Saturday, July 17, 2010

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rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

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http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

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Today's topics:

* Does Johan Know the Difference Between a Book and a Grand Jury? - 1 messages,
1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/20c115763822f7dc?hl=en
* Fear for Armstrong - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/90cce6a414f9dc54?hl=en
* Lemond Subpoenaed--the Trek Connection - 7 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/45274c176a26fcb5?hl=en
* Vino - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bc6b2f33f94e7971?hl=en
* To B. Lafferty - 5 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/61083c731b27cf7e?hl=en
* Breakaways - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3b5a543b4ddb9903?hl=en
* Liz Hatch Riding the Sybian - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f5ce786de1b4f6fc?hl=en
* Thank you, Vino ... - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/881345a785a226e8?hl=en
* Two observations - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/d9c3e765d998886a?hl=en
* newbie question: TdF website - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/d431280c7ed96478?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Does Johan Know the Difference Between a Book and a Grand Jury?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/20c115763822f7dc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 12:57 pm
From: Keith


On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 10:46:33 -0400, "B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>Pour une fois, Johan Bruyneel n'a pas les clŽs du Tour en main. Une
>position inhabituelle pour le directeur sportif de RadioShack, qui
>voyait Lance Armstrong sur le podium ˆ Paris s'il n'avait pas chutŽ sur
>la 8e Žtape, ˆ Avoriaz. Dans les colonnes de L'Equipe de samedi, le
>Belge veut voir le bon c™tŽ des choses : ÇC'est vrai qu'on n'a plus le
>poids de la course. Je n'avais jamais connu cette situation. Au dŽbut,
>c'est un sentiment Žtrange mais finalement ce n'est pas plus mal. On est
>plus relax le soir ˆ l'h™tel, on a le temps de vivre.È
>Le manager de 45 ans a expliquŽ que les accusations portŽes par Floyd
>Landis contre lui et l'AmŽricain ne l'atteignaient pas. ÇOn a dŽjˆ connu
> a en 2004, avec la parution d'un livre violent contre lui. Ce n'Žtait
>pas agrŽable mais a ne nous avait pas dŽstabilisŽs outre mesure. On
>sait y faire. (...) Landis ne nous a pas surpris. Cela fait deux ans
>qu'il nous menace et m me, depuis 2006, il nous harc le pour nous
>demander soit une place dans l'Žquipe, soit de l'argent.È
>
>Bruyneel, technicien singulier, est soit craint, soit dŽcriŽ dans le
>milieu du cyclisme. Ses mŽthodes de chef d'entreprise lui valent
>quelques critiques. ÇLes critiques me fatiguent mais, depuis le temps,
>je suis immunisŽ, lance-t-il. (...) Je suis peut- tre isolŽ mais il faut
>savoir faire Žvoluer notre sport.È
>http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2010/20100717_122635_bruyneel-n-a-pas-peur-de-landis.html

Thanks, yes JB and Cie are in a little world of their own...that's
about to change...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fear for Armstrong
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/90cce6a414f9dc54?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 1:00 pm
From: Anton Berlin


Actually I have some respect for the guy in that he is sticking with
it. He could have said at any point "i'm too old for this shit"

Although he may be trying to prove to himself that he can ride and
finish the tour without dope - something he's never done yet.

Or he may just be trying to prolong his time as a free man since
arrest and ridicule await after Paris.


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 1:57 pm
From: Uncle Dave


On Jul 17, 9:00 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Actually I have some respect for the guy in that he is sticking with
> it.  He could have said at any point "i'm too old for this shit"
>
> Although he may be trying to prove to himself that he can ride and
> finish the tour without dope -  something he's never done yet.

Did he not complete a Tour pre-cancer? If so, does that mean he was
doping but just wasn't bothered?

UD


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 2:12 pm
From: Anton Berlin


On Jul 17, 3:57 pm, Uncle Dave <davidco...@t-online.de> wrote:
> On Jul 17, 9:00 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Actually I have some respect for the guy in that he is sticking with
> > it.  He could have said at any point "i'm too old for this shit"
>
> > Although he may be trying to prove to himself that he can ride and
> > finish the tour without dope -  something he's never done yet.
>
> Did he not complete a Tour pre-cancer?  If so, does that mean he was
> doping but just wasn't bothered?
>
> UD
Since we know he doped at the OTC (Strock) and we know he doped after
the cancer (his first corticosteroid positive) it's safe to bet that
he would have been doping in that first tour, his worlds win etc.
This may be the only race he's ever done without dope since he left
Plano.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lemond Subpoenaed--the Trek Connection
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/45274c176a26fcb5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 1:01 pm
From: Keith


On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 08:29:53 -0400, "B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>On 7/17/2010 8:15 AM, B. Lafferty wrote:
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-to-testify-in-armstrong-probe
>
>Armstrong's representatives did not immediately respond to requests for
>comment about the LeMond subpoena. Armstrong has been struggling this
>month in what he says is his final Tour de France. He has denied doping,
>most recently in the wake of vivid accusations from his former teammate,
>Floyd Landis. Trek spokesman Bill Mashek told the News that the company
>is "fully cooperating with the government's request."
>
>http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/07/16/2010-07-16_lemond_subpoenaed_in_growing_doping_probe.html

Thanks, at last LA is not going to be able to bully his way out.


== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 1:57 pm
From: "derFahrer@gmail.com"


> I personally find Laff@me's incessant posting of links w/out analysis
> or commentary very helpful...  ROTFLMAO!

damn straight. We'd never think to look in such obscure places as the
NYT or cyclingnews.com

why, the only reason to visit this newsgroup is to experience such
expert link-spamming-to-make-it-appear-that-I've-discovered-something-
important-that-no-one-else-knows-about.


== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 2:00 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"


"B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:WridnUeRhoi5MtzRnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> On 7/17/2010 8:44 AM, RicodJour wrote:
>> On Jul 17, 8:29 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> On 7/17/2010 8:15 AM, B. Lafferty wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-to-testify-in-armstrong-probe
>>>
>>> Armstrong's representatives did not immediately respond to requests for
>>> comment about the LeMond subpoena. Armstrong has been struggling this
>>> month in what he says is his final Tour de France. He has denied doping,
>>> most recently in the wake of vivid accusations from his former teammate,
>>> Floyd Landis. Trek spokesman Bill Mashek told the News that the company
>>> is "fully cooperating with the government's request."
>>>
>>> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/07/16/2010-07-16_l...
>>
>> Three posts in 15 minutes, on your obsession, regarding something any
>> idiot, including you, knew was coming a long time ago. I spend about
>> five minutes a day having any concern for the LANCE situation. You?
>> LANCE owns you and is living rent free in your head. Wot a maroon.
>>
>> Maybe you should start your own Twitter feed. I mean where else would
>> people be able to find the information that is on every news source
>> online and off?
>>
>> R
> Thanks for following the post, RICO. I post em as I find em. Do you have
> any substantive comments on the articles. How about a substantive comment
> on the Washington Post article from yesterday. The Lance acolytes are
> rather silent on that article.

Silent about... what?

#1: "Lance acolytes" is yet another attempt on your part to further polarize
people rather than try to get to the truth or even understand why they think
the way they do. Why?

#2: There's NOTHING NEW HERE yet again. Get over it. Don't you remember
Trek's defense during the LeMond/Trek split not that long ago? Trek chose
the nuclear option. They put every bit of dirt that might get dug up on them
out on the table, right from the start, neutering LeMond's leverage (as in,
if you don't give me what I want, I'll expose all your dirty laundry... so
Trek exposed it on their own).

#2b: Oh wait, there is something that might come out from the Grand Jury
investigating this and calling in Greg LeMond, specifcally regarding the
"missing" USPS bicycles. Because, what do you know, that came up with Greg!
Ohmygosh, could the Grand Jury/Novitsky be putting two+two together and
wondering what Greg LeMond did with the money? Well no, not really, I don't
think Greg's a suspect for doping, at least not in this venue. But it
*could* go to show that what went on is relatively normal and not unique to
USPS etc.

Keep in mind, as always, I must be totally 100% biased because I'm typing
this from a hotel room in Toulouse, France, after riding out to watch the
'Tour with my son earlier in the day, and I'm here for the next week,
enjoying it immensely. I realize that you can't relate to that possibility;
that a 'Tour in which Lance is not a substantive part of, and in which I've
already said Contador is going to won must be a painful thing for me to
watch. To which I can only suggest that you need to come and see the
spectacle that is the TdF to understand it's a whole lot more than just one
person or team. This isn't World Cup Soccer where the world ends when your
team loses. This is an event where, no matter who wins, people are
entertained, excited, and keep coming back for more.

Which is why it bugs me so much that you only come out at 'Tour time seeking
to do exactly what I'm not sure of, beyond an intense desire to polarize and
inflame people.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 3:48 pm
From: Davey Crockett


Ben Trovato a écrit profondement:

| Davey stopped going to newstands after Der Stuermer ceased
| publication...

Last time I checked Der Stürmer was alive and well

--
Molly Malone would think she'd died and gone to Hell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvlUEI4CxhE&feature=player_embedded


== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 3:55 pm
From: thirty-six


On 17 July, 20:05, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>
> Fool, Simpson died because he was obsessed to win at all costs and
> pushed too close to the line of life and death. As to water, the
> primitive knowledge and superstitions of cyclist from that period are
> myriad.  Limiting water in hot weather was one of them.  Not playing
> golf in ones spare time was another.  Not taking your wool tights off
> until the temp hit 70 is another.  I could go on, but it's beside the
> point.
>

The man was likely to win the tour, he couldn't throw it away. He
had diahroeah and his blood pressure would have been falling without
salted water to bring it back up. The rules did not allow the handing
of water by another rider or by a team manager or mechanic. The
riders had to stop and collect their own water from public sources.
Only two bottles could be carried iirc. The taking of speed was
probably an attempt to maintain blood pressure within the vital
organs. There's also a damn good reason to stay covered up until it
is warm, tour riders back then had very little fat on them and core
body temperature drop when there is a sudden muscle demand for blood,
the returning blood is cold, due to cold muscles and will shock the
heart possibly instigating a heart attack. Not primitive knowledge,
quite advanced, but you need to understand the conditions and rules
imposed were not of the riders making.


== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 4:27 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 7/17/2010 6:55 PM, thirty-six wrote:
> On 17 July, 20:05, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Fool, Simpson died because he was obsessed to win at all costs and
>> pushed too close to the line of life and death. As to water, the
>> primitive knowledge and superstitions of cyclist from that period are
>> myriad. Limiting water in hot weather was one of them. Not playing
>> golf in ones spare time was another. Not taking your wool tights off
>> until the temp hit 70 is another. I could go on, but it's beside the
>> point.
>>
>
> The man was likely to win the tour, he couldn't throw it away. He
> had diahroeah and his blood pressure would have been falling without
> salted water to bring it back up. The rules did not allow the handing
> of water by another rider or by a team manager or mechanic. The
> riders had to stop and collect their own water from public sources.
> Only two bottles could be carried iirc. The taking of speed was
> probably an attempt to maintain blood pressure within the vital
> organs.

Speed to maintain blood pressure to vital organs. That's a new one. Tom
had diarrhea and probably should not have started that day. But, he did
because he needed to win and needed to make money--a major factor for
him in his life.


> There's also a damn good reason to stay covered up until it
> is warm, tour riders back then had very little fat on them and core
> body temperature drop when there is a sudden muscle demand for blood,
> the returning blood is cold, due to cold muscles and will shock the
> heart possibly instigating a heart attack.

!. TdF riders today have less body fat than the riders of Simpson's
generation, generally.
2. Physiology is a bit more complex than what you present although I
have heard this theory of cold blood from muscles and shocks to the
heart from old racers in the 1970s. They also eschewed drinking water
on hot rides. One told me, Don't drink no water. Just put a pebble in
your mouth and suck on it."


> Not primitive knowledge,
> quite advanced, but you need to understand the conditions and rules
> imposed were not of the riders making.

Some were imposed by Le Tour. Many were of the riders own doing


== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 5:29 pm
From: --D-y


On Jul 17, 2:05 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:

> Bad is a relative term here.  As long as it's within the bounds of the
> law, it's OK.

"Bad" like lying or causing others to lie. Withholding exculpatory
evidence. A long way short of nitpicking "technicalities" here.

>  Just like Herman can blow smoke for Armstrong as long as
> it's within the bounds of the law.
>
> To answer your question, not all that high a percentage.  My guess is
> that 99% percent of those convicted at trial are guilty.  The few that
> are not argue well for not having a death penalty.

Percentage is 100 when it happens to you. My "guess" is that there are
many, many false convictions because many don't have the resources to
fight back.

> It's a lousy choice, but it is still a choice.

Don't slip off that pedestal, Brian.

>  You can either cheat or
> not.  In the long run I have more respect for the guys like Hampsten who
> took their careers up the high road knowing the winnings would be fewer.

Me too. I also have another kind of respect for people who operate in
this evil world and win.

(Tommy Simpson's death)
> Fool,

If you read the Fotheringham book "Put Me Back on My Bike", you'd know
how wrong the rest of what you wrote is.
Rules limited bottle handups in order to "prevent cheating". That's
the (usual stupid human) irony, Brian.

> Simpson died because he was obsessed to win at all costs and
> pushed too close to the line of life and death. As to water, the
> primitive knowledge and superstitions of cyclist from that period are
> myriad.  Limiting water in hot weather was one of them.  Not playing
> golf in ones spare time was another.  Not taking your wool tights off
> until the temp hit 70 is another.  I could go on, but it's beside the
> point.

No, the point is, bad rules killed Tommy Simpson-- not "the dope".
Read the book-- his body was dry when he collapsed because he was
unable to sweat.

> You are full of shit, pure and simple.

Not at all full, Brian.

>  If the deck is stacked, it's
> because Lance and Co. stacked it themselves.

Clearly, I meant, for one example, that poor Greg and Kathy Lemond are
being made into sympathetic figures. "Dope hysteria".
Greg and Kathy will likely "be believed". Too bad for Lance because
there isn't an accurate recording of the exchange (the "phone call").

> And it isn't stacked from
> the government side.

Jesus. Novitsky puts balls in vices and then gets... the shining
truth? Or, what he wants to hear?

> The government has the power to criminally
> investigate which is something perps usually don't consider while
> planing and doing their acts.  Like virtually all perps, they think
> they'll never get caught. They're all rather stupid when it comes down
> to it.  And 99% still claim they're innocent after trial and conviction.

I don't agree that "virtually all", by any means, don't believe
they'll be caught. Having spent some hours riding and gabbing with a
person who worked on both sides of the legal fence, so to speak, it
seems many are locked into a way of life that includes lots of jail
time. Sad, isn't it?

> My understanding is that Novitsky has never been a prosecutor.  He was
> previously an investigator with the criminal division of the IRS.  If he
> was an AUSA or an ADA, please provide details.

That was just downright sloppy on my part. Forgive me.>

> Mad dogs are usually most effective on short leashes.

The pit bulls being used as "legal carry" offensive weapons are let
off leash, by my understanding.

> It's not his evidence to give back.  You're thinking it is serves to
> illustrate your ignorance of how the criminal legal system works.  The
> order directing return of materials, as I understand it, was directed by
> the court to the US Attorney and the agency in possession of the records.

Not my recollection of the story I read. Judge what's her name, heap-
big PO'd at Novitsky, by name. But, whatever.
>
> Might I suggest that you take a break for a while from typing for stupidity?

Sure. Might I suggest you get some professional help in dealing with
your Lance mania and nasty personal manner? Thanks!
--D-y

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Vino
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bc6b2f33f94e7971?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 1:02 pm
From: Keith


On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 17:22:59 +0100, S Perryman <a@a.net> wrote:

>Davey Crockett wrote:
>
>> Davey's faith in Justice is fully restored
>
>His mental ability to dust himself down and start again doesn't seem to be
>in doubt.
>
>Although this does now appear to be a genuine Vino trait, and not in
>the knowing that tomorrow he can always reach into the blood bank to
>redress the matter. Perhaps this truly is Nemesis in action.
>
>
>Regards,
>Steven Perryman

Yep, certainly seemed to be the strongest man out there. He'd be crazy
to dope but then everyone said the same thing about LA in 1999...


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 1:03 pm
From: Anton Berlin


It was hard to watch Vino today and not think dope.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 4:02 pm
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"

"Anton Berlin" <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c158829d-b28f-4a7d-8df0-81be534cd588@j8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
: It was hard to watch Vino today and not think dope.

Dumbass -

Dope or not, that man has some willpower.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: To B. Lafferty
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/61083c731b27cf7e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 1:02 pm
From: Anton Berlin


If Lafferty can't post about Lance's legal and doping exploits then no
one in their right mind could ever put a Liz Hatch post in rbr ever
again.

She is the antithesis of 'bike racing'


== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 1:43 pm
From: DirtRoadie


On Jul 17, 1:38 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroForums.com> wrote:

> For those who want to follow the course of the investigation, Laff's
> providing and highlighting that.

Is there some reason it can't be done in a group focused specifically
on such things?
It seems that would be best for all concerned and not waste anyone's
time or bandwidth in either group.

DR

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 2:26 pm
From: "GoneBeforeMyTime"


DirtRoadie wrote:
> On Jul 17, 1:38 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroForums.com> wrote:
>
>> For those who want to follow the course of the investigation, Laff's
>> providing and highlighting that.
>
> Is there some reason it can't be done in a group focused specifically
> on such things?
> It seems that would be best for all concerned and not waste anyone's
> time or bandwidth in either group.
>
> DR

I thought rbr was focused on doping threads?

See this thing has been going on for almost a decade now in rbr with Laff.
Back then nobody thought Laff had anything, but now people seem to sense
Laff is onto something. I can tell you for a fact, if he left, people would
asking where's Laff when some new dirt surfaced. Laff's on the cutting edge
with it, it's his thing, plus he's doing all the footwork, so you don't have
to. You don't have to click on his threads if you don't want to. I don't
have time to read all that stuff either, but when I do have time to read up
on it, I know Laff's got it all laid out for us.


== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 3:37 pm
From: DirtRoadie


On Jul 17, 3:26 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroForums.com> wrote:
> DirtRoadie wrote:
> > On Jul 17, 1:38 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroForums.com> wrote:
>
> >> For those who want to follow the course of the investigation, Laff's
> >> providing and highlighting that.
>
> > Is there some reason it can't be done in a group focused specifically
> > on such things?
> > It seems that would be best for all concerned and not waste anyone's
> > time or bandwidth in either group.
>
> > DR
>
> I thought rbr was focused on doping threads?
>
> See this thing has been going on for almost a decade now in rbr with Laff.
> Back then nobody thought Laff had anything, but now people seem to sense
> Laff is onto something. I can tell you for a fact, if he left, people would
> asking where's Laff when some new dirt surfaced. Laff's on the cutting edge
> with it, it's his thing, plus he's doing all the footwork, so you don't have
> to. You don't have to click on his threads if you don't want to. I don't
> have time to read all that stuff either, but when I do have time to read up
> on it, I know Laff's got it all laid out for us.

He was graciously silent for a LONG time while he dealt with his other
little conflict. It was great.
We know his position. We have known it for years. Lance is a doper and
the whole world sucks. Maybe he's right. Maybe he's not. I really
don't care.

As I said, if I wanted news I would have it delivered directly via a
Google alert. It would be wonderful if he didn't start a new thread
every time a new item appeared. The story remains the same and could
be readily handled in a SINGLE thread. But BL is intent on making
everyone think he is somehow on the inside track in knowing something.
It simply isn't so.

As much as I would like to, I have not suggested that that BL cease
posting. I have merely suggested that he and his disciples get a
private "room" where anyone who is interested can follow along. The
are already numerous bicycle groups which have been created as a
result of having a specific bike-related focus. A
rec.bicycles.racing.politics group would be perfect for BL's
preoccupation. Seriously.

DR


== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 4:00 pm
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"


"GoneBeforeMyTime" <Fans@EuroForums.com> wrote in message
news:zNSdnSvduO8xm9_RnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@sti.net...
:
: He's doing it for free here. On TV, I guess they get paid to comment on
: Larry King, and King's show would be edited. They would not allows any or
: all comments, info, etc. that Laff provides. Rbr has been a forum
massively
: skewed by doping threads for years now, not bike racing. I don't mind Laff
: providing the feed here since it is after all a doping newsgroup. I find
it
: more interesting content then all the massive amount of Liz Hatch threads
: and other nonsense. His stuff is pretty much straight talk, links, facts,
: etc.

Dumbass -

No it isn't.

His analysis is as biased as it gets.

You're fucking stupid for thinking otherwise.

thanks,

Dirtbag. presented by Gringioni.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Breakaways
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3b5a543b4ddb9903?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 1:10 pm
From: Anton Berlin


The commentators'
job is to talk about the racers in a position to win the race
on that day, and races are won from the front.

Nah.. the commentators are there to pull you through to the next
sponsored break.

A long time ago Joe Bob Briggs wrote a commentary on how they suck you
in with some past wrong or current injustice that happened in the
sport or between the two rivals. And our own sense of fair play likes
to see initially the wrong righted, the intentional foul payed back
with a loss, the cancer boy win, and then after doing the impossible,
improbable and knowing about the doping confession by a teammate, the
cheating on his wife with the stewardess in San Francisco, the sluts
in Austin, etc our sense of justice enjoys seeing the little shit back
in his slummy little fathers trailer drinking sterno and sleeping in
his own urine.

It's all about getting you to buy a Road ID and some Michelob Lite

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Liz Hatch Riding the Sybian
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f5ce786de1b4f6fc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 1:32 pm
From: Superfly TNT


Apparently, Liz Hatch has been riding a Sybian that looks like a
watermelon. Here is the photographic evidence...

http://twitpic.com/24p10u

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Thank you, Vino ...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/881345a785a226e8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 3:58 pm
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"

"Jimmy July" <Jim@JimmyJim.JimJimJim> wrote in message
news:4c41ece1@news.x-privat.org...
: ...for helping me PROVE what a bunch of hypocrites post in RBR!
:
: A proven DOPER wins a stage in the TdF


Dumbass -

He broke the rules, he got busted, he paid the price and now he's back.

Good for him. Guy's got some willpower in order to maintain form during
those 2 years off and being in his 30s.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 5:07 pm
From: --D-y


On Jul 17, 5:58 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> "Jimmy July" <J...@JimmyJim.JimJimJim> wrote in message
>
> news:4c41ece1@news.x-privat.org...
> : ...for helping me PROVE what a bunch of hypocrites post in RBR!
> :
> : A proven DOPER wins a stage in the TdF
>
> Dumbass -
>
> He broke the rules, he got busted, he paid the price and now he's back.
>
> Good for him. Guy's got some willpower in order to maintain form during
> those 2 years off and being in his 30s.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

If we didn't know "willpower", he gave an exhibition today.
"Shit, he's gone!" said the peloton.
That was sweet.
--D-y

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Two observations
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/d9c3e765d998886a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 4:04 pm
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"

"Frederick the Great" <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:rubrum-AF8628.01082817072010@news.albasani.net...
: In article <i1r9v0$pa8$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
: "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemachine@gmail.com> wrote:
:
: > "Frederick the Great" <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote in message
: > news:rubrum-45D3C9.14115916072010@news.albasani.net...
: > :
: > : Possibly not. The green jersey is often won by the
: > : fastest sprinter. The mountains jersey is never won by
: > : the strongest climber.
: >
: > Dumbass -
: >
: > Sometimes it is.
:
: Recently?

Dumbass -

You wrote 'never'.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: newbie question: TdF website
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/d431280c7ed96478?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 5:09 pm
From: "Mark J."


Neil Gerace wrote:
> Davey Crockett wrote:
>
>>
>> But the Red circles represent climbs or cols/mountains
>
> Low number = higher category (steeper climb)?


Here's an old chestnut worth repeating (found via google):

[Quoted material follows]
Ben c'est assez simple : Tu prends une 2CV. Si celle-ci
monte en 4ème, alors c'est un col de 4ème catégorie. Même
chose avec la 3ème, 2ème puis 1ère vitesse. Maintenant,
si la 2CV ne monte pas, il s'agit du col "hors catégorie"...

Translation for non-francophones:

Well, it's quite simple: you take a [Citroen] 2CV. If it climbs
in 4th [gear], it's a 4th category climb. Same thing with 3rd,
2nd and 1st gear. If the 2CV won't climb at all, it's a 'hors
catégorie' col.
[end quote]

Mark J.


==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

Buzz It
rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Lemond Subpoenaed--the Trek Connection - 6 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/45274c176a26fcb5?hl=en
* Contador: "All I Really Need to Know About Being a Good Teammate I Learned
From Lance" - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/47a2f6f02b79bc57?hl=en
* Does Johan Know the Difference Between a Book and a Grand Jury? - 4 messages,
4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/20c115763822f7dc?hl=en
* newbie question: TdF website - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/d431280c7ed96478?hl=en
* Vino - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bc6b2f33f94e7971?hl=en
* Fear for Armstrong - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/90cce6a414f9dc54?hl=en
* Tour de France, stage 12 summary - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f606595cc3e7eaa9?hl=en
* Tour de France, stage 13 summary - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3876292e9fbc1d8f?hl=en
* Breakaways - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3b5a543b4ddb9903?hl=en
* To B. Lafferty - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/61083c731b27cf7e?hl=en
* Thank you, Vino ... - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/881345a785a226e8?hl=en
* Farrar, hand off the bar - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/d0663efc55b28af3?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lemond Subpoenaed--the Trek Connection
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/45274c176a26fcb5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 7:30 am
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 7/17/2010 10:06 AM, --D-y wrote:
> On Jul 17, 8:24 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On 7/17/2010 8:44 AM, RicodJour wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 17, 8:29 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> On 7/17/2010 8:15 AM, B. Lafferty wrote:
>>
>>>>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-to-testify-in-armstrong-probe
>>
>>>> Armstrong's representatives did not immediately respond to requests for
>>>> comment about the LeMond subpoena. Armstrong has been struggling this
>>>> month in what he says is his final Tour de France. He has denied doping,
>>>> most recently in the wake of vivid accusations from his former teammate,
>>>> Floyd Landis. Trek spokesman Bill Mashek told the News that the company
>>>> is "fully cooperating with the government's request."
>>
>>>> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/07/16/2010-07-16_l...
>>
>>> Three posts in 15 minutes, on your obsession, regarding something any
>>> idiot, including you, knew was coming a long time ago. I spend about
>>> five minutes a day having any concern for the LANCE situation. You?
>>> LANCE owns you and is living rent free in your head. Wot a maroon.
>>
>>> Maybe you should start your own Twitter feed. I mean where else would
>>> people be able to find the information that is on every news source
>>> online and off?
>>
>>> R
>>
>> Thanks for following the post, RICO. I post em as I find em. Do you
>> have any substantive comments on the articles. How about a substantive
>> comment on the Washington Post article from yesterday. The Lance
>> acolytes are rather silent on that article.
>
> Go ahead and offer your own "substantive comment", Brian.
> Otherwise, it's hard to tell what you're thinking.
> (<g>)

The Ball connection is explained pretty well, don't you think? More
riders are talking than was thought. I disagree with the problem with
the five year S of L, but prosecutors are known to play mind games to
make target think they are partly off the hook.

>
> I'm waiting for that one good stage in the Pyrenees, myself.
> He looked scared when the Floyd stuff first broke. He doesn't look
> scared anymore, at all.
>
> Finally had a flat at the wrong time, a crash at the wrong time. Looks
> to me like he's handling it with a lot of class.
> Don't forget, Brian, they were all doping, and, aside from personal
> hatred and vendetta, on that basis, the worst thing he did was win
> races while doing what everyone else was doing too, except he did it
> better. That's one of the things that really bothers you, obviously.

I disagree with your attitude toward cheating and the lies and hypocrisy
surrounding cheating. Just because everyone is doing doesn't make it
right or OK to do.


>
> Thanks for the ticker tape; I know you spend hours every day raking
> and reporting, btw.
>
> Gosh, does Greg get to bring those handwritten, after-the-fact (and
> after consultation with his lovely wife) notes, supposedly recording
> what Lance said on the telephone, to a grand jury and have them
> sanctified as evidence for The Inquisition?

Your presumptions are showing. The Grand Jury subpoena calls for the
production of all documents from the Trek litigation and anything else
Lemond has. We don't know all that he has. And yes, certain
contemporaneous notes and memoranda can be probative and are often
admissible at trial.

>
> Let's see here:<http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html>
> "Unable to hold jobs for any length of time"
> "Seek out situations where their work is admired and rewarded"
>
> Sound like any prosecutors with last names starting with N you can
> think of?

Novitsky is NOT a prosecutor. He's an investigator. The prosecutor
assigned to the case is Doug Miller. "M" is close to "N" in the
alphabet, but they are different letters. ;-)

What's interesting to me is that Novitsky has been staying pretty much
out of the public eye in this investigation. Miller is probably keeping
him on a short leash for this investigation so that people will bark up
the wrong tree like you're doing. Arf! Arf!


> --D-y

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 7:54 am
From: Anton Berlin


The Lance
> acolytes are rather silent on that article.

They are choking on the scrotum hairs of truth.


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 11:00 am
From: Ben Trovato


On Jul 17, 7:17 am, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 17, 9:37 am, Davey Crockett <r...@azurservers.com> wrote:
>
> > "B. Lafferty" a écrit profondement:
>
> > |http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-to-testify-in-armstrong-probe
>
> > Thanks for the updates Brian
>
> > They are most welcome
>
> I am surprised that you are unable to find Cycling News, The New York
> Times, and the Wall Street Journal on your own.  They have rather a
> large presence on the intertubes, and, at least for the last two, you
> can most likely find them at your local newsstand or library, pretty
> much anywhere you are.  Even Goliath* could do it.
>
> Aren't you also the guy that is all up-in-arms about people being
> spoon-fed?  Why does Brian spoon-feeding you this pablum not trigger
> the outrage?  Is it simply because you agree with his opinion/
> obsession?  Sheesh.  No one's pure any more.
>
> R
>
> * Requisite obscure children's TV show reference.

Davey stopped going to newstands after Der Stuermer ceased
publication...


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 11:00 am
From: --D-y


On Jul 17, 9:30 am, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:

> The Ball connection is explained pretty well, don't you think?

Didn't read it.
>  More
> riders are talking than was thought. I disagree with the problem with
> the five year S of L, but prosecutors are known to play mind games to
> make target think they are partly off the hook.

Prosecutors do all kinds of bad things all the time in order to get
convictions. How many murderers, for instance, have been found to be
wrongfully convicted after *real* DNA evidence was brought into the
light of day?


> I disagree with your attitude toward cheating and the lies and hypocrisy
> surrounding cheating. Just because everyone is doing doesn't make it
> right or OK to do.

I think you're jumping in a little late, so to speak, IRT my
"attitude". As I've said often here, my attitude starts with "Lead us
not into temptation", meaning make rules that can be fairly and evenly
enforced on the day. How easy it is for the Pounds of the world to cop
a phony moralistic stance for the purpose of selling sport to
corporate sponsors. Brandy and cigars for the "cops", who in my book
are worse cheaters than the athletes who dope.

As a competitive athlete, if the guy next to you can juice and get
away with it, you can either keep up or eat shit. Whether you agree or
not, that's not much of a "choice".

Don't you find it somewhat disgustingly ironic that Tommy Simpson died
not from "drugs" but from lack of water-- due to bad rules? IOW, he
could get amphetamines, alcohol, "whatever" easier than the water that
would have prevented his unnecessary death, which then brought about
the "dope scare" we are still living with to this day? I mean, were
"the rules" changed IRT getting water with the same sense of urgency
that "drugs" were attacked?

> Your presumptions are showing.  The Grand Jury subpoena calls for the
> production of all documents from the Trek litigation and anything else
> Lemond has.  We don't know all that he has.  And yes, certain
> contemporaneous notes and memoranda can be probative and are often
> admissible at trial.

The issue is whether Greg and Kathy can be believed, short of a well-
examined recording of Lance's voice saying the things they said he
said.
The deck is being stacked against Lance at this point (I know you're
rejoicing).

> Novitsky is NOT a prosecutor.  He's an investigator.  The prosecutor
> assigned to the case is Doug Miller.  "M" is close to "N" in the
> alphabet, but they are different letters. ;-)

That's right, he used to be a prosecutor but due to his over-reaching
shenanigans (as diagnosed in the DSM) he isn't one of those any more,
and now he's an "investigator"-- the position where his work can be
admired and rewarded, and he can get away with a lot more crap than he
could as a real prosecutor.

> What's interesting to me is that Novitsky has been staying pretty much
> out of the public eye in this investigation.  Miller is probably keeping
> him on a short leash for this investigation so that people will bark up
> the wrong tree like you're doing.  Arf! Arf!

Mad dog on a short leash. Maniacal hatred of Barry Bonds a well-
documented part of his past. Wow, just what we need working for us,
psychos enforcing the law!

"Bad cops, bad cops-- what you gonna do?
Bad cops, bad cops-- what ya gonna do when they come for you?
Bad cops!"
(did Novitsky give the evidence back yet like the judge ordered? I bet
not. Woof woof!)
--D-y


== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 11:42 am
From: Jimmy July


On 07/17/2010 07:54 AM, Anton Berlin wrote:
> The Lance
>> acolytes are rather silent on that article.
>
> They are choking on the scrotum hairs of truth.

Since the truth is clean shaven, this can only mean that you've been
fellating the wrong thing.


== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 12:05 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 7/17/2010 2:00 PM, --D-y wrote:
> On Jul 17, 9:30 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> The Ball connection is explained pretty well, don't you think?
>
> Didn't read it.
>> More
>> riders are talking than was thought. I disagree with the problem with
>> the five year S of L, but prosecutors are known to play mind games to
>> make target think they are partly off the hook.
>
> Prosecutors do all kinds of bad things all the time in order to get
> convictions. How many murderers, for instance, have been found to be
> wrongfully convicted after *real* DNA evidence was brought into the
> light of day?

Bad is a relative term here. As long as it's within the bounds of the
law, it's OK. Just like Herman can blow smoke for Armstrong as long as
it's within the bounds of the law.

To answer your question, not all that high a percentage. My guess is
that 99% percent of those convicted at trial are guilty. The few that
are not argue well for not having a death penalty.


>
>
>> I disagree with your attitude toward cheating and the lies and hypocrisy
>> surrounding cheating. Just because everyone is doing doesn't make it
>> right or OK to do.
>
> I think you're jumping in a little late, so to speak, IRT my
> "attitude". As I've said often here, my attitude starts with "Lead us
> not into temptation", meaning make rules that can be fairly and evenly
> enforced on the day. How easy it is for the Pounds of the world to cop
> a phony moralistic stance for the purpose of selling sport to
> corporate sponsors. Brandy and cigars for the "cops", who in my book
> are worse cheaters than the athletes who dope.
>
> As a competitive athlete, if the guy next to you can juice and get
> away with it, you can either keep up or eat shit. Whether you agree or
> not, that's not much of a "choice".

It's a lousy choice, but it is still a choice. You can either cheat or
not. In the long run I have more respect for the guys like Hampsten who
took their careers up the high road knowing the winnings would be fewer.

>
> Don't you find it somewhat disgustingly ironic that Tommy Simpson died
> not from "drugs" but from lack of water-- due to bad rules? IOW, he
> could get amphetamines, alcohol, "whatever" easier than the water that
> would have prevented his unnecessary death, which then brought about
> the "dope scare" we are still living with to this day? I mean, were
> "the rules" changed IRT getting water with the same sense of urgency
> that "drugs" were attacked?

Fool, Simpson died because he was obsessed to win at all costs and
pushed too close to the line of life and death. As to water, the
primitive knowledge and superstitions of cyclist from that period are
myriad. Limiting water in hot weather was one of them. Not playing
golf in ones spare time was another. Not taking your wool tights off
until the temp hit 70 is another. I could go on, but it's beside the
point.

>
>> Your presumptions are showing. The Grand Jury subpoena calls for the
>> production of all documents from the Trek litigation and anything else
>> Lemond has. We don't know all that he has. And yes, certain
>> contemporaneous notes and memoranda can be probative and are often
>> admissible at trial.
>
> The issue is whether Greg and Kathy can be believed, short of a well-
> examined recording of Lance's voice saying the things they said he
> said.
> The deck is being stacked against Lance at this point (I know you're
> rejoicing).


You are full of shit, pure and simple. If the deck is stacked, it's
because Lance and Co. stacked it themselves. And it isn't stacked from
the government side. The government has the power to criminally
investigate which is something perps usually don't consider while
planing and doing their acts. Like virtually all perps, they think
they'll never get caught. They're all rather stupid when it comes down
to it. And 99% still claim they're innocent after trial and conviction.

>
>> Novitsky is NOT a prosecutor. He's an investigator. The prosecutor
>> assigned to the case is Doug Miller. "M" is close to "N" in the
>> alphabet, but they are different letters. ;-)
>
> That's right, he used to be a prosecutor but due to his over-reaching
> shenanigans (as diagnosed in the DSM) he isn't one of those any more,
> and now he's an "investigator"-- the position where his work can be
> admired and rewarded, and he can get away with a lot more crap than he
> could as a real prosecutor.

My understanding is that Novitsky has never been a prosecutor. He was
previously an investigator with the criminal division of the IRS. If he
was an AUSA or an ADA, please provide details.

>
>> What's interesting to me is that Novitsky has been staying pretty much
>> out of the public eye in this investigation. Miller is probably keeping
>> him on a short leash for this investigation so that people will bark up
>> the wrong tree like you're doing. Arf! Arf!
>
> Mad dog on a short leash. Maniacal hatred of Barry Bonds a well-
> documented part of his past. Wow, just what we need working for us,
> psychos enforcing the law!

Mad dogs are usually most effective on short leashes.

>
> "Bad cops, bad cops-- what you gonna do?
> Bad cops, bad cops-- what ya gonna do when they come for you?
> Bad cops!"
> (did Novitsky give the evidence back yet like the judge ordered? I bet
> not. Woof woof!)

It's not his evidence to give back. You're thinking it is serves to
illustrate your ignorance of how the criminal legal system works. The
order directing return of materials, as I understand it, was directed by
the court to the US Attorney and the agency in possession of the records.

Might I suggest that you take a break for a while from typing for stupidity?

> --D-y


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Contador: "All I Really Need to Know About Being a Good Teammate I
Learned From Lance"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/47a2f6f02b79bc57?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 7:35 am
From: DirtRoadie


On Jul 16, 9:57 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> "DirtRoadie" <DirtRoa...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:a3b0ab38-5814-40ec-946b-294bb74d1db3@w30g2000yqw.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 16, 9:13 am, Ken Prager <pra...@ieee.org> wrote:
>
> > Vino can't be too happy right now...
>
> :: Contador was racing (and gaining time on) Schleck,  not Vino.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Vino doesn't care about Schleck.
>
> Vino cares about Vino. Did you see his gesture as he crossed the line today?
>
> Must be interesting at the Astana dinner table, although it's not as
> publicized as last year.

I'm sure Vino wanted the stage. But it's not as if Alberto should be
expected to give up a potential time gain on Schleck (or other GC
contenders) simply to accommodate Vino. Even Vino should know that.
If Schleck had hung with AC, we might have seen a different finish.
Ideally for Astana and Vino, he would have stayed with AC when caught,
and helped up the pace over the final flat. That may have even been
planned. Vino could have won the stage and AC would have gained time.
But one out of two isn't bad for them.

Vino frustrated? Sure. Angry with AC? I doubt it.

DR


DR

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Does Johan Know the Difference Between a Book and a Grand Jury?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/20c115763822f7dc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 7:46 am
From: "B. Lafferty"


Pour une fois, Johan Bruyneel n'a pas les clés du Tour en main. Une
position inhabituelle pour le directeur sportif de RadioShack, qui
voyait Lance Armstrong sur le podium à Paris s'il n'avait pas chuté sur
la 8e étape, à Avoriaz. Dans les colonnes de L'Equipe de samedi, le
Belge veut voir le bon côté des choses : «C'est vrai qu'on n'a plus le
poids de la course. Je n'avais jamais connu cette situation. Au début,
c'est un sentiment étrange mais finalement ce n'est pas plus mal. On est
plus relax le soir à l'hôtel, on a le temps de vivre.»
Le manager de 45 ans a expliqué que les accusations portées par Floyd
Landis contre lui et l'Américain ne l'atteignaient pas. «On a déjà connu
ça en 2004, avec la parution d'un livre violent contre lui. Ce n'était
pas agréable mais ça ne nous avait pas déstabilisés outre mesure. On
sait y faire. (...) Landis ne nous a pas surpris. Cela fait deux ans
qu'il nous menace et même, depuis 2006, il nous harcèle pour nous
demander soit une place dans l'équipe, soit de l'argent.»

Bruyneel, technicien singulier, est soit craint, soit décrié dans le
milieu du cyclisme. Ses méthodes de chef d'entreprise lui valent
quelques critiques. «Les critiques me fatiguent mais, depuis le temps,
je suis immunisé, lance-t-il. (...) Je suis peut-être isolé mais il faut
savoir faire évoluer notre sport.»
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2010/20100717_122635_bruyneel-n-a-pas-peur-de-landis.html


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 7:57 am
From: Anton Berlin


On Jul 17, 9:46 am, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> Pour une fois, Johan Bruyneel n'a pas les clés du Tour en main. Une
> position inhabituelle pour le directeur sportif de RadioShack, qui
> voyait Lance Armstrong sur le podium à Paris s'il n'avait pas chuté sur
> la 8e étape, à Avoriaz. Dans les colonnes de L'Equipe de samedi, le
> Belge veut voir le bon côté des choses : «C'est vrai qu'on n'a plus le
> poids de la course. Je n'avais jamais connu cette situation. Au début,
> c'est un sentiment étrange mais finalement ce n'est pas plus mal. On est
> plus relax le soir à l'hôtel, on a le temps de vivre.»
> Le manager de 45 ans a expliqué que les accusations portées par Floyd
> Landis contre lui et l'Américain ne l'atteignaient pas. «On a déjà connu
> ça en 2004, avec la parution d'un livre violent contre lui. Ce n'était
> pas agréable mais ça ne nous avait pas déstabilisés outre mesure. On
> sait y faire. (...) Landis ne nous a pas surpris. Cela fait deux ans
> qu'il nous menace et même, depuis 2006, il nous harcèle pour nous
> demander soit une place dans l'équipe, soit de l'argent.»
>
> Bruyneel, technicien singulier, est soit craint, soit décrié dans le
> milieu du cyclisme. Ses méthodes de chef d'entreprise lui valent
> quelques critiques. «Les critiques me fatiguent mais, depuis le temps,
> je suis immunisé, lance-t-il. (...) Je suis peut-être isolé mais il faut
> savoir faire évoluer notre sport.»http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2010/20100717_122635_bruyneel-n-...

Sorry mate but this is the least effective post you ever placed.


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 10:04 am
From: Phil H


On Jul 17, 7:57 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 17, 9:46 am, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Pour une fois, Johan Bruyneel n'a pas les clés du Tour en main. Une
> > position inhabituelle pour le directeur sportif de RadioShack, qui
> > voyait Lance Armstrong sur le podium à Paris s'il n'avait pas chuté sur
> > la 8e étape, à Avoriaz. Dans les colonnes de L'Equipe de samedi, le
> > Belge veut voir le bon côté des choses : «C'est vrai qu'on n'a plus le
> > poids de la course. Je n'avais jamais connu cette situation. Au début,
> > c'est un sentiment étrange mais finalement ce n'est pas plus mal. On est
> > plus relax le soir à l'hôtel, on a le temps de vivre.»
> > Le manager de 45 ans a expliqué que les accusations portées par Floyd
> > Landis contre lui et l'Américain ne l'atteignaient pas. «On a déjà connu
> > ça en 2004, avec la parution d'un livre violent contre lui. Ce n'était
> > pas agréable mais ça ne nous avait pas déstabilisés outre mesure. On
> > sait y faire. (...) Landis ne nous a pas surpris. Cela fait deux ans
> > qu'il nous menace et même, depuis 2006, il nous harcèle pour nous
> > demander soit une place dans l'équipe, soit de l'argent.»
>
> > Bruyneel, technicien singulier, est soit craint, soit décrié dans le
> > milieu du cyclisme. Ses méthodes de chef d'entreprise lui valent
> > quelques critiques. «Les critiques me fatiguent mais, depuis le temps,
> > je suis immunisé, lance-t-il. (...) Je suis peut-être isolé mais il faut
> > savoir faire évoluer notre sport.»http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2010/20100717_122635_bruyneel-n-...
>
> Sorry mate but this is the least effective post you ever placed.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

http://webtranslation.paralink.com/

Phil H


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 12:57 pm
From: Keith


On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 10:46:33 -0400, "B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>Pour une fois, Johan Bruyneel n'a pas les clŽs du Tour en main. Une
>position inhabituelle pour le directeur sportif de RadioShack, qui
>voyait Lance Armstrong sur le podium ˆ Paris s'il n'avait pas chutŽ sur
>la 8e Žtape, ˆ Avoriaz. Dans les colonnes de L'Equipe de samedi, le
>Belge veut voir le bon c™tŽ des choses : ÇC'est vrai qu'on n'a plus le
>poids de la course. Je n'avais jamais connu cette situation. Au dŽbut,
>c'est un sentiment Žtrange mais finalement ce n'est pas plus mal. On est
>plus relax le soir ˆ l'h™tel, on a le temps de vivre.È
>Le manager de 45 ans a expliquŽ que les accusations portŽes par Floyd
>Landis contre lui et l'AmŽricain ne l'atteignaient pas. ÇOn a dŽjˆ connu
> a en 2004, avec la parution d'un livre violent contre lui. Ce n'Žtait
>pas agrŽable mais a ne nous avait pas dŽstabilisŽs outre mesure. On
>sait y faire. (...) Landis ne nous a pas surpris. Cela fait deux ans
>qu'il nous menace et m me, depuis 2006, il nous harc le pour nous
>demander soit une place dans l'Žquipe, soit de l'argent.È
>
>Bruyneel, technicien singulier, est soit craint, soit dŽcriŽ dans le
>milieu du cyclisme. Ses mŽthodes de chef d'entreprise lui valent
>quelques critiques. ÇLes critiques me fatiguent mais, depuis le temps,
>je suis immunisŽ, lance-t-il. (...) Je suis peut- tre isolŽ mais il faut
>savoir faire Žvoluer notre sport.È
>http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2010/20100717_122635_bruyneel-n-a-pas-peur-de-landis.html

Thanks, yes JB and Cie are in a little world of their own...that's
about to change...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: newbie question: TdF website
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/d431280c7ed96478?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 8:06 am
From: Neil Gerace


Davey Crockett wrote:

>
> But the Red circles represent climbs or cols/mountains

Low number = higher category (steeper climb)?

> The Green represent intermediate and the final sprint
>
> They match the jerseys for the current leader of the competitions

Yes I think that's what I was looking for, thanks :)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Vino
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bc6b2f33f94e7971?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 8:17 am
From: Davey Crockett

Davey's faith in Justice is fully restored

--
Four more banks in the United States have been shut down,
bringing the number of failed banks to 90 so far this year.


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 9:22 am
From: S Perryman


Davey Crockett wrote:

> Davey's faith in Justice is fully restored

His mental ability to dust himself down and start again doesn't seem to be
in doubt.

Although this does now appear to be a genuine Vino trait, and not in
the knowing that tomorrow he can always reach into the blood bank to
redress the matter. Perhaps this truly is Nemesis in action.


Regards,
Steven Perryman

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fear for Armstrong
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/90cce6a414f9dc54?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 7:58 am
From: S Perryman


Another tumble today (right at the beginning) , and 4+ mins lost at the
end on a flattish stage.

This does not augur well for reaching Paris with some sense of dignity.
Hopefully he'll be able to stay with the "bus" on the nasty stages in
the Pyrenees.


Regards,
Steven Perryman


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 9:32 am
From: Superfly TNT


On Jul 17, 7:58 am, S Perryman <a...@a.net> wrote:
> Another tumble today (right at the beginning) , and 4+ mins lost at the
> end on a flattish stage.
>
> This does not augur well for reaching Paris with some sense of dignity.
> Hopefully he'll be able to stay with the "bus" on the nasty stages in
> the Pyrenees.
>
> Regards,
> Steven Perryman

Armstrong is a dick. He'll get what's coming on him soon enough. Oh
wait, I used the wrong preposition. He'll get what's coming to him
soon enough.

Bisous Bisous from France
Superfly TNT

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tour de France, stage 12 summary
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f606595cc3e7eaa9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 10:20 am
From: DirtRoadie


On Jul 17, 1:06 am, Bob Martin <bob.mar...@excite.com> wrote:
> in 322659 20100717 050158 "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com> wrote:

> He is, but his GC time didn't change, did it?

Isn't that cool!? The GC leader can lose 10 secs to second place yet
still be at 0 seconds relative to the GC leader.

DR


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tour de France, stage 13 summary
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3876292e9fbc1d8f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 10:21 am
From: Bob Martin



Stage 13 : Jul 17, Rodez - Revel, 196 km

1 Alexander Vinokourov (Kaz) Astana 4.26.26
2 Mark Cavendish (GBr) Team HTC - Columbia 0.13
3 Alessandro Petacchi (Ita) Lampre-Farnese Vini
4 Edvald Boasson Hagen (Nor) Sky Professional Cycling Team
5 Jose Joaquin Rojas Gil (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne
6 Julian Dean (NZl) Garmin - Transitions
7 Anthony Geslin (Fra) Francaise des Jeux
8 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Cervelo Test Team
9 Grega Bole (Slo) Lampre-Farnese Vini
10 Lloyd Mondory (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale


Changes in GC, stage 13 compared to stage 12 :

Biggest gainers by position :
+10 Grega Bole
+9 Ruben Perez Moreno
+9 Lloyd Mondory
+9 Julian Dean
+8 Martin Elmiger
+8 Francesco Gavazzi
+7 Thor Hushovd
+7 Martijn Maaskant
+7 Jurgen Roelandts
+7 Gerald Ciolek

Biggest losers by position :
-18 Daniel Navarro Garcia
-17 Christophe Kern
-15 David De La Fuente Rasilla
-11 Tony Martin
-9 Maxim Iglinskiy
-9 Paolo Tiralongo
-8 Maxime Bouet
-7 Brent Bookwalter
-7 Kanstantsin Siutsou
-6 Amael Moinard
-6 Mauro Santambrogio

Biggest gainers by time :
+0:13 Alexander Vinokourov

Biggest losers by time :
-12:05 Christophe Kern
-12:05 Daniel Navarro Garcia
-12:05 David De La Fuente Rasilla
-12:05 Jesus Hernandez Blazquez
-9:30 David Millar
-9:30 Marcus Burghardt
-9:30 Tony Martin
-7:10 Alan Perez Lezaun
-7:10 Amael Moinard
-7:10 Dmitriy Muravyev
-7:10 Iban Mayoz Echeverria

Favourites by position :
-4 Lance Armstrong

Favourites by time :
-4:22 Lance Armstrong

Top 10 and favourites GC standings (previous stage in parens) :
1 Andy Schleck 63:08:40 (unchanged)
2 Alberto Contador Velasco 0:31 (unchanged)
3 Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez 2:45 (unchanged)
4 Denis Menchov 2:58 (unchanged)
5 Jurgen Van Den Broeck 3:31 (unchanged)
6 Levi Leipheimer 4:06 (unchanged)
7 Robert Gesink 4:27 (unchanged)
8 Joaquin Rodriguez 4:58 (unchanged)
9 Luis Leon Sanchez Gil 5:02 (unchanged)
10 Roman Kreuziger 5:16 (unchanged)
11 Ivan Basso 5:30 (unchanged)
.....
15 Carlos Sastre 7:34 (unchanged)
16 Bradley Wiggins 7:39 (unchanged)
.....
18 Cadel Evans 8:08 (unchanged)
.....
20 Andreas Kloden 9:05 (unchanged)
.....
36 Lance Armstrong 25:38 (was 32nd at 21:16)

Top 10 on Points table with previous in parens:
1 Alessandro Petacchi 187 (was 2nd with 161 points)
2 Thor Hushovd 185 (was 1st with 167 points)
3 Mark Cavendish 162 (was 4th with 132 points)
4 Jose Joaquin Rojas Gil 144 (was 5th with 122 points)
5 Robbie McEwen 138 (was 3rd with 138 points)
6 Edvald Boasson Hagen 120 (was 7th with 96 points)
7 Gerald Ciolek 102 (was 8th with 87 points)
8 Sebastien Turgot 101 (was 6th with 101 points)
9 Jurgen Roelandts 81 (was 14th with 68 points)
10 Alberto Contador Velasco 80 (was 9th with 79 points)

Top 10 on Mountains table with previous in parens:
1 Anthony Charteau 107 (unchanged)
2 Jerome Pineau 92 (unchanged)
3 Mario Aerts 65 (was 5th with 58 points)
4 Andy Schleck 64 (was 3rd with 64 points)
5 Christophe Moreau 62 (was 4th with 62 points)
6 Sandy Casar 56 (unchanged)
7 Damiano Cunego 56 (unchanged)
8 Alberto Contador Velasco 52 (unchanged)
9 Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez 50 (unchanged)
10 Luis Leon Sanchez Gil 48 (was 10th with 47 points)

Retirements to date : Stage
Rein Taaramae (Est) Cofidis, Le Credit en Ligne 13 <<<
Samuel Dumoulin (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit en Ligne 12
Tyler Farrar (USA) Garmin - Transitions 12
Charles Wegelius (GBr) Omega Pharma-Lotto 11
Mark Renshaw (Aus) Team HTC - Columbia 11
Robert Hunter (RSA) Garmin - Transitions 11
Fabio Felline (Ita) Footon-Servetto 9
Markus Eibegger (Aut) Footon-Servetto 9
Roger Kluge (Ger) Team Milram 9
Simon Gerrans (Aus) Sky Professional Cycling Team 9
Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Team Katusha 9
Juan Jose Oroz Ugalde (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 7
Stijn Vandenbergh (Bel) Team Katusha 7
Amets Txurruka (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 5
Christian Vande Velde (USA) Garmin - Transitions 3
David Le Lay (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 3
Frank Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 3
Niki Terpstra (Ned) Team Milram 3
Adam Hansen (Aus) Team HTC - Columbia 2
Mickael Delage (Fra) Omega Pharma-Lotto 2
Manuel Cardoso (Spa) Footon-Servetto 1
Mathias Frank (Swi) BMC Racing Team 1
Total retirements : 22


(This report can also be seen at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rvmartin2)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Breakaways
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3b5a543b4ddb9903?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 10:24 am
From: "John Dean"


Commentators always seem to make a big fuss about riders breaking away from
the peloton at an early stage. Apart from the 'contre la montre' stages,
does anyone remember a TdF stage where there *wasn't* an early breakaway by
one or more guys? Isn't it something that happens every time?
--
John Dean
Oxford


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 11:34 am
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd


On Jul 17, 7:24 pm, "John Dean" <john-d...@fraglineone.net> wrote:
> Commentators always seem to make a big fuss about riders breaking away from
> the peloton at an early stage. Apart from the 'contre la montre' stages,
> does anyone remember a TdF stage where there *wasn't* an early breakaway by
> one or more guys? Isn't it something that happens every time?

Dumbass,

Yes, it happens every time. Sometimes the breakaway is
caught, sometimes it stays away and the race is won from
the break. It depends on how much the peloton cares to
chase and whether the terrain and race circumstances
favors an organized chase.

Commentators make a big deal about the early break for
one reason. You can't win a bike race except by being in
the front group. So even if the breakaway seems like a
bunch of no-hopers, you never know. The commentators'
job is to talk about the racers in a position to win the race
on that day, and races are won from the front.

And that (plus "Pull or get dropped, then") is pretty much
what you need to know to follow bike racing. The rest you
can figure out from these basic principles and a bit of thought.

Fredcyclingcoach Ben

==============================================================================
TOPIC: To B. Lafferty
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/61083c731b27cf7e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 10:33 am
From: DirtRoadie


Have you thought of starting another group -
rec.bicycles.racing.politics? I know you are familiar with the
precedent for that. Anyone who is interested can follow or
participate there. (Unless of course, you are just an exhibitionist
demanding attention from others who mostly find your posts annoying.)

That way this group can actually be focused on the racing which is
taking place in the meantime, and which (believe it or not) will
continue with or without Lance.

If I just wanted the latest online news on one particular subject, I
would would set up one or more Google news alerts using appropriate
keywords such as "Lance Armstrong doping investigation"
See
http://www.google.com/alerts


DR


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 12:38 pm
From: "GoneBeforeMyTime"


DirtRoadie wrote:
> Have you thought of starting another group -
> rec.bicycles.racing.politics? I know you are familiar with the
> precedent for that. Anyone who is interested can follow or
> participate there. (Unless of course, you are just an exhibitionist
> demanding attention from others who mostly find your posts annoying.)
>
> That way this group can actually be focused on the racing which is
> taking place in the meantime, and which (believe it or not) will
> continue with or without Lance.
>
> If I just wanted the latest online news on one particular subject, I
> would would set up one or more Google news alerts using appropriate
> keywords such as "Lance Armstrong doping investigation"
> See
> http://www.google.com/alerts
>
>
> DR

He's doing it for free here. On TV, I guess they get paid to comment on
Larry King, and King's show would be edited. They would not allows any or
all comments, info, etc. that Laff provides. Rbr has been a forum massively
skewed by doping threads for years now, not bike racing. I don't mind Laff
providing the feed here since it is after all a doping newsgroup. I find it
more interesting content then all the massive amount of Liz Hatch threads
and other nonsense. His stuff is pretty much straight talk, links, facts,
etc. For those who want to follow the course of the investigation, Laff's
providing and highlighting that.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Thank you, Vino ...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/881345a785a226e8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 10:48 am
From: Jimmy July


...for helping me PROVE what a bunch of hypocrites post in RBR!

A proven DOPER wins a stage in the TdF and not one ounce of vitriol is
expended. No one cares in the slightest bit that a doper has won yet
another stage. I am SHOCKED at the total lack of indignation!

You're all too busy getting your panties in a wad over what LANCE did or
didn't do in 2003 to even notice. Here's why:

You guys don't care about doping, you just hate LANCE!
------

I'm Jimmy July, and I OWN this month and all you monkeys in it!


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 11:50 am
From: Cicero Venatio


Jimmy July wrote:
> ...for helping me PROVE what a bunch of hypocrites post in RBR!
>
> A proven DOPER wins a stage in the TdF and not one ounce of vitriol is
> expended. No one cares in the slightest bit that a doper has won yet
> another stage. I am SHOCKED at the total lack of indignation!
>
> You're all too busy getting your panties in a wad over what LANCE did or
> didn't do in 2003 to even notice. Here's why:
>
> You guys don't care about doping, you just hate LANCE!
> ------
>
> I'm Jimmy July, and I OWN this month and all you monkeys in it!
------------------

We just want the truth, but for some reason there is some force out
there that thinks we can't handle the truth.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Farrar, hand off the bar
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/d0663efc55b28af3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 17 2010 11:02 am
From: --D-y


On Jul 17, 3:33 am, Frederick the Great <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article <YOURhoward-F5B709.22542916072...@news.giganews.com>,
>  "H. Fred Kveck" <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <d3e11759-5348-4402-9ac2-88751e7e1...@g35g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
> >  --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > > Well, I finally saw a head-on shot and Farrar's hand off the bars,
> > > pushing Renshaw. That should have been enough to get him DQ'd, also.
> > > Contrary to Bob Roll's "he had to do that to save himself". Disagree--
> > > "hit the brakes, Tyler".
>
> >    Tom, if you watch the overhead shots, Renshaw glances back to his left and makes a
> > quick direction change into the oncoming Farrar. Farrar put his hand on Renshaw's hip
> > because it happened when Farrar was about a foot and a half from being even with
> > Renshaw. He was trying to keep from being pushed into the barriers. Due to the speed
> > of Renshaw's sideways move, hitting the brakes would not have been enough to keep
> > Renshaw from colliding with Farrar.
>
> > > Dean should have been DQ'd, also, for moving over in the first place.
> > > Which as Sherwen pointed out, was also a serious offense, and the
> > > first one, deliberately aimed at shutting Cav out.
>
> >    I think Dean's move was gradual enough that Renshaw should have been able to
> > negate it simply by holding his line. The multiple head knocking was unecessary.
> > Renshaw's attempt to hook Farrar after seemed retaliatory to me. Anyway, while the
> > line changing is what got Renshaw deked, the officials *really* don't want the public
> > seeing the race degenerate into a physical brawl on a level with WWE. The head butts
> > were far more obvious to the average viewer than line changes.
>
> For Pete's sake. Are you going rational on us?

Forgive him, he knoweth not what he does. Here.
--D-y


==============================================================================

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:3545 Trawlers-to-go-hi-tech-this-seasonSaturday,

Buzz It
Trawlers-to-go-hi-tech-this-seasonSaturday,
http://www.oheraldo.in/news/Local%20News/Trawlers-to-go-hi-tech-this-season/38925.html


--
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[socialactionfoundationforequity:3545 Pros and cons of caste based census debated

Buzz It
Pros and cons of caste based census debated
http://www.navhindtimes.in/ilive/pros-and-cons-caste-based-census-debated

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