specific method to remove the
greasing. If I didn't scrub new tyres with detergent, twice, I'd end
up on my backside(most probably) if it rained within the scrub-in
period.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Landis revelations : pieces of the puzzle falling into place...LA's
2009 TDF blood profile explained ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a1c101c55187feef?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 4:56 pm
From: Anton Berlin


On May 27, 5:11 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroForums.com> wrote:
> Brad Anders wrote:
> > On May 27, 11:59 am, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroForums.com> wrote:
>
> >> Well, then that gets back to cycling not being an a sport of the pure
> >> physical achievement of the human body like running, track and
> >> field, other sports like soccer where they can't gain a tremendous
> >> edge like that, even when a superstar has millions to throw at it.
> >> With cycling, there is the potential for big gain in performance by
> >> finessing the science of that gear and technology, which doesn't
> >> allow a fair playing field to those who are dirt poor. It's who has
> >> the most money and connections who gets the best edge in cycling, as
> >> where who runs the marathon is the guy with the best legs, not the
> >> best cutting edge bikes and gear
>
> > Bicycle road racing never has been about "pure physical achievement",
> > which is why it's a hell of a lot more interesting that sports that
> > are closer to that mythical ideal. Anyone who has ever raced a bike in
> > a road race knows that it's not always the strongest rider who wins
> > the race. It's a combination of specific physical abilities, bike
> > skills, tactical awareness, strategy, knowledge of the race course,
> > external factors like weather and pavement condition, etc.
>
> > Oh, and the bike and equipment, which, IMO for the most part are
> > secondary considerations. I remember Karen Kurreck (look, Henry!)
> > telling me about doing a major stage race in Europe, she was riding a
> > state-of-the-art bike with the lightest components. Karen got a chance
> > to pick up the bike of the race leader, Leontien Van Moorsel. It was a
> > steel frame with heavy wheels, it weighed a ton, and Leontien was
> > cleaning everyone's clock with it. While this is anectdotal, I think
> > all of us have seen that you don't need to spend billions to have a
> > competitive bike, and from my observation of the pro peloton over the
> > past few decades, the differences among the competitive teams have
> > been very minor. The only huge equipment difference I can think of
> > that won a major race was the famous tri-bar use by Lemond. So, I
> > think your concerns about a guy like Lance having some huge advantage
> > because of his involvement with Nike and others is unfounded. Lance
> > won those races because he was smarter, healthier (how do you go 7
> > years without ever getting puking sick at the TdF?), luckier, on
> > better teams, used better strategy, was better prepared, had better
> > genetics, etc.
>
> > Brad Anders
>
> In the old days, those bikes were heavy and very, very far from being
> anything like the advances today. Talking about the era of Bartali and
> Coppi. It wasn't about the bike back then, but the rider. Lance had the
> biggest advantage gained of any time in previous history by what he did with
> his advances in gear and technology. There is no doubt about it. Of course
> there have been more advances since that time, but Lance clearly had the
> edge during his tour years. If you missed reading about the Science of
> Lance, I'll post it again here. Lance obviously had a big advantage over the
> rest of the field through science and technology. Lance took advantage of
> everything you mentioned plus his own brand of Science. My point is simply
> this does not represent a fair and level playing field since no one except
> Lance had these top companies working together to make Lance the best. In
> other sports like Soccer, he would simply be just another competitor. Now if
> everyone was doping in say something like Soccer, then you could argue that
> might be a fair and level playing field.
>
> See below, his advantages cannot be denied, taken almost verbatim from "The
> Science of Lance" - "Versus"
>
> Lance's team looked at every aspect of cycling to make their team better.
> They made the bikes as light, strong and as safe as they could. They looked
> at not only the riders and the team as a whole but all the nuts and bolts,
> frames, helmets, even the tires and the jerseys are specially made. The
> tires were aged six years just for Lance, and the jerseys are made of
> special
> materials to shave off resistance, drag. Lances F1 team represents the best
> minds from technology, sports physiology, statistical analysis and
> aerodynamics.
>
> Calculations take into considerations the grade of the climb, the density
> of the air, the weight of the rider and the rolling resistance of the
> wheels. Lance took an active role in examining every detail. Everything is
> tested in wind tunnels from frames, body position, helmets, clothes, even
> the
> shoes. 2\3 of the drag comes off the body, 1\3 comes off the bike. Clothes
> are lighter somewhere on the average of 150 grams, and with materials used
> to cut drag, minutes could be saved on a stage. Overall as much as five
> minutes
> on the final GC. Lance's training season adds up to as many miles as riding
> nearly halfway around the globe.
>
> Lances coach Johan is one of the smartest tacticians that ever rode the
> tour and he speaks six languages, which allows him to coach a multi national
> team like Discovery, even though really it's an American team. According to
> Lance, Johan has almost never been wrong about his judgments of riders when
> they will crack in a tour stage, and can even predict it to the day. At 14
> years old,
> Lance was already better then all the top triathletes. Lances heart can pump
> 9 gallons of blood per minute at maximum heart rate, and that heart rate can
> reach an above average speed of 200 beats per minute. The average heart can
> only pump 5 gallons per minute. This makes Lances heart a third more
> effective
> then an average man's heart. He was national champion and world champion
> before cancer. After Cancer he lost 20 pounds so his power to weight ratio
> went up by 10 percent, which is huge on the climbs.
>
> Lance choose a cancer treatment that spared his lungs. Lance VO2 max test
> was some of highest numbers for cyclists tested at the labs, and his lungs
> extract far more oxygen then the average person. An impressive 83
> milliliters of oxygen for every kilogram of body weight. He generates 500
> watts of power at peak performance. An average healthy 20 year old extracts
> a mere 45 milliliters of oxygen and generates 250 watts of power. Lance's
> lungs are twice as efficient as the average racer. Lance is a physiological
> freak since for reasons unknown to science, Lance's muscles built up much
> less lactic acid then the average rider and his body eliminates that lactic
> acid much more efficiently. When he exceeds his aerobic capacity like a
> sprint to the finish Lance maintains full power longer then his rivals. The
> toughest battles take place where the air is thinnest so to increase his
> oxygen carrying capacity Lance trains and recovers at attitude. Lance
> doesn't appear to have a drop in his oxygen uptake ability as he climbs up
> at attitude higher and higher.
>
> Lance's science bears out that all his genetic advantages combined with the
> F1 team adds up to much more time then cheating by skirting controls,
> substances and such. Lance is one of the most drug tested athletes on the
> planet and he has never failed a test. Lance's climbing frames weigh about
> as much as a paperback book and are extremely stiff, which Boron was used
> to stiffen the bottom bracket. Lance is also know to always be
> looking for a millimeter of change to make a difference. Bikes are tested
> both in real and virtual wind tunnels. With the help of AMD computers,
> frames and parts could be tested in virtual wind tunnels. Colors are used to
> simulate high and low pressure areas which allow for changes to be made and
> then finally tested in a real wind tunnel. Lance likes lightness and
> stiffness because this translates into more pedal power being transferred to
> the road.
>
> Lance's tires are aged in a private cellar for six years before they are
> really the Tour. Lances team time trail was the fastest in history averaging
> 37 mph. Lance's climbing bike was 100 grams lighter then previously giving
> Lance a new advantage. Lance has changed the sport to bring more technology
> and more precise training to the tour and has set the benchmark for
> preparation to execution, and every possible related aspect of racing from
> technology, training and equipment to make a champion. Giro, Trek, and Nike
> came
> together for the first time to make Lance and team discovery go even faster.
> Lance is very good at cultivating information and getting it from different
> sources. The best companies in the cycling business came together and pulled
> their resources for Lance and it has never been done before. The main goal
> was to work together to make Lance faster in the time trial.
>
>  Allied Aerospace in San Diego was used for wind tunnels tests. The same
> technology for aircraft was applied to the bikes. Technology collected over
> the last few years was brought to the whole team. Every year Trek has looked
> at ways to improve Lances equipment and bikes. This year's TT bar for
> Lance was half as light as last year's bar.
>
> Lances TT bike is different then the team TT bikes because it is designed to
> go
> in a straight line very quickly. Team TT
> bikes were designed differently with more agility. The TT bike is more
> heavy, but more aerodynamic then the climbing bikes. The Madon SL was
> created for the best climbers and is 100 grams lighter then TT bike. Knowing
> you bike is 100 grams lighter is also a psychological difference in the
> riders frame of mind. Lance gives the thumbs up or down for products and
> Giro and Trek often rebuild products to meet Lances expectations.
>
> Chris Carmichael is Lances manager, and his motivator. Chris job is to add
> the human touch to the F1 team. Chris tracks Lances training progress in
> Colorado. Chris tested Lances VO2 level at 80 which is very high, one of the
> highest tests recorded for a cyclist. Also Lance is tested for lactate
> threshold tests at Colorado Springs. This measures the ability to work
> through the muscle burn and Lances threshold is very high. At Chris's camp
> he says to imagine the road is on fire like hot coals. Instead of pulling up
> from ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Someone's got a man crush on Lance.

(ps - that's some of the most faggy bullshit I've ever read to cover
up one simple fact - Lance dopes.)


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 4:59 pm
From: Anton Berlin


On May 27, 6:24 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You seem to be missing the point. The bike side of the "Science of
> Lance" wasn't a significant factor in his winning 7 TDF's. All that
> crap about his aged tires and 100 gm on his TT bike making a huge
> difference is simply ridiculous hyperbole that's been debunked 100
> times on r.b.tech. Wind tunnel testing for the top TT riders has been
> standard practice for years, Lance is no different. I don't believe
> for a second that his new helmet saved 23 seconds in his TT, either,
> as that is a purely theoretical prediction based on a fractional
> difference in drag as measured in a tunnel, and extrapolated to real-
> world conditions. If it made him think he was going to save 23
> seconds, that's probably where 99% of the benefit came from. IMO,
> Lance's TT position sucks, anyway, though he's not as bad as Indurain,
> who TT'ed on raw power.
>
> The real "Science of Lance" that made a difference was his training
> preparation and rigorous use of testing to assess when he needed to do
> next, along with meticulous preparation, proper mental attitude, team
> preparation and management, and a hell of a lot of good luck. That's
> what he did that resulted in a competitive advantage, and I salute him
> for doing a better job than his competitors did. Even his competitors
> acknowledge that Lance's passion for cycling and attention to detail
> is simply far beyond that of nearly all pros, plenty of quotes out
> there on this.
>
> Brad Anders

Started out as scientist and ended as a gushing little schoolgirl.
You and GBMT should try to go 50/50 on buying Lance's jock strap off
EBAY and take turns licking the cup.

The 'passion' comes from the fact he's doping and the training doesn't
burn him out and trash him like clean non-doped humans.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 6:25 pm
From: "Mark J."


Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
[...]
> There may be a dark truth to all this that involves all those that Floyd
> named. But right now, nobody here has anything new to support such
> claims. Floyd is not credible. This isn't "Lost" with Floyd playing the
> part of Ben, the least-likely to be redeemed and yet, in the fairy-tale
> ending, even his sins are wiped clean. He can wish, but he won't get.

I think Floyd's the smoke monster.

Mark J.


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 6:31 pm
From: "GoneBeforeMyTime"


Anton Berlin wrote:
> On May 27, 5:11 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroForums.com> wrote:
>> Brad Anders wrote:
>>> On May 27, 11:59 am, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroForums.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Well, then that gets back to cycling not being an a sport of the
>>>> pure physical achievement of the human body like running, track and
>>>> field, other sports like soccer where they can't gain a tremendous
>>>> edge like that, even when a superstar has millions to throw at it.
>>>> With cycling, there is the potential for big gain in performance by
>>>> finessing the science of that gear and technology, which doesn't
>>>> allow a fair playing field to those who are dirt poor. It's who has
>>>> the most money and connections who gets the best edge in cycling,
>>>> as where who runs the marathon is the guy with the best legs, not
>>>> the best cutting edge bikes and gear
>>
>>> Bicycle road racing never has been about "pure physical
>>> achievement", which is why it's a hell of a lot more interesting
>>> that sports that are closer to that mythical ideal. Anyone who has
>>> ever raced a bike in a road race knows that it's not always the
>>> strongest rider who wins the race. It's a combination of specific
>>> physical abilities, bike skills, tactical awareness, strategy,
>>> knowledge of the race course, external factors like weather and
>>> pavement condition, etc.
>>
>>> Oh, and the bike and equipment, which, IMO for the most part are
>>> secondary considerations. I remember Karen Kurreck (look, Henry!)
>>> telling me about doing a major stage race in Europe, she was riding
>>> a state-of-the-art bike with the lightest components. Karen got a
>>> chance to pick up the bike of the race leader, Leontien Van
>>> Moorsel. It was a steel frame with heavy wheels, it weighed a ton,
>>> and Leontien was cleaning everyone's clock with it. While this is
>>> anectdotal, I think all of us have seen that you don't need to
>>> spend billions to have a competitive bike, and from my observation
>>> of the pro peloton over the past few decades, the differences among
>>> the competitive teams have been very minor. The only huge equipment
>>> difference I can think of that won a major race was the famous
>>> tri-bar use by Lemond. So, I think your concerns about a guy like
>>> Lance having some huge advantage because of his involvement with
>>> Nike and others is unfounded. Lance won those races because he was
>>> smarter, healthier (how do you go 7 years without ever getting
>>> puking sick at the TdF?), luckier, on better teams, used better
>>> strategy, was better prepared, had better genetics, etc.
>>
>>> Brad Anders
>>
>> In the old days, those bikes were heavy and very, very far from being
>> anything like the advances today. Talking about the era of Bartali
>> and Coppi. It wasn't about the bike back then, but the rider. Lance
>> had the biggest advantage gained of any time in previous history by
>> what he did with his advances in gear and technology. There is no
>> doubt about it. Of course there have been more advances since that
>> time, but Lance clearly had the edge during his tour years. If you
>> missed reading about the Science of Lance, I'll post it again here.
>> Lance obviously had a big advantage over the rest of the field
>> through science and technology. Lance took advantage of everything
>> you mentioned plus his own brand of Science. My point is simply this
>> does not represent a fair and level playing field since no one
>> except Lance had these top companies working together to make Lance
>> the best. In other sports like Soccer, he would simply be just
>> another competitor. Now if everyone was doping in say something like
>> Soccer, then you could argue that might be a fair and level playing
>> field.
>>
>> See below, his advantages cannot be denied, taken almost verbatim
>> from "The Science of Lance" - "Versus"
>>
>> Lance's team looked at every aspect of cycling to make their team
>> better. They made the bikes as light, strong and as safe as they
>> could. They looked at not only the riders and the team as a whole
>> but all the nuts and bolts, frames, helmets, even the tires and the
>> jerseys are specially made. The tires were aged six years just for
>> Lance, and the jerseys are made of special
>> materials to shave off resistance, drag. Lances F1 team represents
>> the best minds from technology, sports physiology, statistical
>> analysis and aerodynamics.
>>
>> Calculations take into considerations the grade of the climb, the
>> density of the air, the weight of the rider and the rolling
>> resistance of the wheels. Lance took an active role in examining
>> every detail. Everything is tested in wind tunnels from frames, body
>> position, helmets, clothes, even the
>> shoes. 2\3 of the drag comes off the body, 1\3 comes off the bike.
>> Clothes are lighter somewhere on the average of 150 grams, and with
>> materials used to cut drag, minutes could be saved on a stage.
>> Overall as much as five minutes
>> on the final GC. Lance's training season adds up to as many miles as
>> riding nearly halfway around the globe.
>>
>> Lances coach Johan is one of the smartest tacticians that ever rode
>> the tour and he speaks six languages, which allows him to coach a
>> multi national team like Discovery, even though really it's an
>> American team. According to Lance, Johan has almost never been wrong
>> about his judgments of riders when they will crack in a tour stage,
>> and can even predict it to the day. At 14 years old,
>> Lance was already better then all the top triathletes. Lances heart
>> can pump 9 gallons of blood per minute at maximum heart rate, and
>> that heart rate can reach an above average speed of 200 beats per
>> minute. The average heart can only pump 5 gallons per minute. This
>> makes Lances heart a third more effective
>> then an average man's heart. He was national champion and world
>> champion before cancer. After Cancer he lost 20 pounds so his power
>> to weight ratio went up by 10 percent, which is huge on the climbs.
>>
>> Lance choose a cancer treatment that spared his lungs. Lance VO2 max
>> test was some of highest numbers for cyclists tested at the labs,
>> and his lungs extract far more oxygen then the average person. An
>> impressive 83 milliliters of oxygen for every kilogram of body
>> weight. He generates 500 watts of power at peak performance. An
>> average healthy 20 year old extracts a mere 45 milliliters of oxygen
>> and generates 250 watts of power. Lance's lungs are twice as
>> efficient as the average racer. Lance is a physiological freak since
>> for reasons unknown to science, Lance's muscles built up much less
>> lactic acid then the average rider and his body eliminates that
>> lactic acid much more efficiently. When he exceeds his aerobic
>> capacity like a sprint to the finish Lance maintains full power
>> longer then his rivals. The toughest battles take place where the
>> air is thinnest so to increase his oxygen carrying capacity Lance
>> trains and recovers at attitude. Lance doesn't appear to have a drop
>> in his oxygen uptake ability as he climbs up at attitude higher and
>> higher.
>>
>> Lance's science bears out that all his genetic advantages combined
>> with the F1 team adds up to much more time then cheating by skirting
>> controls, substances and such. Lance is one of the most drug tested
>> athletes on the planet and he has never failed a test. Lance's
>> climbing frames weigh about as much as a paperback book and are
>> extremely stiff, which Boron was used to stiffen the bottom bracket.
>> Lance is also know to always be
>> looking for a millimeter of change to make a difference. Bikes are
>> tested both in real and virtual wind tunnels. With the help of AMD
>> computers, frames and parts could be tested in virtual wind tunnels.
>> Colors are used to simulate high and low pressure areas which allow
>> for changes to be made and then finally tested in a real wind
>> tunnel. Lance likes lightness and stiffness because this translates
>> into more pedal power being transferred to the road.
>>
>> Lance's tires are aged in a private cellar for six years before they
>> are really the Tour. Lances team time trail was the fastest in
>> history averaging 37 mph. Lance's climbing bike was 100 grams
>> lighter then previously giving Lance a new advantage. Lance has
>> changed the sport to bring more technology and more precise training
>> to the tour and has set the benchmark for preparation to execution,
>> and every possible related aspect of racing from technology,
>> training and equipment to make a champion. Giro, Trek, and Nike came
>> together for the first time to make Lance and team discovery go even
>> faster. Lance is very good at cultivating information and getting it
>> from different sources. The best companies in the cycling business
>> came together and pulled their resources for Lance and it has never
>> been done before. The main goal was to work together to make Lance
>> faster in the time trial.
>>
>> Allied Aerospace in San Diego was used for wind tunnels tests. The
>> same technology for aircraft was applied to the bikes. Technology
>> collected over the last few years was brought to the whole team.
>> Every year Trek has looked at ways to improve Lances equipment and
>> bikes. This year's TT bar for
>> Lance was half as light as last year's bar.
>>
>> Lances TT bike is different then the team TT bikes because it is
>> designed to go
>> in a straight line very quickly. Team TT
>> bikes were designed differently with more agility. The TT bike is
>> more heavy, but more aerodynamic then the climbing bikes. The Madon
>> SL was created for the best climbers and is 100 grams lighter then
>> TT bike. Knowing you bike is 100 grams lighter is also a
>> psychological difference in the riders frame of mind. Lance gives
>> the thumbs up or down for products and Giro and Trek often rebuild
>> products to meet Lances expectations.
>>
>> Chris Carmichael is Lances manager, and his motivator. Chris job is
>> to add the human touch to the F1 team. Chris tracks Lances training
>> progress in Colorado. Chris tested Lances VO2 level at 80 which is
>> very high, one of the highest tests recorded for a cyclist. Also
>> Lance is tested for lactate threshold tests at Colorado Springs.
>> This measures the ability to work through the muscle burn and Lances
>> threshold is very high. At Chris's camp he says to imagine the road
>> is on fire like hot coals. Instead of pulling up from ...
>>
>> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Someone's got a man crush on Lance.
>
> (ps - that's some of the most faggy bullshit I've ever read to cover
> up one simple fact - Lance dopes.)

I agree, that if Lance doped, this documentary was an excellant and very
cleaver diversion. If he didn't dope, then it's the Science of Lance.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 6:28 pm
From: "GoneBeforeMyTime"


Brad Anders wrote:
> You seem to be missing the point. The bike side of the "Science of
> Lance" wasn't a significant factor in his winning 7 TDF's. All that
> crap about his aged tires and 100 gm on his TT bike making a huge
> difference is simply ridiculous hyperbole that's been debunked 100
> times on r.b.tech. Wind tunnel testing for the top TT riders has been
> standard practice for years, Lance is no different. I don't believe
> for a second that his new helmet saved 23 seconds in his TT, either,
> as that is a purely theoretical prediction based on a fractional
> difference in drag as measured in a tunnel, and extrapolated to real-
> world conditions. If it made him think he was going to save 23
> seconds, that's probably where 99% of the benefit came from. IMO,
> Lance's TT position sucks, anyway, though he's not as bad as Indurain,
> who TT'ed on raw power.
>
> The real "Science of Lance" that made a difference was his training
> preparation and rigorous use of testing to assess when he needed to do
> next, along with meticulous preparation, proper mental attitude, team
> preparation and management, and a hell of a lot of good luck. That's
> what he did that resulted in a competitive advantage, and I salute him
> for doing a better job than his competitors did. Even his competitors
> acknowledge that Lance's passion for cycling and attention to detail
> is simply far beyond that of nearly all pros, plenty of quotes out
> there on this.
>
> Brad Anders

The Science of Lance was about using and improving every aspect including
gear and technology. I'm doubting he would of won 7 tours without Giro, Nike
and Trek working together to make his go faster, IMO. Also, I'm not sure
Lance was so lucky all those years, perhaps instead Johan is an awesome baby
sitter, although I was impressed when he cut across the course during the
tour. Excellant bike handling skills.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 7:41 pm
From: Fred Flintstein


A. Dumas Fred wrote:
> Fred Flintstein wrote:
>> I've got a medal from Elite Nationals that I won on a frame
>> that I paid $20 for used. It's a Bridgestone track frame
>> which I imagine hasn't been imported for several decades.
>> I'm guessing it was 15-20 years old at the time I took my
>> medal.
>
> What colour medal? If not gold then you know the next reply.

It was bronze, the team pursuit. And it was a post-Olympic
year so lots of fast guys had to retire and get jobs. That's
the only way it can happen for fat old freds.

Fred Flintstein

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Still in Lance's Gushing Little Schoolgirl Man Crush Camp ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/829a9d89e5e28bc7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 5:06 pm
From: Anton Berlin


Senate passed the end of "Don't ask, don't tell' today but that
doesn't apply to you fruitcakes here in RBR.

Let's cut down on the faggy man crush admissions and keep this place
respectable.

There's kids in RBR so let's keep it clean and polite for the
childrens sake.

You fucking cunts are exposing them prematurely to the perversions of
adulthood.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Federal Investigation widened...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/27cdb77f089bfdaf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 5:07 pm
From: DA74


On May 27, 1:29 pm, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On May 27, 2:52 pm, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 27, 12:39 pm, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > On May 27, 1:47 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 27, 7:13 am, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > Lim never worked for/with US Postal or even Armstrong himself until
> > > > > this year.
>
> > > > dumbass,
>
> > > > okay. but landis alleges the lim gave him and leipheimer blood
> > > > transfusions.
>
> > > Indeed, he has made that (somewhat illogical, at least with respect to
> > > Leipheimer*) allegation. You, however, are the one who asserted that
> > > Lim was on US Postal's payroll.
>
> > > *Lim worked for Landis when Landis rode for Phonak, but I am not aware
> > > of any such connection between Lim and Leipheimer (other than the fact
> > > that their last names start with L).
>
> > > Andy Coggan
>
> > Why would you be aware of Levi being in a hotel room with Floyd while
> > Lim illegally performs blood transfusions on them?
>
> As I parenthetically commented, **somewhat** illogical. That is,
> absent any professional/team/coaching relationship connection, you'd
> have to believe that Lim was performing transfusions on the side as a
> favor and/or for money. Moreover, you'd have to believe that he did so
> even though he worked for Landis/Phonak, whereas Leipheimer was riding
> for Discovery Channel. None of that is impossible, obviously, but it
> does seem a bit far-fetched.
>
> Andy Coggan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

It appears you are under the assumption that the riders have some sort
of allegiance to their team that transcends their personal
relationships. Furthermore you appear to assume that a prepatore
wouldn't work with riders for more than one team. Man, either you are
cynically playing naive or you are unbelievably fucking ignorant wrt
doping practices.

Read up on Lim, because he's got the cynically naive thing down pat:
http://nyvelocity.com/node/3996

-DA74


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 5:14 pm
From: Anton Berlin


On May 27, 6:46 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 5/27/2010 5:42 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 05/27/2010 03:15 AM, B. Lafferty wrote:
> >> On 5/26/2010 8:43 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:
> >>> Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
>
> >>>> Anyway, I have a different question, Lafferty. Once upon
> >>>> a time, you were interested in doping prosecutions as
> >>>> a way to clean up the sport - I remember proclamations
> >>>> that now the dopers were on the run and this year we would
> >>>> see some real suffering in the mountains.
>
> >>> This is precisely how Lafferty knew Landis was clean during the 2006
> >>> TdF. Landis was in pain, he had bad days, HE WASN'T A ROBOT. Landis'
> >>> suffering was PROOF of Lance's doping. Lafferty wouldn't shut up about
> >>> that shit back in July of '06.
> >> Wrong. Show me where I said that I knew Landis was clean.
>
> >  Fromhttp://tinyurl.com/3acmyua
>
> > B. Lafferty wrote:
>
> > Here it is, Chump. No current or former employees/teammates of Landis have
> > indicated him to be riding anything but clean. Can't say the same for
> > Armstrong. No blood or urine samples of Landis have come up with EPO in
> > them. Can't say that for Armstrong. Landis' climbing wattages (and those
> > of the other Tour riders this year in the absence of Armstrong, Basso and
> > Ullrich) are at levels not consistent with EPO usage/blood doping.
>
> Yeah, I don't see where I said "Landis is riding clean."  He did not
> have the markers of doping that Armstrong had.  I do think if both rode
> clean, Landis would come out on top. I think the most you can say is
> that based on the indicators, I assumed that Landis was riding clean.
> Condemn me for giving him the benefit of the doubt in a moment of tifosi
> fever.
>
> As for the wattage, my recollection is that it was not until later that
> we had the complete wattage output for Landis. I recall that at one
> rather "interesting" point during a crucial state. Lim claimed that he
> lost real time transmissions of power output for Landis.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Lafferty - that's nuts. Landis rides like shit when he's clean.
Armstrong - we don't have a single example of him riding clean so it's
all theory.


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 5:15 pm
From: "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."


On May 27, 4:46 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>
> Yeah, I don't see where I said "Landis is riding clean."  He did not
> have the markers of doping that Armstrong had.


Dumbass -

Which would tell you, if you were objective, that one cannot come to
definitive conclusions about doping from afar.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 5:17 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/27/2010 8:14 PM, Anton Berlin wrote:
> On May 27, 6:46 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On 5/27/2010 5:42 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 05/27/2010 03:15 AM, B. Lafferty wrote:
>>>> On 5/26/2010 8:43 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:
>>>>> Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Anyway, I have a different question, Lafferty. Once upon
>>>>>> a time, you were interested in doping prosecutions as
>>>>>> a way to clean up the sport - I remember proclamations
>>>>>> that now the dopers were on the run and this year we would
>>>>>> see some real suffering in the mountains.
>>
>>>>> This is precisely how Lafferty knew Landis was clean during the 2006
>>>>> TdF. Landis was in pain, he had bad days, HE WASN'T A ROBOT. Landis'
>>>>> suffering was PROOF of Lance's doping. Lafferty wouldn't shut up about
>>>>> that shit back in July of '06.
>>>> Wrong. Show me where I said that I knew Landis was clean.
>>
>>> Fromhttp://tinyurl.com/3acmyua
>>
>>> B. Lafferty wrote:
>>
>>> Here it is, Chump. No current or former employees/teammates of Landis have
>>> indicated him to be riding anything but clean. Can't say the same for
>>> Armstrong. No blood or urine samples of Landis have come up with EPO in
>>> them. Can't say that for Armstrong. Landis' climbing wattages (and those
>>> of the other Tour riders this year in the absence of Armstrong, Basso and
>>> Ullrich) are at levels not consistent with EPO usage/blood doping.
>>
>> Yeah, I don't see where I said "Landis is riding clean." He did not
>> have the markers of doping that Armstrong had. I do think if both rode
>> clean, Landis would come out on top. I think the most you can say is
>> that based on the indicators, I assumed that Landis was riding clean.
>> Condemn me for giving him the benefit of the doubt in a moment of tifosi
>> fever.
>>
>> As for the wattage, my recollection is that it was not until later that
>> we had the complete wattage output for Landis. I recall that at one
>> rather "interesting" point during a crucial state. Lim claimed that he
>> lost real time transmissions of power output for Landis.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Lafferty - that's nuts. Landis rides like shit when he's clean.
> Armstrong - we don't have a single example of him riding clean so it's
> all theory.
You don't think Armstrong was riding clean in Barcelona and in his first
year as a pro?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Has anybody noticed...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f3b9bfeb75418ec6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 5:28 pm
From: heather


Mark J. wrote:
> ...that there's this bike race thingie going on in Italy called a "Giro"?
>
> Just wondered 'cuz it's not getting much coverage on RBR.
>
> Mark J.

every day I come here, with ridiculous hope for something race related.
I scan all the post titles (drugs, drugs, drugs, liz, drugs..) Then I
mark them all, and there's a lot of 'em, "read" without opening any of
them. It's not that I don't care, it's that I can't care.

Then I go an watch my taped coverage of the Giro.
thanks for asking!!!
heather

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Landis to be rewarded $$$ under whistle blower and protected
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2a8d1c3949649f92?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 6:08 pm
From: Anton Berlin


The nature — and even existence — of the reported federal
investigation into Floyd Landis' claims against Lance Armstrong and
others is unknown. But a San Francisco lawyer who specializes in
bringing fraud suits against government contractors says Landis could
be acting as a whistleblower for a False Claims Act suit.

If that's the case, Landis could be protected from some prosecution
and could receive up to 30 percent of any judgment from a successful
claim based on his information. And the judgment could be huge: a
person found to have broken the False Claims Act is liable for a fine
of between $5,000 and $10,000 and three times the actual damages.

So far no government official has confirmed publicly that the Landis
claims are being investigated, although the New York Times cites two
sources anonymously who confirmed the investigation. Armstrong and his
current RadioShack team have denied all of Landis' claims. On
Wednesday the team issued a statement on its Web site saying that
Armstrong expected to be vindicated by any investigation.

The USPS paid an estimated $8 million and $10 million a year to the
cycling team's management company during the Post Office's four years'
involvement with the team. Armstrong was part owner of the management
company, Tailwind Sports, which was based in San Francisco. The
company was founded by well-known investor Thomas Weisel.

A False Claims Act prosecution would have to establish that the team's
management was aware that some athletes on the team doped while
sponsored by the U.S. Postal Service. Attorney Paul D. Scott said that
could be tantamount to defrauding the federal government.

"Presumably the purpose of sponsorship is for the athletes to reflect
well on the sponsor. If it turns out there was illegal drug use and
that was known to the company at the time, and the company represented
that its athletes were clean, that would be fraud against the
government," said Scott, a former U.S. Department of Justice attorney.

Complaints made under the False Claims Act are sealed while they are
being investigated.

Read more:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/05/news/expert-floyd-landis-could-be-protected-%e2%80%94-and-rewarded-%e2%80%94-by-whistleblower-law_118741#ixzz0pBLYp5Ik


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 7:22 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


Anton Berlin wrote:
> The nature — and even existence — of the reported federal
> investigation into Floyd Landis' claims against Lance Armstrong and
> others is unknown. But a San Francisco lawyer who specializes in
> bringing fraud suits against government contractors says Landis could
> be acting as a whistleblower for a False Claims Act suit.
>
> If that's the case, Landis could be protected from some prosecution
> and could receive up to 30 percent of any judgment from a successful
> claim based on his information. And the judgment could be huge: a
> person found to have broken the False Claims Act is liable for a fine
> of between $5,000 and $10,000 and three times the actual damages.
>
> So far no government official has confirmed publicly that the Landis
> claims are being investigated, although the New York Times cites two
> sources anonymously who confirmed the investigation. Armstrong and his
> current RadioShack team have denied all of Landis' claims. On
> Wednesday the team issued a statement on its Web site saying that
> Armstrong expected to be vindicated by any investigation.
>
> The USPS paid an estimated $8 million and $10 million a year to the
> cycling team's management company during the Post Office's four years'
> involvement with the team. Armstrong was part owner of the management
> company, Tailwind Sports, which was based in San Francisco. The
> company was founded by well-known investor Thomas Weisel.
>
> A False Claims Act prosecution would have to establish that the team's
> management was aware that some athletes on the team doped while
> sponsored by the U.S. Postal Service. Attorney Paul D. Scott said that
> could be tantamount to defrauding the federal government.
>
> "Presumably the purpose of sponsorship is for the athletes to reflect
> well on the sponsor. If it turns out there was illegal drug use and
> that was known to the company at the time, and the company represented
> that its athletes were clean, that would be fraud against the
> government," said Scott, a former U.S. Department of Justice attorney.
>
> Complaints made under the False Claims Act are sealed while they are
> being investigated.
>
> Read more:
> http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/05/news/expert-floyd-landis-could-be-protected-%e2%80%94-and-rewarded-%e2%80%94-by-whistleblower-law_118741#ixzz0pBLYp5Ik

If this is true, then Tailwind is the object of the investigation, not
Armstrong. Tune in for tomorrow's continued speculation...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Q for the "Get Lance" Camp
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/1771350564bfd3a6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 6:14 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article <TulLn.12762$7d5.33@newsfe17.iad>, "z, fred" <Nope@not.ca>
wrote:

> Frederick the Great wrote:
> > In article <eIjLn.4731$mj4.4511@newsfe08.iad>, "z, fred" <Nope@not.ca>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Frederick the Great wrote:
> >>> In article <TWgLn.21196$HG1.12795@newsfe21.iad>,
> >>> "z, fred" <Nope@not.ca> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Frederick the Great wrote:
> >>>>> In article <ycmdnTxQg_8c4WDWnZ2dnUVZ_oSdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> >>>>> Fred Flintstein <bob.schwartz@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 5/26/2010 12:45 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
> >>>>>>> Honest question for those who are just dying to see Lance get nailed:
> >>>>>>> do you believe that Lance has used dope and other illegal methods in a
> >>>>>>> manner that gave him unfair advantage over the other top contenders
> >>>>>>> he's been up against? From the evidence I've seen, his competition was
> >>>>>>> juicing themselves to the gills, with everyone knowing the limits of
> >>>>>>> what they could get away with. In fact, because many were caught, you
> >>>>>>> could make the arguement that they were the ones who were trying to
> >>>>>>> get an unfair advantage, because they pushed it too far.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> IMO, what we're seeing at the top is a fair fight, albeit an enhanced
> >>>>>>> one. I haven't seen evidence that Lance was doing anything his
> >>>>>>> competition wasn't.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Brad Anders
> >>>>>> Remember that LANCE had an agreement with Dr Juice to not work
> >>>>>> for other bike racers. Restricting his potential clients probably
> >>>>>> cost LANCE a chunk of change.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Of course, LANCE's competition was doping also. But since LANCE
> >>>>>> had an exclusive, highly regarded medical adviser it is easy to
> >>>>>> make a case that he was doing things that others weren't.
> >>>>> A big advantage of the arrangement for LANCE is
> >>>>> that Dr. Fiat was not vulnerable through other
> >>>>> patients because there were none.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Dumbass,
> >>>>
> >>>> Ferrari could have/be helping athletes in other sports.
> >>> The other sports know how to keep there mouths shut.
> >>>
> >> That's not what you said in you're previous post.
> >
> > No, it is not. I was thinking only of bicycling.
> >
>
> You did not write "cyclists", you wrote "patients".

I know. I agree with you when you say
"That's not what you said in you're previous post.".

--
Old Fritz

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Over/under
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0dc78e7a29aee9c2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 7:29 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


B. Lafferty wrote:

> Please produce any of those alleged "predictions."

(http://tinyurl.com/3acmyua):


B. Lafferty wrote:

Here it is, Chump. No current or former employees/teammates of Landis
have indicated him to be riding anything but clean. Can't say the same
for Armstrong. No blood or urine samples of Landis have come up with
EPO in them. Can't say that for Armstrong. Landis' climbing wattages
(and those of the other Tour riders this year in the absence of
Armstrong, Basso and Ullrich) are at levels not consistent with EPO
usage/blood doping.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Still in Lance's Innocence Camp ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/791f129b5933acea?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 7:42 pm
From: --D-y


On May 27, 3:09 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <0dff1f72-8f85-4fc3-bd71-98885fb3e...@d12g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
>
>  raamman <raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On May 26, 4:32 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <6b0eee3d-3a43-4f93-b797-94173d071...@e21g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > >  --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
> > > > Don't trust testing, don't trust "truth machines" (which are coming,
> > > > supposedly), with humans at the controls.
>
> > > Truth machines exist. Some brain scans resolve
> > > brain activity well enough to detect when the
> > > subject is lying.
>
> > who interprets the scans and determines who or what is lying ?
>
> Do you suppose I argue that the human element is not
> present, or not corruptible?
>
> People in general have the capacity to know when
> somebody is lying. Why they do not exercise their
> capacity is a good question.

Years ago on the Carson Tonight show, an expert did a segment on
"knowing" when people were lying, by facial expressions, perhaps other
physical giveaways.
At that time, the "expertise" (according to this expert anyhow) was
that a few people can totally fake it, at least as far as facial
expressions, and maybe other mannerisms or "tells".

I've also seen reference to machines someday being able to read human
memory.
We're not there yet <g>.

Whatever, DNA was supposed to be the ultimate truther. Lying cops,
prosecutors, lab techs soon screwed that up. Expect more of the same
<g>.
--D-y

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing - 26 new messages in 7 topics - digest

Buzz It
rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Landis revelations : pieces of the puzzle falling into place...LA's 2009 TDF
blood profile explained ? - 7 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a1c101c55187feef?hl=en
* Over/under - 7 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0dc78e7a29aee9c2?hl=en
* Has anybody noticed... - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f3b9bfeb75418ec6?hl=en
* More on microdosing, Ashenden, and Caitlin - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/dfe4b2136c36fcf7?hl=en
* Federal Investigation widened... - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/27cdb77f089bfdaf?hl=en
* Landis was CLEAN!!! - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/1406c91a2b91765d?hl=en
* Cleaning and scrubbing a new tyre. - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/be745755af3b3b18?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Landis revelations : pieces of the puzzle falling into place...LA's
2009 TDF blood profile explained ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a1c101c55187feef?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 1:46 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


On 05/27/2010 12:40 PM, Anton Berlin wrote:
> On May 27, 2:24 pm, Fred Flintstein<bob.schwa...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net>
> wrote:
>> On 5/27/2010 1:59 PM, GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
>>
>>> Well, then that gets back to cycling not being an a sport of the pure
>>> physical achievement of the human body like running, track and field, other
>>> sports like soccer where they can't gain a tremendous edge like that, even
>>> when a superstar has millions to throw at it. With cycling, there is the
>>> potential for big gain in performance by finessing the science of that gear
>>> and technology, which doesn't allow a fair playing field to those who are
>>> dirt poor. It's who has the most money and connections who gets the best
>>> edge in cycling, as where who runs the marathon is the guy with the best
>>> legs, not the best cutting edge bikes and gear.
>>
>> Dude,
>>
>> I've got a medal from Elite Nationals that I won on a frame
>> that I paid $20 for used. It's a Bridgestone track frame
>> which I imagine hasn't been imported for several decades.
>> I'm guessing it was 15-20 years old at the time I took my
>> medal.
>>
>> I did have modern wheels on it, but they were off the rack
>> HED wheels.
>>
>> Guys like you are the reason companies put so much effort
>> into marketing.
>>
>> Fred Flintstein
>
> The give medals for being a cheap bastard now?

They don't just GIVE those away.


== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 2:07 pm
From: "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."


On May 27, 1:40 pm, Betty Munro <n...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> Brad Anders wrote:
> > I just realized that the ultimate effect of the "blood passport" was
> > to stimulate the invention of microdosing, which has led to a much
> > more effective and efficient use of EPO by the pro peoloton. Thanks,
> > Ashenden!
>
> Microdosing was around long before the so called passport. Back in
> Tugboats day they microdosed before removing blood for example.

Dumbass -

Whatever happened to Tugboat?

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.


== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 2:12 pm
From: Brad Anders


On May 27, 2:07 pm, "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."
<kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 27, 1:40 pm, Betty Munro <n...@mailinator.com> wrote:
>
> > Brad Anders wrote:
> > > I just realized that the ultimate effect of the "blood passport" was
> > > to stimulate the invention of microdosing, which has led to a much
> > > more effective and efficient use of EPO by the pro peoloton. Thanks,
> > > Ashenden!
>
> > Microdosing was around long before the so called passport. Back in
> > Tugboats day they microdosed before removing blood for example.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Whatever happened to Tugboat?
>
> thanks,
>
> Fred. presented by Gringioni.

Google. Dead.


== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 3:11 pm
From: "GoneBeforeMyTime"


Brad Anders wrote:
> On May 27, 11:59 am, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroForums.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, then that gets back to cycling not being an a sport of the pure
>> physical achievement of the human body like running, track and
>> field, other sports like soccer where they can't gain a tremendous
>> edge like that, even when a superstar has millions to throw at it.
>> With cycling, there is the potential for big gain in performance by
>> finessing the science of that gear and technology, which doesn't
>> allow a fair playing field to those who are dirt poor. It's who has
>> the most money and connections who gets the best edge in cycling, as
>> where who runs the marathon is the guy with the best legs, not the
>> best cutting edge bikes and gear
>
> Bicycle road racing never has been about "pure physical achievement",
> which is why it's a hell of a lot more interesting that sports that
> are closer to that mythical ideal. Anyone who has ever raced a bike in
> a road race knows that it's not always the strongest rider who wins
> the race. It's a combination of specific physical abilities, bike
> skills, tactical awareness, strategy, knowledge of the race course,
> external factors like weather and pavement condition, etc.
>
> Oh, and the bike and equipment, which, IMO for the most part are
> secondary considerations. I remember Karen Kurreck (look, Henry!)
> telling me about doing a major stage race in Europe, she was riding a
> state-of-the-art bike with the lightest components. Karen got a chance
> to pick up the bike of the race leader, Leontien Van Moorsel. It was a
> steel frame with heavy wheels, it weighed a ton, and Leontien was
> cleaning everyone's clock with it. While this is anectdotal, I think
> all of us have seen that you don't need to spend billions to have a
> competitive bike, and from my observation of the pro peloton over the
> past few decades, the differences among the competitive teams have
> been very minor. The only huge equipment difference I can think of
> that won a major race was the famous tri-bar use by Lemond. So, I
> think your concerns about a guy like Lance having some huge advantage
> because of his involvement with Nike and others is unfounded. Lance
> won those races because he was smarter, healthier (how do you go 7
> years without ever getting puking sick at the TdF?), luckier, on
> better teams, used better strategy, was better prepared, had better
> genetics, etc.
>
> Brad Anders

In the old days, those bikes were heavy and very, very far from being
anything like the advances today. Talking about the era of Bartali and
Coppi. It wasn't about the bike back then, but the rider. Lance had the
biggest advantage gained of any time in previous history by what he did with
his advances in gear and technology. There is no doubt about it. Of course
there have been more advances since that time, but Lance clearly had the
edge during his tour years. If you missed reading about the Science of
Lance, I'll post it again here. Lance obviously had a big advantage over the
rest of the field through science and technology. Lance took advantage of
everything you mentioned plus his own brand of Science. My point is simply
this does not represent a fair and level playing field since no one except
Lance had these top companies working together to make Lance the best. In
other sports like Soccer, he would simply be just another competitor. Now if
everyone was doping in say something like Soccer, then you could argue that
might be a fair and level playing field.

See below, his advantages cannot be denied, taken almost verbatim from "The
Science of Lance" - "Versus"

Lance's team looked at every aspect of cycling to make their team better.
They made the bikes as light, strong and as safe as they could. They looked
at not only the riders and the team as a whole but all the nuts and bolts,
frames, helmets, even the tires and the jerseys are specially made. The
tires were aged six years just for Lance, and the jerseys are made of
special
materials to shave off resistance, drag. Lances F1 team represents the best
minds from technology, sports physiology, statistical analysis and
aerodynamics.

Calculations take into considerations the grade of the climb, the density
of the air, the weight of the rider and the rolling resistance of the
wheels. Lance took an active role in examining every detail. Everything is
tested in wind tunnels from frames, body position, helmets, clothes, even
the
shoes. 2\3 of the drag comes off the body, 1\3 comes off the bike. Clothes
are lighter somewhere on the average of 150 grams, and with materials used
to cut drag, minutes could be saved on a stage. Overall as much as five
minutes
on the final GC. Lance's training season adds up to as many miles as riding
nearly halfway around the globe.

Lances coach Johan is one of the smartest tacticians that ever rode the
tour and he speaks six languages, which allows him to coach a multi national
team like Discovery, even though really it's an American team. According to
Lance, Johan has almost never been wrong about his judgments of riders when
they will crack in a tour stage, and can even predict it to the day. At 14
years old,
Lance was already better then all the top triathletes. Lances heart can pump
9 gallons of blood per minute at maximum heart rate, and that heart rate can
reach an above average speed of 200 beats per minute. The average heart can
only pump 5 gallons per minute. This makes Lances heart a third more
effective
then an average man's heart. He was national champion and world champion
before cancer. After Cancer he lost 20 pounds so his power to weight ratio
went up by 10 percent, which is huge on the climbs.

Lance choose a cancer treatment that spared his lungs. Lance VO2 max test
was some of highest numbers for cyclists tested at the labs, and his lungs
extract far more oxygen then the average person. An impressive 83
milliliters of oxygen for every kilogram of body weight. He generates 500
watts of power at peak performance. An average healthy 20 year old extracts
a mere 45 milliliters of oxygen and generates 250 watts of power. Lance's
lungs are twice as efficient as the average racer. Lance is a physiological
freak since for reasons unknown to science, Lance's muscles built up much
less lactic acid then the average rider and his body eliminates that lactic
acid much more efficiently. When he exceeds his aerobic capacity like a
sprint to the finish Lance maintains full power longer then his rivals. The
toughest battles take place where the air is thinnest so to increase his
oxygen carrying capacity Lance trains and recovers at attitude. Lance
doesn't appear to have a drop in his oxygen uptake ability as he climbs up
at attitude higher and higher.

Lance's science bears out that all his genetic advantages combined with the
F1 team adds up to much more time then cheating by skirting controls,
substances and such. Lance is one of the most drug tested athletes on the
planet and he has never failed a test. Lance's climbing frames weigh about
as much as a paperback book and are extremely stiff, which Boron was used
to stiffen the bottom bracket. Lance is also know to always be
looking for a millimeter of change to make a difference. Bikes are tested
both in real and virtual wind tunnels. With the help of AMD computers,
frames and parts could be tested in virtual wind tunnels. Colors are used to
simulate high and low pressure areas which allow for changes to be made and
then finally tested in a real wind tunnel. Lance likes lightness and
stiffness because this translates into more pedal power being transferred to
the road.

Lance's tires are aged in a private cellar for six years before they are
really the Tour. Lances team time trail was the fastest in history averaging
37 mph. Lance's climbing bike was 100 grams lighter then previously giving
Lance a new advantage. Lance has changed the sport to bring more technology
and more precise training to the tour and has set the benchmark for
preparation to execution, and every possible related aspect of racing from
technology, training and equipment to make a champion. Giro, Trek, and Nike
came
together for the first time to make Lance and team discovery go even faster.
Lance is very good at cultivating information and getting it from different
sources. The best companies in the cycling business came together and pulled
their resources for Lance and it has never been done before. The main goal
was to work together to make Lance faster in the time trial.

Allied Aerospace in San Diego was used for wind tunnels tests. The same
technology for aircraft was applied to the bikes. Technology collected over
the last few years was brought to the whole team. Every year Trek has looked
at ways to improve Lances equipment and bikes. This year's TT bar for
Lance was half as light as last year's bar.

Lances TT bike is different then the team TT bikes because it is designed to
go
in a straight line very quickly. Team TT
bikes were designed differently with more agility. The TT bike is more
heavy, but more aerodynamic then the climbing bikes. The Madon SL was
created for the best climbers and is 100 grams lighter then TT bike. Knowing
you bike is 100 grams lighter is also a psychological difference in the
riders frame of mind. Lance gives the thumbs up or down for products and
Giro and Trek often rebuild products to meet Lances expectations.

Chris Carmichael is Lances manager, and his motivator. Chris job is to add
the human touch to the F1 team. Chris tracks Lances training progress in
Colorado. Chris tested Lances VO2 level at 80 which is very high, one of the
highest tests recorded for a cyclist. Also Lance is tested for lactate
threshold tests at Colorado Springs. This measures the ability to work
through the muscle burn and Lances threshold is very high. At Chris's camp
he says to imagine the road is on fire like hot coals. Instead of pulling up
from the down stroke, imagine the bottom of the pedal stroke is hot, and you
want to get your foot away from there as quick as possible. Pulling back
over the top instead of pulling up. Lance has made a lot of improvements to
the pedal strokes. Lance has made a 10 percent improvement in his pedal
stoke from 1992 to 1999. His high cadence on the climbs is one, most
notably.

Nike has worked with Lance for four years. Lances cycling clothes for 2005
is
the best ever, a hodgepodge of specially designed materials to reduce drag
and is better then any riders in the tour. Nike offered to trim 200 grams
off of Lances TT suit which they say would amount to 45 seconds quicker in
the TT. The swift suit was revealed at the Tour this year. Four different
fabrics were engineered and added to reduce the drag in the exact spots
Lance needed it. The dimples on a golf ball which are used to add
aerodynamics were also applied to the jerseys to reduce drag in just the
right places. Seams were removed to reduce drag and with all the high
and low pressure zones adjusted with the right fabrics savings of 2
kilometers per hour was added. The Giro helmet is no longer a two piece
shell but only one molded piece, the fastest helmet in the world. The time
savings with this new helmet over the old helmet was 23 seconds. The gloves
were also designed similar to the swift suit for aerodynamics. The glove is
a gauntlet fit into the suit so as to be seamless. The aerodynamics of Nike
shoes for Lance are a special secret, but it has an extremely hard bottom
plate, carbon fiber.

Lance has always told Nike and Trek to push every year for better
improvements as long as it is legal within the rules. According to the F1
team, the tunnel tests which brings together all the best technology from
Giro, Trek, Nike, etc, added up to three or four minutes a stage.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 3:51 pm
From: "A. Dumas Fred"


Fred Flintstein wrote:
> I've got a medal from Elite Nationals that I won on a frame
> that I paid $20 for used. It's a Bridgestone track frame
> which I imagine hasn't been imported for several decades.
> I'm guessing it was 15-20 years old at the time I took my
> medal.

What colour medal? If not gold then you know the next reply.


== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 3:52 pm
From: "GoneBeforeMyTime"


Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. wrote:

> Money gives you advantages in any sport. Studies have shown that
> national achievement at the Olympics is directly related to either 1)
> the wealth of the country or 2) the amount of resources a poorer
> government is willing to throw at it (ie. East Germany in the 70's and
> 80's).
>
> thanks,
>
> Fred. presented by Gringioni.

You said "any" sport. There are sports where money obviously can be a big
advantage when you can apply it to technology, but when it comes down to
sports where it's pretty much just based on physical performance, then a lot
of competitors can afford to do the same that everyone else is doing.
Talking about eating right, sleeping, traveling, decent coaches and
trainers. For some sports, boatloads of excess money is not going to help
that much more. If you don't have the genes like a Nigerian runner, then you
don't. A lot of those guys from the old days had limited resources and
money, but their genes is what counts when it came to winning. Bolts from
Jamaica had the genes at the games, and Jamaica is not that rich of a
country, neither is Nigeria.


== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 4:24 pm
From: Brad Anders


You seem to be missing the point. The bike side of the "Science of
Lance" wasn't a significant factor in his winning 7 TDF's. All that
crap about his aged tires and 100 gm on his TT bike making a huge
difference is simply ridiculous hyperbole that's been debunked 100
times on r.b.tech. Wind tunnel testing for the top TT riders has been
standard practice for years, Lance is no different. I don't believe
for a second that his new helmet saved 23 seconds in his TT, either,
as that is a purely theoretical prediction based on a fractional
difference in drag as measured in a tunnel, and extrapolated to real-
world conditions. If it made him think he was going to save 23
seconds, that's probably where 99% of the benefit came from. IMO,
Lance's TT position sucks, anyway, though he's not as bad as Indurain,
who TT'ed on raw power.

The real "Science of Lance" that made a difference was his training
preparation and rigorous use of testing to assess when he needed to do
next, along with meticulous preparation, proper mental attitude, team
preparation and management, and a hell of a lot of good luck. That's
what he did that resulted in a competitive advantage, and I salute him
for doing a better job than his competitors did. Even his competitors
acknowledge that Lance's passion for cycling and attention to detail
is simply far beyond that of nearly all pros, plenty of quotes out
there on this.

Brad Anders

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Over/under
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0dc78e7a29aee9c2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 1:55 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


On 05/26/2010 10:13 PM, Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
> On May 26, 6:00 pm, "K. Fred Gauss"
> <Some...@Somewhere.You.Dont.Wanna.Be> wrote:
>> DA74 wrote:
>>> I think the problem is that some of you fucktards just don't like him
>>> and automatically want to get into it with him.
>>
>> Lafferty's predicted courtroom losses and public humilation for LA every
>> year for the last decade. When someone is that frequently, loudly,
>> insultingly and annoyingly wrong there are predictable consequences.
>
> What, like there have been for Paul Wolfowitz? Is he going
> to start posting to rbr too?

That's a great analogy on a couple levels. In particular, the
consequences don't cause anyone to shut up.


== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 2:03 pm
From: "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."


On May 26, 6:00 pm, "K. Fred Gauss"
<Some...@Somewhere.You.Dont.Wanna.Be> wrote:
> DA74 wrote:
> > I think the problem is that some of you fucktards just don't like him
> > and automatically want to get into it with him.
>
> Lafferty's predicted courtroom losses and public humilation for LA every
> year for the last decade. When someone is that frequently, loudly,
> insultingly and annoyingly wrong there are predictable consequences.

Nice summation.


== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 2:00 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/27/2010 1:44 PM, Fred Flintstein wrote:
> On 5/27/2010 9:07 AM, B. Lafferty wrote:
>> Actually, I have admitted to mistakes. That has happened a couple of
>> times when discussing historical matters regarding riders and teams.
>> Davey has corrected my mistakes on more than one occasion. It's occurred
>> at other times as well.
>>
>> rbr would be much more enjoyable and informative with out all the
>> personal invective. And Gone is right, I don't attack unless attacked.
>>
>> Carry on.
>
> Hey, aren't you the guy that thought the feds would be
> coming after flandis for hacking the French lab's
> computer?
>
> Fred Flintstein
That's already been asked and answered. You must have been with Wilma
when is was discussed.


== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 2:09 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/26/2010 9:00 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:
> DA74 wrote:
>
>> I think the problem is that some of you fucktards just don't like him
>> and automatically want to get into it with him.
>
> Lafferty's predicted courtroom losses and public humilation for LA every
> year for the last decade. When someone is that frequently, loudly,
> insultingly and annoyingly wrong there are predictable consequences.
Please produce any of those alleged "predictions." I recall discussing
legal possibilities, but not predicting outcomes.

As for being wrong, I've been pointing to an increasing doping problem
in the pro ranks here on Usenet since 1994. Back then I was met with
near total denial. But, I was on the money. So, put your head back up
your ass and remain ignorant.


== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 2:40 pm
From: Fred Flintstein


On 5/27/2010 4:09 PM, B. Lafferty wrote:
> On 5/26/2010 9:00 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:
>> DA74 wrote:
>>
>>> I think the problem is that some of you fucktards just don't like him
>>> and automatically want to get into it with him.
>>
>> Lafferty's predicted courtroom losses and public humilation for LA every
>> year for the last decade. When someone is that frequently, loudly,
>> insultingly and annoyingly wrong there are predictable consequences.
> Please produce any of those alleged "predictions." I recall discussing
> legal possibilities, but not predicting outcomes.
>
> As for being wrong, I've been pointing to an increasing doping problem
> in the pro ranks here on Usenet since 1994. Back then I was met with
> near total denial. But, I was on the money. So, put your head back up
> your ass and remain ignorant.

Dude, aren't you the guy that said that LANCE would be
finished once Walsh's book was published in English?

Fred Flintstein


== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 4:07 pm
From: "A. Dumas Fred"


B. Lafferty wrote:
> rbr would be much more enjoyable and informative with out all the
> personal invective.

Jesus Fucking Christ.


== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 4:20 pm
From: dave a


On 5/27/2010 2:09 PM, B. Lafferty wrote:
> On 5/26/2010 9:00 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:
>> DA74 wrote:
>>
>>> I think the problem is that some of you fucktards just don't like him
>>> and automatically want to get into it with him.
>>
>> Lafferty's predicted courtroom losses and public humilation for LA every
>> year for the last decade. When someone is that frequently, loudly,
>> insultingly and annoyingly wrong there are predictable consequences.
> Please produce any of those alleged "predictions." I recall discussing
> legal possibilities, but not predicting outcomes.
>
> As for being wrong, I've been pointing to an increasing doping problem
> in the pro ranks here on Usenet since 1994. Back then I was met with
> near total denial. But, I was on the money. So, put your head back up
> your ass and remain ignorant.

I didn't realize that Usenet had pro ranks. I do, however, totally
agree with you that there are more dopes on Usenet than ever.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Has anybody noticed...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f3b9bfeb75418ec6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 2:03 pm
From: Brad Anders


On May 26, 10:04 pm, "Mark J." <MarkUse...@comcast.net> wrote:
> ...that there's this bike race thingie going on in Italy called a "Giro"?
>
> Just wondered 'cuz it's not getting much coverage on RBR.
>
> Mark J.

8 miles of 10% agony on the Mortirolo on the agenda for tomorrow.

Brad Anders


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 2:05 pm
From: "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."


On May 27, 2:03 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 26, 10:04 pm, "Mark J." <MarkUse...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > ...that there's this bike race thingie going on in Italy called a "Giro"?
>
> > Just wondered 'cuz it's not getting much coverage on RBR.
>
> > Mark J.
>
> 8 miles of 10% agony on the Mortirolo on the agenda for tomorrow.


Dumbass -

Don't parts of the Mortirolo approach 20%?

thanks,

Fred. presnted by Gringioni.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 3:44 pm
From: "A. Dumas Fred"


curtis@the-md-russells.org wrote:
> The only rbr direct influence evident is I assume Ilan or someone
> called up when Stevo accidentally implied that Hampsten won on the
> Gavia (you can parse it slightly different, 'cause I DID roll back on
> that one and listen again). After the commercial break, he corrected
> himself.

Excellent work, minions. Thanks.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: More on microdosing, Ashenden, and Caitlin
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/dfe4b2136c36fcf7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 2:06 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


On 05/26/2010 08:32 PM, DA74 wrote:
> On May 26, 7:59 pm, "K. Fred Gauss"<n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> B. Lafferty wrote:
>>> On 5/26/2010 8:52 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:
>>>> Brad Anders wrote:
>>>>> This article has some interesting new info, too:
>>
>>>>> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/magazine/05/25/lance.armstrong/...
>>
>>>>> Quote:
>>>>> -----------------
>>>>> Landis's mention of Kristin Armstrong, who was divorced from Lance in
>>>>> 2004, raises the possibility that the feds will question her. But
>>>>> Kristin told SI in a text message, "I have not been contacted, nor am
>>>>> I in communication with Floyd or anyone else." As for Landis's claim
>>>>> that he received EPO in her presence, Kristin wrote, "I don't remember
>>>>> that."
>>>>> ------------------
>>
>>>>> Hmm, strike Kristin from those earlier reports of her cooperating with
>>>>> the feds.
>>
>>>> No, Lafferty was ambivalent about whether she'd cooperate or not.
>>
>>> I merely commented that press reports have he cooperating with the Feds.
>>> That could be part of a negotiation posture. Telling the press you
>>> don't remember is much easier to do than saying the same thing under
>>> oath of to a Federal investigator. She has a separation agreement to
>>> protect and isn't going to say anything negative until she's compelled
>>> to by a criminal subpoena to appear before a grand jury. Don't be
>>> surprised if her attorney, Herman, makes a proffer in return for immunity.
>>
>> Immunity from what?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Dude you obviously have no clue what cycling wives have to do. Here's
> a primer: Edita Rumsas.

Dumbass,
That was Rumsas. Not the same. There were/are guys all over the world
who are just DYING to poke Lance with their needles.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Federal Investigation widened...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/27cdb77f089bfdaf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 2:42 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


On 05/27/2010 03:15 AM, B. Lafferty wrote:
> On 5/26/2010 8:43 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:
>> Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
>>
>>> Anyway, I have a different question, Lafferty. Once upon
>>> a time, you were interested in doping prosecutions as
>>> a way to clean up the sport - I remember proclamations
>>> that now the dopers were on the run and this year we would
>>> see some real suffering in the mountains.
>>
>> This is precisely how Lafferty knew Landis was clean during the 2006
>> TdF. Landis was in pain, he had bad days, HE WASN'T A ROBOT. Landis'
>> suffering was PROOF of Lance's doping. Lafferty wouldn't shut up about
>> that shit back in July of '06.
> Wrong. Show me where I said that I knew Landis was clean.

From http://tinyurl.com/3acmyua

B. Lafferty wrote:

Here it is, Chump. No current or former employees/teammates of Landis have
indicated him to be riding anything but clean. Can't say the same for
Armstrong. No blood or urine samples of Landis have come up with EPO in
them. Can't say that for Armstrong. Landis' climbing wattages (and those
of the other Tour riders this year in the absence of Armstrong, Basso and
Ullrich) are at levels not consistent with EPO usage/blood doping.


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 3:45 pm
From: "Fred on a stick"


K. Fred Gauss wrote:
> On 05/27/2010 03:15 AM, B. Lafferty wrote:
>> On 5/26/2010 8:43 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:

>>> This is precisely how Lafferty knew Landis was clean during the 2006
>>> TdF. Landis was in pain, he had bad days, HE WASN'T A ROBOT. Landis'
>>> suffering was PROOF of Lance's doping. Lafferty wouldn't shut up
>>> about that shit back in July of '06.
>>
>> Wrong. Show me where I said that I knew Landis was clean.
>
> From http://tinyurl.com/3acmyua
>
> B. Lafferty wrote:
>
> Here it is, Chump. No current or former employees/teammates of
> Landis have indicated him to be riding anything but clean. Can't say
> the same for Armstrong. No blood or urine samples of Landis have
> come up with EPO in them. Can't say that for Armstrong. Landis'
> climbing wattages (and those of the other Tour riders this year in
> the absence of Armstrong, Basso and Ullrich) are at levels not
> consistent with EPO usage/blood doping.

K. Fred shoots, scores.


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 4:46 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/27/2010 5:42 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:
> On 05/27/2010 03:15 AM, B. Lafferty wrote:
>> On 5/26/2010 8:43 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:
>>> Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anyway, I have a different question, Lafferty. Once upon
>>>> a time, you were interested in doping prosecutions as
>>>> a way to clean up the sport - I remember proclamations
>>>> that now the dopers were on the run and this year we would
>>>> see some real suffering in the mountains.
>>>
>>> This is precisely how Lafferty knew Landis was clean during the 2006
>>> TdF. Landis was in pain, he had bad days, HE WASN'T A ROBOT. Landis'
>>> suffering was PROOF of Lance's doping. Lafferty wouldn't shut up about
>>> that shit back in July of '06.
>> Wrong. Show me where I said that I knew Landis was clean.
>
> From http://tinyurl.com/3acmyua
>
> B. Lafferty wrote:
>
> Here it is, Chump. No current or former employees/teammates of Landis have
> indicated him to be riding anything but clean. Can't say the same for
> Armstrong. No blood or urine samples of Landis have come up with EPO in
> them. Can't say that for Armstrong. Landis' climbing wattages (and those
> of the other Tour riders this year in the absence of Armstrong, Basso and
> Ullrich) are at levels not consistent with EPO usage/blood doping.

Yeah, I don't see where I said "Landis is riding clean." He did not
have the markers of doping that Armstrong had. I do think if both rode
clean, Landis would come out on top. I think the most you can say is
that based on the indicators, I assumed that Landis was riding clean.
Condemn me for giving him the benefit of the doubt in a moment of tifosi
fever.

As for the wattage, my recollection is that it was not until later that
we had the complete wattage output for Landis. I recall that at one
rather "interesting" point during a crucial state. Lim claimed that he
lost real time transmissions of power output for Landis.


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 4:46 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/27/2010 6:45 PM, Fred on a stick wrote:
> K. Fred Gauss wrote:
>> On 05/27/2010 03:15 AM, B. Lafferty wrote:
>>> On 5/26/2010 8:43 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:
>
>>>> This is precisely how Lafferty knew Landis was clean during the 2006
>>>> TdF. Landis was in pain, he had bad days, HE WASN'T A ROBOT. Landis'
>>>> suffering was PROOF of Lance's doping. Lafferty wouldn't shut up
>>>> about that shit back in July of '06.
>>>
>>> Wrong. Show me where I said that I knew Landis was clean.
>>
>> From http://tinyurl.com/3acmyua
>>
>> B. Lafferty wrote:
>>
>> Here it is, Chump. No current or former employees/teammates of
>> Landis have indicated him to be riding anything but clean. Can't say
>> the same for Armstrong. No blood or urine samples of Landis have
>> come up with EPO in them. Can't say that for Armstrong. Landis'
>> climbing wattages (and those of the other Tour riders this year in
>> the absence of Armstrong, Basso and Ullrich) are at levels not
>> consistent with EPO usage/blood doping.
>
> K. Fred shoots, scores.
>
>
You both need a reading for comprehension course.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Landis was CLEAN!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/1406c91a2b91765d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 2:46 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


Since Lafferty asked me to remind him, here he is telling us all how he
knew Landis was clean during the 2006 Tour (http://tinyurl.com/3acmyua):


B. Lafferty wrote:

Here it is, Chump. No current or former employees/teammates of Landis
have indicated him to be riding anything but clean. Can't say the same
for Armstrong. No blood or urine samples of Landis have come up with
EPO in them. Can't say that for Armstrong. Landis' climbing wattages
(and those of the other Tour riders this year in the absence of
Armstrong, Basso and Ullrich) are at levels not consistent with EPO
usage/blood doping.


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 4:47 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 5/27/2010 5:46 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:
> Since Lafferty asked me to remind him, here he is telling us all how he
> knew Landis was clean during the 2006 Tour (http://tinyurl.com/3acmyua):
>
>
> B. Lafferty wrote:
>
> Here it is, Chump. No current or former employees/teammates of Landis
> have indicated him to be riding anything but clean. Can't say the same
> for Armstrong. No blood or urine samples of Landis have come up with EPO
> in them. Can't say that for Armstrong. Landis' climbing wattages (and
> those of the other Tour riders this year in the absence of Armstrong,
> Basso and Ullrich) are at levels not consistent with EPO usage/blood
> doping.
You appear to be a bit obsessed. Carry on.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cleaning and scrubbing a new tyre.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/be745755af3b3b18?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 2:53 pm
From: thirty-six


On 27 May, 21:46, <pastorgreg...@lanaifaith.com> wrote:
> "thirty-six" <thirty-...@live.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:4b9020dd-d66d-4357-beed-241a810746d0@u7g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Other than using a stiff naibrush and detergent on a new tyre to
> > remove most of the mould release, how do you prepare a race tyre for
> > the road or track preferably of minimal effort and maximum gain which
> > does not significantly risk damaging the treated tyre tread?  I'm
> > thinking of acetone, hypochlorite or petroleum product along with a
> > powered scrubbing disc or using a scraper.
>
> Use a cleaner called greased lightning - works pretty good. But will dull
> aluminum so wash off right away.

Greased Lightening One minute Wheels is £15, I'm preparing these
wheels as a favour and looking to use something I've already got. I
don't mind spending a up to £5 if it saves a lot of work or risk and
I'll actually use the stuff for myself, but I'm seriously not eating
through my tyres now so I dont think I'll need anything for myself
this year.


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 4:35 pm
From: thirty-six


On 27 May, 12:04, thirty-six <thirty-...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> Other than using a stiff naibrush and detergent on a new tyre to
> remove most of the mould release, how do you prepare a race tyre for
> the road or track preferably of minimal effort and maximum gain which
> does not significantly risk damaging the treated tyre tread?  I'm
> thinking of acetone, hypochlorite or petroleum product along with a
> powered scrubbing disc or using a scraper.

It seems petroleum products remove waxes, IIRC waxes are there to help
increase the useful temperature range of a tread rubber and would
possibly not be in a track specific tread. But I wont be handling
record setting tyres so whatever tyres turn up might have waxes
included in the rubber mix. Does it matter if some waxes are removed
from the surface, wouldn't this improve a tyre over 'just clean'?


==============================================================================

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