rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=enrec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* "Fresno Bee"? What's next, Lodi Weekly? Lompoc Shopper? - 2 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5df4c780b5a21e1c?hl=en
* Doping in Elite Sport - how drug testing fails - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7bc3dac757aac39b?hl=en
* See Hot Sexy Star Aishwarya Bathing Videos In All Angles.... - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0584b3f1dc983454?hl=en
* I thought I was invincible, that they wouldn't catch me. - 7 messages, 4
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c394a4045e928746?hl=en
* Clasica San Sebastian - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/72ba34407e563741?hl=en
* Not even the sibling he consumed in the womb can help him now - 2 messages,
2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/72f6195cd4869840?hl=en
* Liz Hatch Needs Your Help!!! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/9f08004800222d08?hl=en
* Just sayin' - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/42d8542c905c8d3d?hl=en
* Henry, Betty, RetardJour, H. Fred, and Fredmaster Closed World Rantings - 5
messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a687653b1d2c01b9?hl=en
* Les filles des podiums - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/94c7a76ab6de60a4?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Fresno Bee"? What's next, Lodi Weekly? Lompoc Shopper?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5df4c780b5a21e1c?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 1 2010 10:56 pm
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd
On Aug 1, 2:44 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 8/1/2010 5:35 PM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
> >>> "how Lance could have beaten all those dopers riding
> >>> clean"...........not proof of doping to an unbiased juror.
>
> >> It is, in all probability, something that a prosecutor may try to use
> >> in an opening statement or summation to the jury. Whether it would
> >> get by the judge is a question that may or may not be answered.
>
> > As an opening statement, it would be a big mistake in my humble opinion,
> > because it's so easy to refute. Unless physical evidence turns up to
> > corroborate the stories, the "Lance won because he doped" line goes for
> > him, not against him, when you can show evidence of how many others
> > doped and were caught.... likely doping to a much greater degree than
> > Lance is alleged to have doped. And they didn't win. Unless you buy into
> > the idea that Lance had a monopoly on effective& safe (won't show up in
> > a test) doping, and what would make Lance so special that way?
>
> > As a summation, if that could be snuck in without being countered, it
> > would be a good play for the prosecution. But not knowing how these
> > things work, I don't know if that's possible. And I would think a good
> > defense attorney would try to pre-empt such a play.
>
> > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> >www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> I think it will play best in the summation. You'd be amazed what both
> sides can get away with summing up. I recall that there was once a
> prosecutor in NY State who told the jury the only reason the defendant
> was in the court to be judged by them was because the police couldn't
> shoot straight. That conviction was reversed on appeal.
Dumbasses,
This is idiotic because as you both know, doping
to win the Tour de France is not a crime and neither
Armstrong nor anyone else will be charged with
it in a US court, so proving that he doped to win the
Tour is secondary to any possible judicial proceeding.
If anyone gets charged it is going
to be on some derivative charge, like distributing
controlled substances, fraud in team accounting
(laundering bikes to buy dope, etc) or this theory
of defrauding the sponsor by turning in doped
performances (which I am skeptical is actually
going to lead to a charge without some kind of hard
evidence like bookkeeping irregularities).
On such charges, raising hypotheticals like whether
LANCE had to dope to beat a bunch of dirty-dog
Euro dopers is secondary and is likely to confuse
the jury (if anything, spending time detailing how
accepted doping is in pro cycling might arouse
sympathy for the defendant, and defang the
defrauding-the-sponsor charge). So I don't think a
smart prosecutor is going to ramble off on that
tangent during opening or summation.
Fredmaster Ben
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 6:54 am
From: "B. Lafferty"
On 8/1/2010 8:37 PM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> "B. Lafferty"<bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:JN6dnS1v_rgld8jRnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> On 8/1/2010 5:35 PM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:-O2dnWd2TuwrxcnRnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/31/2010 12:03 PM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:n6adndcE0NopvsnRnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/31/2010 1:59 AM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:pLSdnWK0PsNY6c7RnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/07/30/2024459/landis-rides-in-catskills...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So I'm thinking, who would read the Fresno Bee except
>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> living in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fresno? Of course, the answer is nobody. So why would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> use a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wire
>>>>>>>>>>>>> story from the Fresno Bee as a "news" source? The only
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> come
>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with is that that somebody has a wire service "scraper"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> programmed to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> look for certain keywords in articles and collect those
>>>>>>>>>>>>> articles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically you program a robot to do your work for you. And
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting thing about this is, instead of research, you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> carefully
>>>>>>>>>>>>> choose your keywords so that you get results that support
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> already believe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The real beauty to this is that you avoid being exposed to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> things you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't want to see or disagree with. You can construct your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> own safe
>>>>>>>>>>>>> world where everything supports what you already believe,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell the world look, I'm right, here's proof I found on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'net!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38495011/ns/sports/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> How is this a response to my post? What is your intent in
>>>>>>>>>>> posting a link
>>>>>>>>>>> to the identical story in a different website? How does that
>>>>>>>>>>> respond to
>>>>>>>>>>> my point about scraping for news one agrees with? Proof that
>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>> scraper works?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>>>>>>>>>>> Chain Reaction Bicycles
>>>>>>>>>>> www.ChainReaction.com
>>>>>>>>>>> Redwood City& Los Altos, CA USA
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I took your comment to mean that the story wasn't worth being
>>>>>>>>>> covered
>>>>>>>>>> by larger news outlets. But of course, it is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The worst thing about some of your "answers" is that I can see
>>>>>>>>> myself in
>>>>>>>>> them, back in high school and college. If I didn't know the
>>>>>>>>> answer to
>>>>>>>>> the question on a test, I'd substitute an answer for a question
>>>>>>>>> that I
>>>>>>>>> did know, hoping that somebody would think, oh, perhaps the
>>>>>>>>> question
>>>>>>>>> wasn't clear enough, I'll let that one slide.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>>>>>>>>> Chain Reaction Bicycles
>>>>>>>>> www.ChainReaction.com
>>>>>>>>> Redwood City& Los Altos, CA USA
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nice straw man, Mike. The bottom line is that it appears public
>>>>>>>> perception of Landis changing for the good. People are asking
>>>>>>>> more and
>>>>>>>> more questions about how Lance could have beaten all those
>>>>>>>> dopers
>>>>>>>> riding
>>>>>>>> clean. It's Lance and his mouthpieces, Herman and Daly, who are
>>>>>>>> looking
>>>>>>>> unbelievable.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The same way some previous champions have beaten the rest. Did
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> ever hear of normal distribution and outliers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes. That's been discussed here over the years. Believe in the
>>>>>> tooth
>>>>>> fairy if you choose to.
>>>>>
>>>>> It isn't about what I believe in. Its about having or not having
>>>>> irrefutable proof.
>>>>
>>>> It's about having proof by a preponderance of the evidence(civil) or
>>>> beyond a reasonable doubt (criminal). Here at rbr, preponderance is
>>>> the standard as far as I'm concerned and for me that threshold has
>>>> been more than met. If Armstong is ever charged with a crime and
>>>> goes
>>>> to trial, the standard of proof will be higher and it will be for a
>>>> jury to decide, unless he waives his right to a jury trial in favor
>>>> ofa bench trial.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While a doper may achieve exceptional performance, it is in no
>>>>>>> shape
>>>>>>> or form one iota of proof of doping. From what we know so far
>>>>>>> publicly, if it came to a jury trial, all Lance needs is one
>>>>>>> unbiased
>>>>>>> juror with an IQ> 100.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All it will ever come to in a criminal trial is how the jury
>>>>>> votes.
>>>>>> It
>>>>>> could be not guilty, guilty or hung jury/mis-trial. And your
>>>>>> point
>>>>>> was?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "how Lance could have beaten all those dopers riding
>>>>> clean"...........not proof of doping to an unbiased juror.
>>>>
>>>> It is, in all probability, something that a prosecutor may try to
>>>> use
>>>> in an opening statement or summation to the jury. Whether it would
>>>> get by the judge is a question that may or may not be answered.
>>>
>>> As an opening statement, it would be a big mistake in my humble
>>> opinion,
>>> because it's so easy to refute. Unless physical evidence turns up to
>>> corroborate the stories, the "Lance won because he doped" line goes
>>> for
>>> him, not against him, when you can show evidence of how many others
>>> doped and were caught.... likely doping to a much greater degree than
>>> Lance is alleged to have doped. And they didn't win. Unless you buy
>>> into
>>> the idea that Lance had a monopoly on effective& safe (won't show up
>>> in
>>> a test) doping, and what would make Lance so special that way?
>>>
>>> As a summation, if that could be snuck in without being countered, it
>>> would be a good play for the prosecution. But not knowing how these
>>> things work, I don't know if that's possible. And I would think a
>>> good
>>> defense attorney would try to pre-empt such a play.
>>>
>>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>>> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>>>
>>>
>> I think it will play best in the summation. You'd be amazed what both
>> sides can get away with summing up. I recall that there was once a
>> prosecutor in NY State who told the jury the only reason the defendant
>> was in the court to be judged by them was because the police couldn't
>> shoot straight. That conviction was reversed on appeal.
>
> It's not the judge's job to set the jury straight on that sort of thing?
> You don't see that on TV or the movies, so I don't know, but can you
> really get away with murder (perhaps literally in some cases) during the
> summation and the only remedy is on appeal? The prosecutor or defense
> attorney can't object? The judge has to stay silent?
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>
Judges aren't perfect. About 20 years ago the Division of Criminal
Justice Services in NY State put out a list of more absurd statements by
prosecutors during summation that led to reversal on appear. Two more
that come to mind are:
"The presumption of innocence is only for the innocent."
"We don't indict innocent people"
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Doping in Elite Sport - how drug testing fails
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7bc3dac757aac39b?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 12:06 am
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"
"Anton Berlin" <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2a6ae446-dacf-45d8-93c2-bb0ea49e1ac9@p22g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
: Same with the UCI really. They get a cut of the sponsorship money
: coming into the sport so a short cited policy (like let Lance's
: cortisone positve (and later EPO) slide) was probably some deal cooked
: up in the corridors of the UCI.
Dumbass -
What do you expect?
It's not a monastary, it's a business.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: See Hot Sexy Star Aishwarya Bathing Videos In All Angles....
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0584b3f1dc983454?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 12:11 am
From: sukanya
See Hot Sexy Star Aishwarya Bathing Videos In All Angles At
http://veryhotguru.co.cc
Due to high sex content, i have hidden the videos in an image. in
that
website on Top Side search box Above click on image and watch
videos in all angles.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: I thought I was invincible, that they wouldn't catch me.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c394a4045e928746?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 12:17 am
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"
"Fredmaster of Brainerd" <bjweiner@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:af06d698-219f-46ce-a3b8-b0f019441e9e@v32g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
: Actually, you don't know that. You don't have the
: numbers to show it.
:
: My guess is that doping at less than say the 60% HCT
: level makes no more than a 10% improvement in power,
: and probably less.
Dumbass -
Agreed.
Laff's talking out his ass again, which is typical when it comes to
discussing actual bike racing.
Besides your Alpe'd'Huez analysis, there's the example of lifetime Cat 5 Tom
Kunich with his 49% hematocrit. I had a collegiate rider who was a lifetime
Cat 4 who had a 49% hematocrit. That was a stark contrast to my Cat 1
teamate who only had a 36% Hct. He was pissed when the doctor wouldn't
prescribe him EPO. They don't consider it anemia unless the patient's Hct
goes under 30%. If my Cat 1 teamate had doped up to 54%, that would've been
a 50% increase in red blood cells. I'm quite certain he wouldn't have led to
a linear
50% increase in wattage - dude might've been able to ride Indurain off his
wheel. The Cat 1 teamate agrees with this: he was fond of a Belgian saying
he learned when he raced over there: "you can't polish a turd".
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
(42% Hct.)
== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 12:22 am
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"
"B. Lafferty" <bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:JN6dnSxv_rizdsjRnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@giganews.com...
:
: And doping is of the paramount importance.
Dumbass -
Total bullshit.
The 2 most important considerations are:
1) genetics
2) desire
If a rider is lacking in either of those, doping will, of course, help them
improve, but it won't get them into the top level. Does doping matter at the
top level? Absolutely. It is a separator when their abilities are so evenly
matched. But still, it's not of paramount importance. We could pump you and
I full of EPO all day long and we'd be better, but we'd still suck.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 2:18 am
From: Betty
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> The Cat 1 teamate agrees with this: he was fond of a Belgian saying
> he learned when he raced over there: "you can't polish a turd".
That's better than the racehorses and donkeys one.
== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 4:47 am
From: RicodJour
On Aug 2, 1:31 am, Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> There's really no way to know how much of LANCE's
> success was due to the changes in his body and
> how much to changes in his doctors, but using
> his 80th place at the age of 23 proves nothing.
> Many future GC riders were nowhere in their
> first couple of Tours. Further, if a rider is not
> riding for a top 20 GC place, he has no reason to
> expend extra effort and may lose significant time
> just by conserving energy and riding in the gruppetto.
> In other words, a rider who spent energy to place
> 30th rather than 80th is not a smart rider (unless he
> has to do it to help in the team GC competition).
36th place, not 80th - that was Barry projecting.
http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/eta_tdf_1978_2005/tdf1995.php
R
== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 4:51 am
From: RicodJour
On Aug 2, 1:48 am, "H. Fred Kveck" <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> Additionally, one needs to remember that LANCE wasn't riding the season the same
> way he did later - with the singular focus on the TdF. Taking that into account in
> addition to what you say about not bothering to waste energy trying to move up to a
> higher unimportant finishing position, there's ample reason to not take that 80th
> place as a particularly good indicator of LA's actual strength. But I doubt any of
> that will matter much to Brian. I suspect he, like Keith, will still think that LA
> "stole" multiple Tours from that nice clean Mr. Ullrich.
There's an even better reason not to take that 80th placing as a
particularly good indicator of LA's actual strength - he finished in
36th place. Barry was just projecting and pulled a number out of his
fundamental orifice.
R
== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 7:36 am
From: Anton Berlin
On Aug 2, 2:17 am, "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> "Fredmaster of Brainerd" <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:af06d698-219f-46ce-a3b8-b0f019441e9e@v32g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> : Actually, you don't know that. You don't have the
> : numbers to show it.
> :
> : My guess is that doping at less than say the 60% HCT
> : level makes no more than a 10% improvement in power,
> : and probably less.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Agreed.
>
> Laff's talking out his ass again, which is typical when it comes to
> discussing actual bike racing.
>
> Besides your Alpe'd'Huez analysis, there's the example of lifetime Cat 5 Tom
> Kunich with his 49% hematocrit. I had a collegiate rider who was a lifetime
> Cat 4 who had a 49% hematocrit. That was a stark contrast to my Cat 1
> teamate who only had a 36% Hct. He was pissed when the doctor wouldn't
> prescribe him EPO. They don't consider it anemia unless the patient's Hct
> goes under 30%. If my Cat 1 teamate had doped up to 54%, that would've been
> a 50% increase in red blood cells. I'm quite certain he wouldn't have led to
> a linear
> 50% increase in wattage - dude might've been able to ride Indurain off his
> wheel. The Cat 1 teamate agrees with this: he was fond of a Belgian saying
> he learned when he raced over there: "you can't polish a turd".
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> (42% Hct.)
When someone has a high hct not from training or altitude adaptation
(Kunich) it could be an indication they are having sleep apnea.
Kunich should see a dr on this
== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 7:51 am
From: RicodJour
On Aug 2, 10:36 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> When someone has a high hct not from training or altitude adaptation
> (Kunich) it could be an indication they are having sleep apnea.
>
> Kunich should see a dr on this
He may be. He's stopped posting here, so he's found something else to
occupy his time.
R
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Clasica San Sebastian
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/72ba34407e563741?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 12:23 am
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"
"Stephen" <hdm334@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2010080122310311034-hdm334@gmailcom...
: Haven't seen any discussion of the Clasica San Sebastian that was held
: this weekend. For those that haven't seen it or missed it, you might
: want to try to find a replay of it. Beautiful scenery, the teams
: brought many of the big name cyclists whom they brought to the Tour de
: France, and it was an exciting race.
:
: Anyone get a chance to watch it?
Dumbass -
Naw.
It's not really a Classic, they just call it that.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Not even the sibling he consumed in the womb can help him now
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/72f6195cd4869840?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 12:26 am
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote in message
news:GoKdnQSglerxj8vRnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@earthlink.com...
:
: But I seriously doubt Tyler has anything to lose by not recollecting.
: Seriously, he's likely only to perjure himself in some way that could
: come back to him, even with immunity. What does he have to gain from
: testifying (remembering)?
Dumbass -
Not much.
He does, however, have something to gain by not saying much (pssssst, LANCE,
pass me some boxes of cash).
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 6:49 am
From: "B. Lafferty"
On 8/1/2010 8:33 PM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> "B. Lafferty"<bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:95ednYzRzK3yY8jRnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> On 8/1/2010 6:08 PM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>> "Anton Berlin"<truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:cc0a798d-7a95-4264-ac62-0d6eb0e8070e@x18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>>>> During his grand jury testimony, Hamilton will be alone in a room
>>>> with
>>>> at least one prosecutor, up to 23 grand jurors, and a court
>>>> reporter.
>>>> His attorney will have to wait outside, and no judge will be
>>>> present.
>>>> By law, neither the prosecutors nor the jurors may even acknowledge
>>>> publicly that the investigation is taking place before issuing an
>>>> indictment.
>>>>
>>>> Read more:
>>>> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/08/01/2010-08-01_probe_looks_under_rock.html?page=1#ixzz0vNVIaqex
>>>
>>> Tyler may be alone in the room, but he's allowed to have an attorney
>>> present outside the courtroom and may interrupt the proceedings and
>>> consult with that attorney, if I understand things correctly.
>>
>> True. as many times as you need to consult, you can.
>>
>>
>>> The idea
>>> that someone can be separated from all elements of comfort and made
>>> to
>>> sweat it out in hopes of getting them to crack is generally a bit of
>>> a
>>> stretch. You can be made to look guilty by choosing not to
>>> incriminate
>>> yourself, but you (or Tyler in this case) are not the subject of the
>>> grand jury.
>>
>> Tyler may be the subject or target of the grand jury. We don't know
>> that. I suspect his attorney has worked out favorable terms for his
>> truthful testimony.
>
> So how many different subjects or targets do you think there are? How
> many were there in BALCO?
I have no idea. That is known by the US Attorney.
>I can't see a Grand Jury having a whole lot of
> interest in somebody they perceive as a nobody.
Grand Juries indict nobodies all the time.
> This case reaches back
> quite some ways, and without star power (Lance) I don't see how they're
> going to get much interest out of it from a Grand Jury. They're just
> people, y'know?
Recall please that this inquiry was well under way and involved many of
the riders now being interviewed before Landis made his allegations.
>
>>> The degree to which immunity is relevant depends upon what
>>> the person testifying might have as a liability (what they can go
>>> after
>>> criminally) and I doubt there's all that much there for Tyler.
>>
>> That immunity is only for his own statements that might incriminate
>> him. Once granted use or transactional immunity, he has to answer. His
>> biggest problem, unless there is more that we don't know, will be
>> liability for perjury during his sworn testimony in the CAS hearing.
>
> But I seriously doubt Tyler has anything to lose by not recollecting.
Tyler has a problem not remembering when he clearly remembered enough to
testify under oath that he remembered not using any PED or methods. He
also will be testifying before the grand jury without ( probably)
knowing what others have told the Feds and/or testified to in front of
the same grand jury he will be testifying in front of.
> Seriously, he's likely only to perjure himself in some way that could
> come back to him, even with immunity. What does he have to gain from
> testifying (remembering)?
He won't be perjuring himself by telling the truth with a grant of
immunity. Once he has the immunity he wants, it makes sense for him to
"remember" and tell the truth.
>
>>> But it's good drama& fun concocting all these scary but
>>> probably-not-relevant scenarios!
>>
>> No drama at all. The proceeding is secret and Tyler can't say anything
>> about what was asked and how he answered, except to his attorney.
>
> I meant drama on RBR. Was I really that obtuse?
Yes. :-)
>
>>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>>> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>
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TOPIC: Liz Hatch Needs Your Help!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/9f08004800222d08?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 2:22 am
From: Betty
TheCoz wrote:
> Pro Female Mud Wrestler
Do they dope ?
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TOPIC: Just sayin'
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/42d8542c905c8d3d?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 6:25 am
From: Fred
I think I understand why 'Anton Berlin', et al..., get so worked up
over the whole doping thing.
At some point in their early development as a cyclist, they thought
they had the talent to make it to the top, and they had the naivete to
believe that 'sport' is all about hard work and fair play. They
toiled and toiled at the sport, getting as high as they could, but
never quite making it as high as their mommas/fans told 'em they
would. I blame the 'nothing is more important than self-esteem'
approach to child rearing, but that's another issue.
Anyway, they try and try, but don't make it. They were never destined
to make it, they weren't quite talented enough, or didn't have the
mental strength to do it, or whatever. Bottom line: they didn't have
it.
BUT, to just accept that would be too hard. They can't admit they
weren't good enough. So, for the rest of their pathetic lives they'll
rest everything on the excuse that the other guys cheated. The funny
thing, deep down inside they knew that drugs were involved, and for
most of them I believe if they really had what it took and all they
needed was that extra 5%, they probably would've doped, too. But,
they learned quickly they didn't have it, so they quit racing and
started bitching. And bitching. And bitching.
Of course, none of this explains Lafferty.
Fred
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 6:37 am
From: Anton Berlin
On Aug 2, 8:25 am, Fred <fred.gar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I think I understand why 'Anton Berlin', et al..., get so worked up
> over the whole doping thing.
>
> At some point in their early development as a cyclist, they thought
> they had the talent to make it to the top, and they had the naivete to
> believe that 'sport' is all about hard work and fair play. They
> toiled and toiled at the sport, getting as high as they could, but
> never quite making it as high as their mommas/fans told 'em they
> would. I blame the 'nothing is more important than self-esteem'
> approach to child rearing, but that's another issue.
>
> Anyway, they try and try, but don't make it. They were never destined
> to make it, they weren't quite talented enough, or didn't have the
> mental strength to do it, or whatever. Bottom line: they didn't have
> it.
>
> BUT, to just accept that would be too hard. They can't admit they
> weren't good enough. So, for the rest of their pathetic lives they'll
> rest everything on the excuse that the other guys cheated. The funny
> thing, deep down inside they knew that drugs were involved, and for
> most of them I believe if they really had what it took and all they
> needed was that extra 5%, they probably would've doped, too. But,
> they learned quickly they didn't have it, so they quit racing and
> started bitching. And bitching. And bitching.
>
> Of course, none of this explains Lafferty.
>
> Fred
There are bike races?
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 6:45 am
From: RicodJour
On Aug 2, 9:37 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 2, 8:25 am, Fred <fred.gar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I think I understand why 'Anton Berlin', et al..., get so worked up
> > over the whole doping thing.
>
> > At some point in their early development as a cyclist, they thought
> > they had the talent to make it to the top, and they had the naivete to
> > believe that 'sport' is all about hard work and fair play. They
> > toiled and toiled at the sport, getting as high as they could, but
> > never quite making it as high as their mommas/fans told 'em they
> > would. I blame the 'nothing is more important than self-esteem'
> > approach to child rearing, but that's another issue.
>
> > Anyway, they try and try, but don't make it. They were never destined
> > to make it, they weren't quite talented enough, or didn't have the
> > mental strength to do it, or whatever. Bottom line: they didn't have
> > it.
>
> > BUT, to just accept that would be too hard. They can't admit they
> > weren't good enough. So, for the rest of their pathetic lives they'll
> > rest everything on the excuse that the other guys cheated. The funny
> > thing, deep down inside they knew that drugs were involved, and for
> > most of them I believe if they really had what it took and all they
> > needed was that extra 5%, they probably would've doped, too. But,
> > they learned quickly they didn't have it, so they quit racing and
> > started bitching. And bitching. And bitching.
>
> > Of course, none of this explains Lafferty.
>
> > Fred
>
> There are bike races?
Not in real life, just on the tube. I think they're all CGI.
R
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TOPIC: Henry, Betty, RetardJour, H. Fred, and Fredmaster Closed World Rantings
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a687653b1d2c01b9?hl=en
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== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 6:40 am
From: "B. Lafferty"
To make it easier for others here at rbr to separate out your constant
internal dialogues attacking Anton and me, please post those dialogues
here in this thread. That way we can have fact based discussions about
events and issues elsewhere in rbr.
Thanks! :-)
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 6:43 am
From: RicodJour
On Aug 2, 9:40 am, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> To make it easier for others here at rbr to separate out your constant
> internal dialogues attacking Anton and me, please post those dialogues
> here in this thread. That way we can have fact based discussions about
> events and issues elsewhere in rbr.
>
> Thanks! :-)
Sure, Blinky, no problem.
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/profile-ak-snc1/v227/1264/50/n1361330056_1813.jpg
R
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 6:44 am
From: Anton Berlin
On Aug 2, 8:40 am, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> To make it easier for others here at rbr to separate out your constant
> internal dialogues attacking Anton and me, please post those dialogues
> here in this thread. That way we can have fact based discussions about
> events and issues elsewhere in rbr.
>
> Thanks! :-)
It's actually just one guy without any friends in the real world and
many aliases on the internets arguing and agreeing with himself.
As long as they do it from the privacy of their basement apartments
and don't go out in the real world to harm children or squirrels, I'm
OK with it.
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 6:58 am
From: "B. Lafferty"
On 8/2/2010 9:43 AM, RicodJour wrote:
> On Aug 2, 9:40 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> To make it easier for others here at rbr to separate out your constant
>> internal dialogues attacking Anton and me, please post those dialogues
>> here in this thread. That way we can have fact based discussions about
>> events and issues elsewhere in rbr.
>>
>> Thanks! :-)
>
> Sure, Blinky, no problem.
> http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/profile-ak-snc1/v227/1264/50/n1361330056_1813.jpg
>
> R
Thanks for your understanding and consideration.
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 7:25 am
From: "B. Lafferty"
On 8/2/2010 9:44 AM, Anton Berlin wrote:
> On Aug 2, 8:40 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> To make it easier for others here at rbr to separate out your constant
>> internal dialogues attacking Anton and me, please post those dialogues
>> here in this thread. That way we can have fact based discussions about
>> events and issues elsewhere in rbr.
>>
>> Thanks! :-)
>
> It's actually just one guy without any friends in the real world and
> many aliases on the internets arguing and agreeing with himself.
>
> As long as they do it from the privacy of their basement apartments
> and don't go out in the real world to harm children or squirrels, I'm
> OK with it.
OK then. :-)
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TOPIC: Les filles des podiums
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/94c7a76ab6de60a4?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 6:41 am
From: Anton Berlin
On Aug 1, 6:48 pm, Frederick the Great <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <71ce973f-b8dd-4298-93fc-2eb58425d...@f20g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
> Superfly TNT <superfly-...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 1, 7:11 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Check out # 6 - nothing says "My rich daddy is in tour management"
> > > more
>
> > >http://www.lequipemag.fr/EquipeMag/En_Images/PORTFOLIO_les-reines-des...
>
> > > I suppose this also explains why french birth rates are so low.
>
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
>
> > Julie Blanc from last year's Tour was the best...
>
> >http://21virages.free.fr/blog/public/Hotesses/2009/2009_grimpeur_juli...
>
> I wonder what happens with the dresses.
>
> --
> Old Fritz
They sell them to the russian mafia to outfit the whores in
Bratislava.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 2 2010 6:48 am
From: RicodJour
On Aug 1, 7:48 pm, Frederick the Great <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > On Aug 1, 7:11 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Check out # 6 - nothing says "My rich daddy is in tour management"
> > > more
>
> > >http://www.lequipemag.fr/EquipeMag/En_Images/PORTFOLIO_les-reines-des...
{snip}
>
> I wonder what happens with the dresses.
Well, at least for that first picture, they sew arms on them and
French ski jumpers wear 'em.
R
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