Friday, August 13, 2010

Medarticles need full article

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Dear friends i need full articles with following details thank you

  1. Cloning and Functional Analysis of Geraniol 10-Hydroxylase, a Cytochrome P450 from Swertia mussotii Franch.

    Wang J, Liu Y, Cai Y, Zhang F, Xia G, Xiang F.

    Biosci Biotechnol Biochem. 2010 Aug 7. [Epub ahead of print]PMID: 20699579 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
  2. Arabidopsis CYP72C1 is an atypical cytochrome P450 that inactivates brassinosteroids.

    Thornton LE, Rupasinghe SG, Peng H, Schuler MA, Neff MM.

    Plant Mol Biol. 2010 Jul 30. [Epub ahead of print]PMID: 20669042 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
  3. Development of Specific Inhibitors of CYP707A, a Key Enzyme in the Catabolism of Abscisic Acid.

    Todoroki Y, Ueno K.

    Curr Med Chem. 2010 Jul 29. [Epub ahead of print]PMID: 20666721 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]



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[socialactionfoundationforequity:4354 [AIDS INDIA] Discrimination against PLHA [1 Attachment]

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--- On Thu, 12/8/10, Naz India <naz@nazindia.org> wrote:

From: Naz India <naz@nazindia.org>
Subject: [AIDS INDIA] Discrimination against PLHA [1 Attachment]
To: AIDS-INDIA@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 12 August, 2010, 15:26

 
[Attachment(s) from Naz India included below]
Dear Forum,
 
Greetings from Naz India!
 
Enclosed please find a letter written to NACO regarding the discriminatory practices of the Global Arts Village against people living with HIV. We had booked the Global Arts Village for an OVC consultation on 7-8 August. We were asked to give a declaration stating that no "AIDS patient" would be invited for the Consultation.
 
As NGOs/ institutions/ individuals working for the rights of PLHAs, we should protest against these discriminatory practices and boycott them. We would appreciate your support in this cause. Thanking you.
Regards,  

Anjali Gopalan
Executive Director
The Naz Foundation (India) Trust
A -86, East of Kailash
New Delhi -110065
91 11 26910499
91 11 41325042
www.nazindia.org
__._,_.___

Attachment(s) from Naz India

1 of 1 File(s)

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:4353 workshop - pca 2010 (9)

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--- On Fri, 13/8/10, media matters <mmindia.org@gmail.com> wrote:

From: media matters <mmindia.org@gmail.com>
Subject: workshop - pca 2010 (9)
To: "media matters" <info@mmindia.org>
Date: Friday, 13 August, 2010, 23:56

Dear Friends

Announcing our 6th Annual Workshop: Participatory Communication & Action. Please refer attachment.

We look forward to participation from your organisation and/or partners.

Regards and best wishes

Anju


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400 Sai Section, Ambernath 421501, Maharashtra, India
Tel. 91-251-2606929

84 Ansal Pradhan Enclaves, E-8 Arera Colony, Bhopal, Madhya Pradesh, India
Tel. 09425014874 / 09881261094

Email: info@mmindia.org
Website: www.mmindia.org

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi
 
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2010-Aug-13

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rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

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rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Is Chris Horner the next George Blanda? - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0399d2b6ba191b2c?hl=en
* AP on Novitsky - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e31223907bd14a76?hl=en
* Landis drug runner bike recovered. - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5d6218a605190f54?hl=en
* If you're suspended for doping, can you challenge your buddy to city limit
sign sprint? - 6 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/702f1c625f4bf6a4?hl=en
* Any more Boys from Brazil expected? - 5 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c264c8acd9ac4e9c?hl=en
* The Limitations of pro athletes - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4f848250457bd359?hl=en
* Do these girls ride side saddle or what? - 5 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a98e72461d34e54b?hl=en
* the TRON-ification of cycling has begun - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a779ee1a1df06a47?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is Chris Horner the next George Blanda?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0399d2b6ba191b2c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 11:05 am
From: Frederick the Great


In article <i42grd$2g8$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
"Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemachine@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Frederick the Great" <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:rubrum-AB7B2C.11511812082010@news.albasani.net...
> : In article <rOqdnUF2fKqCgP7RnZ2dnUVZ_o6dnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> : "Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
> :
> : > And he'll be 39 years old. I think the one thing we can all agree upon
> is
> : > that Lance proved that it's easy to ride "a Tour too far."
> :
> : The only way a champion athlete can retire
> : from the sport mentally is to get thoroughly beaten down.
> : It is the only thing he knows as an athlete;
> : the only thing that will get through the defenses.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> That's not true. There are exceptions.
>
> Sandy Koufax quit on top. So did Jim Brown and Barry Sanders.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

So did Joe DiMaggio. He retired early so he could get
at the money various "restauranteurs" had given him to
show up at their places. NTTIAWWT.

--
Old Fritz


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 11:08 am
From: Frederick the Great


In article
<ff786971-7913-431b-9aae-6873c7c67513@i4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Aug 12, 9:14 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > "Frederick the Great" <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote in messagenews:rubrum-AB7B2C.11511812082010@news.albasani.net...
> > : In article <rOqdnUF2fKqCgP7RnZ2dnUVZ_o6dn...@earthlink.com>,
> > : "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
> > :
> > : > And he'll be 39 years old. I think the one thing we can all agree upon
> > is
> > : > that Lance proved that it's easy to ride "a Tour too far."
> > :
> > : The only way a champion athlete can retire
> > : from the sport mentally is to get thoroughly beaten down.
> > : It is the only thing he knows as an athlete;
> > : the only thing that will get through the defenses.
> >
> > Dumbass -
> >
> > That's not true. There are exceptions.
> >
> > Sandy Koufax quit on top. So did Jim Brown and Barry Sanders.
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> I've said it before: boxers and football players who retire "at the
> top" are understandable, considering how brutal those sports can be,
> and how cumulative the damage is.
>
> But while I don't think I get a vote in athlete's retirement date, I
> don't think there's anything especially honorable or admirable about
> quitting on top.
>
> Aside from the example of Lance, we have a local one in hockey player
> Trevor Linden: was a first-line forward at the peak of his career, but
> spent his last year or two playing in Vancouver at near-minimum
> salaries, contributing as a 4th-liner, and apparently having fun all
> the way. He pretty much retired the moment before he would have been
> cut from the team, I think.
>
> Mark Messier is a slightly less wonderful example of staying to the
> end, but he was still an able, NHL-grade player in his final season.
> Just not a first-liner.
>
> The thing about sports is the time limits are hard and come quickly.
> I'm not sure what purpose is served, for athletes who still want to
> play, to retire before they get cut from the team: maintaining high-
> average career stats doesn't seem like enough.

Yes. Play out the string.

--
Old Fritz

==============================================================================
TOPIC: AP on Novitsky
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e31223907bd14a76?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 11:19 am
From: Frederick the Great


In article
<284ac956-02a7-4fda-9c6e-61d8a37897c3@g6g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjweiner@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Aug 11, 5:04 pm, "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > On 8/11/2010 7:42 PM, Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > The grand jury is something of a formality because, as was
> > > previously alluded to in re: U.S. vs. Ham Sandwich, a prosecutor
> > > can nearly always persuade the grand jury to return an
> > > indictment.  That does not mean the indicted party is
> > > necessarily going to be convicted by the trial jury.
> >
> > > Fredmaster Ben
> >
> > While generally true, there have been instances where grand juries have
> > refused to return an indictment.  The only thing a grand jury is there
> > for is to find there is reasonable basis on which to charge a person
> > with a crime.
>
> Here's an example - an extreme example - of a
> grand jury refusing to indict, in Phoenix:
>
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/08/12/20100812sheriff-joe-arpaio-investigation-documents-released-thursday.html
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/28d7h65
>
> It has to be said that this is a very special case, basically
> Sheriff Joe Arpaio, possibly the dirtiest, most incompetent
> law enforcement official in the US, and his crony in the
> country attorney's office, cooking up investigations of any
> politician or judge in the county who dares to cross them,
> doesn't do their bidding, or looks like a potential rival for
> power. Banana-republic type stuff. Fortunately it appears
> that their incompetence rivals their dirtiness.

You are taking sides in a dirty political fight. This
is not a typical grand jury. It is a tool in a dirty
political fight. Unsealing the records is evidence that
it is a dirty political fight. The unsealing order may
even be a move by a party in the dirty political fight.

--
Old Fritz

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Landis drug runner bike recovered.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5d6218a605190f54?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 11:44 am
From: raamman


On Aug 13, 7:23 am, Plano Dude <tx.wastel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 13, 12:15 am, raamman <raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 12, 9:08 pm, TheCoz <cycled...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/post/Bike-bought-for-5-at-yard-sale-bel...
>
> > > Found on an interstate, must have been in hot pursuit?
> > > Coz
>
> > it reveals how much spite the owner had for his custom made bike and
> > his sponsor to discard it like that.
>
> > spite.
>
> > scorn.
>
> > one flucked up boy
>
> Nice sig line.
>
> Where is your proof that *Landis* discarded the bike?

not proof; but it was given to him, that implies ownership or
responsibility for; it was not reported stolen when it went missing- I
would think that the sponsor expected the bike to kept in floyds
possession and did not request it's return (floyd probabally needed
room in his van for a few cases of beer on the way back from ledville
or wherever)


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 2:49 pm
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd


On Aug 13, 11:44 am, raamman <raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 13, 7:23 am, Plano Dude <tx.wastel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 13, 12:15 am, raamman <raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 12, 9:08 pm, TheCoz <cycled...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/post/Bike-bought-for-5-at-yard-sale-bel...
>
> > > > Found on an interstate, must have been in hot pursuit?
> > > > Coz
>
> > > it reveals how much spite the owner had for his custom made bike and
> > > his sponsor to discard it like that.
>
> > > spite.
>
> > > scorn.
>
> > > one flucked up boy
>
> > Nice sig line.
>
> > Where is your proof that *Landis* discarded the bike?
>
> not proof; but it was given to him, that implies ownership or
> responsibility for; it was not reported stolen when it went missing- I
> would think that the sponsor expected the bike to kept in floyds
> possession and did not request it's return (floyd probabally needed
> room in his van for a few cases of beer on the way back from ledville
> or wherever)

You remind me of the guy from university inventory
control who comes around each year to check the
inventory tags on the 30-year-old bookshelf, the
broken office chair that's in the hallway, the 10 year old
computer that isn't plugged in anymore. Somebody
signed for that office chair, and if it's missing there's
gonna be TROUBLE!

Fredmaster Ben


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 6:24 pm
From: raamman


On Aug 13, 5:49 pm, Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 13, 11:44 am, raamman <raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 13, 7:23 am, Plano Dude <tx.wastel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 13, 12:15 am, raamman <raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 12, 9:08 pm, TheCoz <cycled...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > >http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/post/Bike-bought-for-5-at-yard-sale-bel...
>
> > > > > Found on an interstate, must have been in hot pursuit?
> > > > > Coz
>
> > > > it reveals how much spite the owner had for his custom made bike and
> > > > his sponsor to discard it like that.
>
> > > > spite.
>
> > > > scorn.
>
> > > > one flucked up boy
>
> > > Nice sig line.
>
> > > Where is your proof that *Landis* discarded the bike?
>
> > not proof; but it was given to him, that implies ownership or
> > responsibility for; it was not reported stolen when it went missing- I
> > would think that the sponsor expected the bike to kept in floyds
> > possession and did not request it's return (floyd probabally needed
> > room in his van for a few cases of beer on the way back from ledville
> > or wherever)
>
> You remind me of the guy from university inventory
> control who comes around each year to check the
> inventory tags on the 30-year-old bookshelf, the
> broken office chair that's in the hallway, the 10 year old
> computer that isn't plugged in anymore.  Somebody
> signed for that office chair, and if it's missing there's
> gonna be TROUBLE!
>
> Fredmaster Ben- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

it did go missing; floyd had it and apparently discarded it- my point
is that floyd has no respect for his sponsors, the equiptment and by
extension, the sport. would you not wince if you saw a kid lean the
top tube of his new colnago against the corner of a brick wall ?


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 6:55 pm
From: RicodJour


On Aug 13, 9:24 pm, raamman <raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 13, 5:49 pm, Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 13, 11:44 am, raamman <raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Aug 13, 7:23 am, Plano Dude <tx.wastel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Where is your proof that *Landis* discarded the bike?
>
> > > not proof; but it was given to him, that implies ownership or
> > > responsibility for; it was not reported stolen when it went missing- I
> > > would think that the sponsor expected the bike to kept in floyds
> > > possession and did not request it's return (floyd probabally needed
> > > room in his van for a few cases of beer on the way back from ledville
> > > or wherever)
>
> > You remind me of the guy from university inventory
> > control who comes around each year to check the
> > inventory tags on the 30-year-old bookshelf, the
> > broken office chair that's in the hallway, the 10 year old
> > computer that isn't plugged in anymore.  Somebody
> > signed for that office chair, and if it's missing there's
> > gonna be TROUBLE!
>
> it did go missing; floyd had it and apparently discarded it- my point
> is that floyd has no respect for his sponsors, the equiptment and by
> extension, the sport. would you not wince if you saw a kid lean the
> top tube of his new colnago against the corner of a brick wall ?

Whether he dwarf-tossed it out of the back of the van, it was on the
roof and fell off without anybody realizing it, or it was stolen, so
what? What's the big deal? I mean seriously - do you really care?

R

==============================================================================
TOPIC: If you're suspended for doping, can you challenge your buddy to city
limit sign sprint?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/702f1c625f4bf6a4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 12:10 pm
From: --D-y


On Aug 12, 2:43 pm, Fred Flintstein <bob.schwa...@sbcremoveglobal.net>
wrote:

> There is nothing wrong with taking your sport seriously. There is
> everything wrong with expecting other people to take your sport
> seriously. Our sport is ass deep with people that think their hobby
> is much more important than a hobby.

Lots of people have avocations (dict. says from latin, "to call away")
that, again as the dictionary says, are their true passions in life,
although they might make all or most of their livings doing something
completely different.
Nothing abnormal or "wrong" about it, at least at first look.

> Look at it this way. If a rider is going to commit some sin against
> society through their riding, be it doping or be it neglecting
> other responsibilities in order to maximize racing performance

Lots of people neglect "other responsibilities" just to make a living.
My dad used to be forced under threat of instant termination with
*nothing* (pension, etc.) to work 16 hours a day, at times.

>, a
> necessary first step is to convince yourself that racing is more
> important than it actually is.

That's a personal decision. The Bosticks come to mind. I don't know
them personally or know *anything* about their private lives. Just as
an example of a totally serious racing couple (who did maintain
professional careers, come to think of it), did they commit a "sin
against society" by not giving up the racing to have a family? (which
they may have done for all I know; again, I'm only using them as a
kind of cardboard cutout example here)

I've taught my kids that the only "responsibility" they have is for
themselves. Surviving the Viet Nam War era (high school class of '67,
baby!) left me with a certain mindset about this "social contract"
bullshit, just to 'splain where I'm coming from.

> If you want people to stop charging
> up for industrial park crits, the most efficient and cost effective
> approach is to convince people to stop taking industrial park
> crits so fucking seriously.

That's where you are wrong wrong wrong. People "charge up" to feel
good (or different, anyhow <g>), to look good (ditto), to perform
better at work, so forth and so on.
You'll never "convince" the super-competitive among us to lighten up
on anything. Get real.

> And to not get bent out of shape over
> other people that aren't emotionally mature enough to come to that
> state.

Excuse me, but you sound a whole lot closer to being "bent out of
shape" than I do, if that's what you meant.

> When the NRC series came through here my kid and I went to see the
> races. One of the points I made as we watched was that almost all
> of the pros would be better off going to college rather than trying
> to make a living racing bikes.

Yeah, I've made that point over and over again with my kids, and I did
have a nice talk with one of our successful Junior racers about racing
to his utmost but also TCB on a career that will pay bills. From my
own experience in another area of life, don't you know.
They listened, but they're gonna do what they're gonna do. Then you
have to support them. I know what happens when parents don't support
their kids' interests. FWIW, not a whine because I did it my way <g>.

Suggestion: Use Dr. Eric Heiden as an example. Two sports careers
didn't keep him from becoming a doc. Hell, he could probably coasted
on that Wheaties contract, you know?
--D-y


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 12:43 pm
From: Ben Trovato


On Aug 12, 4:13 pm, Frederick the Great <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <ef671559-1c3a-4359-b15d-36ae627f7...@j8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>  Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > if someone doesn't like the rules they can set up their own governing
> > body or simply choose to compete in events run by other bodies.
>
> USA Cycling is the only organization authorized to
>
> Part 4. Conduct National Championships a n d
> select teams  to represent  the United States of
> America in international  and  Olympic
> competition.
>
> Part 5. Represent the sport of bicycle racing i n
> the United States of America to other  national,
> international, and Olympic sports organizations.
>
> so you cannot just set up your own governing body.
> USA Cycling has the franchise. You will first have
> to pry it from their cold, dead fingers. You up for
> that, Anton?
>
> --
> Old Fritz

google OBRA or FIAC.


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 1:54 pm
From: Fred Flintstein


On 8/13/2010 2:10 PM, --D-y wrote:
> On Aug 12, 2:43 pm, Fred Flintstein<bob.schwa...@sbcremoveglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>> There is nothing wrong with taking your sport seriously. There is
>> everything wrong with expecting other people to take your sport
>> seriously. Our sport is ass deep with people that think their hobby
>> is much more important than a hobby.
>
> Lots of people have avocations (dict. says from latin, "to call away")
> that, again as the dictionary says, are their true passions in life,
> although they might make all or most of their livings doing something
> completely different.
> Nothing abnormal or "wrong" about it, at least at first look.
>
>> Look at it this way. If a rider is going to commit some sin against
>> society through their riding, be it doping or be it neglecting
>> other responsibilities in order to maximize racing performance
>
> Lots of people neglect "other responsibilities" just to make a living.
> My dad used to be forced under threat of instant termination with
> *nothing* (pension, etc.) to work 16 hours a day, at times.
>
>> , a
>> necessary first step is to convince yourself that racing is more
>> important than it actually is.
>
> That's a personal decision. The Bosticks come to mind. I don't know
> them personally or know *anything* about their private lives. Just as
> an example of a totally serious racing couple (who did maintain
> professional careers, come to think of it), did they commit a "sin
> against society" by not giving up the racing to have a family? (which
> they may have done for all I know; again, I'm only using them as a
> kind of cardboard cutout example here)
>
> I've taught my kids that the only "responsibility" they have is for
> themselves. Surviving the Viet Nam War era (high school class of '67,
> baby!) left me with a certain mindset about this "social contract"
> bullshit, just to 'splain where I'm coming from.
>
>> If you want people to stop charging
>> up for industrial park crits, the most efficient and cost effective
>> approach is to convince people to stop taking industrial park
>> crits so fucking seriously.
>
> That's where you are wrong wrong wrong. People "charge up" to feel
> good (or different, anyhow<g>), to look good (ditto), to perform
> better at work, so forth and so on.
> You'll never "convince" the super-competitive among us to lighten up
> on anything. Get real.
>
>> And to not get bent out of shape over
>> other people that aren't emotionally mature enough to come to that
>> state.
>
> Excuse me, but you sound a whole lot closer to being "bent out of
> shape" than I do, if that's what you meant.
>
>> When the NRC series came through here my kid and I went to see the
>> races. One of the points I made as we watched was that almost all
>> of the pros would be better off going to college rather than trying
>> to make a living racing bikes.
>
> Yeah, I've made that point over and over again with my kids, and I did
> have a nice talk with one of our successful Junior racers about racing
> to his utmost but also TCB on a career that will pay bills. From my
> own experience in another area of life, don't you know.
> They listened, but they're gonna do what they're gonna do. Then you
> have to support them. I know what happens when parents don't support
> their kids' interests. FWIW, not a whine because I did it my way<g>.
>
> Suggestion: Use Dr. Eric Heiden as an example. Two sports careers
> didn't keep him from becoming a doc. Hell, he could probably coasted
> on that Wheaties contract, you know?
> --D-y

Just to clarify, I did not say that taking your sport seriously is
a crime against humanity. What I said was... "There is nothing
wrong with taking your sport seriously. There is everything wrong
with expecting other people to take your sport seriously. Our sport
is ass deep with people that think their hobby is much more
important than a hobby."

rbr is a hobby to me. I don't expect anyone to take it that
seriously.

As a side note, Eric Heiden took his skating very seriously. But
we both know Fatty Masters that take cycling more seriously than
he did and he did, in fact, ride the Tour.

Fred Flintstein


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 2:45 pm
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd


On Aug 12, 4:13 pm, Frederick the Great <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <ef671559-1c3a-4359-b15d-36ae627f7...@j8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>  Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > if someone doesn't like the rules they can set up their own governing
> > body or simply choose to compete in events run by other bodies.
>
> USA Cycling is the only organization authorized to
>
> Part 4. Conduct National Championships a n d
> select teams  to represent  the United States of
> America in international  and  Olympic
> competition.
>
> Part 5. Represent the sport of bicycle racing i n
> the United States of America to other  national,
> international, and Olympic sports organizations.
>
> so you cannot just set up your own governing body.
> USA Cycling has the franchise. You will first have
> to pry it from their cold, dead fingers. You up for
> that, Anton?

Actually they just have the franchise on national
championships and international competition.
As (se non vero, e) Ben Trovato pointed out, you can
promote a race and get it sanctioned (and insured)
through other organizations: FIAC, OBRA, CBR.

In principle, a USAC rider cannot ride in a race
sanctioned by another organization. In practice,
USAC does not enforce that rule, especially at the
category level. It would only become an issue
if you do something that really gets under their
skin or violates the spirit of a rule. That seems
arbitrary, but in practice it generally works. USAC
doesn't worry about some random rider showing
up to a local non-USAC MTB race on the weekend
(I don't think they even care about a Div 3 pro
doing the same). But if you race a non-USAC race
while suspended, it's thumbing your nose at the
suspension and you shouldn't be totally surprised
that the governing body gets agitated.

Fredmaster Ben

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 4:43 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article
<35d85757-013a-4569-b0bc-2cd2fbdcd7fa@n19g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjweiner@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Aug 12, 4:13 pm, Frederick the Great <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > In article
> > <ef671559-1c3a-4359-b15d-36ae627f7...@j8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
> >  Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > if someone doesn't like the rules they can set up their own governing
> > > body or simply choose to compete in events run by other bodies.
> >
> > USA Cycling is the only organization authorized to
> >
> > Part 4. Conduct National Championships a n d
> > select teams  to represent  the United States of
> > America in international  and  Olympic
> > competition.
> >
> > Part 5. Represent the sport of bicycle racing i n
> > the United States of America to other  national,
> > international, and Olympic sports organizations.
> >
> > so you cannot just set up your own governing body.
> > USA Cycling has the franchise. You will first have
> > to pry it from their cold, dead fingers. You up for
> > that, Anton?
>
> Actually they just have the franchise on national
> championships and international competition.
> As (se non vero, e) Ben Trovato pointed out, you can
> promote a race and get it sanctioned (and insured)
> through other organizations: FIAC, OBRA, CBR.
>
> In principle, a USAC rider cannot ride in a race
> sanctioned by another organization. In practice,
> USAC does not enforce that rule, especially at the
> category level. It would only become an issue
> if you do something that really gets under their
> skin or violates the spirit of a rule. That seems
> arbitrary, but in practice it generally works. USAC
> doesn't worry about some random rider showing
> up to a local non-USAC MTB race on the weekend
> (I don't think they even care about a Div 3 pro
> doing the same). But if you race a non-USAC race
> while suspended, it's thumbing your nose at the
> suspension and you shouldn't be totally surprised
> that the governing body gets agitated.

Thus is Amit's advice confounded.

"if someone doesn't like the rules they can set up their own governing
body or simply choose to compete in events run by other bodies."

USAC rules the roost; and there is nothing anybody
can do about it, short of proving gross malfeasance
by USAC; and sustained efforts to do that have come
to naught.

--
Old Fritz


== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 6:24 pm
From: Amit Ghosh


On Aug 13, 7:43 pm, Frederick the Great <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <35d85757-013a-4569-b0bc-2cd2fbdcd...@n19g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>  Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 12, 4:13 pm, Frederick the Great <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <ef671559-1c3a-4359-b15d-36ae627f7...@j8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
> > >  Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > if someone doesn't like the rules they can set up their own governing
> > > > body or simply choose to compete in events run by other bodies.
>
> > > USA Cycling is the only organization authorized to
>
> > > Part 4. Conduct National Championships a n d
> > > select teams  to represent  the United States of
> > > America in international  and  Olympic
> > > competition.
>
> > > Part 5. Represent the sport of bicycle racing i n
> > > the United States of America to other  national,
> > > international, and Olympic sports organizations.
>
> > > so you cannot just set up your own governing body.
> > > USA Cycling has the franchise. You will first have
> > > to pry it from their cold, dead fingers. You up for
> > > that, Anton?
>
> > Actually they just have the franchise on national
> > championships and international competition.
> > As (se non vero, e) Ben Trovato pointed out, you can
> > promote a race and get it sanctioned (and insured)
> > through other organizations: FIAC, OBRA, CBR.
>
> > In principle, a USAC rider cannot ride in a race
> > sanctioned by another organization.  In practice,
> > USAC does not enforce that rule, especially at the
> > category level.  It would only become an issue
> > if you do something that really gets under their
> > skin or violates the spirit of a rule.  That seems
> > arbitrary, but in practice it generally works.  USAC
> > doesn't worry about some random rider showing
> > up to a local non-USAC MTB race on the weekend
> > (I don't think they even care about a Div 3 pro
> > doing the same).  But if you race a non-USAC race
> > while suspended, it's thumbing your nose at the
> > suspension and you shouldn't be totally surprised
> > that the governing body gets agitated.
>
> Thus is Amit's advice confounded.
>
> "if someone doesn't like the rules they can set up their own governing
> body or simply choose to compete in events run by other bodies."
>
> USAC rules the roost; and there is nothing anybody
> can do about it, short of proving gross malfeasance
> by USAC; and sustained efforts to do that have come
> to naught.
>

dumbass,

anyone can buy insurance and put on a cycling event. it doesn't have
to be through USAC, but organizers affiliate with some governing body
because there are advantages.

the question wasn't about who gets to crown national champions. i'm
not even sure that's even fundamentally that important.

the NBA doesn't crown a "national champion" or a "world champion", but
it is still the most important championship on basketball because it
is acknowledged as the league with the best players.

various pro football leagues had been set up in the US which would
partly compete with the NFL (XFL,CFL), but because they didn't succeed
doesn't mean it's not possible - i don't see what "gross malfeasance"
has to do with anything.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Any more Boys from Brazil expected?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c264c8acd9ac4e9c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 2:35 pm
From: Choppy Warburton


Carpenter / Phinney's mutant has been doing pretty well and now
injected with Armstrong doping expertise I see no reason the kid won't
win the next 12 Tours in a row.

But does anyone know if there are more spawn of cyclists coming down
the road anytime soon? Care to speculate on chance hook up and
encounters 20 years ago?


== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 2:36 pm
From: "B. Lafferty"


On 8/13/2010 5:35 PM, Choppy Warburton wrote:
> Carpenter / Phinney's mutant has been doing pretty well and now
> injected with Armstrong doping expertise I see no reason the kid won't
> win the next 12 Tours in a row.
>
> But does anyone know if there are more spawn of cyclists coming down
> the road anytime soon? Care to speculate on chance hook up and
> encounters 20 years ago?

Did Rebecca Twigg ever have a kid?


== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 2:54 pm
From: "A. Dumas"


Choppy Warburton wrote:
> But does anyone know if there are more spawn of cyclists coming down
> the road anytime soon? Care to speculate on chance hook up and
> encounters 20 years ago?

I heard Burt Hoovis had a fling with Tammy Thomas.


== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 2:59 pm
From: bar


On Aug 13, 5:54 pm, "A. Dumas" <alexan...@dumas.fr> wrote:
> Choppy Warburton wrote:
> > But does anyone know if there are more spawn of cyclists coming down
> > the road anytime soon?   Care to speculate on chance hook up and
> > encounters 20 years ago?
>
> I heard Burt Hoovis had a fling with Tammy Thomas.

i thought Burt was Tammy Thomas.


== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 3:16 pm
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"

"Choppy Warburton" <choppywarburton@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:556a22f9-db96-434d-b2f0-104f965ac0d7@x21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
: Carpenter / Phinney's mutant has been doing pretty well and now
: injected with Armstrong doping expertise I see no reason the kid won't
: win the next 12 Tours in a row.


Dumbass -

He makes a lotta watts, but he still weighs too much.

Good for Paris-Roubaix, bad for TdF.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Limitations of pro athletes
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4f848250457bd359?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 3:07 pm
From: RicodJour


On Aug 13, 11:12 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I agree with all of this, more or less. Except the part about people
> on rbr. I'm well-rounded: I like computers, arguing, and sprinting.
> That's three interests, surely enough.

I like climbing, but I couldn't sprint my way past a kid on a trike
without Renshaw head-butting him...or her. Does that mean I'm not
well-rounded? If you say yes, I may have to draw some conclusions
about your love of sprinting and your well-rounded jersey. :)~

R

PS You left out drinking.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do these girls ride side saddle or what?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a98e72461d34e54b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 3:10 pm
From: TheCoz


http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/cgi/gallerypicget.asp?pic=http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/babes/babes10/otbf-amsterdam.jpg

Coz


== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 3:32 pm
From: "Mr. Slate"


TheCoz wrote:
> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/cgi/gallerypicget.asp?pic=http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/babes/babes10/otbf-amsterdam.jpg
>
> Coz

Oh, looking for this thread? Longest in the history of the Internet. Start
on page 159 and go backwards.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=2133&page=159


== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 5:24 pm
From: dave a


On 8/13/2010 3:32 PM, Mr. Slate wrote:
> TheCoz wrote:
>> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/cgi/gallerypicget.asp?pic=http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/babes/babes10/otbf-amsterdam.jpg
>>
>> Coz
>
> Oh, looking for this thread? Longest in the history of the Internet. Start
> on page 159 and go backwards.
> http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=2133&page=159
>
>

Don't waste your time, just start and 'end' on 153.


== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 6:03 pm
From: RicodJour


On Aug 13, 8:24 pm, dave a <blkcatREMOVET...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/13/2010 3:32 PM, Mr. Slate wrote:
>
> > TheCoz wrote:
> >>http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/cgi/gallerypicget.asp?pic=http://www.pe...
>
> >> Coz
>
> > Oh, looking for this thread? Longest in the history of the Internet. Start
> > on page 159 and go backwards.
> >http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=2133&page=159
>
> Don't waste your time, just start and 'end' on 153.

From a link on that page:
http://www.ciclismo-espresso.com/2010/08/gilberts-wife-got-talent.html
Busted!

R


== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 6:47 pm
From: Plano Dude


On Aug 13, 5:32 pm, "Mr. Slate" <LikeFl...@NoSpammers.com> wrote:
> TheCoz wrote:
> >http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/cgi/gallerypicget.asp?pic=http://www.pe...
>
> > Coz
>
> Oh, looking for this thread? Longest in the history of the Internet. Start
> on page 159 and go backwards.http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=2133&page=159

How many were posted (or collected) by Bruce?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: the TRON-ification of cycling has begun
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a779ee1a1df06a47?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 3:13 pm
From: RicodJour


On Aug 13, 11:28 am, bar <barbari...@gmail.com> wrote:
> imagine a twilight crit with the whole peloton running these ...
>
>  http://www.nightbrighttyre.com/
>
> or seeing the liquigas or lampre boys rolling with some appropriately
> lit up tyres ...

I think crushing rapidly reproducing bio-luminescent organisms, and
then using the resultant decay methane to power a Gruber Assist would
be better. It's green technology.

R


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Today's topics:

* Landis drug runner bike recovered. - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5d6218a605190f54?hl=en
* Lance's room service in France will have a little extra urine in the OJ from
this day on - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/56d6062ae8d124f9?hl=en
* The Limitations of pro athletes - 6 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4f848250457bd359?hl=en
* AP on Novitsky - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e31223907bd14a76?hl=en
* Can See if You're Not There - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/fe96f6e1a4454984?hl=en
* RBR Dating Prospects - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c19ed38a03a9e5a9?hl=en
* the TRON-ification of cycling has begun - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a779ee1a1df06a47?hl=en
* Is Chris Horner the next George Blanda? - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0399d2b6ba191b2c?hl=en
* Question about drug-related prosecutions - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/d96f6ac541ef20dc?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Landis drug runner bike recovered.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5d6218a605190f54?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 12 2010 10:15 pm
From: raamman


On Aug 12, 9:08 pm, TheCoz <cycled...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/post/Bike-bought-for-5-at-yard-sale-bel...
>
> Found on an interstate, must have been in hot pursuit?
> Coz

it reveals how much spite the owner had for his custom made bike and
his sponsor to discard it like that.

spite.

scorn.

one flucked up boy


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 4:23 am
From: Plano Dude


On Aug 13, 12:15 am, raamman <raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 12, 9:08 pm, TheCoz <cycled...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/post/Bike-bought-for-5-at-yard-sale-bel...
>
> > Found on an interstate, must have been in hot pursuit?
> > Coz
>
> it reveals how much spite the owner had for his custom made bike and
> his sponsor to discard it like that.
>
> spite.
>
> scorn.
>
> one flucked up boy


Nice sig line.

Where is your proof that *Landis* discarded the bike?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lance's room service in France will have a little extra urine in the OJ
from this day on
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/56d6062ae8d124f9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 12:48 am
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"

"Sneakyfox Pepsifranke" <sneaky.fox.and.pepsi.franke@gmail.com> wrote in
message
news:732bda9d-6bdb-4a14-b017-ad81b4b0b36e@d8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
> http://road.cc/content/news/21355-lance-armstrong-declares-war-french-hotel-industry
>
> Wouldn't be surprised if some of those hotel owners also pull out of
> their safes a few needles and IV bags they found after US Postal's
> departure.
>
> Lance - you're an idiot and you would know that it was Hitler's bad
> decision to fight on more than one front that led, in part, to his
> demise.

This story surprises me, because when my son and I visited the Discovery
hotel in Pau a few years ago, it was palatial. We saw where other teams
were staying, and some of them were the equivalent of a run-down Motel
6. I was very surprised to read about the rules of the ASO, according to
the article, that required teams to stay in TdF-supplied hotels. It did
say that teams will stay in better places on some days than others, and
they try to make sure it all evens out in the end (no team seeing
overall better or worse treatment I guess).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 6:19 am
From: Anton Berlin


While I never ended up in bunk beds the range of what is 4 star in one
location vs another is pretty shocking.

4 stars in Paris is always quite nice but I've 4 stars elsewhere that
are like college dorms rooms. Germany and Switzerland are always
nice. Italy a gamble.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 9:55 am
From: Plano Dude


On Aug 12, 3:25 pm, Sneakyfox Pepsifranke
<sneaky.fox.and.pepsi.fra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://road.cc/content/news/21355-lance-armstrong-declares-war-french...
>
> Wouldn't be surprised if some of those hotel owners also pull out of
> their safes a few needles and IV bags they found after US Postal's
> departure.
>
> Lance - you're an idiot and you would know that it was Hitler's bad
> decision to fight on more than one front that led, in part, to his
> demise.

I wonder what this may do to his motivational speaking income. At one
point he was getting $150k for a 30 minute speech.

Of course, the drug investigation isn't helping his price either.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Limitations of pro athletes
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4f848250457bd359?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 3:01 am
From: "A. Dumas"


Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> "A. Dumas" wrote:
>> Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
>>> rose to power by standing on the shoulders
>>> (or necks) of their colleagues, and nobody asks whether these
>>> are well-rounded personalities.
>>
>> Like, do they play the tuba?
>
> You referring to Cannino?

Neck - tuba. Was there ever any doubt?


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 8:12 am
From: Ryan Cousineau


On Aug 12, 1:37 pm, Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 12, 10:46 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2010/08/tradeoff...
>
> > Quoting from a 1995 David Foster Wallace essay, "The String Theory":
>
> > .. it's better for us not to know the kinds of sacrifices the
> > professional-grade athlete has made to get so very good at one
> > particular thing. Oh, we'll invoke lush cliches about the lonely
> > heroism of Olympic athletes, the pain and analgesia of football, the
> > early rising and hours of practice and restricted diets, the preflight
> > celibacy, et cetera. But the actual facts of the sacrifices repel us
> > when we see them: basketball geniuses who cannot read, sprinters who
> > dope themselves, defensive tackles who shoot up with bovine hormones
> > until they collapse or explode. We prefer not to consider closely the
> > shockingly vapid and primitive comments uttered by athletes in
> > postcontest interviews or to consider what impoverishments in one's
> > mental life would allow people actually to think the way great
> > athletes seem to think. Note the way "up close and personal" profiles
> > of professional athletes strain so hard to find evidence of a rounded
> > human life -- outside interests and activities, values beyond the
> > sport. We ignore what's obvious, that most of this straining is farce.
> > It's farce because the realities of top-level athletics today require
> > an early and total commitment to one area of excellence. An ascetic
> > focus. A subsumption of almost all other features of human life to one
> > chosen talent and pursuit. A consent to live in a world that, like a
> > child's world, is very small.
>
> > Complete essay here:
>
> >http://www.esquire.com/features/sports/the-string-theory-0796
>
> > I reiterate once again my love of amateur bike racing.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> You've read "De Renner."  And you know the teeth-gritting
> mentality of the amateur bike racer.
>
> People on rbr are not in a position to criticize pro athletes
> for being obsessives.
>
> It takes a certain dedication to become one of the best or most
> extreme at a given pursuit.  This does not necessarily mean
> that the most extreme are the most one-dimensional.  Extreme
> outlier people are often outliers in more than just their main
> pursuit.  Maybe that is not true of professional athletes, who
> have had to give up an education and also spend a lot of their
> time being told how great they are.  But I'll bet that, while the
> general public wishes to live in ignorance of sprinters
> doping themselves, their choice to dope itself has relatively little
> to do with whether they are are diminished personalities.
>
> It's just an example of societal hypocrisy.  We read fawning profiles
> of CEOs who work 80 hours a week, spend most of their time
> on airplanes, and rose to power by standing on the shoulders
> (or necks) of their colleagues, and nobody asks whether these
> are well-rounded personalities.  They do what they have to do
> to be successes.  But there's something about athletes that
> makes people fans, and fans want to imagine that the object
> of their adoration is like a buddy to them - few people feel that
> about CEOs.
>
> David Foster Wallace, his talent, his varied interests (how many
> novelists have something intelligent to say about athletics?) and,
> sadly, his fate, is actually a fairly good example of the extremism
> of the extreme talent himself.
>
> Fredmaster Ben

I agree with all of this, more or less. Except the part about people
on rbr. I'm well-rounded: I like computers, arguing, and sprinting.
That's three interests, surely enough.


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 10:43 am
From: Frederick the Great


In article
<6385c312-2140-49b8-bc41-b7eee739721c@v6g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjweiner@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Aug 12, 10:46 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2010/08/tradeoff...
> >
> > Quoting from a 1995 David Foster Wallace essay, "The String Theory":
> >
> > .. it's better for us not to know the kinds of sacrifices the
> > professional-grade athlete has made to get so very good at one
> > particular thing. Oh, we'll invoke lush cliches about the lonely
> > heroism of Olympic athletes, the pain and analgesia of football, the
> > early rising and hours of practice and restricted diets, the preflight
> > celibacy, et cetera. But the actual facts of the sacrifices repel us
> > when we see them: basketball geniuses who cannot read, sprinters who
> > dope themselves, defensive tackles who shoot up with bovine hormones
> > until they collapse or explode. We prefer not to consider closely the
> > shockingly vapid and primitive comments uttered by athletes in
> > postcontest interviews or to consider what impoverishments in one's
> > mental life would allow people actually to think the way great
> > athletes seem to think. Note the way "up close and personal" profiles
> > of professional athletes strain so hard to find evidence of a rounded
> > human life -- outside interests and activities, values beyond the
> > sport. We ignore what's obvious, that most of this straining is farce.
> > It's farce because the realities of top-level athletics today require
> > an early and total commitment to one area of excellence. An ascetic
> > focus. A subsumption of almost all other features of human life to one
> > chosen talent and pursuit. A consent to live in a world that, like a
> > child's world, is very small.
> >
> > Complete essay here:
> >
> > http://www.esquire.com/features/sports/the-string-theory-0796
> >
> > I reiterate once again my love of amateur bike racing.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> You've read "De Renner." And you know the teeth-gritting
> mentality of the amateur bike racer.
>
> People on rbr are not in a position to criticize pro athletes
> for being obsessives.
>
> It takes a certain dedication to become one of the best or most
> extreme at a given pursuit. This does not necessarily mean
> that the most extreme are the most one-dimensional. Extreme
> outlier people are often outliers in more than just their main
> pursuit. Maybe that is not true of professional athletes, who
> have had to give up an education and also spend a lot of their
> time being told how great they are. But I'll bet that, while the
> general public wishes to live in ignorance of sprinters
> doping themselves, their choice to dope itself has relatively little
> to do with whether they are are diminished personalities.

[...]

> David Foster Wallace, his talent, his varied interests (how many
> novelists have something intelligent to say about athletics?) and,
> sadly, his fate, is actually a fairly good example of the extremism
> of the extreme talent himself.

Have you read his work? The excerpt above does make me
want to read DFW. He seems to leave out important
things that would naturally occur to someone of his
apparent perspicacity; charity, for one.

--
Old Fritz


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 10:47 am
From: Michael Press


In article <314ej7-gni.ln1@donaldm.homeip.net>,
"Beloved Fred No. 1" <none@mailinator.com> wrote:

> On 08/12/10 22:37, Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
> > It takes a certain dedication to become one of the best or most
> > extreme at a given pursuit. This does not necessarily mean
> > that the most extreme are the most one-dimensional.
>
> However witness Lafferties dimensions.

Greater than some Cantor dusts.

--
Michael Press


== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 10:52 am
From: Frederick the Great


In article
<a3ffe493-0c34-443f-84d5-f6c5c6f922bf@f6g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Aug 12, 1:37 pm, Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 12, 10:46 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2010/08/tradeoff...
> >
> > > Quoting from a 1995 David Foster Wallace essay, "The String Theory":
> >
> > > .. it's better for us not to know the kinds of sacrifices the
> > > professional-grade athlete has made to get so very good at one
> > > particular thing. Oh, we'll invoke lush cliches about the lonely
> > > heroism of Olympic athletes, the pain and analgesia of football, the
> > > early rising and hours of practice and restricted diets, the preflight
> > > celibacy, et cetera. But the actual facts of the sacrifices repel us
> > > when we see them: basketball geniuses who cannot read, sprinters who
> > > dope themselves, defensive tackles who shoot up with bovine hormones
> > > until they collapse or explode. We prefer not to consider closely the
> > > shockingly vapid and primitive comments uttered by athletes in
> > > postcontest interviews or to consider what impoverishments in one's
> > > mental life would allow people actually to think the way great
> > > athletes seem to think. Note the way "up close and personal" profiles
> > > of professional athletes strain so hard to find evidence of a rounded
> > > human life -- outside interests and activities, values beyond the
> > > sport. We ignore what's obvious, that most of this straining is farce.
> > > It's farce because the realities of top-level athletics today require
> > > an early and total commitment to one area of excellence. An ascetic
> > > focus. A subsumption of almost all other features of human life to one
> > > chosen talent and pursuit. A consent to live in a world that, like a
> > > child's world, is very small.
> >
> > > Complete essay here:
> >
> > >http://www.esquire.com/features/sports/the-string-theory-0796
> >
> > > I reiterate once again my love of amateur bike racing.
> >
> > Dumbass,
> >
> > You've read "De Renner."  And you know the teeth-gritting
> > mentality of the amateur bike racer.
> >
> > People on rbr are not in a position to criticize pro athletes
> > for being obsessives.
> >
> > It takes a certain dedication to become one of the best or most
> > extreme at a given pursuit.  This does not necessarily mean
> > that the most extreme are the most one-dimensional.  Extreme
> > outlier people are often outliers in more than just their main
> > pursuit.  Maybe that is not true of professional athletes, who
> > have had to give up an education and also spend a lot of their
> > time being told how great they are.  But I'll bet that, while the
> > general public wishes to live in ignorance of sprinters
> > doping themselves, their choice to dope itself has relatively little
> > to do with whether they are are diminished personalities.
> >
> > It's just an example of societal hypocrisy.  We read fawning profiles
> > of CEOs who work 80 hours a week, spend most of their time
> > on airplanes, and rose to power by standing on the shoulders
> > (or necks) of their colleagues, and nobody asks whether these
> > are well-rounded personalities.  They do what they have to do
> > to be successes.  But there's something about athletes that
> > makes people fans, and fans want to imagine that the object
> > of their adoration is like a buddy to them - few people feel that
> > about CEOs.
> >
> > David Foster Wallace, his talent, his varied interests (how many
> > novelists have something intelligent to say about athletics?) and,
> > sadly, his fate, is actually a fairly good example of the extremism
> > of the extreme talent himself.
> >
> > Fredmaster Ben
>
> I agree with all of this, more or less. Except the part about people
> on rbr. I'm well-rounded: I like computers, arguing, and sprinting.
> That's three interests, surely enough.

This beggars belief.
If you _really_ liked arguing
you would be arguing with Lafferty.

--
Old Fritz


== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 10:57 am
From: "William R. Mattil"


Frederick the Great wrote:

>>> Fredmaster Ben
>> I agree with all of this, more or less. Except the part about people
>> on rbr. I'm well-rounded: I like computers, arguing, and sprinting.
>> That's three interests, surely enough.
>
> This beggars belief.
> If you _really_ liked arguing
> you would be arguing with Lafferty.
>


Since Laff@me doesn't have any comprehension skills arguing with him is
a waste of time. Perhaps the subtle difference ?


Bill

--

William R. Mattil

http://www.celestial-images.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: AP on Novitsky
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e31223907bd14a76?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 3:56 am
From: "Beloved Fred No. 1"


Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
> Here's an example - an extreme example - of a
> grand jury refusing to indict, in Phoenix:
>
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/08/12/20100812sheriff-joe-arpaio-investigation-documents-released-thursday.html
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/28d7h65
>
> It has to be said that this is a very special case, basically
> Sheriff Joe Arpaio, possibly the dirtiest, most incompetent
> law enforcement official in the US, and his crony in the
> country attorney's office, cooking up investigations of any
> politician or judge in the county who dares to cross them,
> doesn't do their bidding, or looks like a potential rival for
> power.

Hoover is an inspirational figure.


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 8:22 am
From: Ryan Cousineau


On Aug 12, 5:32 pm, snogfest <snogfest_hosebe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 12, 5:57 pm, Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 11, 9:55 pm, snogfest <snogfest_hosebe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 12, 2:31 pm, LawBoy01 <phi...@pwm-law.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > this seems very "un-American"- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text
>
> > > > Can't be un-American because it's part of the Constitution.  Can it be
> > > > unfair?  Sure.  But at the same time, it would be unfair to the People
> > > > if the Government couldn't investigate until it had probable cause.
> > > > You shouldn't be able to get away with breaking the law just because
> > > > you're not flagrant.  And yes, this applies to Lance as much as it
> > > > does to me.
>
> > > If LA (or whoever) lacks the $ to hire a lawyer, what happens ?
>
> > > I guess I don't like the implication that a court that doesn't (seem)
> > > to follow the rules of evidence and innocent until proven guilty can
> > > grill people without them having adequate counsel.
> > > Except Marion Jones, she was a DAMF ho'
>
> > Innocent until proven guilty applies to trials.  Grand juries
> > aren't trials.  You can't be found guilty of anything by a
> > grand jury, only indicted.  You can be compelled to testify,
> > and the testimony can't be used for other purposes - grand jury
> > testimony is secret, which is why one of the lawyers in the
> > BALCO case got nailed for leaking it.  However, you better not
> > lie to a grand jury or you can be charged with perjury.
>
> > I don't know the rules on whether a person who cannot
> > afford counsel can ask for legal advice from e.g. Legal Aid
> > lawyers (?).
>
> > Your attitude toward Marion Jones and dopers in general
> > is deplorable and  undermines everything else you say.
> > I don't particularly like Jones, but you can't have two sets of
> > laws, one for people you think are guilty and one for people
> > you think are innocent.
>
> > Fredmaster Ben
>
> I don't know that I said MJ was guilty and anyone else wasn't. Just
> that she was a DAMF ho'. She certainly seems to have been at least
> guilty of fibbing.
> I am nothing if not hypocritical, condescending and sanctimonious.
> My argument with LA - actually anyone accused of cheating - is that we
> all deserve the right of innocence and a Fair Go.
>
> I read somewhere, I think it was to do with Nixon, that *nobody* can
> survive having their life put under a microscope. We all fall short of
> the glory ©  Lenny Kravitz

The sentiment goes back somewhat further than that:

"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of
men, I will find something in them which will hang him."

This is attributed to Cardinal de Richelieu, but the attribution is
disputed. the quote was known at least as early as 1867, though.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Cardinal_Richelieu


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Can See if You're Not There
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/fe96f6e1a4454984?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 6:28 am
From: Anton Berlin


On Aug 12, 5:36 pm, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 12, 6:10 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 12, 2:12 pm, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 12, 2:59 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > My point is more that each individual better take a vested interest in
> > > > their own health through education and preventative measures and not
> > > > rely on some altruistic organization once they have cancer, diabetes
> > > > etc.
>
> > > > These organizations are comprised of people that benefit from the
> > > > existence of the diseases they 'want to eradicate'.
>
> > > That's like saying a doctor or nurse doesn't want people to get better
> > > because they'd be out of a job.
>
> > > Do you believe that lobbying is best done by a motley crew of
> > > disorganized individuals representing themselves, or by a professional
> > > representative?
>
> > > R
>
> > It's not like saying that at all.  It's SAYING that without cancer
> > there would be no foundation and the radiologists, oncologists and
> > pharma would be out of work and  closed the next day if it was
> > discovered that swallowing a housefly cured every form of cancer.
>
> > Their homes, cars, vacations, student loans are paid for by sick
> > people and the idea of people that think it's good karma to give to
> > these causes.  And despite the ACS charter to 'prevent cancer' if you
> > had read the information you would see then when they had a chance to
> > influence policy on PREVENTING CANCER they had no opinion or back out
> > of testifying or or.
>
> > It's god damn stupid to wear a ribbon, (or a yellow wristband)  donate
> > $50 and think you're doing something good AGAINST cancer.  More than
> > likely you are feeding the machine that lives off of cancer.  Better
> > to spend that money on sunscreen and a book on natural diet and
> > preventative measures for cancer.
>
> If there were a cure for cancer it would be a million times harder to
> suppress it then a Paris Hilton sex tape.  The person who 'discovered'
> it, brought it to light, blew the whistle, or whatever, would be
> lauded for centuries to come, would never have to buy a beer or a meal
> in their life, etc., etc.
>
> I like conspiracy theories as much as the next crackpot, just not
> stupid ones.
>
> Now, if you'd said that the research money was being misdirected due
> to the financial pictures in play of the big boys, I'd be in lock step
> with you, bro.
>
> R

Once again - I am not saying there is a cure for cancer and that
someone is hiding it. And I'm not saying that they misuse research
funds (although I am sure they do)

The point is - they have little interest in cancer prevention and
people need to educate themselves.

(and that Lance Armstrong foundation is a rounding error in the
wasteland )

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 9:01 am
From: Fred Flintstein


On 8/13/2010 8:28 AM, Anton Berlin wrote:
> The point is - they have little interest in cancer prevention and
> people need to educate themselves.
>

Dumbass, irony just walked up and whacked you really hard upside
the head. Did you notice? You are to medical analysis what Lafferty
is to rbr legal analysis.

Fred Flintstein


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 10:16 am
From: Michael Press


In article
<d069cae6-3a34-40dc-b29e-d773d86946fa@t20g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
Anton Berlin <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote:

> My point is more that each individual better take a vested interest in
> their own health through education and preventative measures and not
> rely on some altruistic organization once they have cancer, diabetes
> etc.

Agree on the first part.
Anybody can get sick.
In most such organizations
there are people doing good
work--work aligned with the
ideals of the organization.

I have personally benefitted
from the good will of people
working in organizations that
are sometimes spoken badly of.

--
Michael Press

==============================================================================
TOPIC: RBR Dating Prospects
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c19ed38a03a9e5a9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 6:47 am
From: Anton Berlin


http://i36.tinypic.com/29cxnd0.jpg


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 8:07 am
From: Amit Ghosh


On Aug 13, 9:47 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://i36.tinypic.com/29cxnd0.jpg

dumbass,

rbr user definitely has the BMI edge.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: the TRON-ification of cycling has begun
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a779ee1a1df06a47?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 8:28 am
From: bar


imagine a twilight crit with the whole peloton running these ...

http://www.nightbrighttyre.com/

or seeing the liquigas or lampre boys rolling with some appropriately
lit up tyres ...

-b-


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 8:58 am
From: Fred Flintstein


On 8/13/2010 10:28 AM, bar wrote:
> imagine a twilight crit with the whole peloton running these ...
>
> http://www.nightbrighttyre.com/
>
> or seeing the liquigas or lampre boys rolling with some appropriately
> lit up tyres ...
>
> -b-

I've used the motion sensor activated valve cap lights, sets on
my commuter and on my kid's bike. The switches all failed very
quickly. I'm surprised they found an investor.

Fred Flintstein

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is Chris Horner the next George Blanda?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0399d2b6ba191b2c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 9:02 am
From: Ryan Cousineau


On Aug 12, 9:14 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> "Frederick the Great" <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote in messagenews:rubrum-AB7B2C.11511812082010@news.albasani.net...
> : In article <rOqdnUF2fKqCgP7RnZ2dnUVZ_o6dn...@earthlink.com>,
> : "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
> :
> : > And he'll be 39 years old. I think the one thing we can all agree upon
> is
> : > that Lance proved that it's easy to ride "a Tour too far."
> :
> : The only way a champion athlete can retire
> : from the sport mentally is to get thoroughly beaten down.
> : It is the only thing he knows as an athlete;
> : the only thing that will get through the defenses.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> That's not true. There are exceptions.
>
> Sandy Koufax quit on top. So did Jim Brown and Barry Sanders.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

I've said it before: boxers and football players who retire "at the
top" are understandable, considering how brutal those sports can be,
and how cumulative the damage is.

But while I don't think I get a vote in athlete's retirement date, I
don't think there's anything especially honorable or admirable about
quitting on top.

Aside from the example of Lance, we have a local one in hockey player
Trevor Linden: was a first-line forward at the peak of his career, but
spent his last year or two playing in Vancouver at near-minimum
salaries, contributing as a 4th-liner, and apparently having fun all
the way. He pretty much retired the moment before he would have been
cut from the team, I think.

Mark Messier is a slightly less wonderful example of staying to the
end, but he was still an able, NHL-grade player in his final season.
Just not a first-liner.

The thing about sports is the time limits are hard and come quickly.
I'm not sure what purpose is served, for athletes who still want to
play, to retire before they get cut from the team: maintaining high-
average career stats doesn't seem like enough.


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 11:03 am
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"

"Ryan Cousineau" <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ff786971-7913-431b-9aae-6873c7c67513@i4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

:: The thing about sports is the time limits are hard and come quickly.
:: I'm not sure what purpose is served, for athletes who still want to
:: play, to retire before they get cut from the team: maintaining high-
:: average career stats doesn't seem like enough.

Dumbass -

Another guy who quit on top was Howie Long.

He said he didn't want to wait until it was too late because he'd seen it
happen to other guys and not only did they get dominated in games, they'd
get dominated every day in practice.

Howie said he didn't want to get dominated. He retired with one year left on
his contract.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 11:05 am
From: Frederick the Great


In article <i42grd$2g8$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
"Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemachine@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Frederick the Great" <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:rubrum-AB7B2C.11511812082010@news.albasani.net...
> : In article <rOqdnUF2fKqCgP7RnZ2dnUVZ_o6dnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> : "Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
> :
> : > And he'll be 39 years old. I think the one thing we can all agree upon
> is
> : > that Lance proved that it's easy to ride "a Tour too far."
> :
> : The only way a champion athlete can retire
> : from the sport mentally is to get thoroughly beaten down.
> : It is the only thing he knows as an athlete;
> : the only thing that will get through the defenses.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> That's not true. There are exceptions.
>
> Sandy Koufax quit on top. So did Jim Brown and Barry Sanders.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

So did Joe DiMaggio. He retired early so he could get
at the money various "restauranteurs" had given him to
show up at their places. NTTIAWWT.

--
Old Fritz

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Question about drug-related prosecutions
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/d96f6ac541ef20dc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 10:19 am
From: Dumbass


Has anyone ever been convicted of perjury merely for lying about the
use of performance enhancing drugs under oath?

If no, then has anyone even been indicted merely for lying about it
under oath?

Wiki reports that Marion Jones was convicted of pejury in part due to
lying about using steroids but also for lying about an actual illegal
activity not connected with sports cheating.


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 11:01 am
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"

"Dumbass" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a40be84b-6f36-4c08-a749-1c5bdb64bb89@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
: Has anyone ever been convicted of perjury merely for lying about the
: use of performance enhancing drugs under oath?
:
: If no, then has anyone even been indicted merely for lying about it
: under oath?
:
: Wiki reports that Marion Jones was convicted of pejury in part due to
: lying about using steroids but also for lying about an actual illegal
: activity not connected with sports cheating.

Dumbass -

I don't think so.

The main reason is sports rules violations are supposed to be dealt with by
sports governing bodies, not the legal system.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

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