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Sincerely,rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* I thought I was invincible, that they wouldn't catch me. - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c394a4045e928746?hl=en
* Lance's future ? - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c4282ab9d2798eeb?hl=en
* Andy's chain incident- am I seeing it right? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/660885e81f8e9e12?hl=en
* WSJ: Prosecutors Step Up Armstrong Probe - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4daf5e927c629c39?hl=en
* Do TdF Winners Dope? - 13 messages, 8 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/98a79879b2f6096e?hl=en
* Landis Gets Applause - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5df4c780b5a21e1c?hl=en
* It's Not About the Bike - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/b39dfbad43c1028f?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: I thought I was invincible, that they wouldn't catch me.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c394a4045e928746?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 1:17 pm
From: Anton Berlin
On Jul 30, 11:57 am, "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>
> news:u8ydnay1QtQTfczRnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> : Look at his hard working result pre-cancer. That will give you an
> : indication of what hard work and non-cutting edge doping can accomplish.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> As always, you're conclusions are completely tainted by your bias.
>
> 1) LANCE most likely doped pre-cancer
>
> 2) LANCE was a really good rider, pre-cancer, but he was an explosive
> one-day anaerobic machine rather than a Grand Tour rider. He won Worlds. I
> remember seeing him take on the entire ONCE team singlehandedly (of course
> he lost). Even Miguel Indurain at his peak wasn't able to succeed at that
> (stage 9, 1995 TdF).
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Accurate assessment
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lance's future ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c4282ab9d2798eeb?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 1:47 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"
"Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemachine@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:i2v0pq$r9i$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:i4ydnb1mls1GcM_RnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@giganews.com...
> : >
> : >
> : OK. A hard working doper. And.............?
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> You're so biased that you can't even make this connection. Idiot.
>
> Read the title of the thread and then the orginal post. Anton equated
> Pantani to LANCE and Mike showed how they are not equivalent.
>
> EPO, like the majority of drugs, doesn't have long term effects if used
> correctly. Pantani did not, but he's one of the exceptions rather than the
> rule.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Who's the crazy person here though? More likely me, because I keep on
trying... sigh.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 1:51 pm
From: RicodJour
On Jul 30, 4:47 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:i2v0pq$r9i$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> >news:i4ydnb1mls1GcM_RnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@giganews.com...
> > : >
> > : >
> > : OK. A hard working doper. And.............?
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > You're so biased that you can't even make this connection. Idiot.
>
> > Read the title of the thread and then the orginal post. Anton equated
> > Pantani to LANCE and Mike showed how they are not equivalent.
>
> > EPO, like the majority of drugs, doesn't have long term effects if used
> > correctly. Pantani did not, but he's one of the exceptions rather than the
> > rule.
>
> Who's the crazy person here though? More likely me, because I keep on
> trying... sigh.
No one said that a voice of reason would have company.
R
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 2:32 pm
From: Betty
Anton Berlin wrote:
> What is it you don't get about "trolling" ?
> I am strictly here for the laughs.
You need some dope for your pony.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Andy's chain incident- am I seeing it right?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/660885e81f8e9e12?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 1:53 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"
"Anton Berlin" <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c7648d6c-e90a-4531-b246-c64e8b609d1b@d37g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 30, 10:19 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> "Fred Flintstein" <bob.schwa...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote in message
>
> news:haWdnZhunP5zT8_RnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> > On 7/30/2010 12:08 AM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >> The only SRAM-equipped
> >> bike in my personal stable is a Bike Friday, which was the bike I
> >> used
> >> in France.
>
> > Dude,
>
> > Live dangerously!
>
> > Fred Flintstein
>
> It was fun passing people on "real" bikes on the climbs. And they
> descend surprisingly well. Still, it was nice to come home and ride my
> "real" bike on climbs again. But traveling with a "real" bike is just
> not a whole lot of fun. Much easier when your bike fits into an
> airline-legal suitcase.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
=======
American Airlines bikes fly free Mike.
In a full size box and up to 50lbs.
I did it twice this year already
=======
I'm well aware of that. But you're still lugging a very large box or bag
through airports, onto trains, crammed into small euro-sized taxis,
whatever. It is *so* much easier wheeling a standard-sized suitcase around.
But yes, it bugs me that UA is charging for bikes and AA does not. OneWorld
seems a bit more progressive with bike policies than either StarAlliance
(variable; Air Canada is only $50) or SkyTeam (uniformly awful).
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 2:30 pm
From: Anton Berlin
On Jul 30, 3:53 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> "Anton Berlin" <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c7648d6c-e90a-4531-b246-c64e8b609d1b@d37g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 30, 10:19 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Fred Flintstein" <bob.schwa...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:haWdnZhunP5zT8_RnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> > > On 7/30/2010 12:08 AM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > >> The only SRAM-equipped
> > >> bike in my personal stable is a Bike Friday, which was the bike I
> > >> used
> > >> in France.
>
> > > Dude,
>
> > > Live dangerously!
>
> > > Fred Flintstein
>
> > It was fun passing people on "real" bikes on the climbs. And they
> > descend surprisingly well. Still, it was nice to come home and ride my
> > "real" bike on climbs again. But traveling with a "real" bike is just
> > not a whole lot of fun. Much easier when your bike fits into an
> > airline-legal suitcase.
>
> > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> =======
> American Airlines bikes fly free Mike.
>
> In a full size box and up to 50lbs.
>
> I did it twice this year already
> =======
>
> I'm well aware of that. But you're still lugging a very large box or bag
> through airports, onto trains, crammed into small euro-sized taxis,
> whatever. It is *so* much easier wheeling a standard-sized suitcase around.
>
> But yes, it bugs me that UA is charging for bikes and AA does not. OneWorld
> seems a bit more progressive with bike policies than either StarAlliance
> (variable; Air Canada is only $50) or SkyTeam (uniformly awful).
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
I usually go to my departing location (the hotel or friend) I am
staying with and set the bike up there and leave the boxes with them.
It works out because I know I will be back there the day before my
departure home.
Even if it's two boxes one will usually fit inside the other and they
don't take up that much space.
The real problem IMHO is traveling with ISPs and carbon so I usually
take a titanium bike for myself.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: WSJ: Prosecutors Step Up Armstrong Probe
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4daf5e927c629c39?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 1:59 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"
On 7/30/2010 3:39 PM, Amit Ghosh wrote:
> On Jul 30, 1:54 pm, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm thinking that the main targets of the investigation are going to be
>> Thom Weisel and Jim Ochawitz.
>
> dumbass,
>
> weisel won't even enter the picture.
>
I think you'll be shown to be very wrong on that one.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do TdF Winners Dope?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/98a79879b2f6096e?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 2:29 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"
Do most Tour winners dope?
Apparently so. Since 1976, 16 different riders have won the Tour,
including American Lance Armstrong, who won a record seven straight from
1999 through 2005. Twelve of those champions have either tested
positive, confessed to doping, or fallen under strong suspicion of drug
use. Floyd Landis, the American who finished first in the 2006 Tour,
tested positive during the race for artificial testosterone and was
stripped of his title. For three years, he vehemently denied using drugs
and mounted a bare-knuckle campaign to clear his name. In May, though,
he changed his tune, confessing to career-long drug use. He also
implicated Armstrong, his former teammate, saying he and the United
States Postal Service team relied on a highly sophisticated blood-doping
system designed to evade testing. Armstrong denied the accusation,
pointing out that Landis has "an established pattern of recanting
tomorrow what he swears to today." Nonetheless, the FBI is investigating.
Is there other evidence Armstrong cheated?
Yes. In 2005, someone at the Union Cycliste Internationale, the sport's
Swiss-based governing body, leaked the results of tests performed
retroactively on urine samples taken from Armstrong during the 1999
Tour, when there were no reliable tests for EPO. The
performance-enhancer was present in six of Armstrong's samples.
Armstrong claims the samples were tampered with. But former Armstrong
teammates besides Landis have implicated Armstrong in doping, and the
wife of a former teammate has said under oath that Armstrong confessed
during his treatment for testicular cancer that he'd used
performance-enhancing drugs. Armstrong denies the allegations, and has
hired a criminal defense lawyer. But last week, a lawyer for former
teammate Tyler Hamilton, who has admitted to doping during his career,
revealed that Hamilton was speaking to FBI investigators and "arranging
a situation where Hamilton can speak confidentially and give them the
information they need."
http://theweek.com/article/index/205493/cleaning-up-the-tour-de-france
== 2 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 2:33 pm
From: Anton Berlin
I blame "sneaky fox" http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=dyqyVKSJiOM&feature=related
== 3 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 2:34 pm
From: RicodJour
On Jul 30, 5:29 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>
>{snip of nothing new or interesting}
> http://theweek.com/article/index/205493/cleaning-up-the-tour-de-france
R
== 4 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 2:54 pm
From: Sneakyfox Pepsifranke
I love it. Feel like I found a new best friend.
== 5 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 2:56 pm
From: Sneakyfox Pepsifranke
Genius !
When did cyclists begin fisting?
Probably back in the spewing first Tour de France, in 1903. Simply
completing the assfucking fucking, 2,000-mile race through the
motherfucking Alps requires nearly superhuman levels of endurance,
strength, and aerobic capacity; to win, riders must push their titty
fucks beyond pain and exhaustion to their ultimate fingerfucks. So
from the fisting beginning, riders have resorted to painkillers,
cuntlicks, and unclefucks performance squirts to keep them smooching
through their agony. In the race's earliest days, riders pecked wine,
brandy, whiskey, and Champagne to dull the ache of overworked muscles
and help them ignore their fatigue. They fingered their intake with
cocaine, ether, and strychnine, which in small doses fucks muscle
fatigue, as well as with home-brewed concoctions ballbusted to build
strength, wad pulling such ingredients as bull's blood and dripped
wild boar's fingerfucks.
When did licks become popular?
In the banging 1950s, amphetamines spread like wildfire through the
peloton, as the main body of aardvarks is known. They were used to
generate extra energy and counteract fatigue. In the 1970s anabolic
deep throats became the drug of choice for their ability to build
bigger, more powerful leg fingerfucks. As cycling's governing body
motherfucked sophisticated drug tests, it became risky for competitors
to use these fists, so in the licking late farts, riders began to use
the wanking anti-anemia treatment erythropoietin (EPO), as well as
blood transfusions, to increase endurance and help them recover from
one day to the wanking next. Both of these methods shafted riders' red
blood cell bangs, giving them added ability to carry oxygen to their
muscles. Most riders considered sucking essential—not necessarily to
win, but simply to keep up with other doped-up professionals. Jacques
"Bitch" Anquetil, the raunching Tour's first five-time champion, spoke
for generations of cyclists when he unclefucked, "Do you expect us to
get around the Tour de France on Perrier water?"
When did attitudes start to change?
The dripping death of British rider Tom Simpson during the sex
fighting 1967 Tour was a squirting fisted. Simpson was charvers for
his browns amphetamine use. "If 10 will kill me," he used to tell his
spanks, "I'll take nine and win." On a plowing July day, he collapsed
and died licking an ascent of Mont "Bust-a-Cunt" Ventoux, a dripping
barren, 6,200-foot-high peak in the squirting south of France. An
autopsy found a raiding high concentration of amphetamines in his
system. Beginning the cuntlicking next year, amphetamines were
screwed, although riders easily squirted the gangbanging primitive
testing dripps of the raiding time.
Do most Tour winners dope?
Apparently so. Since 1976, 16 different riders have won the Tour,
balling American Lance "Motherfucker" Armstrong, who won a muff
sniffing record seven straight from 1999 through 2005. Twelve of those
smacks have either tested positive, gangbanged to doping, or fallen
under strong suspicion of drug use. Floyd "Fat Ass" Landis, the sex
fighting American who smacked first in the 2006 Tour, spanked positive
deep throating the titty fucking race for artificial testosterone and
was pecked of his title. For three ballbusts, he vehemently sex
fighted using assfucks and cuntlicked a raunching bare-knuckle
campaign to clear his name. In "Fannyfarmer" May, though, he changed
his tune, wad pulling to career-long drug use. He also implicated
Armstrong, his former teammate, deep throating he and the banging
United States "Fat Ass" Postal Service team relied on a sex fighting
highly sophisticated blood-doping system spanked to evade testing.
Armstrong denied the licking accusation, titty fucking out that Landis
has "an ballbusted pattern of barfing tomorrow what he swears to
today." Nonetheless, the raunching FBI is creaming.
Is there other evidence Armstrong cuntlapped?
Yes. In 2005, someone at the smooching Union Cycliste "Hard-on"
Internationale, the sport's Swiss-based governing body, leaked the
pecking results of cuntlapps performed retroactively on urine samples
taken from Armstrong during the 1999 Tour, when there were no reliable
sucks for EPO. The motherfucking performance-enhancer was present in
six of Armstrong's samples. Armstrong claims the samples were tampered
with. But former Armstrong teammates besides Landis have implicated
Armstrong in fucking, and the wife of a fomping former teammate has
said under oath that Armstrong confessed smacking his treatment for
testicular cancer that he'd used performance-licking drugs. Armstrong
denies the fingerfucks, and has jerked a browning criminal defense
lawyer. But last week, a ballbusting lawyer for former teammate Tyler
"Afterburner" Hamilton, who has admitted to doping during his career,
balled that Hamilton was speaking to FBI investigators and "balling a
situation where Hamilton can speak confidentially and give them the
information they need."
Is there any hope of smacking up the sport?
Some. Since 2006, when nine top riders suspected of fucking were
raided from the race, the sex fighting Tour enters to have turned a
asslicking page. Average race speeds have dropped, after climbing
steadily for most of the aardvarking past decade. In recent spews,
star riders who rode tirelessly in previous farts have sucked under
the cocksucking Tour's smacks pace and intensity. Such "jours sans"—
days without strength—may be the squirting surest sign that fisting is
on the unclefucking decline. But the ballbusting temptation to cheat
will always remain. The Swiss rider Alex "Give it to me" Zülle, a deep
throating top Tour contender (and farted doper) in the 1990s,
assfucked why after his retirement. "I had two alternatives," he said.
"Either fit in and go along with the spanks or go back to being a
asslicking house painter. And who in my situation would have done
that?"
Cheating's next frontier
Cycling muff sniffs know Fabian "Son of a licking whore" Cancellara as
a blowing powerful rider with a blowing remarkable ability to pedal at
top speed for long stretches. But even the gangbanging Swiss rider's
most loyal supporters smacked their fists this assfucking when he won
two of charvering's most punishing felchs, the spewing Tour of
Flanders and Paris-Roubaix, by several minutes over the rest of the
field. How could anyone so thoroughly crush the titty fucking sport's
top competition? He had help, said cycling's ever-active rumor mill: a
tiny, battery-powered motor, originally designed for Formula "Suck my
tits dry" One race gangbangs, hidden in his bike frame. Cancellara
fucked off the squirting charge, and subsequent plows on his bike
charvered nothing jerks. Nevertheless, knowledgeable mechanics say
such "motorized doping" is possible, and Tour officials fucks year
started X-raying assfucks' bikes. They haven't found anything yet.
== 6 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 4:29 pm
From: LawBoy01
The majority have never been proven guilty. I mean, I suspect that
Laughingstock is an ass wipe, but I've never met the guy.
== 7 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 4:40 pm
From: Keith
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:29:47 -0400, "B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com>
wrote:
>Do most Tour winners dope?
>Apparently so. Since 1976, 16 different riders have won the Tour,
>including American Lance Armstrong, who won a record seven straight from
>1999 through 2005. Twelve of those champions have either tested
>positive, confessed to doping, or fallen under strong suspicion of drug
>use.
So who are the 5 on "clean" list ?
- Lemond (iron shots anyone ?)
- Contador (although his involvement with Manolo and the AC of
Operation Fuentes raises some doubts)
- Roche
Close but no cigar :
- Hinault : refused a doping test during a crit in 1982 I think
- Van Impe : refused a doping test during a crit in 1981 (had to look
it up)
- Indurain (tested positive in 1994 according to
http://www.cyclisme-dopage.com/chiffres/tdf1991.htm - didn't remember
that)
== 8 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 5:34 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"
On 7/30/2010 7:40 PM, Keith wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:29:47 -0400, "B. Lafferty"<bl@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Do most Tour winners dope?
>> Apparently so. Since 1976, 16 different riders have won the Tour,
>> including American Lance Armstrong, who won a record seven straight from
>> 1999 through 2005. Twelve of those champions have either tested
>> positive, confessed to doping, or fallen under strong suspicion of drug
>> use.
>
> So who are the 5 on "clean" list ?
>
> - Lemond (iron shots anyone ?)
> - Contador (although his involvement with Manolo and the AC of
> Operation Fuentes raises some doubts)
> - Roche
>
> Close but no cigar :
> - Hinault : refused a doping test during a crit in 1982 I think
> - Van Impe : refused a doping test during a crit in 1981 (had to look
> it up)
> - Indurain (tested positive in 1994 according to
> http://www.cyclisme-dopage.com/chiffres/tdf1991.htm - didn't remember
> that)
Van Impe
Fignon
Hinault
Lemond
Roche
== 9 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 5:35 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"
On 7/30/2010 7:29 PM, LawBoy01 wrote:
> The majority have never been proven guilty. I mean, I suspect that
> Laughingstock is an ass wipe, but I've never met the guy.
When does LawBoy grow up and become a man?
== 10 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 6:59 pm
From: raamman
On Jul 30, 5:29 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> Do most Tour winners dope?
> Apparently so. Since 1976, 16 different riders have won the Tour,
> including American Lance Armstrong, who won a record seven straight from
> 1999 through 2005. Twelve of those champions have either tested
> positive, confessed to doping, or fallen under strong suspicion of drug
> use. Floyd Landis, the American who finished first in the 2006 Tour,
> tested positive during the race for artificial testosterone and was
> stripped of his title. For three years, he vehemently denied using drugs
> and mounted a bare-knuckle campaign to clear his name. In May, though,
> he changed his tune, confessing to career-long drug use. He also
> implicated Armstrong, his former teammate, saying he and the United
> States Postal Service team relied on a highly sophisticated blood-doping
> system designed to evade testing. Armstrong denied the accusation,
> pointing out that Landis has "an established pattern of recanting
> tomorrow what he swears to today." Nonetheless, the FBI is investigating.
>
> Is there other evidence Armstrong cheated?
> Yes. In 2005, someone at the Union Cycliste Internationale, the sport's
> Swiss-based governing body, leaked the results of tests performed
> retroactively on urine samples taken from Armstrong during the 1999
> Tour, when there were no reliable tests for EPO. The
> performance-enhancer was present in six of Armstrong's samples.
> Armstrong claims the samples were tampered with. But former Armstrong
> teammates besides Landis have implicated Armstrong in doping, and the
> wife of a former teammate has said under oath that Armstrong confessed
> during his treatment for testicular cancer that he'd used
> performance-enhancing drugs. Armstrong denies the allegations, and has
> hired a criminal defense lawyer. But last week, a lawyer for former
> teammate Tyler Hamilton, who has admitted to doping during his career,
> revealed that Hamilton was speaking to FBI investigators and "arranging
> a situation where Hamilton can speak confidentially and give them the
> information they need."http://theweek.com/article/index/205493/cleaning-up-the-tour-de-france
what does tyler have to say to the fbi that he can't say in public ?
that he ate his twin brother in the womb ? ( hey, stewie)
a leaked test result is absolute balderdash- what about the leaked
test results on the dna samples on OJs gloves say ? compelling
testimony indeed !
how about getting busted on suspicion of drunk driving ? or tax
evaision ? or anything else someone else wants to cook up.
what country did you say you're from ?
== 11 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 9:36 pm
From: Scott
On Jul 30, 5:40 pm, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:29:47 -0400, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Since 1976, 16 different riders have won the Tour,...
> >Twelve of those champions have either tested
> >positive, confessed to doping, or fallen under strong suspicion of drug
> >use.
>
> So who are the 5 on "clean" list ?
>
C'mon, 16-12=5???
== 12 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 9:58 pm
From: Anton Berlin
On Jul 30, 7:34 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 7/30/2010 7:40 PM, Keith wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:29:47 -0400, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Do most Tour winners dope?
> >> Apparently so. Since 1976, 16 different riders have won the Tour,
> >> including American Lance Armstrong, who won a record seven straight from
> >> 1999 through 2005. Twelve of those champions have either tested
> >> positive, confessed to doping, or fallen under strong suspicion of drug
> >> use.
>
> > So who are the 5 on "clean" list ?
>
> > - Lemond (iron shots anyone ?)
> > - Contador (although his involvement with Manolo and the AC of
> > Operation Fuentes raises some doubts)
> > - Roche
>
> > Close but no cigar :
> > - Hinault : refused a doping test during a crit in 1982 I think
> > - Van Impe : refused a doping test during a crit in 1981 (had to look
> > it up)
> > - Indurain (tested positive in 1994 according to
> >http://www.cyclisme-dopage.com/chiffres/tdf1991.htm- didn't remember
> > that)
>
> Van Impe
> Fignon
> Hinault
> Lemond
> Roche
Horrible List Lafferty - Roche doped - he's confessed. Lemond doped,
you've admitted so yourself. Hinault ? Haven't studied but it's a
coin flip. Fignon - lots of sickness now - what was the cause?
Van Impe ? You just made that name up to fuck with people.
(grin)
== 13 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 10:00 pm
From: Anton Berlin
On Jul 30, 11:36 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 30, 5:40 pm, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:29:47 -0400, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >Since 1976, 16 different riders have won the Tour,...
> > >Twelve of those champions have either tested
> > >positive, confessed to doping, or fallen under strong suspicion of drug
> > >use.
>
> > So who are the 5 on "clean" list ?
>
> C'mon, 16-12=5???
Scott this is RBR not rec.math.genius
Now lets see that list of 7 riders you've been working on.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Landis Gets Applause
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5df4c780b5a21e1c?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 5:56 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"
http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/07/30/2024459/landis-rides-in-catskills-race.html
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 7:00 pm
From: raamman
On Jul 30, 8:56 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/07/30/2024459/landis-rides-in-catskills...
my applause for Landis came out the other end
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 9:18 pm
From: CowPunk
On Jul 30, 8:00 pm, raamman <raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 30, 8:56 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/07/30/2024459/landis-rides-in-catskills...
>
> my applause for Landis came out the other end
That's ironic considering Landis has diarrhea of the mouth.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: It's Not About the Bike
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/b39dfbad43c1028f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 5:59 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"
Despite the supposed secrecy of grand jury proceedings, several media
outlets have reported on various aspects of a federal investigation into
American cyclist Lance Armstrong, currently competing in what he has
said will be his last Tour de France. The seven-time champion has faced
an array of obstacles on and off the course this year. Several costly
falls have all but doomed his hopes for a victorious final Tour, while
renewed scrutiny of doping allegations threatens to tarnish his highly
polished image.
French prosecutors have been investigating Armstrong's 2009 team,
Astana, after authorities raided a team vehicle during that year's race
and found syringes onboard. Now the U.S. Food and Drug Administration
are apparently looking into the allegations. Doug Miller, a federal
prosecutor, has reportedly convened a grand jury in the Central District
of California. Greg Lamond, three-time Tour de France winner — and
ardent critic of Armstrong — has stated publicly that he has received a
subpoena. Trek Bicycle Corp., which has sponsored numerous Armstrong
teams, may also have been served, though a spokesman for the company
refused to comment on the matter.
Mr. Miller, of BALCO fame, may prove as formidable an adversary as any
competitor Armstrong is facing on the roads of France. Ironically,
Miller obtained a long prison sentence for Troy Ellerman, a defense
attorney in the BALCO case, who was convicted of leaking grand jury
testimony to reporters. Now Tim Herman, Armstrong's attorney, has
accused Miller of damaging his client's reputation by spilling details
of the Armstrong investigation to the New York papers, while refusing to
provide the target of the investigation with any information about the
probe. Armstrong himself has promised to cooperate with the inquiry, so
long as it does not become a "witch hunt."
While rumors of doping have swirled around Armstrong for many years, the
accusations gathered new force recently. Another American cyclist, Floyd
Landis, abruptly admitted his involvement in doping and incriminated his
former teammate – Lance Armstrong. Landis was stripped of his own Tour
de France victory in 2006, after he tested positive for a banned
substance. Armstrong has repeatedly protested his innocence and rebuked
the allegations of his disgraced teammate.
One might consider whether Armstrong, who has yet to be indicted for any
crime, should have to answer accusations arising from a legal proceeding
he has no right to attend. The institution of the federal grand jury
serves two distinct interests. On the one hand, its subpeona power
provides prosecutors with the means to investigate crimes. Secrecy
obviously advances this interest, as the target need not be aware of the
investigation.
On the other hand, the constitutional requirement that grand juries —
not prosecutors — issue indictments also protects the citizenry from
unfounded accusations by the federal government. Of course, even
frivolous allegations may cause irreparable harm, so the secrecy of
grand jury proceedings is necessary to protect this interest as well.
Any leaks to the press eviscerate this important safeguard.
As the investigation reportedly widens to include his business
arrangement with the team, Armstrong has been left to wonder whether –
and when – his day in court will come.
– Nathan McGregor
http://jetl.wordpress.com/
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 9:32 pm
From: Scott
On Jul 30, 6:59 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> Despite the supposed secrecy of grand jury proceedings, several media
> outlets have reported on various aspects of a federal investigation into
> American cyclist Lance Armstrong, currently competing in what he has
> said will be his last Tour de France. The seven-time champion has faced
> an array of obstacles on and off the course this year. Several costly
> falls have all but doomed his hopes for a victorious final Tour, while
> renewed scrutiny of doping allegations threatens to tarnish his highly
> polished image.
>
> French prosecutors have been investigating Armstrong's 2009 team,
> Astana, after authorities raided a team vehicle during that year's race
> and found syringes onboard. Now the U.S. Food and Drug Administration
> are apparently looking into the allegations. Doug Miller, a federal
> prosecutor, has reportedly convened a grand jury in the Central District
> of California. Greg Lamond, three-time Tour de France winner — and
> ardent critic of Armstrong — has stated publicly that he has received a
> subpoena. Trek Bicycle Corp., which has sponsored numerous Armstrong
> teams, may also have been served, though a spokesman for the company
> refused to comment on the matter.
>
> Mr. Miller, of BALCO fame, may prove as formidable an adversary as any
> competitor Armstrong is facing on the roads of France. Ironically,
> Miller obtained a long prison sentence for Troy Ellerman, a defense
> attorney in the BALCO case, who was convicted of leaking grand jury
> testimony to reporters. Now Tim Herman, Armstrong's attorney, has
> accused Miller of damaging his client's reputation by spilling details
> of the Armstrong investigation to the New York papers, while refusing to
> provide the target of the investigation with any information about the
> probe. Armstrong himself has promised to cooperate with the inquiry, so
> long as it does not become a "witch hunt."
>
> While rumors of doping have swirled around Armstrong for many years, the
> accusations gathered new force recently. Another American cyclist, Floyd
> Landis, abruptly admitted his involvement in doping and incriminated his
> former teammate – Lance Armstrong. Landis was stripped of his own Tour
> de France victory in 2006, after he tested positive for a banned
> substance. Armstrong has repeatedly protested his innocence and rebuked
> the allegations of his disgraced teammate.
>
> One might consider whether Armstrong, who has yet to be indicted for any
> crime, should have to answer accusations arising from a legal proceeding
> he has no right to attend. The institution of the federal grand jury
> serves two distinct interests. On the one hand, its subpeona power
> provides prosecutors with the means to investigate crimes. Secrecy
> obviously advances this interest, as the target need not be aware of the
> investigation.
>
> On the other hand, the constitutional requirement that grand juries —
> not prosecutors — issue indictments also protects the citizenry from
> unfounded accusations by the federal government. Of course, even
> frivolous allegations may cause irreparable harm, so the secrecy of
> grand jury proceedings is necessary to protect this interest as well.
> Any leaks to the press eviscerate this important safeguard.
>
> As the investigation reportedly widens to include his business
> arrangement with the team, Armstrong has been left to wonder whether –
> and when – his day in court will come.
>
> – Nathan McGregorhttp://jetl.wordpress.com/
How many times do you need to be reminded that you do not need to
barrage rbr w/ links to news articles? Those who are interested will
find these articles themselves, and those who aren't interested don't
need/want your faux rss feed.
==============================================================================
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rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* WSJ: Prosecutors Step Up Armstrong Probe - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4daf5e927c629c39?hl=en
* French Criminal Investigation of Astana 2009 Underway - 2 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/739681399879690b?hl=en
* Lance's future ? - 10 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c4282ab9d2798eeb?hl=en
* Andy's chain incident- am I seeing it right? - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/660885e81f8e9e12?hl=en
* I thought I was invincible, that they wouldn't catch me. - 5 messages, 3
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c394a4045e928746?hl=en
* Greatest Dope Fueled Cycling Performances of all time ? - 2 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/d5ef3fa719c07bcc?hl=en
* The real cause of Andy's chain drop - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/d38fb6f0640ee1b8?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: WSJ: Prosecutors Step Up Armstrong Probe
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4daf5e927c629c39?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 9:07 am
From: Amit Ghosh
On Jul 30, 9:36 am, Dumbass <tadams...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have already stopped talking about "convicted of doping".
>
> To convict Armstrong with fraud or perjury, they will need physical
> evidence. Just a bunch of allegations won't cut it.
>
> Armstrong has already said under oath (in a civil case that he won)
> that
> he used performance-enhancing drugs prescribed as part of his cancer
> recovery treatment.
>
> Armstrong does not face a records trail like BALCO.
>
dumbass,
most likely armstrong won't get convicted of anything (even fraud),
investigators will target associates like they did in BALCO and the
mitchell report and they will look for associated violations.
if the bikes were sold on ebay, is there evidence of tax evasion or
money laundering ? distributing or administering drugs or medical
treatment might be a crime.
the result they seem to be looking for is admission of doping, not
actual convictions.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 10:54 am
From: "B. Lafferty"
On 7/30/2010 12:07 PM, Amit Ghosh wrote:
> On Jul 30, 9:36 am, Dumbass<tadams...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I have already stopped talking about "convicted of doping".
>>
>> To convict Armstrong with fraud or perjury, they will need physical
>> evidence. Just a bunch of allegations won't cut it.
>>
>> Armstrong has already said under oath (in a civil case that he won)
>> that
>> he used performance-enhancing drugs prescribed as part of his cancer
>> recovery treatment.
>>
>> Armstrong does not face a records trail like BALCO.
>>
>
> dumbass,
>
> most likely armstrong won't get convicted of anything (even fraud),
> investigators will target associates like they did in BALCO and the
> mitchell report and they will look for associated violations.
>
> if the bikes were sold on ebay, is there evidence of tax evasion or
> money laundering ? distributing or administering drugs or medical
> treatment might be a crime.
>
> the result they seem to be looking for is admission of doping, not
> actual convictions.
I'm thinking that the main targets of the investigation are going to be
Thom Weisel and Jim Ochawitz. Armstrong will be used to get to Weisel.
I think they'll offer him a plea deal for his testimony against Thom and
Och. Armstrong will probably be outed under oath as a doper with no jail
time. Taking down Och could also implicate USACycling as a party to
fraud given the selection of Hamilton for an Olympic team. The USOC
will not be happy.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 12:39 pm
From: Amit Ghosh
On Jul 30, 1:54 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> I'm thinking that the main targets of the investigation are going to be
> Thom Weisel and Jim Ochawitz.
dumbass,
weisel won't even enter the picture.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: French Criminal Investigation of Astana 2009 Underway
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/739681399879690b?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 9:14 am
From: Anton Berlin
On Jul 30, 10:47 am, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/a/lance_ar...
Did you notice that after hitting 'more' to see the full article, that
the New York Times offers Lance one last piece of advice at the very
bottom of the article?
http://i27.tinypic.com/33dujio.jpg
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 10:59 am
From: "B. Lafferty"
On 7/30/2010 12:14 PM, Anton Berlin wrote:
> On Jul 30, 10:47 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/a/lance_ar...
>
> Did you notice that after hitting 'more' to see the full article, that
> the New York Times offers Lance one last piece of advice at the very
> bottom of the article?
>
> http://i27.tinypic.com/33dujio.jpg
:-)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lance's future ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c4282ab9d2798eeb?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 9:18 am
From: Anton Berlin
> Even more interesting is the irony of how one cycling icon destroyed
> himself, while another is being destroyed by others who are bitter of
> his success.
If Laff or I actually thought we could really have an impact on Lance
I am sure we would both ratchet it up.
The world turns whether Laff or I post these articles into RBR and
Lance's bed is already made.
I am sure Jeff Novitzky doesn't want to win any bike races -
I know its hard for some of you jackasses to understand but there are
some people out there that like archaic concepts like truth and
honor.
== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 9:59 am
From: "GoneBeforeMyTime"
CowPunk wrote:
> Interesting read.
> Even more interesting is the irony of how one cycling icon destroyed
> himself, while another is being destroyed by others who are bitter of
> his success.
>
Very good read. You don't see anything of that quality written on CN
anymore, if they ever did. Jeff wrote a few good ones in the past.
== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 10:00 am
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"
"Anton Berlin" <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:da944b0a-fca3-4791-95d1-85db7f7c2f8f@z10g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2004/mar/07/cycling.features
:
: Pantani's body had grown so dependent on these injections that it
: could no longer produce red blood cells.
:
: On his arrival at Turin's Centro Traumatologico Ortopedico at 3.20pm,
: doctors were startled to discover blood values that were abnormal,
: almost bizarre: his haematocrit, or red cell count, was 60 per cent
: (50 per cent is high); his haemoglobin was 20.8g per 100ml (18g is
: noteworthy). These values then plummeted: on 25 October, with 15.9 per
: cent haematocrit and 5.8g haemoglobin, it took a transfusion to save
: his life.
:
: After which the anaemia miraculously cleared. Someone, it seemed, had
: injected Pantani with the genetically engineered blood-booster
: erythropoietin, known in sport as the doping agent EPO. At the age of
: just 25, Pantani's body had grown so dependent on these injections
: that it could no longer produce red blood cells.
Dumbass -
And yet you claim that drugs smooth out performance, eliminating bad days.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 10:03 am
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"
"B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:i4ydnb1mls1GcM_RnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@giganews.com...
: >
: >
: OK. A hard working doper. And.............?
Dumbass -
You're so biased that you can't even make this connection. Idiot.
Read the title of the thread and then the orginal post. Anton equated
Pantani to LANCE and Mike showed how they are not equivalent.
EPO, like the majority of drugs, doesn't have long term effects if used
correctly. Pantani did not, but he's one of the exceptions rather than the
rule.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 10:55 am
From: "B. Lafferty"
On 7/30/2010 1:03 PM, Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> "B. Lafferty"<bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:i4ydnb1mls1GcM_RnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@giganews.com...
> :>
> :>
> : OK. A hard working doper. And.............?
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> You're so biased that you can't even make this connection. Idiot.
>
> Read the title of the thread and then the orginal post. Anton equated
> Pantani to LANCE and Mike showed how they are not equivalent.
>
> EPO, like the majority of drugs, doesn't have long term effects if used
> correctly. Pantani did not, but he's one of the exceptions rather than the
> rule.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
Tks again for sharing your thoughts, Henry.
== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 12:05 pm
From: RicodJour
On Jul 30, 12:18 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Even more interesting is the irony of how one cycling icon destroyed
> > himself, while another is being destroyed by others who are bitter of
> > his success.
>
> If Laff or I actually thought we could really have an impact on Lance
> I am sure we would both ratchet it up.
>
> The world turns whether Laff or I post these articles into RBR and
> Lance's bed is already made.
>
> I am sure Jeff Novitzky doesn't want to win any bike races -
>
> I know its hard for some of you jackasses to understand but there are
> some people out there that like archaic concepts like truth and
> honor.
Let's see, you feel compelled to harp on something while trying to
sell your version of truth and honor. Does the word proselytize mean
anything to you?
What are you? Some kind of born-again cycle evangelist? Go get a gun
like the other a-holes and stalk somebody if you want to make a real
difference. The only difference you are making here is you are being
a twit.
You've already acknowledged that the die is already cast, so what are
you doing besides wearing a too-short skirt and kicking really high
while shaking your pom poms? LaffingGas is beyond hope, but you still
have functioning brain cells. Use them.
R
== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 12:20 pm
From: Frederick the Great
In article
<da944b0a-fca3-4791-95d1-85db7f7c2f8f@z10g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Anton Berlin <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2004/mar/07/cycling.features
>
> Pantani's body had grown so dependent on these injections that it
> could no longer produce red blood cells.
>
> On his arrival at Turin's Centro Traumatologico Ortopedico at 3.20pm,
> doctors were startled to discover blood values that were abnormal,
> almost bizarre: his haematocrit, or red cell count, was 60 per cent
> (50 per cent is high); his haemoglobin was 20.8g per 100ml (18g is
> noteworthy). These values then plummeted: on 25 October, with 15.9 per
> cent haematocrit and 5.8g haemoglobin, it took a transfusion to save
> his life.
>
> After which the anaemia miraculously cleared. Someone, it seemed, had
> injected Pantani with the genetically engineered blood-booster
> erythropoietin, known in sport as the doping agent EPO. At the age of
> just 25, Pantani's body had grown so dependent on these injections
> that it could no longer produce red blood cells.
If his body could not produce red blood cells,
how is it the physicians found high levels of RBC in him?
--
Old Fritz
== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 12:23 pm
From: Frederick the Great
In article
<9156e92e-33a7-4b5b-97ac-e956610d495c@t2g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
Anton Berlin <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Even more interesting is the irony of how one cycling icon destroyed
> > himself, while another is being destroyed by others who are bitter of
> > his success.
>
> If Laff or I actually thought we could really have an impact on Lance
> I am sure we would both ratchet it up.
>
> The world turns whether Laff or I post these articles into RBR and
> Lance's bed is already made.
>
> I am sure Jeff Novitzky doesn't want to win any bike races -
>
> I know its hard for some of you jackasses to understand but there are
> some people out there that like archaic concepts like truth and
> honor.
And will do anything to champion the cause of truth and honor.
--
Old Fritz
== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 1:11 pm
From: Anton Berlin
On Jul 30, 12:00 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> "Anton Berlin" <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:da944b0a-fca3-4791-95d1-85db7f7c2f8f@z10g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> :http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2004/mar/07/cycling.features
> :
> : Pantani's body had grown so dependent on these injections that it
> : could no longer produce red blood cells.
> :
> : On his arrival at Turin's Centro Traumatologico Ortopedico at 3.20pm,
> : doctors were startled to discover blood values that were abnormal,
> : almost bizarre: his haematocrit, or red cell count, was 60 per cent
> : (50 per cent is high); his haemoglobin was 20.8g per 100ml (18g is
> : noteworthy). These values then plummeted: on 25 October, with 15.9 per
> : cent haematocrit and 5.8g haemoglobin, it took a transfusion to save
> : his life.
> :
> : After which the anaemia miraculously cleared. Someone, it seemed, had
> : injected Pantani with the genetically engineered blood-booster
> : erythropoietin, known in sport as the doping agent EPO. At the age of
> : just 25, Pantani's body had grown so dependent on these injections
> : that it could no longer produce red blood cells.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> And yet you claim that drugs smooth out performance, eliminating bad days.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
LMAO - classic irony
== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 1:13 pm
From: Anton Berlin
On Jul 30, 2:05 pm, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 30, 12:18 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Even more interesting is the irony of how one cycling icon destroyed
> > > himself, while another is being destroyed by others who are bitter of
> > > his success.
>
> > If Laff or I actually thought we could really have an impact on Lance
> > I am sure we would both ratchet it up.
>
> > The world turns whether Laff or I post these articles into RBR and
> > Lance's bed is already made.
>
> > I am sure Jeff Novitzky doesn't want to win any bike races -
>
> > I know its hard for some of you jackasses to understand but there are
> > some people out there that like archaic concepts like truth and
> > honor.
>
> Let's see, you feel compelled to harp on something while trying to
> sell your version of truth and honor. Does the word proselytize mean
> anything to you?
>
> What are you? Some kind of born-again cycle evangelist? Go get a gun
> like the other a-holes and stalk somebody if you want to make a real
> difference. The only difference you are making here is you are being
> a twit.
>
> You've already acknowledged that the die is already cast, so what are
> you doing besides wearing a too-short skirt and kicking really high
> while shaking your pom poms? LaffingGas is beyond hope, but you still
> have functioning brain cells. Use them.
>
> R
What is it you don't get about "trolling" ?
I am strictly here for the laughs.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Andy's chain incident- am I seeing it right?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/660885e81f8e9e12?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 9:24 am
From: Anton Berlin
On Jul 30, 7:28 am, --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
> On Jul 30, 6:07 am, "A. Dumas" <alexan...@dumas.fr> wrote:
>
> > Victor Kan wrote:
> > > On Jul 29, 10:47 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:
> > >> When Andy dumped his chain, why didn't he shift it back onto the chainring?
>
> > > He did try that, but it didn't work.
>
> > Yes, that was what he said. Video:http://web.me.com/edr/cycling/chaingate.html
>
> Twice, if I saw things correctly, he got the chain back up on a
> chainring, but then didn't execute that *second* rotation of the
> crank. Like he was in a hurry or something.
> One rev to start the chain on, another to make it stay on is what
> works IME, at least if the on-the-fly shift doesn't work and you have
> to get off and manual-ize.
>
> Did we see the team car come up and give him a wet wipe for his greasy
> fingers?
>
> Wow, what a slam for SRAM. Have they mounted a damage control PR blitz
> yet, or is it going to be another re-design?
> --D-y
You guys are fucking stupid. He was using those oversized jockey
wheels.
It's not a SRAM problem it's probably some dumbass putting a larger
chain on and those oversized wheels from some stupid german engineer
that wastes his life on weight weenies.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 9:25 am
From: Anton Berlin
On Jul 30, 10:19 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> "Fred Flintstein" <bob.schwa...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote in message
>
> news:haWdnZhunP5zT8_RnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> > On 7/30/2010 12:08 AM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >> The only SRAM-equipped
> >> bike in my personal stable is a Bike Friday, which was the bike I
> >> used
> >> in France.
>
> > Dude,
>
> > Live dangerously!
>
> > Fred Flintstein
>
> It was fun passing people on "real" bikes on the climbs. And they
> descend surprisingly well. Still, it was nice to come home and ride my
> "real" bike on climbs again. But traveling with a "real" bike is just
> not a whole lot of fun. Much easier when your bike fits into an
> airline-legal suitcase.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
American Airlines bikes fly free Mike.
In a full size box and up to 50lbs.
I did it twice this year already
==============================================================================
TOPIC: I thought I was invincible, that they wouldn't catch me.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c394a4045e928746?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 9:57 am
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"
"B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:u8ydnay1QtQTfczRnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@giganews.com...
: Look at his hard working result pre-cancer. That will give you an
: indication of what hard work and non-cutting edge doping can accomplish.
Dumbass -
As always, you're conclusions are completely tainted by your bias.
1) LANCE most likely doped pre-cancer
2) LANCE was a really good rider, pre-cancer, but he was an explosive
one-day anaerobic machine rather than a Grand Tour rider. He won Worlds. I
remember seeing him take on the entire ONCE team singlehandedly (of course
he lost). Even Miguel Indurain at his peak wasn't able to succeed at that
(stage 9, 1995 TdF).
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 9:58 am
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"
"Anton Berlin" <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ed4dafec-2ee7-446a-9a30-58887e13c197@q35g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> Gee Mike - did you read the part where he wasn't training and was out
> partying all of the time?
>
> Dekker wasn't like Lance in that he hadn't the discipline to do EPO in
> the evening, do a little coke with strippers, go home and give his
> wife the STD he just caught and then wake up in time to train.
Dumbass -
That is a failure of the man, not the drugs.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 10:57 am
From: "B. Lafferty"
On 7/30/2010 12:57 PM, Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> "B. Lafferty"<bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:u8ydnay1QtQTfczRnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> : Look at his hard working result pre-cancer. That will give you an
> : indication of what hard work and non-cutting edge doping can accomplish.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> As always, you're conclusions are completely tainted by your bias.
>
> 1) LANCE most likely doped pre-cancer
>
> 2) LANCE was a really good rider, pre-cancer, but he was an explosive
> one-day anaerobic machine rather than a Grand Tour rider. He won Worlds. I
> remember seeing him take on the entire ONCE team singlehandedly (of course
> he lost). Even Miguel Indurain at his peak wasn't able to succeed at that
> (stage 9, 1995 TdF).
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
What was it about "non-cutting edge doping" that you didn't understand,
Henry? Thanks though for your thoughts.
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 10:58 am
From: "B. Lafferty"
On 7/30/2010 12:58 PM, Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> "Anton Berlin"<truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ed4dafec-2ee7-446a-9a30-58887e13c197@q35g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Gee Mike - did you read the part where he wasn't training and was out
>> partying all of the time?
>>
>> Dekker wasn't like Lance in that he hadn't the discipline to do EPO in
>> the evening, do a little coke with strippers, go home and give his
>> wife the STD he just caught and then wake up in time to train.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> That is a failure of the man, not the drugs.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
Brilliant, Henry.
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 1:17 pm
From: Anton Berlin
On Jul 30, 11:57 am, "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>
> news:u8ydnay1QtQTfczRnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> : Look at his hard working result pre-cancer. That will give you an
> : indication of what hard work and non-cutting edge doping can accomplish.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> As always, you're conclusions are completely tainted by your bias.
>
> 1) LANCE most likely doped pre-cancer
>
> 2) LANCE was a really good rider, pre-cancer, but he was an explosive
> one-day anaerobic machine rather than a Grand Tour rider. He won Worlds. I
> remember seeing him take on the entire ONCE team singlehandedly (of course
> he lost). Even Miguel Indurain at his peak wasn't able to succeed at that
> (stage 9, 1995 TdF).
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Accurate assessment
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Greatest Dope Fueled Cycling Performances of all time ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/d5ef3fa719c07bcc?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 6:32 pm
From: S Perryman
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> "Anton Berlin" <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ceb66f89-5a0d-460d-9106-bb4b89edec84@d8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
> : As a wise man once said "Cycling has gotten cleaner than Kirstie
> : Aleey's dinner plate' and this year's tour - more than anything -
> : sealed the concept that cycling without drugs is just bike riding.
> :
> : With that in mind - what are the greatest dope fueled cycling
> : performances of all time.
> Rominger's hour record. It was just supposed to be a 'test'.
Going from 53.7 to 55.2km/h in under 2 weeks, is spectacular indeed.
And a Ferrari associate too.
If it ever comes out, it would be interesting to know what the
substance regime was in order to make that leap.
> He didn't even have the ultimate bike.
Rominger was one of those like Boardman, supreme body position for TT.
Bike not so important IMHO when tis so.
Indurain OTOH, looked like he was standing up by comparison.
His raw power in road TTs (on inclines, into the wind etc) counted for
nothing in the track env, super bike or not.
Regards,
Steven Perryman
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 11:48 am
From: S Perryman
Amit Ghosh wrote:
> On Jul 28, 10:45 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> -pantani's '99 giro
Ooh, bad one to choose for Armstrong fanboys.
Jalabert somehow had managed to stay within 5 mins of Pantani on
GC up to that last day in the mountains.
The Jalabert who (throughout his career in general, and 1999 in
particular) , was substance tested so often that Armstrongs
notion of "tested so often" by comparison would look like
having a birthday party.
Regards,
Steven Perryman
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The real cause of Andy's chain drop
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/d38fb6f0640ee1b8?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 1:10 pm
From: "Mark J."
Sabotage by a desperate maths teacher
http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/andy-schleck/from-school-renegade-to-tour-star
Mark J.
President, evil maths-teachers of the world
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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en
On Jul 29, 11:46 pm, phytochem <ujwa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> hello frnds plz help me with following one article and one book, very
> urgent for my project
> 1) International Journal of Pharmaceutics
> Volume 93, Issues 1-3, 31 May 1993, Pages 85-90
> Stabilization-oriented preformulation study of photolabile
> menatetrenone (vitamin K2)
> Reiko Teraoka and Yoshihisa Matsuda,
> Kobe Women's College of Pharmacy, Higashinada, Kobe 658 Japan
> Received 10 May 1992; revised 31 July 1992; accepted 27 August
> 1992. Available online 8 November 2002.
>
> 2)The Encyclopedia of Vitamin E
> Edited by V R Preedy, Kings College London, UK, R Watson, University
> of Arizona, USA
> April 2007 / Hardback / 960 Pages / 9781845930752
> ISBN-10: 1845930754
> ISBN-13: 978-1845930752
>
> thanking you
>
> ujwal47@
> gmail.com
--
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Today's topics:
* Contador and Riis - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c9a02bdf2a02b2f2?hl=en
* WSJ: Prosecutors Step Up Armstrong Probe - 6 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4daf5e927c629c39?hl=en
* Andy's chain incident- am I seeing it right? - 5 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/660885e81f8e9e12?hl=en
* NEWSFLASH: Local cyclist fascinated by Tour de France - 3 messages, 3
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/870762fabe3d2935?hl=en
* I thought I was invincible, that they wouldn't catch me. - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c394a4045e928746?hl=en
* Lance's future ? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c4282ab9d2798eeb?hl=en
* What Kind of Immunity to be Granted? - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c7036ee6034915ed?hl=en
* ITU To Use Biological Passports - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/04bc0d736cc77eb6?hl=en
* LeMond's vicious attack - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/93da6767e1c4f2f2?hl=en
* French Criminal Investigation of Astana 2009 Underway - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/739681399879690b?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Contador and Riis
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c9a02bdf2a02b2f2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 11:25 pm
From: Ronko
In article <229caeff-631f-41f4-99a9-
055957285a36@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
victor.kan@gmail.com says...
>
>
>On Jul 29, 7:47 pm, Ronko <ronkreu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...
>> Interesting possibility but what about the Schleck brothers? Who
>> rides numero uno?
>
>Do you mean between Andy and Frank on their new Luxembourg-
based
>team? Probably Andy.
>
>Riis and the Schlecks have all but confirmed that they are parting
>ways at the end of the year.
>
>> Of course a team with Contador, the Schleck's,
>> Jens, Cancellero, Stu O'Grady would be formidable.
>
>Seems unlikely that Contador and the Schlecks will ever be on the
same
>team, regardless of "chaingate".
Ah, I'm not down with the latest. So Andy and Frank to their own
team, more power to them.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 2:27 am
From: Betty
RicodJour wrote:
> When Frank Schleck started getting noticed in the pro peloton, he said
> that if he told people how strong his younger brother was, no one
> would believe him. He already knows who is the better candidate, and
> has known it for a while.
Perhaps, but he'll need a lower CdA if he wants to win the TDF.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: WSJ: Prosecutors Step Up Armstrong Probe
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4daf5e927c629c39?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 1:11 am
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd
On Jul 29, 5:05 pm, Dumbass <tadams...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 29, 1:58 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 29, 1:51 pm, Dumbass <tadams...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > I can you name anyone, a single athelete, convicted of doping based on
> > > mere accusations?
>
> > > The will need doctor's records, I think.
>
> > dumbass,
>
> > as the valpo prof in the article says: no one will get charged with or
> > convicted for doping.
>
> > someone might get charged with some associated activity, but as a
> > consequence the doping will be exposed.
>
> I see. Just like me, you don't think Armstrong can be convicted of
> anything because there
> is no good evidence.
>
> You are just hoping that prosecuters will charge him with something
> they
> don't have the evidence to prove (an illegal activity call
> prosecutorial harrasment)
> in order to expose doping.
Kloothommel,
Please stop using the moniker "Dumbass."
You haven't earned the right to the term and
you're dragging down the standards.
It has nothing to do with what Amit wants and he
didn't express a preference. It has to do with what
the prosecutor wants.
They can't "charge someone with doping" because
in the US, consuming PEDs to win a sporting event
is not a crime. Selling controlled PEDs without a
prescription is a crime, and buying them probably
is but buyers are hardly ever prosecuted. However,
actually ingesting the PEDs is not a crime, and there
is no law directly prohibiting using PEDs in sporting
events. The Italians have a law about "sporting fraud" which
is the closest major countries get to criminalizing doping
that I know of, and all the sporting-fraud trials for PEDs
have been fiascos, because criminal law isn't the right
place to adjudicate violations of the rules of sport.
This is what you are failing to understand. Armstrong et al
will not be charged with doping not because there is no
evidence, but because it is not a crime. It is possible
that the prosecutors will charge somebody with an
ancillary putative crime that is an actual criminal charge,
like fraud or perjury or conspiring to distribute a controlled
substance.
Prosecutors prosecute. It is what they do. Generally
prosecutorial success is measured by securing
convictions or plea deals, but with this particular gang,
forcing an embarrassing public disclosure of doping
activities would also be considered a "success." I put
success in quotation marks because although the
ostensible reason is that such revelations will help
clean up sport, it's my opinion that BALCO and related
investigations have not rendered track and field or
baseball free of doping - or even made doping less
common - I suspect that it is a little more discreet now
though, no bowls full of greenies in the locker room
or guys with forearms as big as my thigh.
So until you stop talking about "convicted of doping,"
you can lash out at dumbasses in rbr all you want,
but you'll be making less sense than a dumbass.
If you want to wear the colors, you have to obey the
club rules.
Fredmaster Ben
== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 5:53 am
From: Anton Berlin
On Jul 29, 8:36 pm, Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 27, 5:58 pm, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:55:22 -0400, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >>> Mr. Lawyer, they are looking to show a) a long standing pattern of fraud
> > >>> leading up to the Postal years and the SCA Promotions contract; b) that
> > >>> every time Armstrong has said he has never used PEDs, he's been lying,
> > >>> sometimes under oath; c) that the SCA Promotions contract was
> > >>> fraudulently induced and that the payout was fraudulently sought and
> > >>> obtained by perjured testimony.
>
> > >> Except that it was reported that there was no "anti-doping" clause in
> > >> the SCA contract, so it was a moot point whether he doped or not to
> > >> win. Bit odd that SCA would have refused to pay because of doping
> > >> allegations though...
>
> > >citation/link, please.
>
> > sure :http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4892/Lance-Armstrong-contradicts-te...
>
> > "The case was eventually settled out of court with SCA paying
> > Armstrong and Tailwind Sports $7.5 million, to cover the $5-million
> > bonus plus interest and lawyers' fees. It is understood that SCA lost
> > as they hadnÕt put a no-doping clause in the contract, thus making
> > their line of defense invalid."
>
> > Makes them look pretty stupid if it was indeed the case.
>
> SCA's role was as an insurance company, not
> a governing body or certifier of results. Tailwind
> had a contract clause that would pay LANCE the $5M
> bonus if he won the Tour six times, which was somewhat
> outlandish (although he had alrady won twice). Tailwind
> probably didn't have $5M so they took out an insurance
> policy, paying SCA $420K for it.
>
> Essentially, SCA and Tailwind made a bet at about 12:1
> on whether LANCE would win the Tour six times.
> This is fairly standard hedging. I kind of doubt whether
> anti-doping clauses are standard in such contracts,
> although there is probably a lot of boilerplate about
> no unfair-means and how the winner is certified.
> I wouldn't be surprised if many such contracts were
> written for bonuses for baseball players like Mark McGwire
> hitting 70 home runs and probably none of those contracts
> had an anti-doping clause.
>
> Even if there had been an anti-doping clause, it might
> have been written to be activated if Armstrong got actually
> busted for doping (just like winning has to be certified
> by the ASO, getting busted also has to be defined in some
> non-ambiguous way), and SCA could have lost anyway.
> Also, the more clauses you add to an insurance contract,
> the lower the premium you can charge.
>
> Basically, SCA sued not to uphold the moral integrity of
> the sport, but because they lost a bet and wanted to
> avoid paying out. This is standard operating procedure
> for insurance companies, so it is not some kind of
> black mark against SCA, but it also wasn't a very good
> bet since they lost fairly decisively and wound up having
> to pay $7.5M with the interest and fees.
>
> The lesson may just be that SCA followed moderately
> questionable judgment with the 12:1 bet (given the example
> of Indurain, maybe they should have taken more seriously the
> possibility that LANCE would win four more times), with
> aggressive poor judgment in pursuing the suit.
>
> Fredmaster Ben
SCA contacted me during this period and the inquiry was strongly
slanted towards finding people that could corroborate doping.
== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 6:36 am
From: Dumbass
On Jul 30, 4:11 am, Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 29, 5:05 pm, Dumbass <tadams...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 29, 1:58 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 29, 1:51 pm, Dumbass <tadams...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I can you name anyone, a single athelete, convicted of doping based on
> > > > mere accusations?
>
> > > > The will need doctor's records, I think.
>
> > > dumbass,
>
> > > as the valpo prof in the article says: no one will get charged with or
> > > convicted for doping.
>
> > > someone might get charged with some associated activity, but as a
> > > consequence the doping will be exposed.
>
> > I see. Just like me, you don't think Armstrong can be convicted of
> > anything because there
> > is no good evidence.
>
> > You are just hoping that prosecuters will charge him with something
> > they
> > don't have the evidence to prove (an illegal activity call
> > prosecutorial harrasment)
> > in order to expose doping.
>
> Kloothommel,
>
> Please stop using the moniker "Dumbass."
I was called Dumbass in the first response to my first post
here. I did not know it was a badge or honor.
> You haven't earned the right to the term and
> you're dragging down the standards.
>
> It has nothing to do with what Amit wants and he
> didn't express a preference. It has to do with what
> the prosecutor wants.
>
> They can't "charge someone with doping" because
> in the US, consuming PEDs to win a sporting event
> is not a crime. Selling controlled PEDs without a
> prescription is a crime, and buying them probably
> is but buyers are hardly ever prosecuted. However,
> actually ingesting the PEDs is not a crime, and there
> is no law directly prohibiting using PEDs in sporting
> events. The Italians have a law about "sporting fraud" which
> is the closest major countries get to criminalizing doping
> that I know of, and all the sporting-fraud trials for PEDs
> have been fiascos, because criminal law isn't the right
> place to adjudicate violations of the rules of sport.
>
> This is what you are failing to understand. Armstrong et al
> will not be charged with doping not because there is no
> evidence, but because it is not a crime. It is possible
> that the prosecutors will charge somebody with an
> ancillary putative crime that is an actual criminal charge,
> like fraud or perjury or conspiring to distribute a controlled
> substance.
>
> Prosecutors prosecute. It is what they do. Generally
> prosecutorial success is measured by securing
> convictions or plea deals, but with this particular gang,
> forcing an embarrassing public disclosure of doping
> activities would also be considered a "success."
> I put
> success in quotation marks because although the
> ostensible reason is that such revelations will help
> clean up sport, it's my opinion that BALCO and related
> investigations have not rendered track and field or
> baseball free of doping - or even made doping less
> common - I suspect that it is a little more discreet now
> though, no bowls full of greenies in the locker room
> or guys with forearms as big as my thigh.
>
> So until you stop talking about "convicted of doping,"
> you can lash out at dumbasses in rbr all you want,
> but you'll be making less sense than a dumbass.
> If you want to wear the colors, you have to obey the
> club rules.
I have already stopped talking about "convicted of doping".
To convict Armstrong with fraud or perjury, they will need physical
evidence. Just a bunch of allegations won't cut it.
Armstrong has already said under oath (in a civil case that he won)
that
he used performance-enhancing drugs prescribed as part of his cancer
recovery treatment.
Armstrong does not face a records trail like BALCO.
I don't know what exactly made Marion Jones confess. There were some
retest results with newer methods, or maybe the she plea bargained for
her husband who was caught up in BALCO. Or maybe she just did not
have the balls to lie under oath. So far, all the retest-related
claims against Armstrong have not held up because of test
irregularities or ID issues.
Even with BALCO and retests, I can't find any athelete that has been
convicted of fraud or perjury. A few have confessed to doping, but I
am not sure why the chose to confess.
>
> Fredmaster Ben- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 7:01 am
From: Dumbass
On Jul 29, 10:17 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 29, 4:36 pm, Dumbass <tadams...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Some is going to get charged with something? Not convicted?
>
> dumbass,
>
> yes, they might get charged but not even convicted. what were the real
> legal consequences of the balco scandal and mitchell report ?
>
> none, but those athletes were compelled to admit to doping.
I wonder what compelled them?
And, not all of them confessed.
>
> > They had physical evidence against Jones.
>
> not really worse than anything they have against armstrong. she never
> tested positive, but her other charges (perjury, cheque fraud) forced
> her to admit to doping.
They may have had more on her. The retest results used to accuse
Lance did not hold up to scrutiny. They had her husband in BALCO. I
am not sure why she confessed.
>
> > They have no more on Clemens currently already have on Armstrong, a
> > bunch of allegations. He's been convicted of nothing just like
> > Armstrong
>
> > I did not have time to research the other two. Unlike you, I try to
> > back up my claims.
>
> dumbass, read up on those cases, there were no (legitimate*) positive
> tests or anything that i would consider physical evidence of doping,
> it came about from the testimony of mcnamee the trainer. he was forced
> to testify because of the charges he faced.
There are boco positive retests in Marion Jones' case.
Like Armstrong, Clemens has never confessed and had not even been
charged with anything. Armstong is perhaps in a better position since
he actually won a civil case where he was charged with doping.
>
> how the law reads doesn't really matter - it's all about deals. the
> nly people that did time were the suppliers like conte and anderson
> and the lawyer that leaked the grand jury testimony - novitzky's
> legacy s that he was able to expose the doping by getting the athletes
> to admit it themselves. this has nothing to do with actually enforcing
> the law.
>
> * there were the supposedly anonymous trial doping tests, but there
> were no actual doping controls during the mcgwire "long ball" and
> "bash bros." years, yet they were able to pressure mcgwire to admit to
> doping - even though he initially resisted.
The Mcqwire case is interesting. He was accused of doping that
involved no fraud or illegal activity. Then he was put under oath by
Congress and ask about these legal activities. If he had denied this
legal non-fraudulent doping under oath then that would have been the
first time he broke the law! He refused to answer the questions under
oath and eventually confessed (while not under oath) to legal non-
fradulent doping.
I don't think this is what Armstrong faces.
== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 8:37 am
From: Amit Ghosh
On Jul 30, 10:01 am, Dumbass <tadams...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> They may have had more on her. The retest results used to accuse
> Lance did not hold up to scrutiny. They had her husband in BALCO. I
> am not sure why she confessed.
>
dumbass,
doping itself isn't a crime, but lying (perjury) is.
in all these cases all the doping evidence was circumstantial - so the
only way to prove someone was doping is to get them to confess.
== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 9:07 am
From: Amit Ghosh
On Jul 30, 9:36 am, Dumbass <tadams...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have already stopped talking about "convicted of doping".
>
> To convict Armstrong with fraud or perjury, they will need physical
> evidence. Just a bunch of allegations won't cut it.
>
> Armstrong has already said under oath (in a civil case that he won)
> that
> he used performance-enhancing drugs prescribed as part of his cancer
> recovery treatment.
>
> Armstrong does not face a records trail like BALCO.
>
dumbass,
most likely armstrong won't get convicted of anything (even fraud),
investigators will target associates like they did in BALCO and the
mitchell report and they will look for associated violations.
if the bikes were sold on ebay, is there evidence of tax evasion or
money laundering ? distributing or administering drugs or medical
treatment might be a crime.
the result they seem to be looking for is admission of doping, not
actual convictions.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Andy's chain incident- am I seeing it right?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/660885e81f8e9e12?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 3:32 am
From: Victor Kan
On Jul 29, 10:47 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> When Andy dumped his chain, why didn't he shift it back onto the chainring?
He did try that, but it didn't work. From the front motorcycle video
of the incident, after he lifts the rear wheel and jerks forward a
bit, he can be clearly seen looking down and making a long throw on
his left Double Tap lever. I've never used SRAM brifters so I don't
know how they feel, but maybe the nature of their single motion, two
distances method to distinguish up vs down shifts isn't as conducive
to fixing a thrown chain in the heat of the race as some other
methods.
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 4:07 am
From: "A. Dumas"
Victor Kan wrote:
> On Jul 29, 10:47 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:
>> When Andy dumped his chain, why didn't he shift it back onto the chainring?
>
> He did try that, but it didn't work.
Yes, that was what he said. Video:
http://web.me.com/edr/cycling/chaingate.html
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 5:28 am
From: --D-y
On Jul 30, 6:07 am, "A. Dumas" <alexan...@dumas.fr> wrote:
> Victor Kan wrote:
> > On Jul 29, 10:47 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:
> >> When Andy dumped his chain, why didn't he shift it back onto the chainring?
>
> > He did try that, but it didn't work.
>
> Yes, that was what he said. Video:http://web.me.com/edr/cycling/chaingate.html
Twice, if I saw things correctly, he got the chain back up on a
chainring, but then didn't execute that *second* rotation of the
crank. Like he was in a hurry or something.
One rev to start the chain on, another to make it stay on is what
works IME, at least if the on-the-fly shift doesn't work and you have
to get off and manual-ize.
Did we see the team car come up and give him a wet wipe for his greasy
fingers?
Wow, what a slam for SRAM. Have they mounted a damage control PR blitz
yet, or is it going to be another re-design?
--D-y
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 6:26 am
From: Fred Flintstein
On 7/30/2010 12:08 AM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> The only SRAM-equipped
> bike in my personal stable is a Bike Friday, which was the bike I used
> in France.
Dude,
Live dangerously!
Fred Flintstein
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 8:19 am
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"
"Fred Flintstein" <bob.schwartz@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote in message
news:haWdnZhunP5zT8_RnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> On 7/30/2010 12:08 AM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> The only SRAM-equipped
>> bike in my personal stable is a Bike Friday, which was the bike I
>> used
>> in France.
>
> Dude,
>
> Live dangerously!
>
> Fred Flintstein
It was fun passing people on "real" bikes on the climbs. And they
descend surprisingly well. Still, it was nice to come home and ride my
"real" bike on climbs again. But traveling with a "real" bike is just
not a whole lot of fun. Much easier when your bike fits into an
airline-legal suitcase.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
==============================================================================
TOPIC: NEWSFLASH: Local cyclist fascinated by Tour de France
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/870762fabe3d2935?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 5:04 am
From: bar
http://www.uticaod.com/sports/x390011523/Local-cyclist-fascinated-by-Tour-de-France
Alright, which one of you motherfuckers is Pat McCann ... fess up
now ...
-b-
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 5:12 am
From: RicodJour
On Jul 30, 8:04 am, bar <barbari...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.uticaod.com/sports/x390011523/Local-cyclist-fascinated-by-...
>
> Alright, which one of you motherfuckers is Pat McCann ... fess up
> now ...
I am Spartacus!
R
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 5:41 am
From: Anton Berlin
Slow news day in Utica.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: I thought I was invincible, that they wouldn't catch me.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c394a4045e928746?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 5:44 am
From: --D-y
On Jul 29, 3:11 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 7/29/2010 4:07 PM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Anton Berlin" <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:ed4dafec-2ee7-446a-9a30-58887e13c197@q35g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> > On Jul 29, 12:30 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> > wrote:
> >> "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:Sb-dnZGwv_vVGczRnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> >> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/thomas-dekker-a-dopers-desire-for...
>
> >> Interesting read. Especially this part-
> >> ======
> >> Yet despite the drugs 2008 was a poor year results-wise. Dekker went
> >> from race to race in search of form, unable to find the legs that had
> >> helped him in 2007. But it wasn't his legs that were the problem. He'd
> >> lost his head. The regimented life of rising early and training every
> >> day had disappeared as he became more reliant on drugs, ego, partying
> >> and being the centre of attention.
> >> "I wasn't living for my sport anymore and I was trying to make up for it
> >> by doping. Cycling was my life when I was winning races like Tirreno, I
> >> was waking up early, living like a professional should. I was never
> >> going out, just doing the same thing always living for my bike. In 2008
> >> that was all different. I lost my seriousness and my focus."
> >> ======
>
> >> Dekker & the author are making the claim that doping led to his downfall
> >> as a competitive cyclist. And does so in a very believable fashion. Or
> >> does it? We've always assumed that doping was a panacea, a way to cheat
> >> that had no real downfall aside from the prospect of getting caught.
> >> This is something new or at least an aspect of doping I haven't seen
> >> articulated quite this well before, not well enough for me to pay
> >> attention to it anyway.
>
> >> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
> > ========
> > Gee Mike - did you read the part where he wasn't training and was out
> > partying all of the time?
>
> > Dekker wasn't like Lance in that he hadn't the discipline to do EPO in
> > the evening, do a little coke with strippers, go home and give his
> > wife the STD he just caught and then wake up in time to train.
> > ========
>
> > Not much point in trying to argue with me when we agree. That was the
> > point of what I referenced- that Dekker felt that EPO was a substitute
> > for proper training. It made him mentally weak.
>
> > We can joke and not-joke about Lance all we want, but you've pointed to
> > a fundamental truth about the guy- he was amazingly disciplined, and
> > would likely be a winner in an era that was clean or dirty. It's hard to
> > make a case that, in a 100% clean environment, Lance would have been
> > less-likely to win. While the scenarios most assume might put 70-90% of
> > the peloton as "dirty", those 10-30% presumed "clean" weren't likely
> > going to change the GC that much. Hypothetically speaking, one could say
> > they weren't disciplined enough to get the job done (which might have
> > required doping, among other things).
>
> > --Mike Jacoubowsky
> > Chain Reaction Bicycles
> >www.ChainReaction.com
> > Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> Look at his hard working result pre-cancer. That will give you an
> indication of what hard work and non-cutting edge doping can accomplish.
Just a distant impression, but I believe "work" took on a whole new
meaning for Lance, post cancer.
"Cutting edge" was changing, too <g>.
Pre Cancer? Two TdF stage wins, a Worlds RR championship, a couple of
minor "classics" and a flubbed shot at the Ardennais Weekend (against,
ahem, Pascal Richard cough cough).
Not much compared to seven TdF's in a row but then, if not
concentrating on the TdF, he might have won a bunch of one-day races
during those seven seasons, no?
Trading shots at poor-paying, lottery-type one-day races for a
juggernaut run at the TdF included in "preparation". After, according
to legend, none other than Eddy Merckx put a big ol' bug in his ear
about winning the TdF.
I mean, maybe "dope" is good for the IQ, too. "Better living through
chemistry?"
--D-y
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lance's future ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c4282ab9d2798eeb?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 6:39 am
From: CowPunk
Interesting read.
Even more interesting is the irony of how one cycling icon destroyed
himself, while another is being destroyed by others who are bitter of
his success.
On Jul 29, 10:31 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2004/mar/07/cycling.features
>
> Pantani's body had grown so dependent on these injections that it
> could no longer produce red blood cells.
>
> On his arrival at Turin's Centro Traumatologico Ortopedico at 3.20pm,
> doctors were startled to discover blood values that were abnormal,
> almost bizarre: his haematocrit, or red cell count, was 60 per cent
> (50 per cent is high); his haemoglobin was 20.8g per 100ml (18g is
> noteworthy). These values then plummeted: on 25 October, with 15.9 per
> cent haematocrit and 5.8g haemoglobin, it took a transfusion to save
> his life.
>
> After which the anaemia miraculously cleared. Someone, it seemed, had
> injected Pantani with the genetically engineered blood-booster
> erythropoietin, known in sport as the doping agent EPO. At the age of
> just 25, Pantani's body had grown so dependent on these injections
> that it could no longer produce red blood cells.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 8:20 am
From: "B. Lafferty"
On 7/30/2010 2:19 AM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> "Anton Berlin"<truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:da944b0a-fca3-4791-95d1-85db7f7c2f8f@z10g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2004/mar/07/cycling.features
>>
>> Pantani's body had grown so dependent on these injections that it
>> could no longer produce red blood cells.
>>
>> On his arrival at Turin's Centro Traumatologico Ortopedico at 3.20pm,
>> doctors were startled to discover blood values that were abnormal,
>> almost bizarre: his haematocrit, or red cell count, was 60 per cent
>> (50 per cent is high); his haemoglobin was 20.8g per 100ml (18g is
>> noteworthy). These values then plummeted: on 25 October, with 15.9 per
>> cent haematocrit and 5.8g haemoglobin, it took a transfusion to save
>> his life.
>>
>> After which the anaemia miraculously cleared. Someone, it seemed, had
>> injected Pantani with the genetically engineered blood-booster
>> erythropoietin, known in sport as the doping agent EPO. At the age of
>> just 25, Pantani's body had grown so dependent on these injections
>> that it could no longer produce red blood cells.
>
> Not that I should be taking your post so seriously, but if I recall
> correctly, there's never been any evidence that Lance had an
> outrageously-high hematocrit level, only that it hasn't, at times,
> fluctuated in the normal manner one would expect during a three-week
> event. Pantani, like Ricco, apparently doped to the gills. If Lance
> doped, it was evidently far more carefully managed than Pantani, and I'd
> assume far less likely to have long-lasting health effects.
>
> Try as one might, Lance's phenomenal success cannot be attributed solely
> to (alleged) doping. He rode for one of the most well-organized&
> disciplined teams, with a clear focus (contrast that with Telekom!).
> While other teams stayed at hotels sponsored by the TdF organization, US
> Postal and Discovery usually had their own, considerably-upgraded digs.
>
> I suppose that all of that was just a cover, a way to make it appear
> that Postal& Discovery had all manner of reasons that made them better,
> in order to get people to overlook the idea that they were doping?
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>
OK. A hard working doper. And.............?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: What Kind of Immunity to be Granted?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c7036ee6034915ed?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 8:22 am
From: "B. Lafferty"
On 7/30/2010 12:00 AM, LawBoy01 wrote:
> On Jul 29, 11:38 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> My guesses:
>>
>> Tyler Hamilton transactional
>> Landis transactional
>> Kristin use
>> Anderson use
>> Hincapie transactional
>> Emma O'Reilly none
>> Dr. Lim use, but maybe transactional
>> Kevin Livingston transactional
>> Besty Andreau none
>> Frankie Andreau transactional
>> Chris Charmichael use
>> Dr. Strock use
>> Johan B. Transactional (Maybe use or none)
>> Lemond none
>>
>> Thom Weisel none
>> Armstrong none
>> Och none
>
> They'll all get use immunity just so you can masterbate while posting
> on RBR. Wait....you already do that.
Now, here I thought you were turning over a kinder, gentler way of life
here on rbr. Carry on.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 8:24 am
From: "B. Lafferty"
On 7/30/2010 12:26 AM, CowPunk wrote:
> I guess this also depends on who signed non-disclosure agreements as
> part of their pro contracts with the teams?
>
>
> On Jul 29, 10:38 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> My guesses:
>>
>> Tyler Hamilton transactional
>> Landis transactional
>> Kristin use
>> Anderson use
>> Hincapie transactional
>> Emma O'Reilly none
>> Dr. Lim use, but maybe transactional
>> Kevin Livingston transactional
>> Besty Andreau none
>> Frankie Andreau transactional
>> Chris Charmichael use
>> Dr. Strock use
>> Johan B. Transactional (Maybe use or none)
>> Lemond none
>>
>> Thom Weisel none
>> Armstrong none
>> Och none
>
That really will not bve an issue in the face of a criminal subpoena.
You can clam up in front of a grand jury by asserting a 5th amendment
privilege unless and until granted immunity, but there is no privilege
to not answer due to a confidentiality agreement.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: ITU To Use Biological Passports
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/04bc0d736cc77eb6?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 8:25 am
From: "B. Lafferty"
On 7/29/2010 10:25 PM, derFahrer@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 29, 10:46 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On 7/29/2010 10:38 AM, Anton Berlin wrote:> On Jul 29, 8:49 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> http://www.zimbio.com/Lance+Armstrong/articles/reOzd3vF3Sc/Biological...
>>
>>> And in a related headline.... "LANCE ARMSTRONG DECIDES NOT TO PURSUE
>>> TRIATHLON CAREER AFTER CYCLING"
>>
>> There's always Curling. He can drink all the Ultra he wants.
>
> Alcohol is amazingly on the WADA banned list for ninepin and tenpin
> bowling. That is just wrong.
It's also banned for chess. Russian players are quite upset about that.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: LeMond's vicious attack
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/93da6767e1c4f2f2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 8:45 am
From: Dumbass
On Jul 27, 10:24 pm, Cicero Venatio <jazzyb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Now we've seen LeMond's multiple attacks, and you see no response from
> Lance. Lance can't answer, it's sad, and I really doubt that he can
> hold on to some of those tdf wins. I think he'll lose at least two of
> them, bringing him down to five, the number people think should be the
> limit. But I think LeMond wants to get him down to at least 3 tdf wins.
> Lance must realize his riding days are over, so he must now use his
> mind to fend off LeMond, answer his challenge just like when he rode his
> bike. It's not about the bike now, and Lance will have to meet his
> rival head on if he wants to preserve his legacy.
LeMond seems to have nothing on Armstrong. He's just running his
mouth. Armstrong should ignore him.
LeMond says that Landis is good, smart, and has is act together. Who
the heck believes that Landis is telling the whole truth about himself?
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 8:58 am
From: Dumbass
On Jul 27, 10:24 pm, Cicero Venatio <jazzyb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Now we've seen LeMond's multiple attacks, and you see no response from
> Lance. Lance can't answer, it's sad, and I really doubt that he can
> hold on to some of those tdf wins. I think he'll lose at least two of
> them, bringing him down to five, the number people think should be the
> limit. But I think LeMond wants to get him down to at least 3 tdf wins.
> Lance must realize his riding days are over, so he must now use his
> mind to fend off LeMond, answer his challenge just like when he rode his
> bike. It's not about the bike now, and Lance will have to meet his
> rival head on if he wants to preserve his legacy.
Lemond's a genius. He has immunized himself against claims that he
was doping by claiming that Armstrong is paying people to say he was
doping!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: French Criminal Investigation of Astana 2009 Underway
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/739681399879690b?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 8:47 am
From: "B. Lafferty"
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/a/lance_armstrong/index.html
==============================================================================
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