Saturday, June 19, 2010

Medarticles Articles required 20-06-10

Buzz It
dear Sir,
Plz help with the following articles. Thanks in advance

1. Anti-Diabetic Agents from Natural Products—An Update from 2004 to 2009
Qi, Lian-Wen1; Liu, E-Hu1; Chu, Chu1; Peng, Yong-Bo1; Cai, Hai-Xia1; Li, Ping1
Current Topics in Medicinal Chemistry, Volume 10, Number 4, March 2010 , pp. 434-457(24)
DOI: 10.2174/156802610790980620

2. Natural Products as Sources of New Drugs over the Last 25 Years
David J. Newman* and Gordon M. Cragg
Natural Products Branch, Developmental Therapeutics Program, Division of Cancer
J. Nat. Prod., 2007, 70 (3), pp 461–477
DOI: 10.1021/np068054v

3. Antidiabetic agents from medicinal plants
Jung M, Park M, Lee HC, Kang YH, Kang ES, Kim SK.
Curr Med Chem. 2006;13(10):1203-18.
PMID: 16719780

4. Antidiabetic Herbal Drugs Officially Approved
M. Manickam,† M. Ramanathan,‡ M. A. Farboodniay Jahromi,† J. P. N. Chansouria,§ and A. B. Ray
J. Nat. Prod., 1997, 60 (6), pp 609–610
DOI: 10.1021/np9607013

5. Cuminaldehyde: Aldose Reductase and α-Glucosidase Inhibitor Derived from Cuminum cyminum L. Seeds
Hoi-Seon Lee
J. Agric. Food Chem., 2005, 53 (7), pp 2446–2450
DOI: 10.1021/jf048451g





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rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

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rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Only $64 (including shipping fee) for newest GHD IV Styler--Paypal - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3edc3bf4b1e2c086?hl=en
* Need source for presta valve extenders - 8 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4673c5e794f74fb1?hl=en
* STREAMING VIDEO - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/641afb4cfdae3076?hl=en
* Sayeth the Sage of Bandon: Lightness and carbon forks - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/606226853d96451f?hl=en
* GRANNY MOVIES - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8d9dbdc1745c6612?hl=en
* Kirchen Possible Heart Attack - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0994eb0b86918592?hl=en
* LA's Big F*$king Deal - 5 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c1a1eed745739fa4?hl=en
* See Hot Sexy Star Aishwarya Rai Videos In All Angles. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/9b666ce388ad2572?hl=en
* Tour de France bikes to be scanned for motors - UCI - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/6a46e167686b1582?hl=en
* Tour De Slovénie - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/b97d8c6a290329bb?hl=en
* Tour de Suisse, stage 8 summary - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f8b7e42756f5414a?hl=en
* Liz Hatch is training in a studio! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/9ee62542783a9222?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Only $64 (including shipping fee) for newest GHD IV Styler--Paypal
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3edc3bf4b1e2c086?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Need source for presta valve extenders
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4673c5e794f74fb1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 3:04 am
From: Betty


z, fred wrote:
>>>> Looking for ones long enough for a 90 mm deep rim and where you take
>>>> the valve core out of the tire valve and thread it into the exposed
>>>> (after mounting on rim) end of the extender.

>> Steve Freides wrote:
>>> I would ask on news:rec.bicycles.tech

Betty wrote:
>> Only if you like advice from the inane and the insane.

Steve Freides wrote:
> Or answers to questions like this one.

They'll answer by telling him he should ride a box section 36 spoke tyed
and soldered rim on a steel bike before continuing with a 500 post
argument about spoking technique and eventually culminating in another
helmet war.

Is the OP looking for a date or a valve extender?

rbr is not the right place if you're looking for a date, however if he
needs the latter (extender) to operate on the former, rbr may indeed be
qualified to answer despite the fact that most around here are using s
box rim (if anything at all) when it comes to that kind of thing.

Anyway if he really wants advice he should ask van de man.


== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 6:38 am
From: "Steve Freides"


Betty wrote:
> z, fred wrote:
>>>>> Looking for ones long enough for a 90 mm deep rim and where you
>>>>> take the valve core out of the tire valve and thread it into the
>>>>> exposed (after mounting on rim) end of the extender.
>
>>> Steve Freides wrote:
>>>> I would ask on news:rec.bicycles.tech
>
> Betty wrote:
>>> Only if you like advice from the inane and the insane.
>
> Steve Freides wrote:
>> Or answers to questions like this one.
>
> They'll answer by telling him he should ride a box section 36 spoke
> tyed and soldered rim on a steel bike before continuing with a 500
> post argument about spoking technique and eventually culminating in
> another helmet war.

_and_ they'll answer his question somewhere along the way.

As to the rest, I'm riding 1980's sewup rims, so I guess I can't really
participate in that argument, can I, now? Mine are 28 hole for the most
part, though, so I guess I can claim at least some weight-weenie-dom.

> Is the OP looking for a date or a valve extender?
>
> rbr is not the right place if you're looking for a date, however if he
> needs the latter (extender) to operate on the former, rbr may indeed
> be qualified to answer despite the fact that most around here are
> using s box rim (if anything at all) when it comes to that kind of
> thing.

I'm getting a creepy feeling reading the above paragraph, although I'm
not even sure I understand it completely. Rest assured that I don't
want to understand it completely, either.

> Anyway if he really wants advice he should ask van de man.

Absolutely, or on rec.bicycles.tech. :)

-S-


== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 7:20 am
From: Fred on a stick


On 6/19/2010 6:38 AM, Steve Freides wrote:

> _and_ they'll answer his question somewhere along the way.

[...]
>> Anyway if he really wants advice he should ask van de man.
>
> Absolutely, or on rec.bicycles.tech. :)

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/f40ddbf2336b50e9


== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 7:30 am
From: Fred on a stick


On 6/19/2010 6:38 AM, Steve Freides wrote:

> Absolutely, or on rec.bicycles.tech. :)

BTW, did you not notice that a link to the right extenders was posted 4
hours before you posted your suggestion to ask on rbt?


== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 8:35 am
From: "Steve Freides"


Fred on a stick wrote:
> On 6/19/2010 6:38 AM, Steve Freides wrote:
>
>> Absolutely, or on rec.bicycles.tech. :)
>
> BTW, did you not notice that a link to the right extenders was posted
> 4 hours before you posted your suggestion to ask on rbt?

Yes, but that doesn't mean they're the only product that's out there,
and it also doesn't eliminate the need to mention a more appropriate
group in which to ask the question.

-S-


== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 9:10 am
From: "Fred on a stick"


Steve Freides wrote:
> Fred on a stick wrote:
>> On 6/19/2010 6:38 AM, Steve Freides wrote:
>>
>>> Absolutely, or on rec.bicycles.tech. :)
>>
>> BTW, did you not notice that a link to the right extenders was posted
>> 4 hours before you posted your suggestion to ask on rbt?
>
> Yes, but that doesn't mean they're the only product that's out there,
> and it also doesn't eliminate the need to mention a more appropriate
> group in which to ask the question.

Hmmm. I'm betting that more people in rbr have experience with 90mm deep
rims than in rbt. But it sounds like a little test. Why don't you post the
same question to rbt and see how long it takes to get a reasonably helpful
response.

And, there wasn't just one response: Scott suggested connecting two
extenders.


== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 2:20 pm
From: Scott


On Jun 18, 11:28 am, "Steve Freides" <st...@kbnj.com> wrote:
> z, fred wrote:
> > Looking for ones long enough for a 90 mm deep rim and where you take
> > the valve core out of the tire valve and thread it into the exposed
> > (after mounting on rim) end of the extender.
>
> I would ask on news:rec.bicycles.tech
>
> -S-

Gee, thanks for that, Steve, given that his question has already been
answered. What would we do w/out your input?


== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 2:26 pm
From: Scott


On Jun 19, 10:10 am, "Fred on a stick"
<anonymous.cow...@address.invalid> wrote:
> Steve Freides wrote:
> > Fred on a stick wrote:
> >> On 6/19/2010 6:38 AM, Steve Freides wrote:
>
> >>> Absolutely, or on rec.bicycles.tech. :)
>
> >> BTW, did you not notice that a link to the right extenders was posted
> >> 4 hours before you posted your suggestion to ask on rbt?
>
> > Yes, but that doesn't mean they're the only product that's out there,
> > and it also doesn't eliminate the need to mention a more appropriate
> > group in which to ask the question.
>
> Hmmm. I'm betting that more people in rbr have experience with 90mm deep
> rims than in rbt. But it sounds like a little test. Why don't you post the
> same question to rbt and see how long it takes to get a reasonably helpful
> response.
>
> And, there wasn't just one response: Scott suggested connecting two
> extenders.

Looks like those Topeak valve stem extenders that were also
recommended are the type that just screw onto any old valve stem, with
the valve open. They'll work, sort of, but not nearly as well as the
Vittoria extenders that essentially become part of the stem, with the
core at the end and out of the rim itself.

The longest one Vittoria makes works okay for a 60mm rim, but in my
experience the tip of the valve stem barely stuck out above an 808
rim. So, take two of the less expensive, shorter ones and screw them
together... they'll extend well beyond the rim and allow you to open/
close the valve stem with each use.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: STREAMING VIDEO
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/641afb4cfdae3076?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 3:13 am
From: Cheryl BOSTON


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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sayeth the Sage of Bandon: Lightness and carbon forks
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/606226853d96451f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 4:05 am
From: Andre Jute


Sayeth the Sage of Bandon:

The search for lightness is the vanity of cyclists.

The search for lightness in carbon forks is the vanity of cyclists
with more money than sense.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: GRANNY MOVIES
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8d9dbdc1745c6612?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 4:53 am
From: Shelby SKIPWORTH


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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Kirchen Possible Heart Attack
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0994eb0b86918592?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 6:36 am
From: "B. Lafferty"


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kirchen-suffers-suspected-heart-attack


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 1:42 pm
From: Cicero Venatio


B. Lafferty wrote:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kirchen-suffers-suspected-heart-attack
-----------
When you turn your blood into ketchup thick consistency what do you
expect is going to happen.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 2:18 pm
From: Joe Big


On Jun 19, 6:36 am, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kirchen-suffers-suspected-heart-attack

The magnetic field from his bike motor probably interfered with the
signals to his heart.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: LA's Big F*$king Deal
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c1a1eed745739fa4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 7:27 am
From: --D-y


On Jun 18, 11:50 am, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 6/18/2010 9:26 AM, --D-y wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 18, 5:38 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com>  wrote:
> >> On 6/18/2010 12:37 AM, Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. wrote:
>
> >>> On Jun 17, 3:21 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com>    wrote:
> >>>> On 6/17/2010 6:09 PM, Fred Gringioni wrote:
>
> >>>>> "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com>      wrote in message
> >>>>>news:kfGdnZm5F7pIHIfRnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
> >>>>> : On 6/17/2010 2:25 PM, Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. wrote:
> >>>>> :>      On Jun 17, 8:55 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com>       wrote:
> >>>>> :>>      On 6/17/2010 10:51 AM, Andy Coggan wrote:>       On Jun 16, 7:30 pm,
> >>>>> TheCoz<cycled...@hotmail.com>         wrote:
> >>>>> :>>>>
> >>>>>http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/post/Lance-Armstrong-rips-magazine-for-...
> >>>>> :>>>>      What comes around, goes around. Maybe Outside Mag is jumping the gun.
> >>>>> :>>>>      Landis/Lemond underground printing press release?
> >>>>> :>>>>      Coz
> >>>>> :>>
> >>>>> :>>>      Apparently the journalistic ethics of Outside Magazine are no higher
> >>>>> :>>>      than those of Perez Hilton:
> >>>>> :>>
> >>>>> :>>>
> >>>>>http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/showbiz/2010/06/16/behar.miley.photo...
> >>>>> :>>
> >>>>> :>>>      Andy Coggan
> >>>>> :>>
> >>>>> :>>      Outside Magazine has a pretty good reputation for hard-nosed reporting.
> >>>>> :>
> >>>>> :>
> >>>>> :>
> >>>>> :>
> >>>>> :>      Dumbass -
> >>>>> :>
> >>>>> :>      The piece that Krakauer did for Outside on the 1996 Everest disaster
> >>>>> :>      was one of the biggest pieces of shit I've ever read. Soooooo biased
> >>>>> :>      and, IMO, wrong too. Krakauer blamed Fisher's company for everything,
> >>>>> :>      singling out Anatoli Boukreev and neglecting to place any blame on Rob
> >>>>> :>      Hall. Lame because Boukreev is the only one who saved anyone, Fisher's
> >>>>> :>      company didn't lose and clients and Hall's company lost a number of
> >>>>> :>      clients. From what I could tell, Krakauer pointed those fingers simply
> >>>>> :>      because he didn't like Boukreev.
> >>>>> :>
> >>>>> :>      I read both Krakauer and Boukreev's books. Krakauer's account doesn't
> >>>>> :>      add up when you look at who made it and who didn't.
> >>>>> :>
> >>>>> :>      thanks,
> >>>>> :>
> >>>>> :>      Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> >>>>> : I read them all as well.  You're overstating again.  SSDD.
>
> >>>>> Dumbass -
>
> >>>>> Not really.
>
> >>>>> He didn't lay any blame on Hall.
>
> >>>>> Fisher's company lost Fisher, but no clients. Hall's company lost several
> >>>>> guides and several clients.
>
> >>>>> They both deserve blame. Krakauer let his personal bias vs. Boukreev affect
> >>>>> his journalism.
>
> >>>>> thanks,
>
> >>>>> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> >>>> Wrong news group.
>
> >>> Dumbass -
>
> >>> You said Outside had a "good reputation for hard nosed reporting".
>
> >>> Maybe so, but they don't shy away from printing stuff that's extremely
> >>> biased. I gave an obvious example.
>
> >>> thanks,
>
> >>> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> >> Obvious to your "mind," indeed.
> > How about your mind, Brian?
>
> > This latest "Defeat of Satan" rampage has been quite something.
>
> > Greg Lemond still fits the doper profile and always will, no matter
> > what happens with Lucif-- I mean, Lance.
>
> > Greg? Doper profile? I've been corrected in my old "couldn't ride in
> > June, won in July" perception.
> > The history apparently is, "couldn't ride in the first weeks of the
> > Giro, but did well in a TT" a little later.
> > Forgive me if I don't look up the exact sequence, but here we are
> > being told that iron *injections*, which some have said do not have
> > immediate strong effect on athletic performance, powered an even
> > quicker "cure" than had earlier been perceived by me and others. A
> > minor miracle of science?
>
> > "It was lead poisoning"? Back at that time, I had a real, practicing
> > MD tell me that pellets or bullets that are not actively causing harm
> > are commonly left in the body as there is no medical reason to dig in
> > there and get them out.
>
> > This Wiki article<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning>  says
> > little danger exists from bullets or lead fragments "unless in or near
> > fluid-filled or synovial areas".
> > Further, actual medical treatment by chelation goes well beyond an
> > iron "booster" shot:
> > (quoting):
> > A chelating agent is a molecule with at least two negatively charged
> > groups that allow it to form complexes with metal ions with multiple
> > positive charges, such as lead.[119] The chelate that is thus formed
> > is nontoxic[120] and can be excreted in the urine, initially at up to
> > 50 times the normal rate.[65] The chelating agents used for treatment
> > of lead poisoning are edetate disodium calcium (CaNa2EDTA),
> > dimercaprol (BAL), which are injected, and succimer and d-
> > penicillamine, which are administered orally.[121] Chelation therapy
> > is used in cases of acute lead poisoning,[18] severe poisoning, and
> > encephalopathy,[116] and is considered for people with blood lead
> > levels above 25 µg/dL.[23] While the use of chelation for people with
> > symptoms of lead poisoning is widely supported, use in asymptomatic
> > people with high blood lead levels is more controversial.[9] Chelation
> > therapy is of limited value for cases of chronic exposure to low
> > levels of lead. (end quote)
>
> > So, where's the proper doubt about Greg Lemond's story? Don't forget,
> > he knows there is very, very little chance he will be contradicted,
> > both due to the "omerta" he so roundly despises in public, and the
> > fact that there are no Greg Lemond B samples sitting in a freezer
> > somewhere to be test test tested.
> > Not to mention the fact that Greg himself might not know what was
> > really in his medications. Of course, he's still responsible, no
> > matter what...
> > --D-y
>
> Search back to 1994 or 1995 here on rbr when I noted that mitochondrial
> myopathy, which Lemond was diagnosed with and claimed was caused by the
> lead in his system, could not be caused lead poisoning.  I noted back
> then that this illness was genetic in etiology.  There was one other
> possibe etiology, according to standard internal medicine texts,to wit,
> steroid abuse.
>
> So contrary to your stupid assertions, I have always looked at cycling
> with a cynical eye regarding drugs and have never assumed that anyone
> was/is clean--not even Lemond.
>
> Time for you to crawl back under that rock. ROTFL!!

Wow, you could have fooled me IRT your Lemond hero worship, but thanks
for explaining yourself.
OK, Lemond is just a vector, one you hope will bring down LANCE (LANCE
LANCE LANCE).
And you agree, "they're all doping".
So, when do we stop making the athletes into scapegoats for a corrupt
system?

None of your personal insults change the fact that you have an
obsession with the destruction of Lance Armstrong.

Your post mentioning Kim Kirchen (giving LA a momentary break)? The
motivation is obvious.

How about the racing, Brian?
--D-y


== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 7:54 am
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 6/19/2010 10:27 AM, --D-y wrote:
> On Jun 18, 11:50 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On 6/18/2010 9:26 AM, --D-y wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 18, 5:38 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> On 6/18/2010 12:37 AM, Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. wrote:
>>
>>>>> On Jun 17, 3:21 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/17/2010 6:09 PM, Fred Gringioni wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:kfGdnZm5F7pIHIfRnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>> : On 6/17/2010 2:25 PM, Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. wrote:
>>>>>>> :> On Jun 17, 8:55 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> :>> On 6/17/2010 10:51 AM, Andy Coggan wrote:> On Jun 16, 7:30 pm,
>>>>>>> TheCoz<cycled...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> :>>>>
>>>>>>> http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/post/Lance-Armstrong-rips-magazine-for-...
>>>>>>> :>>>> What comes around, goes around. Maybe Outside Mag is jumping the gun.
>>>>>>> :>>>> Landis/Lemond underground printing press release?
>>>>>>> :>>>> Coz
>>>>>>> :>>
>>>>>>> :>>> Apparently the journalistic ethics of Outside Magazine are no higher
>>>>>>> :>>> than those of Perez Hilton:
>>>>>>> :>>
>>>>>>> :>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/showbiz/2010/06/16/behar.miley.photo...
>>>>>>> :>>
>>>>>>> :>>> Andy Coggan
>>>>>>> :>>
>>>>>>> :>> Outside Magazine has a pretty good reputation for hard-nosed reporting.
>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>> :> Dumbass -
>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>> :> The piece that Krakauer did for Outside on the 1996 Everest disaster
>>>>>>> :> was one of the biggest pieces of shit I've ever read. Soooooo biased
>>>>>>> :> and, IMO, wrong too. Krakauer blamed Fisher's company for everything,
>>>>>>> :> singling out Anatoli Boukreev and neglecting to place any blame on Rob
>>>>>>> :> Hall. Lame because Boukreev is the only one who saved anyone, Fisher's
>>>>>>> :> company didn't lose and clients and Hall's company lost a number of
>>>>>>> :> clients. From what I could tell, Krakauer pointed those fingers simply
>>>>>>> :> because he didn't like Boukreev.
>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>> :> I read both Krakauer and Boukreev's books. Krakauer's account doesn't
>>>>>>> :> add up when you look at who made it and who didn't.
>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>> :> thanks,
>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>> :> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>>>>>>> : I read them all as well. You're overstating again. SSDD.
>>
>>>>>>> Dumbass -
>>
>>>>>>> Not really.
>>
>>>>>>> He didn't lay any blame on Hall.
>>
>>>>>>> Fisher's company lost Fisher, but no clients. Hall's company lost several
>>>>>>> guides and several clients.
>>
>>>>>>> They both deserve blame. Krakauer let his personal bias vs. Boukreev affect
>>>>>>> his journalism.
>>
>>>>>>> thanks,
>>
>>>>>>> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>>
>>>>>> Wrong news group.
>>
>>>>> Dumbass -
>>
>>>>> You said Outside had a "good reputation for hard nosed reporting".
>>
>>>>> Maybe so, but they don't shy away from printing stuff that's extremely
>>>>> biased. I gave an obvious example.
>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>
>>>>> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>>
>>>> Obvious to your "mind," indeed.
>>> How about your mind, Brian?
>>
>>> This latest "Defeat of Satan" rampage has been quite something.
>>
>>> Greg Lemond still fits the doper profile and always will, no matter
>>> what happens with Lucif-- I mean, Lance.
>>
>>> Greg? Doper profile? I've been corrected in my old "couldn't ride in
>>> June, won in July" perception.
>>> The history apparently is, "couldn't ride in the first weeks of the
>>> Giro, but did well in a TT" a little later.
>>> Forgive me if I don't look up the exact sequence, but here we are
>>> being told that iron *injections*, which some have said do not have
>>> immediate strong effect on athletic performance, powered an even
>>> quicker "cure" than had earlier been perceived by me and others. A
>>> minor miracle of science?
>>
>>> "It was lead poisoning"? Back at that time, I had a real, practicing
>>> MD tell me that pellets or bullets that are not actively causing harm
>>> are commonly left in the body as there is no medical reason to dig in
>>> there and get them out.
>>
>>> This Wiki article<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning> says
>>> little danger exists from bullets or lead fragments "unless in or near
>>> fluid-filled or synovial areas".
>>> Further, actual medical treatment by chelation goes well beyond an
>>> iron "booster" shot:
>>> (quoting):
>>> A chelating agent is a molecule with at least two negatively charged
>>> groups that allow it to form complexes with metal ions with multiple
>>> positive charges, such as lead.[119] The chelate that is thus formed
>>> is nontoxic[120] and can be excreted in the urine, initially at up to
>>> 50 times the normal rate.[65] The chelating agents used for treatment
>>> of lead poisoning are edetate disodium calcium (CaNa2EDTA),
>>> dimercaprol (BAL), which are injected, and succimer and d-
>>> penicillamine, which are administered orally.[121] Chelation therapy
>>> is used in cases of acute lead poisoning,[18] severe poisoning, and
>>> encephalopathy,[116] and is considered for people with blood lead
>>> levels above 25 �g/dL.[23] While the use of chelation for people with
>>> symptoms of lead poisoning is widely supported, use in asymptomatic
>>> people with high blood lead levels is more controversial.[9] Chelation
>>> therapy is of limited value for cases of chronic exposure to low
>>> levels of lead. (end quote)
>>
>>> So, where's the proper doubt about Greg Lemond's story? Don't forget,
>>> he knows there is very, very little chance he will be contradicted,
>>> both due to the "omerta" he so roundly despises in public, and the
>>> fact that there are no Greg Lemond B samples sitting in a freezer
>>> somewhere to be test test tested.
>>> Not to mention the fact that Greg himself might not know what was
>>> really in his medications. Of course, he's still responsible, no
>>> matter what...
>>> --D-y
>>
>> Search back to 1994 or 1995 here on rbr when I noted that mitochondrial
>> myopathy, which Lemond was diagnosed with and claimed was caused by the
>> lead in his system, could not be caused lead poisoning. I noted back
>> then that this illness was genetic in etiology. There was one other
>> possibe etiology, according to standard internal medicine texts,to wit,
>> steroid abuse.
>>
>> So contrary to your stupid assertions, I have always looked at cycling
>> with a cynical eye regarding drugs and have never assumed that anyone
>> was/is clean--not even Lemond.
>>
>> Time for you to crawl back under that rock. ROTFL!!
>
> Wow, you could have fooled me IRT your Lemond hero worship, but thanks
> for explaining yourself.
> OK, Lemond is just a vector, one you hope will bring down LANCE (LANCE
> LANCE LANCE).
> And you agree, "they're all doping".
> So, when do we stop making the athletes into scapegoats for a corrupt
> system?

I don't consider them scapegoats. They are just a part of the problem.
I also consider guys like McQuaid and Verbruggen just as complicit in
the entire system of doping. This is why I, and a few others, several
years ago called for a suspension of the sport for a year. Put them all
out of work for a year, maybe two, and let them come to grips with the
systemic nature of the problem and what their actions have cost them, to
wit, their livelihood.

I would also impose draconian sanctions on the teams once the
professional sport resumes. Any team with a rider coming up with a
positive control after testing the B sample is immediately suspended for
a month or two. Not pending appeals to CAS.
>
> None of your personal insults change the fact that you have an
> obsession with the destruction of Lance Armstrong.

IMO, Lance Armstrong is one of the worst hypocrites living. He has
deluded a generation of cancer victims and survivors. When it becomes
crystal clear what he and his teams have been up to, whether or not he's
indicted, I hope that he faces them and tries to explain his actions.
>
> Your post mentioning Kim Kirchen (giving LA a momentary break)? The
> motivation is obvious.

Heart attacks, deep vein thrombosis, jaws needing to be surgically
reduced, podiatry issues.........they're all indicators of a problem.
I'm sure Kim was the only clean rider on Fasa Bortolo, T-Mobile and
Milram. And his current Russian team is undoubtedly as clean as the
Siberian snow.

>
> How about the racing, Brian?

What racing? Oh, you mean the freak show. George Hincapie the Pyrenees
climber. Indurain the climber. There is no racing these days. What you
have are public preparation trials. May the best prepared team win. Take
a look at the recent years here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

It's no longer sport, my friend.
> --D-y

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 10:29 am
From: --D-y


On Jun 19, 9:54 am, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:

> I don't consider them scapegoats.  They are just a part of the problem.
> I also consider guys like McQuaid and Verbruggen just as complicit in
> the entire system of doping.  This is why I, and a few others, several
> years ago called for a suspension of the sport for a year.  Put them all
> out of work for a year, maybe two, and let them come to grips with the
> systemic nature of the problem and what their actions have cost them, to
> wit, their livelihood.

I like the NASCAR method a whole lot better. Note, some of their
sanctions were upscaled pretty severely, notably IRT the Car of
Tomorrow, which was intended to be a step forward in safety and
provide a level playing field IRT aerodynamics (big teams, mega time
in expensive wind tunnels, big aero advantage). But no lifetime
suspensions were handed out to the best of my limited knowledge.
>
> I would also impose draconian sanctions on the teams once the
> professional sport resumes.  Any team with a rider coming up with a
> positive control after testing the B sample is immediately suspended for
> a month or two. Not pending appeals to CAS.
>
>
>
> > None of your personal insults change the fact that you have an
> > obsession with the destruction of Lance Armstrong.
>
> IMO, Lance Armstrong is one of the worst hypocrites living. He has
> deluded a generation of cancer victims and survivors.  When it becomes
> crystal clear what he and his teams have been up to, whether or not he's
> indicted, I hope that he faces them and tries to explain his actions.
>
>
>
> > Your post mentioning Kim Kirchen (giving LA a momentary break)? The
> > motivation is obvious.
>
> Heart attacks, deep vein thrombosis, jaws needing to be surgically
> reduced, podiatry issues.........they're all indicators of a problem.
> I'm sure Kim was the only clean rider on Fasa Bortolo, T-Mobile and
> Milram.  And his current Russian team is undoubtedly as clean as the
> Siberian snow.
>
>
>
> > How about the racing, Brian?
>
> What racing? Oh, you mean the freak show.  George Hincapie the Pyrenees
> climber. Indurain the climber.  There is no racing these days. What you
> have are public preparation trials. May the best prepared team win. Take
> a look at the recent years herehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling
>
> It's no longer sport, my friend.

Brian. We only have "better drugs" now. It never, ever has been
"sport". One reason why I don't agree with draconian sanctions;
another is, like the death penalty, the deterrence factor is arguable.
There is no rosy past to return to in the first place; in fact, maybe
(<g>)we're better off without riders resorting to strychnine, ether,
alcohol, etc.

IRT "public preparation trials", I'll go along with you (maybe a whole
mile, here <g>) in that I'd like to see TTTWTNBTT (the truth, whole
truth, etc.) brought to light in order to protect riders' health,
partly, and also to openly examine substance administration protocols
in service of Better Living Through Chemistry (Intended Irony Meter
Reading is 0.0000 on that last one).

For instance, if HGH is dangerous (and we have indication that it
might be), is there a safe dosage that still promotes improved
physical performance, or even "frame of mind"? Or is it something that
should really should be banned when sole intended use is improvement
in athletic competition because there is no useful positive tradeoff
(below a demonstrable "danger threshold")?

IMHO, Lance Armstrong might turn out to be a "glass half full". If
he's The Best Doper, well, he did recover from a serious bout with
cancer and go on to win seven TdF's in a row, and he did inspire many,
many people with cancer (and those around him) to marshall their
forces and fight the good fight-- both with his athletic exploits and
his personal appearances including "cause rides". I'm told his
schedule is always full, every day, and that time/effort is not all
dedicated to fucking everything on two wheels, so to speak.
And the LAF has raised a lot of money and by all accounts (whoops)
spent it well, doing what they advertise they do, which includes
personalized help for cancer sufferers.

I don't like the fact that doping exists. I wish we had "perfect
tests"; we don't and probably never will, either. No, I didn't much
like it when (in days of old, and/or less old) I went to States or
even just OOT races and normal-looking (ahem) human beings rode away
from me like I was a total slug. What can I say, cheaters can win, at
least for a while, and there are choices in life.
BTW: I still have some medals, too <g>. Jingle, jingle, "non-virtual",
and there are other Violet Crown medals because I "made it happen".

OK, apparently thanks to a few recent daily doses of Celebrex that I
do not have a prescription for, my lower back seems to be on the mend
at long last. I'm gonna walk the dogs and then put my doper butt on a
bike saddle for the first time in about three weeks and see what
happens.
Wish me luck, would you? Thanks!
--D-y


== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 12:40 pm
From: "z, fred"


B. Lafferty wrote:
> On 6/19/2010 10:27 AM, --D-y wrote:
>> On Jun 18, 11:50 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> On 6/18/2010 9:26 AM, --D-y wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jun 18, 5:38 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 6/18/2010 12:37 AM, Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 17, 3:21 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/17/2010 6:09 PM, Fred Gringioni wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>> "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:kfGdnZm5F7pIHIfRnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>> : On 6/17/2010 2:25 PM, Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. wrote:
>>>>>>>> :> On Jun 17, 8:55 am, "B.
>>>>>>>> Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> :>> On 6/17/2010 10:51 AM, Andy Coggan wrote:> On
>>>>>>>> Jun 16, 7:30 pm,
>>>>>>>> TheCoz<cycled...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> :>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/post/Lance-Armstrong-rips-magazine-for-...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> :>>>> What comes around, goes around. Maybe Outside Mag
>>>>>>>> is jumping the gun.
>>>>>>>> :>>>> Landis/Lemond underground printing press release?
>>>>>>>> :>>>> Coz
>>>>>>>> :>>
>>>>>>>> :>>> Apparently the journalistic ethics of Outside
>>>>>>>> Magazine are no higher
>>>>>>>> :>>> than those of Perez Hilton:
>>>>>>>> :>>
>>>>>>>> :>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/showbiz/2010/06/16/behar.miley.photo...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> :>>
>>>>>>>> :>>> Andy Coggan
>>>>>>>> :>>
>>>>>>>> :>> Outside Magazine has a pretty good reputation for
>>>>>>>> hard-nosed reporting.
>>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>>> :> Dumbass -
>>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>>> :> The piece that Krakauer did for Outside on the 1996
>>>>>>>> Everest disaster
>>>>>>>> :> was one of the biggest pieces of shit I've ever read.
>>>>>>>> Soooooo biased
>>>>>>>> :> and, IMO, wrong too. Krakauer blamed Fisher's company
>>>>>>>> for everything,
>>>>>>>> :> singling out Anatoli Boukreev and neglecting to place
>>>>>>>> any blame on Rob
>>>>>>>> :> Hall. Lame because Boukreev is the only one who saved
>>>>>>>> anyone, Fisher's
>>>>>>>> :> company didn't lose and clients and Hall's company
>>>>>>>> lost a number of
>>>>>>>> :> clients. From what I could tell, Krakauer pointed
>>>>>>>> those fingers simply
>>>>>>>> :> because he didn't like Boukreev.
>>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>>> :> I read both Krakauer and Boukreev's books. Krakauer's
>>>>>>>> account doesn't
>>>>>>>> :> add up when you look at who made it and who didn't.
>>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>>> :> thanks,
>>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>>> :> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>>>>>>>> : I read them all as well. You're overstating again. SSDD.
>>>
>>>>>>>> Dumbass -
>>>
>>>>>>>> Not really.
>>>
>>>>>>>> He didn't lay any blame on Hall.
>>>
>>>>>>>> Fisher's company lost Fisher, but no clients. Hall's company
>>>>>>>> lost several
>>>>>>>> guides and several clients.
>>>
>>>>>>>> They both deserve blame. Krakauer let his personal bias vs.
>>>>>>>> Boukreev affect
>>>>>>>> his journalism.
>>>
>>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>
>>>>>>>> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>>>
>>>>>>> Wrong news group.
>>>
>>>>>> Dumbass -
>>>
>>>>>> You said Outside had a "good reputation for hard nosed reporting".
>>>
>>>>>> Maybe so, but they don't shy away from printing stuff that's
>>>>>> extremely
>>>>>> biased. I gave an obvious example.
>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>
>>>>>> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>>>
>>>>> Obvious to your "mind," indeed.
>>>> How about your mind, Brian?
>>>
>>>> This latest "Defeat of Satan" rampage has been quite something.
>>>
>>>> Greg Lemond still fits the doper profile and always will, no matter
>>>> what happens with Lucif-- I mean, Lance.
>>>
>>>> Greg? Doper profile? I've been corrected in my old "couldn't ride in
>>>> June, won in July" perception.
>>>> The history apparently is, "couldn't ride in the first weeks of the
>>>> Giro, but did well in a TT" a little later.
>>>> Forgive me if I don't look up the exact sequence, but here we are
>>>> being told that iron *injections*, which some have said do not have
>>>> immediate strong effect on athletic performance, powered an even
>>>> quicker "cure" than had earlier been perceived by me and others. A
>>>> minor miracle of science?
>>>
>>>> "It was lead poisoning"? Back at that time, I had a real, practicing
>>>> MD tell me that pellets or bullets that are not actively causing harm
>>>> are commonly left in the body as there is no medical reason to dig in
>>>> there and get them out.
>>>
>>>> This Wiki article<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning> says
>>>> little danger exists from bullets or lead fragments "unless in or near
>>>> fluid-filled or synovial areas".
>>>> Further, actual medical treatment by chelation goes well beyond an
>>>> iron "booster" shot:
>>>> (quoting):
>>>> A chelating agent is a molecule with at least two negatively charged
>>>> groups that allow it to form complexes with metal ions with multiple
>>>> positive charges, such as lead.[119] The chelate that is thus formed
>>>> is nontoxic[120] and can be excreted in the urine, initially at up to
>>>> 50 times the normal rate.[65] The chelating agents used for treatment
>>>> of lead poisoning are edetate disodium calcium (CaNa2EDTA),
>>>> dimercaprol (BAL), which are injected, and succimer and d-
>>>> penicillamine, which are administered orally.[121] Chelation therapy
>>>> is used in cases of acute lead poisoning,[18] severe poisoning, and
>>>> encephalopathy,[116] and is considered for people with blood lead
>>>> levels above 25 µg/dL.[23] While the use of chelation for people with
>>>> symptoms of lead poisoning is widely supported, use in asymptomatic
>>>> people with high blood lead levels is more controversial.[9] Chelation
>>>> therapy is of limited value for cases of chronic exposure to low
>>>> levels of lead. (end quote)
>>>
>>>> So, where's the proper doubt about Greg Lemond's story? Don't forget,
>>>> he knows there is very, very little chance he will be contradicted,
>>>> both due to the "omerta" he so roundly despises in public, and the
>>>> fact that there are no Greg Lemond B samples sitting in a freezer
>>>> somewhere to be test test tested.
>>>> Not to mention the fact that Greg himself might not know what was
>>>> really in his medications. Of course, he's still responsible, no
>>>> matter what...
>>>> --D-y
>>>
>>> Search back to 1994 or 1995 here on rbr when I noted that mitochondrial
>>> myopathy, which Lemond was diagnosed with and claimed was caused by the
>>> lead in his system, could not be caused lead poisoning. I noted back
>>> then that this illness was genetic in etiology. There was one other
>>> possibe etiology, according to standard internal medicine texts,to wit,
>>> steroid abuse.
>>>
>>> So contrary to your stupid assertions, I have always looked at cycling
>>> with a cynical eye regarding drugs and have never assumed that anyone
>>> was/is clean--not even Lemond.
>>>
>>> Time for you to crawl back under that rock. ROTFL!!
>>
>> Wow, you could have fooled me IRT your Lemond hero worship, but thanks
>> for explaining yourself.
>> OK, Lemond is just a vector, one you hope will bring down LANCE (LANCE
>> LANCE LANCE).
>> And you agree, "they're all doping".
>> So, when do we stop making the athletes into scapegoats for a corrupt
>> system?
>
> I don't consider them scapegoats. They are just a part of the problem.
> I also consider guys like McQuaid and Verbruggen just as complicit in
> the entire system of doping. This is why I, and a few others, several
> years ago called for a suspension of the sport for a year. Put them all
> out of work for a year, maybe two, and let them come to grips with the
> systemic nature of the problem and what their actions have cost them, to
> wit, their livelihood.
>
> I would also impose draconian sanctions on the teams once the
> professional sport resumes. Any team with a rider coming up with a
> positive control after testing the B sample is immediately suspended for
> a month or two. Not pending appeals to CAS.
>>
>> None of your personal insults change the fact that you have an
>> obsession with the destruction of Lance Armstrong.
>
> IMO, Lance Armstrong is one of the worst hypocrites living. He has
> deluded a generation of cancer victims and survivors. When it becomes
> crystal clear what he and his teams have been up to, whether or not he's
> indicted, I hope that he faces them and tries to explain his actions.
>>
>> Your post mentioning Kim Kirchen (giving LA a momentary break)? The
>> motivation is obvious.
>
> Heart attacks, deep vein thrombosis, jaws needing to be surgically
> reduced, podiatry issues.........they're all indicators of a problem.
> I'm sure Kim was the only clean rider on Fasa Bortolo, T-Mobile and
> Milram. And his current Russian team is undoubtedly as clean as the
> Siberian snow.

Uh, you do know that Hampsten had his jaw reworked, don't you?

>
>>
>> How about the racing, Brian?
>
> What racing? Oh, you mean the freak show. George Hincapie the Pyrenees
> climber. Indurain the climber. There is no racing these days. What you
> have are public preparation trials. May the best prepared team win. Take
> a look at the recent years here
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling
>
> It's no longer sport, my friend.
>> --D-y
>


== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 1:33 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 6/19/2010 3:40 PM, z, fred wrote:
> B. Lafferty wrote:
>> On 6/19/2010 10:27 AM, --D-y wrote:
>>> On Jun 18, 11:50 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> On 6/18/2010 9:26 AM, --D-y wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 18, 5:38 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/18/2010 12:37 AM, Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 17, 3:21 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/17/2010 6:09 PM, Fred Gringioni wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:kfGdnZm5F7pIHIfRnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>> : On 6/17/2010 2:25 PM, Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> :> On Jun 17, 8:55 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> :>> On 6/17/2010 10:51 AM, Andy Coggan wrote:> On Jun 16, 7:30 pm,
>>>>>>>>> TheCoz<cycled...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> :>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/post/Lance-Armstrong-rips-magazine-for-...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> :>>>> What comes around, goes around. Maybe Outside Mag is
>>>>>>>>> jumping the gun.
>>>>>>>>> :>>>> Landis/Lemond underground printing press release?
>>>>>>>>> :>>>> Coz
>>>>>>>>> :>>
>>>>>>>>> :>>> Apparently the journalistic ethics of Outside Magazine are
>>>>>>>>> no higher
>>>>>>>>> :>>> than those of Perez Hilton:
>>>>>>>>> :>>
>>>>>>>>> :>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/showbiz/2010/06/16/behar.miley.photo...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> :>>
>>>>>>>>> :>>> Andy Coggan
>>>>>>>>> :>>
>>>>>>>>> :>> Outside Magazine has a pretty good reputation for
>>>>>>>>> hard-nosed reporting.
>>>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>>>> :> Dumbass -
>>>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>>>> :> The piece that Krakauer did for Outside on the 1996 Everest
>>>>>>>>> disaster
>>>>>>>>> :> was one of the biggest pieces of shit I've ever read.
>>>>>>>>> Soooooo biased
>>>>>>>>> :> and, IMO, wrong too. Krakauer blamed Fisher's company for
>>>>>>>>> everything,
>>>>>>>>> :> singling out Anatoli Boukreev and neglecting to place any
>>>>>>>>> blame on Rob
>>>>>>>>> :> Hall. Lame because Boukreev is the only one who saved
>>>>>>>>> anyone, Fisher's
>>>>>>>>> :> company didn't lose and clients and Hall's company lost a
>>>>>>>>> number of
>>>>>>>>> :> clients. From what I could tell, Krakauer pointed those
>>>>>>>>> fingers simply
>>>>>>>>> :> because he didn't like Boukreev.
>>>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>>>> :> I read both Krakauer and Boukreev's books. Krakauer's
>>>>>>>>> account doesn't
>>>>>>>>> :> add up when you look at who made it and who didn't.
>>>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>>>> :> thanks,
>>>>>>>>> :>
>>>>>>>>> :> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>>>>>>>>> : I read them all as well. You're overstating again. SSDD.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dumbass -
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not really.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He didn't lay any blame on Hall.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Fisher's company lost Fisher, but no clients. Hall's company
>>>>>>>>> lost several
>>>>>>>>> guides and several clients.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They both deserve blame. Krakauer let his personal bias vs.
>>>>>>>>> Boukreev affect
>>>>>>>>> his journalism.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wrong news group.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Dumbass -
>>>>
>>>>>>> You said Outside had a "good reputation for hard nosed reporting".
>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe so, but they don't shy away from printing stuff that's
>>>>>>> extremely
>>>>>>> biased. I gave an obvious example.
>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>
>>>>>>> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>>>>
>>>>>> Obvious to your "mind," indeed.
>>>>> How about your mind, Brian?
>>>>
>>>>> This latest "Defeat of Satan" rampage has been quite something.
>>>>
>>>>> Greg Lemond still fits the doper profile and always will, no matter
>>>>> what happens with Lucif-- I mean, Lance.
>>>>
>>>>> Greg? Doper profile? I've been corrected in my old "couldn't ride in
>>>>> June, won in July" perception.
>>>>> The history apparently is, "couldn't ride in the first weeks of the
>>>>> Giro, but did well in a TT" a little later.
>>>>> Forgive me if I don't look up the exact sequence, but here we are
>>>>> being told that iron *injections*, which some have said do not have
>>>>> immediate strong effect on athletic performance, powered an even
>>>>> quicker "cure" than had earlier been perceived by me and others. A
>>>>> minor miracle of science?
>>>>
>>>>> "It was lead poisoning"? Back at that time, I had a real, practicing
>>>>> MD tell me that pellets or bullets that are not actively causing harm
>>>>> are commonly left in the body as there is no medical reason to dig in
>>>>> there and get them out.
>>>>
>>>>> This Wiki article<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning> says
>>>>> little danger exists from bullets or lead fragments "unless in or near
>>>>> fluid-filled or synovial areas".
>>>>> Further, actual medical treatment by chelation goes well beyond an
>>>>> iron "booster" shot:
>>>>> (quoting):
>>>>> A chelating agent is a molecule with at least two negatively charged
>>>>> groups that allow it to form complexes with metal ions with multiple
>>>>> positive charges, such as lead.[119] The chelate that is thus formed
>>>>> is nontoxic[120] and can be excreted in the urine, initially at up to
>>>>> 50 times the normal rate.[65] The chelating agents used for treatment
>>>>> of lead poisoning are edetate disodium calcium (CaNa2EDTA),
>>>>> dimercaprol (BAL), which are injected, and succimer and d-
>>>>> penicillamine, which are administered orally.[121] Chelation therapy
>>>>> is used in cases of acute lead poisoning,[18] severe poisoning, and
>>>>> encephalopathy,[116] and is considered for people with blood lead
>>>>> levels above 25 �g/dL.[23] While the use of chelation for people with
>>>>> symptoms of lead poisoning is widely supported, use in asymptomatic
>>>>> people with high blood lead levels is more controversial.[9] Chelation
>>>>> therapy is of limited value for cases of chronic exposure to low
>>>>> levels of lead. (end quote)
>>>>
>>>>> So, where's the proper doubt about Greg Lemond's story? Don't forget,
>>>>> he knows there is very, very little chance he will be contradicted,
>>>>> both due to the "omerta" he so roundly despises in public, and the
>>>>> fact that there are no Greg Lemond B samples sitting in a freezer
>>>>> somewhere to be test test tested.
>>>>> Not to mention the fact that Greg himself might not know what was
>>>>> really in his medications. Of course, he's still responsible, no
>>>>> matter what...
>>>>> --D-y
>>>>
>>>> Search back to 1994 or 1995 here on rbr when I noted that mitochondrial
>>>> myopathy, which Lemond was diagnosed with and claimed was caused by the
>>>> lead in his system, could not be caused lead poisoning. I noted back
>>>> then that this illness was genetic in etiology. There was one other
>>>> possibe etiology, according to standard internal medicine texts,to wit,
>>>> steroid abuse.
>>>>
>>>> So contrary to your stupid assertions, I have always looked at cycling
>>>> with a cynical eye regarding drugs and have never assumed that anyone
>>>> was/is clean--not even Lemond.
>>>>
>>>> Time for you to crawl back under that rock. ROTFL!!
>>>
>>> Wow, you could have fooled me IRT your Lemond hero worship, but thanks
>>> for explaining yourself.
>>> OK, Lemond is just a vector, one you hope will bring down LANCE (LANCE
>>> LANCE LANCE).
>>> And you agree, "they're all doping".
>>> So, when do we stop making the athletes into scapegoats for a corrupt
>>> system?
>>
>> I don't consider them scapegoats. They are just a part of the problem.
>> I also consider guys like McQuaid and Verbruggen just as complicit in
>> the entire system of doping. This is why I, and a few others, several
>> years ago called for a suspension of the sport for a year. Put them
>> all out of work for a year, maybe two, and let them come to grips with
>> the systemic nature of the problem and what their actions have cost
>> them, to wit, their livelihood.
>>
>> I would also impose draconian sanctions on the teams once the
>> professional sport resumes. Any team with a rider coming up with a
>> positive control after testing the B sample is immediately suspended
>> for a month or two. Not pending appeals to CAS.
>>>
>>> None of your personal insults change the fact that you have an
>>> obsession with the destruction of Lance Armstrong.
>>
>> IMO, Lance Armstrong is one of the worst hypocrites living. He has
>> deluded a generation of cancer victims and survivors. When it becomes
>> crystal clear what he and his teams have been up to, whether or not
>> he's indicted, I hope that he faces them and tries to explain his
>> actions.
>>>
>>> Your post mentioning Kim Kirchen (giving LA a momentary break)? The
>>> motivation is obvious.
>>
>> Heart attacks, deep vein thrombosis, jaws needing to be surgically
>> reduced, podiatry issues.........they're all indicators of a problem.
>> I'm sure Kim was the only clean rider on Fasa Bortolo, T-Mobile and
>> Milram. And his current Russian team is undoubtedly as clean as the
>> Siberian snow.
>
> Uh, you do know that Hampsten had his jaw reworked, don't you?

Uh, you know Hampsten had dental/jaw problems from childhood, don't you?

>
>>
>>>
>>> How about the racing, Brian?
>>
>> What racing? Oh, you mean the freak show. George Hincapie the Pyrenees
>> climber. Indurain the climber. There is no racing these days. What you
>> have are public preparation trials. May the best prepared team win.
>> Take a look at the recent years here
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling
>>
>> It's no longer sport, my friend.
>>> --D-y
>>


==============================================================================
TOPIC: See Hot Sexy Star Aishwarya Rai Videos In All Angles.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/9b666ce388ad2572?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 10:09 am
From: KAJOL


See Hot Sexy Star Aishwarya Rai Videos In All Angles.
at http://mastidunia.co.cc

Due to high sex content,i have hidden the videos in an image. in that
website on left side below search box click on image and watch
videos in all angles.please dont tell to anyone.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tour de France bikes to be scanned for motors - UCI
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/6a46e167686b1582?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 1:36 pm
From: Cicero Venatio


The tdf knows the cheating scum they are dealing with, so now they are
going to scan all the bikes for motors at the start and finish.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tour De Slovénie
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/b97d8c6a290329bb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 2:17 pm
From: Joe Big


Check out the 8th place person in the GC for the Tour of Slovenia. Is
that guy using a motor?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tour de Suisse, stage 8 summary
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f8b7e42756f5414a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 2:22 pm
From: Bob Martin



Stage 8 : Jun 19, Wetzikon - Liestal, 172.4 km

1 Rui Alberto Faria Da Costa (Por) Caisse d'Epargne 4.10.32
2 Jose Joaquin Rojas Gil (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 0.15
3 Maxime Monfort (Bel) Team HTC - Columbia 0.19
4 Sandy Casar (Fra) Francaise Des Jeux 0.34
5 Alessandro Vanotti (Ita) Liquigas-Doimo
6 Lars Petter Nordhaug (Nor) Sky Professional Cycling Team
7 Tom Danielson (USA) Garmin - Transitions 0.39
8 Daniele Pietropolli (Ita) Lampre-Farnese Vini 1.14
9 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Cervelo Test Team 1.16
10 Robert Gesink (Ned) Rabobank


Changes in GC, stage 8 compared to stage 7 :

Biggest gainers by position :
+31 Thor Hushovd
+26 Allan Davis
+26 Alessandro Petacchi
+25 Christian Vandevelde
+25 Bjorn Schroder
+23 Matti Breschel
+21 Martijn Maaskant
+20 Marzio Bruseghin
+19 Jason Mccartney
+17 Rinaldo Nocentini

Biggest losers by position :
-15 Jeremy Roy
-14 Dries Devenyns
-10 Diego Ulissi
-8 Juan Antonio Flecha
-8 Juan Manuel Garate
-7 Francesco Gavazzi
-7 Xavier Florencio
-6 David Zabriskie
-6 Grischa Niermann
-6 Olivier Kaisen
-5 Gian-Paolo Cheula

Biggest gainers by time :
+1:29 Rui Albert Faria Da Costa
+1:11 Jose Joaquin Rojas Gil
+1:04 Maxime Monfort
+0:44 Lars Petter Nordhaug
+0:42 Sandy Casar
+0:42 Alessandro Vanotti
+0:37 Tom Danielson
+0:02 Daniele Pietropolli

Biggest losers by time :
-15:32 Aitor Hernandez
-15:32 Aliaksandr Kuschynski
-15:32 Andreas Klier
-15:32 Artur Gajek
-15:32 Assan Bazayev
-15:32 Bernhard Eisel
-15:32 Brett Lancaster
-15:32 Daniel Oss
-15:32 Diego Ulissi
-15:32 Dimitri Muravyev
-15:32 Dries Devenyns

Favourites by position :
+26 Allan Davis
+25 Christian Vandevelde
+20 Marzio Bruseghin
+13 Jens Voigt
+3 Fabian Cancellara

Favourites by time :
-1:11 Christian Vandevelde
-1:11 Allan Davis
-7:59 Marzio Bruseghin
-7:59 Fabian Cancellara

Top 3 and favourites GC standings (previous stage in parens) :
1 Robert Gesink 34:27:47 (unchanged)
2 Rigoberto Uran 0:29 (unchanged)
3 Steve Morabito 0:36 (unchanged)
4 Frank Schleck 0:38 (unchanged)
.....
7 Lance Armstrong 0:55 (unchanged)
.....
11 Andy Schleck 1:40 (unchanged)
12 Andreas Kloden 1:48 (unchanged)
13 Levi Leipheimer 2:18 (unchanged)
14 Tony Martin 2:19 (unchanged)
15 Roman Kreuziger 2:24 (unchanged)
.....
52 Jens Voigt 27:22 (was 65th at 27:22)
.....
61 Fabian Cancellara 34:29 (was 64th at 26:30)
.....
72 Christian Vandevelde 47:52 (was 97th at 46:41)
.....
95 Allan Davis 1:03:38 (was 121st at 1:02:27)
.....
113 Marzio Bruseghin 1:16:24 (was 133rd at 1:08:25)

Top 10 on Points table with previous in parens:
1 Marcus Burghardt 50 (unchanged)
2 Jose Joaquin Rojas Gil 50 (was 4th with 30 points)
3 Marco Marcato 43 (was 2nd with 43 points)
4 Oscar Freire Gomez 33 (was 3rd with 33 points)
5 Matti Breschel 28 (unchanged)
6 Robert Gesink 27 (was 9th with 21 points)
7 Rui Alberto Faria Da Costa 25 (was 0 points)
8 Fabian Cancellara 24 (was 6th with 24 points)
9 Rigoberto Uran 24 (was 7th with 24 points)
10 Robbie Mcewen 24 (was 8th with 24 points)

Top 10 on Mountains table with previous in parens:
1 Mathias Frank 49 (unchanged)
2 Wouter Poels 40 (unchanged)
3 Robert Gesink 21 (unchanged)
4 Aitor Hernandez Gutierrez 19 (unchanged)
5 Marcus Burghardt 18 (was 7th with 18 points)
6 Matteo Carrara 15 (was 8th with 15 points)
7 Daniel Oss 13 (was 9th with 13 points)
8 Maxime Monfort 11 (was 0 points)
9 Roman Kreuziger 10 (was 10th with 10 points)
10 Amets Txurruka 10 (was 11th with 10 points)

Retirements to date : Stage
Alexandre Moos (Swi) BMC Racing Team 8 <<<
Alexandre Pliuschin (MOL) Team Katusha 8 <<<
Angelo Furlan (Ita) Lampre-Farnese Vini 8 <<<
Brice Feillu (Fra) Vacansoleil Pro Cycling Team 8 <<<
Daniel Sesma (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 8 <<<
Gerald Ciolek (Ger) Team Milram 8 <<<
Hayden Roulston (NZl) Team HTC - Columbia 8 <<<
Kim Kirchen (Lux) Team Katusha 8 <<<
Kurt Asle Arvesen (Nor) Sky Professional Cycling Team 8 <<<
Maxim Iglinskiy (Kaz) Astana 8 <<<
Mikhaylo Khalilov (Ukr) Team Katusha 8 <<<
Peter Wrolich (Aut) Team Milram 8 <<<
Philip Deignan (Irl) Cervelo Test Team 8 <<<
Simon Gerrans (Aus) Sky Professional Cycling Team 8 <<<
Simon Spilak (Slo) Lampre-Farnese Vini 8 <<<
Yauheni Hutarovich (Blr) Francaise Des Jeux 8 <<<
Leif Hoste (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto 7
Matteo Bono (Ita) Lampre-Farnese Vini 7
Pavel Brutt (Rus) Team Katusha 7
Philippe Gilbert (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto 7
Valeriy Dmitriyev (Kaz) Astana 7
Jussi Veikkanen (Fin) Francaise Des Jeux 6
Koldo Fernandez (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 6
Mark Cavendish (GBr) Team HTC - Columbia 6
Olivier Bonnaire (Fra) Francaise Des Jeux 6
Wilfried Cretskens (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto 6
Arnaud Coyot (Fra) Caisse d'Epargne 5
Cameron Meyer (Aus) Garmin - Transitions 5
Gerben Lowik (Ned) Omega Pharma-Lotto 5
Heinrich Haussler (Ger) Cervelo Test Team 5
Jose-Luis Arrieta (Spa) AG2R La Mondiale 5
Loyd Mondory (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 5
Ludovic Turpin (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 5
Sebastien Hinault (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 5
Michael Rogers (Aus) Team HTC - Columbia 4
David Vitoria (Swi) Footon-Servetto 3
Dominique Nerz (Ger) Team Milram 3
Fabio Felline (Ita) Footon-Servetto 3
Joao Correia (Por) Cervelo Test Team 3
Joost Van Leijen (Ned) Vacansoleil Pro Cycling Team 3
Pedro Merino Criado (Spa) Footon-Servetto 3
Peter Sagan (Svk) Liquigas-Doimo 3
Valerio Agnoli (Ita) Liquigas-Doimo 3
Laurens Ten Dam (Ned) Rabobank 2
Total retirements : 44


(This report can also be seen at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rvmartin2)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Liz Hatch is training in a studio!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/9ee62542783a9222?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 2:22 pm
From: Joe Big


https://twitter.com/Liz_Hatch/status/16564410625

==============================================================================

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gsk

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