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rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 7 topics - digest

Buzz It
rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Farrar out-kicked Cavendish! - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5147fe906d8681d4?hl=en
* before you rip into me.. - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8746dcc03efbbaa5?hl=en
* What about cyclists like us? - 9 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/548f19907b59eaf1?hl=en
* Babbling Brooke Miller - 6 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/db5ce26fe3217bb9?hl=en
* Unanimous vote for CUNT of the decade - - - - - - - - - - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bcb1a22497d3ceaf?hl=en
* Fignon's death reminded me - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/ff5c20a48773c43e?hl=en
* Is it possible? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7745c2617105c395?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Farrar out-kicked Cavendish!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5147fe906d8681d4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 2:42 pm
From: Uncle Dave


On Sep 1, 7:36 pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > On Sep 1, 12:43 pm, LawBoy01 <phi...@pwm-law.com> wrote:
> > > On Sep 1, 12:17 pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
>
> > > > LawBoy01 wrote:
> > > > > Awesome job at the Vuelta today.  Does anybody know how many times
> > > > > Farrar has beaten Cavendish in a sprint finish now?  My guess is more
> > > > > than this time, but fewer than five.
>
> > > > The Vuelta is  a vacation race for the Caveman.  Only the Tour matters.
>
> > > > Try to pay attention.
>
> > > > Magilla
>
> > > Can either of you wizards answer the question of how many times Farrar
> > > has beaten Cavendish in a bunch sprint?
>
> > I'd say twice, Today and in Tirennio.
>
> The Vuelta is only important to cyclists who want to bang Spanish chicks with
> hairy armpits.

And the Tour is only important to those who can't think of something
better to do in July. Like go to the beach, curl up in the garden
with a good book, bury the cat,that kind of thing. June to September
is the silly season in cycling, fuck all of note happens then.

UD


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 2:49 pm
From: LawBoy01


On Sep 1, 2:02 pm, Bob Martin <bob.mar...@excite.com> wrote:
> in 644248 20100901 194155 LawBoy01 <phi...@pwm-law.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Sep 1, 1:36=A0pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> >> "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" wrote:
> >> > On Sep 1, 12:43=A0pm, LawBoy01 <phi...@pwm-law.com> wrote:
> >> > > On Sep 1, 12:17=A0pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wro=
> >te:
>
> >> > > > LawBoy01 wrote:
> >> > > > > Awesome job at the Vuelta today. =A0Does anybody know how many ti=
> >mes
> >> > > > > Farrar has beaten Cavendish in a sprint finish now? =A0My guess i=
> >s more
> >> > > > > than this time, but fewer than five.
>
> >> > > > The Vuelta is =A0a vacation race for the Caveman. =A0Only the Tour =
> >matters.
>
> >> > > > Try to pay attention.
>
> >> > > > Magilla
>
> >> > > Can either of you wizards answer the question of how many times Farra=
> >r
> >> > > has beaten Cavendish in a bunch sprint?
>
> >> > I'd say twice, Today and in Tirennio.
>
> >> The Vuelta is only important to cyclists who want to bang Spanish chicks =
> >with
> >> hairy armpits.
>
> >> Magilla- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >If you mean that the Vuelta needs to change its position on the
> >calendar, then yeah I would agree with you.
>
> It already has - it used to be the first.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No shit, Sherlock.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 3:04 pm
From: Ben Trovato


On Sep 1, 11:36 am, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> LawBoy01 wrote:
> > On Sep 1, 12:17 pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> > > LawBoy01 wrote:
> > > > Awesome job at the Vuelta today.  Does anybody know how many times
> > > > Farrar has beaten Cavendish in a sprint finish now?  My guess is more
> > > > than this time, but fewer than five.
>
> > > The Vuelta is  a vacation race for the Caveman.  Only the Tour matters.
>
> > > Try to pay attention.
>
> > > Magilla
>
> > Can either of you wizards answer the question of how many times Farrar
> > has beaten Cavendish in a bunch sprint?
>
> Yeah, I can.  The answer is so many times that Anorexic Drew Carey decided
> to go out and hire a real sprinter (Thor).
>
> Magilla

Sheesh, you're like Kenny Hummalong on a mountain stage; it's
pointless to tell you to keep up. Or like one of those gerbil racers
you're always going on about, same crap, different lap.
Thor's not a sprinter anymore.
Now why don't you run along and type up some more of your tin-eared
dialogue? Do try to keep it under two minutes.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: before you rip into me..
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8746dcc03efbbaa5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 2:45 pm
From: BLafferty


On 9/1/2010 2:05 PM, Fred Flintstein wrote:
> On 9/1/2010 12:02 PM, BLafferty wrote:
>> On 9/1/2010 12:35 PM, Mr. Slate wrote:
>>> Davey Crockett wrote:
>>>
>>>> Likewise I remember Larry having bouts of Tapeworm during his career.
>>>
>>> Laurent had a tapeworm I believe I read somewhere, years ago.
>>>
>>>
>> Yeah. He was sitting on a couch after some race when it started to
>> wriggle out of his butt.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> It was the 1988 Tour. And tapeworms don't do that.
>
> Fred Flintstein

Symptoms of Taeniasis: Diarrhea, anorexia, nausea, vomiting, *anal
itching*, colic, ascites, headaches and weight loss are common symptoms
of having tapeworms. With severe infections hives, fever and convulsions
can also occur. Sometimes they embed in the tissues causing intestinal
nodules or cysts in the skin, lung or liver. An animal or human with a
tapeworm may also have a craving for salt. The tapeworms also compete
with the organism for Vitamin B 12, so slight anemia can occur. Seen
under a microscope, the red blood cells are immature looking and darker
in color than mature red blood cells.
http://www.naturalhealthtechniques.com/specificdiseases/tapeworms_files/tapeworms.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/hymenolepis/factsht_hymenolepis.htm

Beef tapeworms can cause anal itching . See p. 346, right column, second
full paragraph.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=20&ved=0CDwQFjAJOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pharmj.com%2Fpdf%2Fcpd%2Fpj_20060916_parasiticworm.pdf&rct=j&q=tapeworm%20itching&ei=k8d-TJ6ILYP98Ab-kq3SAw&usg=AFQjCNEgLp1MPsdzTxqGxZxGSfNQ3GoC-w&cad=rja

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 4:01 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"


"Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
news:4C7EB796.62C4BD04@sandiegozoo.org...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
>> "Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
>> news:4C7EA12E.CE0C23AF@sandiegozoo.org...
>> > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Cicero Venatio" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:c4ydnQQQm4U2NeDRnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>> >> > Didn't Fignon himself blame the performance enhancing drugs for his
>> >> > cancer? I'll bet a lot of cyclists will lose some sleep tonight,
>> >> > wondering if they'll be next.
>> >>
>> >> Curious that LeMond made no mention of Fignon's drug use-
>> >> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-remembers-fignon. Talks about
>> >> what
>> >> a
>> >> great friend and champion he was. Fignon, near as I can tell, never
>> >> renounced doping, just admitted to it.
>> >>
>> >> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>> >> Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> >> www.ChainReaction.com
>> >> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>> >
>> > I think Lemond felt it unnecessary to trample on a man's grave during
>> > what
>> > is
>> > a time of grieiving and great pain for Fignon's wife and children.
>> >
>> > Where's your soul, brother?
>> >
>> > Magilla
>>
>> Ah, forgive me, I bow to the conscience of rbr.
>>
>> But seriously, Fignon raised the question himself in his book regarding
>> his
>> illness and doping. It would hardly be a slam to his family to bring up
>> the
>> idea that Fignon did raise the question, a question which ultimately
>> might
>> make for a safer environment for future generations. That's a hopeful
>> message. But nothing.
>>
>> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>> Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> www.ChainReaction.com
>> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> How do you know Lemon D won't bring it up in the near future? Perhaps
> Lemon D
> didn't bring it up because he felt there was no definitive correlation to
> Filet
> Mignon's death and his doping use over 2 decades ago?
>
> Magilla

In the past, he couldn't help himself. Perhaps this is a significant event,
Greg entering a new stage in his life where he feels more secure about his
place in the cycling community. Maybe he feels that he's been vindicated by
public opinion (regarding Lance) so he's got that monkey off his back.

But I keep coming back to the fact that Greg knows he raced against a
confessed doper and it's no big deal. Could it be because he beat Fignon?
Would things have been very different had Fignon won in 1989?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 5:35 pm
From: Magilla Gorilla


Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

> "Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
> news:4C7EB796.62C4BD04@sandiegozoo.org...
> > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >
> >> "Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
> >> news:4C7EA12E.CE0C23AF@sandiegozoo.org...
> >> > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Cicero Venatio" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:c4ydnQQQm4U2NeDRnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> >> >> > Didn't Fignon himself blame the performance enhancing drugs for his
> >> >> > cancer? I'll bet a lot of cyclists will lose some sleep tonight,
> >> >> > wondering if they'll be next.
> >> >>
> >> >> Curious that LeMond made no mention of Fignon's drug use-
> >> >> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-remembers-fignon. Talks about
> >> >> what
> >> >> a
> >> >> great friend and champion he was. Fignon, near as I can tell, never
> >> >> renounced doping, just admitted to it.
> >> >>
> >> >> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> >> >> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> >> >> www.ChainReaction.com
> >> >> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
> >> >
> >> > I think Lemond felt it unnecessary to trample on a man's grave during
> >> > what
> >> > is
> >> > a time of grieiving and great pain for Fignon's wife and children.
> >> >
> >> > Where's your soul, brother?
> >> >
> >> > Magilla
> >>
> >> Ah, forgive me, I bow to the conscience of rbr.
> >>
> >> But seriously, Fignon raised the question himself in his book regarding
> >> his
> >> illness and doping. It would hardly be a slam to his family to bring up
> >> the
> >> idea that Fignon did raise the question, a question which ultimately
> >> might
> >> make for a safer environment for future generations. That's a hopeful
> >> message. But nothing.
> >>
> >> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> >> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> >> www.ChainReaction.com
> >> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
> >
> > How do you know Lemon D won't bring it up in the near future? Perhaps
> > Lemon D
> > didn't bring it up because he felt there was no definitive correlation to
> > Filet
> > Mignon's death and his doping use over 2 decades ago?
> >
> > Magilla
>
> In the past, he couldn't help himself.

No no no...Lemon D only made a correlation to active riders dying in their
sleep due to EPO use. I don't ever recall him making a correlation to doping
and cancer - not even in Lance's case.


> Perhaps this is a significant event,
> Greg entering a new stage in his life where he feels more secure about his
> place in the cycling community. Maybe he feels that he's been vindicated by
> public opinion (regarding Lance) so he's got that monkey off his back.

I think it has more to do with Fignon saying "everyone doped" and Lemon D not
wanting to touch that with a 10-foot pole (or an 11-foot Italian).


>
>
> But I keep coming back to the fact that Greg knows he raced against a
> confessed doper and it's no big deal. Could it be because he beat Fignon?
> Would things have been very different had Fignon won in 1989?
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Lemon D is a hypocrite when it comes to Fignon - no question about it. Not
sure why but it probably has to do with Fignon only won 2 Tours and had no
chance of eclipsing him in U.S. sponsors (i.e. Trek, etc.). Now that he is
dead Lemon D has even less incentive to beat him down.

Magilla

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 7:32 pm
From: "H. Fred Kveck"


In article <6eqdnWo8NZ6hRuPRnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:

> But I keep coming back to the fact that Greg knows he raced against a
> confessed doper and it's no big deal. Could it be because he beat Fignon?
> Would things have been very different had Fignon won in 1989?

I'd say it's because Fignon wasn't American. LemonD goes after the Americans whom
perform well (i.e. win the Tour) on the international stage. He goes after guys whom
disturb his concept (or conceit) of "Greg LemonD is ***the*** greatest American
bicycle racer *ever*."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What about cyclists like us?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/548f19907b59eaf1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 2:50 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of the Jungle"


On Sep 1, 2:38 pm, Uncle Dave <davidco...@t-online.de> wrote:
> On Sep 1, 9:29 pm, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> > > There's nothing wrong with a desire for accuracy.
> > > I'm far more concerned that fantasists seem to wish for everyone else
> > > to share in their fantasies.
>
> You failed to quote the really telling statistic from the report -
> "Nearly all bicyclist fatalities (92%) occurred as a result of crashes
> with motor vehicles".  You place yourself in dodgy company.  There was
> an asshole here in the UK who, failing to watch where he was going,
> killed a cyclist and then had the timerity to start a campaign to make
> wearing of helmets mandatory.  Faced with such stupidity and denial,
> it's no wonder that cyclists are less than enamoured when somebody
> starts lecturing them about wearing helmets.  Helmets aren't the
> problem, car drivers are.
>
> UD

They have made cars 10 times as safe lately with so many air bags as
if reckless driving wouldn't result in death. For cyclists it does.

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 3:26 pm
From: Andre Jute


On Sep 1, 10:38 pm, Uncle Dave <davidco...@t-online.de> wrote:
> On Sep 1, 9:29 pm, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>

I'm afraid, Uncle Dave, that people will assume the worst of you for
snipping the numbers and the reference. So I give them again for
everyone's benefit.

• Most fatal crashes (74%) involved a head injury.
• Nearly all bicyclists who died (97%) were not wearing a helmet.
• Helmet use was only 3% in fatal crashes, but 13% in non-fatal
crashes

Source:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/episrv/episrv-bike-report.pdf

> > > There's nothing wrong with a desire for accuracy.
> > > I'm far more concerned that fantasists seem to wish for everyone else
> > > to share in their fantasies.

Yes, that's why I want to publish honest statistics, because there are
too many malicious clowns who lie about the numbers.

> You failed to quote the really telling statistic from the report -
> "Nearly all bicyclist fatalities (92%) occurred as a result of crashes
> with motor vehicles".  You place yourself in dodgy company.  

That's always the danger when you make soundbite summaries for the
soundbite minds on the net. The short-brain anti-helmet zealots were
complaining that the report and even my summary were too long for them
to grasp, so I made that crisp summary, which left out the more
obvious, generally agreed statistics, like "Nearly all bicyclist
fatalities (92%) occurred as a result of crashes with motor vehicles."

>There was
> an asshole here in the UK who, failing to watch where he was going,
> killed a cyclist and then had the timerity to start a campaign to make
> wearing of helmets mandatory.  

Some people have a goddamn cheek.

>Faced with such stupidity and denial,
> it's no wonder that cyclists are less than enamoured when somebody
> starts lecturing them about wearing helmets.

I hope you aren't talking about me. I made no recommendation for
either helmet wear or against, for either mandatory helmet laws or
against. I'm publishing honest statistics as a social service to
cyclists. I don't appreciative anonymous clowns trying to insinuate
that I have an agenda.

> Helmets aren't the
> problem, car drivers are.

I agree. The culture has to be changed to make the driver responsible
when he hits the cyclist.

Andre Jute
Krygo, he say, "Any old number is good number."


== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 4:56 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"


Can we move this off rbr please? It really serves no point here. All you've
succeeded in doing is getting a whole lot of people here on rbr who actually
*do* wear helmets argue against them, just because. It really has nothing to
do with bicycle racing these days. Unless riders are hiding their dope in
their helmets.

The only valid helmet threads on rbr should be those dealing with style and
their ability to hold sunglasses.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 6:26 pm
From: "Mr. Slate"


Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> Can we move this off rbr please? It really serves no point here. All
> you've succeeded in doing is getting a whole lot of people here on
> rbr who actually *do* wear helmets argue against them, just because.
> It really has nothing to do with bicycle racing these days. Unless
> riders are hiding their dope in their helmets.
>
> The only valid helmet threads on rbr should be those dealing with
> style and their ability to hold sunglasses.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky

You should be asking them to just remove rbr from the crossposting headers.
That would do it.


== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 6:47 pm
From: dave a


On 9/1/2010 6:26 PM, Mr. Slate wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> Can we move this off rbr please? It really serves no point here. All
>> you've succeeded in doing is getting a whole lot of people here on
>> rbr who actually *do* wear helmets argue against them, just because.
>> It really has nothing to do with bicycle racing these days. Unless
>> riders are hiding their dope in their helmets.
>>
>> The only valid helmet threads on rbr should be those dealing with
>> style and their ability to hold sunglasses.
>>
>> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>
> You should be asking them to just remove rbr from the crossposting headers.
> That would do it.
>
>

Considering the current level of discussion on rbr, I don't see much
difference between the helmet wars and the drug wars. Nothing new to
discuss in either area. Fortunately, it's pretty easy to avoid both.
There is actually some racing going on, but you would hardly know it here.


== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 7:37 pm
From: Brad Anders


On Sep 1, 2:14 pm, Plano Dude <tx.wastel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There is no "us". You don't speak for anyone but yourself, so fuck off.

I agree. AJ needs to fuck off. Of course, he won't, but he really
should fuck off.

Brad Anders


== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 8:08 pm
From: Andre Jute


On Sep 1, 11:12 pm, Frank Krygowski <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:

> the fact that bike helmets have
> extremely tiny protective capabilities.

There is now serious evidence to contradict this old shibboleth of the
anti-helmet zealots. From the official New York compilation of eight
years of cyclist fatalities and SERIOUS accidents:

• Most fatal crashes (74%) involved a head injury.
• Nearly all (97%) of the 225 bicyclists who died were not wearing a
helmet.
• Helmet use was only 3% in fatal crashes, but 13% in the 333 SERIOUS
non-fatal crashes for which helmet use was noted.

Source:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/episrv/episrv-bike-report.pdf

It is quite clear from these numbers that:
• Wearing a helmet saves lives.
• Wearing a helmet made the difference between life and death for
almost 10% of the injured cyclists.
• That's 33 cyclists alive who are very likely to have died without a
helmet.

In what sort of a mirrorworld are 33 people alive rather than dead
proof of "the fact that bike helmets have extremely tiny protective
capabilities".

I look forward to your explanation, Krygowski.

Andre Jute
Relentless rigour -- Gaius Germanicus Caesar


== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 8:15 pm
From: Tim McNamara


In article
<ee7e99d7-ff5f-4662-aaa4-01bc3f5f6e12@f42g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Uncle Dave <davidcovey@t-online.de> wrote:

> Helmets aren't the problem, car drivers are.

Sometimes. And sometimes the problem is a loose nut holding on to the
handlebars. We've all seen the idiots riding the wrong way against
traffic, the wrong way down one way streets, blowing through red lights
and stop signs, riding in dark clothing without lights or reflectors at
night, riding with no brakes, etc. The term "contributory negligence"
applies.

--
That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, Bingo.


== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 8:31 pm
From: Andre Jute


On Sep 2, 4:15 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> In article
> <ee7e99d7-ff5f-4662-aaa4-01bc3f5f6...@f42g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
>  Uncle Dave <davidco...@t-online.de> wrote:
>
> > Helmets aren't the problem, car drivers are.
>
> Sometimes.  And sometimes the problem is a loose nut holding on to the
> handlebars.  We've all seen the idiots riding the wrong way against
> traffic, the wrong way down one way streets, blowing through red lights
> and stop signs, riding in dark clothing without lights or reflectors at
> night, riding with no brakes, etc.  The term "contributory negligence"
> applies.
>
> --
> That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, Bingo.

Gee. Sometimes I really wonder if we're all on the same side. -- Andre
Jute

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Babbling Brooke Miller
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/db5ce26fe3217bb9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 3:52 pm
From: "Mr. Slate"


Magilla Gorilla wrote:
> "I'm really happy in my real-world life and so I came to the
> realisation that if I'm not going to the Olympics, which is what I
> was training for, then I didn't want to have a half-assed mediocre
> career," she added.
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/miller-announces-surprise-retirement-from-womens-peloton
>
> ----
>
> So instead she quits while having a half-assed mediocre career.
>
> And don't kid yourself, Brooke Miller was never going to qualify for
> the Olympics because she wasn't even invited to the worlds teams for
> the past 2 years. And her national road championship wins were done
> without the entire Olympic women's team being present on what
> everyone knows was essentially a crit course in Irvine, Calif.
>
> The girl is delusional about her abilities if the only thing in
> cycling for her were the Olympics then that's one fucked up
> motivation. Last person who talked like that was Jeff Evanshine.
> The Olympics is a gay-ass event (for cycling at least).
>
> Watch, next year she will announce she is un-retiring.
>
> Magilla

She figured it out, but they didn't mention is a little short girl named
Shelly Evans came out of nowhere and starting kicking ass. Olympic Dream is
an long shot, for sure, but I am betting Evans will be on the Olympic team.


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 5:22 pm
From: Magilla Gorilla


"Mr. Slate" wrote:

> Magilla Gorilla wrote:
> > "I'm really happy in my real-world life and so I came to the
> > realisation that if I'm not going to the Olympics, which is what I
> > was training for, then I didn't want to have a half-assed mediocre
> > career," she added.
> >
> > http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/miller-announces-surprise-retirement-from-womens-peloton
> >
> > ----
> >
> > So instead she quits while having a half-assed mediocre career.
> >
> > And don't kid yourself, Brooke Miller was never going to qualify for
> > the Olympics because she wasn't even invited to the worlds teams for
> > the past 2 years. And her national road championship wins were done
> > without the entire Olympic women's team being present on what
> > everyone knows was essentially a crit course in Irvine, Calif.
> >
> > The girl is delusional about her abilities if the only thing in
> > cycling for her were the Olympics then that's one fucked up
> > motivation. Last person who talked like that was Jeff Evanshine.
> > The Olympics is a gay-ass event (for cycling at least).
> >
> > Watch, next year she will announce she is un-retiring.
> >
> > Magilla
>
> She figured it out, but they didn't mention is a little short girl named
> Shelly Evans came out of nowhere and starting kicking ass. Olympic Dream is
> an long shot, for sure, but I am betting Evans will be on the Olympic team.

Shelly Evans will likely make the Olympic team so long as she keeps sprinting well,
especially since the London course is supposedly pancake flat so as to favor the Caveman and
Nicole "I can't find a sponsor" Cooke., This will also make the course favorable to
hermaphrodite Ina Fattenberg and riders like Shelly Olds/Evans.

But why all the fuss for a one day race that only takes place once every 4 years? It doesn't
mean anything. Nobody thinks Sara Carrigan and Pascal Richard are the best road racers just
because they won a gold medal in the Olympics.

Magilla

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 5:34 pm
From: "Mr. Slate"


Magilla Gorilla wrote:
> "Mr. Slate" wrote:
>
>> Magilla Gorilla wrote:
>>> "I'm really happy in my real-world life and so I came to the
>>> realisation that if I'm not going to the Olympics, which is what I
>>> was training for, then I didn't want to have a half-assed mediocre
>>> career," she added.
>>>
>>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/miller-announces-surprise-retirement-from-womens-peloton
>>>
>>> ----
>>>
>>> So instead she quits while having a half-assed mediocre career.
>>>
>>> And don't kid yourself, Brooke Miller was never going to qualify for
>>> the Olympics because she wasn't even invited to the worlds teams for
>>> the past 2 years. And her national road championship wins were done
>>> without the entire Olympic women's team being present on what
>>> everyone knows was essentially a crit course in Irvine, Calif.
>>>
>>> The girl is delusional about her abilities if the only thing in
>>> cycling for her were the Olympics then that's one fucked up
>>> motivation. Last person who talked like that was Jeff Evanshine.
>>> The Olympics is a gay-ass event (for cycling at least).
>>>
>>> Watch, next year she will announce she is un-retiring.
>>>
>>> Magilla
>>
>> She figured it out, but they didn't mention is a little short girl
>> named Shelly Evans came out of nowhere and starting kicking ass.
>> Olympic Dream is an long shot, for sure, but I am betting Evans will
>> be on the Olympic team.
>
> Shelly Evans will likely make the Olympic team so long as she keeps
> sprinting well, especially since the London course is supposedly
> pancake flat so as to favor the Caveman and Nicole "I can't find a
> sponsor" Cooke., This will also make the course favorable to
> hermaphrodite Ina Fattenberg and riders like Shelly Olds/Evans.
>
> But why all the fuss for a one day race that only takes place once
> every 4 years? It doesn't mean anything. Nobody thinks Sara
> Carrigan and Pascal Richard are the best road racers just because
> they won a gold medal in the Olympics.
>
> Magilla

I think women are learning that the Olympics is not all it's cracked up to
be. I'm betting after 2012, teams will stop building their sponsorships
around it.


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 6:56 pm
From: Magilla Gorilla


"Mr. Slate" wrote:

> Magilla Gorilla wrote:
> > "Mr. Slate" wrote:
> >
> >> Magilla Gorilla wrote:
> >>> "I'm really happy in my real-world life and so I came to the
> >>> realisation that if I'm not going to the Olympics, which is what I
> >>> was training for, then I didn't want to have a half-assed mediocre
> >>> career," she added.
> >>>
> >>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/miller-announces-surprise-retirement-from-womens-peloton
> >>>
> >>> ----
> >>>
> >>> So instead she quits while having a half-assed mediocre career.
> >>>
> >>> And don't kid yourself, Brooke Miller was never going to qualify for
> >>> the Olympics because she wasn't even invited to the worlds teams for
> >>> the past 2 years. And her national road championship wins were done
> >>> without the entire Olympic women's team being present on what
> >>> everyone knows was essentially a crit course in Irvine, Calif.
> >>>
> >>> The girl is delusional about her abilities if the only thing in
> >>> cycling for her were the Olympics then that's one fucked up
> >>> motivation. Last person who talked like that was Jeff Evanshine.
> >>> The Olympics is a gay-ass event (for cycling at least).
> >>>
> >>> Watch, next year she will announce she is un-retiring.
> >>>
> >>> Magilla
> >>
> >> She figured it out, but they didn't mention is a little short girl
> >> named Shelly Evans came out of nowhere and starting kicking ass.
> >> Olympic Dream is an long shot, for sure, but I am betting Evans will
> >> be on the Olympic team.
> >
> > Shelly Evans will likely make the Olympic team so long as she keeps
> > sprinting well, especially since the London course is supposedly
> > pancake flat so as to favor the Caveman and Nicole "I can't find a
> > sponsor" Cooke., This will also make the course favorable to
> > hermaphrodite Ina Fattenberg and riders like Shelly Olds/Evans.
> >
> > But why all the fuss for a one day race that only takes place once
> > every 4 years? It doesn't mean anything. Nobody thinks Sara
> > Carrigan and Pascal Richard are the best road racers just because
> > they won a gold medal in the Olympics.
> >
> > Magilla
>
> I think women are learning that the Olympics is not all it's cracked up to
> be. I'm betting after 2012, teams will stop building their sponsorships
> around it.

I don't know about that....you ask most women and they're all Lady GaGa about the Olympics.
90% of them are making less than $8,000/year and all they talk about is the fucking Olympics.
The women are not the most professional when it comes to figuring out solutions to problems on
their side of the sport.

Trying to tell the women not to worship the Olympics is like trying to tell high schools in
Texas that football isn't the most important thing in life.

Phil

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 7:35 pm
From: "Mr. Slate"


Magilla Gorilla wrote:
> "Mr. Slate" wrote:
>
>> Magilla Gorilla wrote:
>>> "Mr. Slate" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Magilla Gorilla wrote:
>>>>> "I'm really happy in my real-world life and so I came to the
>>>>> realisation that if I'm not going to the Olympics, which is what I
>>>>> was training for, then I didn't want to have a half-assed mediocre
>>>>> career," she added.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/miller-announces-surprise-retirement-from-womens-peloton
>>>>>
>>>>> ----
>>>>>
>>>>> So instead she quits while having a half-assed mediocre career.
>>>>>
>>>>> And don't kid yourself, Brooke Miller was never going to qualify
>>>>> for the Olympics because she wasn't even invited to the worlds
>>>>> teams for the past 2 years. And her national road championship
>>>>> wins were done without the entire Olympic women's team being
>>>>> present on what everyone knows was essentially a crit course in
>>>>> Irvine, Calif.
>>>>>
>>>>> The girl is delusional about her abilities if the only thing in
>>>>> cycling for her were the Olympics then that's one fucked up
>>>>> motivation. Last person who talked like that was Jeff Evanshine.
>>>>> The Olympics is a gay-ass event (for cycling at least).
>>>>>
>>>>> Watch, next year she will announce she is un-retiring.
>>>>>
>>>>> Magilla
>>>>
>>>> She figured it out, but they didn't mention is a little short girl
>>>> named Shelly Evans came out of nowhere and starting kicking ass.
>>>> Olympic Dream is an long shot, for sure, but I am betting Evans
>>>> will be on the Olympic team.
>>>
>>> Shelly Evans will likely make the Olympic team so long as she keeps
>>> sprinting well, especially since the London course is supposedly
>>> pancake flat so as to favor the Caveman and Nicole "I can't find a
>>> sponsor" Cooke., This will also make the course favorable to
>>> hermaphrodite Ina Fattenberg and riders like Shelly Olds/Evans.
>>>
>>> But why all the fuss for a one day race that only takes place once
>>> every 4 years? It doesn't mean anything. Nobody thinks Sara
>>> Carrigan and Pascal Richard are the best road racers just because
>>> they won a gold medal in the Olympics.
>>>
>>> Magilla
>>
>> I think women are learning that the Olympics is not all it's cracked
>> up to be. I'm betting after 2012, teams will stop building their
>> sponsorships around it.
>
> I don't know about that....you ask most women and they're all Lady
> GaGa about the Olympics. 90% of them are making less than $8,000/year
> and all they talk about is the fucking Olympics. The women are not
> the most professional when it comes to figuring out solutions to
> problems on their side of the sport.
>
> Trying to tell the women not to worship the Olympics is like trying
> to tell high schools in Texas that football isn't the most important
> thing in life.

That's funny cause I know a lot of riders who went to Lady Gaga concerts.
They're hot for Lady Gaga! They think the Olympics is all they got, so this
is what they talk about, but sponsors are wising up to the Olympic mantra.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 7:36 pm
From: Brad Anders


You are one boring dude. Your posting was as predictable as the
sunrise. Can't you find a new shtick? We're dying for entertainment
around here.

Brad Anders

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Unanimous vote for CUNT of the decade - - - - - - - - -
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bcb1a22497d3ceaf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 5:14 pm
From: Anton Berlin


Andre Jute and we're only 8 months into it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fignon's death reminded me
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/ff5c20a48773c43e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 6:54 pm
From: Anton Berlin


That back in the day I had a blue Gitane with yellow bar tape and a
Campy SR gruppo. I completely forgot about that bike.

Neat list of bikes

http://www.gitaneusa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1525&sid=eb44cfc11f44b589ea4e1784845fa3ca

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is it possible?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7745c2617105c395?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 7:39 pm
From: Brad Anders


On Sep 1, 7:08 am, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:

> PS  We (by that I mean you) really need to work on stepping up the
> quality of rant.  We (still you) are slipping.

Like I said, boring. We have come to expect more.

Brad Anders


==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

Buzz It
rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* before you rip into me.. - 7 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8746dcc03efbbaa5?hl=en
* Vuelta a Espana, stage 5 summary - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0389aecf3c08c18a?hl=en
* Farrar out-kicked Cavendish! - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5147fe906d8681d4?hl=en
* McIlvain to Grand Jury - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/b6528d722cbca9af?hl=en
* Fignon Passes - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c99538b65106857d?hl=en
* RadioShat to end sponsorship in 2011 - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/d295ccc6887b04b8?hl=en
* Things Really Hitting the Shitter for LANCE - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a32d1cbb49f1824a?hl=en
* Laurent Fignon in pictures - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/9fec60eefeaf535a?hl=en
* Is it possible? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7745c2617105c395?hl=en
* Babbling Brooke Miller - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/db5ce26fe3217bb9?hl=en
* What about cyclists like us? - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/548f19907b59eaf1?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: before you rip into me..
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8746dcc03efbbaa5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 11:49 am
From: Magilla Gorilla


Cicero Venatio wrote:

> Didn't Fignon himself blame the performance enhancing drugs for his
> cancer? I'll bet a lot of cyclists will lose some sleep tonight,
> wondering if they'll be next.

Most cyclists are too stupid to even think, so I doubt they are capable
of wondering about anything.

Magilla

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 11:53 am
From: Magilla Gorilla


Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

> "Cicero Venatio" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c4ydnQQQm4U2NeDRnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> > Didn't Fignon himself blame the performance enhancing drugs for his
> > cancer? I'll bet a lot of cyclists will lose some sleep tonight,
> > wondering if they'll be next.
>
> Curious that LeMond made no mention of Fignon's drug use-
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-remembers-fignon. Talks about what a
> great friend and champion he was. Fignon, near as I can tell, never
> renounced doping, just admitted to it.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

I think Lemond felt it unnecessary to trample on a man's grave during what is
a time of grieiving and great pain for Fignon's wife and children.

Where's your soul, brother?

Magilla

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 12:18 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"


"Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
news:4C7EA12E.CE0C23AF@sandiegozoo.org...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
>> "Cicero Venatio" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:c4ydnQQQm4U2NeDRnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>> > Didn't Fignon himself blame the performance enhancing drugs for his
>> > cancer? I'll bet a lot of cyclists will lose some sleep tonight,
>> > wondering if they'll be next.
>>
>> Curious that LeMond made no mention of Fignon's drug use-
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-remembers-fignon. Talks about what
>> a
>> great friend and champion he was. Fignon, near as I can tell, never
>> renounced doping, just admitted to it.
>>
>> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>> Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> www.ChainReaction.com
>> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> I think Lemond felt it unnecessary to trample on a man's grave during what
> is
> a time of grieiving and great pain for Fignon's wife and children.
>
> Where's your soul, brother?
>
> Magilla

Ah, forgive me, I bow to the conscience of rbr.

But seriously, Fignon raised the question himself in his book regarding his
illness and doping. It would hardly be a slam to his family to bring up the
idea that Fignon did raise the question, a question which ultimately might
make for a safer environment for future generations. That's a hopeful
message. But nothing.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 1:09 pm
From: "Beloved Fred No. 1"


BLafferty wrote:
> True. I checked the the Euro stomach cancer rates and France is quite
> low on the list. Lithuania was number one--Sweden and Norway at the bottom.

Ie don't eat at a Lithuanian McDonalds.


== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 1:10 pm
From: "Beloved Fred No. 1"


Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> Ullrich should've done that strategy. Ingest a few tapeworms, get the weight
> down while eating as much as he wants, then remove the tapeworms right
> before the TdF.

WADA would ban tapeworms.


== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 1:29 pm
From: Magilla Gorilla


Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

> "Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
> news:4C7EA12E.CE0C23AF@sandiegozoo.org...
> > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >
> >> "Cicero Venatio" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:c4ydnQQQm4U2NeDRnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> >> > Didn't Fignon himself blame the performance enhancing drugs for his
> >> > cancer? I'll bet a lot of cyclists will lose some sleep tonight,
> >> > wondering if they'll be next.
> >>
> >> Curious that LeMond made no mention of Fignon's drug use-
> >> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-remembers-fignon. Talks about what
> >> a
> >> great friend and champion he was. Fignon, near as I can tell, never
> >> renounced doping, just admitted to it.
> >>
> >> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> >> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> >> www.ChainReaction.com
> >> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
> >
> > I think Lemond felt it unnecessary to trample on a man's grave during what
> > is
> > a time of grieiving and great pain for Fignon's wife and children.
> >
> > Where's your soul, brother?
> >
> > Magilla
>
> Ah, forgive me, I bow to the conscience of rbr.
>
> But seriously, Fignon raised the question himself in his book regarding his
> illness and doping. It would hardly be a slam to his family to bring up the
> idea that Fignon did raise the question, a question which ultimately might
> make for a safer environment for future generations. That's a hopeful
> message. But nothing.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

How do you know Lemon D won't bring it up in the near future? Perhaps Lemon D
didn't bring it up because he felt there was no definitive correlation to Filet
Mignon's death and his doping use over 2 decades ago?

Magilla


== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 2:27 pm
From: Uncle Dave


On Sep 1, 6:09 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> "Uncle Dave" <davidco...@t-online.de> wrote in message
>
> news:122a4d52-1aa1-4fd3-8bcb-3b95df204178@q2g2000yqq.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 1, 7:52 am, "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > "Cicero Venatio" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:c4ydnQQQm4U2NeDRnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> > : Didn't Fignon himself blame the performance enhancing drugs for his
> > : cancer?
>
> > Jackass -
>
> > He didn't do that at all.
>
> > He thinks maybe it was a factor, but he really didn't know.
>
> :: It's a god point though.  Before the latest set of drugs scandals -
> :: i.e. those which blew up just before the millenium - I remember
> :: remarking to my wife on how odd it was that so many top cyclists that
> :: I read about in my youth and who rode in the 50s and 60s were dying
> :: off.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> It's been discussed here many times how much of a red herring that is.
>
> The average looks low because the guys who are gonna live till they're 95
> aren't factored in yet.

Well, yeah, obviously. I wasn't looking at statistics, just names.
I've noticed a similar trend in rugby league. Purely anecdotal,
though it would be interesting to see how it pans out. Interesting,
and too late to do anything for future generations...

UD

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Vuelta a Espana, stage 5 summary
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0389aecf3c08c18a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 11:56 am
From: Bob Martin



Stage 5 : Sep 1, Guadix - Lorca, 198.8 km

1 Tyler Farrar (USA) Garmin-Transitions 5.03.36
2 Koldo Fernandez De Larrea (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi
3 Mark Cavendish (GBr) Team HTC-Columbia
4 Matteo Tosatto (Ita) Quick Step
5 Alessandro Petacchi (Ita) Lampre-Farnese Vini
6 Sebastien Chavanel (Fra) FDJ
7 Robert Forster (Ger) Team Milram
8 Denis Galimzyanov (Rus) Team Katusha
9 Theo Bos (Ned) Cervelo Test Team
10 Greg Van Avermaet (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto


Changes in GC, stage 5 compared to stage 4 :

Biggest gainers by position :
+8 Mauricio Ardila
+7 Koldo Fernandez De Larrea
+6 Jorge Montenegro
+6 David Gutierrez Gutierrez
+5 Theo Bos
+5 Simon Gerrans
+5 Sebastien Chavanel
+5 Robert Forster
+5 Nick Nuyens
+5 Matthew Wilson

Biggest losers by position :
-37 Christophe Riblon
-18 Mickael Delage
-16 Hayden Roulston
-16 Matthew Goss
-15 David Millar
-14 Olivier Kaisen
-14 Oscar Pujol
-12 Amets Txurruka
-12 Benat Intxausti
-12 Frederik Willems
-10 Dominik Klemme

Biggest gainers by time :
+0:20 Tyler Farrar
+0:12 Koldo Fernandez De Larrea
+0:08 Mark Cavendish
+0:06 Pierre Rolland
+0:06 David Gutierrez Gutierrez

Biggest losers by time :
-6:36 Christophe Riblon
-5:58 Oscar Pujol
-5:52 Jose Vicente Toribio
-4:28 Amets Txurruka
-4:28 Benat Intxausti
-4:28 Matthew Goss
-4:28 Mickael Delage
-4:28 Olivier Kaisen
-4:22 Arnaud Labbe
-3:35 David Millar
-3:35 David Zabriskie

Favourites by position :
+4 Allan Davis
+1 Roman Kreuziger
-1 David Arroyo

Favourites by time :
-3:35 David Zabriskie

Top 10 and favourites GC standings (previous stage in parens) :
1 Philippe Gilbert 19:00:06 (unchanged)
2 Igor Anton 0:10 (unchanged)
3 Joaquin Rodriguez 0:10 (unchanged)
4 Vincenzo Nibali 0:12 (unchanged)
5 Peter Velits 0:16 (unchanged)
6 Tejay Van Garderen 0:29 (unchanged)
7 Xavier Tondo 0:49 (unchanged)
8 Frank Schleck 0:50 (unchanged)
9 Ruben Plaza 0:54 (unchanged)
10 Ezequiel Mosquera 0:55 (unchanged)
.....
13 David Arroyo 1:01 (was 12th at 1:01)
14 Denis Menchov 1:11 (unchanged)
.....
17 Luis-Leon Sanchez 1:24 (unchanged)
.....
22 Carlos Sastre 2:15 (unchanged)
.....
36 Roman Kreuziger 3:26 (was 37th at 3:26)
.....
106 Andy Schleck 28:58 (unchanged)
107 Christian Vande Velde 29:01 (unchanged)
.....
129 Allan Davis 35:33 (was 133rd at 35:33)
.....
189 David Zabriskie 54:30 (was 189th at 50:55)

Top 10 on Points table with previous in parens:
1 Igor Anton 41 (unchanged)
2 Tyler Farrar 41 (was 9th with 16 points)
3 Philippe Gilbert 37 (was 2nd with 37 points)
4 Mark Cavendish 36 (was 6th with 20 points)
5 Joaquin Rodriguez 34 (was 3rd with 34 points)
6 Vincenzo Nibali 34 (was 4th with 34 points)
7 Koldo Fernandez De Larrea 30 (was 17th with 10 points)
8 Yauheni Hutarovich 29 (was 5th with 25 points)
9 Alessandro Petacchi 26 (was 12th with 14 points)
10 Nicolas Roche 18 (was 7th with 18 points)

Top 10 on Mountains table with previous in parens:
1 Serafin Martinez 13 (unchanged)
2 Dario Cataldo 8 (unchanged)
3 David Moncoutie 6 (unchanged)
4 Xavier Tondo 5 (was 0 points)
5 Niki Terpstra 5 (unchanged)
6 Egoi Martinez 5 (unchanged)
7 Sergio Carrasco 5 (unchanged)
8 Mickael Delage 3 (unchanged)
9 Luis-Leon Sanchez 3 (unchanged)
10 Mikael Cherel 2 (unchanged)

Retirements to date : Stage
Bernhard Eisel (Aut) Team HTC-Columbia 4
Benjamin Swift (GBR) Team Sky 3
John-Lee Augustyn (RSA) Team Sky 3
Arkaitz Duran (Spa) Footon-Servetto 2
Mickael Buffaz (Fra) Cofidis, le credit en ligne 2
Total retirements : 5


(This report can also be seen at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rvmartin2)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Farrar out-kicked Cavendish!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5147fe906d8681d4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 12:02 pm
From: Bob Martin


in 644248 20100901 194155 LawBoy01 <philip@pwm-law.com> wrote:
>On Sep 1, 1:36=A0pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
>> "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" wrote:
>> > On Sep 1, 12:43=A0pm, LawBoy01 <phi...@pwm-law.com> wrote:
>> > > On Sep 1, 12:17=A0pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wro=
>te:
>>
>> > > > LawBoy01 wrote:
>> > > > > Awesome job at the Vuelta today. =A0Does anybody know how many ti=
>mes
>> > > > > Farrar has beaten Cavendish in a sprint finish now? =A0My guess i=
>s more
>> > > > > than this time, but fewer than five.
>>
>> > > > The Vuelta is =A0a vacation race for the Caveman. =A0Only the Tour =
>matters.
>>
>> > > > Try to pay attention.
>>
>> > > > Magilla
>>
>> > > Can either of you wizards answer the question of how many times Farra=
>r
>> > > has beaten Cavendish in a bunch sprint?
>>
>> > I'd say twice, Today and in Tirennio.
>>
>> The Vuelta is only important to cyclists who want to bang Spanish chicks =
>with
>> hairy armpits.
>>
>> Magilla- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>If you mean that the Vuelta needs to change its position on the
>calendar, then yeah I would agree with you.

It already has - it used to be the first.


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 1:14 pm
From: "Beloved Fred No. 1"


Magilla Gorilla wrote:
>> The Vuelta is only important to cyclists who want to bang Spanish chicks with
>> hairy armpits.

LawBoy01 wrote:
> If you mean that the Vuelta needs to change its position on the
> calendar, then yeah I would agree with you.

I expect it would be cheaper to buy razors for the Spanish chicks.
Perhaps you should do their pussies too while you're about it.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 2:42 pm
From: Uncle Dave


On Sep 1, 7:36 pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > On Sep 1, 12:43 pm, LawBoy01 <phi...@pwm-law.com> wrote:
> > > On Sep 1, 12:17 pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
>
> > > > LawBoy01 wrote:
> > > > > Awesome job at the Vuelta today.  Does anybody know how many times
> > > > > Farrar has beaten Cavendish in a sprint finish now?  My guess is more
> > > > > than this time, but fewer than five.
>
> > > > The Vuelta is  a vacation race for the Caveman.  Only the Tour matters.
>
> > > > Try to pay attention.
>
> > > > Magilla
>
> > > Can either of you wizards answer the question of how many times Farrar
> > > has beaten Cavendish in a bunch sprint?
>
> > I'd say twice, Today and in Tirennio.
>
> The Vuelta is only important to cyclists who want to bang Spanish chicks with
> hairy armpits.

And the Tour is only important to those who can't think of something
better to do in July. Like go to the beach, curl up in the garden
with a good book, bury the cat,that kind of thing. June to September
is the silly season in cycling, fuck all of note happens then.

UD

==============================================================================
TOPIC: McIlvain to Grand Jury
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/b6528d722cbca9af?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 12:11 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"


Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in
> Lance is probably busy all day today trying to call Barack Obama on his
> cell
> phone to get Attorney General Holder fired unless he shuts down the
> investigation. That's the way Lance thinks the world works. And for the
> most
> part he is right because the people he calls are pussies who bend over
> backwards to accommodate LA when he calls (i.e. Sean Tucker firing Andreu
> and
> Bahati firing Landis).

You've got to be kidding. You think Bahati had to be coerced by Lance to
fire Landis, after the stuff Landis pulled? Let's see, he fleeced the guy
and his friends out of a boatload of money on a crusade to prove his
"innocence" and then he goes off on a wild crusade telling everyone he and
the rest of the world were doping big-time and not once, to my knowledge,
apologizing for misleading people and stealing their money.

Did it occur to you that maybe Bahati had had enough? Maybe he came to his
senses and realized he'd been taken for a ride and it was time to get a
life? No, that doesn't fit into the Lance-is-God scenario. Amazing how much
Lance has people here feeling threatened, weak & insignificant. Around every
corner is Lance's shadow. Incredible.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
news:4C7E82A2.8E6D11A4@sandiegozoo.org...
> BLafferty wrote:
>
>> She has a serious problem.
>>
>> http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lance-armstrong-20100902,0,2458173.story
>
> Actually - I don't think Stephanie McIlvain has the legal problem...she
> will
> likely testify that she heard LA say he doped that day in that Indiana
> hospital
> room. They won't go after her unless she lies.
>
> The people with the problem are the people at Oakley who suborned perjury
> in
> the SCA case by compelling McIlvain to sign a false affidavit on the
> threat of
> firing her from Oakley, which McIlvain needed to help her son who I
> believe has
> some type of medial condition which forced her to rely on her company's
> health
> insurance.
>
> My understanding is Oakley bosses basically said to McIlvain, "If you make
> Lance look bad, you're done." And I also think McIlvain's husband works
> for
> Oakley too and his job might have been in jeopardy as well.
>
> Lance is probably busy all day today trying to call Barack Obama on his
> cell
> phone to get Attorney General Holder fired unless he shuts down the
> investigation. That's the way Lance thinks the world works. And for the
> most
> part he is right because the people he calls are pussies who bend over
> backwards to accommodate LA when he calls (i.e. Sean Tucker firing Andreu
> and
> Bahati firing Landis).
>
> I heard Lance even tried to get Andreu fired from Versus but Versus backed
> out
> once they got wind the media found out. Otherwise they probably would
> have
> fired him too.
>
> That whole thing with Lance trying to kiss and make-up with Frankie last
> year
> was basically a reverse psychology move by LA's team of thugs to see if
> they
> could get Betsy to stop digging her cat claws into Lance's back given all
> the
> blogs and newsgroup postings she made over the years. The chick is a
> one-girl
> wrecking crew and from what I've read, she ain't no pussy.
>
> In fact, if Lance called 95% of you faggots in here, you would all do
> exactly
> as he says because you're all pussies.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Magilla
>

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 1:15 pm
From: Magilla Gorilla


Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

> Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in
> > Lance is probably busy all day today trying to call Barack Obama on his
> > cell
> > phone to get Attorney General Holder fired unless he shuts down the
> > investigation. That's the way Lance thinks the world works. And for the
> > most
> > part he is right because the people he calls are pussies who bend over
> > backwards to accommodate LA when he calls (i.e. Sean Tucker firing Andreu
> > and
> > Bahati firing Landis).
>
> You've got to be kidding. You think Bahati had to be coerced by Lance to
> fire Landis, after the stuff Landis pulled? Let's see, he fleeced the guy
> and his friends out of a boatload of money on a crusade to prove his
> "innocence"

It was the Fraud Fairness Fund, not the Fraud Innocence Fund. Bahati knew that
when he hired him and Bahati even commented that it was good that he came clean.
Bahati was quoted as saying he was upset that Landis "threw others under the bus"
which is an admission that Bahati favors the Omerta of doping, which is not
exactly something to be proud of. So that's not why Buckwheat fired Landis.
Bahati fired Landis after he got the infamous cell phone call from Lance. That's
Lance's m.o. He probably tried to pull that same shit with the bouncer in Austin
who didn't let him take a beer outside. Google it.

LA also did that with Frankie Andreu, and Prentice Steffan @ Garmin. The dude is
a thug and thinks he's the fucking mob or something. Let's see him pull that shit
with the feds and see how far he gets.


> and then he goes off on a wild crusade telling everyone he and
> the rest of the world were doping big-time and not once, to my knowledge,
> apologizing for misleading people and stealing their money.

He did apologize. And his "wild crusade" is nothing but the truth, so why not
call it a "truth" crusade instead of a "wild" crusade? You know it's the truth,
dude.


>
>
> Did it occur to you that maybe Bahati had had enough?

Enough of what? Bahati fired Landis because as an Uncle Tom he will always do
whatever whities in power like Lance tell him to do. The guy can't think for
himself. That's why he started a team with no sponsors which folded 3 months
later...almost as bad as fucking Noble House.

> Maybe he came to his
> senses and realized he'd been taken for a ride and it was time to get a
> life?

Yeah, right after he got the phone call from Lance...what a coincidence.

> No, that doesn't fit into the Lance-is-God scenario. Amazing how much
> Lance has people here feeling threatened, weak & insignificant. Around every
> corner is Lance's shadow. Incredible.

It is incredible that more people don't stand up to him....except for Frankie..and
Betsy..and Landis...and Simeoni....and Stephan Swart...and Emma O'Reilly...and
Greg Lemon D...and probably a lot more once they get done with grand jury
testimony.

Stay tuned, baby cakes. This tune ain't over.


Magilla
aka "Baretta"


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fignon Passes
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c99538b65106857d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 12:26 pm
From: Randall


On Aug 31, 5:21 am, BLafferty <Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> RIP.

Fignon in my mind was a great rider, but after his 2 consecutive TDF
wins he never lived up to his potential. I think it's possible that
Fignon could have won another The 89 TDF was probably won of the most
exciting TDF's I have seen. No 2 riders were probably as equally
matched.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: RadioShat to end sponsorship in 2011
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/d295ccc6887b04b8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 12:52 pm
From: Magilla Gorilla


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/phinney-considering-his-career-options-for-2011


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Things Really Hitting the Shitter for LANCE
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a32d1cbb49f1824a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 12:59 pm
From: "Beloved Fred No. 1"


Magilla Gorilla wrote:

Fred Flintstein wrote:
> You're not exactly at the top of your game today.

He caught that stomach bug that Sky had from a rotten banana.


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 1:00 pm
From: "Beloved Fred No. 1"


On 09/01/10 19:10, cailing0322 wrote:
> This is an outstanding site.

One day h**2 will start posting porn links again.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Laurent Fignon in pictures
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/9fec60eefeaf535a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 1:04 pm
From: "Beloved Fred No. 1"


RicodJour wrote:
>> You mean Jim's basing it solely on looks?
>> Or my favorite from Bachelor Party, Monique Gabrielle.

Amit Ghosh wrote:
> i did a search on her and her last movie was "Planet of the Erotic
> Ape".
>
> i assume magilla plays himself.

With some judicious photoshopping in certain diminutive locations.


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 2:22 pm
From: Jim Feeley


On 9/1/10 9:12 AM, in article 4C7E7B52.600CE1BA@sandiegozoo.org, "Magilla
Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:

> Jim Feeley wrote:
>
>> On 8/31/10 7:10 PM, in article YfqdnYpzKPi3K-DRnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d@sti.net,
>> "Mr. Slate" <LikeFlint@NoSpammers.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Nice photos...
>>> http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/497578/laurent-fignon-1960-2010-i
>>> n-
>>> pictures.html
>>>
>>> If you said that was him, I wouldn't of known it...
>>> http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5473/Au-revoir-Professeur-a-tribute-to-Lau
>>> re
>>> nt-Fignon.aspx
>>>
>>> Nice shots, 24 photos slideshow..
>>> http://www.lequipe.fr/Portfolio/Cyclisme/PORTFOLIO_FIGNON_CARRIERE.html
>>
>> Thanks for posting those links. He was always one of my favorite riders; the
>> captions for some of those pix show why...
>>
>> Jim
>
> You're in love with Fignon in the same superficial and meaningless way men
> fall in
> love with supermodels and actresses. Go marry one and then tell me how
> fucking
> insane they are. Once their looks go they go all Tawny Kitane.
>
>
> Magilla

Neutral on his looks. What I thought was cool, though, was his leading out a
teammate on the last stage of the 84 TdF...Didn't work, but nice to see the
yellow jersey do some work on the last day. And I liked that he kept racing
after his heyday was clearly over. IIRC, he advised and worked for his
younger teammates a lot. Maybe he didn't have any other career options, but
it was kind of nice to see a grand tour winner not just bail on the sport
when he can't win again.


Jim


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is it possible?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7745c2617105c395?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 1:07 pm
From: "Beloved Fred No. 1"


On 09/01/10 18:58, Magilla Gorilla wrote:
> 90% of you people in here think Justin Bieber is just as talented as Ozzy and
> Eddie van Halen.

Who the fuck is Justin Bieber ?


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 2:32 pm
From: "Mr. Slate"


Magilla Gorilla wrote:
> "Mr. Slate" wrote:
>
>> Magilla Gorilla wrote:
>>> Is it possible for any cyclist today to look cool when they're
>>> racing since they're all wearing helmets? If you look at Fignon -
>>> his entire persona were those professor glasses and his hippie
>>> poneytail look. I'm not sure that look could exist today.
>>>
>>> If you look at the modern peloton, they all look like robotrons with
>>> their limo tint glasses and helmet heads. I just want to spit on
>>> them.
>>>
>>> I really feel sorry for any of you fuckholes who have never raced
>>> without a helmet or in toe clips. That's real bike racing and the
>>> only way to look cool on a bike.
>>>
>>> Jackasses,
>>>
>>> Magilla
>>
>> Yes, it's become very clonish. It's often impossible to tell who
>> some riders are all bundled up. With all the cool looking bikes,
>> gear and kits, the rider gets lost in the equation.
>
> Cyclists today would never look as distinctive as Fignon...they're
> all too caught up trying to emulate Justin Bieber fakes, so they
> gotta have the latest honeycomb helmet and glasses with Kryptonite
> fucking lenses that cost $258.
>
> Faggots - all of you. You and your little carbon fiber lifestyle.
>
> 90% of you people in here think Justin Bieber is just as talented as
> Ozzy and Eddie van Halen. It makes me want to hack you all to death
> with a machete and then feed your body parts to some Nile crocs.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Magilla

Ah, you mean a spin off of Juan Corona as a serial cyclist killer. When Adam
said Burn baby burn, I don't think that's what he had in mind. For the
record, I don't have any carbon, never owned or wanted it.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Babbling Brooke Miller
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/db5ce26fe3217bb9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 1:24 pm
From: Magilla Gorilla


"I'm really happy in my real-world life and so I came to the realisation
that if I'm not going to the Olympics, which is what I was training for,
then I didn't want to have a half-assed mediocre career," she added.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/miller-announces-surprise-retirement-from-womens-peloton

----

So instead she quits while having a half-assed mediocre career.

And don't kid yourself, Brooke Miller was never going to qualify for the
Olympics because she wasn't even invited to the worlds teams for the
past 2 years. And her national road championship wins were done without
the entire Olympic women's team being present on what everyone knows was
essentially a crit course in Irvine, Calif.

The girl is delusional about her abilities if the only thing in cycling
for her were the Olympics then that's one fucked up motivation. Last
person who talked like that was Jeff Evanshine. The Olympics is a
gay-ass event (for cycling at least).

Watch, next year she will announce she is un-retiring.

Magilla


==============================================================================
TOPIC: What about cyclists like us?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/548f19907b59eaf1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 1:29 pm
From: Andre Jute


Why are we wasting time on the death of one celebrity racing cyclist,
travelling at a speed most of us will never achieve, on roads only
Jobst and Lou have ever seen?

There is plenty of data about cyclists just like us to talk about:

• Most fatal crashes (74%) involved a head injury.
• Nearly all bicyclists who died (97%) were not wearing a helmet.
• Helmet use was only 3% in fatal crashes, but 13% in non-fatal
crashes

Source:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/episrv/episrv-bike-report.pdf

That looks to me like helmets saved 33 lives of cyclists like us
riding at speeds like ours on urban streets of a type familiar to most
of us.

Andre Jute
Eventually the message will register

On Sep 1, 5:58 pm, Phil W Lee <p...@lee-family.me.uk> wrote:
> Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> considered Tue, 31 Aug 2010 22:52:21
> -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:
>
> >On Aug 31, 10:14 pm, Frank Krygowski <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Aug 31, 6:46 pm, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > I googled "Casartelli" looking for examples of the "nonsense claims"
> >> > you mention.  At Wikipedia I found:
>
> >> > "Many have claimed if Casartelli had been wearing a modern bicycle
> >> > helmet his life might have been saved."
>
> >> Which is nonsense.  The collision was at a speed no bike helmet could
> >> handle.  Surely you don't think these things are good for 45mph into
> >> solid concrete, do you??
>
> >My dictionary says the word "might" is "used to indicate a possibility
> >or probability that is weaker than may:  We might discover a pot of
> >gold at the end of the rainbow"
>
> >What do you mean "handle", anyway?  All we know is that hitting his
> >head without a helmet killed him.  It is entirely possible that a
> >helmet could have attenuated and/or deflected and/or otherwise altered
> >the forces enough to change the outcome.  A longshot?  Probably -
> >*almost* certainly - but still possible.
>
> Only if you seriously believe that helmets have some kind of magic
> fairy dust used in their manufacture.
>
>
>
> >> > ... and:
>
> >> > "Disteldorf added that had Casartelli been wearing a hard helmet 'some
> >> > injuries could have been avoided'."
>
> >> "Some injuries"?  I don't doubt the truth of that, but I very much
> >> doubt its practicality.  No matter what minor injuries it may have
> >> prevented, it would certainly not prevent his death.
>
> >"Minor injuries"?  Where did you get that?
>
> The only injuries that a cycle helmet could have prevented or
> mitigated in that kind of incident would be the minor ones, not the
> ones which killed him.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Certainly"?  Others are saying "might" and could".  You are the only
> >one saying "would".
>
> >> > The next hit,http://www.bhsi.org/timesart.htm,  offered:
>
> >> > "Fabio Casartelli may not have died if he had been wearing a helmet."
>
> >> > I know this kind of stuff makes *you* see red, but "nonsense"?  I'm
> >> > not finding anyone saying "a certified-for-14-mph helmet would have
> >> > saved him".
>
> >> > Can you please cite some of the "nonsense claims" to which you refer?
>
> >> Dan, there's no need for me to cite those nonsense claims.  You've
> >> just done that.
>
> >You said, "There were - and still are - claims that a certified-for-14-
> >mph helmet would have saved him."
>
> >Cite, please, or retract.
>
> What else would a "modern bicycle helmet" be but one certified to
> modern standards?
>
> >> Because of your faith, you don't recognize the nonsense - but it's
> >> still nonsense.  In a direct hit between a concrete pillar and a
> >> person's head at over 45 mph, a certified-for-14-mph helmet is simply
> >> not going to make a difference!  Anybody believing it will is either a
> >> helmet fundamentalist, or a dishonest helmet promoter.  Or both.
>
> >Talk about a fundamentalist.
>
> There's nothing wrong with a desire for accuracy.
> I'm far more concerned that fantasists seem to wish for everyone else
> to share in their fantasies.


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 2:14 pm
From: Plano Dude


On Sep 1, 3:29 pm, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Why are we wasting time on the death of one celebrity racing cyclist,
> travelling at a speed most of us will never achieve, on roads only
> Jobst and Lou have ever seen?
>
> There is plenty of data about cyclists just like us to talk about:
>
> • Most fatal crashes (74%) involved a head injury.
> • Nearly all bicyclists who died (97%) were not wearing a helmet.
> • Helmet use was only 3% in fatal crashes, but 13% in non-fatal
> crashes
>
> Source:http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/episrv/episrv-bike-report.pdf
>
> That looks to me like helmets saved 33 lives of cyclists like us
> riding at speeds like ours on urban streets of a type familiar to most
> of us.
>
> Andre Jute
> Eventually the message will register
>
> On Sep 1, 5:58 pm, Phil W Lee <p...@lee-family.me.uk> wrote:
>
> > Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> considered Tue, 31 Aug 2010 22:52:21
> > -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:
>
> > >On Aug 31, 10:14 pm, Frank Krygowski <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> On Aug 31, 6:46 pm, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > I googled "Casartelli" looking for examples of the "nonsense claims"
> > >> > you mention.  At Wikipedia I found:
>
> > >> > "Many have claimed if Casartelli had been wearing a modern bicycle
> > >> > helmet his life might have been saved."
>
> > >> Which is nonsense.  The collision was at a speed no bike helmet could
> > >> handle.  Surely you don't think these things are good for 45mph into
> > >> solid concrete, do you??
>
> > >My dictionary says the word "might" is "used to indicate a possibility
> > >or probability that is weaker than may:  We might discover a pot of
> > >gold at the end of the rainbow"
>
> > >What do you mean "handle", anyway?  All we know is that hitting his
> > >head without a helmet killed him.  It is entirely possible that a
> > >helmet could have attenuated and/or deflected and/or otherwise altered
> > >the forces enough to change the outcome.  A longshot?  Probably -
> > >*almost* certainly - but still possible.
>
> > Only if you seriously believe that helmets have some kind of magic
> > fairy dust used in their manufacture.
>
> > >> > ... and:
>
> > >> > "Disteldorf added that had Casartelli been wearing a hard helmet 'some
> > >> > injuries could have been avoided'."
>
> > >> "Some injuries"?  I don't doubt the truth of that, but I very much
> > >> doubt its practicality.  No matter what minor injuries it may have
> > >> prevented, it would certainly not prevent his death.
>
> > >"Minor injuries"?  Where did you get that?
>
> > The only injuries that a cycle helmet could have prevented or
> > mitigated in that kind of incident would be the minor ones, not the
> > ones which killed him.
>
> > >"Certainly"?  Others are saying "might" and could".  You are the only
> > >one saying "would".
>
> > >> > The next hit,http://www.bhsi.org/timesart.htm,  offered:
>
> > >> > "Fabio Casartelli may not have died if he had been wearing a helmet."
>
> > >> > I know this kind of stuff makes *you* see red, but "nonsense"?  I'm
> > >> > not finding anyone saying "a certified-for-14-mph helmet would have
> > >> > saved him".
>
> > >> > Can you please cite some of the "nonsense claims" to which you refer?
>
> > >> Dan, there's no need for me to cite those nonsense claims.  You've
> > >> just done that.
>
> > >You said, "There were - and still are - claims that a certified-for-14-
> > >mph helmet would have saved him."
>
> > >Cite, please, or retract.
>
> > What else would a "modern bicycle helmet" be but one certified to
> > modern standards?
>
> > >> Because of your faith, you don't recognize the nonsense - but it's
> > >> still nonsense.  In a direct hit between a concrete pillar and a
> > >> person's head at over 45 mph, a certified-for-14-mph helmet is simply
> > >> not going to make a difference!  Anybody believing it will is either a
> > >> helmet fundamentalist, or a dishonest helmet promoter.  Or both.
>
> > >Talk about a fundamentalist.
>
> > There's nothing wrong with a desire for accuracy.
> > I'm far more concerned that fantasists seem to wish for everyone else
> > to share in their fantasies.

There is no "us". You don't speak for anyone but yourself, so fuck off.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 2:38 pm
From: Uncle Dave


On Sep 1, 9:29 pm, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:

<snip>
>
> > There's nothing wrong with a desire for accuracy.
> > I'm far more concerned that fantasists seem to wish for everyone else
> > to share in their fantasies.
>
>

You failed to quote the really telling statistic from the report -
"Nearly all bicyclist fatalities (92%) occurred as a result of crashes
with motor vehicles". You place yourself in dodgy company. There was
an asshole here in the UK who, failing to watch where he was going,
killed a cyclist and then had the timerity to start a campaign to make
wearing of helmets mandatory. Faced with such stupidity and denial,
it's no wonder that cyclists are less than enamoured when somebody
starts lecturing them about wearing helmets. Helmets aren't the
problem, car drivers are.

UD


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