rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=enrec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Lance don't know nothing bout no doping - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/aee6b68949d5ef2e?hl=en
* The positive effect of the Landis Accusations... - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8a54446db20f12af?hl=en
* Chapeau - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/57f54d357752ed0f?hl=en
* Federal Investigation widened... - 6 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/27cdb77f089bfdaf?hl=en
* Landis revelations : pieces of the puzzle falling into place...LA's 2009 TDF
blood profile explained ? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a1c101c55187feef?hl=en
* Still in Lance's Innocence Camp ? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/791f129b5933acea?hl=en
* Leadville is a little safer tonight - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e1546c9946374096?hl=en
* CFE - 8 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/cd678cdd6d994ee6?hl=en
* Giro d'Italia, stage 20 summary - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/ce3f630fce069be0?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lance don't know nothing bout no doping
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/aee6b68949d5ef2e?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, May 28 2010 11:06 pm
From: Kyle Legate
On Fri, 28 May 2010 12:38:55 -0700, --D-y wrote:
> On May 28, 1:30 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On May 28, 11:48 am, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On May 28, 11:56 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > So how does one rationalize this level of bullsimple bullshit with
>> > > the facts we know now?
>>
>> > > Lance the most scientific and thorough cyclist in the history of
>> > > sport doesn't even have faint knowledge of people and events that
>> > > are in his direct sphere of influence?
>>
>> > > Lance is a god damn cocksucking lying coward. Yellow really is the
>> > > only color for him, unless Crayola introduces "cunt red".
>>
>> > dumbass,
>>
>> > you've got lafferty disease.
>>
>> > you will go nuts like lafferty has if you cannot accept that there
>> > are people who may have cheated or done underhanded things and done
>> > well for themselves and will feel little or no negative consequences.
>>
>> > a lot of people, including some cyclists that fall in this category.
>>
>> > for example riis is as admitted doper yet he is one of the most
>> > highly regarded team managers and his rider dominated the northern
>> > classics. riss' success stems almost directly from his (admitted)
>> > doping - so why doesn't lafferty dream about riis in handcuffs ?
>>
>> I can't speak for Lafferty and I appreciate the occasional grift - the
>> issue I have with Lance is that he's been a complete liar in his
>> innocence, he has failed to do anything to give back to the sport that
>> he's taken so much out of, (he has the political clout to set up a
>> federal law for cyclist's safety as an example - hasn't even done it
>> for Texas and/or even lend his name to something concrete like setting
>> up more trails and bike paths as seen in Europe.
>
> <http://cityofaustin.org/publicworks/bikeway.htm> That "happened"
> because Lance endorsed it.
>
> Mellow Johnny's is located on a bike route, and is a "commuter center"
> with showers. Very close to the center of downtown, put there on purpose
> as a part of a move toward living and working "central"; certainly not
> the best location for pure bottom line profits.
>
> Let's see... LAF. Race for the Roses. Tour de Cure. Junior program (and
> a healthy contribution to my club's unofficial junior program).
>
And don't forget about the blood analysis machine he bought for the UCI.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 5:43 am
From: RicodJour
On May 28, 2:30 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 28, 11:48 am, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On May 28, 11:56 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > So how does one rationalize this level of bullsimple bullshit with the
> > > facts we know now?
>
> > > Lance the most scientific and thorough cyclist in the history of sport
> > > doesn't even have faint knowledge of people and events that are in his
> > > direct sphere of influence?
>
> > > Lance is a god damn cocksucking lying coward. Yellow really is the
> > > only color for him, unless Crayola introduces "cunt red".
>
> > dumbass,
>
> > you've got lafferty disease.
>
> > you will go nuts like lafferty has if you cannot accept that there are
> > people who may have cheated or done underhanded things and done well
> > for themselves and will feel little or no negative consequences.
>
> > a lot of people, including some cyclists that fall in this category.
>
> > for example riis is as admitted doper yet he is one of the most highly
> > regarded team managers and his rider dominated the northern classics.
> > riss' success stems almost directly from his (admitted) doping - so
> > why doesn't lafferty dream about riis in handcuffs ?
>
> I can't speak for Lafferty and I appreciate the occasional grift - the
> issue I have with Lance is that he's been a complete liar in his
> innocence, he has failed to do anything to give back to the sport that
> he's taken so much out of, (he has the political clout to set up a
> federal law for cyclist's safety as an example - hasn't even done it
> for Texas and/or even lend his name to something concrete like setting
> up more trails and bike paths as seen in Europe.
>
> He's just a selfish lying cunt. Other than that I don't think about
> it much.
Which bothers you more - the fact that another person doesn't do
things the way you would do them, or the fact that you're not that
person?
You're also being a bit myopic about LANCE's impact, but that's okay.
R
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 10:09 am
From: --D-y
On May 29, 1:06 am, Kyle Legate <n...@none.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 May 2010 12:38:55 -0700, --D-y wrote:
> > On May 28, 1:30 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On May 28, 11:48 am, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > On May 28, 11:56 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > So how does one rationalize this level of bullsimple bullshit with
> >> > > the facts we know now?
>
> >> > > Lance the most scientific and thorough cyclist in the history of
> >> > > sport doesn't even have faint knowledge of people and events that
> >> > > are in his direct sphere of influence?
>
> >> > > Lance is a god damn cocksucking lying coward. Yellow really is the
> >> > > only color for him, unless Crayola introduces "cunt red".
>
> >> > dumbass,
>
> >> > you've got lafferty disease.
>
> >> > you will go nuts like lafferty has if you cannot accept that there
> >> > are people who may have cheated or done underhanded things and done
> >> > well for themselves and will feel little or no negative consequences.
>
> >> > a lot of people, including some cyclists that fall in this category.
>
> >> > for example riis is as admitted doper yet he is one of the most
> >> > highly regarded team managers and his rider dominated the northern
> >> > classics. riss' success stems almost directly from his (admitted)
> >> > doping - so why doesn't lafferty dream about riis in handcuffs ?
>
> >> I can't speak for Lafferty and I appreciate the occasional grift - the
> >> issue I have with Lance is that he's been a complete liar in his
> >> innocence, he has failed to do anything to give back to the sport that
> >> he's taken so much out of, (he has the political clout to set up a
> >> federal law for cyclist's safety as an example - hasn't even done it
> >> for Texas and/or even lend his name to something concrete like setting
> >> up more trails and bike paths as seen in Europe.
>
> > <http://cityofaustin.org/publicworks/bikeway.htm> That "happened"
> > because Lance endorsed it.
>
> > Mellow Johnny's is located on a bike route, and is a "commuter center"
> > with showers. Very close to the center of downtown, put there on purpose
> > as a part of a move toward living and working "central"; certainly not
> > the best location for pure bottom line profits.
>
> > Let's see... LAF. Race for the Roses. Tour de Cure. Junior program (and
> > a healthy contribution to my club's unofficial junior program).
>
> And don't forget about the blood analysis machine he bought for the UCI.
<g> And some people still think he's kinda stupid.
--D-y
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The positive effect of the Landis Accusations...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8a54446db20f12af?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 2:16 am
From: Betty Munro
Ken Prager wrote:
> Nary a mention of that no-talent attention-monger in ten days...
Well now that you mention it Berlin does seem to have a bit of a double
obsession so maybe he'll have a LANCE-Liz sandwich for breakfast.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 9:18 am
From: "H. Fred Kveck"
In article <bk27d7-vv3.ln1@donaldm.homeip.net>, Betty Munro <none@mailinator.com>
wrote:
> Ken Prager wrote:
> > Nary a mention of that no-talent attention-monger in ten days...
>
> Well now that you mention it Berlin does seem to have a bit of a double
> obsession so maybe he'll have a LANCE-Liz sandwich for breakfast.
Eaten with Kunich's fork?
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 9:38 am
From: "K. Fred Gauss"
Betty Munro wrote:
> Ken Prager wrote:
>> Nary a mention of that no-talent attention-monger in ten days...
>
> Well now that you mention it Berlin does seem to have a bit of a double
> obsession so maybe he'll have a LANCE-Liz sandwich for breakfast.
Tasteless joke of the day.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Chapeau
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/57f54d357752ed0f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 4:14 am
From: Betty Munro
Fred Flintstein wrote:
> David Arroyo. A beautiful stage, ridden with great
> heart and courage.
Pity the (RAI) coverage didn't show much of the descent of the Motirolo
as one minute he was 40 seconds behind the Evans group and the next he
was past the Evans group and catching Vino.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Federal Investigation widened...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/27cdb77f089bfdaf?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 5:33 am
From: "A. Dumas Fred"
Andy Coggan wrote:
> On May 28, 2:59 am, "A. Dumas Fred" wrote:
>> Andy Coggan wrote:
>>> as unlikely that not only the UCI but also the IOC covered up
>>> Armstrong's alleged positive doping test for a mere $100k).
>> Depends on where the results are sent. As I understand it, everything
>> goes through the UCI first, so they would be able to act as gatekeeper.
>
> Not according to the IOC.
But only the UCI is supposed to have the key from sample ID to rider
name, right? So do the labs send notification of (anonymous) positive
results to WADA or IOC?
== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 6:16 am
From: Andy Coggan
On May 28, 10:42 pm, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 28, 8:19 pm, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 28, 6:33 pm, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 28, 2:31 pm, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 28, 3:19 pm, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 28, 9:22 am, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On May 28, 10:20 am, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > you think it's more plausible that Floyd made up the all
> > > > > > > the allegations of doping within US Postal, doping with each
> > > > > > > participant named, made up the story about the blood in the fridge,
> > > > > > > made up the story of the roadside team transfusion, made up the story
> > > > > > > about Lim (his closest advisor who coached him to a TdF win and
> > > > > > > subsequently defended him to anyone who would listen in print or
> > > > > > > video)
>
> > > > > > On that last point: don't forget that Lim now works for Armstrong, for
> > > > > > whom Landis clearly holds significant animosity. Falsely accusing Lim
> > > > > > could be a way of paying him back for "defecting" to the other side.
>
> > > > > > Andy Coggan
>
> > > > > So you think he went with the tactic of implicating himself over the
> > > > > course of his entire career and opening himself up to numerous civil
> > > > > and criminal liabilities to make a couple of false accusations against
> > > > > Lim for "defecting to the other side"?
>
> > > > > That is quite a theory Dr.
>
> > > > By all accounts, Landis doesn't have a penny to his name, so it would
> > > > be a waste of time and money for Lim or Leipheimer to sue him for
> > > > defamation.
>
> > > I don't think this is about renumeration. These guys are household
> > > names in the cycling community and beyond. They have reputations that
> > > one would think they'd protect. Especially with sponsorships that can
> > > sometimes dwarf their rider salaries. Sponsorships are based on one's
> > > reputation.
>
> > > A court victory or settlement is what they would be after here to
> > > clear their names. LA indicated immediately that he wasn't interested
> > > in pursuing the matter. That should be shocking to his fans. None of
> > > the others accused have even breathed the notion of suing him. That
> > > fact alone seems to speak quite loudly.
>
> > Sure, Leipheimer, Lim, Zabriskie, etc., have "skin in the game", but
> > Landis doesn't, so why should he be afraid of smearing anyone and
> > everyone with false accusations?
>
> He's obviously unafraid of either telling the truth or smearing them
> but I don't see what that has to do with my point which was in regard
> to these guys defending their good names in a court of law. You seem
> to be changing the subject a bit here.
No, you're the one who seems to have lost the plot a bit. My point is
that Landis really has no reason not to lie about having received a
transfusion by Lim. How Lim or Leipheimer feel or respond really has
nothing to do with it.
> I think if the accused have nothing to hide they'd jump at the chance
> to clear their names, but if there is something to hide then the
> current tactic is definitely advised.
>
> > > > As for criminal liabilities, what US law would Landis have broken by
> > > > receiving a blood transfusion in foreign country? (Landis has already
> > > > told the French to k***-off with respect to the hacking incident, so
> > > > clearly he's not concerned about foreign prosecution.)
>
> > > I'm talking about the US only. I don't think he'll ever visit France
> > > again. If I'm not mistaken one of the Times pieces mentioned that he
> > > may have to work an immunity deal to continue speaking with Novitzky
> > > because his email allegations left him open to potential charges.
>
> > Again, what crime could he possibly be charged with by claiming that
> > Lim performed a transfusion on him in a foreign country?
>
> I simply stated that I was suprised with your theory that Floyd may
> have implicated himself in his quest to take down Lim for defecting to
> the "other side", thereby opening himself up to potential civil and
> criminal charges. You made the leap to the transfusion in France. What
> is and is not chargable prosecutable here in the US is another story
> that will be hitting theaters soon.
No leap: I have been discussing the accusation against Lim, and only
against Lim, all along.
Andy Coggan
== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 6:22 am
From: Andy Coggan
On May 28, 6:15 pm, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 28, 2:24 pm, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 28, 3:34 pm, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 28, 9:31 am, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 28, 11:20 am, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 28, 9:12 am, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On May 28, 10:33 am, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On May 28, 8:24 am, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On May 28, 9:55 am, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > On May 28, 3:50 am, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > On May 27, 11:55 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > On May 27, 11:29 pm, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Keep in mind that we are talking abou two riders with TdF GC
> > > > > > > > > > > > ambitions, meaning that their strongest allegiance is to themselves.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > dumbass,
>
> > > > > > > > > > > fuentes was working with several TdF GC riders at the same time.
>
> > > > > > > > > > As I said, *if* Lim did in fact provide transfusions to both Landis
> > > > > > > > > > and Leipheimer, he didn't do it because he was paid to do so by Landis/
> > > > > > > > > > Phonak.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Andy Coggan
>
> > > > > > > > > Cogster - Come on now. No one suggested Floyd or Phonak paid for
> > > > > > > > > Leipheimer's alleged transfusion from Lim. Your point was that you
> > > > > > > > > thought Floyd's story was "illogical" because that would have Lim
> > > > > > > > > working on both riders while he was an employee of Floyd/Phonak. (I
> > > > > > > > > think everyone else here assumed Levi would cover the cost of his own
> > > > > > > > > transfusion).
>
> > > > > > > > In 2005 and 2006, Lim was paid by Landis to be his *personal*
> > > > > > > > assistant, and the two were quite closely connected. Thus, as I said
> > > > > > > > before if he (Lim) performed a transfusion for Leipheimer (another GC
> > > > > > > > contender, but riding for a different team), he must have done so as a
> > > > > > > > favor to someone, or because he was paid additional money by someone
> > > > > > > > other than Landis. Neither of these two possibilties make a lot of
> > > > > > > > sense to me when you consider that the allegation is that the
> > > > > > > > transfusions took place at the same time, i.e., that Landis was aware
> > > > > > > > that Lim was (allegedly) providing his services to Leipheimer as well.
> > > > > > > > IOW, why would Landis let Lim undermine his own chances that way, and
> > > > > > > > why would Lim be so up-front about his disloyal/mercenary behavior?
>
> > > > > > > > Andy Coggan- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > > > Cogster - The ProTour world may be a lot more inbred than you purport
> > > > > > > to understand it to be. You are basing your argument on the assumption
> > > > > > > that Floyd's payments to Lim retained him as his exclusive
> > > > > > > preparatore. What caused you to make this assumption?
>
> > > > > > I'm not making that assumption. I'm making the assumption that if Lim
> > > > > > were going to sell his services to somebody else, he wouldn't be so
> > > > > > obvious about it.
>
> > > > > > Andy Coggan- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > OK. Then you are making the assumption that Floyd felt he had an
> > > > > exclusive relationship with Lim. Why do you make that assumption?
>
> > > > Because of 1) the obvious closeness of their relationship, and 2) the
> > > > role model Armstrong likely provided to Landis as to how such
> > > > professional arrangements should be structured (just ask John Cobb).
>
> > > I just cannot see where you make the leap from what you describe as
> > > "obvious closeness" to exclusivity, where you think Landis had Lim all
> > > to himself. Then you make an even bigger leap by assuming Landis took
> > > professional arrangement cues from his "role model" - You then go on
> > > to assume that Lance sets up his aerodynamic professional arrangements
> > > the same way he set up his preparatore professional arrangements.
> > > Seriously?
>
> > Seriously (in that I find the conclusion plausible, not that I'm
> > convinced that it is true). That is, if I were paying someone to act
> > as my "preparatore" I would most certainly do my best to keep the
> > arrangement exclusive (be that by paying them more, threatening them,
> > keeping them under close tabs, whatever). Conversely, if I were acting
> > as a "preparatore" I wouldn't go flaunting the fact that I was working
> > with multiple competing riders by performing transfusions in the same
> > room at the same time, as that would tend to undercut the value of my
> > services.
>
> Well you should take comfort in the fact that it appears you are a
> whole lot smarter at this dope thing than Floyd, Levi and Allen
> Fucking Lim.
> > > > Again, I don't consider what Landis has alleged (with respect to Lim
> > > > providing transfusions) *impossible* - just quite implausible (and not
> > > > just because of the fact that Leipheimer was supposedly also there).
>
> > > Right. You feel this way because of a deck stacked with your personal
> > > assumptions that really don't have any basis in facts.
>
> > > Do you think it's possible that these ProTour riders, especially the
> > > very small US contingent share more information than you might
> > > realize? Have you ever been to Girona? It's quite small. Most of these
> > > guys all live within blocks of each other, that is if they're not
> > > sharing the same house. Did you ever think that maybe these
> > > friendships transcend the temporary nature of the teams they are
> > > currently under contract with? Did you ever think that maybe just
> > > maybe they all band together and it's a matter of "us" versus "them",
> > > with "them" being everyone outside their small tight group? And that
> > > maybe they might share the same time proven, test proven, "safe"
> > > preparation methods with each other? Did you ever think that this
> > > preparation for a race might be the same to them as getting a bike
> > > tuned up? Did you ever think that maybe none of this is a big secret
> > > to those on the inside?
>
> > As I said before, Landis has a credibility problem, and he himself
> > admits that he has no physical evidence to support his allegations.
> > You therefore have to evaluate the truthfulness of his accusations in
> > light of normal human behavior, known personal allegiances and
> > grudges, people's training and background, etc. In that context, his
> > claim that Lim provided transfusions to both he and Leipheimer and at
> > the same place and the same time does not make much sense to me.
>
> I don't think there is any mistaking the fact that Floyd has a lot of
> problems. So would you at least agree that Allen Fucking Lim is a
> shitty physiologist because he had no clue his rider with whom he had
> an exclusive personal training relationship was doped up to his eye-
> teeth?
No, I would not agree with that statement. Lim is not a medical
doctor, and would not/did not have access to anything other than his
power data. As I have pointed out to Lafferty (and been quoted by
CyclingNews, etc.) many times before, you can't rely on such numbers
(or VO2max testing, etc.) to definitively determine who is or isn't
doping.
Andy Coggan
== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 6:34 am
From: Andy Coggan
On May 29, 7:33 am, "A. Dumas Fred" <alexan...@dumas.fr> wrote:
> Andy Coggan wrote:
> > On May 28, 2:59 am, "A. Dumas Fred" wrote:
> >> Andy Coggan wrote:
> >>> as unlikely that not only the UCI but also the IOC covered up
> >>> Armstrong's alleged positive doping test for a mere $100k).
> >> Depends on where the results are sent. As I understand it, everything
> >> goes through the UCI first, so they would be able to act as gatekeeper.
>
> > Not according to the IOC.
>
> But only the UCI is supposed to have the key from sample ID to rider
> name, right? So do the labs send notification of (anonymous) positive
> results to WADA or IOC?
My understanding is that they do. IOW, if there had been a positive
test during the 2002 (or 2001) Tour de Suisse, both the Swiss
federation and the IOC would have been informed of that fact by the
lab.
Hence, the only way of cutting off the flow of information would have
been to bribe the lab directly - but that would require knowing which
lab to bribe, as well as probably bribing multiple lab members. That
is certainly not an impossible scenario, but it isn't what Landis has
claimed.
Andy Coggan
== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 8:02 am
From: curtis@the-md-russells.org
On Fri, 28 May 2010 13:34:58 -0700 (PDT), DA74
<davidastor74@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Do you think it's possible that these ProTour riders, especially the
>very small US contingent share more information than you might
>realize?
'
I think it is unlikely and would be founded only on the demonstrable
stupidity of some members of the Pro Tour. People commit crimes every
day and continue for years and decades among people that they
socialize with and head for the bars with every Friday and the whole
contingent, including the owners of the business defrauded, are
thoroughly surprised when the investigators show up with the boxes.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 11:14 am
From: DA74
On May 29, 6:16 am, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On May 28, 10:42 pm, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 28, 8:19 pm, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > On May 28, 6:33 pm, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 28, 2:31 pm, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 28, 3:19 pm, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On May 28, 9:22 am, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On May 28, 10:20 am, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > you think it's more plausible that Floyd made up the all
> > > > > > > > the allegations of doping within US Postal, doping with each
> > > > > > > > participant named, made up the story about the blood in the fridge,
> > > > > > > > made up the story of the roadside team transfusion, made up the story
> > > > > > > > about Lim (his closest advisor who coached him to a TdF win and
> > > > > > > > subsequently defended him to anyone who would listen in print or
> > > > > > > > video)
>
> > > > > > > On that last point: don't forget that Lim now works for Armstrong, for
> > > > > > > whom Landis clearly holds significant animosity. Falsely accusing Lim
> > > > > > > could be a way of paying him back for "defecting" to the other side.
>
> > > > > > > Andy Coggan
>
> > > > > > So you think he went with the tactic of implicating himself over the
> > > > > > course of his entire career and opening himself up to numerous civil
> > > > > > and criminal liabilities to make a couple of false accusations against
> > > > > > Lim for "defecting to the other side"?
>
> > > > > > That is quite a theory Dr.
>
> > > > > By all accounts, Landis doesn't have a penny to his name, so it would
> > > > > be a waste of time and money for Lim or Leipheimer to sue him for
> > > > > defamation.
>
> > > > I don't think this is about renumeration. These guys are household
> > > > names in the cycling community and beyond. They have reputations that
> > > > one would think they'd protect. Especially with sponsorships that can
> > > > sometimes dwarf their rider salaries. Sponsorships are based on one's
> > > > reputation.
>
> > > > A court victory or settlement is what they would be after here to
> > > > clear their names. LA indicated immediately that he wasn't interested
> > > > in pursuing the matter. That should be shocking to his fans. None of
> > > > the others accused have even breathed the notion of suing him. That
> > > > fact alone seems to speak quite loudly.
>
> > > Sure, Leipheimer, Lim, Zabriskie, etc., have "skin in the game", but
> > > Landis doesn't, so why should he be afraid of smearing anyone and
> > > everyone with false accusations?
>
> > He's obviously unafraid of either telling the truth or smearing them
> > but I don't see what that has to do with my point which was in regard
> > to these guys defending their good names in a court of law. You seem
> > to be changing the subject a bit here.
>
> No, you're the one who seems to have lost the plot a bit. My point is
> that Landis really has no reason not to lie about having received a
> transfusion by Lim. How Lim or Leipheimer feel or respond really has
> nothing to do with it.
Well then it looks like we're right back to my surprise at your
incredible theory that Floyd either truly or falsely implicated
himself by admitting to doping over the course of his entire career
thereby burning any last bridges in the pro cycling community and
completely erasing whatever shred of a reputation he had left - all
this to seek retribution from those whom he either held animosity or
wanted to pay back for defecting to the other side - and at the same
time opening himself up to potential civil and criminal liabilities.
That is an amazing theory.
Another theory that is admittedly a bit less logically circuitous is
that his latest story is true. Maybe time will tell. And maybe not.
-DA74
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Landis revelations : pieces of the puzzle falling into place...LA's
2009 TDF blood profile explained ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a1c101c55187feef?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 5:37 am
From: "B. Lafferty"
On 5/28/2010 11:45 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
> On May 28, 2:50 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On 5/28/2010 3:11 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On May 27, 4:59 pm, Anton Berlin<truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On May 27, 6:24 pm, Brad Anders<pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> You seem to be missing the point. The bike side of the "Science of
>>>>> Lance" wasn't a significant factor in his winning 7 TDF's. All that
>>>>> crap about his aged tires and 100 gm on his TT bike making a huge
>>>>> difference is simply ridiculous hyperbole that's been debunked 100
>>>>> times on r.b.tech. Wind tunnel testing for the top TT riders has been
>>>>> standard practice for years, Lance is no different. I don't believe
>>>>> for a second that his new helmet saved 23 seconds in his TT, either,
>>>>> as that is a purely theoretical prediction based on a fractional
>>>>> difference in drag as measured in a tunnel, and extrapolated to real-
>>>>> world conditions. If it made him think he was going to save 23
>>>>> seconds, that's probably where 99% of the benefit came from. IMO,
>>>>> Lance's TT position sucks, anyway, though he's not as bad as Indurain,
>>>>> who TT'ed on raw power.
>>
>>>>> The real "Science of Lance" that made a difference was his training
>>>>> preparation and rigorous use of testing to assess when he needed to do
>>>>> next, along with meticulous preparation, proper mental attitude, team
>>>>> preparation and management, and a hell of a lot of good luck. That's
>>>>> what he did that resulted in a competitive advantage, and I salute him
>>>>> for doing a better job than his competitors did. Even his competitors
>>>>> acknowledge that Lance's passion for cycling and attention to detail
>>>>> is simply far beyond that of nearly all pros, plenty of quotes out
>>>>> there on this.
>>
>>>>> Brad Anders
>>
>>>> Started out as scientist and ended as a gushing little schoolgirl.
>>>> You and GBMT should try to go 50/50 on buying Lance's jock strap off
>>>> EBAY and take turns licking the cup.
>>
>>>> The 'passion' comes from the fact he's doping and the training doesn't
>>>> burn him out and trash him like clean non-doped humans.
>>
>>> Personally, I think Lance is an asshole. Everything I said about why
>>> he's a winner is well-known, including the comments from other pros
>>> who have remarked about his dedication. As for his doping, I haven't
>>> seen any evidence he's doing anything that his competition doesn't
>>> to.
>>
>>> Oh, and if I only want to watch "clean non-doped humans" in pro
>>> cycling, please send me a list, thanks.
>>
>>> Brad Anders
>>
>> Curling
>
> Beta blockers.
>
> Brad Anders
Ale.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Still in Lance's Innocence Camp ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/791f129b5933acea?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 5:54 am
From: RicodJour
On May 27, 10:42 pm, --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
> On May 27, 3:09 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article
> > <0dff1f72-8f85-4fc3-bd71-98885fb3e...@d12g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > raamman <raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On May 26, 4:32 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <6b0eee3d-3a43-4f93-b797-94173d071...@e21g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > > --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
> > > > > Don't trust testing, don't trust "truth machines" (which are coming,
> > > > > supposedly), with humans at the controls.
>
> > > > Truth machines exist. Some brain scans resolve
> > > > brain activity well enough to detect when the
> > > > subject is lying.
>
> > > who interprets the scans and determines who or what is lying ?
>
> > Do you suppose I argue that the human element is not
> > present, or not corruptible?
>
> > People in general have the capacity to know when
> > somebody is lying. Why they do not exercise their
> > capacity is a good question.
>
> Years ago on the Carson Tonight show, an expert did a segment on
> "knowing" when people were lying, by facial expressions, perhaps other
> physical giveaways.
> At that time, the "expertise" (according to this expert anyhow) was
> that a few people can totally fake it, at least as far as facial
> expressions, and maybe other mannerisms or "tells".
Google 'facial action coding'.
R
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 8:25 am
From: raamman
On May 28, 4:25 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <9925bed5-eeb5-4f6b-9fe9-468fccead...@s41g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> raamman<raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On May 27, 4:09 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <0dff1f72-8f85-4fc3-bd71-98885fb3e...@d12g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > raamman<raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On May 26, 4:32 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > > > > In article
> > > > > <6b0eee3d-3a43-4f93-b797-94173d071...@e21g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > > > --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Don't trust testing, don't trust "truth machines" (which are coming,
> > > > > > supposedly), with humans at the controls.
>
> > > > > Truth machines exist. Some brain scans resolve
> > > > > brain activity well enough to detect when the
> > > > > subject is lying.
>
> > > > who interprets the scans and determines who or what is lying ?
>
> > > Do you suppose I argue that the human element is not
> > > present, or not corruptible?
>
> > > People in general have the capacity to know when
> > > somebody is lying. Why they do not exercise their
> > > capacity is a good question.
>
> > I don't mean to sound curt, but
>
> > yes, you can tell that to the innocents in jail.
>
> Did you tell that to the innocents in jail?
> You sound curt, you are gratuitously curt,
> you meant to sound curt, and you want to be curt.
>
> I laugh at your pretensions of caring.
> Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
>
> --
> Michael Press- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Is that your lie detector not working or are you just happy to hear
from me ?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Leadville is a little safer tonight
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e1546c9946374096?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 8:41 am
From: Amit Ghosh
On May 28, 5:48 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> Bicycle education class??
dumbass,
yes. it's taught by jobst brandt.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: CFE
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/cd678cdd6d994ee6?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 9:01 am
From: Scott
Too bad he didn't have a team to support him. He's ridden pretty
strongly and most surprisingly, aggressively throughout the Giro. How
about that late attack today??? If only he could've taken a few more
seconds, maybe he could TT his way back onto the podium tomorrow. I
think he left it 'too little, too late'.
== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 9:31 am
From: "K. Fred Gauss"
Scott wrote:
> Too bad he didn't have a team to support him. He's ridden pretty
> strongly and most surprisingly, aggressively throughout the Giro. How
> about that late attack today??? If only he could've taken a few more
> seconds, maybe he could TT his way back onto the podium tomorrow. I
> think he left it 'too little, too late'.
My opinion on him is slowly changing. I just can't get past his little
dog and threatening to cut someone's head off. That moment still defines
him, to me.
== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 9:31 am
From: Fred Flintstein
Scott wrote:
> Too bad he didn't have a team to support him. He's ridden pretty
> strongly and most surprisingly, aggressively throughout the Giro. How
> about that late attack today??? If only he could've taken a few more
> seconds, maybe he could TT his way back onto the podium tomorrow. I
> think he left it 'too little, too late'.
50 seconds on Scarponi, 51 on Nibali. 15km to work with, and
a 200m climb. It's possible, but it certainly won't be easy.
As a comparison, the final TT in the 1989 Tour was 15km, and
Lemond picked up 58 seconds on Fignon.
The opener in Amsterdam was 8.4 km, and it went like this:
CFE
Nibali @ 8 seconds
Scarponi @ 19 seconds
It's possible, but unlikely. A stage win could happen though.
Fred Flintstein
== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 9:34 am
From: "H. Fred Kveck"
In article <fedf15b4-b3f4-4952-a710-fd0c9910d3bd@40g2000pry.googlegroups.com>,
Scott <hendricks_scott@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Too bad he didn't have a team to support him. He's ridden pretty
> strongly and most surprisingly, aggressively throughout the Giro. How
> about that late attack today??? If only he could've taken a few more
> seconds, maybe he could TT his way back onto the podium tomorrow. I
> think he left it 'too little, too late'.
Based on the stage 16 TT, I don't think CFE will be able to gain enough time on
Nibali and Scarponi to get on the box. I think if he'd been able to gain about 30
seconds today, it might have been possible. You're right about his newfound
aggressive style. I wonder if BMC will look to pick up some more riders that can ride
support in GTs at the end of the year.
Arroyo has been another big surprise in this race.
== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 10:41 am
From: Fred Flintstein
H. Fred Kveck wrote:
> You're right about his newfound
> aggressive style. I wonder if BMC will look to pick up some more riders that can ride
> support in GTs at the end of the year.
He'll be 34 next year. I don't know that he's the guy to build
around for the future.
Fred Flintstein
== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 10:58 am
From: Betty Munro
Scott wrote:
> Too bad he didn't have a team to support him. He's ridden pretty
> strongly and most surprisingly, aggressively throughout the Giro. How
> about that late attack today??? If only he could've taken a few more
> seconds, maybe he could TT his way back onto the podium tomorrow. I
> think he left it 'too little, too late'.
Dunno about the GC but perhaps if he'd gone a bit earlier he could have
had a stage win today.
== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 11:06 am
From: Bob Martin
in 316172 20100529 185805 Betty Munro <none@mailinator.com> wrote:
>Scott wrote:
>> Too bad he didn't have a team to support him. He's ridden pretty
>> strongly and most surprisingly, aggressively throughout the Giro. How
>> about that late attack today??? If only he could've taken a few more
>> seconds, maybe he could TT his way back onto the podium tomorrow. I
>> think he left it 'too little, too late'.
>
>Dunno about the GC but perhaps if he'd gone a bit earlier he could have
>had a stage win today.
He made his points jersey a little safer.
== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 11:10 am
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"
"H. Fred Kveck" <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote in message
news:YOURhoward-6BFC57.09344529052010@news.giganews.com...
> In article
> <fedf15b4-b3f4-4952-a710-fd0c9910d3bd@40g2000pry.googlegroups.com>,
> Scott <hendricks_scott@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Too bad he didn't have a team to support him. He's ridden pretty
>> strongly and most surprisingly, aggressively throughout the Giro. How
>> about that late attack today??? If only he could've taken a few more
>> seconds, maybe he could TT his way back onto the podium tomorrow. I
>> think he left it 'too little, too late'.
>
> Based on the stage 16 TT, I don't think CFE will be able to gain enough
> time on
> Nibali and Scarponi to get on the box. I think if he'd been able to gain
> about 30
> seconds today, it might have been possible. You're right about his
> newfound
> aggressive style. I wonder if BMC will look to pick up some more riders
> that can ride
> support in GTs at the end of the year.
>
> Arroyo has been another big surprise in this race.
Sorry, but Cadel has to take responsibility for his lack of team mates. When
he negotiates with a team, he's in control of his destiny. He can choose to
work with someone that will guarantee a team built around him, or not. He
can decide to go for a smaller salary and larger bonus with a Grand Tour
win, with more $$$ for support folk. He can choose to not worry or deal
appropriately with the egos that come with the type of rider that could keep
up with him.
Next time I talk with Chris Horner, who was his room-mate during the TdF a
few years back, I've got to ask him about this. What goes on in Cadel's
head, regarding team mates? I remember even that year he was berating his
team for not supporting him well enough, and wondered how that made Chris
feel.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Giro d'Italia, stage 20 summary
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/ce3f630fce069be0?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 29 2010 11:02 am
From: Bob Martin
Stage 20 : May 29, Bormio - Passa del Tonale, 178 km
1 Johann Tschopp (Swi) Bbox Bouygues Telecom 5.26.47
2 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team 0.16
3 Ivan Basso (Ita) Liquigas-Doimo 0.25
4 Michele Scarponi (Ita) Androni Giocattoli
5 David Arroyo Duran (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 0.41
6 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas-Doimo 0.43
7 John Gadret (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0.48
8 Bauke Mollema (Ned) Rabobank 0.50
9 Daniele Righi (Ita) Lampre-Farnese Vini 0.57
10 Vasil Kiryienka (Blr) Caisse d'Epargne 1.02
Changes in GC, stage 20 compared to stage 19 :
Biggest gainers by position :
+19 Matthew Lloyd
+19 Daniele Righi
+18 Stefano Pirazzi
+16 Michael Schar
+15 Gilberto Simoni
+15 Craig Lewis
+15 Cayetano Sarmiento Tunarrosa
+13 Yukiya Arashiro
+12 Anders Lund
+11 Vasil Kiryienka
Biggest losers by position :
-10 Valerio Agnoli
-9 Alessandro Bisolti
-9 Jan Bakelandts
-8 Francesco Failli
-8 Rigoberto Uran Uran
-7 Giampaolo Caruso
-7 Jackson Rodriguez
-7 Jerome Pineau
-7 Juan Horrach Rippoll
-6 Andriy Grivko
-6 Branislau Samoilau
Biggest gainers by time :
+0:37 Johann Tschopp
+0:13 Cadel Evans
Biggest losers by time :
-38:07 Luca Mazzanti
-37:57 Alessandro Bertolini
-37:57 Christopher Sutton
-37:57 Dario Andriotto
-37:57 Guillaume Le Floch
-37:57 Luke Roberts
-37:57 Markus Fothen
-37:57 Michiel Elijzen
-37:57 Sebastien Hinault
-37:47 Alan Marangoni
-37:47 Brent Bookwalter
Favourites by position :
+1 Vladimir Karpets
+1 Alexandre Vinokourov
-2 Carlos Sastre Candil
-3 Linus Gerdemann
-5 Bradley Wiggins
Favourites by time :
+0:13 Cadel Evans
-0:08 Michele Scarponi
-0:26 Vincenzo Nibali
-1:09 Alexandre Vinokourov
-1:22 Damiano Cunego
-2:06 Vladimir Karpets
-3:23 Carlos Sastre Candil
-14:26 Linus Gerdemann
-37:37 Bradley Wiggins
Top 3 and favourites GC standings (previous stage in parens) :
1 Ivan Basso 87:23:00 (unchanged)
2 David Arroyo Duran 1:15 (was 2nd at 0:51)
3 Vincenzo Nibali 2:56 (was 3rd at 2:30)
4 Michele Scarponi 2:57 (was 4th at 2:49)
5 Cadel Evans 3:47 (was 5th at 4:00)
.....
7 Alexandre Vinokourov 7:31 (was 8th at 6:22)
8 Carlos Sastre Candil 8:55 (was 6th at 5:32)
.....
11 Damiano Cunego 16:45 (was 11th at 15:23)
.....
14 Vladimir Karpets 25:09 (was 15th at 23:03)
.....
16 Linus Gerdemann 34:31 (was 13th at 20:05)
.....
40 Bradley Wiggins 1:48:11 (was 35th at 1:10:34)
Top 10 on Points table with previous in parens:
1 Cadel Evans 136 (was 1st with 116 points)
2 Alexandre Vinokourov 112 (was 2nd with 105 points)
3 Ivan Basso 104 (was 5th with 88 points)
4 Vincenzo Nibali 104 (was 3rd with 94 points)
5 Michele Scarponi 103 (was 4th with 89 points)
6 Jerome Pineau 69 (was 6th with 74 points)
7 Filippo Pozzato 67 (unchanged)
8 Damiano Cunego 64 (was 10th with 61 points)
9 John Gadret 64 (was 11th with 55 points)
10 Gregory Henderson 59 (was 9th with 64 points)
Top 10 on Mountains table with previous in parens:
1 Matthew Lloyd 56 (was 2nd with 29 points)
2 Ivan Basso 41 (was 1st with 35 points)
3 Johann Tschopp 38 (was 43rd with 1 points)
4 Cadel Evans 35 (was 3rd with 25 points)
5 Michele Scarponi 25 (was 4th with 21 points)
6 Ludovic Turpin 20 (was 5th with 20 points)
7 Rubens Bertogliati 16 (was 8th with 16 points)
8 Simone Stortoni 16 (was 9th with 16 points)
9 Vincenzo Nibali 15 (was 10th with 15 points)
10 Chris Sorensen 15 (was 11th with 15 points)
Retirements to date : Stage
Gabriel Rasch (Nor) Cervelo Test Team 20 <<<
Mathieu Claude (Fra) Bbox Bouygues Telecom 20 <<<
Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Acqua & Sapone 20 <<<
William Bonnet (Fra) Bbox Bouygues Telecom 20 <<<
Xavier Tondo Volpini (Spa) Cervelo Test Team 20 <<<
Andre Greipel (Ger) Team HTC - Columbia 19
Arnold Jeannesson (Fra) Caisse d'Epargne 19
Christopher Froome (GBr) Sky Professional Cycling Team 19
Danilo Hondo (Ger) Lampre - Farnese Vini 19
Dario Cataldo (Ita) Quick Step 19
Julian Dean (NZl) Garmin - Transitions 19
Marcel Sieberg (Ger) Team HTC - Columbia 19
David Loosli (Swi) Lampre - Farnese Vini 17
Federico Canuti (Ita) Colnago - CSF Inox 17
Francesco Reda (Ita) Quick Step 17
Ermanno Capelli (Ita) Footon - Servetto 16
Leonardo Bertagnolli (Ita) Androni Giocattoli - Diquigiovani 16
Mickael Buffaz (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit en Ligne 16
Giampaolo Cheula (Ita) Footon - Servetto 15
Guillaume Blot (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit en Ligne 15
Manuel Belletti (Ita) Colnago - CSF Inox 15
Matthew Harley Goss (Aus) Team HTC - Columbia 15
Paul Voss (Ger) Team Milram 15
Robert McEwen (Aus) Team Katusha 15
Tyler Farrar (USA) Garmin - Transitions 15
Anthony Ravard (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 13
David Millar (GBr) Garmin - Transitions 13
Domenico Pozzovivo (Ita) Colnago - CSF Inox 13
Jack Bobridge (Aus) Garmin - Transitions 13
Morris Possoni (Ita) Sky Professional Cycling Team 13
Dominik Roels (Ger) Team Milram 12
Wouter Weylandt (Bel) Quick Step 12
Adam Blyth (GBr) Omega Pharma - Lotto 11
Adam Hansen (Aus) Team HTC - Columbia 11
Alberto Loddo (Ita) Androni Giocattoli - Diquigiovani 11
Alexsandr Dyachenko (Kaz) Astana 11
Enrico Gasparotto (Ita) Astana 11
Jeffry Louder (USA) BMC Racing Team 11
Martin Pedersen (Den) Footon - Servetto 11
Mauro Santambrogio (Ita) BMC Racing Team 11
Rene Mandri (Est) AG2R La Mondiale 11
Thomas Rohregger (Aut) Team Milram 11
Valentin Iglinskiy (Kaz) Astana 11
Baden Cooke (Aus) Team Saxo Bank 9
Alessandro Petacchi (Ita) Lampre - Farnese Vini 8
Andrea Masciarelli (Ita) Acqua & Sapone 8
Anthony Charteau (Fra) Bbox Bouygues Telecom 8
Dmitry Kozontchuk (Rus) Rabobank 8
Fabian Wegmann (Ger) Team Milram 8
Francesco Masciarelli (Ita) Acqua & Sapone 8
John Murphy (USA) BMC Racing Team 8
Sacha Modolo (Ita) Colnago - CSF Inox 8
Eros Capecchi (Ita) Footon - Servetto 7
Marzio Bruseghin (Ita) Caisse d'Epargne 7
Guillaume Bonnafond (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 6
Michele Merlo (Ita) Footon - Servetto 6
Paolo Tiralongo (Ita) Astana 6
Christian Vandevelde (USA) Garmin - Transitions 3
Martin Kohler (Swi) BMC Racing Team 2
Total retirements : 59
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