Thursday, July 1, 2010

[socialactionfoundationforequity:3101 Re: NABARD to promote organic farming in Kerala

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Dear All,

It is a wecome move by NABARD.

Kerala is very reluctant to move towards organic way of farming
eventhough many activists groups were promoting different varieties of
organic agriculture in the state not only thorugh advocacy but also by
giving practical training as well. Switching over to organic
agriculture can save the people from the perils of chemicals to some
extent.

Organic agriculture is the ideal form for Kerala as it requires less
inputs, reduces chemical use and minimises labour along with. As
Masanoba Fukuoka in his famous book One Straw Revolution pointed out,
organic agricuture can be modified into a do-nothing farming in course
of time. Organic agricutural produces will indirectly help in better
health of the people. Its benefits are myriad.


Regards,

K Rajasekharan


On Jul 1, 9:25 pm, "BUTTERFLY: Nature Club of India"
<bnci.panchk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> NABARD to promote organic farming in Keralahttp://igovernment.in/site/nabard-promote-organic-farming-kerala-37903
>
> The project will be implemented in seven districts initially in
> association with the Kerala Social Services Forum
> Published on 07/01/2010
>
> Thiruvananthapuram: The National Bank for Agriculture and Rural
> Development (NABARD) will promote organic farming in Kerala.
>
> According to NABARD Chief General Manager K C Shashidhar, the
> initiative will be implemented in association with banks and non-
> governmental organisations who will introduce over 10,000 farmers to
> organic farming in the first phase.
>
> "Organic farming practices need to be encouraged using local knowledge
> of farmers and also they need to be integrated with the tested
> practices of research scientists and academia. To accomplish this, we
> will associate with Kerala Agricultural University," Shashidhar said.
>
> The project will be implemented in seven districts initially in
> association with the Kerala Social Services Forum, an umbrella
> organisation of NGOs.
>
> As a prelude to its formal launch, NABARD will conduct a two-week
> training programme aimed at creating the right awareness about organic
> agricultural techniques, organic manures, production of bio-control
> agents such as organic pesticides and organic fungicides, reports
> IANS.
>
> It will also inform the farmers about pesticide-free food production
> methods, post-harvest management means, food security through organic
> farming, and seed conservation, Shashidhar said.

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:3101  Copenhagen Summit - Green - MSN India

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It\'s our Future, Let\'s Fight Global Warming

http://green.in.msn.com/copenhagensummit/

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--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:3101 We want environment lovers not environmentalists: Narendra Modi -  Green News - Article - MSN India

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New Thoughts on Environment

http://green.in.msn.com/greennews/article.aspx?cp-documentid=3966812&page=0

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Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:3101 Sulabh toilets can help reduce global warming -  Green News - Article - MSN India

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Think Locally and Act Globally

http://green.in.msn.com/cleantechnologies/article.aspx?cp-documentid=3948360&page=0

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Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots - 25 new messages in 2 topics - digest

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alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots?hl=en

alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Obama: What A Fucktard!!!! - 15 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots/t/a65082e69b099dde?hl=en
* Steelers are in a fix now - 10 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots/t/6d3d138c44c12ca9?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Obama: What A Fucktard!!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots/t/a65082e69b099dde?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 15 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 30 2010 10:30 pm
From: Januarius


On 29 Jun 2010, ogrowup@webtv.net (Padraigh ProAmerica) posted some
news:13959-4C2ACD87-5520@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net:

> A Harvard study showed that, under the most optomistic scenario, a cap &
> trade system would have gasoline running at $7 per gallon. Diesel,
> heating oil, jet fuel, kerosene...how many problems would tripling the
> price of these fuels cause? Economic collapse would be the least of our
> worries if this benighted plan passes.
>
> "To be forced to believe only one conclusion- that everything in the
> universe happened by chance- would violate the very objectivity of
> science itself."
> Dr. Wernher von Braun


Obama is like a woman with an open checkbook. Every check gets used and
the bitch doesn't worry about the balance.

== 2 of 15 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 3:04 am
From: "rshersh@gmail.com"


On Jun 30, 10:30 pm, Januarius <anonym...@not-for-mail.invalid> wrote:
> On 29 Jun 2010, ogro...@webtv.net (Padraigh ProAmerica) posted somenews:13959-4C2ACD87-5520@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net:
>
> > A Harvard study showed that, under the most optomistic scenario, a cap &
> > trade system would have gasoline running at $7 per gallon. Diesel,
> > heating oil, jet fuel, kerosene...how many problems would tripling the
> > price of these fuels cause? Economic collapse would be the least of our
> > worries if this benighted plan passes.
>
> > "To be forced to believe only one conclusion- that everything in the
> > universe happened by chance- would violate the very objectivity of
> > science itself."
> >      Dr. Wernher von Braun
>
> Obama is like a woman with an open checkbook.  Every check gets used and
> the bitch doesn't worry about the balance.

btw, 10 years ago, did you think gas would be $4 a gal????


== 3 of 15 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 3:35 am
From: Larry G


On Jul 1, 6:04 am, "rshe...@gmail.com" <rshe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 30, 10:30 pm, Januarius <anonym...@not-for-mail.invalid> wrote:
>
> > On 29 Jun 2010, ogro...@webtv.net (Padraigh ProAmerica) posted somenews:13959-4C2ACD87-5520@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net:
>
> > > A Harvard study showed that, under the most optomistic scenario, a cap &
> > > trade system would have gasoline running at $7 per gallon. Diesel,
> > > heating oil, jet fuel, kerosene...how many problems would tripling the
> > > price of these fuels cause? Economic collapse would be the least of our
> > > worries if this benighted plan passes.
>
> > > "To be forced to believe only one conclusion- that everything in the
> > > universe happened by chance- would violate the very objectivity of
> > > science itself."
> > >      Dr. Wernher von Braun
>
> > Obama is like a woman with an open checkbook.  Every check gets used and
> > the bitch doesn't worry about the balance.
>
> btw, 10 years ago, did you think gas would be $4 a gal????

As I recall.. it was Bush with the checkbook for two wars, no?

we have the cost of gasoline verses collapse of the world scenario ALL
WRONG ANYHOW

what we should be looking at for a given country is the buying power
of their currency verses the cost of gasoline and if you did that
you'd find that many countries already pay FAR MORE than the
equivalent of $7 a gallon and in spite of the chicken-little warnings
of the collapse of civilization, many countries not only survive but
remain economically viable and competitive.

What you see instead in those countries is a lot more folks on
scooters and mini-cars, etc AND much less wanton wasteful usage of
fuels...

most countries in the industrialized world who compete against us use,
on average, 1/2 the per capita consumption and yet they still have
very productive economies.


== 4 of 15 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 6:00 am
From: "rshersh@gmail.com"


On Jul 1, 3:35 am, Larry G <gross.la...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 1, 6:04 am, "rshe...@gmail.com" <rshe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 30, 10:30 pm, Januarius <anonym...@not-for-mail.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > On 29 Jun 2010, ogro...@webtv.net (Padraigh ProAmerica) posted somenews:13959-4C2ACD87-5520@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net:
>
> > > > A Harvard study showed that, under the most optomistic scenario, a cap &
> > > > trade system would have gasoline running at $7 per gallon. Diesel,
> > > > heating oil, jet fuel, kerosene...how many problems would tripling the
> > > > price of these fuels cause? Economic collapse would be the least of our
> > > > worries if this benighted plan passes.
>
> > > > "To be forced to believe only one conclusion- that everything in the
> > > > universe happened by chance- would violate the very objectivity of
> > > > science itself."
> > > >      Dr. Wernher von Braun
>
> > > Obama is like a woman with an open checkbook.  Every check gets used and
> > > the bitch doesn't worry about the balance.
>
> > btw, 10 years ago, did you think gas would be $4 a gal????
>
> As I recall.. it was Bush with the checkbook for two wars, no?
>

as well, GWB's close relationship with the House of Saud

> we have the cost of gasoline verses collapse of the world scenario ALL
> WRONG ANYHOW
>
> what we should be looking at for a given country is the buying power
> of their currency verses the cost of gasoline and if you did that
> you'd find that many countries already pay FAR MORE than the
> equivalent of $7 a gallon and in spite of the chicken-little warnings
> of the collapse of civilization, many countries not only survive but
> remain economically viable and competitive.
>
> What you see instead in those countries is a lot more folks on
> scooters and mini-cars, etc AND much less wanton wasteful usage of
> fuels...
>
> most countries in the industrialized world who compete against us use,
> on average, 1/2 the per capita consumption and yet they still have
> very productive economies.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


The USof A has lived for many, many years on cheap labor, cheap
energy, and cheap taxes

it is not sutainable


== 5 of 15 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 7:07 am
From: Odo Ital


On Jul 1, 8:00 am, "rshe...@gmail.com" <rshe...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> The USof A has lived for many, many years on cheap labor, cheap
> energy, and cheap taxes
>
> it is not sutainable


Better start paying your taxes, then, boyo


== 6 of 15 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 8:16 am
From: A1247@gmail.com


On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:38:27 -0700 (PDT), "mr
dude@harvarduniversity.edu" <fosterfla@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jun 30, 4:06�pm, A1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> It's called prices are set on the world commodity market. �
>> Go read up on it sometime.
>
>So Obama knew this before 10% ethanol (which raised food prices due to
>corn feed price jumps)
You do realize Ethanol started long before Obama?

>This fucktard president is deliberately fucking up our country???
Just like Bush...............

== 7 of 15 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 8:19 am
From: clouddreamer


A1247@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:38:27 -0700 (PDT), "mr
> dude@harvarduniversity.edu" <fosterfla@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 30, 4:06 pm, A1...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> It's called prices are set on the world commodity market.
>>> Go read up on it sometime.
>> So Obama knew this before 10% ethanol (which raised food prices due to
>> corn feed price jumps)
> You do realize Ethanol started long before Obama?
>

Funny how people whine about ethanol raising food prices, but don't have
a problem eating beef...which soaks up TWO THIRDS of the US corn crop.

Get rid of beef and the prices will plummet.

..

--
We must change the way we live
Or the climate will do it for us.


== 8 of 15 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 8:21 am
From: A1247@gmail.com


>> > A Harvard study showed that, under the most optomistic scenario, a cap &
>> > trade system would have gasoline running at $7 per gallon.
Bear in mind when you add in the cost oil spill cleanup you're paying
more than $9 a gallon.

>> Obama is like a woman with an open checkbook.  Every check gets used and
>> the bitch doesn't worry about the balance.
He took lessaons from the Republicans under Bush.

>btw, 10 years ago, did you think gas would be $4 a gal????
As a matter of fact after sitting in gas lines and through
gas crisis of the 70s I fully expectd gas to
be alot higher than $4 a gallon.

You have a war in the Middle east break out
and you could easily see $40 a gallon gas.


== 9 of 15 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 3:28 pm
From: "rshersh@gmail.com"


On Jul 1, 7:07 am, Odo Ital <odolaa...@netster.com> wrote:
> On Jul 1, 8:00 am, "rshe...@gmail.com" <rshe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > The USof A has lived for many, many years on cheap labor, cheap
> > energy, and cheap taxes
>
> > it is not sutainable
>
> Better start paying your taxes, then, boyo

more serious evidence you are smoking crack

what makes you think I do not pay gas taxes????

come on crackhead tell us how I evade gas taxes

what is my secret??? we all want to know

we are all waiting for your answer

I am betting we do not hear from you


== 10 of 15 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 4:16 pm
From: "mr dude@harvarduniversity.edu"


On Jul 1, 6:35 am, Larry G <gross.la...@gmail.com> wrote:

> most countries in the industrialized world who compete against us use,
> on average, 1/2 the per capita consumption and yet they still have
> very productive economies.

You fail to mention that these are very small socialist countries!

mr dude

== 11 of 15 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 4:37 pm
From: Larry G


On Jul 1, 7:16 pm, "mr d...@harvarduniversity.edu"
<foster...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 1, 6:35 am, Larry G <gross.la...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > most countries in the industrialized world who compete against us use,
> > on average, 1/2 the per capita consumption and yet they still have
> > very productive economies.
>
> You fail to mention that these are very small socialist countries!
>
> mr dude

virtually ALL of the other industrialized countries in the world -
dude.

we are the most prolifigate user of energy per capita - in the world
both electricity and fuel.


== 12 of 15 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 4:38 pm
From: Larry G


On Jul 1, 11:21 am, A1...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > A Harvard study showed that, under the most optomistic scenario, a cap &
> >> > trade system would have gasoline running at $7 per gallon.
>
> Bear in mind when you add in the cost oil spill cleanup you're paying
> more than $9 a gallon.
>
> >> Obama is like a woman with an open checkbook.  Every check gets used and
> >> the bitch doesn't worry about the balance.
>
> He took lessaons from the Republicans under Bush.
>
> >btw, 10 years ago, did you think gas would be $4 a gal????
>
> As a matter of fact after sitting in gas lines and through
> gas crisis of the 70s I fully expectd gas to
> be alot higher than $4 a gallon.
>
> You have a war in the Middle east break out
> and you could easily see $40 a gallon gas.

naw... the neocons will have us nuke the place for sure


== 13 of 15 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 6:28 pm
From: "mr dude@harvarduniversity.edu"


On Jul 1, 7:37 pm, Larry G <gross.la...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> virtually ALL of the other industrialized countries in the world -
> dude.
>
> we are the most prolifigate user of energy per capita - in the world
> both electricity and fuel.

As we should be. We are the largest manufacturer and producer of goods
and services in the world (until the Chinese surpass us next year).

Compare the area and the population of the US to other countries:

The United States is the largest energy consumer in terms of total
use, using 100 quadrillion BTUs (105 exajoules, or 29 PWh) in 2005.
This is three times the consumption by the United States in 1950.[1]
As of 2006[update], the U.S. ranked fifteenth in energy consumption
per-capita after Canada and a number of small countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_States

My point is that the low-carbon footprints depend on the
infrastructure of life, and in that sense Europeans have an immediate
advantage. To live without a clothes dryer or AC in the United States
is considered tough and feels like a sacrifice. To do so in Rome —
where apartments all include a clothes-drying balcony or indoor rack,
and where buildings have thick walls and shutters to help you cope
with the heat — is the norm.

In many European countries, space has always been something of a
premium, forcing Europeans early on to live with greater awareness of
humans' negative effects on the planet. In small countries like the
Netherlands, it's hard to put garbage in distant landfills because you
tend to run into another city. In the U.S., open space is abundant and
often regarded as something to be developed. In Europe you cohabit
with it.

Also, in Europe, the construction of most cities preceded the
invention of cars. The centuries-old streets in London or Barcelona or
Rome simply can't accommodate much traffic — it's really a pain, but
you learn to live with it. In contrast, most American cities, think
Atlanta and Dallas, were designed for people with wheels.

mr dude

== 14 of 15 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 7:13 pm
From: "rshersh@gmail.com"


On Jul 1, 4:16 pm, "mr d...@harvarduniversity.edu"
<foster...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 1, 6:35 am, Larry G <gross.la...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > most countries in the industrialized world who compete against us use,
> > on average, 1/2 the per capita consumption and yet they still have
> > very productive economies.
>
> You fail to mention that these are very small socialist countries!
>
> mr dude

did you major in lying?????

Britian, 85 million, France 65 milllion are "very small, socialist
countries!"


and the US of A has done so very, very well since 1990, hasn't it????

6 yrs of idiot repubs and 8 yrs of idiot GWB, aa it makes for a
diffcult repair job

and idiots like dum dum elkins want to go back to that idiocy


== 15 of 15 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 7:20 pm
From: "rshersh@gmail.com"


In contrast, most American cities, think
> Atlanta and Dallas, were designed for people with wheels.
>
> mr dude

you are a idiot, aren't you???

those are truly wonderful places to live, esp if you enjoy living in
an automobile most of your waking hours.

2+ hour a day commutes to an 8 hour job is the norm

is that what you want???

plus to go to the super mkt requires 20-30 minutes+ there and back


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Steelers are in a fix now
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots/t/6d3d138c44c12ca9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 10:35 am
From: "Jimmy Joe Johnson"


In article <ScydnYRZwrozQrbRnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
"RickyBobby" <nascar42@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> And I still stand by every word of it. I may be all wrong but at least I am
> confident about it.
>
> I really do not care how big a person is on average of what their complexion
> may be or what faith system they have or what government they have. Those
> are all details.
>
> What is not a detail is how people act.
>
> The Chinese (and others) have been a big success everywhere that they go.
> The niggers have been a huge failure in niggerland and everywhere else they
> go. I am not making this up.

There is no bigger failure than the kenyan fraud named Soetoro,
Obama, whatever you want to call the jerk. He's so dumb that a
white college boy has to tell him what to say using a
teleprompter.


== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 11:22 am
From: "RickyBobby"


"Jimmy Joe Johnson" <jimmyjoe@johnson.com> wrote in message
news:543bd728fffad850ada208d92e8bf24a@msgid.frell.theremailer.net...
> In article <ScydnYRZwrozQrbRnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
> "RickyBobby" <nascar42@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> And I still stand by every word of it. I may be all wrong but at least I
>> am
>> confident about it.
>>
>> I really do not care how big a person is on average of what their
>> complexion
>> may be or what faith system they have or what government they have.
>> Those
>> are all details.
>>
>> What is not a detail is how people act.
>>
>> The Chinese (and others) have been a big success everywhere that they go.
>> The niggers have been a huge failure in niggerland and everywhere else
>> they
>> go. I am not making this up.
>
> There is no bigger failure than the kenyan fraud named Soetoro,
> Obama, whatever you want to call the jerk. He's so dumb that a
> white college boy has to tell him what to say using a
> teleprompter.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

The President does give a nice speech. I give him high marks for that. And
he still has three years to go to accomplish something. If he can get our
troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan he will have done a good job. And then
we can elect him again.

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 11:47 am
From: DumpObama@America. (* US *)


On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 11:22:06 -0700, "RickyBobby" <nascar42@cox.net>
wrote:

>
>
>"Jimmy Joe Johnson" <jimmyjoe@johnson.com> wrote in message
>news:543bd728fffad850ada208d92e8bf24a@msgid.frell.theremailer.net...
>> In article <ScydnYRZwrozQrbRnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
>> "RickyBobby" <nascar42@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And I still stand by every word of it. I may be all wrong but at least I
>>> am
>>> confident about it.
>>>
>>> I really do not care how big a person is on average of what their
>>> complexion
>>> may be or what faith system they have or what government they have.
>>> Those
>>> are all details.
>>>
>>> What is not a detail is how people act.
>>>
>>> The Chinese (and others) have been a big success everywhere that they go.
>>> The niggers have been a huge failure in niggerland and everywhere else
>>> they
>>> go. I am not making this up.
>>
>> There is no bigger failure than the kenyan fraud named Soetoro,
>> Obama, whatever you want to call the jerk. He's so dumb that a
>> white college boy has to tell him what to say using a
>> teleprompter.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>The President does give a nice speech. I give him high marks for that. And
>he still has three years to go to accomplish something. If he can get our
>troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan he will have done a good job. And then
>we can elect him again.
>
Another satisfied Obammy welfare recipient chimes in.


== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 1:49 pm
From: Salad


RickyBobby wrote:

>> There is no bigger failure than the kenyan fraud named Soetoro,
>> Obama, whatever you want to call the jerk. He's so dumb that a
>> white college boy has to tell him what to say using a
>> teleprompter.
>>

It took a black man to show Republicans that a teleprompter can be an
effective tool in politics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO46ii3W07U.


== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 1:59 pm
From: DumpObama@America. (* US *)


On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:49:15 -0700, Salad <salad@oilandvinegar.com>
wrote:

>RickyBobby wrote:
>
>>> There is no bigger failure than the kenyan fraud named Soetoro,
>>> Obama, whatever you want to call the jerk. He's so dumb that a
>>> white college boy has to tell him what to say using a
>>> teleprompter.
>>>
>
>It took a black man to show Republicans that a teleprompter can be an
>effective tool in politics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO46ii3W07U.

Damn shame that he's not qualified to manage anything, let alone a
superpower.


== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 3:19 pm
From: Salad


* US * wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:49:15 -0700, Salad <salad@oilandvinegar.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>RickyBobby wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>There is no bigger failure than the kenyan fraud named Soetoro,
>>>>Obama, whatever you want to call the jerk. He's so dumb that a
>>>>white college boy has to tell him what to say using a
>>>>teleprompter.
>>>>
>>
>>It took a black man to show Republicans that a teleprompter can be an
>>effective tool in politics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO46ii3W07U.
>
>
> Damn shame that he's not qualified to manage anything, let alone a
> superpower.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOuZpwQb_Pg

Well said. Then again, he hopes the US succeeds. Not like the enemies
that infest the US...Republicans, the "party of NO, yes we can't".


== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 3:22 pm
From: DumpObama@America. (* US *)


On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 15:19:14 -0700, Salad <salad@oilandvinegar.com>
wrote:

>* US * wrote:
>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:49:15 -0700, Salad <salad@oilandvinegar.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>RickyBobby wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>There is no bigger failure than the kenyan fraud named Soetoro,
>>>>>Obama, whatever you want to call the jerk. He's so dumb that a
>>>>>white college boy has to tell him what to say using a
>>>>>teleprompter.
>>>>>
>>>
>>>It took a black man to show Republicans that a teleprompter can be an
>>>effective tool in politics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO46ii3W07U.
>>
>>
>> Damn shame that he's not qualified to manage anything, let alone a
>> superpower.
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOuZpwQb_Pg
>
>Well said. Then again, he hopes the US succeeds. Not like the enemies
>that infest the US...Republicans, the "party of NO, yes we can't".

Actually, he hopes that the socialist model he is installing succeeds.


== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 5:31 pm
From: Salad


* US * wrote:

> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 15:19:14 -0700, Salad <salad@oilandvinegar.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>* US * wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:49:15 -0700, Salad <salad@oilandvinegar.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>RickyBobby wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>There is no bigger failure than the kenyan fraud named Soetoro,
>>>>>>Obama, whatever you want to call the jerk. He's so dumb that a
>>>>>>white college boy has to tell him what to say using a
>>>>>>teleprompter.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It took a black man to show Republicans that a teleprompter can be an
>>>>effective tool in politics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO46ii3W07U.
>>>
>>>
>>>Damn shame that he's not qualified to manage anything, let alone a
>>>superpower.
>>
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOuZpwQb_Pg
>>
>>Well said. Then again, he hopes the US succeeds. Not like the enemies
>>that infest the US...Republicans, the "party of NO, yes we can't".
>
>
> Actually, he hopes that the socialist model he is installing succeeds.

What model was used the previous 8 years?

And with the banks gambling 605 TRILLION now and the politicians willing
to sell the US for a few bucks in their pockets I'm sure we'll all be
suffering more soon.


== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 6:58 pm
From: "Brian Allen"


> There is no bigger failure than the kenyan fraud named Soetoro,
> Obama, whatever you want to call the jerk. He's so dumb that a
> white college boy has to tell him what to say using a
> teleprompter.

Bad troll is bad.


== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 6:59 pm
From: "Brian Allen"


> Actually, he hopes that the socialist model he is installing succeeds.

Do you really believe that, or are you just parroting Fox News?


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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 5 topics - digest

Buzz It
rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Hey Laff - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/aa961c3e7dc8980f?hl=en
* The French Surrender Again - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4b837ae7abe0cd17?hl=en
* The Philosophy of Faith versus Science – Lance and PEDs - 4 messages, 4
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/ba36316b5f828f68?hl=en
* Vayer again - 18 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5e9bb96d4d42ed31?hl=en
* TdF Stage 3 - Risk to Contador? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/17379c8d766113ba?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hey Laff
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/aa961c3e7dc8980f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 1:21 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


On 07/01/2010 08:51 AM, Fred Flintstein wrote:
> Evil makes you stronger.
>
> http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2010/04/strength-in-naughty-or-nice/

Dumbass,

I already knew Laff was superhuman.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The French Surrender Again
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4b837ae7abe0cd17?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 1:26 pm
From: "Fred Gringioni"

"Fredmaster of Brainerd" <bjweiner@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:480a49e4-c488-4b0f-8198-eb724ec9b1aa@d16g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

:: When I was about 12 or so I played on a club soccer
:: team (I was terrible BTW) and we used to take a van
:: out to the burbs to play middle school teams, I think
:: because there weren't other clubs of kids that age
:: for us to play in the city, a city of about 400K people.
:: That's one reason that US soccer sucked, and still
:: kinda sucks. No pipeline.


Dumbass -

There's definitely a pipeline now - they're just not yet old enough to make
an impact at the World Cup level.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Philosophy of Faith versus Science – Lance and PEDs
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/ba36316b5f828f68?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 1:42 pm
From: DA74


On Jul 1, 11:18 am, Frederick the Great <los...@the.movies> wrote:
> In article
> <4ec1e782-00b6-47c8-a7f4-7e94f4185...@z34g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
>  Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Phil - the 'faith based' are all on the "Lance is clean" camp.  He has
> > tested positive for both 'at that time' and retroactive tests.
>
> > Those irrefutable facts, by themselves, make the "Lance is clean" camp
> > less about faith and more about denial and delusion.
>
> > As an agnostic non-theist (the only rational POV IMHO) I have no
> > problem admitting that "I don't know" or "can't know" when it comes to
> > a higher power.
>
> > However, when it comes to the Bible and Lance Armstrong, I can
> > unequivocally say that they are both full of shit and regurgitate a
> > constant stream of lies and only self-deceiving fools and the mentally
> > and morally weak believe in them.
>
> Ever notice how the anti-religious are humorless
> absolutists hunting for people to incinerate?
>
> --
> Old Fritz

Ever notice how the religious have successfully incinerated those who
dare ask questions throughout the centuries?

1200s: Christians burned the Waldenses heretics for questioning
ecclessiastical power
1300s: Christians burned the Jews of Cologne whom they blamed for the
Black Death (when in actuality it was the Christian's burning of the
"evil" cats that let rats proliferate and spread the plague. Ain't
irony great?)
1400s: Christians burned John Huss of Bohemia for talking about
corruption of the popes
1500s: Savonarola, Christian bookburner extraordinaire is himself
burned at the stake for critisizing the pope
1600s: John Calvin orders Dr. Servetus burned at the stake for
critisizing the holy trinity and infant baptism...
...and on and on and on....


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 2:09 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article
<4cd0e0b3-e8ad-48d4-9234-6331125fcbe6@k14g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
DA74 <davidastor74@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Jul 1, 11:18 am, Frederick the Great <los...@the.movies> wrote:
> > In article
> > <4ec1e782-00b6-47c8-a7f4-7e94f4185...@z34g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
> >  Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Phil - the 'faith based' are all on the "Lance is clean" camp.  He has
> > > tested positive for both 'at that time' and retroactive tests.
> >
> > > Those irrefutable facts, by themselves, make the "Lance is clean" camp
> > > less about faith and more about denial and delusion.
> >
> > > As an agnostic non-theist (the only rational POV IMHO) I have no
> > > problem admitting that "I don't know" or "can't know" when it comes to
> > > a higher power.
> >
> > > However, when it comes to the Bible and Lance Armstrong, I can
> > > unequivocally say that they are both full of shit and regurgitate a
> > > constant stream of lies and only self-deceiving fools and the mentally
> > > and morally weak believe in them.
> >
> > Ever notice how the anti-religious are humorless
> > absolutists hunting for people to incinerate?
>
> Ever notice how the religious have successfully incinerated those who
> dare ask questions throughout the centuries?

Well spotted! I made an oblique reference to
religious persecutions, and you picked out in a trice.

--
Old Fritz


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 2:13 pm
From: Michael Press


In article
<2b04128f-4282-4dea-8189-ea2519191c98@x2g2000prk.googlegroups.com>,
Anton Berlin <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Jul 1, 1:18 pm, Frederick the Great <los...@the.movies> wrote:
> > In article
> > <4ec1e782-00b6-47c8-a7f4-7e94f4185...@z34g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
> >  Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Phil - the 'faith based' are all on the "Lance is clean" camp.  He has
> > > tested positive for both 'at that time' and retroactive tests.
> >
> > > Those irrefutable facts, by themselves, make the "Lance is clean" camp
> > > less about faith and more about denial and delusion.
> >
> > > As an agnostic non-theist (the only rational POV IMHO) I have no
> > > problem admitting that "I don't know" or "can't know" when it comes to
> > > a higher power.
> >
> > > However, when it comes to the Bible and Lance Armstrong, I can
> > > unequivocally say that they are both full of shit and regurgitate a
> > > constant stream of lies and only self-deceiving fools and the mentally
> > > and morally weak believe in them.
> >
> > Ever notice how the anti-religious are humorless
> > absolutists hunting for people to incinerate?
>
> What's funny about any of the top 10 atrocities (as an example)
> performed and or hidden under the Vatican's watch?

Are you going for body count?
Can we settle this with numbers?
Add them up.

Anti-religious Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili
Anti-religious Mao Tse Tung
Anti-religious Adolf Hitler

I win.

--
Michael Press


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 3:45 pm
From: Ningi


On 01/07/2010 22:13, Michael Press wrote:
> In article
> <2b04128f-4282-4dea-8189-ea2519191c98@x2g2000prk.googlegroups.com>,
> Anton Berlin<truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jul 1, 1:18 pm, Frederick the Great<los...@the.movies> wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <4ec1e782-00b6-47c8-a7f4-7e94f4185...@z34g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
>>> Anton Berlin<truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Phil - the 'faith based' are all on the "Lance is clean" camp. He has
>>>> tested positive for both 'at that time' and retroactive tests.
>>>
>>>> Those irrefutable facts, by themselves, make the "Lance is clean" camp
>>>> less about faith and more about denial and delusion.
>>>
>>>> As an agnostic non-theist (the only rational POV IMHO) I have no
>>>> problem admitting that "I don't know" or "can't know" when it comes to
>>>> a higher power.
>>>
>>>> However, when it comes to the Bible and Lance Armstrong, I can
>>>> unequivocally say that they are both full of shit and regurgitate a
>>>> constant stream of lies and only self-deceiving fools and the mentally
>>>> and morally weak believe in them.
>>>
>>> Ever notice how the anti-religious are humorless
>>> absolutists hunting for people to incinerate?
>>
>> What's funny about any of the top 10 atrocities (as an example)
>> performed and or hidden under the Vatican's watch?
>
> Are you going for body count?
> Can we settle this with numbers?
> Add them up.
>
> Anti-religious Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili
> Anti-religious Mao Tse Tung
> Anti-religious Adolf Hitler
>
> I win.
>

You appear confused about Hitler.

That's a polite way of saying you are wrong.

Pete

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Vayer again
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5e9bb96d4d42ed31?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 2:24 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 7/1/2010 12:46 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
> On Jul 1, 8:54 am, Fred Flintstein<bob.schwa...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net>
> wrote:
>> Jesus Fucking Christ. I wonder if he's got his math
>> figured out yet?
>>
>> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727673.900-superhuman-perform...
>>
>> Fred Flintstein
>
> I think it's cool, because the way I read this paragraph:
>
> "In one study of 11 world-class cyclists, the highest VO2 max was 82.5
> ml/kg/min (Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, vol 34, p
> 2079). Levels above 85 ml/kg/min are "very rare", says Ross Tucker at
> the University of Cape Town in South Africa. Olaf Schumacher at the
> University of Freiburg in Germany agrees, saying that values above
> this for cyclists are "definitely very high" and beyond what he feels
> is "natural"."
>
> .... it means that Greg Lemond, with a self-acknowledged VO2max> 90
> ml/kg/min, is absolutely and clearly a drug cheat. He should make a
> public acknowlegement.
>
> Brad Anders

Love your logic. Carry on.


== 2 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 2:28 pm
From: Brad Anders


On Jul 1, 2:24 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:

> Love your logic.  Carry on.

Not really my logic, though I got close to this when discussing
Rominger's hour record over 15 years ago. It's Vayer's and Lemond's
logic, now. Like I said in another posting, just disqualify the
winner. He had to have been a cheat, since we know they're all cheats
and he beat them.

Brad Anders


== 3 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 2:46 pm
From: --D-y


On Jul 1, 4:24 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 7/1/2010 12:46 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 1, 8:54 am, Fred Flintstein<bob.schwa...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net>
> > wrote:
> >> Jesus Fucking Christ. I wonder if he's got his math
> >> figured out yet?
>
> >>http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727673.900-superhuman-perform...
>
> >> Fred Flintstein
>
> > I think it's cool, because the way I read this paragraph:
>
> > "In one study of 11 world-class cyclists, the highest VO2 max was 82.5
> > ml/kg/min (Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, vol 34, p
> > 2079). Levels above 85 ml/kg/min are "very rare", says Ross Tucker at
> > the University of Cape Town in South Africa. Olaf Schumacher at the
> > University of Freiburg in Germany agrees, saying that values above
> > this for cyclists are "definitely very high" and beyond what he feels
> > is "natural"."
>
> > .... it means that Greg Lemond, with a self-acknowledged VO2max>  90
> > ml/kg/min, is absolutely and clearly a drug cheat. He should make a
> > public acknowlegement.
>
> > Brad Anders
>
> Love your logic.  Carry on.

"It's even more delicious when the Lemond Anti-Lance Vector might have
been the biggest cheat of all".
("Not saying he was, of course. We don't prove anything here, but
invite the readers to look at the numbers and decide for themselves")
--D-y


== 4 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 2:59 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 7/1/2010 5:28 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
> On Jul 1, 2:24 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> Love your logic. Carry on.
>
> Not really my logic, though I got close to this when discussing
> Rominger's hour record over 15 years ago. It's Vayer's and Lemond's
> logic, now. Like I said in another posting, just disqualify the
> winner. He had to have been a cheat, since we know they're all cheats
> and he beat them.
>
> Brad Anders

The core point is that prior to the advent of epo certain wattage levels
when climbing were not reached. The calculations are relatively easy to
do with known climbs when you have the climbing time and a fairly
accurate approximation of the rider's weight with bicycle.

It is what it is. As for Lemond, IIRC, his Vo2 max was measured in the
lab, pre-epo era, at 93. Armstrong was around 82 although his web site
had it creeping upward to 83 or 83.5 at one point. Take a look at
http://bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/lemond.html


== 5 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 3:58 pm
From: Brad Anders


On Jul 1, 2:59 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:

> The core point is that prior to the advent of epo certain wattage levels
> when climbing were not reached.  The calculations are relatively easy to
> do with known climbs when you have the climbing time and a fairly
> accurate approximation of the rider's weight with bicycle.

Yeah, I know. I used to write a column in "Winning" about such
things.

Brad Anders


== 6 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 4:30 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 7/1/2010 6:58 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
> On Jul 1, 2:59 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> The core point is that prior to the advent of epo certain wattage levels
>> when climbing were not reached. The calculations are relatively easy to
>> do with known climbs when you have the climbing time and a fairly
>> accurate approximation of the rider's weight with bicycle.
>
> Yeah, I know. I used to write a column in "Winning" about such
> things.
>
> Brad Anders
>
>
What is Rich Carlsen up to these days?


== 7 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 4:51 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


B. Lafferty wrote:

> pre-epo

There is disagreement over what that means. There are some who
conveniently define that to mean "before Lemond retired".


== 8 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 5:08 pm
From: --D-y


On Jul 1, 4:59 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 7/1/2010 5:28 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
>
> > On Jul 1, 2:24 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com>  wrote:
>
> >> Love your logic.  Carry on.
>
> > Not really my logic, though I got close to this when discussing
> > Rominger's hour record over 15 years ago. It's Vayer's and Lemond's
> > logic, now. Like I said in another posting, just disqualify the
> > winner. He had to have been a cheat, since we know they're all cheats
> > and he beat them.
>
> > Brad Anders
>
> The core point is that prior to the advent of epo certain wattage levels
> when climbing were not reached.  The calculations are relatively easy to
> do with known climbs when you have the climbing time and a fairly
> accurate approximation of the rider's weight with bicycle.
>
> It is what it is.  As for Lemond, IIRC, his Vo2 max was measured in the
> lab, pre-epo era, at 93.  Armstrong was around 82 although his web site
> had it creeping upward to 83 or 83.5 at one point. Take a look athttp://bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/lemond.html

Jeeze, Brian, you call people here fanboys. Chairman of what Bill, I
couldn't read too far.

Never forgetting, the alleged VO max is both the source of
"entitlement" *and* virtual wins.
Well, of course, entitlement is the source of the virtual wins, but...

Who knows what Lemond was on that day in the lab?
If he could show those numbers every day, given his generation-topping
"bike handling", he should have won every race he ever entered, even
with everyone conspiring against him-- unless he fell down, of course.
--D-y


== 9 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 5:12 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 7/1/2010 7:51 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:
> B. Lafferty wrote:
>
>> pre-epo
>
> There is disagreement over what that means. There are some who
> conveniently define that to mean "before Lemond retired".

There is disagreement as to when epo use became common. It has nothing
to do with when Lemond retired. There is no disagreement regarding the
average wattage output of climbers in the Tour and the fact that wattage
output increased dramatically once epo was readily available. Lemond,
while at the high end of the performance curve, was behind the curve
once epo became prevalent.


== 10 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 5:15 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 7/1/2010 8:08 PM, --D-y wrote:
> On Jul 1, 4:59 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On 7/1/2010 5:28 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
>>
>>> On Jul 1, 2:24 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Love your logic. Carry on.
>>
>>> Not really my logic, though I got close to this when discussing
>>> Rominger's hour record over 15 years ago. It's Vayer's and Lemond's
>>> logic, now. Like I said in another posting, just disqualify the
>>> winner. He had to have been a cheat, since we know they're all cheats
>>> and he beat them.
>>
>>> Brad Anders
>>
>> The core point is that prior to the advent of epo certain wattage levels
>> when climbing were not reached. The calculations are relatively easy to
>> do with known climbs when you have the climbing time and a fairly
>> accurate approximation of the rider's weight with bicycle.
>>
>> It is what it is. As for Lemond, IIRC, his Vo2 max was measured in the
>> lab, pre-epo era, at 93. Armstrong was around 82 although his web site
>> had it creeping upward to 83 or 83.5 at one point. Take a look athttp://bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/lemond.html
>
> Jeeze, Brian, you call people here fanboys. Chairman of what Bill, I
> couldn't read too far.

Founder of Torelli Imports. The issue isn't really Vo2 Max. It's
wattage. You might understand that by reading a bit further.

>
> Never forgetting, the alleged VO max is both the source of
> "entitlement" *and* virtual wins.
> Well, of course, entitlement is the source of the virtual wins, but...
>
> Who knows what Lemond was on that day in the lab?
> If he could show those numbers every day, given his generation-topping
> "bike handling", he should have won every race he ever entered, even
> with everyone conspiring against him-- unless he fell down, of course.
> --D-y

== 11 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 5:18 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 7/1/2010 8:15 PM, B. Lafferty wrote:
> On 7/1/2010 8:08 PM, --D-y wrote:
>> On Jul 1, 4:59 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> On 7/1/2010 5:28 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jul 1, 2:24 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Love your logic. Carry on.
>>>
>>>> Not really my logic, though I got close to this when discussing
>>>> Rominger's hour record over 15 years ago. It's Vayer's and Lemond's
>>>> logic, now. Like I said in another posting, just disqualify the
>>>> winner. He had to have been a cheat, since we know they're all cheats
>>>> and he beat them.
>>>
>>>> Brad Anders
>>>
>>> The core point is that prior to the advent of epo certain wattage levels
>>> when climbing were not reached. The calculations are relatively easy to
>>> do with known climbs when you have the climbing time and a fairly
>>> accurate approximation of the rider's weight with bicycle.
>>>
>>> It is what it is. As for Lemond, IIRC, his Vo2 max was measured in the
>>> lab, pre-epo era, at 93. Armstrong was around 82 although his web site
>>> had it creeping upward to 83 or 83.5 at one point. Take a look
>>> athttp://bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/lemond.html
>>
>> Jeeze, Brian, you call people here fanboys. Chairman of what Bill, I
>> couldn't read too far.
>
> Founder of Torelli Imports. The issue isn't really Vo2 Max. It's
> wattage. You might understand that by reading a bit further.
>
>>
>> Never forgetting, the alleged VO max is both the source of
>> "entitlement" *and* virtual wins.
>> Well, of course, entitlement is the source of the virtual wins, but...
>>
>> Who knows what Lemond was on that day in the lab?
>> If he could show those numbers every day, given his generation-topping
>> "bike handling", he should have won every race he ever entered, even
>> with everyone conspiring against him-- unless he fell down, of course.
>> --D-y
>
I should also remind you that I suspected and wrote about Lemond and
steroid abuse that may have led to the onset of his mitochondrial
myopathy. That would have been back in the mid-1990s.


== 12 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 5:32 pm
From: "Fred Gringioni"

"B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:8rOdncscoutRkrDRnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
: On 7/1/2010 5:28 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
: > On Jul 1, 2:24 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
: >
: >> Love your logic. Carry on.
: >
: > Not really my logic, though I got close to this when discussing
: > Rominger's hour record over 15 years ago. It's Vayer's and Lemond's
: > logic, now. Like I said in another posting, just disqualify the
: > winner. He had to have been a cheat, since we know they're all cheats
: > and he beat them.
: >
: > Brad Anders
:
: The core point is that prior to the advent of epo certain wattage levels
: when climbing were not reached. The calculations are relatively easy to
: do with known climbs when you have the climbing time and a fairly
: accurate approximation of the rider's weight with bicycle.
:
: It is what it is. As for Lemond, IIRC, his Vo2 max was measured in the
: lab, pre-epo era, at 93. Armstrong was around 82 although his web site
: had it creeping upward to 83 or 83.5 at one point. Take a look at
: http://bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/lemond.html

Dumbass -

VO2 can be increased since the denominator is the athlete's weight (in
kilograms).

Anders is right about Lemond being dirty if he uses his own logic.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

== 13 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 5:45 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 7/1/2010 8:32 PM, Fred Gringioni wrote:
>
> "B. Lafferty"<bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:8rOdncscoutRkrDRnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> : On 7/1/2010 5:28 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
> :> On Jul 1, 2:24 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> :>
> :>> Love your logic. Carry on.
> :>
> :> Not really my logic, though I got close to this when discussing
> :> Rominger's hour record over 15 years ago. It's Vayer's and Lemond's
> :> logic, now. Like I said in another posting, just disqualify the
> :> winner. He had to have been a cheat, since we know they're all cheats
> :> and he beat them.
> :>
> :> Brad Anders
> :
> : The core point is that prior to the advent of epo certain wattage levels
> : when climbing were not reached. The calculations are relatively easy to
> : do with known climbs when you have the climbing time and a fairly
> : accurate approximation of the rider's weight with bicycle.
> :
> : It is what it is. As for Lemond, IIRC, his Vo2 max was measured in the
> : lab, pre-epo era, at 93. Armstrong was around 82 although his web site
> : had it creeping upward to 83 or 83.5 at one point. Take a look at
> : http://bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/lemond.html
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> VO2 can be increased since the denominator is the athlete's weight (in
> kilograms).
>
> Anders is right about Lemond being dirty if he uses his own logic.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
It's about the wattage, dumb dumb.


== 14 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 5:55 pm
From: "Fred Gringioni"

"B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:MISdnaS-TLZRq7DRnZ2dnUVZ_rOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
: On 7/1/2010 8:32 PM, Fred Gringioni wrote:
: >
: > "B. Lafferty"<bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
: > news:8rOdncscoutRkrDRnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
: > : On 7/1/2010 5:28 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
: > :> On Jul 1, 2:24 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
: > :>
: > :>> Love your logic. Carry on.
: > :>
: > :> Not really my logic, though I got close to this when discussing
: > :> Rominger's hour record over 15 years ago. It's Vayer's and Lemond's
: > :> logic, now. Like I said in another posting, just disqualify the
: > :> winner. He had to have been a cheat, since we know they're all
cheats
: > :> and he beat them.
: > :>
: > :> Brad Anders
: > :
: > : The core point is that prior to the advent of epo certain wattage
levels
: > : when climbing were not reached. The calculations are relatively easy
to
: > : do with known climbs when you have the climbing time and a fairly
: > : accurate approximation of the rider's weight with bicycle.
: > :
: > : It is what it is. As for Lemond, IIRC, his Vo2 max was measured in
the
: > : lab, pre-epo era, at 93. Armstrong was around 82 although his web
site
: > : had it creeping upward to 83 or 83.5 at one point. Take a look at
: > : http://bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/lemond.html
: >
: >
: >
: > Dumbass -
: >
: > VO2 can be increased since the denominator is the athlete's weight (in
: > kilograms).
: >
: > Anders is right about Lemond being dirty if he uses his own logic.
: >
: > thanks,
: >
: > Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
: >
: It's about the wattage, dumb dumb.


Dumbass -

I guess that, all else being equal, bigger VO2 doesn't equal more wattage
eh?

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

== 15 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 6:16 pm
From: Brad Anders


On Jul 1, 5:45 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 7/1/2010 8:32 PM, Fred Gringioni wrote:
>
>
>
> > "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com>  wrote in message
> >news:8rOdncscoutRkrDRnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> > : On 7/1/2010 5:28 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
> > :>  On Jul 1, 2:24 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com>   wrote:
> > :>
> > :>>  Love your logic.  Carry on.
> > :>
> > :>  Not really my logic, though I got close to this when discussing
> > :>  Rominger's hour record over 15 years ago. It's Vayer's and Lemond's
> > :>  logic, now. Like I said in another posting, just disqualify the
> > :>  winner. He had to have been a cheat, since we know they're all cheats
> > :>  and he beat them.
> > :>
> > :>  Brad Anders
> > :
> > : The core point is that prior to the advent of epo certain wattage levels
> > : when climbing were not reached.  The calculations are relatively easy to
> > : do with known climbs when you have the climbing time and a fairly
> > : accurate approximation of the rider's weight with bicycle.
> > :
> > : It is what it is.  As for Lemond, IIRC, his Vo2 max was measured in the
> > : lab, pre-epo era, at 93.  Armstrong was around 82 although his web site
> > : had it creeping upward to 83 or 83.5 at one point. Take a look at
> > :http://bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/lemond.html
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > VO2 can be increased since the denominator is the athlete's weight (in
> > kilograms).
>
> > Anders is right about Lemond being dirty if he uses his own logic.
>
> > thanks,
>
> > Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> It's about the wattage, dumb dumb.

Uh, Brian, read the quote I cited from the article. Independent of any
observation of extreme average power levels, the physiologist cited
said that levels over 90 ml/kg/min for VO2max were not "natural". It
therefore follows that in his estimation, a person like Lemond, with a
<measured> (not estimated, not inferred, not implied) VO2max of over
92 ml/kg/min almost certainly attained that level in an "unnatural"
manner, in the view of the physiologist. You can also include guys
like Bjorn Dahlie, who it is reported actually exceeded 100 ml/kg/min.
Seeing as how Lemond has been trumpeting that these implied methods
are as good as blood and urine tests for detecting dopers, he should
be the first to acknowledge that his own performances are suspect.

As for the power relationship to VO2max, this is far less clear. As
Marquis used to remind us regularly (and rightly, IMO), a high VO2max
is not an assurance of cycling success. Sustained power output is a
combination of oxygen uptake (related to VO2max), cycling efficiency,
lactate tolerance, and mechanical considerations. VO2max is a strong
indicator, but not the only factor. I would also suggest that any
estimate of power output in lieu of actual data from Powertap or SRM
records is suspect, as it is an estimate and does not comprehend
variations due to drafting (small, but significant at the climbing
speeds of pros) or known and accurate assessments of rolling
resistance or actual rider+bike+gear weight.

Brad Anders


== 16 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 6:40 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 7/1/2010 9:16 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
> On Jul 1, 5:45 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On 7/1/2010 8:32 PM, Fred Gringioni wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>> news:8rOdncscoutRkrDRnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> : On 7/1/2010 5:28 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
>>> :> On Jul 1, 2:24 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> :>
>>> :>> Love your logic. Carry on.
>>> :>
>>> :> Not really my logic, though I got close to this when discussing
>>> :> Rominger's hour record over 15 years ago. It's Vayer's and Lemond's
>>> :> logic, now. Like I said in another posting, just disqualify the
>>> :> winner. He had to have been a cheat, since we know they're all cheats
>>> :> and he beat them.
>>> :>
>>> :> Brad Anders
>>> :
>>> : The core point is that prior to the advent of epo certain wattage levels
>>> : when climbing were not reached. The calculations are relatively easy to
>>> : do with known climbs when you have the climbing time and a fairly
>>> : accurate approximation of the rider's weight with bicycle.
>>> :
>>> : It is what it is. As for Lemond, IIRC, his Vo2 max was measured in the
>>> : lab, pre-epo era, at 93. Armstrong was around 82 although his web site
>>> : had it creeping upward to 83 or 83.5 at one point. Take a look at
>>> :http://bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/lemond.html
>>
>>> Dumbass -
>>
>>> VO2 can be increased since the denominator is the athlete's weight (in
>>> kilograms).
>>
>>> Anders is right about Lemond being dirty if he uses his own logic.
>>
>>> thanks,
>>
>>> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>>
>> It's about the wattage, dumb dumb.
>
> Uh, Brian, read the quote I cited from the article. Independent of any
> observation of extreme average power levels, the physiologist cited
> said that levels over 90 ml/kg/min for VO2max were not "natural". It
> therefore follows that in his estimation, a person like Lemond, with a
> <measured> (not estimated, not inferred, not implied) VO2max of over
> 92 ml/kg/min almost certainly attained that level in an "unnatural"
> manner, in the view of the physiologist. You can also include guys
> like Bjorn Dahlie, who it is reported actually exceeded 100 ml/kg/min.
> Seeing as how Lemond has been trumpeting that these implied methods
> are as good as blood and urine tests for detecting dopers, he should
> be the first to acknowledge that his own performances are suspect.

If athletes in varying sports have been subject to Vo2 Max tests in the
early 1980 or before, the physiologist needs to explain how such results
are possible absent doping.

>
> As for the power relationship to VO2max, this is far less clear. As
> Marquis used to remind us regularly (and rightly, IMO), a high VO2max
> is not an assurance of cycling success. Sustained power output is a
> combination of oxygen uptake (related to VO2max), cycling efficiency,
> lactate tolerance, and mechanical considerations. VO2max is a strong
> indicator, but not the only factor. I would also suggest that any
> estimate of power output in lieu of actual data from Powertap or SRM
> records is suspect, as it is an estimate and does not comprehend
> variations due to drafting (small, but significant at the climbing
> speeds of pros) or known and accurate assessments of rolling
> resistance or actual rider+bike+gear weight.

While the climbing wattages may not be as accurate as those recorded
with Powertap or SRM, they are accurate enough to demonstrate that
something happened at the time epo use became prevalent. What do you
think a reasonable margin of error would be for those earlier wattage
estimates?

>
> Brad Anders

== 17 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 6:42 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 7/1/2010 8:55 PM, Fred Gringioni wrote:
>
> "B. Lafferty"<bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:MISdnaS-TLZRq7DRnZ2dnUVZ_rOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> : On 7/1/2010 8:32 PM, Fred Gringioni wrote:
> :>
> :> "B. Lafferty"<bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> :> news:8rOdncscoutRkrDRnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> :> : On 7/1/2010 5:28 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
> :> :> On Jul 1, 2:24 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> :> :>
> :> :>> Love your logic. Carry on.
> :> :>
> :> :> Not really my logic, though I got close to this when discussing
> :> :> Rominger's hour record over 15 years ago. It's Vayer's and Lemond's
> :> :> logic, now. Like I said in another posting, just disqualify the
> :> :> winner. He had to have been a cheat, since we know they're all
> cheats
> :> :> and he beat them.
> :> :>
> :> :> Brad Anders
> :> :
> :> : The core point is that prior to the advent of epo certain wattage
> levels
> :> : when climbing were not reached. The calculations are relatively easy
> to
> :> : do with known climbs when you have the climbing time and a fairly
> :> : accurate approximation of the rider's weight with bicycle.
> :> :
> :> : It is what it is. As for Lemond, IIRC, his Vo2 max was measured in
> the
> :> : lab, pre-epo era, at 93. Armstrong was around 82 although his web
> site
> :> : had it creeping upward to 83 or 83.5 at one point. Take a look at
> :> : http://bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/lemond.html
> :>
> :>
> :>
> :> Dumbass -
> :>
> :> VO2 can be increased since the denominator is the athlete's weight (in
> :> kilograms).
> :>
> :> Anders is right about Lemond being dirty if he uses his own logic.
> :>
> :> thanks,
> :>
> :> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> :>
> : It's about the wattage, dumb dumb.
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> I guess that, all else being equal, bigger VO2 doesn't equal more wattage
> eh?
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
The issue is how you effectively increase your Vo2 and your wattage,
dumb dumb.


== 18 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 7:05 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


B. Lafferty wrote:
> On 7/1/2010 7:51 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:
>> B. Lafferty wrote:
>>
>>> pre-epo
>>
>> There is disagreement over what that means. There are some who
>> conveniently define that to mean "before Lemond retired".
>
> There is disagreement as to when epo use became common. It has nothing
> to do with when Lemond retired.

There is, to Lemond fanboys.

Step 1: Pretend like EPO wasn't available.
Step 2: Pretend like blood doping doesn't count.
Step 3: Pretend like nothing else is performance enhancing, either.
Step 4: Call anyone who disagrees names.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: TdF Stage 3 - Risk to Contador?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/17379c8d766113ba?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 1 2010 6:52 pm
From: Andre


On Jun 30, 6:03 pm, --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
> On Jun 30, 11:30 am, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/97th-tour-de-france-gt/stage-3
>
> > Are the cobbles a risk to Contador?
>
> This race beginning is an obvious gift-- and compliment-- to Lance
> Armstrong.
> Don't let anyone kid you, the French love him and would be ecstatic to
> see him win Number Eight, a record that would be a long time in the
> equalling, including a second miraculous comeback story.
> --D-y

The French detest Lance.


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[socialactionfoundationforequity:3099 ICYO-Youth Information United Nations Population Award 2010 to AFPPD.

Buzz It
--- On Thu, 1/7/10, ICYOIndia <icyoindia@gmail.com> wrote:

From: ICYOIndia <icyoindia@gmail.com>
Subject: ICYO-Youth Information United Nations Population Award 2010 to AFPPD.
To: youthinformation@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, 1 July, 2010, 22:38

ICYO- Youth Information                                      

(E-Newsletter from network of youth organizations in India)
==========================================================
ICYO - Platform of 389 Youth Organizations in India. 
ICYO - India's largest network of urban and rural youth.

==========================================================

United Nations Recognized the AFPPD work by Facilitating

with UN Population Award

 

Asian Parliamentarians Forum Awarded UN Population PrizeThe 2010 United Nations Population Awards were presented on June 3 at the United Nations Headquarters in New York, and received by Mr. Yasuo Fukuda, Chairman of the Asian Forum of Parliamentarians on Population and Development (AFPPD) and Mr. William Henry Gates, Sr. on behalf of his son and daughter-in-law.

 

In this award giving ceremony, Mr. Yasuo Fukuda, Chairman of the AFPPD and a former Prime Minister of Japan underlined the importance of population issues, saying that they are "not just simply a matter of statistics" but rather, "each statistic is a number that represents an individual person's life."

 

Text Box:   During the Award Ceremony, from left to right: Mr Yasuo Fakuda, Chairman, AFPPD, Mr William Henry Gates, S., Ms Asha Rose-Miiro, Deputy Secretary General, UN and Ms. Thoraya A Obaid, Executive Director, UNFPA

Speaking on behalf of United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, Deputy Secretary General Asha-Rose Migiro mentioned that AFPPD has successfully pushed for the introduction of legislation on the elimination of violence against women and on the full spectrum of population issue so it is a worthy recipient of this award. She also described Bill and Melinda Gates as individuals who "have stirred the minds and hearts of others in positions of power to invest in new ways to help the poor and vulnerable". She went on to say, "they have demonstrated an exemplary humility about their life-changing contributions."

 

Bill and Melinda announced support to AFPPD

 

Underscoring these words, Mr. Gates announced that, "Bill and Melinda have decided that the foundation will match the prize money for this award and make a grant for the total amount to the Asian Forum of Parliamentarians on Population and Development to help it continue the outstanding work for which it has been recognized today."

 

"The AFPPD, since last 29 years, has been conducting several innovative programs to mobilize parliamentarians from not only Asia Pacific region but around the world also," said Mr. Shiv Khare, Executive Director of AFPPD.

-------------------------------------------

Youth Information is published by
Indian Committee of Youth Organizations (ICYO)
194-A, Arjun Nagar, Safdarjang Enclave
New Delhi 110029, India
Phone: 91 9811729093  / 91 11 26183978 Fax 91 11 26198423
Email: icyoindia@gmail.com / icyo@icyo-india.org
Web:  www.icyo.in / www.icyo-india.org
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Indian Committee of Youth Organizations (ICYO) is a registered non-profit, non-governmental network organization, committed in developing areas of mutual cooperation and understanding among different youth voluntary agencies, youth groups, clubs and individuals working in the field of youth welfare in India. 

ICYO functions as an umbrella organization of youth NGOs in India. It's family consists of
over 389 organizations spread in 124 districts of 26 states from different corners of India.

Our goal:
To improve and extend the youth work and services through Youth Organizations;
To enhance and demonstrate youth work in the society;
To promote effective youth programmme;
To organize network of civil society organizations working towards the development of youth work;
To organize seminars, conferences, workshops, trainings;
To maintain international relation with organizations promoting young people in their programme and activities

Affiliation
Consultative (Roster) Status with ECOSOC, United Nations;
Consultative Status with Commission on Sustainable Development;
Full Member of World Assembly of Youth (WAY); Asian Youth Council (AYC);
Member of CRIN;
Member of South Asia Youth Environment Network (SAYEN);
Affiliate with ECPAT International, Thailand;
Indian Partner of AIDS Care Watch Campaign;
Working relation with Indian Association of Parliamentarians (IAPPD);
Working relation with International Medical Parliamentarians Organizations (IMPO);
Working relation with Asian Forum of Parliamentarians on Population and Development (AFPPD).

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