Sunday, July 4, 2010

[socialactionfoundationforequity:3147 Apple Service Project India empowering small farmers in uttrakhand & Himachal

Buzz It
The project aim to form joint ventures of socialy concerned investor
and farmer trusts.

So far six farmer. limited companies has set up. This project
selected for E-India award under ICT enabled agriculture Links on
web:

http://www.eindia.net.in/2010/awards/index.asp


Read More about the theme at:


http://www.thebetterindia.com/834/the-apple-project/

Invest in profitable agro-business ventures – set up farmer-owned
businesses, based on professional feasibility analysis and business
plans.
Farmers: equal business partners – farmers are not merely
'beneficiaries' or 'the target group', instead they are an equal
business partner of the private business partner/investor
Loan, no free money – the investment required is brought in by a
private business partner, driven by its social corporate
responsibility, rather than by its profit seeking objectives, but is
to be repaid to sustain the model.
Farmer ownership – as repayments are made on the investments, the
economic ownership of the company is automatically transferred to the
farmer groups.
Continued strategic guidance by professional/business partners –
whereas farmers are to gain 100% economic ownership over the business,
and they are to be represented in the governing body (Board of
Directors), the majority of the BoD will remain professional or
business partners, to ensure that the long-term interest of the
company and continued strategic guidance is secured.
Invest, but also plough back profits – While investing in higher value-
addition processing, the model is intended to plough back part of the
profits to the farmers and into new economic activities in the
region.
Collective action to save time, energy & money
Improve bargaining position
Take out intermediaries – e.g. the middlemen or informal lenders.
Overcome difficulties in handling & logistics – e.g. inaccessibility
and transportation, especially in undulating terrains, leading to
excessive wastage. Collectively, the farmers can more easily organize
solutions or obtain external support (e.g. from (local) government or
private sector

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "SAFE - Social Action Foundation for Equity" group.
To post to this group, send email to
socialactionfoundationforequity@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
socialactionfoundationforequity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.co.in/group/socialactionfoundationforequity?hl=en?hl=en-GB

rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

Buzz It
rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Rumors of Injunction Being Sought Against WSJ - 6 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5632ccf2600e2d76?hl=en
* Does Lemond Know Something? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2bb7ac6faff68d1c?hl=en
* Tour de France, stage 1 summary - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2e6146031b61b90c?hl=en
* Other Sporting Scandals - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4313c1e0e978485e?hl=en
* Vayer again - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5e9bb96d4d42ed31?hl=en
* Wow . . . . - 9 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/97933e46dd87e8bb?hl=en
* Could Landis be telling the truth? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/520bd49f83fc2796?hl=en
* TdF live radio - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3cb2bacfe4194f41?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rumors of Injunction Being Sought Against WSJ
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5632ccf2600e2d76?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 1:03 pm
From: DA74


On Jul 4, 12:57 pm, "Fred Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>
> news:WMWdnVJnIp0v4K3RnZ2dnUVZ_vednZ2d@giganews.com...
> : On 7/3/2010 9:02 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:
> : > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> : >
> : >> She is not being entirely truthful saying that they're "happy" to
> : >> comply with criminal search warrants etc.
> : >
> : > The poor woman showed up at a social event and had a wild-eyed Lafferty
> : > accuse her of working for a company that's helping Lance Armstrong
> : > obstruct justice. She responded that no, Ebay saves all information
> : > about everything forever and gladly shares it with the authorities who
> : > are investigating Lance Armstrong. What would you do in her place?
> : >
> : > The other possibility is that this was another of Brian's imaginary
> : > friends. You know, the ones that get manufactured whenever he needs
> : > someone to agree with him.
> :
> : No Fred.  She's a friend and we had a very pleasant conversation.  She
> : said that eBay receives criminal subpoenas and search warrants quite
> : frequently and is "happy" to comply.  Given the nature of computers, it
> : is not at all difficult to comply with most.  The data is readily
> : available, searchable and easily produced.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Again, all teams sell their equipment either during or after the season.
> None
> of the proceeds ever goes back to the sponsors. Sometimes the riders
> get the money, sometimes management, sometimes the mechanics, etc.
> etc.
>
> Selling off sponsor equipment can be a big part of a $12k dreamer's
> livelihood.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.


This is a DA74 Certified correct assessment.


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 1:23 pm
From: Betty


DA74 wrote:
> I even posted my old address here many years ago for Papaihole but he
> never showed up.

You probably forgot to wear purple. Papai only fought purple people.


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 1:24 pm
From: Betty


DA74 wrote:
> Answer my question and I'll email you a picture of Magilla naked (seriously).

With or without a ball patch ?


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 5:28 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"


"Fred Gringioni" <soulinthemachine@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:i0qp3j$bie$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "DA74" <davidastor74@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3a15a798-9de6-4f13-9af8-339ad8d5a957@m17g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
>
> :: Oh, you're saying it's the word of god because it's coming from a
> Trek
> :: dealer, I see. My bad. Well then, it shouldn't be that difficult
> for
> :: Big Jabowsky to give me the name of just one mechanic who has been
> :: gifted a stable of bikes to sell at the end of the year to augment
> his
> :: salary then, right?
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> The revenue from the sales of bikes usually gets spread around.
> Typically,
> everyone gets a little piece of the pie, but it varies from team to
> team.
>
> I've never heard of a mechanic getting all of it. A mechanic is too
> low on
> the totem pole. If one person was to get it all, it'd have to be a
> greedy
> team manager.
>
> Regardless, I have a really hard time seeing a federal case coming out
> of
> that sort of thing, especially with the alleged actions being outside
> the
> statute of limitations.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

Mechanics don't get all of it. The various riders sell their own
"excess" stuff, no secret there. And the mechanic sells "leftover" stuff
at the end of the year. People approach mechanics of various teams at
the TdF; whether sales happen there or later I do not know. But I've
watched this at US Postal, Astana prior to Bruyneel, and some time ago I
was looking into various product that I happen to sell and was told by
people in a position to know such things that this was normal and part
of the team mechanic's income.

Of course, we're now looking at some more pieces of a very intricate
puzzle falling into place. Who actually orchestrated the sale of the
bikes in question, now referenced by Floyd Landis and confirmed by Trek?
That happens to be the time period in question for the stuff I came
across first-hand. Was the explanation at the time correct (that this
was something done by the mechanics?). I do not know. I've been about as
transparent on this as I can.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 5:35 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"


"DA74" <davidastor74@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:adc58991-8abd-40ed-89ea-92ae46735a1c@e29g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 3, 10:26 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> "DA74" <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > >> Traditionally, team equipment is sold off via the mechanic, and
> > > >> regarded
> > > >> as part of his income.


> > > > Are you saying that team mechanics regularly sell off 60 new
> > > > team
> > > > issue
> > > > bicycles to supplement their income? If so, wouldn't we all love
> > > > one of
> > > > those jobs? ;-)


> > > Yes, you want that job. They can do quite well. Not 60 bikes well,
> > > of
> > > course, but the heirarchy is such that there's no way something
> > > like
> > > that
> > > is
> > > going to happen without the team mechanic knowing about it. It's
> > > the
> > > sort
> > > of
> > > thing you wouldn't want him to discover on his own, because
> > > basically
> > > you'd
> > > be intruding on his turf without permission. Plus he's the guy who
> > > knows
> > > how
> > > best to sell the merchandise and get the best price for it. Please
> > > understand this is long-standing tradition that has nothing to do
> > > with US
> > > Postal specifically. It's the way they *all* operate. So yes, the
> > > scale is
> > > immense, but it *is* a matter of scale that's involved here, not
> > > something
> > > new. I'm sure people are connecting the dots; what I know about
> > > how
> > > this
> > > works isn't secret.
>
> > > --Mike Jacoubowsky
> > > Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> > > Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > =====
> > Big Jabowsky,
> > You are so fucking full of shit it is comical. That you can sit
> > there
> > and say you know how "they *all* operate" is beyond ridiculous. That
> > mechanics sell the bikes and keep the proceeds as income is not a
> > "long standing tradition" and the only "turf" the mechanic owns is
> > the
> > maintenance of the bikes which are owned by the team. Yeah, they
> > know
> > what happens with the bike but in all instances the team owns the
> > bikes and they are disposed of in many, many ways. Most bike
> > manufacturers also dictate how they are to be disposed of as well.
>
> > Since "what you know about this isn't a secret" I defy you to name
> > one
> > single mechanic who kept the proceeds of bike sales at the end of
> > the
> > season.
> > =====
>
> > You're kidding right?
>
> ======
> Did you see a cute little emoticon? No. I called bullshit and you're
> stalling.
> =====
>
> Let me get this straight. You don't have the balls to post with your
> real name, and you're calling me on not outing, by name, team
> mechanics
> that sell "excess" sponsor-supplied product.
>
> Yep. I'm the one with the credibility issue here.
>
==========
I called bullshit and you're still stalling.

But I'll play along: David C. Astor, 1974. Sunnyvale, CA. My favorite
color is Slipstream Argyle. Answer my question and I'll email you a
picture of Magilla naked (seriously).

Alright now it's your turn.

Okay okay, I'll let you off the hook a little since you're obviously
backed in a corner. Just name a team and the year and I'll do my own
factchecking. You don't have to name the mechanic. That should be
super easy for you.

Let me know,
Combatant DA74
===========

I've given enough information in a reply to "Fred Gringioni" for you to
connect the dots (and after your threat regarding that picture, that's
as much as you'll ever get. Even if I thought there was really good
reason. There could never be a good-enough reason to risk that.) And
yeah, stupid of me to not look at your header. My bad, you're not one of
the anonymous folk, and you get my respect for that.

1974 is a birth date or when you raced? I don't recall seeing your name
back in the day.

Thanks-

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 7:13 pm
From: Andre Jute


On Jul 2, 11:09 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> Unlikely given the distaste the US courts have for prior restraint.http://road.cc/content/news/19616-wall-street-journal-landis-article-...

These allegations have been flying around for years. Everyone,
including cyclists, take doping in racing for granted; it is almost as
if you guys want your heroes to be bad.

But after all these years, where is the physical evidence?
Photographs? These guys are some of the most photographed athletes on
earth. And if the paparazzi fail, everyone has a camera on his phone,
including the other alleged dopers. Yet not one photograph of doping
has emerged.

Consistent semi-official doping involving team doctors, if it ever
happened, would soon have come to seem so normal, so much condoned and
overlooked that legality and punishment would slip into the back of
everyone's mind. Yet, after all these years, not a single invoice has
appeared where someone bought the chemicals in bulk. How can there be
no paperwork, the huge amount of dope that must have been required if
the position is as bad as everyone smacks their lips over salaciously?

If the top level of the sport is riddled with drugs, how come so few
people are being caught? Cycling must now be the most invigilated
sport in the world for drugs, and they haven't caught dozens of
people. There must be a reason for that, don't you think?

What have we got here? One actual cheat trying for moral equivalence?
One wonders what the publicity is worth to Landis.

Andre Jute
Guilt by association may be all right for the French, who don't know
any better, but it is not the American Way

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Does Lemond Know Something?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2bb7ac6faff68d1c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 1:19 pm
From: Betty


Fred Gringioni wrote:
> Magilla crashed today in stage 1.

Everyone and their dog crashed today.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tour de France, stage 1 summary
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2e6146031b61b90c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 1:28 pm
From: Betty


Bob Martin wrote:
>
> Stage 1 : Jul 4, Rotterdam - Brussels, 223.5 km

You need to add a most crashes section. I reckon David Millar would be
right up there.


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 1:47 pm
From: Uncle Dave


On Jul 4, 9:28 pm, Betty <n...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> Bob Martin wrote:
>
> > Stage 1 : Jul 4, Rotterdam - Brussels, 223.5 km                      
>
> You need to add a most crashes section. I reckon David Millar would be
> right up there.

It makes you proud to be British.

UD


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 2:14 pm
From: Betty


Bob Martin wrote:
>>> Stage 1 : Jul 4, Rotterdam - Brussels, 223.5 km

Betty wrote:
>> You need to add a most crashes section. I reckon David Millar would be
>> right up there.

Uncle Dave wrote:
> It makes you proud to be British.

Well you did score a goal (or 2) against Die Mannschaft which is more
than can be said for the Argentineans.


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 4:37 pm
From: "Fred Gringioni"

"Uncle Dave" <davidcovey@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:f503a88b-c42d-474d-95a9-4cb89634ff3e@e5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...


:: It makes you proud to be British.


Dumbass -

You've got Chris Boardman to be proud of too. That man was a bike handling
WIZARD.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Other Sporting Scandals
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4313c1e0e978485e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 2:07 pm
From: DirtRoadie


http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 2:14 pm
From: Betty


DirtRoadie wrote:
> http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/

At last. A sport for FMs.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Vayer again
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5e9bb96d4d42ed31?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 2:10 pm
From: "Steve Freides"


Fred Gringioni wrote:
> "Betty" <none@mailinator.com> wrote in message
> news:mi06g7-cr3.ln1@donaldm.homeip.net...
>> Steve Freides wrote:
>>> They used to think the Earth was flat.
>>
>> It isn't ?
>>
>> Sarah 'vote for a flat earth in 2012' Palin
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> I actually saw something Palin said that made sense.
>
> She wanted to stop active enforcement of possession of marijuana.
> Said it was a waste of limited government resources.
>
> I couldn't believe it. I'll bet she may get stoned occasionally.

Occasionally isn't enough to explain what she says - must be something
she does a lot.

-S-

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wow . . . .
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/97933e46dd87e8bb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 2:15 pm
From: Scott


On Jul 4, 10:39 am, thirty-six <thirty-...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> On 4 July, 17:36, thirty-six <thirty-...@live.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > On 4 July, 17:31, thirty-six <thirty-...@live.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > On 4 July, 16:52, "Fred Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > That was the craziest series of crashes ever. I'd like to see the helicopter
> > > > view of the one that completely blocked the road.
>
> > > > And why did Cav go straight on that right hand turn?
>
> > > Rumour was spread there would be a motor check.
>
> > What would you do if you thought the Gestapo was policing Brussels and
> > you had an illegal motorbike?
>
> Or how about, how does a flyweight sprinter ride faster than a
> pursuiter with a similar cadence, huh?

Higher gear??


== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 2:20 pm
From: Scott


On Jul 4, 9:52 am, "Fred Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> That was the craziest series of crashes ever. I'd like to see the helicopter
> view of the one that completely blocked the road.
>
> And why did Cav go straight on that right hand turn?

Simple. Panic (i.e. unplanned) application of too much front brake w/
out corresponding application of increased lean/force on the bars, and
the natural tendency of a bike is to stand up and go straight. It's a
function of steering geometry. Put on the front brake too hard in the
middle of a turn and the bike will naturally right itself. The higher
the trail for a given bike, the more likely you'll see the
phenomenon.

My guess is he realized he was coming in too hot, or someone moved
over on him a bit, and he grabbed the brake a little too hard.
Could've happened to anyone.


== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 2:58 pm
From: Michael Press


In article
<25c7070b-f23c-4ab6-9966-b603390ca4d1@d16g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Andre <oradea71@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jul 4, 11:52 am, "Fred Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > That was the craziest series of crashes ever. I'd like to see the helicopter
> > view of the one that completely blocked the road.
> >
> > And why did Cav go straight on that right hand turn?
>
> Cav is last year's Boonen at the Tour

I think they miss George.
He takes flak here; but
knows how to control a peloton:
get out in front and make them work.
Don't take "no" for an answer.

--
Michael Press


== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:02 pm
From: thirty-six


On 4 July, 22:15, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> > Or how about, how does a flyweight sprinter ride faster than a
> > pursuiter with a similar cadence, huh?
>
> Higher gear??

I dont see it being physically possible. The muscle bulk is similar
yet the speed is greater. This is only really possible using a higher
cadence. If the forces generated are completely by the legs for
someone such as M 2av3nd!sh, then the rider is at high risk of tendon
injury to make the accelerations shown. There is just no way that
someone could put in absolute maximal short burst winning efforts at
130rpm (exactly) day after day without succumbing to injury.

I find his 'ability' highly suspect. Let's see what progresses with
the Tour now they have announced they will be checking for motorised
assistance in the bikes. I suspect we wont be seeing many wins from
the man from the isle.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 4:34 pm
From: "Fred Gringioni"

"Michael Press" <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:rubrum-BB6901.14585604072010@news.albasani.net...
: In article
: <25c7070b-f23c-4ab6-9966-b603390ca4d1@d16g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
: Andre <oradea71@gmail.com> wrote:
:
: > On Jul 4, 11:52 am, "Fred Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
: > wrote:
: > > That was the craziest series of crashes ever. I'd like to see the
helicopter
: > > view of the one that completely blocked the road.
: > >
: > > And why did Cav go straight on that right hand turn?
: >
: > Cav is last year's Boonen at the Tour
:
: I think they miss George.
: He takes flak here; but
: knows how to control a peloton:
: get out in front and make them work.


Dumbass -

George gets flak for his lack of killer instinct when it comes to winning.

I can't recall anyone ever saying he didn't know how to work. He's good at
that, he's good at leading out.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 4:39 pm
From: "Fred Gringioni"

"Scott" <hendricks_scott@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10e0e9d8-85ca-48cd-8cd6-3c71bb959755@a30g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 4, 9:52 am, "Fred Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> That was the craziest series of crashes ever. I'd like to see the
> helicopter
> view of the one that completely blocked the road.
>
> And why did Cav go straight on that right hand turn?

::Simple. Panic (i.e. unplanned) application of too much front brake w/
::out corresponding application of increased lean/force on the bars, and
::the natural tendency of a bike is to stand up and go straight. It's a
::function of steering geometry. Put on the front brake too hard in the
::middle of a turn and the bike will naturally right itself. The higher
::the trail for a given bike, the more likely you'll see the
::phenomenon.

Dumbass -

Back when I raced I probably participated in ~500 crits (not counting
practice crits) and never experienced that. Did I not brake hard enough in
turns?

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 4:47 pm
From: "H. Fred Kveck"


In article <2d4151f1-c935-40eb-9f73-829296a65eeb@q12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
thirty-six <thirty-six@live.co.uk> wrote:

> On 4 July, 22:15, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > > Or how about, how does a flyweight sprinter ride faster than a
> > > pursuiter with a similar cadence, huh?
> >
> > Higher gear??
>
> I dont see it being physically possible. The muscle bulk is similar
> yet the speed is greater. This is only really possible using a higher
> cadence. If the forces generated are completely by the legs for
> someone such as M 2av3nd!sh, then the rider is at high risk of tendon
> injury to make the accelerations shown. There is just no way that
> someone could put in absolute maximal short burst winning efforts at
> 130rpm (exactly) day after day without succumbing to injury.
>
> I find his 'ability' highly suspect. Let's see what progresses with
> the Tour now they have announced they will be checking for motorised
> assistance in the bikes. I suspect we wont be seeing many wins from
> the man from the isle.

And if, for whatever reason, he doesn't win as often, that'll be proof enough to
you that he was "motorised" in the past. What brilliant logic you have.


== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 5:05 pm
From: "K. Fred Gauss"


thirty-six wrote:
> On 4 July, 22:15, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Or how about, how does a flyweight sprinter ride faster than a
>>> pursuiter with a similar cadence, huh?
>> Higher gear??
>
> I dont see it being physically possible. The muscle bulk is similar
> yet the speed is greater. This is only really possible using a higher
> cadence. If the forces generated are completely by the legs for
> someone such as M 2av3nd!sh, then the rider is at high risk of tendon
> injury to make the accelerations shown. There is just no way that
> someone could put in absolute maximal short burst winning efforts at
> 130rpm (exactly) day after day without succumbing to injury.
>
> I find his 'ability' highly suspect. Let's see what progresses with
> the Tour now they have announced they will be checking for motorised
> assistance in the bikes. I suspect we wont be seeing many wins from
> the man from the isle.
>

Are you a French gym teacher?


== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 7:38 pm
From: Michael Press


In article <i0r5tg$oss$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
"Fred Gringioni" <soulinthemachine@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Michael Press" <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:rubrum-BB6901.14585604072010@news.albasani.net...
> : In article
> : <25c7070b-f23c-4ab6-9966-b603390ca4d1@d16g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> : Andre <oradea71@gmail.com> wrote:
> :
> : > On Jul 4, 11:52 am, "Fred Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
> : > wrote:
> : > > That was the craziest series of crashes ever. I'd like to see the
> helicopter
> : > > view of the one that completely blocked the road.
> : > >
> : > > And why did Cav go straight on that right hand turn?
> : >
> : > Cav is last year's Boonen at the Tour
> :
> : I think they miss George.
> : He takes flak here; but
> : knows how to control a peloton:
> : get out in front and make them work.
>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> George gets flak for his lack of killer instinct when it comes to winning.
>
> I can't recall anyone ever saying he didn't know how to work. He's good at
> that, he's good at leading out.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

That is what I am getting at.
He exhibits a killer instinct
when leading the charge.
Columbia misses him already.

--
Michael Press

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Could Landis be telling the truth?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/520bd49f83fc2796?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:07 pm
From: Henry


On Jul 4, 2:33 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In the WSJ article he admits using the T-patches and I think it's
> doubtful that if you're using them from time to time that you wouldn't
> use them if you needed them in a pinch (even though you know you
> shouldn't and might get caught) a regular user might think he could
> fly below radar on a one time use.  But there is the reality that THC
> (as an example) is stored in fat cells and later metabolizing of fat
> stores can result in a postive test for the chronic user.
>
> One of the worst things a chronic user can do is to exercise heavily
> before a urine test.
>
> The theory is then - if T is stored in fat and a hard stage (16 in
> this case) causes the T to become available in the system then perhaps
> Floyd is like the chronic pot smoker that fails a test weeks after he
> stopped smoking simply because he 'free'd up' some stored T.
>
> He's still a cheater, still a doper but might have been telling the
> truth.

look up pathalogical liar
he has mental health problems

==============================================================================
TOPIC: TdF live radio
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3cb2bacfe4194f41?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:09 pm
From: Henry


I'm too tight to pay for live coverage on TV. Yes, we get live tv
here :)
I've tried a few web sites for live radio feed but they seem to
realise I'm coming from New Zealand and disallow connections.
Anyone know where I can find a live radio feed (in English!)?

TIA


==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "rec.bicycles.racing"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rec.bicycles.racing+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

Medarticles USMLE example cases and answers

Buzz It
For USMLE step 1+2+3 students, I present you an amazing USMLE example
cases and answers that discus all medical issues depending on
symptoms. In this way the study becomes more easy, gives you the most
important key words to answer the USMLE cases at glance without
wasting precious time.

Chest pain case 1
http://studytogetherbetter.blogspot.com/2009/10/chest-pain-case-1.html

Chest pain case 2
http://studytogetherbetter.blogspot.com/2009/10/chest-pain-case-2.html

Chest pain case 3
http://studytogetherbetter.blogspot.com/2009/10/chest-pain-case-3.html

Chest pain case 4
http://studytogetherbetter.blogspot.com/2009/10/chest-pain-case-4.html

share this with your friends

Palpitation case 1
http://studytogetherbetter.blogspot.com/2009/12/palpitation-case-1.html

Palpitation case 2
http://studytogetherbetter.blogspot.com/2009/12/palpitation-case-2.html

Palpitation case 3
http://studytogetherbetter.blogspot.com/2009/12/palpitation-case-3.html

Palpitation case 4
http://studytogetherbetter.blogspot.com/2009/12/palpitation-case-4.html

Hypertension Case 1
http://studytogetherbetter.blogspot.com/2009/12/hypertension-case-1.html

Hypertension Case 2
http://studytogetherbetter.blogspot.com/2009/12/hypertension-case-2.html

Hypertension Case 3
http://studytogetherbetter.blogspot.com/2009/12/hypertension-case-3.html

Hypertension Case 4
http://studytogetherbetter.blogspot.com/2009/12/hypertension-case-4.html


Hypotension case 1
http://studytogetherbetter.blogspot.com/2009/12/hypotension-case-1.html

Hypotension case 2
http://studytogetherbetter.blogspot.com/2009/12/hypotension-case-2.html

Hypotension case 3
http://studytogetherbetter.blogspot.com/2009/12/hypotension-case-3.html

Hypotension case 4
http://studytogetherbetter.blogspot.com/2009/12/hypotension-case-4.html

Hypotension case 5
http://studytogetherbetter.blogspot.com/2009/12/hypotension-case-5.html

--
You can edit your Group Email settings by visiting the following link.

http://groups.google.com/group/medarticles/subscribe

You can choose abridged email or digest email so that you will receive only one email per day.

alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots - 25 new messages in 3 topics - digest

Buzz It
alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots?hl=en

alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Steelers are in a fix now - 16 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots/t/6d3d138c44c12ca9?hl=en
* asshole, 30 yrs from now $7 a gal gas WILL BE CHEAP - 8 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots/t/a65082e69b099dde?hl=en
* OT July 4th - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots/t/314962375fd8aec5?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Steelers are in a fix now
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots/t/6d3d138c44c12ca9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 10:16 am
From: "RickyBobby"

>>>
>>
>>The President does give a nice speech. I give him high marks for that.
>>And
>>he still has three years to go to accomplish something. If he can get our
>>troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan he will have done a good job. And then
>>we can elect him again.
>>
> Another satisfied Obammy welfare recipient chimes in.

Welfare recipient! That is funny.

I am just sort of an optimist and hope for the best. President Obama still
has three years for the economy to turn around and give up on fighting wars
over in Iraq and Afghanistan. On the surface I do not see why we fight wars
against countries that do not have a military. Do we expect them to attack
America with their Navies and Air Forces that do not exist? Would that be
anything like those weapons of mass destruction that we never could find in
Iraq in the first place?

== 2 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 10:19 am
From: "RickyBobby"


"* US *" <DumpObama@America.> wrote in message
news:4c2d01c5.641267343@news.eternal-september.org...
> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:49:15 -0700, Salad <salad@oilandvinegar.com>
> wrote:
>
>>RickyBobby wrote:
>>
>>>> There is no bigger failure than the kenyan fraud named Soetoro,
>>>> Obama, whatever you want to call the jerk. He's so dumb that a
>>>> white college boy has to tell him what to say using a
>>>> teleprompter.
>>>>
>>
>>It took a black man to show Republicans that a teleprompter can be an
>>effective tool in politics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO46ii3W07U.
>
> Damn shame that he's not qualified to manage anything, let alone a
> superpower.

A Senator is qualified to run for President.

== 3 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 10:47 am
From: DumpObama@America. (ObamaNation=Abomination)

If President George W. Bush had been the first President that always
needed TelePrompters installed to be able to get through a Press
Conference, would you have laughed and said this is proof of how
inarticulate he is speaking on his own and is really controlled by
smarter men behind the scenes?

If George W. Bush had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to take
Laura Bush on a 'Date' in NYC, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had devalued your retirement plan's investment in GM
stock by 90% and given the UAW unions a Majority Stake in GM and
Chrysler, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had made a joke at the expense of the Special
Olympics kids, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had given Britain's Prime Minister Gordon Brown a
set of cheap incorrectly formatted DVDs, when Gordon Brown had given
him a thoughtful and historically significant gift, would you have
approved?

If George W. Bush had given the Queen of England a little iPod
containing videos of his political speeches, would you have thought
this embarrassingly narcissistic and tacky?

If George W. Bush had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, the Emperor
of Japan and the Premier of Communist China would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had visited Austria and made reference to the
non-existent "Austrian Language," would you have brushed it off as a
minor slipup?

If George W. Bush had filled his Cabinet and circle of advisers with
people who cheat on their Income Taxes, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had been so Spanish illiterate as to refer to "Cinco
de Cuatro" in front of the Mexican Ambassador when it was the 5th of
May (Cinco de Mayo), and continued to flub it when he tried again,
would you have winced in embarrassment?

If George W. Bush had misspelled the word "advice" would you have
hammered him for it for years like Dan Quayle and "potatoe" as proof
of what a dunce he is?

If George W. Bush had burned over 9,000 gallons of jet fuel to go
plant a single tree on Earth Day, would you have concluded he's a
hypocrite?

If George W. Bush's administration had okayed Air Force One buzzing
low over millions of people followed by jet fighters in downtown
Manhattan causing widespread panic, would you have wondered whether
they actually understand what happened on 9-11?

If George W. Bush had failed to send Relief Aid to flood victims
throughout the Midwest with more people killed or made homeless than
in New Orleans after Katrina, would you want it made into a major
ongoing political issue with claims of Racism and incompetence?

If George W. Bush had created high paid positions for dozens of
"Czars" who report directly to him, bypassing the House and Senate and
controlling much of what is happening to America, would you have
approved?

If George W. Bush had ordered the firing of the CEO of a major
corporation, even though he had no constitutional authority to do so,
would you have approved?

If George W Bush had proposed to DOUBLE the National Debt, which had
taken more than two Centuries to accumulate, in one year, would you
have approved?

If George W. Bush had then proposed to DOUBLE the National Debt AGAIN
within 10 years, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had spent more than All the Presidents combined
since George Washington, would you have approved?
So, tell me again, what is it about Barack Hussein Obama that makes
him so brilliant and impressive? Can't think of anything?


On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 10:16:13 -0700, "RickyBobby" <nascar42@cox.net>
wrote:

>
>
>
>>>>
>>>
>>>The President does give a nice speech. I give him high marks for that.
>>>And
>>>he still has three years to go to accomplish something. If he can get our
>>>troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan he will have done a good job. And then
>>>we can elect him again.
>>>
>> Another satisfied Obammy welfare recipient chimes in.
>
>Welfare recipient! That is funny.
>
>I am just sort of an optimist and hope for the best. President Obama still
>has three years for the economy to turn around and give up on fighting wars
>over in Iraq and Afghanistan. On the surface I do not see why we fight wars
>against countries that do not have a military. Do we expect them to attack
>America with their Navies and Air Forces that do not exist? Would that be
>anything like those weapons of mass destruction that we never could find in
>Iraq in the first place?
>
>
>

== 4 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 10:48 am
From: DumpObama@America. (ObamaNation=Abomination)


On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 10:19:02 -0700, "RickyBobby" <nascar42@cox.net>
wrote:

>
>
>"* US *" <DumpObama@America.> wrote in message
>news:4c2d01c5.641267343@news.eternal-september.org...
>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:49:15 -0700, Salad <salad@oilandvinegar.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>RickyBobby wrote:
>>>
>>>>> There is no bigger failure than the kenyan fraud named Soetoro,
>>>>> Obama, whatever you want to call the jerk. He's so dumb that a
>>>>> white college boy has to tell him what to say using a
>>>>> teleprompter.
>>>>>
>>>
>>>It took a black man to show Republicans that a teleprompter can be an
>>>effective tool in politics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO46ii3W07U.
>>
>> Damn shame that he's not qualified to manage anything, let alone a
>> superpower.
>
>A Senator is qualified to run for President.
>
Yup.

Even an incompetent one ... as we have seen.


== 5 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:21 pm
From: "Brian Allen"


> If President George W. Bush had been the first President that always
> needed TelePrompters installed to be able to get through a Press
> Conference, would you have laughed and said this is proof of how
> inarticulate he is speaking on his own and is really controlled by
> smarter men behind the scenes?

If Bush had an earphone in with somebody speaking the words to him, he
couldn't have articulated himself. He had zero communication skills.

> If George W. Bush had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to take
> Laura Bush on a 'Date' in NYC, would you have approved?

As opposed to spending 9 of his first 12 months in office playing golf?
Please.

> If George W. Bush had devalued your retirement plan's investment in GM
> stock by 90% and given the UAW unions a Majority Stake in GM and
> Chrysler, would you have approved?

Anybody that had retirement plans hinging on Detroit needed a better
investment agent.

> If George W. Bush had made a joke at the expense of the Special
> Olympics kids, would you have approved?

I know, because who wants to come across as an actual human being on a
late-night talk show? Only people trying to bash the guy even noticed it.
It was a typical comment that any one of us have made 1000 times in our
lives.

> If George W. Bush had given Britain's Prime Minister Gordon Brown a
> set of cheap incorrectly formatted DVDs, when Gordon Brown had given
> him a thoughtful and historically significant gift, would you have
> approved?

You're reaching. You're really bashing the guy for being a poor gift-giver?
Seriously?

> If George W. Bush had given the Queen of England a little iPod
> containing videos of his political speeches, would you have thought
> this embarrassingly narcissistic and tacky?

Again with the gift-giving bashing. Next you'll be pissed because he gave
Aunt Sally a set of fridge magnets for Chrismas when he was five.

> If George W. Bush had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, the Emperor
> of Japan and the Premier of Communist China would you have approved?

Right, because who wants to treat foreign leaders with respect? We're
Americans, damn it! They should be shining our shoes!

> If George W. Bush had visited Austria and made reference to the
> non-existent "Austrian Language," would you have brushed it off as a
> minor slipup?

Yup. Now if one of them had thrown a shoe at him, then...


== 6 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:22 pm
From: "Brian Allen"


> Sending aid is not the same as having troops on the ground. Seem to
> recall that JFK sent special forces first as "advisors."

But it does show that the administration was invested in the country. And
yes, JFK sent the first American advisors in-country.


== 7 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:27 pm
From: DumpObama@America. (ObamaNation=Abomination)

Why Obamanomics Has Failed: Uncertainty about future taxes and
regulations is enemy No. 1 of economic growth.

The administration's stimulus program has failed. Growth is slow and
unemployment remains high. The president, his friends and advisers
talk endlessly about the circumstances they inherited as a way of
avoiding responsibility for the 18 months for which they are
responsible.

But they want new stimulus measures—which is convincing evidence that
they too recognize that the earlier measures failed. And so the U.S.
was odd-man out at the G-20 meeting over the weekend, continuing to
call for more government spending in the face of European resistance.
The contrast with President Reagan's antirecession and pro-growth
measures in 1981 is striking. Reagan reduced marginal and corporate
tax rates and slowed the growth of nondefense spending. Recovery began
about a year later. After 18 months, the economy grew more than 9% and
it continued to expand above trend rates.

Two overarching reasons explain the failure of Obamanomics. First,
administration economists and their outside supporters neglected the
longer-term costs and consequences of their actions. Second, the
administration and Congress have through their deeds and words
heightened uncertainty about the economic future. High uncertainty is
the enemy of investment and growth.

Most of the earlier spending was a very short-term response to
long-term problems. One piece financed temporary tax cuts. This was a
mistake, and ignores the role of expectations in the economy. Economic
theory predicts that temporary tax cuts have little effect on
spending. Unless tax cuts are expected to last, consumers save the
proceeds and pay down debt. Experience with past temporary tax
reductions, as in the Carter and first Bush presidencies, confirms
this outcome.

Another large part of the stimulus went to relieve state and local
governments of their budget deficits. Transferring a deficit from the
state to the federal government changes very little. Some teachers and
police got an additional year of employment, but their gain is
temporary. Any benefits to them must be balanced against the negative
effect of the increased public debt and the temporary nature of the
transfer.

The Obama economic team ignored past history. The two most successful
fiscal stimulus programs since World War II—under Kennedy-Johnson and
Reagan—took the form of permanent reductions in corporate and marginal
tax rates. Economist Arthur Okun, who had a major role in developing
the Kennedy-Johnson program, later analyzed the effect of individual
items. He concluded that corporate tax reduction was most effective.

Another defect of Obamanomics was that part of the increased spending
authorized by the 2009 stimulus bill was held back. Remember the
oft-repeated claim that the spending would go for "shovel ready"
projects? That didn't happen, though spending will flow more rapidly
now in an effort to lower unemployment and claim economic success
during the fall election campaign.

In his January 2010 State of the Union address, President Obama
recognized that the United States must increase exports. He was right,
but he has done little to help, either by encouraging investment to
increase productivity, or by supporting trade agreements, despite his
promise to the Koreans that he repeated in Toronto. Export earnings
are the only way to service our massive foreign borrowing. This should
be a high priority. Isn't anyone in the government thinking about the
future?

Mr. Obama has denied the cost burden on business from his health-care
program, but business is aware that it is likely to be large. How
large? That's part of the uncertainty that employers face if they hire
additional labor.

The president asks for cap and trade. That's more cost and more
uncertainty. Who will be forced to pay? What will it do to costs here
compared to foreign producers? We should not expect businesses to
invest in new, export-led growth when uncertainty about future costs
is so large.

Then there is Medicaid, the medical program for those with lower
incomes. In the past, states paid about half of the cost, and they are
responsible for 20% of the additional cost imposed by the program's
expansion. But almost all the states must balance their budgets, and
the new Medicaid spending mandated by ObamaCare comes at a time when
states face large deficits and even larger unfunded liabilities for
pensions. All this only adds to uncertainty about taxes and spending.

Other aspects of the Obama economic program are equally problematic.
The auto bailouts ran roughshod over the rule of law. Chrysler
bondholders were given short shrift in order to benefit the auto
workers union. By weakening the rule of law, the president opened the
way to great mischief and increased investors' and producers'
uncertainty. That's not the way to get more investment and employment.

Almost daily, Mr. Obama uses his rhetorical skill to castigate
businessmen who have the audacity to hope for profitable
opportunities. No president since Franklin Roosevelt has taken that
route. President Roosevelt slowed recovery in 1938-40 until the war by
creating uncertainty about his objectives. It was harmful then, and
it's harmful now.

In 1980, I had the privilege of advising Prime Minister Margaret
Thatcher to ignore the demands of 360 British economists who made the
outrageous claim that Britain would never (yes, never) recover from
her decision to reduce government spending during a severe recession.
They wanted more spending. She responded with a speech promising to
stay with her tight budget. She kept a sustained focus on long-term
problems. Expectations about the economy's future improved, and the
recovery soon began.

That's what the U.S. needs now. Not major cuts in current spending,
but a credible plan showing that authorities will not wait for a
fiscal crisis but begin to act prudently and continue until deficits
disappear, and the debt is below 60% of GDP. Rep. Paul Ryan (R.,
Wisc.) offered a plan, but the administration and Congress ignored it.

The country does not need more of the same. Successful leaders give
the public reason to believe that they have a long-term program to
bring a better tomorrow. Let's plan our way out of our explosive
deficits and our hesitant and jobless recovery by reducing uncertainty
and encouraging growth.

On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 18:21:20 -0400, "Brian Allen" <blah@blah.com>
wrote:

>> If President George W. Bush had been the first President that always
>> needed TelePrompters installed to be able to get through a Press
>> Conference, would you have laughed and said this is proof of how
>> inarticulate he is speaking on his own and is really controlled by
>> smarter men behind the scenes?
>
>If Bush had an earphone in with somebody speaking the words to him, he
>couldn't have articulated himself. He had zero communication skills.
>
>> If George W. Bush had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to take
>> Laura Bush on a 'Date' in NYC, would you have approved?
>
>As opposed to spending 9 of his first 12 months in office playing golf?
>Please.
>
>> If George W. Bush had devalued your retirement plan's investment in GM
>> stock by 90% and given the UAW unions a Majority Stake in GM and
>> Chrysler, would you have approved?
>
>Anybody that had retirement plans hinging on Detroit needed a better
>investment agent.
>
>> If George W. Bush had made a joke at the expense of the Special
>> Olympics kids, would you have approved?
>
>I know, because who wants to come across as an actual human being on a
>late-night talk show? Only people trying to bash the guy even noticed it.
>It was a typical comment that any one of us have made 1000 times in our
>lives.
>
>> If George W. Bush had given Britain's Prime Minister Gordon Brown a
>> set of cheap incorrectly formatted DVDs, when Gordon Brown had given
>> him a thoughtful and historically significant gift, would you have
>> approved?
>
>You're reaching. You're really bashing the guy for being a poor gift-giver?
>Seriously?
>
>> If George W. Bush had given the Queen of England a little iPod
>> containing videos of his political speeches, would you have thought
>> this embarrassingly narcissistic and tacky?
>
>Again with the gift-giving bashing. Next you'll be pissed because he gave
>Aunt Sally a set of fridge magnets for Chrismas when he was five.
>
>> If George W. Bush had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, the Emperor
>> of Japan and the Premier of Communist China would you have approved?
>
>Right, because who wants to treat foreign leaders with respect? We're
>Americans, damn it! They should be shining our shoes!
>
>> If George W. Bush had visited Austria and made reference to the
>> non-existent "Austrian Language," would you have brushed it off as a
>> minor slipup?
>
>Yup. Now if one of them had thrown a shoe at him, then...
>
>

== 8 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:26 pm
From: "Brian Allen"


> Here's a crude but humorous take on today's teaching profession:

There are a lot of truths in that. The other teachers at my school couldn't
understand why I paid off all my debt within five years of my career
beginning. Options, people, options. I can pack up and leave whenever I
damn well please, and I make sure to let anybody that tries to railroad me
know it.


== 9 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:28 pm
From: DumpObama@America. (ObamaNation=Abomination)


On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 18:22:38 -0400, "Brian Allen" <blah@blah.com>
wrote:

>> Sending aid is not the same as having troops on the ground. Seem to
>> recall that JFK sent special forces first as "advisors."
>
>But it does show that the administration was invested in the country. And
>yes, JFK sent the first American advisors in-country.
>
>
JFK's side began the aggression.


== 10 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:41 pm
From: "Brian Allen"


> Unless tax cuts are expected to last, consumers save the
> proceeds and pay down debt.

What a bitch that is! You mean I don't HAVE to owe Chase My Tail a fortune?
Fuck me I guess.


== 11 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:42 pm
From: "Brian Allen"


> JFK's side began the aggression.

By sending advisors or with the initial ground troops? VP Nixon was calling
for ground troops in 1954. It was a bi-partisan failure.


== 12 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:42 pm
From: "Brian Allen"


> Oh, I thought that you were talking about a specific segment of
> whites, i.e., rednecks. I've never seen their data isolated.

Sure you have. Check out red state data. ;-)


== 13 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:44 pm
From: DumpObama@America. (ObamaNation=Abomination)


On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 18:42:28 -0400, "Brian Allen" <blah@blah.com>
wrote:

>> JFK's side began the aggression.
>
>By sending advisors or with the initial ground troops? VP Nixon was calling
>for ground troops in 1954. It was a bi-partisan failure.
>
>
Biden says all kinds of dumb things too.

Means nuthin'.


== 14 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:52 pm
From: AnAbsoluteTurdDwelleth@WhiteHouse.gov (Way Back Jack)


On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 18:42:53 -0400, "Brian Allen" <blah@blah.com>
wrote:

>> Oh, I thought that you were talking about a specific segment of
>> whites, i.e., rednecks. I've never seen their data isolated.
>
>Sure you have. Check out red state data. ;-)
>
>
Hillbilly States down South are quite black.

Crime rates in N. Dak, Nebraska, Idaho that have large white
populations pale (by comparison no pun intended) to blue State crime
rates.


== 15 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 4:05 pm
From: "Brian Allen"


> Biden says all kinds of dumb things too.
>
> Means nuthin'.

So let me ask you a question, and I want an honest answer: has a Republican
ever made a mistake, and has a Democrat ever been successful? It's just not
as cut and dry as you seem to think it is!


== 16 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 4:07 pm
From: "Brian Allen"


> Crime rates in N. Dak, Nebraska, Idaho that have large white
> populations pale (by comparison no pun intended) to blue State crime
> rates.

Explain Huntington, West Virginia. Total white slum town in a red state.
Unhealthiest city in the country, as well.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: asshole, 30 yrs from now $7 a gal gas WILL BE CHEAP
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots/t/a65082e69b099dde?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 11:02 am
From: Larry G


On Jul 4, 12:32 pm, Dave Head <rally...@att.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 08:57:50 -0700 (PDT), Larry G
>
>
>
>
>
> <gross.la...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jul 4, 10:58 am, Dave Head <rally...@att.net> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 06:28:05 -0700 (PDT), Larry G
>
> >> <gross.la...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >re: recreation - are you talking about the Europeans who have 32hr
> >> >work weeks and take 6 weeks of vacation a year and still use 1/2 the
> >> >fuel that we do per capita?
>
> >> Yeah - I dunno how they use that time, tho. Recreation, esp.
> >> energy-intensive recreation? Remember they have good public
> >> transport, transport that we can't build because the population
> >> density here is too low to make it cheap enough for people to chooses
> >> to ride.
>
> >> >Do you think in the U.S. that the air conditioners in the South that
> >> >run 8 or 9 months a year use more energy per capita that the other
> >> >countries at the same latitude around the world?
>
> >> Yes, they use more energy. Similar-latitude people don't use that air
> >> conditioning. Is that a great way not to use energy? Want to live in
> >> Florida WITHOUT air conditioning? Me either. That's the choice that
> >> the envirowackos want us to make, tho - give up air conditioning, give
> >> up heating in northern homes. THey're idiots, of course. The south
> >> is hell without air conditioning, and the north is unlivable without
> >> some sort of home heat. We used to use other fuels. Now its
> >> electricity, gas, and oil, mostly. Take those away, and the country
> >> will be denuded of forest, because people will chop down trees and
> >> burn those.
>
> >> >Do you think the other northern countries beyond Canada use more or
> >> >less energy per capita that U.S. folks who live well south of those
> >> >Countries?
>
> >> I think they use less - You see pix of the Scandenavians with their
> >> big sweaters on all the time. Dunno what temp they keep their places,
> >> or how well insulated their houses are. Here, we could do a lot with
> >> insulation, but not as much as if we used stone to build houses, which
> >> we mostly don't. A new constructon method - insulated concrete forms
> >> - is simulating building with stone like they do in some places in
> >> Europe, but its not required, and is more expensive. Mostly, if
> >> people can't get fuel to heat and cool, they're going to be miserable
> >> and/or die prematurely.
>
> >> >I don't think there is an easy way to wiggle out of this. The facts
> >> >are troublesome things sometimes.
>
> >> Yep. But we are good at manufacturing efficiency, and are using a lot
> >> of our energy for that, too.
>
> >> >We ARE more productive but if you measure us in terms or productivity
> >> >per energy unit - we are not so good.
>
> >> Takes a lot of energy to make steel, draw wire, lots of industrial
> >> processes. We are still a big manufacturer, and will be until the
> >> income tax chases ALL the industrial jobs overseas. Hey, I was
> >> watching a TV program on possible armageddon from a EMP attack, which
> >> would blow out many large electrical transformers. The program just
> >> casually mentioned that we don't make transformers like those in this
> >> country any more. That sucks. That's the stuff we need to turn
> >> around. The income taxes are strangling our heavy industry, and we
> >> need to get rid of them. We need industries like those, and it would
> >> seem to be something that should be easy to automate - build those
> >> transformers with even bigger machines, using people in the rare
> >> places where they're required. After that, expenses should be mostly
> >> from the taxes. Yeah, you have to do some things about pollution,
> >> too, but I think that is true in Europe and even Japan now.
>
> >> I wonder if we could impose a "pollution tax" on imports from places
> >> that don't do pollution control.
>
> >> >If the rest of the world used energy at the same per capita rate that
> >> >we do - how long would the world oil supplies last ? How long would
> >> >it be before the price of gasoline went to $5 or $10 a gallon or
> >> >higher?
>
> >> Dunno. We'd likely have to shut down our heavy industry to do better
> >> right away. I don't think we want to go there.
>
> >> >Don't get me wrong - I'm not particularly sympathetic to the "we don't
> >> >like any kind of energy except solar" enviro-wackos... but OTOH -
> >> >their view that we are the most prolifigate consumers of energy in the
> >> >world by about twice as much per capita is true - right?
>
> >> I don't know how much more it is, but I think that most things we can
> >> do about it would result in immediate economic disaster. Those that
> >> wouldn't create an economic disaster, such as stopping air
> >> conditioning, would create hell on earth for a lot of people.
>
> >" The south
> >is hell without air conditioning, and the north is unlivable without
> >some sort of home heat. "
>
> >this is true around the world at those latitudes?  How can other
> >countries not only live at those latitudes using less energy but have
> >longer life expectancies than us?
>
> I believe it has been a priority to build fuel efficient everything in
> Europe from the get-go.  We, on the other hand, have historically had
> cheap energy.  Therefore, we build our places without a lot of the
> energy-saving features found overseas.  People in Medeterraean areas
> build with a lot of stone - ever go into an unheated / uncooled
> building that has no windows and is kept dark in the daytime on a hot
> day?  Its cool.  I noticed that working on some volunteer fire radios
> back in the 70's where the fire trucks were parked in a cement block
> fire station that was kept dark and didn't have windows.  Walk inside,
> it was like air conditioning.  Stuff like that.
>
> But now that energy is getting expensive, and we're also hosed
> economically, we don't have the money to do anything about our
> buildings that are energy inefficient, but we need to.
>
> >Do people at these other latitudes heat and cool 1000 square feet of
> >space per person like we do?
>
> I don't know what the size of their houses are.
>
> >If they heat/cool 1/2 the space per person that we do, does that mean
> >they use 1/2 the energy we do without dying from heat or cold but
> >instead being just as comfortable as we are?
>
> Well, means they live less pleasantly than we do, doesn't it?  If I
> have to move from my 1700 sq. ft. house right now, to something that
> is 1000 sq. ft., then I'm going to have to shed a whale of a lot of my
> posessions.  Some stuff can sit in an unheated / uncooled garage, but
> other stuff would just get sold - my garages are already pretty big,
> and making them bigger would be a bit over the top.  And 1000 sq. ft.
> for the big screen TVs, having a master bedroom, a guest bedroom, and
> a den for the ham radio station (I made the mistake of putting the ham
> station out in the garage in an intermittantly heated space - I almost
> never use it for the hassle of getting the place up or down to a
> pleasant temperature, and then everything in it is either hot or
> cold-soaked, and that's no fun either) - and that would just be a
> sucky living situation for me.
>
> I'll build a house on retirement.  I need to move somewhere close to
> things in order to attain the ages of 70, 80, 90 and not be somewhere
> out in the middle of nowhere, so if I can't drive for some reason, I
> can maybe walk, or maybe they'll be buses.  I'm 20 mlles out of town
> now, and that's no place to be for a geezer. But anyway, its going to
> be insulated concrete forms for both survivablilty (we could get a
> hurricane here in Virginia) and for energy efficiency.  Insulated
> concrete forms, and a heat pump for heat/cool, as well as tankless
> water heaters for that job, and I should be home free on paying big
> bux for energy if BHO gets away with his project to install
> cap-and-tax and multiply home electricity costs by maybe 7X.
>
> But right now, most people are hosed with respect to energy
> efficiency, and its too expensive to do something about it for them,
> too.  Gradually, people may do what I'm going to to, and build with
> insulated concrete forms or some other really high-R construction, and
> things will very gradually get better.

so we have large size homes and suvs and we cannot afford to downsize
to become more energy efficient (just by virtue of using less
energy ..not buying more energy efficient)?


== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 11:03 am
From: Larry G


On Jul 4, 12:35 pm, Otto Yamamoto <st...@yamamoto.cc> wrote:
> On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 12:14:45 -0400, Dave Head wrote:
> > envirowackos
>
> What's wrong with wanting cleanliness and efficiency?
>
> --
> Otto Yamamoto

It's clearly un-American and not our god-given destiny.


== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 11:04 am
From: clouddreamer


Dave Head wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 21:33:13 -0230, cloud dreamer
> <Climate.is.changing@much.much.2.fast> wrote:
>
>> On 7/3/2010 9:10 PM, Dave Head wrote:
>>> On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 15:12:48 -0700 (PDT), Larry G
>>> <gross.larry@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jul 3, 5:06 pm, clouddreamer<Reuse.Recy...@Reduce.now> wrote:
>>>>> Dave Head wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We could do a lot, if it wasn't for our gov't being 'round the bend on
>>>>>> a few subjects like pollution and safety. I DON'T need a 3000 lb car
>>>>>> to go from point A to point B, but my Subaru WRX is that much. And,
>>>>>> the Subaru has gotten the highest awards for safety that there are.
>>>>>> But they are tanks, compared to what is possible if we can just
>>>>>> convert to not having accidents as a strategy for safety, rather than
>>>>>> building tanks...
>>>>> But for the size of them, Subarus are very fuel efficient. My Forester
>>>>> PZEV gets under 10L/100 km (and emits less GHG than a hybrid). I know of
>>>>> a Ford Focus that can't get that gas mileage driving the same roads I do.
>>>> but a Subaru would be a gas guzzler in Europe or Japan?
>>> Sure. Because it has a gas engine, for one thing. Those guys use
>>> diesel. Why don't we use diesel? Envirowackos again. The
>>> envirowackos of 5 separate states have set pollution controls on
>>> diesel cars so high they can't be met. So, only VW and Merceedes will
>>> import diesels just to sell 'em in 45 states. Of course California is
>>> one of the pinhead envirowacko states, so not selling them there is a
>>> big deal. If it wasn't for the envirowackos, we could be driving
>>> around in cars that get the 68 mpg that some of the European diesels
>>> get.
>> The ultimate goal is to get off all gas and diesel, not substitute one
>> for another. There is only so much oil left, and climate change aside,
>> we have to start moving to alternatives now.
>
> Yeah, that's the ultimate goal. There's plenty of oil - we haven't
> even started to attempt to use the shale oil we have out west, which
> is 3X the Saudi reserve.
>
> But the real key is the electrification of transportation, which we
> can do just as soon as somebody invents the magic battery that will
> hold about 10X the amount of a Li Ion battery does now. People have
> claimed at one time or another that they've done it, but then they
> disappear, never to be heard from again apparently.
>> Common sense. Not something from an enviro-"wacko."
>
> What's wacko about the enviros is trying to shut down or failing to
> promote the production of oil and gasoline before we have the magic
> battery. They act like they have no understanding of science
> whatsoever, and believe that if they interrupt the supply of oil, that
> somehow, somewhere, the solution to this mess will spring up. It will
> not. All that will happen will be the further economic destruction of
> America as the gas prices go thru the roof, and we have no alternative
> but to pay them. We can't afford $7 a gallon gas in a country almost
> 3000 miles wide and 1500 miles high. We'll just pauperize the vast
> majority of citizens.
>
>>> And my Subaru would get WAY better mileage and be way faster if it
>>> weighed 2000 lbs instead of 3000 lbs, but it has to be built like a
>>> tank in order to survive crashes. Those are the safety nazis at work,
>>> that won't let me buy the kind of car I want to buy.
>>
>> I wrote off my Impreza a couple months ago. That "tank" rolled over and
>> I walked away without a scratch.
>
> My strategy is not to crash. I've been successful at it since 1963.
> The key is being terrified of crashing, and paying attention to
> everything. The latter was greatly enhanced by my beginnings racing a
> go-kart when I was a kid. Lose focus when racing one of those, you
> end up with someone else's wheel in your lap.


My strategy as well and helped me for 25+ years, but there's always a
time when a set of circumstances are just perfect for even the most
careful driver. Where black ice is involved, all the focus in the world
won't do squat for you.

My insurance agreed 100%.

..

--
We must change the way we live
Or the climate will do it for us.


== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 11:06 am
From: Larry G


On Jul 4, 1:01 pm, Dave Head <rally...@att.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 08:54:38 -0700 (PDT), Larry G
>
> <gross.la...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >" eo Metro? - 47 mpg.  Howzzat for an around-town car?  Try
> >finding something like that right now.  But, it was very small"
>
> Yeah, but even that butt-ugly "Smart Car" is isn't that efficient - I
> had already downloaded last year's Fuel Economy Guide from the Feds
> and here's Smart:
>
> smart fortwo convertible automatic 33/41
> smart fortwo coupe automatic 33/41
>
> Not really outstanding for what you give up in space and styling.  Why
> the hell did they make it so tall?  Why not lay the driver down and
> cut frontal area?  I just don't get it.  I might buy it if it was the
> only car on the market.
>
> >otherwise known as a world car and the most common version of personal
> >transportation .
>
> Sorry to hear that.  The rest of the world is aesthetically
> challenged, I'd say.
>
> >$7 gas and the recreation industry... hey... they have RV's in other
> >countries - they're the size and functionality of the VW Camper
> >though....
>
> And  Americans will feel abused if they have to do that, and likely
> simply NOT do it.  I sure wouldn't go anywhere long distance in a VW
> camper of old - dunno what they look like now - and don't forget
> Euopeans don't have as far to go generally as an American does when he
> hits the road.  
>
> >why do they have trains and buses and we do not?
>
> We don't have the population density to support trains AND people
> would rather drive because they can get there just about as fast
> anyway.  And its cheaper to drive, 'cuz we don't have the
> infrastructure in most destinations we might take the train to, so we
> have to rent a car just as soon as we step off the thing.  Plus,
> riding the bus is usually a "poor people" thing and there's lots of
> criminals who mingle with the poor people, so you're less safe if
> you're riding a bus than if you're that driving.
>
> PLUS, if you try to take the train, when you drive to the station such
> as DC's Union Station, the PARKING is out the wazoo expensive.  And
> the train is no cheaper than an airplane, BTW.
>
> >why do they not have to live far from work and we do?
>
> Maybe they don't have a lot of pinheads that believe in "zoning".
> Zoning is an egregious violation of property rights in my opinion, and
> should not exist.  And, in this case, is actually harmful to our
> country.
>
>
>
> >and I love the reason given that because we are more crime-ridden, we
> >have to use more energy...  now that's _some_ statement about a "more
> >productive" America...eh?

just FYI - the "smart for 2" is not world car of the Chevy Geo Class.
There are at least a dozen cars of that size that that are roughly
twice as efficient as the smart for two - which is a big zero in
countries that require more efficiency. Cars that get 50 mpg with a
SOLO driver inside are twice as efficieint as SUVs with one guy
inside ... right?

we're expensing twice the energy to do what - move tonnage?


== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:12 pm
From: "bugo"


"Dave Head" <rally2xs@att.net> wrote in message
news:v07136ho8v28ui7q9hnoe5m2vgjsg8hoe0@4ax.com...

>>If the rest of the world used energy at the same per capita rate that
>>we do - how long would the world oil supplies last ? How long would
>>it be before the price of gasoline went to $5 or $10 a gallon or
>>higher?
>
> Dunno. We'd likely have to shut down our heavy industry to do better
> right away. I don't think we want to go there.

What heavy industry is left. So many jobs have been shipped to foreign
countries. It's sad how our leaders have sold the country out in the name
of corporate greed.

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:16 pm
From: "bugo"


"Dave Head" <rally2xs@att.net> wrote in message
news:h2i036dkbjf1l1lg59876posal31lqn51c@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 01:31:39 GMT, russotto@grace.speakeasy.net
> (Matthew Russotto) wrote:
>
>>In article <cciv26trsutg0302kn4nc9h8ash7klm5ua@4ax.com>,
>>Dave Head <rally2xs@att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 15:12:48 -0700 (PDT), Larry G
>>><gross.larry@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Jul 3, 5:06 pm, clouddreamer <Reuse.Recy...@Reduce.now> wrote:
>>>>> Dave Head wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > We could do a lot, if it wasn't for our gov't being 'round the bend
>>>>> > on
>>>>> > a few subjects like pollution and safety. I DON'T need a 3000 lb
>>>>> > car
>>>>> > to go from point A to point B, but my Subaru WRX is that much. And,
>>>>> > the Subaru has gotten the highest awards for safety that there are.
>>>>> > But they are tanks, compared to what is possible if we can just
>>>>> > convert to not having accidents as a strategy for safety, rather
>>>>> > than
>>>>> > building tanks...
>>>>>
>>>>> But for the size of them, Subarus are very fuel efficient. My Forester
>>>>> PZEV gets under 10L/100 km (and emits less GHG than a hybrid). I know
>>>>> of
>>>>> a Ford Focus that can't get that gas mileage driving the same roads I
>>>>> do.
>>>>
>>>>but a Subaru would be a gas guzzler in Europe or Japan?
>>>
>>>Sure. Because it has a gas engine, for one thing. Those guys use
>>>diesel. Why don't we use diesel? Envirowackos again.
>>
>>No, because diesel sucks. True, envirowhackos have made diesel an
>>even harder sell recently, but diesel STILL sucks.
>
> There's nothing wrong with diesels. The modern ones have been
> deoderized, and they're torque-y. They've been made to run fast, and
> win LeMans year after year, now. The winning of LeMans has been
> finagled by allowing them much greater displacement, but the point is
> that they can be made to run fast. And, if there are a few drawbacks
> hiding someplace, 68 mpg is worth putting up with them.

They stink, and they make awful sounds. Other than that they're fine.

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:33 pm
From: ZZH770@yahoo.com


On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 00:10:21 -0400, "Ray OHara"
<raymond-ohara@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Oil is sold on an internationzal commodities market.
> the price is set by bidding and nothing else.
>like us, don't like us , domestic oil or foreign oil, it doesn't matter at
>all to the price of a barrel.
>
>OPEC would like to control prices and they tried in the 70s with the oil
>embargo and they failed.
>
But the lesson from the 70s is they could easily shut off the spigot
and force prices to go through the roof.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 5:08 pm
From: Clark F Morris


On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 04:40:05 -0400, Dave Head <rally2xs@att.net>
wrote:

>On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 01:31:39 GMT, russotto@grace.speakeasy.net
>(Matthew Russotto) wrote:
>
>>In article <cciv26trsutg0302kn4nc9h8ash7klm5ua@4ax.com>,
>>Dave Head <rally2xs@att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 15:12:48 -0700 (PDT), Larry G
>>><gross.larry@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Jul 3, 5:06�pm, clouddreamer <Reuse.Recy...@Reduce.now> wrote:
>>>>> Dave Head wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > We could do a lot, if it wasn't for our gov't being 'round the bend on
>>>>> > a few subjects like pollution and safety. �I DON'T need a 3000 lb car
>>>>> > to go from point A to point B, but my Subaru WRX is that much. �And,
>>>>> > the Subaru has gotten the highest awards for safety that there are.
>>>>> > But they are tanks, compared to what is possible if we can just
>>>>> > convert to not having accidents as a strategy for safety, rather than
>>>>> > building tanks...
>>>>>
>>>>> But for the size of them, Subarus are very fuel efficient. My Forester
>>>>> PZEV gets under 10L/100 km (and emits less GHG than a hybrid). I know of
>>>>> a Ford Focus that can't get that gas mileage driving the same roads I do.
>>>>
>>>>but a Subaru would be a gas guzzler in Europe or Japan?
>>>
>>>Sure. Because it has a gas engine, for one thing. Those guys use
>>>diesel. Why don't we use diesel? Envirowackos again.
>>
>>No, because diesel sucks. True, envirowhackos have made diesel an
>>even harder sell recently, but diesel STILL sucks.
>
>There's nothing wrong with diesels. The modern ones have been
>deoderized, and they're torque-y. They've been made to run fast, and
>win LeMans year after year, now. The winning of LeMans has been
>finagled by allowing them much greater displacement, but the point is
>that they can be made to run fast. And, if there are a few drawbacks
>hiding someplace, 68 mpg is worth putting up with them.

While the particulate problem is vastly reduced with Euro IV and
whatever the USA EPA equivalent standard is, how does new diesel
compare with gas on nitric oxides, sulfur oxides and particulate
pollution. The latter is said to similar to asbestos in effect.

Clark Morris

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT July 4th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots/t/314962375fd8aec5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:38 pm
From: NNH@gmail.com


Today is July 4th, a day when we celebrate our fight to win our rights
against King George.

It also marks the years 2000-2008 when we rushed to give all
those rights back to King George.

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

gsk

https://secure.shareit.com/shareit/checkout.html?PRODUCT[300429992]=1&languageid=1&stylefrom=300429992&backlink=http%3A%2F%2Fforexguide.blogspot.com&cookies=1¤cies=USD&pts=VISA,MASTERCARD,AMEX,DC