Tuesday, August 24, 2010

[socialactionfoundationforequity:5120 '3 visited UT to plan kidnapping - Chandigarh

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'3 visited UT to plan kidnapping - Chandigarh
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh/3-visited-UT-to-plan-kidnapping/articleshow/6404616.cms

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5120 When Tilak planned India's Independence with Sayajirao - Vadodara

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When Tilak planned India's Independence with Sayajirao - Vadodara
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/vadodara/When-Tilak-planned-Indias-Independence-with-Sayajirao-/articleshow/6423044.cms

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 Three bombings kill 36 in Pakistan

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Three bombings kill 36 in Pakistan
http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20100823/876/twl-three-bombings-kill-36-in-pakistan.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 Another succumbs in Valley, toll now 62

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Another succumbs in Valley, toll now 62
http://in.news.yahoo.com/48/20100824/804/tnl-another-succumbs-in-valley-toll-now6.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 Priyan all set to get into ''action'' mode with ''Bullet Train''

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Priyan all set to get into ''action'' mode with ''Bullet Train''
http://in.news.yahoo.com/20/20100824/1416/tnl-priyan-all-set-to-get-into-action-mo.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 Tiger Woods and wife divorce after sex scandal

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Tiger Woods and wife divorce after sex scandal
http://in.news.yahoo.com/137/20100824/375/tsp-tiger-woods-and-wife-divorce-after-s.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 ISI chief met Lakhvi in jail after 26/11: Headley to NIA

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ISI chief met Lakhvi in jail after 26/11: Headley to NIA
http://news.in.msn.com/national/article.aspx?cp-documentid=4295062&page=0

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 Govt ready to accept more changes in Nuclear bill

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Govt ready to accept more changes in Nuclear bill
http://news.in.msn.com/national/article.aspx?cp-documentid=4298626&page=0

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 Fan and prisoner of mom's politics

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Fan and prisoner of mom's politics
http://news.in.msn.com/national/article.aspx?cp-documentid=4298476&page=0

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 All 14 on board feared dead in Nepal plane crash

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All 14 on board feared dead in Nepal plane crash
http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20100824/876/twl-all-14-on-board-feared-dead-in-nepal_1.html

Bad weather, Pilot error. difficult terrain, bad local airports and
technical failures are held to be the main causes of this Air
Disaster......

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 Somali gunmen storm Mogadishu hotel, gunfire heard

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Somali gunmen storm Mogadishu hotel, gunfire heard
http://in.news.yahoo.com/137/20100824/362/twl-somali-gunmen-storm-mogadishu-hotel.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 Corporate Social Responsibility evolved in the early 20th century

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Corporate Social Responsibility evolved in the early 20th century
http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20100824/888/twl-corporate-social-responsibility-evol.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 Greek orthodox archdiocese demands church be rebuilt near 9/11 site

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Greek orthodox archdiocese demands church be rebuilt near 9/11 site
http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20100824/364/twl-greek-orthodox-archdiocese-demands-c_1.html

St. Nichloas Church, the only house of worship destroyed on 9/11 by
the terroists at the foot of the World Trade Centre.

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 Australian guard held taking snaps up women's skirts

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Australian guard held taking snaps up women's skirts
http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20100824/902/twl-australian-guard-held-taking-snaps-u.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 More than 150 women raped in Congolese village, says UN

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More than 150 women raped in Congolese village, says UN
http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20100824/902/twl-more-than-150-women-raped-in-congole.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 Training, recruitment of officers for Afghan army,police won't be completed before Oct.2011: US Gen.

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Training, recruitment of officers for Afghan army,police won't be
completed before Oct.2011: US Gen.
http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20100824/364/twl-training-recruitment-of-officers-for_1.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 Miners' rescue will take months, says Chile

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Miners' rescue will take months, says Chile
http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20100824/890/twl-miners-rescue-will-take-months-says_1.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 Environment may make Pakistan more bellicose towards India: US report

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Environment may make Pakistan more bellicose towards India: US report
http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20100824/890/twl-environment-may-make-pakistan-more-b_1.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 Australian Sex Party does well

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Australian Sex Party does well
http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20100824/902/twl-australian-sex-party-does-well.html

ASP Policies include censorship regime, R & X ratings for computer
games, an end to internet filters, gay marriage and a national sex
education curriculum to prevent the sexualisation of children in
schools

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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Apt. for resale @ Bambolim

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ESTATES, PROPERTIES - FOR SALE
A new listing with title 2 BHK Apt. for resale @ Bambolim has just been submitted.

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 Van Gogh painting heist: Egyptian officials arrested

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Van Gogh painting heist: Egyptian officials arrested
http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20100824/896/twl-van-gogh-painting-heist-egyptian-off_1.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5100 No damage after Pacific Ocean quake off Mexico

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No damage after Pacific Ocean quake off Mexico
http://in.news.yahoo.com/137/20100824/762/twl-no-damage-after-pacific-ocean-quake_1.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5085 Chile secures lifeline to trapped miners, sends aid

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Chile secures lifeline to trapped miners, sends aid
http://in.news.yahoo.com/137/20100824/762/twl-chile-secures-lifeline-to-trapped-mi_1.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5085 Amarnath Yatra ends in J-K

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Amarnath Yatra ends in J-K
http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20100824/808/tnl-amarnath-yatra-ends-in-j-k.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5085 Foreign students tie Rakhi to slum children in Gujarat

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Foreign students tie Rakhi to slum children in Gujarat
http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20100824/824/tnl-foreign-students-tie-rakhi-to-slum-c.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5085 Kandhamal victims still face intimidation: People''s tribunal

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Kandhamal victims still face intimidation: People''s tribunal
http://in.news.yahoo.com/20/20100824/1416/tnl-kandhamal-victims-still-face-intimid_1.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5085 Britain wants to control immigration, evaluating student visa

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Britain wants to control immigration, evaluating student visa
http://in.news.yahoo.com/20/20100824/1416/tnl-britain-wants-to-control-immigration.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5085 Allow domestic firms to produce patented drugs: Ind Minister

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Allow domestic firms to produce patented drugs: Ind Minister
http://in.news.yahoo.com/20/20100824/1416/tnl-allow-domestic-firms-to-produce-pate_1.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5085 Exhibition showing Nazi-era Berlin reopened

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Exhibition showing Nazi-era Berlin reopened
http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20100824/884/twl-exhibition-showing-nazi-era-berlin-r.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5085 Somali gunmen storm hotel, 31 reported dead

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Somali gunmen storm hotel, 31 reported dead
http://in.news.yahoo.com/137/20100824/362/twl-somali-gunmen-storm-hotel-31-reporte.html

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5085 10 social networking blunders

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10 social networking blunders
http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/article/1:66d8c6ec5c0fa18d146a1e12e578b966:0483bb2634773ee28751eb02ac996baa/10-social-networking-blunders?usc=1

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5085 Offence registered as underground ZIOL fuel pipeline tapped illegally |

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Offence registered as underground ZIOL fuel pipeline tapped illegally
|
http://www.navhindtimes.in/goa-news/offence-registered-underground-ziol-fuel-pipeline-tapped-illegally

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5085 Panchayats to get Rs 90 cr | iGoa

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Panchayats to get Rs 90 cr | iGoa
http://www.navhindtimes.in/goa-news/panchayats-get-rs-90-cr

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5085 Tentacles of Terror |

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Tentacles of Terror
http://www.navhindtimes.in/opinion/tentacles-terror

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5085 Sharma rules out lifting export ban on wheat, rice

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Sharma rules out lifting export ban on wheat, rice
http://www.navhindtimes.in/business/sharma-rules-out-lifting-export-ban-wheat-rice

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5085 New maritime policy likely in a month

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New maritime policy likely in a month
http://www.navhindtimes.in/business/new-maritime-policy-likely-month

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5085 Active club managers should not be allowed to contest GFA elections: Armando

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Active club managers should not be allowed to contest GFA elections:
Armando
http://www.navhindtimes.in/sports/active-club-managers-should-not-be-allowed-contest-gfa-elections-armando

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5085 Konkani is the symbol of Goan identity: Antonio Morais

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Konkani is the symbol of Goan identity: Antonio Morais
http://www.navhindtimes.in/ilive/konkani-symbol-goan-identity-antonio-morais

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Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5085 World Goa Day celebrations

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World Goa Day celebrations
http://www.navhindtimes.in/iwatch/world-goa-day-celebrations

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5085 Pakistani cousin marriages in UK behind genetic disability baby birth boom

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Pakistani cousin marriages in UK behind genetic disability baby birth boom

London , Tue, 24 Aug 2010 ANI
 
London, Aug 24 (ANI): A study has found that more than 700 children are born with genetic diseases every year in the UK due to the prevalent cousin marriage system.
 
The research showed that the problem is worst among children born in Britain's Pakistani community, where more than half of marriages are between first cousins.
 
Children born from such unions suffer genetic disorders, and the medical risks include higher rates of infant mortality, birth defects, learning difficulties, blindness, hearing problems and metabolic disorders.
 
As adults these children are at an increased risk of miscarriage or infertility, while a third of children affected die before their fifth birthday.
 
The investigation by Channel 4's Dispatches programme found that even though more than 70 British studies have proved the risks, many people are still denying the dangers, and first cousin marriages continue to rise.
 
Ann Cryer, the former Labour MP for Keighley, suffered abuse for trying to highlight the problems.
 
"It's a public health issue and we deal with public health issues by raising awareness, by talking about subjects such as obesity, such as drug addiction, such as alcohol," the Telegraph quoted her as saying.
 
"But for some reason we're told that we mustn't talk about cousin marriages because this is a sensitive issue.
 
"I think it's absurd, we have to talk about it in order to find solutions," she added. (ANI)

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Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi
 
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rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

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rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Frank "Temperance" Krygowski declares open season for motorists on cyclists
who take a drink - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8c0f169ccadabfe4?hl=en
* Bouldering ?? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/10a0201d8847e879?hl=en
* return of the mcwhiner - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c7be9838e3bf2f68?hl=en
* How many lights do you see? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/934aa68e18b71bc5?hl=en
* rec.bicycles.drugs - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/b401f1e21485e5c1?hl=en
* Lance Armstrong - How Can We Prevent Doping In Pro Sports? - 4 messages, 4
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8ea99936e1707e4b?hl=en
* Coyle's Little Ergometer Problem - 6 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/380418983e175364?hl=en
* Non-Ashenden Critique & Response - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5b8918ff4df6776e?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frank "Temperance" Krygowski declares open season for motorists on
cyclists who take a drink
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8c0f169ccadabfe4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 12:18 am
From: "Beloved Fred No. 1"


Kevan Smith wrote:
> I would support that if the helmets came with two beer holders on the
> sides with a siphon along the chinstrap.

Dumbass,
Use a camelbak.


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 1:40 am
From: Tom Sherman °_°


On 8/23/2010 3:54 PM, André Jute wrote:
>[...]

TLDR

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bouldering ??
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/10a0201d8847e879?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 2:40 am
From: Davey Crockett


"A. Dumas" a écrit profondement:


| Just bloody gopher it already!


Go fuck yourself you ignoramt piece of shit

--
Davey Crockett

==============================================================================
TOPIC: return of the mcwhiner
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c7be9838e3bf2f68?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 2:43 am
From: "A. Dumas"


Ben Trovato wrote:
> Bettini would not have selected [McEwen] either:
> "Freire, Hushovd and Haussler will all be dangerous. Haussler has
> changed nationality and so Australia will build the team around him."
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bettinis-italian-world-championships-team-taking-shape

Haussler not selected either. Renshaw, not selected.


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 2:47 am
From: "A. Dumas"


A. Dumas wrote:
> Ben Trovato wrote:
>> Bettini would not have selected [McEwen] either:
>> "Freire, Hushovd and Haussler will all be dangerous. Haussler has
>> changed nationality and so Australia will build the team around him."
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bettinis-italian-world-championships-team-taking-shape
>>
>
> Haussler not selected either. Renshaw, not selected.

Porte not selected!


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 8:55 am
From: Ben Trovato


On Aug 24, 2:47 am, "A. Dumas" <alexan...@dumas.fr> wrote:
> A. Dumas wrote:
> > Ben Trovato wrote:
> >> Bettini would not have selected [McEwen] either:
> >> "Freire, Hushovd and Haussler will all be dangerous. Haussler has
> >> changed nationality and so Australia will build the team around him."
> >>http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bettinis-italian-world-championships-...
>
> > Haussler not selected either. Renshaw, not selected.
>
> Porte not selected!

Porte selected for the TT.
Bettini already falling off the pace.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How many lights do you see?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/934aa68e18b71bc5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 5:55 am
From: --D-y


On Aug 24, 1:16 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> "B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>
> news:5cKdnX4Z5NcfBOzRnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 8/22/2010 2:45 PM, Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
> >> On Aug 21, 5:07 pm, Anton Berlin<truth_88...@yahoo.com>  wrote:
> >>> That single testicle lodged in your throat must be shutting off
> >>> oxygen
> >>> to your brain.
>
> >>>http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden
>
> >> You know, there's a lot of BS out there defending LANCE,
> >> and Ashenden actually shows reasonableness in a few places,
> >> but when the interviewer goes from questioning LANCE's
> >> famous weight loss, to suggesting that LANCE lies about
> >> his _height_ :
>
> >>     The other thing that surprised me is this idea of cancer
> >>    taking away 15 pounds, it's another one of these publicly
> >>    held beliefs that became so ingrained, and it was surprising
> >>    to find that he didn't lose any weight post cancer. And not only
> >>    that, he's listed as 5' 9", 5' 10", but we know from speaking to
> >>    his teammates he's more like 5' 5", 5' 6".
>
> >> then I begin to think the interviewer has an agenda.
>
> >> Fredmaster Ben
>
> > So tell us Fred, exactly how tall is the Uniballer? And tell us his
> > weight as well.  The weight loss argument was show for the garbage of
> > liars that it is.
>
> Where have I heard this before? Oh, right, here-http://videosift.com/video/How-many-lights-do-you-see-Captain-Great-P...
>
> If you say it often enough (Lance is 5'5"), do you really believe it
> will become true?
>
> This is just too bizarre to be real. If someone's belief in the
> legitimacy of the "bring down Lance, it's all a conspiracy" camp is
> dependent upon believing the testimony of people who think they're
> helping their cause by claiming they know that lance is possibly as
> short as 5'5, maybe 5'6 on a good-posture day... it just doesn't make
> sense. You would think those trying to bring down Lance would do
> everything possible to verify facts and seal off the loose cannons that
> erode credibility through their attempts to embellish and manufacture
> "facts" that put Lance in a negative light.
>
> The weight issue may have merit. But when the same people are talking
> about his height, it calls everything into question.

There is a difference between prosecution and persecution <g>.

Assenden didn't correct Shen on the point of Armstrong's height. Just
kinda let that one slide, didn't he?
While painting Coyle with shit (along with some fine company here)
because he accepted data by hearsay or "testimony", if you want.

This is a nasty rhetorical attack on Armstrong and Coyle, an attempt
to undermine any credibility they might have.

Noting again, even Ashenden says he knows it is a common practice, and
tactical necessity, for athletes to obfuscate "personal data".

Also, one more time: I've stood toe-to-toe with Lance Armstrong. He
had flat sandals on; I had some kind of running shoes on. IOW, I
probably had the sole height advantage. I'm 5' 9", and maybe still 5'
9- 1/2". He's a good inch, or more, taller than I am.

Didn't I comment earlier that, by word of mouth, Lance had been tested
at the OTC in Colorado Springs? When Ashenden says "no one knew
anything" (my words) IRT Lance's height, weight, whatever, where is
the due diligence in his "investigation"?

This is one of those deals where yes, there is an agenda and a de
facto "conspiracy" to bring Lance down.

There is some evidence that Lance may have doped. But when Ashenden
lets what amounts to personal attack ("Hey everybody: not only does
Lance lie, but he's a short little fucker, too!") fly undisturbed, and
that where he knows this crap is going to be published, it doesn't do
his own credibility any good here. Because he does have some of the
smear artist thing going for him.

Sort of like that SOB Dick Pound-- "We knew they were doping". I mean,
you can think you know what they "were doing", but making that sort of
public statement really stinks.
Plus threatening Marion Jones after she rightfully called WADA a
"kangaroo court"-- in essence, saying "She'd better watch out or we'll
take all her medals away!"
If Pound is such a wonderful agent for truth and goodness, why wasn't
he already taking all her medals away? IOW, is this all about
"justice" or personal vendettas?
Novitsky v. Barry Bonds, for another example. Seizing evidence clearly
outside the scope of a search warrant, bragging about a "book deal",
and then denying it?

Wow. Lies and innuendo? Plenty enough to go around.

Bad cops, bad cops
Whatcha gonna do?
Whatcha gonna do
When they come for YOU?
--D-y


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 9:03 am
From: "Mark J."


On 8/23/2010 11:16 PM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> "B. Lafferty"<bl@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:5cKdnX4Z5NcfBOzRnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> On 8/22/2010 2:45 PM, Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
>>> On Aug 21, 5:07 pm, Anton Berlin<truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> That single testicle lodged in your throat must be shutting off
>>>> oxygen
>>>> to your brain.
>>>>
>>>> http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden
>>>
>>> You know, there's a lot of BS out there defending LANCE,
>>> and Ashenden actually shows reasonableness in a few places,
>>> but when the interviewer goes from questioning LANCE's
>>> famous weight loss, to suggesting that LANCE lies about
>>> his _height_ :
>>>
>>> The other thing that surprised me is this idea of cancer
>>> taking away 15 pounds, it's another one of these publicly
>>> held beliefs that became so ingrained, and it was surprising
>>> to find that he didn't lose any weight post cancer. And not only
>>> that, he's listed as 5' 9", 5' 10", but we know from speaking to
>>> his teammates he's more like 5' 5", 5' 6".
>>>
>>> then I begin to think the interviewer has an agenda.
>>>
>>> Fredmaster Ben
>>
>> So tell us Fred, exactly how tall is the Uniballer? And tell us his
>> weight as well. The weight loss argument was show for the garbage of
>> liars that it is.
>
> Where have I heard this before? Oh, right, here-
> http://videosift.com/video/How-many-lights-do-you-see-Captain-Great-Picard-Moment

Wow, you get serious geek cred for that reference. I'm not sure if I
should be proud or embarrassed that I recognized your subject header
right away.

yes, the Big Lie is making the rounds in lots of fora these days.

Mark J.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: rec.bicycles.drugs
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/b401f1e21485e5c1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 6:13 am
From: "Gark ."


On Aug 23, 2:52 pm, Richard Kaufman <rj_kauf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Rename this newsgroup, or start a new one dedicated to drugs in
> cycling?

Lets talk about how lost in the noise cycling would be if all sports
complied with the WADA standards (and were dumb enough to air their
laundry about it in the media).


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 7:12 am
From: Anton Berlin


On Aug 23, 2:52 pm, Richard Kaufman <rj_kauf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Rename this newsgroup, or start a new one dedicated to drugs in
> cycling?

Drugs are cycling - cycling is drugs - you can't separate these two

There can't be a relevant honest discussion of bicycle racing without
discussing the drugs and doping practices. To even think that you
could is childish.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 8:07 am
From: Fred Flintstein


On 8/24/2010 9:12 AM, Anton Berlin wrote:
> On Aug 23, 2:52 pm, Richard Kaufman<rj_kauf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Rename this newsgroup, or start a new one dedicated to drugs in
>> cycling?
>
> Drugs are cycling - cycling is drugs - you can't separate these two
>
> There can't be a relevant honest discussion of bicycle racing without
> discussing the drugs and doping practices. To even think that you
> could is childish.
>

The footballers manage it just fine.

Fred Flintstein


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 8:23 am
From: Fred Flintstein


On 8/23/2010 2:52 PM, Richard Kaufman wrote:
> Rename this newsgroup, or start a new one dedicated to drugs in
> cycling?

If this really bothers anyone, a simple killfile with just
a few names in it makes much of this go away. It'd make it
all go away if people would just stop arguing with people
that are clearly mentally ill.

Fred Flintstein

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lance Armstrong - How Can We Prevent Doping In Pro Sports?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8ea99936e1707e4b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 7:30 am
From: Anton Berlin


On Aug 22, 7:30 pm, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 22, 4:50 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 22, 9:20 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > At that point - Lance had only one self serving hypocritical interest
> > > (as always) --- the reality that only a doper could beat his record of
> > > 7 consecutive dope-fueled wins.
>
> > I'm interested in your view - when Lance is exposed as a doper, how do
> > you see that pro cycling will benefit? Do you think doping will stop?
> > Do you think that the riders who will take over his titles are
> > "clean"? Do you think that sponsors will flock to the sport? What
> > makes you so excited and anxious to see him caught?
>
> > Brad Anders
>
> I can't speak for the esteemed Mr. Berlin, but I will interject that
> maybe people are excited to see LA get caught for the same reasons
> they were excited to see Bernie Madoff get caught. For perpetrating a
> gigantic fraud on the unwitting masses.
>
> But to speak for Mr. Berlin, if I may be so bold - the rest of your
> Lance ball-gargling points are well taken.

I agree to let DA74 speak for me on this issue.


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 8:56 am
From: "Mark J."


On 8/23/2010 9:51 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
> On Aug 23, 10:23 am, mtb Dad<listerfar...@telus.net> wrote:
>> On Aug 22, 4:50 pm, Brad Anders<pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Aug 22, 9:20 am, Anton Berlin<truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> At that point - Lance had only one self serving hypocritical interest
>>>> (as always) --- the reality that only a doper could beat his record of
>>>> 7 consecutive dope-fueled wins.
>>
>>> I'm interested in your view - when Lance is exposed as a doper, how do
>>> you see that pro cycling will benefit? Do you think doping will stop?
>>> Do you think that the riders who will take over his titles are
>>> "clean"? Do you think that sponsors will flock to the sport? What
>>> makes you so excited and anxious to see him caught?
>>
>>> Brad Anders
>>
>> Assuming you're serious, I think the main thing that will happen is
>> the management of sports won't be able to look the other way in the
>> face of doping.
>
> IMO, sports managers haven't been looking the other way with regard to
> doping, especially in cycling. There's been a rather massive effort to
> develop new tests and methods (e.g. EPO urine and blood testing, blood
> passport, exogenous testosterone testing, Ashenden's blood doping
> test, etc.), and extensive in and out of competition testing (e.g. LA
> tested OOC dozens of times since his return). Multiple agencies (e.g.
> IOC, WADA) watch over the methods and protocols used, and draconian
> penalties (e.g. lifetime bans) have been implemented and enforced.
> High profile cases (e.g. BALCO) have resulted in jail sentences.
>
> Yet, in spite of these efforts, doping appears to be commonplace. Why?
> Because when it is done by reasonably smart people (and even some
> fairly dumb ones), it's effective, fairly safe, and essentially
> undetectable.
>
> I don't see how nailing Lance for doping cases nearly a decade old is
> going to change anything.
>
>> Cycling, and many other sports did less than the bare
>> minimum to enforce their rules.
>
> I don't agree. Cycling has been one of the more aggressive sports in
> terms of testing and penalties against dopers.
>
>> If we're lucky, we will have
>> legislation that provides for mandatory third party monitoring and
>> enforcement and serious penalties for the managers, not just the
>> athletes.
>
> IMO, pro sports are for entertainment. Personally, I don't want the
> drug and food agencies of the US, as well as local and federal law
> enforcement agencies to be wasting time and money trying to police
> drug use in sports. There are much bigger fish to fry.
>
>> Then, in the long run, we can go back to the myth-making
>> and heros without the spectre of another 30 dead guys from the next
>> doping technology before sport and society react.
>
> What about the mythical "30 dead guys"? A few Dutch riders<may> have
> died from EPO use in the early '90's. With the level of hematocrit
> monitoring that goes on today, it's extremely unlikely that anyone
> could approach those levels. As for mythical performances, doping has
> been in sport for as long as sport has been around. Many of those
> performances were enhanced to begin with.
>
>> No the sport won't
>> die, and no it won't thrive just because of enforcement. But it might
>> avoid the worst of the doping decided performances and harm to
>> athletes.
>
> Actually, I think that we're already operating in a system where the
> "worst of the doping decided performances" have been eliminated, and<
> that the risk of harm to the athletes is minimal. Current doping tests
> are effective at nabbing those who stray outside of safe limits that
> can be accurately monitored.
>
> Brad Anders

Mr. Anders, Mr. Anders, weren't you informed? The /voice of reason/ has
no place in this newsgroup!

Now back to our regular program of drug-investigation sensationalism.

</irony> and thanks for saying it so well.

Mark J.


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 9:04 am
From: Brad Anders


On Aug 22, 5:30 pm, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 22, 4:50 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 22, 9:20 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > At that point - Lance had only one self serving hypocritical interest
> > > (as always) --- the reality that only a doper could beat his record of
> > > 7 consecutive dope-fueled wins.
>
> > I'm interested in your view - when Lance is exposed as a doper, how do
> > you see that pro cycling will benefit? Do you think doping will stop?
> > Do you think that the riders who will take over his titles are
> > "clean"? Do you think that sponsors will flock to the sport? What
> > makes you so excited and anxious to see him caught?
>
> > Brad Anders
>
> I can't speak for the esteemed Mr. Berlin, but I will interject that
> maybe people are excited to see LA get caught for the same reasons
> they were excited to see Bernie Madoff get caught. For perpetrating a
> gigantic fraud on the unwitting masses.

Except that Madoff was operating illegally, when his competitors
weren't. In Lance's case, everyone in the top 20 on GC at the TdF was
doing the same or worse than he was. The "fraud" in question wasn't
confined to Lance, it covers the whole sport. Not a fair analogy.

Brad Anders


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 10:05 am
From: Zeno


On Aug 22, 6:30 pm, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Brad Anders
>
> I can't speak for the esteemed Mr. Berlin, but I will interject that
> maybe people are excited to see LA get caught for the same reasons
> they were excited to see Bernie Madoff get caught. For perpetrating a
> gigantic fraud on the unwitting masses.
>

Major League Baseball has been a gigantic fraud perpetuated by both
the league and the Players Association for many years -- a conspiracy
if there ever was one. Relatively speaking, LA would be a little tiny
fraud. Everybody knew about the speed & the 'roids in baseball and did
absolutely nothing about it, while promoting wunderkinds like McGuire,
Bonds & Sosa as successors to the Babe. They constantly and publicly
denied that there was a drug problem when they knew better. They have
a long list of dopers who failed the test. If you think LA is a fraud,
what about McGuire bringing Maris's family to the park to watch him
break the home run record while he was juiced?

The Feds efforts against MLB have been a dog and pony show and a fig
leaf. In comparison, prosecuting Armstrong (or any cyclist for that
matter) is a joke. When was the last time a MLB or NFL locker room,
hotel or bus was locked down & searched for drugs? Cycling has been
doing serious testing and busting dopers since the 60s, while MLB and
the NFL were riding a wave of greenies & roids -- but Cycling has no
pull in Congress. Nobody should get a pass, including LA, but this is
selective prosecution of the worst kind and total hypocrisy on the
part of the Feds.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Coyle's Little Ergometer Problem
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/380418983e175364?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 8:40 am
From: BLafferty


"Point 3: Were all test performed on the same ergometer? All the data
presented on Armstrong in this manuscript (4) were indeed collected from
the "same" ergometer (i.e., only one unit used). Monark did indeed
manufacture an ergometer (819) in the 1980s hat possessed electronics
that integrated cadence and force in order to hold power constant. I
hope this addresses the suspicions. For what it is worth, the electronic
circuitry of our 819 ergometer became nonrepairable as did our system
for measuring indirect calorimetry. However, Armstrong is still going
strong, albeit with a few repairs."---Coyle responding to first letter
to journal editor.

"Then interestingly, the paper itself became involved in an arbitration
hearing where I was asked to serve as an expert witness and interpret
this paper for the hearing. In that process I did some background
checking to verify to myself what was happening and could this data be
relied on. *And I was very surprised when we were given a photograph
showing Lance Armstrong in the first test session on an ergometer that
was definitely not the ergometer that Coyle claims he tested him
on."*--Ashenden Interview

------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps Dr. Coggan can get us a copy from his friend and multiple
co-author of the photo Ashenden is referring to. Thanks, Andy.


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 9:38 am
From: Andy Coggan


On Aug 24, 10:40 am, BLafferty <Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> "Point 3: Were all test performed on the same ergometer? All the data
> presented on Armstrong in this manuscript (4) were indeed collected from
> the "same" ergometer (i.e., only one unit used). Monark did indeed
> manufacture an ergometer (819) in the 1980s hat possessed electronics
> that integrated cadence and force in order to hold power constant. I
> hope this addresses the suspicions. For what it is worth, the electronic
> circuitry of our 819 ergometer became nonrepairable as did our system
> for measuring indirect calorimetry. However, Armstrong is still going
> strong, albeit with a few repairs."---Coyle responding to first letter
> to journal editor.
>
> "Then interestingly, the paper itself became involved in an arbitration
> hearing where I was asked to serve as an expert witness and interpret
> this paper for the hearing. In that process I did some background
> checking to verify to myself what was happening and could this data be
> relied on. *And I was very surprised when we were given a photograph
> showing Lance Armstrong in the first test session on an ergometer that
> was definitely not the ergometer that Coyle claims he tested him
> on."*--Ashenden Interview
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Perhaps Dr. Coggan can get us a copy from his friend and multiple
> co-author of the photo Ashenden is referring to. Thanks, Andy.

I can't - in fact, I can't even verify the existence of said photo, as
I have never seen it, and neither has anybody else I know.

OTOH, I can verify the existence of the Monark 819E ergometer that
Coyle said was used to collect the data presented in the paper, since
as I indicated previously I'm the one who got it out of mothballs and
up-and-running again to use in my dissertation.

Andy Coggan


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 9:43 am
From: BLafferty


On 8/24/2010 12:38 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:
> On Aug 24, 10:40 am, BLafferty<Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> "Point 3: Were all test performed on the same ergometer? All the data
>> presented on Armstrong in this manuscript (4) were indeed collected from
>> the "same" ergometer (i.e., only one unit used). Monark did indeed
>> manufacture an ergometer (819) in the 1980s hat possessed electronics
>> that integrated cadence and force in order to hold power constant. I
>> hope this addresses the suspicions. For what it is worth, the electronic
>> circuitry of our 819 ergometer became nonrepairable as did our system
>> for measuring indirect calorimetry. However, Armstrong is still going
>> strong, albeit with a few repairs."---Coyle responding to first letter
>> to journal editor.
>>
>> "Then interestingly, the paper itself became involved in an arbitration
>> hearing where I was asked to serve as an expert witness and interpret
>> this paper for the hearing. In that process I did some background
>> checking to verify to myself what was happening and could this data be
>> relied on. *And I was very surprised when we were given a photograph
>> showing Lance Armstrong in the first test session on an ergometer that
>> was definitely not the ergometer that Coyle claims he tested him
>> on."*--Ashenden Interview
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Perhaps Dr. Coggan can get us a copy from his friend and multiple
>> co-author of the photo Ashenden is referring to. Thanks, Andy.
>
> I can't - in fact, I can't even verify the existence of said photo, as
> I have never seen it, and neither has anybody else I know.
>
> OTOH, I can verify the existence of the Monark 819E ergometer that
> Coyle said was used to collect the data presented in the paper, since
> as I indicated previously I'm the one who got it out of mothballs and
> up-and-running again to use in my dissertation.
>
> Andy Coggan

Ask Eddy to give you a copy of the photo he produced at the SAC
arbitration hearing. You wouldn't be asserting that Ashenden would lie
about the photo, would you?

Were you present for all of Armstron'gs alleged Monarch rides?


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 9:54 am
From: Andy Coggan


On Aug 24, 11:43 am, BLafferty <Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 8/24/2010 12:38 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 24, 10:40 am, BLafferty<Br...@nowhere.com>  wrote:
> >> "Point 3: Were all test performed on the same ergometer? All the data
> >> presented on Armstrong in this manuscript (4) were indeed collected from
> >> the "same" ergometer (i.e., only one unit used). Monark did indeed
> >> manufacture an ergometer (819) in the 1980s hat possessed electronics
> >> that integrated cadence and force in order to hold power constant. I
> >> hope this addresses the suspicions. For what it is worth, the electronic
> >> circuitry of our 819 ergometer became nonrepairable as did our system
> >> for measuring indirect calorimetry. However, Armstrong is still going
> >> strong, albeit with a few repairs."---Coyle responding to first letter
> >> to journal editor.
>
> >> "Then interestingly, the paper itself became involved in an arbitration
> >> hearing where I was asked to serve as an expert witness and interpret
> >> this paper for the hearing. In that process I did some background
> >> checking to verify to myself what was happening and could this data be
> >> relied on. *And I was very surprised when we were given a photograph
> >> showing Lance Armstrong in the first test session on an ergometer that
> >> was definitely not the ergometer that Coyle claims he tested him
> >> on."*--Ashenden Interview
>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >> Perhaps Dr. Coggan can get us a copy from his friend and multiple
> >> co-author of the photo Ashenden is referring to. Thanks, Andy.
>
> > I can't - in fact, I can't even verify the existence of said photo, as
> > I have never seen it, and neither has anybody else I know.
>
> > OTOH, I can verify the existence of the Monark 819E ergometer that
> > Coyle said was used to collect the data presented in the paper, since
> > as I indicated previously I'm the one who got it out of mothballs and
> > up-and-running again to use in my dissertation.
>
> > Andy Coggan
>
> Ask Eddy to give you a copy of the photo he produced at the SAC
> arbitration hearing. You wouldn't be asserting that Ashenden would lie
> about the photo, would you?

No, I'm saying that I haven't seen it, nobody I know has described
seeing it, and I can't tell you whether or not it even exists.

As for Ashenden's comments, it is possible that he simply didn't
recognize the ergometer in whatever picture he saw, as it doesn't look
quite like a standard Monark - in fact, Ashenden et al. weren't even
aware that such an ergometer had ever been manufactured.

> Were you present for all of Armstron'gs alleged Monarch rides?

I left Austin before Armstrong was ever tested there, and have never
met him (although I did once pass within 50 ft of Armstrong and Eddy
Merckx after they did the Tour de Gruene TTT together the year
Armstrong was diagnosed with cancer).

Andy Coggan


== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 10:02 am
From: BLafferty


On 8/24/2010 12:54 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:
> On Aug 24, 11:43 am, BLafferty<Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On 8/24/2010 12:38 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 24, 10:40 am, BLafferty<Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> "Point 3: Were all test performed on the same ergometer? All the data
>>>> presented on Armstrong in this manuscript (4) were indeed collected from
>>>> the "same" ergometer (i.e., only one unit used). Monark did indeed
>>>> manufacture an ergometer (819) in the 1980s hat possessed electronics
>>>> that integrated cadence and force in order to hold power constant. I
>>>> hope this addresses the suspicions. For what it is worth, the electronic
>>>> circuitry of our 819 ergometer became nonrepairable as did our system
>>>> for measuring indirect calorimetry. However, Armstrong is still going
>>>> strong, albeit with a few repairs."---Coyle responding to first letter
>>>> to journal editor.
>>
>>>> "Then interestingly, the paper itself became involved in an arbitration
>>>> hearing where I was asked to serve as an expert witness and interpret
>>>> this paper for the hearing. In that process I did some background
>>>> checking to verify to myself what was happening and could this data be
>>>> relied on. *And I was very surprised when we were given a photograph
>>>> showing Lance Armstrong in the first test session on an ergometer that
>>>> was definitely not the ergometer that Coyle claims he tested him
>>>> on."*--Ashenden Interview
>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>>> Perhaps Dr. Coggan can get us a copy from his friend and multiple
>>>> co-author of the photo Ashenden is referring to. Thanks, Andy.
>>
>>> I can't - in fact, I can't even verify the existence of said photo, as
>>> I have never seen it, and neither has anybody else I know.
>>
>>> OTOH, I can verify the existence of the Monark 819E ergometer that
>>> Coyle said was used to collect the data presented in the paper, since
>>> as I indicated previously I'm the one who got it out of mothballs and
>>> up-and-running again to use in my dissertation.
>>
>>> Andy Coggan
>>
>> Ask Eddy to give you a copy of the photo he produced at the SAC
>> arbitration hearing. You wouldn't be asserting that Ashenden would lie
>> about the photo, would you?
>
> No, I'm saying that I haven't seen it, nobody I know has described
> seeing it, and I can't tell you whether or not it even exists.
>
> As for Ashenden's comments, it is possible that he simply didn't
> recognize the ergometer in whatever picture he saw, as it doesn't look
> quite like a standard Monark - in fact, Ashenden et al. weren't even
> aware that such an ergometer had ever been manufactured.
>
>> Were you present for all of Armstron'gs alleged Monarch rides?
>
> I left Austin before Armstrong was ever tested there, and have never
> met him (although I did once pass within 50 ft of Armstrong and Eddy
> Merckx after they did the Tour de Gruene TTT together the year
> Armstrong was diagnosed with cancer).
>
> Andy Coggan

Ask your buddy Eddy for a copy of the photo and get back to us--if he
hasn't lost it.


== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 10:04 am
From: Andy Coggan


On Aug 24, 12:02 pm, BLafferty <Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 8/24/2010 12:54 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 24, 11:43 am, BLafferty<Br...@nowhere.com>  wrote:
> >> On 8/24/2010 12:38 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:
>
> >>> On Aug 24, 10:40 am, BLafferty<Br...@nowhere.com>    wrote:
> >>>> "Point 3: Were all test performed on the same ergometer? All the data
> >>>> presented on Armstrong in this manuscript (4) were indeed collected from
> >>>> the "same" ergometer (i.e., only one unit used). Monark did indeed
> >>>> manufacture an ergometer (819) in the 1980s hat possessed electronics
> >>>> that integrated cadence and force in order to hold power constant. I
> >>>> hope this addresses the suspicions. For what it is worth, the electronic
> >>>> circuitry of our 819 ergometer became nonrepairable as did our system
> >>>> for measuring indirect calorimetry. However, Armstrong is still going
> >>>> strong, albeit with a few repairs."---Coyle responding to first letter
> >>>> to journal editor.
>
> >>>> "Then interestingly, the paper itself became involved in an arbitration
> >>>> hearing where I was asked to serve as an expert witness and interpret
> >>>> this paper for the hearing. In that process I did some background
> >>>> checking to verify to myself what was happening and could this data be
> >>>> relied on. *And I was very surprised when we were given a photograph
> >>>> showing Lance Armstrong in the first test session on an ergometer that
> >>>> was definitely not the ergometer that Coyle claims he tested him
> >>>> on."*--Ashenden Interview
>
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >>>> Perhaps Dr. Coggan can get us a copy from his friend and multiple
> >>>> co-author of the photo Ashenden is referring to. Thanks, Andy.
>
> >>> I can't - in fact, I can't even verify the existence of said photo, as
> >>> I have never seen it, and neither has anybody else I know.
>
> >>> OTOH, I can verify the existence of the Monark 819E ergometer that
> >>> Coyle said was used to collect the data presented in the paper, since
> >>> as I indicated previously I'm the one who got it out of mothballs and
> >>> up-and-running again to use in my dissertation.
>
> >>> Andy Coggan
>
> >> Ask Eddy to give you a copy of the photo he produced at the SAC
> >> arbitration hearing. You wouldn't be asserting that Ashenden would lie
> >> about the photo, would you?
>
> > No, I'm saying that I haven't seen it, nobody I know has described
> > seeing it, and I can't tell you whether or not it even exists.
>
> > As for Ashenden's comments, it is possible that he simply didn't
> > recognize the ergometer in whatever picture he saw, as it doesn't look
> > quite like a standard Monark - in fact, Ashenden et al. weren't even
> > aware that such an ergometer had ever been manufactured.
>
> >> Were you present for all of Armstron'gs alleged Monarch rides?
>
> > I left Austin before Armstrong was ever tested there, and have never
> > met him (although I did once pass within 50 ft of Armstrong and Eddy
> > Merckx after they did the Tour de Gruene TTT together the year
> > Armstrong was diagnosed with cancer).
>
> > Andy Coggan
>
> Ask your buddy Eddy for a copy of the photo and get back to us--if he
> hasn't lost it.

I wasn't aware he was the one who came up with a photo - I thought
that was supposed to be the graduate-students-in-hiding?

Is the SCA testimony on line anywhere? If so, can you point me to
where this photo is discussed?

Andy Coggan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Non-Ashenden Critique & Response
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5b8918ff4df6776e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 8:47 am
From: BLafferty


Department of Sportmedizin
Medizinische Universitaetsklinik Freiburg
79106 Freiburg, Germany
e-mail: olaf@msm1.ukl.uni-freiburg.de

ABSTRACT

This case describes the physiological maturation from ages 21 to 28 yr
of the bicyclist who has now become the six-time consecutive Grand
Champion of the Tour de France, at ages 27–32 yr. Maximal oxygen uptake
(O2max) in the trained state remained at ~6 l/min, lean body weight
remained at ~70 kg, and maximal heart rate declined from 207 to 200
beats/min. Blood lactate threshold was typical of competitive cyclists
in that it occurred at 76–85% O2max, yet maximal blood lactate
concentration was remarkably low in the trained state. It appears that
an 8% improvement in muscular efficiency and thus power production when
cycling at a given oxygen uptake (O2) is the characteristic that
improved most as this athlete matured from ages 21 to 28 yr. It is
noteworthy that at age 25 yr, this champion developed advanced cancer,
requiring surgeries and chemotherapy. During the months leading up to
each of his Tour de France victories, he reduced body weight and body
fat by 4–7 kg (i.e., ~7%). Therefore, over the 7-yr period, an
improvement in muscular efficiency and reduced body fat contributed
equally to a remarkable 18% improvement in his steady-state power per
kilogram body weight when cycling at a given O2 (e.g., 5 l/min). It is
hypothesized that the improved muscular efficiency probably reflects
changes in muscle myosin type stimulated from years of training
intensely for 3–6 h on most days.

Scientific considerations for physiological evaluations of elite athletes

To the Editor: Elite athletes are valuable study objects for exercise
physiology: successful sportsmen offer unique insight into the extreme
adaptation of the human organism to certain types of exercise and
illustrate the amazing adaptation capacity of human physiology (9).
Because of the unique characteristics of the study subjects, sample
sizes in these investigations are usually low. Even case reports, such
as in the article written by Dr. Coyle (1), can therefore be a valuable
contribution to the scientific knowledge in this field.

Nevertheless, such studies should respect the basic principles of
scientific investigations. We feel that the investigation presented by
Dr. Coyle has serious limitations in this context.

Experimental design. The aim of the study was, according to the
author, to report "the physiological changes that occur in an individual
bicycle racer during a 7-yr period" and thereby illustrate "the extreme
to which the human can adapt to endurance training." Unfortunately, the
data presented in the manuscript do not contain enough physiological
information of the athlete in question (Lance Armstrong) to draw a
picture sufficient to illustrate his physiological profile and the
associated adaptations over 7 yr: in fact, no testing was performed in
immediate connection with his Tour de France wins. It can be assumed
that his physiological performance at that moment was much higher than
the ones measured and described by the manuscript. The performance data
reported in the manuscript are common to many elite cyclists (4, 5),
none of whom matches the wins of Armstrong. Furthermore, the exercise
tests outside the cancer period date from the months of January,
November, and September; these are periods where professional cyclists,
who target peak form for races in July, have barely the same condition
as during their peak season. Therefore, all speculations in the
manuscript on potential data during his Tour de France wins are not
supported by any of the presented test results. To display a complete
physiological profile of the athlete and to draw the present
conclusions, at least some data from peak season testing should have
been included. Interestingly, no data from the years of best performance
of the athlete are presented: during the period from 2000–2005,
Armstrong won five consecutive Tours de France; unfortunately, no
exercise test seems to have been conducted during that time, which is
rather surprising for an athlete of Armstrong's caliber.

Methods. To evaluate exercise performance and draw valid conclusions,
it is essential to report data on the reliability and accuracy of the
testing equipment, especially when only small changes are expected or
the accuracy of the testing equipment is poor. In exercise physiology,
especially the assessment of respiratory data is prone to errors linked
to the testing procedure. This error, together with biological variation
of maximal oxygen uptake, has been demonstrated to reach up to 5% (3,
8), thereby almost equaling the changes described in the manuscript. The
same applies to the ergometry equipment: it has been demonstrated that
many ergometers yield a high inaccuracy in their measurements,
especially mechanically braked models, such as the one used for the
present investigation (6, 10). In a comparable case report which uses
the same type of mechanically braked ergometer (9), the authors included
a 9% correction for their power measurements.

Unfortunately, the author does not report any data on the accuracy and
reliability (such as calibration data) of his testing equipment.
Especially when evaluating the calculations and conclusions drawn from
the data, this would be of great help.

Furthermore, we are not aware of a reliable constant power mode in
mechanically braked ergometers, such as the Monark model used for
several tests in the present study.

Results and discussion. The author highlights the importance of
improved muscular efficiency as being the main reason for Armstrong's
outstanding gain in performance. We feel that this assumption cannot be
made on the basis of the presented information, because no records are
available from periods where the athlete actually had peak form. In this
context, Fig. 1 is not correct, because it implies that Armstrong's
gross and delta efficiency have been constantly rising since the age of
20 yr, despite a period of more than reduced physical condition during
cancer treatment. On the basis of the presented data, the author cannot
judge the efficiency of any other moment than the ones studied (November
1992, January 1993, August 1997, November 1999). Furthermore, the
conclusion of the manuscript is even more surprising, because it has
been shown that efficiency is not a key factor to differentiate between
successful and unsuccessful cyclists (2, 7). Unpublished data from our
laboratory support these assumptions: elite cyclists do not show higher
efficiency than recreational cyclists. Furthermore, a high
interindividual variability can be noted. In a longitudinal follow-up
(intraindividually), however, efficiency remains remarkably stable, even
when overall physiological exercise performance highly varies.

It is therefore more likely that, in addition to very favorable genetic
assets of the athlete, common physiological adaptations associated with
endurance training, such as an improved aerobic and possibly anaerobic
energy metabolism, increased power-to-weight ratio, or enhanced recovery
functions, might have added to the truly outstanding sporting
achievements of Lance Armstrong.

It has to be considered that, aside from being determined by purely
physiological factors, performance in sporting competitions is highly
influenced by many other variables, such as tactical race understanding
and motivational and psychological issues. Although speculative, the
latter two might play a prominent role in Armstrong's sporting
achievements, especially when considering the athlete's unique medical
history and human experience as a cancer survivor. Armstrong might have
gained the edge over his physiologically equally strong competitors by
these means.

We feel obliged to raise these issues to the scientific community on
behalf of all scientists working with elite athletes. Even when the
popularity of an athlete might strongly influence the interest of
publishing data, both from the author working with the athlete and the
editor's side, the basic principles for scientific investigations should
be respected. Published data (especially if published in a highly
regarded scientific journal like the Journal of Applied Physiology)
represent the base of knowledge and interpretation for future
investigations and should therefore fulfill these scientific principles
to allow upcoming studies to rely on the validity of their outcomes.

REFERENCES

1. Coyle EF. Improved muscular efficiency displayed as Tour de
France champion matures. J Appl Physiol 98: 2191–2196,
2005.[Abstract/Free Full Text]
2. Jeukendrup A, Martin DT, and Gore CJ. Are world-class cyclists
really more efficient? Med Sci Sports Exerc 35: 1238–1241, 2003.[Medline]
3. Katch VL, Sady SS, and Freedson P. Biological variability in
maximum aerobic power. Med Sci Sports Exerc 14: 21–25, 1982.[Medline]
4. Lee H, Martin DT, Anson JM, Grundy D, and Hahn AG. Physiological
characteristics of successful mountain bikers and professional road
cyclists. J Sports Sci 20: 1001–1008, 2002.[Medline]
5. Lucia A, Pardo J, Durantez A, Hoyos J, and Chicharro JL.
Physiological differences between professional and elite road cyclists.
Int J Sports Med 19: 342–348,1998.[Web of Science][Medline]
6. Maxwell BF, Withers RT, Ilsley AH, Wakim MJ, Woods GF, and Day L.
Dynamic calibration of mechanically, air- and electromagnetically braked
cycle ergometers. Eur J Appl Physiol 78: 346–352, 1998.[CrossRef]
7. Moseley L and Jeukendrup AE. The reliability of cycling
efficiency. Med Sci Sports Exerc 33: 621–627, 2001.[Medline]
8. Myers J, Walsh D, Sullivan M, and Froelicher V. Effect of
sampling on variability and plateau in oxygen uptake. J Appl Physiol 68:
404–410, 1990.[Abstract/Free Full Text]
9. Padilla S, Mujika I, Angulo F, and Goiriena JJ. Scientific
approach to the 1-h cycling world record: a case study. J Appl Physiol
89: 1522–1527, 2000.[Abstract/Free Full Text]
10. Woods GF, Day L, Withers RT, Ilsley AH, and Maxwell BF. The
dynamic calibration of cycle ergometers. Int J Sports Med 15: 168–171,
1994.[Medline]

REPLY
Edward F. Coyle

Department of Kinesiology and Health Education
The University of Texas at Austin
Austin, Texas 78712
e-mail: coyle@mail.utexas.edu

To the Editor: I thank Dr. Schumacher et al. for the opportunity to
discuss the reliability and validity of our methods. Regarding
"scientific considerations," this study focused on physiology and not
the science of bicycle racing. Our main purpose was not to make
measurements around the Tour de France or to compare this subject (Lance
Armstrong) with other champions. The fact that our subject happened to
eventually win the Tour de France was interesting but not the main
"scientific consideration." Changes in muscle efficiency with 7 yr of
training was the focus.

Reliability was most important, both in terms of the subject as well as
the measurements of indirect calorimetry and power. This subject's level
of training and accessibility were most reliable from year to year in
the early part of the competitive season when most of our measures were
made. Besides, our study of Armstrong began before he ever competed in
the Tour de France. The fact that we did not report data after this
subject won his first Tour de France emphasizes, again, that our purpose
was to observe the maturation and not report the characteristics of the
existing champion.

Schumacher et al. have requested data regarding the reliability of our
respiratory testing equipment for measuring oxygen consumption. During
submaximal exercise at 60–70% maximal oxygen consumption in a group of
competitive cyclists (circa 1994), we have observed that oxygen
consumption when measured on 8 separate days in a given individual
displayed an average range of 0.08 l/min and a coefficient of variation
of ±0.87% (2). See Martin et al. (5) for additional insight. The notion
that a set 9% correction should be applied to all Monark ergometers is
not supported by Maxwell et al. (6). The model 819 Monark ergometer used
by Armstrong was calibrated statically and dynamically using pedal
dynamometers and found valid to within ±3% (1, 4), and power can be held
constant [as detailed in Martin et al. (5)].

Schumacher et al. state that "Fig. 1 is not correct" and then say that
"on the basis of presented data, the author cannot judge the efficiency
of any other moment than the ones studied (November 1992, January 1993,
August 1997, November 1999)." The manuscript never "judged" or
speculated about efficiency as it only reported actual data. Removing
data from 1997 does not alter the line between 1992 and 1999. These data
over years, to our knowledge, are the only published addressing
long-term efficiency and training. These data seem to conflict with
notions of Schumacher et al., because they state "efficiency is not a
key factor to differentiate between successful and unsuccessful
cyclists" on the basis of their own unpublished data as well as the work
of others (7). We have presented a model of how numerous physiological
factors interact to determine endurance performance and have discussed
that efficiency by itself does not account for most of the
interindividual variations in performance. In fact, in our 1991
manuscript (1), we also report that efficiency in a group of elite
cyclists does not differ significantly from a group of good cyclists
because of the high degree of individual variation in efficiency and
fiber type. However, in a following study during which maximal oxygen
consumption and lactate threshold were matched in a pairs of competitive
cyclists, it was clear that performance power was significantly higher
in subjects with greater gross efficiency and greater percentage of type
I fibers (3). In fact, Armstrong makes this point in that his efficiency
was only average when he was 21–22 yr despite the fact that he was
already elite and world champion. However, his efficiency improved and
he was able to generate 8% more power when cycling at a constant O2 of
5.0 l/min.

We appreciate that winning the Tour de France requires tactical race
understanding and motivational and psychological issues, among other
things. However, nonphysiological factors and the winning of the Tour de
France, although interesting, are not the focus of this investigation.

REFERENCES

1. Coyle E, Feltner M, Kautz S, Hamilton M, Montain S, Baylor A,
Abraham L, and Petrek G. Physiological and biomechanical factors
associated with elite endurance cycling performance. Med Sci Sports
Exerc 23: 93–107, 1991.[Web of Science][Medline]
2. Gonzalez-Alonso J. Dehydration and Cardiovascular Hemodynamics
During Exercise (PhD thesis). Austin, TX: University of Texas, 1994, p. 203.
3. Horowitz J, Sidossis L, and Coyle E. High efficiency of type I
muscle fibers improves performance. Int J Sports Med 15: 152–157,
1994.[Web of Science][Medline]
4. Kautz SAFM, Coyle EF, and Baylor AM. The pedaling technique of
elite endurance cyclists: changes with increasing workload at constant
cadence. Int J Sport Biomech 7: 29–53, 1991.
5. Martin DT, Quod MJ, and Gore CJ. Has Armstrong's cycling
efficiency improved? J Appl Physiol 99: 1628–1629, 2005.[Abstract/Free
Full Text]
6. Maxwell B, Withers R, Ilsley A, Wakim M, Woods G, and Day L.
Dynamic calibration of mechanically, air- and electromagnetically braked
cycle ergometers. Eur J Appl Physiol 78: 346–352, 1998.[CrossRef]
7. Moseley L, Achten J, Martin J, and Jeukendrup A. No differences
in cycling efficiency between world-class and recreational cyclists. Int
J Sports Med 25: 374–379, 2004.[Medline]

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 9:30 am
From: "derFahrer@gmail.com"


On Aug 24, 11:47 am, BLafferty <Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> Department of Sportmedizin
> Medizinische Universitaetsklinik Freiburg

Freiburg? Seriously?


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 24 2010 10:00 am
From: Andy Coggan


On Aug 24, 10:47 am, BLafferty <Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> Department of Sportmedizin
> Medizinische Universitaetsklinik Freiburg
> 79106 Freiburg, Germany
> e-mail: o...@msm1.ukl.uni-freiburg.de
>
> ABSTRACT
>
> This case describes the physiological maturation from ages 21 to 28 yr
> of the bicyclist who has now become the six-time consecutive Grand
> Champion of the Tour de France, at ages 27–32 yr. Maximal oxygen uptake
> (O2max) in the trained state remained at ~6 l/min, lean body weight
> remained at ~70 kg, and maximal heart rate declined from 207 to 200
> beats/min. Blood lactate threshold was typical of competitive cyclists
> in that it occurred at 76–85% O2max, yet maximal blood lactate
> concentration was remarkably low in the trained state. It appears that
> an 8% improvement in muscular efficiency and thus power production when
> cycling at a given oxygen uptake (O2) is the characteristic that
> improved most as this athlete matured from ages 21 to 28 yr. It is
> noteworthy that at age 25 yr, this champion developed advanced cancer,
> requiring surgeries and chemotherapy. During the months leading up to
> each of his Tour de France victories, he reduced body weight and body
> fat by 4–7 kg (i.e., ~7%). Therefore, over the 7-yr period, an
> improvement in muscular efficiency and reduced body fat contributed
> equally to a remarkable 18% improvement in his steady-state power per
> kilogram body weight when cycling at a given O2 (e.g., 5 l/min). It is
> hypothesized that the improved muscular efficiency probably reflects
> changes in muscle myosin type stimulated from years of training
> intensely for 3–6 h on most days.
>
> Scientific considerations for physiological evaluations of elite athletes
>
> To the Editor: Elite athletes are valuable study objects for exercise
> physiology: successful sportsmen offer unique insight into the extreme
> adaptation of the human organism to certain types of exercise and
> illustrate the amazing adaptation capacity of human physiology (9).
> Because of the unique characteristics of the study subjects, sample
> sizes in these investigations are usually low. Even case reports, such
> as in the article written by Dr. Coyle (1), can therefore be a valuable
> contribution to the scientific knowledge in this field.
>
> Nevertheless, such studies should respect the basic principles of
> scientific investigations. We feel that the investigation presented by
> Dr. Coyle has serious limitations in this context.
>
> Experimental design.   The aim of the study was, according to the
> author, to report "the physiological changes that occur in an individual
> bicycle racer during a 7-yr period" and thereby illustrate "the extreme
> to which the human can adapt to endurance training." Unfortunately, the
> data presented in the manuscript do not contain enough physiological
> information of the athlete in question (Lance Armstrong) to draw a
> picture sufficient to illustrate his physiological profile and the
> associated adaptations over 7 yr: in fact, no testing was performed in
> immediate connection with his Tour de France wins. It can be assumed
> that his physiological performance at that moment was much higher than
> the ones measured and described by the manuscript. The performance data
> reported in the manuscript are common to many elite cyclists (4, 5),
> none of whom matches the wins of Armstrong. Furthermore, the exercise
> tests outside the cancer period date from the months of January,
> November, and September; these are periods where professional cyclists,
> who target peak form for races in July, have barely the same condition
> as during their peak season. Therefore, all speculations in the
> manuscript on potential data during his Tour de France wins are not
> supported by any of the presented test results. To display a complete
> physiological profile of the athlete and to draw the present
> conclusions, at least some data from peak season testing should have
> been included. Interestingly, no data from the years of best performance
> of the athlete are presented: during the period from 2000–2005,
> Armstrong won five consecutive Tours de France; unfortunately, no
> exercise test seems to have been conducted during that time, which is
> rather surprising for an athlete of Armstrong's caliber.
>
> Methods.   To evaluate exercise performance and draw valid conclusions,
> it is essential to report data on the reliability and accuracy of the
> testing equipment, especially when only small changes are expected or
> the accuracy of the testing equipment is poor. In exercise physiology,
> especially the assessment of respiratory data is prone to errors linked
> to the testing procedure. This error, together with biological variation
> of maximal oxygen uptake, has been demonstrated to reach up to 5% (3,
> 8), thereby almost equaling the changes described in the manuscript. The
> same applies to the ergometry equipment: it has been demonstrated that
> many ergometers yield a high inaccuracy in their measurements,
> especially mechanically braked models, such as the one used for the
> present investigation (6, 10). In a comparable case report which uses
> the same type of mechanically braked ergometer (9), the authors included
> a 9% correction for their power measurements.
>
> Unfortunately, the author does not report any data on the accuracy and
> reliability (such as calibration data) of his testing equipment.
> Especially when evaluating the calculations and conclusions drawn from
> the data, this would be of great help.
>
> Furthermore, we are not aware of a reliable constant power mode in
> mechanically braked ergometers, such as the Monark model used for
> several tests in the present study.
>
> Results and discussion.   The author highlights the importance of
> improved muscular efficiency as being the main reason for Armstrong's
> outstanding gain in performance. We feel that this assumption cannot be
> made on the basis of the presented information, because no records are
> available from periods where the athlete actually had peak form. In this
> context, Fig. 1 is not correct, because it implies that Armstrong's
> gross and delta efficiency have been constantly rising since the age of
> 20 yr, despite a period of more than reduced physical condition during
> cancer treatment. On the basis of the presented data, the author cannot
> judge the efficiency of any other moment than the ones studied (November
> 1992, January 1993, August 1997, November 1999). Furthermore, the
> conclusion of the manuscript is even more surprising, because it has
> been shown that efficiency is not a key factor to differentiate between
> successful and unsuccessful cyclists (2, 7). Unpublished data from our
> laboratory support these assumptions: elite cyclists do not show higher
> efficiency than recreational cyclists. Furthermore, a high
> interindividual variability can be noted. In a longitudinal follow-up
> (intraindividually), however, efficiency remains remarkably stable, even
> when overall physiological exercise performance highly varies.
>
> It is therefore more likely that, in addition to very favorable genetic
> assets of the athlete, common physiological adaptations associated with
> endurance training, such as an improved aerobic and possibly anaerobic
> energy metabolism, increased power-to-weight ratio, or enhanced recovery
> functions, might have added to the truly outstanding sporting
> achievements of Lance Armstrong.
>
> It has to be considered that, aside from being determined by purely
> physiological factors, performance in sporting competitions is highly
> influenced by many other variables, such as tactical race understanding
> and motivational and psychological issues. Although speculative, the
> latter two might play a prominent role in Armstrong's sporting
> achievements, especially when considering the athlete's unique medical
> history and human experience as a cancer survivor. Armstrong might have
> gained the edge over his physiologically equally strong competitors by
> these means.
>
> We feel obliged to raise these issues to the scientific community on
> behalf of all scientists working with elite athletes. Even when the
> popularity of an athlete might strongly influence the interest of
> publishing data, both from the author working with the athlete and the
> editor's side, the basic principles for scientific investigations should
> be respected. Published data (especially if published in a highly
> regarded scientific journal like the Journal of Applied Physiology)
> represent the base of knowledge and interpretation for future
> investigations and should therefore fulfill these scientific principles
> to allow upcoming studies to rely on the validity of their outcomes.
>
> REFERENCES
>
>     1. Coyle EF. Improved muscular efficiency displayed as Tour de
> France champion matures. J Appl Physiol 98: 2191–2196,
> 2005.[Abstract/Free Full Text]
>     2. Jeukendrup A, Martin DT, and Gore CJ. Are world-class cyclists
> really more efficient? Med Sci Sports Exerc 35: 1238–1241, 2003.[Medline]
>     3. Katch VL, Sady SS, and Freedson P. Biological variability in
> maximum aerobic power. Med Sci Sports Exerc 14: 21–25, 1982.[Medline]
>     4. Lee H, Martin DT, Anson JM, Grundy D, and Hahn AG. Physiological
> characteristics of successful mountain bikers and professional road
> cyclists. J Sports Sci 20: 1001–1008, 2002.[Medline]
>     5. Lucia A, Pardo J, Durantez A, Hoyos J, and Chicharro JL.
> Physiological differences between professional and elite road cyclists.
> Int J Sports Med 19: 342–348,1998.[Web of Science][Medline]
>     6. Maxwell BF, Withers RT, Ilsley AH, Wakim MJ, Woods GF, and Day L.
> Dynamic calibration of mechanically, air- and electromagnetically braked
> cycle ergometers. Eur J Appl Physiol 78: 346–352, 1998.[CrossRef]
>     7. Moseley L and Jeukendrup AE. The reliability of cycling
> efficiency. Med Sci Sports Exerc 33: 621–627, 2001.[Medline]
>     8. Myers J, Walsh D, Sullivan M, and Froelicher V. Effect of
> sampling on variability and plateau in oxygen uptake. J Appl Physiol 68:
> 404–410, 1990.[Abstract/Free Full Text]
>     9.
> ...
>
> read more »

Why are you dredging up and reproducing the entire text of letters
published >5 y ago??

Andy Coggan


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