Friday, September 3, 2010

RE: Medarticles Request for book

Buzz It

Thanx Anand
Do you have previous version?

eyup yayci md

 






From: anandkumarreddy@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 15:26:58 +0530
Subject: Re: Medarticles Request for book
To: medarticles@googlegroups.com

4th Ed. Not available

anand

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 11:50 PM, Eyup Yayci Hotmail <eyupyayci@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi !
 
 
Does anyone have  this book please ?
 
 
Mechanical Ventilation, 4th Edition
by Susan P. Pilbeam , MS , RRT , FAARC and J. M. Cairo , PhD , RRT & FAARC
ISBN: 9780323032360 | Copyright 2006 | Paperback
 
 


__________ ESET Smart Security Akýllý Güvenlik tarafýndan saðlanan bilgiler, virüs imza veritabaný sürümü: 5412 (20100831) __________

Ýleti ESET Smart Security Akýllý Güvenlik tarafýndan denetlendi.

http://www.nod32.com.tr

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5686 School files complaint on illegal confinement of students

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School files complaint on illegal confinement of students
http://sify.com/news/school-files-complaint-on-illegal-confinement-of-students-news-education-kjdr4cfcgid.html
2010-09-03 17:30:00


St John's High School, one of the oldest schools here for boys, has
lodged a complaint against two people, including a state official, for
illegally confining five minor students and forcing them to record
statements against the school management, police said Friday.

The school authorities filed the complaint against Punjab Civil
Services officer T.K. Goyal - whose son was earlier studying in the
school - and Rohtas Sanghwan - a former employee of the school.


The school accused Goyal of calling five students to the house of a
former student, Gautam, at Ram Darbar, a suburb here.


'Goyal tried to bribe innocent children by offering them monetary help
and other aids. He told them to speak against the school management on
camera. Thereafter, the students filed a complaint against the school
and we were left with no other option than to approach the police,' a
school official said.


'Earlier also, Sanghwan and Goyal had lodged frivolous complaints
against the school. But this time, they crossed all limits as they
tried to corrupt the minds of children,' he added.


S.S. Srivastava, senior superintendent of police, Chandigarh, said the
police had received a complaint from the school.


Last year, Goyal had accused an arts teacher of the school for
corrupting the minds of students by showing them vulgar websites and
for insisting that they join adult social networking sites.


St John's High School, established in 1959, is up to class 10. Around
2,000 boys study there.


Congress MPs like Kapil Sibal, Manish Tiwari and advisor to Chandigarh
administration Pardeep Mehra are among its alumni.

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5684 Honeymoon for officers deputed in Chandigarh over

Buzz It
Honeymoon for officers deputed in Chandigarh over
http://igovernment.in/site/honeymoon-officers-deputed-chandigarh-over-38322

Bureaucrats deputed in the city will no longer be getting extensions
beyond their permissible tenures
Published on 09/03/2010
By Hemant Singh

Chandigarh: According to instructions issued by the Ministry of Home
Affairs (MHA) to Chandigarh administration, bureaucrats deputed in the
city will no longer be getting extensions beyond their permissible
tenures.

This means none of the IAS officers including Home Secretary, Finance
Secretary, Chandigarh Housing Board Chairman and other officers
holding the charge of secretaries, presently on deputation to
Chandigarh Administration, will be entitled to any extension.

"The latest decision has been prompted by the controversies, like the
irregularities in mega projects and land-grabbing charges, in which a
number of bureaucrats have been involved or named. All these
bureaucrats got extension against their requisite tenures during the
regime of former UT Administrator-cum-Punjab SF Rodrigues," a source
in the Punjab Raj Bhawan said.

"Even UT Administrator-cum-Punjab Governor Shivraj V Patil has also
issued stern instructions not to allow any proposal of seeking
extensions for any IAS officer. He wants an end to the practice," the
source added.

According to the rules, the request for extension of an IAS officer is
routed through Punjab Raj Bhawan to the Ministry of Home Affairs,
based on which the MHA grants or refuses the said extension.

Recently, Finance Secretary Sanjay Kumar, a Punjab cadre IAS officer,
was not granted extension; his tenure ends in December. For his
replacement, the Chandigarh Administration had already sought a fresh
panel of officers. Home Secretary Ram Niwas' tenure ends in September
2011.

The practice of giving extension was very much in vogue during the
Rodrigues' tenure. It was on January 12, 2008, Rodrigues had
personally wrote to the Prime Minister, seeking an extension of two
years for Haryana cadre IAS officer Krishan Mohan, who was the then UT
Home Secretary

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:5684 Trial run of e-Passport centres begins

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Trial run of e-Passport centres begins
http://igovernment.in/site/trial-run-e-passport-centres-begins-38324

Chandigarh, Ambala and Ludhiana based passport centres have begun
trial run of the project
Published on 09/03/2010 - 07:15:13 AM
Chandigarh: With the trial run of e-Passport centres beginning at
Chandigarh, Ambala and Ludhiana, the central government has set the
ball rolling for the implementation of an ambitious project of
computerised passport service centres across the country.

With an aim to streamline the issuance of passports, the central
government plans to open around 77 such centres in various states. The
existing 37 regional passport centres will act as headquarters for the
new centres.

"In the first phase, three states in the north and three in the south
have been identified for establishing the centres. In the south, new
passport centres have started functioning in Bangalore, Mangalore and
Hubli. Three in the north have been recently set up and the trial run
has begun," Ministry of External Affairs Joint Secretary A Manickam
said.

The seven pilot projects are being run for three months and in the
meantime, the government is finalising the list of states where other
centres need to come up.

The Rs 1,000 crore projects will be implemented on a build-own-operate
and transfer model made by TCS.

These new fully computerised centres will not only provide online
access to applications to Indian citizens, but also de-clog the
overburdened passport centres that process the millions of
applications every year.

These new centres will ensure an applicant gets a passport within
three days of applying and within 24 hours under the Tatkal scheme,
Manickam added.

To make people aware of the new system, the government has published
advertisements in various medium asking them to fill applications
online.

While the government rolls out the new system, old applications will
be processed through the existing system.

The menace of fake passports will also be curbed as finger prints of
the applicants will be procured at the centres so that one applicant
is issued only one passport.

STQC, which is Department of Information and Technology's third-party
audit agency, is testing the new project in relation to the security
concerns.

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

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rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Where was the post about Cervelo disbanding ? - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/aba0e2f4563789e9?hl=en
* In a Muslim Country - Andre Jute would stone women - 7 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/45b175d2fcae8084?hl=en
* Today is 20th Anniversary of John Frey's 47:35 40K in MoriartyNew Mexico - 4
messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/cba9a2ba200acaf6?hl=en
* Pursuit Record Falls at Frisco Velodrome ! - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/19f2c7ca91e3cb87?hl=en
* Vuelta a Espana, stage 7 summary - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8efb7b2c5d392075?hl=en
* OT: Australia - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/ce3b49b69f904254?hl=en
* Why are the AHZ lying? - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/429ffb24ca0c4a7e?hl=en
* Fatty Masters National Championships in Frisco this week - 3 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/29dcebe0940ad055?hl=en
* My book by Floyd - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7b113bd3f00b2f24?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where was the post about Cervelo disbanding ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/aba0e2f4563789e9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 1:19 pm
From: Michael Press


In article <tNOdnW-YJZiP2RzRnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:

> Plus it will be fun to ask Americans to find Luxemborg on a map.

It is between Monaco and San Marino.

--
Michael Press


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 2:18 pm
From: Carl Sundquist


On Sep 3, 1:53 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
> "Fredmaster of Brainerd" <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:eb5d17a1-23fe-4247-a0e8-a3b020b05ae4@h37g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 3, 4:29 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:> "raamman" <raam...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:83c6d51b-03a0-43d0-83f4-d355409cbd91@j18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > You guys are so busy 69ing each other, this ng is about bike racing
> > > you know
>
> > Nor any posts about Schlecks on Treks. Or the number of ProTour teams that
> > likely don't have a future.
>
> ============
> Cervelo disbanding was mentioned in the Thor thread.
> In general, bike manufacturers aren't big enough
> businesses to be lead sponsors of a road team,
> especially Protour.
>
> As for Schlecks on Treks, Mike, I'd think you would be a
> good candidate to explain Trek's aims with that.  They've
> been heavily identified with LANCE and US-sponsor
> teams, is this a statement that they now have enough
> identity in the European market that they see a need to
> keep sponsoring a team that races in Europe?
>
> Every year around this time there are several
> Protour teams without a future.  I don't know if this
> year is more than usual.  The economy mostly
> sucks except in Germany, AFAICT; that can't help.
>
> Fredmaster
> ===========
>
> You're spot-on.
>
> Trek wants two things. First, a spot at the top of the podium, or at least a
> darned good run at it. And second, absolutely they want that euro buy-in.
> Lance actually did surprisingly well in that regard, but it's time to move
> on. 2009 was phenomenal, 2010 was a tour too far. There are no more huge
> American cycling phenoms on the horizon (well, OK, Phinney is huge,  but his
> future is in the classics, not stage races). The Schlecks bring a new (and
> much larger than I expected) fan base to Trek.
>
> Plus it will be fun to ask Americans to find Luxemborg on a map.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Don't forget Trek sponsored the LANCEless Astana in 2007 and 2008.

Replace the word Phinney with Armstrong (for the same age).


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 5:06 pm
From: Amit Ghosh


On Sep 3, 2:26 am, raamman <raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You guys are so busy 69ing each other, this ng is about bike racing
> you know

dumbass,

everyone read it on cyclingnews.

what is there to discuss ?

nothing apparently.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: In a Muslim Country - Andre Jute would stone women
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/45b175d2fcae8084?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 2:23 pm
From: Jimmy July


On 09/03/2010 08:14 AM, Anton Berlin wrote:
> There's no difference between Andre Jute wanting to control the
> behaviors of others in Usenet groups than the Islamic radicals that
> stone women or throw acid on them for infidelity or sometimes just
> falling in love with someone not of their choosing.

Andre is a TERRORIST?!?! I knew it!!!


== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 3:05 pm
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd


On Sep 3, 11:14 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> There's no difference between Andre Jute wanting to control the
> behaviors of others in Usenet groups than the Islamic radicals that
> stone women or throw acid on them for infidelity or sometimes just
> falling in love with someone not of their choosing.
>
> Usually this desire to control and repress others comes from massive
> internal conflict within the person wanting others to behave and think
> like they do.
>
> Why has Andre chosen 'helmet use' as a soapbox - a relatively minor
> number of people die from these accidents each year.

Dumbass,

What Il Jute wants and desperately needs is attention.

He's chosen rec.bicycles.tech for his audience, in part
because they are so willing to respond to him.
Apparently that wasn't enough, or his act was wearing
thin, so he's resorted to a double measure of desperation -
crossposting and helmet trolls. Ignoring him is the
way to keep him from getting what he wants.

Fredmaster Ben


== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 3:59 pm
From: "MikeWhy"


Anton Berlin wrote:
...
>
> Usually this desire to control and repress others comes from massive
> internal conflict within the person wanting others to behave and think
> like they do.
...
> Andre should focus on the ...
> Or maybe he should ...
> Maybe Andre should just ...
...
> Seek therapy - you will not find happiness until you learn that
> happiness comes from controlling yourself and not from trying to
> control others.

From the outside looking in, methinks Anton suffers from classic Freudian
projection.


== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 5:36 pm
From: Tom Sherman °_°


On 9/3/2010 5:59 PM, MikeWhy Who? wrote:
> Anton Berlin wrote:
> ...
>>
>> Usually this desire to control and repress others comes from massive
>> internal conflict within the person wanting others to behave and think
>> like they do.
> ...
>> Andre should focus on the ...
>> Or maybe he should ...
>> Maybe Andre should just ...
> ...
>> Seek therapy - you will not find happiness until you learn that
>> happiness comes from controlling yourself and not from trying to
>> control others.
>
> From the outside looking in, methinks Anton suffers from classic
> Freudian projection.
>
>
And you ("MikeWhy") think that the Usenet behavior of The André Jute
indicates normality?

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.


== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 6:04 pm
From: Andre Jute


You might consider a course of reading comprehension, Berlin.
I haven't told anyone to wear a helmet or not to wear a helmet. I
haven't recommended mandatory helmet laws or advised against them. All
I've done is provide honest data for people to make up their own
minds. Instead of thanking me for unbiased data, you embark on a smear
campaign. It's none of my business if you dream of stoning women. --
Andre Jute

On Sep 3, 4:14 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> There's no difference between Andre Jute wanting to control the
> behaviors of others in Usenet groups than the Islamic radicals that
> stone women or throw acid on them for infidelity or sometimes just
> falling in love with someone not of their choosing.
>
> Usually this desire to control and repress others comes from massive
> internal conflict within the person wanting others to behave and think
> like they do.
>
> Why has Andre chosen 'helmet use' as a soapbox - a relatively minor
> number of people die from these accidents each year.
>
> Andre should focus on the deaths caused by the use of tobacco - or
> research the number of deaths caused by bacon and mayonnaise and then
> devote his time and energies to protecting us from these far greater
> evils.
>
> Or maybe he should look in the mirror - place himself in that dusty
> uncivilized middle eastern village and imagine himself hurling a stone
> at a woman that didn't follow his idea of how things should be.
>
> Do these men feel better after having 'controlled another human'   -
> do you feel good about the parallels Andre?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QovlOJycBw
>
> Maybe Andre should just do as all wise men have done and consider the
> golden rule - would he want someone else deciding that he couldn't
> wear a helmet?
>
> It's a choice Andre - I wear a helmet every time I ride - not because
> you want me too but because I feel safer with one on.  But having in
> ridden in countries where 'helmets are required' or 'gum chewing is
> not allowed' - yes they are such places.... my first instinct is to
> stuff my mouth with double mint and ride down the streets with the
> wind in my hair.
>
> You annoy people that wear helmets Andre.  And you annoy people that
> choose not to wear helmets.
>
> The end result - you are annoying to everyone.  (and I have a strong
> suspicion it's not just helmets with you )
>
> Seek therapy - you will not find happiness until you learn that
> happiness comes from controlling yourself and not from trying to
> control others.  You will never accomplish the latter - no one ever
> has.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 6:11 pm
From: Andre Jute


On Sep 4, 1:36 am, Tom Sherman °_°
<twshermanREM...@THISsouthslope.net> wrote:
> On 9/3/2010 5:59 PM, MikeWhy Who? wrote:
>
>
>
> > Anton Berlin wrote:
> > ...
>
> >> Usually this desire to control and repress others comes from massive
> >> internal conflict within the person wanting others to behave and think
> >> like they do.
> > ...
> >> Andre should focus on the ...
> >> Or maybe he should ...
> >> Maybe Andre should just ...
> > ...
> >> Seek therapy - you will not find happiness until you learn that
> >> happiness comes from controlling yourself and not from trying to
> >> control others.
>
> >  From the outside looking in, methinks Anton suffers from classic
> > Freudian projection.
>
> And you ("MikeWhy") think that the Usenet behavior of The André Jute
> indicates normality?
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
> I am a vehicular cyclist.

I'll leave this little jerk to you, Mike. Since I'm a psychologist, it
would be an unfair contest for me to bitch-slap him upside the face
with Krech et al. -- AJ


== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 6:19 pm
From: Tom Sherman °_°


On 9/3/2010 8:11 PM, The André Jute wrote:
> On Sep 4, 1:36 am, Tom Sherman °_°
> <twshermanREM...@THISsouthslope.net> wrote:
>> On 9/3/2010 5:59 PM, MikeWhy Who? wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Anton Berlin wrote:
>>> ...
>>
>>>> Usually this desire to control and repress others comes from massive
>>>> internal conflict within the person wanting others to behave and think
>>>> like they do.
>>> ...
>>>> Andre should focus on the ...
>>>> Or maybe he should ...
>>>> Maybe Andre should just ...
>>> ...
>>>> Seek therapy - you will not find happiness until you learn that
>>>> happiness comes from controlling yourself and not from trying to
>>>> control others.
>>
>>> From the outside looking in, methinks Anton suffers from classic
>>> Freudian projection.
>>
>> And you ("MikeWhy") think that the Usenet behavior of The André Jute
>> indicates normality?
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
>> I am a vehicular cyclist.
>
Please honor the signature separator (i.e. "-- ").

> I'll leave this little jerk to you, Mike. Since I'm a psychologist, it
> would be an unfair contest for me to bitch-slap him upside the face
> with Krech et al. -- AJ

<yawn> [1]

[1] For André Jute and Michael Press, this is NOT a quote of previously
posted text.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Today is 20th Anniversary of John Frey's 47:35 40K in MoriartyNew
Mexico
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/cba9a2ba200acaf6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 2:52 pm
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd


On Sep 3, 10:50 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > The reason that the records have never been broken is that shortly
> > after they were set, the road was resurfaced using chip seal.  What
> > used to be an incredibly smooth road is now rough and not really
> > suitable for record breaking efforts.  It's just that simple, the road
> > is slow now.
>
> "This is a national tragedy - not a single smooth road anywhere in the
> United States in the last 20 years !   The Russkies are getting ahead
> of us -  we must not allow a smooth road gap !!!! "
>
> Anton 'Strangelove' Berlin

Moriarty NM is at 6000 feet, but you knew that. Probably all
the roads at 5000 feet in Colorado now have subdivisions
off them and are no longer usable for bike races.

I wonder if there's some good road outside Flagstaff AZ.
Probably not with good pavement though.

Fredmaster Ben


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 4:06 pm
From: Scott


On Sep 3, 8:50 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > The reason that the records have never been broken is that shortly
> > after they were set, the road was resurfaced using chip seal.  What
> > used to be an incredibly smooth road is now rough and not really
> > suitable for record breaking efforts.  It's just that simple, the road
> > is slow now.
>
> "This is a national tragedy - not a single smooth road anywhere in the
> United States in the last 20 years !   The Russkies are getting ahead
> of us -  we must not allow a smooth road gap !!!! "
>
> Anton 'Strangelove' Berlin

Dumbass,

Moriarty was, back in the day, the perfect place for a TT record
attempt. Super smooth road, pancake flat, perfectly aligned to take
advantage of prevailing winds, and high enough elevation to reduce
wind resistance but not so high as to affect performance. Sort of the
'perfect storm' of TT venues.

Take any part of that away and it becomes just another road. Chip
seal ruined it for future record attempts. Sure, if Indurain or
Rominger or Boardman or even Armstrong in their prime had come there,
they probably would've beaten Frey's record, IF they'd come before the
chip seal.


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 4:09 pm
From: Brad Anders


On Sep 3, 2:52 pm, Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I wonder if there's some good road outside Flagstaff AZ.
> Probably not with good pavement though.

Lake Mary Road is pretty good, but isn't dead-flat by a long shot.

Brad Anders


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 7:07 pm
From: Fred on a stick


On 9/3/2010 4:06 PM, Scott wrote:

> Moriarty was, back in the day, the perfect place for a TT record
> attempt. Super smooth road, pancake flat, perfectly aligned to take
> advantage of prevailing winds, and high enough elevation to reduce
> wind resistance but not so high as to affect performance. Sort of the
> 'perfect storm' of TT venues.

Moriarty is pancake flat, but pancakes aren't that flat -- I can detect
the slope with VE (about 32 meters over 18 km). Anyway, the NCNCA TT
course in Sattley, CA just got resurfaced. It's a tad lower (5000 ft)
but the surface is like buttah.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pursuit Record Falls at Frisco Velodrome !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/19f2c7ca91e3cb87?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 4:10 pm
From: Scott


On Sep 2, 11:07 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote in message
>
> news:yPCdnSMXheV55R3RnZ2dnUVZ_q-dnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> : "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> :news:i5pktg$g99$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> : >
> : > "Anton Berlin" <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> : >news:259126e6-f025-49f9-8768-c427f8d070a0@x42g2000yqx.googlegroups.com...
> : > : In the 75+ age group Richard Simons set a new record yesterday.
> : >
> : >
> : >
> : >
> : > Dumbass -
> : >
> : > From a fitness standpoint, riding a bike @ 75 years old sounds
> : > attractive
> : > until one considers: crashing.
> : >
> : > People whom are that old have a tendency to break if they fall down in
> : > their
> : > living room.
> : >
> : > A college friend of mine's 70 year old stepfather died in a solo
> : > crash.
> : > Dude's neck broke.
> : >
> : > thanks,
> : >
> : > Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> :
> : I have far more customers alive, in their 80s, because they ride... than
> : I have had killed in accidents because they were old & frail.
> :
> : Cycling is something you can do at a surprisingly-high level at a
> : surprisingly-old age, unlike most other ways of staying physically fit.
> : I've mentioned before that I've got a customer who's 87 years old and
> : still rides 130 miles/week.
> :
> : I'd rather take my chances breaking a hip (a fairly common issue for
> : older cyclists) than waste away in a "retirement" home.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> The choice doesn't have to be binary, cycling or couch potatoing.
>
> It can be some other activity.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

There's a 50/50 chance that it's not binary. Or, that it is. Or,
something.


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 4:11 pm
From: Brad Anders


On Sep 2, 7:01 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> "Anton Berlin" <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:259126e6-f025-49f9-8768-c427f8d070a0@x42g2000yqx.googlegroups.com...
> : In the 75+ age group Richard Simons set a new record yesterday.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> From a fitness standpoint, riding a bike @ 75 years old sounds attractive
> until one considers: crashing.
>
> People whom are that old have a tendency to break if they fall down in their
> living room.
>
> A college friend of mine's 70 year old stepfather died in a solo crash.
> Dude's neck broke.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

By the time we're 75, you'll be able to take some dope that will make
your bones harder than stainless steel. I'm also hoping for some good
dope that will give me a VO2max at 75 that's better than it is today.

Better living through chemicals.

Brad Anders

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Vuelta a Espana, stage 7 summary
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/8efb7b2c5d392075?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 4:45 pm
From: DirtRoadie


On Sep 3, 12:32 pm, Bob Martin <bob.mar...@excite.com> wrote:

Thanks for that.

Semi related- go to about 4:10 here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1BmU7CEPS4

DR

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: Australia
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/ce3b49b69f904254?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 5:32 pm
From: James


On Sep 4, 3:54 am, Tom Sherman °_°
<twshermanREM...@THISsouthslope.net> wrote:
> On 9/3/2010 12:18 PM, Dan O wrote:
>
> > [...]
> > (BTW, and with no offense to anyone, I'm not sure Australia is a real
> > place ;-)[...]
>
> Of course Australia is imaginary.  I mean, the people and animals would
> all fall off, since they are on the bottom side of the planet! ;)

Just call it 'j' or 'i', the sqrt(-1). The place where water spins
the opposite direction when it goes down the drain.

JS.


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 6:19 pm
From: Andre Jute


Dan O <danoverman@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm not aware of anyone here advocating mandatory helmet use - except
> maybe Andre, but I simply haven't been reading all of that stuff,
> so...

Not me either, Danno. That's a straw man erected by the anti-helmet
zealots, that anyone who publishes honest data about cycling
fatalities and injuries is thereby promoting a mandatory helmet law.
My sole interest lies in publishing honest data to stop people like
Krygowski lying, to help cyclists unconfuse themselves in order to
make their own decisions. I have not told people to wear a helmet, or
to stop wearing one. I have not recommended a mandatory helmet law or
rejected a mandatory helmet law. I provide quality information and
others can make up their minds. That is all. It's a social service I
perform because I believe in free speech and high quality information
free to all as bulwarks of democracy and liberty. The "troll"-shouters
and other mouth-foamers demanding unearned "respect" (i.e. obeissance
to their prejudices) have a different idea of who should be allowed to
possess knowledge, or deliver knowledge, because knowledge is power
over others. Me, I give it away while they want to hug it to them.

Andre Jute
Visit Andre's books at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/THE%20WRITER'S%20HOUSE.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why are the AHZ lying?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/429ffb24ca0c4a7e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 5:58 pm
From: Andre Jute


Phil W Lee <p...@lee-family.me.uk> wrote:
> Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sep 2, 1:59 pm, Phil W Lee <p...@lee-family.me.uk> wrote:
> >> "MikeWhy" <boat042-nos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> >An exhaustive study showed 97% of those who died were not wearing bicycle
> >> >helmets.
>
> >> And that only 74% of them had any head injury at all,
>
> >Sure, you wouldn't expect a helmet to save a cyclist from a broken
> >knee, would you then?
>
> No,

Okay, we agree on that. So why did you make your irrelevant remark
about the 74% who had head injuries? Or do you just throw out these
irrelevances in the hope that everyone else will get tired of your
iterative stupidity and go away?

> but then if someone has been flattened by a truck, I'm not
> surprised if a head injury of some kind is included in their injuries.

They're dead. You haven't even grasped that this argument isn't about
the dead but the living, yet you want to throw around insults. In the
New York compilation it was seen that
• of the fatalities only 3% wore helmets but of the survivors of
SERIOUS crashes 13% wore helmets
• leading to the conclusion that it is likely helmets save lives

This argument is about the helmet-wearing differential between the
fatalities and the survivors (albeit seriously injured).

> Ascribing magic protective properties to helmets such that they reduce
> injury to other parts of the body is a specialty of the proponents,
> despite the fact that even you seem to be capable of accepting it is
> ludicrous.

You agree I don't do it, but you accuse me of it all the same. Why do
you insult my intelligence, Phil? Why do you blow such low-class
smoke?

> > I've seen some dud arguments from the anti-
> >helmet zealots but you, Phil, are second only to Krygowski for blowing
> >irrelevant smoke.
>
> You're not doing very well yourself.

I've in two successive posts now shown specifically where you blow
smoke out of your arse in all directions. You have yet to show a
single incident where I blew even a small puff of smoke. I give the
numbers and extremely cautious projections from the numbers. You just
waffle your merry mantras, relevant or not.

> >>and that the
> >> number with _serious_ (i.e. fatal or life changing) head injuries was
> >> apparently so embarrassingly low they didn't even report the figure.
>
> >Phil, you have been told personally, and it has been published several
> >times more in this thread, that only serious injuries and fatalities
> >were counted in the NY study and you were given the reference too --
> >pg 22 of
> >http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/episrv/episrv-bike-report.pdf
> > For you to repeat this untrue excuse not to consider a major study
> >which contradicts your anti-helmet zealotry borders on lying.
>
> Actually, that part is on page 15, and it clearly doesn't limit the
> level of injury in any way beyond that it is "documented".

Once more a total, stupid, irrelevance to cover up your deliberate
lie. Who's talking about the fatalities? I'm talking about the
survivors of serious accidents. So is everyone else.

> Page 22 deals with non-fatal incidents.

Exactly. Survivors. Of whom 13% wore helmets, whereas of the
fatalities only 3% wore helmets. Conclusion obvious.

More stupid irrelevances, for which there is no matchable data in New
York, just the desperate wishful thinking of the anti-helmet zealots:
> It is also interesting that the study finds that there was no change
> in the rate of fatalities over the course of the study period.

"No change in the rate of fatalities" and "74% of fatalities with head
injuries" match the national data and are thus good controls on the
quality and applicability of the New York compilation. Thanks for
harping on those numbers so that I remembered to make this point.

> How much did helmet use increase to achieve this astounding result of
> bugger-all (and against a background of a reduction in incidents)?

I don't know. If you think it is so important, go find out. The
subject of the present engagement with the incorrigible anti-helmet
zealots' lying tactics is this:
•In the New York compilation only 3% of the fatalities wore helmets
while 13% of the survivors of serious crashes wore helmets, leading to
the conclusion that helmets save lives.

And no anti-helmet zealot post would be complete without a dash of
personal nastiness:
> If you write as well as you read,

Prove that I misread anything at all. I caught you out lying in your
teeth for your "cause" of anti-helmet zealotry, and you have the
effontery to attack my profession and my comprehension in English.
You're a self-lacerating idiot, Phil.

>it's a wonder you ever sold
> anything.  That you ever did is a testament to the abilities of your
> proof-readers and editors.

No wonder you morons lose every argument.

Andre Jute
Never more brutal than he has to be -- Nelson Mandela


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 6:51 pm
From: Andre Jute


Frank Krygowski <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Granted, if a person really cannot see the
> weaknesses in something like the report Jute cites,

You've had five or six goes at proving your claims now, Frank, and
each time you've made a fool of yourself, as did your sidekicks
McNamara and Lee. So why don't you get a copy of the report, read it,
and give us a complete list of these alleged "weaknesses" that you
keep whining about. Specifics, Franki-boy, specifics, not smoke-
tarnished insinuations. Here's the report:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/episrv/episrv-bike-report.pdf
and here are extracts from it...
• Most fatal crashes (74%) involved a head injury.
• Nearly all bicyclists who died (97%) were not wearing a helmet.
• Helmet use was only 3% in fatal crashes, but 13% in non-fatal
crashes
...from which the obvious conclusion may be drawn that helmets save
lives.

I look forward to your final list of alleged "weaknesses", Franki-boy.
Trying to teach an incorrigible slow learner like you statistics is
getting boring.

Andre Jute
Krygo, he say, Any old number is good number


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fatty Masters National Championships in Frisco this week
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/29dcebe0940ad055?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 6:56 pm
From: Fred on a stick


On 9/3/2010 10:48 AM, Phil H wrote:

> OK, I don't use PCs anymore per se but I can train with regular cranks
> in the same way. Example: I'll do a 30 minute workout fairly hard by
> just pulling up on the cranks. On long climbs I'll pull up and push
> down. Having trained my legs to pedal like this, I really don't need
> the cranks anymore. When racing I consciously pull up on the cranks
> when the hammer goes down.

Hmmm. Did you use PC's after that little stint around 10 years ago?


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 7:34 pm
From: Phil H


On Sep 3, 6:56 pm, Fred on a stick <anonymous.cow...@address.invalid>
wrote:
> On 9/3/2010 10:48 AM, Phil H wrote:
>
> > OK, I don't use PCs anymore per se but I can train with regular cranks
> > in the same way. Example: I'll do a 30 minute workout fairly hard by
> > just pulling up on the cranks. On long climbs I'll pull up and push
> > down. Having trained my legs to pedal like this, I really don't need
> > the cranks anymore. When racing I consciously pull up on the cranks
> > when the hammer goes down.
>
> Hmmm. Did you use PC's after that little stint around 10 years ago?

I quit using them when I quit racing in 2003 although I never stopped
training hard or using the same pedaling technique. I would still ride
in the local weekly hammerfest.
This year I started racing again (60+) and eventually got under the
hour for a 40K TT. On a good day I'm about 1 mph slower than I was 10
years ago. What is your interest in PCs and were you "Fred on a Stick"
10 years ago?
Phil H


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 8:20 pm
From: Fred on a stick


On 9/3/2010 7:34 PM, Phil H wrote:
> On Sep 3, 6:56 pm, Fred on a stick<anonymous.cow...@address.invalid>
> wrote:
>> On 9/3/2010 10:48 AM, Phil H wrote:
>>
>>> OK, I don't use PCs anymore per se but I can train with regular cranks
>>> in the same way. Example: I'll do a 30 minute workout fairly hard by
>>> just pulling up on the cranks. On long climbs I'll pull up and push
>>> down. Having trained my legs to pedal like this, I really don't need
>>> the cranks anymore. When racing I consciously pull up on the cranks
>>> when the hammer goes down.
>>
>> Hmmm. Did you use PC's after that little stint around 10 years ago?
>
> I quit using them when I quit racing in 2003 although I never stopped
> training hard or using the same pedaling technique. I would still ride
> in the local weekly hammerfest.
> This year I started racing again (60+) and eventually got under the
> hour for a 40K TT. On a good day I'm about 1 mph slower than I was 10
> years ago. What is your interest in PCs and were you "Fred on a Stick"
> 10 years ago?
> Phil H

Ah, sorry, I forgot I was posting under that name. I guess it would've
been clearer if I'd used "chung on a stick" but I was rolling with the
Fred theme.

I was just wondering whether you'd been using PCs all this time, or if
you'd stopped. Remember a couple of years ago when I mentioned that
Frank was trying to get some riders together to do a test? That didn't
turn out so well.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: My book by Floyd
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7b113bd3f00b2f24?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 8:19 pm
From: coterock


I wonder if I should file a lawsuit against Landis. After all, I was
defrauded because, on his own admission, the book that I bought "
Positively False" is full of lies. If he is going to profit by being a
vindictive bottom feeder, then I want my money back.

I was deceived, and I want compensation.


==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets - 26 new messages in 8 topics - digest

Buzz It
alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets?hl=en

alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* 7-9, here we come - 6 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/86243ecc2404f7e9?hl=en
* Conner - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/8c39be1e9f710d46?hl=en
* O'Connell was hurt - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/ace5e36f3bbe7879?hl=en
* 18 game seaon... good ??? bad ??? - 4 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/5a7dfa974fa64149?hl=en
* Hate? I Know the Jets Fans Don't Hate the Pats - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/b8bf754bafaefc9a?hl=en
* AT, Clemens, & TE's - 8 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/89b5390c49a21920?hl=en
* Revis' Agents & the Media... - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/b2c3f4374f1a69d8?hl=en
* Semi OT...new rule involving Umpire change - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/f11c714c6bf6b2e0?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 7-9, here we come
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/86243ecc2404f7e9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 10:57 am
From: "papa.carl44"

"Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:df0f3aa9-687b-4c1d-ac94-5dc4a395b0c9@q40g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 2, 8:56 pm, Ritchie <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 2, 5:57 pm, Sean <BOSSFA...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > See my previous posts. (And I din't even mention our little holdout
> > situation). Hope I am very wrong. Sean
>
> I think 8 - 8 is what they will wind up with. I have zero confidence
> in Schott and even less in Sanchez. I still don't see what everyone
> sees in Sanchez. He looks like a deer in the headlights on the field
> and I hate the pouting he does when he screws up.

he has some boyish mannerisms, but he'll grow out of them i think.
best of all, he seems to play his best when it counts. that is an
ideal qb trait. the light goes on at the right time.

That stuff is good in high school and college...he's in a totally different
world now....he lost his leaders from last year, guys who put that feeling
into the huddle, Faneca and TJ....it seems they are trying to get Mangold to
do that.....Sanchez's boyish mannerisms may appeal to some in the pop set
today but it does not translate well to on the field leadership or taking
charge...I don't care how you cut it...the QB is a different animal...he
must take charge and that means more than just play well...he's not doing
that.


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 11:09 am
From: Michael


On Sep 3, 1:57 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:df0f3aa9-687b-4c1d-ac94-5dc4a395b0c9@q40g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 2, 8:56 pm, Ritchie <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 2, 5:57 pm, Sean <BOSSFA...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > See my previous posts. (And I din't even mention our little holdout
> > > situation). Hope I am very wrong. Sean
>
> > I think 8 - 8 is what they will wind up with. I have zero confidence
> > in Schott and even less in Sanchez. I still don't see what everyone
> > sees in Sanchez. He looks like a deer in the headlights on the field
> > and I hate the pouting he does when he screws up.
>
> he has some boyish mannerisms, but he'll grow out of them i think.
> best of all, he seems to play his best when it counts.  that is an
> ideal qb trait.  the light goes on at the right time.
>
> That stuff is good in high school and college...he's in a totally different
> world now....he lost his leaders from last year, guys who put that feeling
> into the huddle, Faneca and TJ....it seems they are trying to get Mangold to
> do that.....Sanchez's boyish mannerisms may appeal to some in the pop set
> today but it does not translate well to on the field leadership or taking
> charge...I don't care how you cut it...the QB is a different animal...he
> must take charge and that means more than just play well...he's not doing
> that.

agree but he is such a young fellow. easy to excuse folly for now so
long as he's making strides. all we've seen so far this year is the
preseason. last year he was tossed into the starting role having only
one full season of college under his belt. he's got good stuff and
will grow into the leadership role. before he can do that, he has to
build up his on confidence. that will happen as he plays and lears
more. we've heard that he has learned a bunch more, now he needs to
make it work for himself on the field. it is hard to take charge and
control an offense if you dont yet have full ownership of your own
position. he's on the way to getting the first step completed. after
that, he'll be more of a man on the field


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 1:13 pm
From: John C TX


On Sep 3, 10:01 am, Ritchie <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 3, 10:16 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 2, 8:30 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Ritchie" <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:bdac25f6-4da3-4ddd-8b0f-a7bdc8519b5a@n3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Sep 2, 5:57 pm, Sean <BOSSFA...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > See my previous posts. (And I din't even mention our little holdout
> > > > situation). Hope I am very wrong. Sean
>
> > > I think 8 - 8 is what they will wind up with. I have zero confidence
> > > in Schott and even less in Sanchez. I still don't see what everyone
> > > sees in Sanchez. He looks like a deer in the headlights on the field
> > > and I hate the pouting he does when he screws up.
>
> > > ========================================================
>
> > > I like those traits in Sanchise ;)
>
> > 11-5- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> You really believe they will go 11-5 ?

Yes, & I have us losing the first two.

Sanchez doesn't have t be great just average because last year he
sucked.


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 1:19 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:8de2cf93-1cfa-472d-9b11-ccf53a4d56c5@h37g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 3, 1:57 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:df0f3aa9-687b-4c1d-ac94-5dc4a395b0c9@q40g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 2, 8:56 pm, Ritchie <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 2, 5:57 pm, Sean <BOSSFA...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > See my previous posts. (And I din't even mention our little holdout
> > > situation). Hope I am very wrong. Sean
>
> > I think 8 - 8 is what they will wind up with. I have zero confidence
> > in Schott and even less in Sanchez. I still don't see what everyone
> > sees in Sanchez. He looks like a deer in the headlights on the field
> > and I hate the pouting he does when he screws up.
>
> he has some boyish mannerisms, but he'll grow out of them i think.
> best of all, he seems to play his best when it counts. that is an
> ideal qb trait. the light goes on at the right time.
>
> That stuff is good in high school and college...he's in a totally
> different
> world now....he lost his leaders from last year, guys who put that feeling
> into the huddle, Faneca and TJ....it seems they are trying to get Mangold
> to
> do that.....Sanchez's boyish mannerisms may appeal to some in the pop set
> today but it does not translate well to on the field leadership or taking
> charge...I don't care how you cut it...the QB is a different animal...he
> must take charge and that means more than just play well...he's not doing
> that.

agree but he is such a young fellow. easy to excuse folly for now so
long as he's making strides. all we've seen so far this year is the
preseason. last year he was tossed into the starting role having only
one full season of college under his belt. he's got good stuff and
will grow into the leadership role. before he can do that, he has to
build up his on confidence. that will happen as he plays and lears
more. we've heard that he has learned a bunch more, now he needs to
make it work for himself on the field. it is hard to take charge and
control an offense if you dont yet have full ownership of your own
position. he's on the way to getting the first step completed. after
that, he'll be more of a man on the field

Michael...ownership of a position is one thing...taking charge is quite a
different thing. I played on a college team where the #1 Qb went
down...then the #2 guy...the rest were not even an option and a very good
running back stepped up...he had very little time to figure it out, and had
never thrown a pass in a game...but he was the leader, he gave O linemen
Hell if they missed a block, he was tough, he was always the guy in charge
and he was serious...it can happen. Tom Matte did it...go look at that list
of plays on the wristband on display in Canton. BTW....Kellen did look good
last night...he has a very live arm, there was a good cross field breeze and
it did not bother his throws at all. Brunell had a couple of guys open and
his throws got caught in the wind and hung up...not the velocity Kellen had.


== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 3:42 pm
From: Michael


On Sep 3, 4:19 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:8de2cf93-1cfa-472d-9b11-ccf53a4d56c5@h37g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 3, 1:57 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:df0f3aa9-687b-4c1d-ac94-5dc4a395b0c9@q40g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> > On Sep 2, 8:56 pm, Ritchie <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 2, 5:57 pm, Sean <BOSSFA...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > See my previous posts. (And I din't even mention our little holdout
> > > > situation). Hope I am very wrong. Sean
>
> > > I think 8 - 8 is what they will wind up with. I have zero confidence
> > > in Schott and even less in Sanchez. I still don't see what everyone
> > > sees in Sanchez. He looks like a deer in the headlights on the field
> > > and I hate the pouting he does when he screws up.
>
> > he has some boyish mannerisms, but he'll grow out of them i think.
> > best of all, he seems to play his best when it counts. that is an
> > ideal qb trait. the light goes on at the right time.
>
> > That stuff is good in high school and college...he's in a totally
> > different
> > world now....he lost his leaders from last year, guys who put that feeling
> > into the huddle, Faneca and TJ....it seems they are trying to get Mangold
> > to
> > do that.....Sanchez's boyish mannerisms may appeal to some in the pop set
> > today but it does not translate well to on the field leadership or taking
> > charge...I don't care how you cut it...the QB is a different animal...he
> > must take charge and that means more than just play well...he's not doing
> > that.
>
> agree but he is such a young fellow.  easy to excuse folly for now so
> long as he's making strides.  all we've seen so far this year is the
> preseason.  last year he was tossed into the starting role having only
> one full season of college under his belt.  he's got good stuff and
> will grow into the leadership role.  before he can do that, he has to
> build up his on confidence.  that will happen as he plays and lears
> more.  we've heard that he has learned a bunch more, now he needs to
> make it work for himself on the field.   it is hard to take charge and
> control an offense if you dont yet have full ownership of your own
> position.  he's on the way to getting the first step completed.  after
> that, he'll be more of a man on the field
>
> Michael...ownership of a position is one thing...taking charge is quite a
> different thing.  I played on a college team where the #1 Qb went
> down...then the #2 guy...the rest were not even an option and a very good
> running back stepped up...he had very little time to figure it out, and had
> never thrown a pass in a game...but he was the leader, he gave O linemen
> Hell if they missed a block, he was tough, he was always the guy in charge
> and he was serious...it can happen.  Tom Matte did it...go look at that list
> of plays on the wristband on display in Canton.  BTW....Kellen did look good
> last night...he has a very live arm, there was a good cross field breeze and
> it did not bother his throws at all.  Brunell had a couple of guys open and
> his throws got caught in the wind and hung up...not the velocity Kellen had.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Papa... Sanchez did not even know the offense. "red light, yellow
light, green light" Perhaps it is harder to get on a line guy with
any authority for missing a block if you dont even know what he is
supposed to block in the first place and everyone around you knows
it. All I'm saying here is that he'll be more of a leader when he
himself is confident about his position and has proven it. All he
needs is a little more time to demonstrate himself and then I expect
you'll see him move into a leadership role. If not, he can go double
date with Matt Lienart. They can take their "chicks" out for hot
dogs. I'd consider cutting him some slack. Jeez... He did not have
much experience. Just one year starting at USA. We all knew we'd
have to bare with it. He's got skills and a good attitude. A guy like
that can move ahead.


== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 4:00 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:d31a753e-dc8e-476f-8d6d-0fb4ee5a10ba@w4g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 3, 4:19 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:8de2cf93-1cfa-472d-9b11-ccf53a4d56c5@h37g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 3, 1:57 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:df0f3aa9-687b-4c1d-ac94-5dc4a395b0c9@q40g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> > On Sep 2, 8:56 pm, Ritchie <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 2, 5:57 pm, Sean <BOSSFA...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > See my previous posts. (And I din't even mention our little holdout
> > > > situation). Hope I am very wrong. Sean
>
> > > I think 8 - 8 is what they will wind up with. I have zero confidence
> > > in Schott and even less in Sanchez. I still don't see what everyone
> > > sees in Sanchez. He looks like a deer in the headlights on the field
> > > and I hate the pouting he does when he screws up.
>
> > he has some boyish mannerisms, but he'll grow out of them i think.
> > best of all, he seems to play his best when it counts. that is an
> > ideal qb trait. the light goes on at the right time.
>
> > That stuff is good in high school and college...he's in a totally
> > different
> > world now....he lost his leaders from last year, guys who put that
> > feeling
> > into the huddle, Faneca and TJ....it seems they are trying to get
> > Mangold
> > to
> > do that.....Sanchez's boyish mannerisms may appeal to some in the pop
> > set
> > today but it does not translate well to on the field leadership or
> > taking
> > charge...I don't care how you cut it...the QB is a different animal...he
> > must take charge and that means more than just play well...he's not
> > doing
> > that.
>
> agree but he is such a young fellow. easy to excuse folly for now so
> long as he's making strides. all we've seen so far this year is the
> preseason. last year he was tossed into the starting role having only
> one full season of college under his belt. he's got good stuff and
> will grow into the leadership role. before he can do that, he has to
> build up his on confidence. that will happen as he plays and lears
> more. we've heard that he has learned a bunch more, now he needs to
> make it work for himself on the field. it is hard to take charge and
> control an offense if you dont yet have full ownership of your own
> position. he's on the way to getting the first step completed. after
> that, he'll be more of a man on the field
>
> Michael...ownership of a position is one thing...taking charge is quite a
> different thing. I played on a college team where the #1 Qb went
> down...then the #2 guy...the rest were not even an option and a very good
> running back stepped up...he had very little time to figure it out, and
> had
> never thrown a pass in a game...but he was the leader, he gave O linemen
> Hell if they missed a block, he was tough, he was always the guy in charge
> and he was serious...it can happen. Tom Matte did it...go look at that
> list
> of plays on the wristband on display in Canton. BTW....Kellen did look
> good
> last night...he has a very live arm, there was a good cross field breeze
> and
> it did not bother his throws at all. Brunell had a couple of guys open and
> his throws got caught in the wind and hung up...not the velocity Kellen
> had.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Papa... Sanchez did not even know the offense. "red light, yellow
light, green light" Perhaps it is harder to get on a line guy with
any authority for missing a block if you dont even know what he is
supposed to block in the first place and everyone around you knows
it. All I'm saying here is that he'll be more of a leader when he
himself is confident about his position and has proven it. All he
needs is a little more time to demonstrate himself and then I expect
you'll see him move into a leadership role. If not, he can go double
date with Matt Lienart. They can take their "chicks" out for hot
dogs. I'd consider cutting him some slack. Jeez... He did not have
much experience. Just one year starting at USA. We all knew we'd
have to bare with it. He's got skills and a good attitude. A guy like
that can move ahead.

He can move ahead...well, he sure as Hell can't go much further back and
still be the first string QB....he has NO excuses about not knowing the
offense now...that should have been over half way through last season...now,
it's not even a question...and if it is it only says one of two things,
either Sanchez is an idiot, and I don't think he is, or Schott can't
communicate the offense...but after a year it has to be one or the
other...we shall see, there are a lot of guys who came out of college and
got it going....it seems that with the Jets it's always a "little more time"
deal, then something else happens.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Conner
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/8c39be1e9f710d46?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 11:04 am
From: "papa.carl44"

"Harlan Lachman" <harlan@eeivt.com> wrote in message
news:harlan-465390.11284703092010@news60.forteinc.com...
> In article
> <20f1a8c9-252a-46db-820e-7b563b97b961@i4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> Michael <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sep 3, 10:14 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Sep 3, 8:48 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > On Sep 3, 12:06 am, "JKConey" <jkco...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > This Terminator worship is going too far. The guy is totally one
>> > > > dimensional, and has hands like cement. I'd keep him on specials,
>> > > > but
>> > > > hope
>> > > > they don't lose one of these good RB's because of the hype. He's
>> > > > not
>> > > > that
>> > > > good. Anyone else agree ?
>> >
>> > > the terminator is good as a lead blocker or special teams guy. who
>> > > knows if he can learn to carry the ball or not. as of yet, i have not
>> > > seen enough to know if he can be a help picking up guys going after
>> > > the qb. still.. being a good lead blocker is nothing to sneez at.
>> > > moose made a career of it with the cowboys.
>> >
>> > > i like the way chauncey washington looked. wonder if he can produce
>> > > agaisnt first team defenders ???
>> >
>> > > mcnight's only hope for making the practice squad is that he was a
>> > > draft pick.
>> >
>> > > i was glad to see both brunell and clemens get some production.
>> >
>> > Rex said McKnight was on the team. We had Leon Washington.- Hide quoted
>> > text -
>> >
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> he's on the active roster ??? wow. i thought they might stick him on
>> the practice squad. And yes... I would have held on to Leon. He did
>> a lot for the jets and the fans liked him.
>
> Not me. Glad his irrational salary demands, whiney wife, lousy agent are
> all gone.
>
> Too bad about McKnight. Wish they had the balls to cut him. Production
> is what is key and this guy has not had it since HS.
>
> harlan

McKnight looked horrendous from what I saw...and, he did not block either.
I had a very good view of things, it is a very nice stadium...I had never
been there before....McKnight is one of those guys who thinks his speed is
much greater than it is...he dances way too much, is tentative, looks to go
outside and makes the cut inside too late...plus he fumbles.

I can't agree with you on Washington. His wife only spoke out after the
Jets decided to get rid of him....right here in my own neighborhood there
are wives who shout like crazy for their husbands to get more, more,
more...that is not a big deal. It's all about production and play on the
field....the Jets are going to regret this move.


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 3:52 pm
From: buRford


On Fri, 3 Sep 2010 14:04:23 -0400, "papa.carl44" <papadotcarl@nospamverizon.net> wrote:

>
>"Harlan Lachman" <harlan@eeivt.com> wrote in message
>news:harlan-465390.11284703092010@news60.forteinc.com...
>> In article
>> <20f1a8c9-252a-46db-820e-7b563b97b961@i4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>> Michael <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sep 3, 10:14 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > On Sep 3, 8:48 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > On Sep 3, 12:06 am, "JKConey" <jkco...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > > This Terminator worship is going too far. The guy is totally one
>>> > > > dimensional, and has hands like cement. I'd keep him on specials,
>>> > > > but
>>> > > > hope
>>> > > > they don't lose one of these good RB's because of the hype. He's
>>> > > > not
>>> > > > that
>>> > > > good. Anyone else agree ?
>>> >
>>> > > the terminator is good as a lead blocker or special teams guy. who
>>> > > knows if he can learn to carry the ball or not. as of yet, i have not
>>> > > seen enough to know if he can be a help picking up guys going after
>>> > > the qb. still.. being a good lead blocker is nothing to sneez at.
>>> > > moose made a career of it with the cowboys.
>>> >
>>> > > i like the way chauncey washington looked. wonder if he can produce
>>> > > agaisnt first team defenders ???
>>> >
>>> > > mcnight's only hope for making the practice squad is that he was a
>>> > > draft pick.
>>> >
>>> > > i was glad to see both brunell and clemens get some production.
>>> >
>>> > Rex said McKnight was on the team. We had Leon Washington.- Hide quoted
>>> > text -
>>> >
>>> > - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>> he's on the active roster ??? wow. i thought they might stick him on
>>> the practice squad. And yes... I would have held on to Leon. He did
>>> a lot for the jets and the fans liked him.
>>
>> Not me. Glad his irrational salary demands, whiney wife, lousy agent are
>> all gone.
>>
>> Too bad about McKnight. Wish they had the balls to cut him. Production
>> is what is key and this guy has not had it since HS.
>>
>> harlan
>
>McKnight looked horrendous from what I saw...and, he did not block either.
>I had a very good view of things, it is a very nice stadium...I had never
>been there before....McKnight is one of those guys who thinks his speed is
>much greater than it is...he dances way too much, is tentative, looks to go
>outside and makes the cut inside too late...plus he fumbles.
>
>I can't agree with you on Washington. His wife only spoke out after the
>Jets decided to get rid of him....right here in my own neighborhood there
>are wives who shout like crazy for their husbands to get more, more,
>more...that is not a big deal. It's all about production and play on the
>field....the Jets are going to regret this move.
>

McKnight's just another NFL head-case walking ego. Too bad we drafted him, as he'll be
taking up a roster spot, unfortunately.
I do like the other Washington kid, & USC product, Chauncey. Tough runner, with a great
attitude.
He was interviewed after the game, and seems like an intelligent, confident kid, with his
head on straight. Kinda surprised two other teams have already released him, previously.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: O'Connell was hurt
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/ace5e36f3bbe7879?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 11:16 am
From: "papa.carl44"

"John C TX" <johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a18f0f2a-d44f-43c0-bdf0-d61df775e35f@h40g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> Now is he a dumb ass for hiding this or do the jet's doc stink?
>
> He could have been placed on IR as we are paying him anyway.
>
> http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2010/09/starting_lineup_for_jets_fourt.html
>
> Quarterback Kevin O'Connell, who was waived by the Jets Tuesday, found
> out after being cut that he has a torn labrum in his throwing arm,
> according to a person with direct knowledge of what O'Connell was told
> in a follow-up exam.
>
> That person requested anonymity because they are not authorized to
> speak for O'Connell.
>
> O'Connell sustained the injury during the preseason, the person said.
> After being cut, he sought a second opinion on his right shoulder and
> learned he has a torn labrum, an injury which requires surgery and
> months of rehab.
>
> The third-year player was shown being waived in Episode 4 of Hard
> Knocks, told by general manager Mike Tannenbaum he had not progressed
> as they had hoped to be the team's long-term No. 2. He would now be
> due an injury settlement.
>
> The Jets do not confirm injury information for players not on the
> roster, a team spokesman said.

In training camp the med staff is way too loose I think, especially with non
"star" players....what I did like about Hard Knocks (even though I don't
like a lot of the stuff about what I see) is you see how the current
business situation keeps them from presenting the best game, team and
putting the best players on the field. I simply do not believe that one
guy, Revis, is so freakin important that they let the team aspects of the
game go for him. I also can not understand why Tannenbaum and Woody have so
freakin much to say about peformance of players...they should be listening
to coaches, not talking and then they can do their thing. I think it would
be a good thing for the league if Revis just sat for three years and that's
it. There will never be the level of play and quality of team if they keep
caving to a few superstars. Then...add two more games...you gotta be
kidding me, like they don't have enough injuries already.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 18 game seaon... good ??? bad ???
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/5a7dfa974fa64149?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 11:17 am
From: "papa.carl44"

"Sean" <BOSSFAN12@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0a29a02a-c79b-4eb4-961d-c7336248605c@l6g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 2, 5:31 pm, Deadmeat <no...@home.com> wrote:
> On 9/1/2010 10:05 PM, buRford wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 09:51:46 -0700 (PDT), Michael<mjd1...@verizon.net>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Been thinking about this one...
>
> >> I wound not mind 18 games, but woud it water the game down ??? I'd
> >> have to imagine they would need to expand the roster to at least 60
> >> guys. It would create new oppertunities for those unknown or
> >> undeveloped guys with potential, no ???
>
> >> I cant decide if this would be good or bad
>
> > I'm against the grain on this one.
> > I don't like it.
> > I know people don't like preseason, but it serves a purpose - - getting
> > players prepared
> > for the season, and weeding out the JAGs.
> > If they cut a few preseason games, and add them as regular season games,
> > there are gonna
> > be many more injuries. At the beginning of the season, because players
> > aren't ready. At
> > the end of the season, because players are worn down.
> > How many holdouts have we seen, that get injured when they return?
> > Regular season games
> > are intense... and just being in shape, doesn't mean they're in playing
> > shape.
>
> > Nah... I'll pass... but, I'm sure the NFL will do it.
>
> The same thing was said when they went from 12 to 14. Then again when
> they went from 14 to 16. Injuries can happen at anytime, and as long as
> both sides will make more money, you're right it will happen.- Hide quoted
> text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

It is a foregone conclusion, but I am a purist, and I am dead-set
against it. There aren't enough quality players as it is on the 53 man
roster. Who really has quality depth? Super Bowl shouldn't be decided
by who won the war of attrition. Does this now mean players will get
an @ 12% raise fro the extra games? I am old school as it gets (for a
42 year-old, anyway). Too many teams as it is in NFL, MLB and NHL.
(Don't know or care about NBA). Talent pool is already diminished as
it is. They damn well better have 2 byes when they got to 18 games.
Sean

It is a horrible idea....the season is too long now as it is. If they think
guys will not get through that actual season without a lot of "help" they
are nuts.


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 11:19 am
From: "papa.carl44"

"John C TX" <johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1b7f96bb-3329-484e-84c9-4fe9bb7a1850@p22g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 2, 4:31 pm, Deadmeat <no...@home.com> wrote:
> On 9/1/2010 10:05 PM, buRford wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 09:51:46 -0700 (PDT), Michael<mjd1...@verizon.net>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Been thinking about this one...
>
> >> I wound not mind 18 games, but woud it water the game down ??? I'd
> >> have to imagine they would need to expand the roster to at least 60
> >> guys. It would create new oppertunities for those unknown or
> >> undeveloped guys with potential, no ???
>
> >> I cant decide if this would be good or bad
>
> > I'm against the grain on this one.
> > I don't like it.
> > I know people don't like preseason, but it serves a purpose - - getting
> > players prepared
> > for the season, and weeding out the JAGs.
> > If they cut a few preseason games, and add them as regular season games,
> > there are gonna
> > be many more injuries. At the beginning of the season, because players
> > aren't ready. At
> > the end of the season, because players are worn down.
> > How many holdouts have we seen, that get injured when they return?
> > Regular season games
> > are intense... and just being in shape, doesn't mean they're in playing
> > shape.
>
> > Nah... I'll pass... but, I'm sure the NFL will do it.
>
> The same thing was said when they went from 12 to 14. Then again when
> they went from 14 to 16. Injuries can happen at anytime, and as long as
> both sides will make more money, you're right it will happen.

It will happen because of money but players will have shorter careers
& ultimately make less money.

Go read "How Football Explains America" by Sal Palantonio....it makes so
much sense as that book explains....the greed of America is on full display
in the NFL...and ultimately it will bring down the league and the Nation.


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 1:22 pm
From: John C TX

> It is a horrible idea....the season is too long now as it is.  If they think
> guys will not get through that actual season without a lot of "help" they
> are nuts.

Some of this ALS research linking head injuries should be enough to
get them to rethink it but it won't.


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 1:37 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"John C TX" <johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5b829aea-2bce-4af6-95ad-8f75b5bf4c6c@k36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...

> It is a horrible idea....the season is too long now as it is. If they
> think
> guys will not get through that actual season without a lot of "help" they
> are nuts.

Some of this ALS research linking head injuries should be enough to
get them to rethink it but it won't.

You are right...and that is really sad....very sad. The average age for a
lineman is not that long.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hate? I Know the Jets Fans Don't Hate the Pats
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/b8bf754bafaefc9a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 11:20 am
From: "papa.carl44"

"Harlan Lachman" <harlan@eeivt.com> wrote in message
news:harlan-08B922.18254302092010@news60.forteinc.com...
> In article <058u7658lk1spv78b6kgpejhqc89b227dm@4ax.com>,
> graybeard <graybeard@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 16:23:45 -0700 (PDT) Michael <mjd1966@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >yeah, but hard to disslike the current fish. shula is gone, marino is
>> >gone, the guy that hates the jets chant is on our team, new ownership,
>> >etc... sparano is a good coach and likable too. all we have now is
>> >channing crowder. a fairly weak reason not to like the fish.
>>
>> Ben Davidson and Ike Lassiter are 70 years old, and I still hate the
>> Raiders. Al Davis is 81 and senile, and I still hate the Raiders.
>
> Yes!!!!!
>
> Lets not talk about how old we be though.
>
> h

I'm beginning to think it's only OLD people who make any sense...well, I
would also include very hip young folks who think like old souls.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: AT, Clemens, & TE's
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/89b5390c49a21920?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 11:32 am
From: "papa.carl44"

"John C TX" <johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8ac448f2-fd8c-4795-9a0d-76b2d18391ec@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 2, 10:21 am, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in
> messagenews:8eb3a92d-4a22-452a-b5b7-aaffd0e51b01@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> >> Some of that spread and run and shoot stuff got a lot of hype from Jim
> >> Garrett too....I went to a couple of his clinics on it....he was
> >> different...all I can say.....a little strange in his presentation of
> >> things....I always felt that the real way to stop all those spreads,
> >> but
> >> especially the run and shoot was to blitz the Hell out of it and find
> >> out
> >> how fast and shifty the Qb was...and how tough if you got him.
>
> > Mouse Davis even when he talks, well when he used to as time can
> > change a man's memory, admitted he didn't wake up one night and yell
> > "Eureka!" I don't know who Jim Garrett is but I am sure some clever
> > HS coach was running some variation someplace back in the 50's.
>
> > I saw a HS game last week. One ran a spread w/ 4 wide outs and the
> > other team defended it man to man & did exactly what you said. 7 v 5
> > & maybe 6 if teh TB picked up the blitz. It was a long night for the
> > spread. I see a lot of HS teams running a 4-2-5 defense because so
> > many are running some version of the spread.
>
> Jim Garrett, father of Jason and Judd...former asst. of the Giants, Saints
> and Browns....head coach at Columbia and several other colleges, including
> Susquehana where he had a fantstic record...played at Utah...is from
> Rutherford....once played fullback for the Eagles....He had issues at
> Susquehana for hitting a player...that came back when he was at
> Columbia....he supported the run and shoot stuff big time...and I always
> felt explained it much better than Mouse or any of the others did.

I remember when Columbia blew up on him. He had some success at
Princeton with his son. He has made a lot of money with that
Princeton degree.

Who had success at Princeton????? His son did as I recall. Judd was a
running back and Jason was a QB...all three boys, including John went to
Columbia for the one year their father was there and then transferred back
to Princeton...Jim was never a coach at Princeton....Jason and Judd are with
The Cowboys now. Up until a few years ago the father, Jim, was a scout for
the Cowboys. He was sort of crazy...but he understood the game and could
also present it to coaches quite well...and that is not so common. He
actually made sense....I've been to far too many "clinics" where something
that should have taken fifteen minutes was the subject of a two hour lecture
with the obligatory overhead...and the common trait of repeating everything
they say twice.


== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 11:42 am
From: "papa.carl44"

"Harlan Lachman" <harlan@eeivt.com> wrote in message
news:harlan-345342.18220802092010@news60.forteinc.com...
> In article
> <8ac448f2-fd8c-4795-9a0d-76b2d18391ec@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> John C TX <johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sep 2, 10:21 am, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
>> wrote:
>> > "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> > messagenews:8eb3a92d-4a22-452a-b5b7-aaffd0e51b01@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com
>> > ...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >> Some of that spread and run and shoot stuff got a lot of hype from
>> > >> Jim
>> > >> Garrett too....I went to a couple of his clinics on it....he was
>> > >> different...all I can say.....a little strange in his presentation
>> > >> of
>> > >> things....I always felt that the real way to stop all those spreads,
>> > >> but
>> > >> especially the run and shoot was to blitz the Hell out of it and
>> > >> find
>> > >> out
>> > >> how fast and shifty the Qb was...and how tough if you got him.
>> >
>> > > Mouse Davis even when he talks, well when he used to as time can
>> > > change a man's memory, admitted he didn't wake up one night and yell
>> > > "Eureka!" I don't know who Jim Garrett is but I am sure some clever
>> > > HS coach was running some variation someplace back in the 50's.
>> >
>> > > I saw a HS game last week. One ran a spread w/ 4 wide outs and the
>> > > other team defended it man to man & did exactly what you said. 7 v 5
>> > > & maybe 6 if teh TB picked up the blitz. It was a long night for the
>> > > spread. I see a lot of HS teams running a 4-2-5 defense because so
>> > > many are running some version of the spread.
>> >
>> > Jim Garrett, father of Jason and Judd...former asst. of the Giants,
>> > Saints
>> > and Browns....head coach at Columbia and several other colleges,
>> > including
>> > Susquehana where he had a fantstic record...played at Utah...is from
>> > Rutherford....once played fullback for the Eagles....He had issues at
>> > Susquehana for hitting a player...that came back when he was at
>> > Columbia....he supported the run and shoot stuff big time...and I
>> > always
>> > felt explained it much better than Mouse or any of the others did.
>>
>> I remember when Columbia blew up on him. He had some success at
>> Princeton with his son. He has made a lot of money with that
>> Princeton degree.
>
> As a Columbia alum, I decided our team never deserved to win another
> game after the debacle of declaring that losing was acceptable.
>
> For those ignorant about Columbia football, after several inspiring
> games (including winning the Rose bowl, upsetting an undefeated Army
> juggernaut in the early 50s on their own version of The Catch, and some
> brilliant upsets by an Archie Roberts qb'd team, Columbia started
> losing. horrifically. We could find ways to lose that would have made
> hours long videos of freak plays, incredible decisions, bad luck, etc.
> We even had the longest losing streak in the nation.
>
> Garrett was brought in with his sons to turn it around. I think it was
> in his first game that they were ahead, a huge upset in the making, I am
> sorry I forget the opponent, the punter went in and whiffed at the ball.
> Whiffed. The opponents went on to score. Garrett kicked the punter off
> the team after making him apologize to the team. IMHO, the only way to
> destroy a legacy of incompetence was to not tolerate it so I was
> overjoyed that losing was not going to continue to be a way of life.
>
> Except the NY media destroyed Garrett. They loved the lovable losers .
> The administration decided that a punter who whiffs at a ball and costs
> his entire team a well earned victory should not be embarrassed by being
> kicked off the team for being the loser he was, or forced to apologize
> to his teammates for single handedly costing them a game. The punter was
> reinstated, Garrett fired. And losing continued.
>
> His kids transferred to Princeton which did not do to badly and one of
> his sons had a brief pro career before becoming a coach down in Dallas.
>
> harlan

I completely agree with you. Both Judd and Jason are with Dallas, Judd
played some pro ball too. Jim spent the end of his career as a scout with
Dallas. That entire fiasco with Columbia spread through a lot of high
school programs too....boards of education and controlling parents used it
as a tool to make losing a pet project, like giving every single kid in the
race a trophy. Hard work at something became a bad concept, as did
competence at a skill. As a result, self esteem flew out the window. I
coached more than a few kids who knew they would almost never play, they
wanted to be part of something that won, worked hard and they became role
players and had a mission in practice. When it was possible they got to
play because of that. One of those kids went on to go to The Naval Academy.
Another went to Princeton on a full scholarship and they all stayed in touch
with me. I felt like they were just as much a part of the team as the
all-state starters. That is why they call it a team sport. I also coached
at a school briefly where after winning four games in one season and that
being the first time in over a decade the school ever won the whole staff
caught Hell for being too hard on the kids. We all resigned at once, went
to other schools and all became part of state championship teams. The idea
is to win the freakin game. BTW Harlan, I went to graduate school at
Columbia.


== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 11:48 am
From: "papa.carl44"

"John C TX" <johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:524e106d-b45c-4c66-bd78-cac4ecb85e2e@t5g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>> Except the NY media destroyed Garrett.
>
> H, what was most bizarre about that situation was that Jimmy Breslin
> went on & on about Garret. We should get Papa the job over there and
> pack the team with NY, NJ & CT kids only
>
> :)

Throw in some PA kids...from "across the river"....some coal crackers...some
inner city kids....a few suburban kids who want to be tough...and you can
seriously kick ass. The key is you get them to become a team and support
each other's differences. protect each other. I vividly remember taking a
team that was about 70% white and 30% black to play an almost all black
school....I was elated when one of our starters, captain of the team and
TE...made a very loud statement, "Damn, Coach...they act like they ain't
never seen white people before." When our black players rallied instantly
around our white players...it was over. The reciprocal of that happened
several times...when we beat the crap out of a very wealthy upscale town, no
black player ever had to walk off the field without being with white players
so as to not allow the parents in this case to hurl their venom...and when
it happend it was the kids who spoke up for their teammates...we won a lot
like that. I do have to say, we were always treated well in a black
community, I can not say the same for going to the lilly white
suburbs...that was always brutal.


== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 11:50 am
From: "papa.carl44"

"Harlan Lachman" <harlan@eeivt.com> wrote in message
news:harlan-D2E8F9.11260903092010@news60.forteinc.com...
> In article
> <524e106d-b45c-4c66-bd78-cac4ecb85e2e@t5g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> John C TX <johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Except the NY media destroyed Garrett.
>>
>> H, what was most bizarre about that situation was that Jimmy Breslin
>> went on & on about Garret. We should get Papa the job over there and
>> pack the team with NY, NJ & CT kids only
>>
>> :)
>
> As long as losing is synonymous with the school, the LSU roster would
> lose in bizzare ways in Columbia Blue.
>
> You are what you are committed to. Columbia sports, for the most part,
> is committed to mediocrity or worse.
>
> harlan

One area where I irritated a lot of liberals was right there...they seemed
to be caught up in that "playing the game" crap...never could buy into
playing to win...and for that they always told me I was not really one of
them....also could never believe my academic standing, I coached football
and wanted to win...how could I be intelligent and liberal? Weird world.


== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 1:09 pm
From: John C TX


On Sep 3, 1:32 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:8ac448f2-fd8c-4795-9a0d-76b2d18391ec@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 2, 10:21 am, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in
> > messagenews:8eb3a92d-4a22-452a-b5b7-aaffd0e51b01@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > >> Some of that spread and run and shoot stuff got a lot of hype from Jim
> > >> Garrett too....I went to a couple of his clinics on it....he was
> > >> different...all I can say.....a little strange in his presentation of
> > >> things....I always felt that the real way to stop all those spreads,
> > >> but
> > >> especially the run and shoot was to blitz the Hell out of it and find
> > >> out
> > >> how fast and shifty the Qb was...and how tough if you got him.
>
> > > Mouse Davis even when he talks, well when he used to as time can
> > > change a man's memory, admitted he didn't wake up one night and yell
> > > "Eureka!" I don't know who Jim Garrett is but I am sure some clever
> > > HS coach was running some variation someplace back in the 50's.
>
> > > I saw a HS game last week. One ran a spread w/ 4 wide outs and the
> > > other team defended it man to man & did exactly what you said. 7 v 5
> > > & maybe 6 if teh TB picked up the blitz. It was a long night for the
> > > spread. I see a lot of HS teams running a 4-2-5 defense because so
> > > many are running some version of the spread.
>
> > Jim Garrett, father of Jason and Judd...former asst. of the Giants, Saints
> > and Browns....head coach at Columbia and several other colleges, including
> > Susquehana where he had a fantstic record...played at Utah...is from
> > Rutherford....once played fullback for the Eagles....He had issues at
> > Susquehana for hitting a player...that came back when he was at
> > Columbia....he supported the run and shoot stuff big time...and I always
> > felt explained it much better than Mouse or any of the others did.
>
> I remember when Columbia blew up on him.  He had some success at
> Princeton with his son.  He has made a lot of money with that
> Princeton degree.
>
> Who had success at Princeton?????  His son did as I recall.  Judd was a
> running back and Jason was a QB...all three boys, including John went to
> Columbia for the one year their father was there and then transferred back
> to Princeton...Jim was never a coach at Princeton....Jason and Judd are with
> The Cowboys now.  Up until a few years ago the father, Jim, was a scout for
> the Cowboys.  He was sort of crazy...but he understood the game and could
> also present it to coaches quite well...and that is not so common.  He
> actually made sense....I've been to far too many "clinics" where something
> that should have taken fifteen minutes was the subject of a two hour lecture
> with the obligatory overhead...and the common trait of repeating everything
> they say twice.

Gotcha, I thought he ended up at Princeton w/ his sons.

As for clinics, amen, best coach in my world was a teacher first prior
to hitting it big. He also can quickly & succinctly communicate ideas
to both players & other coaches. Most coaches think pedagogy is what
you put on your feet.


== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 1:36 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"John C TX" <johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5242c98f-ca35-486f-9dcb-99e7f1b4992b@a19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 3, 1:32 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in
> messagenews:8ac448f2-fd8c-4795-9a0d-76b2d18391ec@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 2, 10:21 am, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in
> > messagenews:8eb3a92d-4a22-452a-b5b7-aaffd0e51b01@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > >> Some of that spread and run and shoot stuff got a lot of hype from
> > >> Jim
> > >> Garrett too....I went to a couple of his clinics on it....he was
> > >> different...all I can say.....a little strange in his presentation of
> > >> things....I always felt that the real way to stop all those spreads,
> > >> but
> > >> especially the run and shoot was to blitz the Hell out of it and find
> > >> out
> > >> how fast and shifty the Qb was...and how tough if you got him.
>
> > > Mouse Davis even when he talks, well when he used to as time can
> > > change a man's memory, admitted he didn't wake up one night and yell
> > > "Eureka!" I don't know who Jim Garrett is but I am sure some clever
> > > HS coach was running some variation someplace back in the 50's.
>
> > > I saw a HS game last week. One ran a spread w/ 4 wide outs and the
> > > other team defended it man to man & did exactly what you said. 7 v 5
> > > & maybe 6 if teh TB picked up the blitz. It was a long night for the
> > > spread. I see a lot of HS teams running a 4-2-5 defense because so
> > > many are running some version of the spread.
>
> > Jim Garrett, father of Jason and Judd...former asst. of the Giants,
> > Saints
> > and Browns....head coach at Columbia and several other colleges,
> > including
> > Susquehana where he had a fantstic record...played at Utah...is from
> > Rutherford....once played fullback for the Eagles....He had issues at
> > Susquehana for hitting a player...that came back when he was at
> > Columbia....he supported the run and shoot stuff big time...and I always
> > felt explained it much better than Mouse or any of the others did.
>
> I remember when Columbia blew up on him. He had some success at
> Princeton with his son. He has made a lot of money with that
> Princeton degree.
>
> Who had success at Princeton????? His son did as I recall. Judd was a
> running back and Jason was a QB...all three boys, including John went to
> Columbia for the one year their father was there and then transferred back
> to Princeton...Jim was never a coach at Princeton....Jason and Judd are
> with
> The Cowboys now. Up until a few years ago the father, Jim, was a scout for
> the Cowboys. He was sort of crazy...but he understood the game and could
> also present it to coaches quite well...and that is not so common. He
> actually made sense....I've been to far too many "clinics" where something
> that should have taken fifteen minutes was the subject of a two hour
> lecture
> with the obligatory overhead...and the common trait of repeating
> everything
> they say twice.

Gotcha, I thought he ended up at Princeton w/ his sons.

As for clinics, amen, best coach in my world was a teacher first prior
to hitting it big. He also can quickly & succinctly communicate ideas
to both players & other coaches. Most coaches think pedagogy is what
you put on your feet.

A lot of coaching clinics are like Amway meetings :-)


== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 2:59 pm
From: Harlan Lachman


In article <MNGdnZuXZf0T3BzRnZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
"papa.carl44" <papadotcarl@nospamverizon.net> wrote:

> "Harlan Lachman" <harlan@eeivt.com> wrote in message
> news:harlan-345342.18220802092010@news60.forteinc.com...
> > In article
> > <8ac448f2-fd8c-4795-9a0d-76b2d18391ec@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> > John C TX <johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sep 2, 10:21 am, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
> >> wrote:
> >> > "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> > messagenews:8eb3a92d-4a22-452a-b5b7-aaffd0e51b01@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.
> >> > com
> >> > ...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >> Some of that spread and run and shoot stuff got a lot of hype from
> >> > >> Jim
> >> > >> Garrett too....I went to a couple of his clinics on it....he was
> >> > >> different...all I can say.....a little strange in his presentation
> >> > >> of
> >> > >> things....I always felt that the real way to stop all those spreads,
> >> > >> but
> >> > >> especially the run and shoot was to blitz the Hell out of it and
> >> > >> find
> >> > >> out
> >> > >> how fast and shifty the Qb was...and how tough if you got him.
> >> >
> >> > > Mouse Davis even when he talks, well when he used to as time can
> >> > > change a man's memory, admitted he didn't wake up one night and yell
> >> > > "Eureka!" I don't know who Jim Garrett is but I am sure some clever
> >> > > HS coach was running some variation someplace back in the 50's.
> >> >
> >> > > I saw a HS game last week. One ran a spread w/ 4 wide outs and the
> >> > > other team defended it man to man & did exactly what you said. 7 v 5
> >> > > & maybe 6 if teh TB picked up the blitz. It was a long night for the
> >> > > spread. I see a lot of HS teams running a 4-2-5 defense because so
> >> > > many are running some version of the spread.
> >> >
> >> > Jim Garrett, father of Jason and Judd...former asst. of the Giants,
> >> > Saints
> >> > and Browns....head coach at Columbia and several other colleges,
> >> > including
> >> > Susquehana where he had a fantstic record...played at Utah...is from
> >> > Rutherford....once played fullback for the Eagles....He had issues at
> >> > Susquehana for hitting a player...that came back when he was at
> >> > Columbia....he supported the run and shoot stuff big time...and I
> >> > always
> >> > felt explained it much better than Mouse or any of the others did.
> >>
> >> I remember when Columbia blew up on him. He had some success at
> >> Princeton with his son. He has made a lot of money with that
> >> Princeton degree.
> >
> > As a Columbia alum, I decided our team never deserved to win another
> > game after the debacle of declaring that losing was acceptable.
> >
> > For those ignorant about Columbia football, after several inspiring
> > games (including winning the Rose bowl, upsetting an undefeated Army
> > juggernaut in the early 50s on their own version of The Catch, and some
> > brilliant upsets by an Archie Roberts qb'd team, Columbia started
> > losing. horrifically. We could find ways to lose that would have made
> > hours long videos of freak plays, incredible decisions, bad luck, etc.
> > We even had the longest losing streak in the nation.
> >
> > Garrett was brought in with his sons to turn it around. I think it was
> > in his first game that they were ahead, a huge upset in the making, I am
> > sorry I forget the opponent, the punter went in and whiffed at the ball.
> > Whiffed. The opponents went on to score. Garrett kicked the punter off
> > the team after making him apologize to the team. IMHO, the only way to
> > destroy a legacy of incompetence was to not tolerate it so I was
> > overjoyed that losing was not going to continue to be a way of life.
> >
> > Except the NY media destroyed Garrett. They loved the lovable losers .
> > The administration decided that a punter who whiffs at a ball and costs
> > his entire team a well earned victory should not be embarrassed by being
> > kicked off the team for being the loser he was, or forced to apologize
> > to his teammates for single handedly costing them a game. The punter was
> > reinstated, Garrett fired. And losing continued.
> >
> > His kids transferred to Princeton which did not do to badly and one of
> > his sons had a brief pro career before becoming a coach down in Dallas.
> >
> > harlan
>
> I completely agree with you. Both Judd and Jason are with Dallas, Judd
> played some pro ball too. Jim spent the end of his career as a scout with
> Dallas. That entire fiasco with Columbia spread through a lot of high
> school programs too....boards of education and controlling parents used it
> as a tool to make losing a pet project, like giving every single kid in the
> race a trophy. Hard work at something became a bad concept, as did
> competence at a skill. As a result, self esteem flew out the window. I
> coached more than a few kids who knew they would almost never play, they
> wanted to be part of something that won, worked hard and they became role
> players and had a mission in practice. When it was possible they got to
> play because of that. One of those kids went on to go to The Naval Academy.
> Another went to Princeton on a full scholarship and they all stayed in touch
> with me. I felt like they were just as much a part of the team as the
> all-state starters. That is why they call it a team sport. I also coached
> at a school briefly where after winning four games in one season and that
> being the first time in over a decade the school ever won the whole staff
> caught Hell for being too hard on the kids. We all resigned at once, went
> to other schools and all became part of state championship teams. The idea
> is to win the freakin game. BTW Harlan, I went to graduate school at
> Columbia.

me too. a double dipper.

h


== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 3:45 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"Harlan Lachman" <harlan@eeivt.com> wrote in message
news:harlan-A76C93.17594003092010@news60.forteinc.com...
> In article <MNGdnZuXZf0T3BzRnZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> "papa.carl44" <papadotcarl@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
>
>> "Harlan Lachman" <harlan@eeivt.com> wrote in message
>> news:harlan-345342.18220802092010@news60.forteinc.com...
>> > In article
>> > <8ac448f2-fd8c-4795-9a0d-76b2d18391ec@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>> > John C TX <johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sep 2, 10:21 am, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >> > messagenews:8eb3a92d-4a22-452a-b5b7-aaffd0e51b01@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.
>> >> > com
>> >> > ...
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > >> Some of that spread and run and shoot stuff got a lot of hype
>> >> > >> from
>> >> > >> Jim
>> >> > >> Garrett too....I went to a couple of his clinics on it....he was
>> >> > >> different...all I can say.....a little strange in his
>> >> > >> presentation
>> >> > >> of
>> >> > >> things....I always felt that the real way to stop all those
>> >> > >> spreads,
>> >> > >> but
>> >> > >> especially the run and shoot was to blitz the Hell out of it and
>> >> > >> find
>> >> > >> out
>> >> > >> how fast and shifty the Qb was...and how tough if you got him.
>> >> >
>> >> > > Mouse Davis even when he talks, well when he used to as time can
>> >> > > change a man's memory, admitted he didn't wake up one night and
>> >> > > yell
>> >> > > "Eureka!" I don't know who Jim Garrett is but I am sure some
>> >> > > clever
>> >> > > HS coach was running some variation someplace back in the 50's.
>> >> >
>> >> > > I saw a HS game last week. One ran a spread w/ 4 wide outs and the
>> >> > > other team defended it man to man & did exactly what you said. 7 v
>> >> > > 5
>> >> > > & maybe 6 if teh TB picked up the blitz. It was a long night for
>> >> > > the
>> >> > > spread. I see a lot of HS teams running a 4-2-5 defense because so
>> >> > > many are running some version of the spread.
>> >> >
>> >> > Jim Garrett, father of Jason and Judd...former asst. of the Giants,
>> >> > Saints
>> >> > and Browns....head coach at Columbia and several other colleges,
>> >> > including
>> >> > Susquehana where he had a fantstic record...played at Utah...is from
>> >> > Rutherford....once played fullback for the Eagles....He had issues
>> >> > at
>> >> > Susquehana for hitting a player...that came back when he was at
>> >> > Columbia....he supported the run and shoot stuff big time...and I
>> >> > always
>> >> > felt explained it much better than Mouse or any of the others did.
>> >>
>> >> I remember when Columbia blew up on him. He had some success at
>> >> Princeton with his son. He has made a lot of money with that
>> >> Princeton degree.
>> >
>> > As a Columbia alum, I decided our team never deserved to win another
>> > game after the debacle of declaring that losing was acceptable.
>> >
>> > For those ignorant about Columbia football, after several inspiring
>> > games (including winning the Rose bowl, upsetting an undefeated Army
>> > juggernaut in the early 50s on their own version of The Catch, and some
>> > brilliant upsets by an Archie Roberts qb'd team, Columbia started
>> > losing. horrifically. We could find ways to lose that would have made
>> > hours long videos of freak plays, incredible decisions, bad luck, etc.
>> > We even had the longest losing streak in the nation.
>> >
>> > Garrett was brought in with his sons to turn it around. I think it was
>> > in his first game that they were ahead, a huge upset in the making, I
>> > am
>> > sorry I forget the opponent, the punter went in and whiffed at the
>> > ball.
>> > Whiffed. The opponents went on to score. Garrett kicked the punter off
>> > the team after making him apologize to the team. IMHO, the only way to
>> > destroy a legacy of incompetence was to not tolerate it so I was
>> > overjoyed that losing was not going to continue to be a way of life.
>> >
>> > Except the NY media destroyed Garrett. They loved the lovable losers .
>> > The administration decided that a punter who whiffs at a ball and costs
>> > his entire team a well earned victory should not be embarrassed by
>> > being
>> > kicked off the team for being the loser he was, or forced to apologize
>> > to his teammates for single handedly costing them a game. The punter
>> > was
>> > reinstated, Garrett fired. And losing continued.
>> >
>> > His kids transferred to Princeton which did not do to badly and one of
>> > his sons had a brief pro career before becoming a coach down in Dallas.
>> >
>> > harlan
>>
>> I completely agree with you. Both Judd and Jason are with Dallas, Judd
>> played some pro ball too. Jim spent the end of his career as a scout
>> with
>> Dallas. That entire fiasco with Columbia spread through a lot of high
>> school programs too....boards of education and controlling parents used
>> it
>> as a tool to make losing a pet project, like giving every single kid in
>> the
>> race a trophy. Hard work at something became a bad concept, as did
>> competence at a skill. As a result, self esteem flew out the window. I
>> coached more than a few kids who knew they would almost never play, they
>> wanted to be part of something that won, worked hard and they became role
>> players and had a mission in practice. When it was possible they got to
>> play because of that. One of those kids went on to go to The Naval
>> Academy.
>> Another went to Princeton on a full scholarship and they all stayed in
>> touch
>> with me. I felt like they were just as much a part of the team as the
>> all-state starters. That is why they call it a team sport. I also
>> coached
>> at a school briefly where after winning four games in one season and that
>> being the first time in over a decade the school ever won the whole staff
>> caught Hell for being too hard on the kids. We all resigned at once,
>> went
>> to other schools and all became part of state championship teams. The
>> idea
>> is to win the freakin game. BTW Harlan, I went to graduate school at
>> Columbia.
>
> me too. a double dipper.
>
> h

I did it after finishing my first degree in a grad school....got a new job
and they decided to send me there for a second MA. I liked it a lot, I used
to take the train to school a couple of nights a week. Those were some good
days...long ago.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Revis' Agents & the Media...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/b2c3f4374f1a69d8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 2:54 pm
From: buRford


Read this earlier today. Seems like this guy Cole is working for Revis, to put pressure
on Jets management... hope they don't bite.


http://yhoo.it/buZo0E
Jets in danger of losing Revis forever
By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports Sep 2, 9:22 pm EDT

At one point during the latest episode of HBO's "Hard Knocks," Jets coach Rex Ryan
explained to veteran wide receiver Laveranues Coles(notes) why the team had to cut him. It
was over salary reasons, but Ryan said the team hoped to bring back Coles in the second
week of the season when his contract won't be fully guaranteed.

Ultimately, Ryan told Coles that the team had to make the move "in case [cornerback
Darrelle Revis(notes)] shows up without a new contract."

Here's a little piece of information for Ryan and the rest of the New York Jets: If Revis
doesn't get a new contract soon, New York doesn't have to worry about the star cornerback
showing up. Ever.

As the clock ticks to the beginning of the NFL season, the relationship between the Jets
and Revis is ticking toward an end. A divorce, really. That might sound like hysteria to
some but it's reality.

You can hear the agitation in Ryan's voice when he talks about the overall state of his
team. During one moment in "Hard Knocks," Ryan chewed the Jets out for not playing with
urgency, a bad sign for any team, particularly for one that hasn't won a championship in
more than four decades.

Jets fans can pump their chest about allowing only one touchdown in the first three games
of preseason, but that means nothing. If the Jets are really going to run Ryan's
high-risk, blitz-heavy defense, they have to have Revis. As gifted as cornerback Antonio
Cromartie(notes) is, he's not tough enough to emulate Revis.

If the Jets can't bridge the gap between what they are offering Revis and what he believes
they promised him at the end of last season, he's not showing up, period.

As in ever again.

At the end of last season, when the Jets were going to the AFC championship game and New
York Mayor Michael Bloomberg was renaming Manhattan "Revis Island," the Jets were floating
on an attention high. When it all came crashing in the loss to Indianapolis, the Jets
couldn't live with the buzzkill. They openly talked about getting Revis, who has three
seasons left on his contract, signed to a lifetime deal. Ryan said Revis was the best
defensive player in the league. It was an open declaration of love, the kind of wooing you
see in Julia Roberts' movies.

And at that point, the Jets were committed. Owner Woody Johnson can say all he wants about
how that was then and this is now, but the fact is that his team made what Revis believed
to be a promise. That means a lot to a 25-year-old man who plays a game of furious emotion
and passion. This isn't an abstract business deal.

Revis believes the Jets have toyed with him by making their initial overtures so public.
If this had been done privately, Revis would have shown up for training camp even if a new
contract hadn't been agreed upon.

The problem is that love in the NFL is expressed in dollars and the Jets didn't think this
one through. In fact, when the idea of a long-term contract for Revis (10 years) was
broached with this reporter months ago, I took all of about 30 seconds to figure out that
the approximate number Revis would be looking for was roughly $160 million.

And I'm not exactly a contract negotiator.

What's strange is that the Jets should have anticipated that. The Jets knew agents Neil
Schwartz and Jonathan Feinsod well enough to understand that this wasn't going to be easy
if they didn't take a strong approach. It wasn't the first time considering Revis held out
as a rookie in 2007. It wasn't when Schwartz and Feinsod were representing former Jets
guard Pete Kendall(notes) and tight end Chris Baker.

Schwartz and Feinsod crafted a brilliant contract for Revis the first time, one so good
that no other team has ever done it since. Schwartz and Feinsod know leverage and they
have certain principles.

More important, Revis has principles, too. If you were Revis and had a pretty good idea
that your value isn't going down anytime soon (there's plenty of proof of that around the
NFL) and you no longer had faith in the Jets, would you ever play for them again? Is that
the kind of professional, working marriage you'd want to get into?

His uncle, Sean Gilbert, once sat out an entire year with Washington when he wanted
between $4 million and $5 million a year and the Redskins were offering $3.2 million.

After a year away, Gilbert got $7 million a year from Carolina.

Gilbert learned that great players get great money even if they miss an entire season.
This year alone, No. 1 overall pick Sam Bradford(notes) got $50 million guaranteed even
though he was coming off an injury-marred season in which he barely played. Likewise, wide
receiver Dez Bryant(notes) and tight end Jermaine Gresham(notes) were both first-round
picks this year despite barely playing last season in college.

There are plenty of other examples that feed this notion.

Revis isn't wrong to ask for a deal that eclipses Oakland cornerback Nnamdi
Asomugha's(notes) $15.17 million average. Beyond the fact that Denver cornerback Champ
Bailey(notes) isn't far behind this year with a base salary of $13 million, any 10-year or
long-term deal for that type of money means the deal will be eclipsed numerous times in
the coming years. It's the way the NFL works.

To put it in another perspective, Indianapolis quarterback Peyton Manning(notes) will soon
reset the bar for what the top players in the league are worth. The Colts will be lucky -
yes, lucky - to get Manning's deal done for less than an average of $25 million a year.

And if the top quarterback in the league is worth $25 million a year, what is the top
cornerback or defensive end, left tackle or wide receiver - all guys who drastically
impact the quarterback - are going to be worth?

There's going to come a point where $16 million a year for Revis is a decent price.

The Jets can counter that by saying that they're doing Revis a favor by redoing his
contract now, at least one year in advance of free agency. That's reasonable, but here's
another way of looking at it: If Revis plays out his contract over the next three years,
he gets $21 million. The Jets then would be forced to put a franchise tag (assuming the
franchise tag still exists) for a minimum of $18 million for 2013 (based on the fact that
Revis' 2012 salary is scheduled to be $15 million.

That's $39 million over four years, but then the averages start to really jump, going way
north of $20 million a year. From that perspective, $16 million a year looks like a good
price.

But more important than any of that is a simple fact: Either the Jets get this done or
they never have Revis again.


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 3:38 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"buRford" <buRford@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
news:7mq286lrkvhhs7ehffimfgc9s91btk3iue@4ax.com...
> Read this earlier today. Seems like this guy Cole is working for Revis,
> to put pressure
> on Jets management... hope they don't bite.
>
>
> http://yhoo.it/buZo0E
> Jets in danger of losing Revis forever
> By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports Sep 2, 9:22 pm EDT
>
> At one point during the latest episode of HBO's "Hard Knocks," Jets coach
> Rex Ryan
> explained to veteran wide receiver Laveranues Coles(notes) why the team
> had to cut him. It
> was over salary reasons, but Ryan said the team hoped to bring back Coles
> in the second
> week of the season when his contract won't be fully guaranteed.
>
> Ultimately, Ryan told Coles that the team had to make the move "in case
> [cornerback
> Darrelle Revis(notes)] shows up without a new contract."
>
> Here's a little piece of information for Ryan and the rest of the New York
> Jets: If Revis
> doesn't get a new contract soon, New York doesn't have to worry about the
> star cornerback
> showing up. Ever.
>
> As the clock ticks to the beginning of the NFL season, the relationship
> between the Jets
> and Revis is ticking toward an end. A divorce, really. That might sound
> like hysteria to
> some but it's reality.
>
> You can hear the agitation in Ryan's voice when he talks about the overall
> state of his
> team. During one moment in "Hard Knocks," Ryan chewed the Jets out for not
> playing with
> urgency, a bad sign for any team, particularly for one that hasn't won a
> championship in
> more than four decades.
>
> Jets fans can pump their chest about allowing only one touchdown in the
> first three games
> of preseason, but that means nothing. If the Jets are really going to run
> Ryan's
> high-risk, blitz-heavy defense, they have to have Revis. As gifted as
> cornerback Antonio
> Cromartie(notes) is, he's not tough enough to emulate Revis.
>
> If the Jets can't bridge the gap between what they are offering Revis and
> what he believes
> they promised him at the end of last season, he's not showing up, period.
>
> As in ever again.
>
> At the end of last season, when the Jets were going to the AFC
> championship game and New
> York Mayor Michael Bloomberg was renaming Manhattan "Revis Island," the
> Jets were floating
> on an attention high. When it all came crashing in the loss to
> Indianapolis, the Jets
> couldn't live with the buzzkill. They openly talked about getting Revis,
> who has three
> seasons left on his contract, signed to a lifetime deal. Ryan said Revis
> was the best
> defensive player in the league. It was an open declaration of love, the
> kind of wooing you
> see in Julia Roberts' movies.
>
> And at that point, the Jets were committed. Owner Woody Johnson can say
> all he wants about
> how that was then and this is now, but the fact is that his team made what
> Revis believed
> to be a promise. That means a lot to a 25-year-old man who plays a game of
> furious emotion
> and passion. This isn't an abstract business deal.
>
> Revis believes the Jets have toyed with him by making their initial
> overtures so public.
> If this had been done privately, Revis would have shown up for training
> camp even if a new
> contract hadn't been agreed upon.
>
> The problem is that love in the NFL is expressed in dollars and the Jets
> didn't think this
> one through. In fact, when the idea of a long-term contract for Revis (10
> years) was
> broached with this reporter months ago, I took all of about 30 seconds to
> figure out that
> the approximate number Revis would be looking for was roughly $160
> million.
>
> And I'm not exactly a contract negotiator.
>
> What's strange is that the Jets should have anticipated that. The Jets
> knew agents Neil
> Schwartz and Jonathan Feinsod well enough to understand that this wasn't
> going to be easy
> if they didn't take a strong approach. It wasn't the first time
> considering Revis held out
> as a rookie in 2007. It wasn't when Schwartz and Feinsod were representing
> former Jets
> guard Pete Kendall(notes) and tight end Chris Baker.
>
> Schwartz and Feinsod crafted a brilliant contract for Revis the first
> time, one so good
> that no other team has ever done it since. Schwartz and Feinsod know
> leverage and they
> have certain principles.
>
> More important, Revis has principles, too. If you were Revis and had a
> pretty good idea
> that your value isn't going down anytime soon (there's plenty of proof of
> that around the
> NFL) and you no longer had faith in the Jets, would you ever play for them
> again? Is that
> the kind of professional, working marriage you'd want to get into?
>
> His uncle, Sean Gilbert, once sat out an entire year with Washington when
> he wanted
> between $4 million and $5 million a year and the Redskins were offering
> $3.2 million.
>
> After a year away, Gilbert got $7 million a year from Carolina.
>
> Gilbert learned that great players get great money even if they miss an
> entire season.
> This year alone, No. 1 overall pick Sam Bradford(notes) got $50 million
> guaranteed even
> though he was coming off an injury-marred season in which he barely
> played. Likewise, wide
> receiver Dez Bryant(notes) and tight end Jermaine Gresham(notes) were both
> first-round
> picks this year despite barely playing last season in college.
>
> There are plenty of other examples that feed this notion.
>
> Revis isn't wrong to ask for a deal that eclipses Oakland cornerback
> Nnamdi
> Asomugha's(notes) $15.17 million average. Beyond the fact that Denver
> cornerback Champ
> Bailey(notes) isn't far behind this year with a base salary of $13
> million, any 10-year or
> long-term deal for that type of money means the deal will be eclipsed
> numerous times in
> the coming years. It's the way the NFL works.
>
> To put it in another perspective, Indianapolis quarterback Peyton
> Manning(notes) will soon
> reset the bar for what the top players in the league are worth. The Colts
> will be lucky -
> yes, lucky - to get Manning's deal done for less than an average of $25
> million a year.
>
> And if the top quarterback in the league is worth $25 million a year, what
> is the top
> cornerback or defensive end, left tackle or wide receiver - all guys who
> drastically
> impact the quarterback - are going to be worth?
>
> There's going to come a point where $16 million a year for Revis is a
> decent price.
>
> The Jets can counter that by saying that they're doing Revis a favor by
> redoing his
> contract now, at least one year in advance of free agency. That's
> reasonable, but here's
> another way of looking at it: If Revis plays out his contract over the
> next three years,
> he gets $21 million. The Jets then would be forced to put a franchise tag
> (assuming the
> franchise tag still exists) for a minimum of $18 million for 2013 (based
> on the fact that
> Revis' 2012 salary is scheduled to be $15 million.
>
> That's $39 million over four years, but then the averages start to really
> jump, going way
> north of $20 million a year. From that perspective, $16 million a year
> looks like a good
> price.
>
> But more important than any of that is a simple fact: Either the Jets get
> this done or
> they never have Revis again.


This last sentence says it all...and I hope says it like it is....they NEVER
see his ass again, he does not play for three years and when he gets to come
back for somebody else it is Oakland at their worst with Al Davis still
running things from a wheelchair....and THEN...I hope he finds out that a
three year layoff did some serious damage to his abilities....better yet, he
should go try MMA...and get his ass kicked. When ONE player decides he is
better than anyone else to the extent that to have HIM on the team, means
you have to let valuable pieces of the team go, settle for second best in
some other areas it just isn't a team sport anymore and won't be worth
watching. Who is the Cole dude...he has to be on Revis' payroll.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 4:00 pm
From: buRford


On Fri, 3 Sep 2010 18:38:19 -0400, "papa.carl44" <papadotcarl@nospamverizon.net> wrote:

>
>"buRford" <buRford@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
>news:7mq286lrkvhhs7ehffimfgc9s91btk3iue@4ax.com...
>> Read this earlier today. Seems like this guy Cole is working for Revis,
>> to put pressure
>> on Jets management... hope they don't bite.
>>
>>
>> http://yhoo.it/buZo0E
>> Jets in danger of losing Revis forever
>> By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports Sep 2, 9:22 pm EDT
>>
>> At one point during the latest episode of HBO's "Hard Knocks," Jets coach
>> Rex Ryan
>> explained to veteran wide receiver Laveranues Coles(notes) why the team
>> had to cut him. It
>> was over salary reasons, but Ryan said the team hoped to bring back Coles
>> in the second
>> week of the season when his contract won't be fully guaranteed.
>>
>> Ultimately, Ryan told Coles that the team had to make the move "in case
>> [cornerback
>> Darrelle Revis(notes)] shows up without a new contract."
>>
>> Here's a little piece of information for Ryan and the rest of the New York
>> Jets: If Revis
>> doesn't get a new contract soon, New York doesn't have to worry about the
>> star cornerback
>> showing up. Ever.
>>
>> As the clock ticks to the beginning of the NFL season, the relationship
>> between the Jets
>> and Revis is ticking toward an end. A divorce, really. That might sound
>> like hysteria to
>> some but it's reality.
>>
>> You can hear the agitation in Ryan's voice when he talks about the overall
>> state of his
>> team. During one moment in "Hard Knocks," Ryan chewed the Jets out for not
>> playing with
>> urgency, a bad sign for any team, particularly for one that hasn't won a
>> championship in
>> more than four decades.
>>
>> Jets fans can pump their chest about allowing only one touchdown in the
>> first three games
>> of preseason, but that means nothing. If the Jets are really going to run
>> Ryan's
>> high-risk, blitz-heavy defense, they have to have Revis. As gifted as
>> cornerback Antonio
>> Cromartie(notes) is, he's not tough enough to emulate Revis.
>>
>> If the Jets can't bridge the gap between what they are offering Revis and
>> what he believes
>> they promised him at the end of last season, he's not showing up, period.
>>
>> As in ever again.
>>
>> At the end of last season, when the Jets were going to the AFC
>> championship game and New
>> York Mayor Michael Bloomberg was renaming Manhattan "Revis Island," the
>> Jets were floating
>> on an attention high. When it all came crashing in the loss to
>> Indianapolis, the Jets
>> couldn't live with the buzzkill. They openly talked about getting Revis,
>> who has three
>> seasons left on his contract, signed to a lifetime deal. Ryan said Revis
>> was the best
>> defensive player in the league. It was an open declaration of love, the
>> kind of wooing you
>> see in Julia Roberts' movies.
>>
>> And at that point, the Jets were committed. Owner Woody Johnson can say
>> all he wants about
>> how that was then and this is now, but the fact is that his team made what
>> Revis believed
>> to be a promise. That means a lot to a 25-year-old man who plays a game of
>> furious emotion
>> and passion. This isn't an abstract business deal.
>>
>> Revis believes the Jets have toyed with him by making their initial
>> overtures so public.
>> If this had been done privately, Revis would have shown up for training
>> camp even if a new
>> contract hadn't been agreed upon.
>>
>> The problem is that love in the NFL is expressed in dollars and the Jets
>> didn't think this
>> one through. In fact, when the idea of a long-term contract for Revis (10
>> years) was
>> broached with this reporter months ago, I took all of about 30 seconds to
>> figure out that
>> the approximate number Revis would be looking for was roughly $160
>> million.
>>
>> And I'm not exactly a contract negotiator.
>>
>> What's strange is that the Jets should have anticipated that. The Jets
>> knew agents Neil
>> Schwartz and Jonathan Feinsod well enough to understand that this wasn't
>> going to be easy
>> if they didn't take a strong approach. It wasn't the first time
>> considering Revis held out
>> as a rookie in 2007. It wasn't when Schwartz and Feinsod were representing
>> former Jets
>> guard Pete Kendall(notes) and tight end Chris Baker.
>>
>> Schwartz and Feinsod crafted a brilliant contract for Revis the first
>> time, one so good
>> that no other team has ever done it since. Schwartz and Feinsod know
>> leverage and they
>> have certain principles.
>>
>> More important, Revis has principles, too. If you were Revis and had a
>> pretty good idea
>> that your value isn't going down anytime soon (there's plenty of proof of
>> that around the
>> NFL) and you no longer had faith in the Jets, would you ever play for them
>> again? Is that
>> the kind of professional, working marriage you'd want to get into?
>>
>> His uncle, Sean Gilbert, once sat out an entire year with Washington when
>> he wanted
>> between $4 million and $5 million a year and the Redskins were offering
>> $3.2 million.
>>
>> After a year away, Gilbert got $7 million a year from Carolina.
>>
>> Gilbert learned that great players get great money even if they miss an
>> entire season.
>> This year alone, No. 1 overall pick Sam Bradford(notes) got $50 million
>> guaranteed even
>> though he was coming off an injury-marred season in which he barely
>> played. Likewise, wide
>> receiver Dez Bryant(notes) and tight end Jermaine Gresham(notes) were both
>> first-round
>> picks this year despite barely playing last season in college.
>>
>> There are plenty of other examples that feed this notion.
>>
>> Revis isn't wrong to ask for a deal that eclipses Oakland cornerback
>> Nnamdi
>> Asomugha's(notes) $15.17 million average. Beyond the fact that Denver
>> cornerback Champ
>> Bailey(notes) isn't far behind this year with a base salary of $13
>> million, any 10-year or
>> long-term deal for that type of money means the deal will be eclipsed
>> numerous times in
>> the coming years. It's the way the NFL works.
>>
>> To put it in another perspective, Indianapolis quarterback Peyton
>> Manning(notes) will soon
>> reset the bar for what the top players in the league are worth. The Colts
>> will be lucky -
>> yes, lucky - to get Manning's deal done for less than an average of $25
>> million a year.
>>
>> And if the top quarterback in the league is worth $25 million a year, what
>> is the top
>> cornerback or defensive end, left tackle or wide receiver - all guys who
>> drastically
>> impact the quarterback - are going to be worth?
>>
>> There's going to come a point where $16 million a year for Revis is a
>> decent price.
>>
>> The Jets can counter that by saying that they're doing Revis a favor by
>> redoing his
>> contract now, at least one year in advance of free agency. That's
>> reasonable, but here's
>> another way of looking at it: If Revis plays out his contract over the
>> next three years,
>> he gets $21 million. The Jets then would be forced to put a franchise tag
>> (assuming the
>> franchise tag still exists) for a minimum of $18 million for 2013 (based
>> on the fact that
>> Revis' 2012 salary is scheduled to be $15 million.
>>
>> That's $39 million over four years, but then the averages start to really
>> jump, going way
>> north of $20 million a year. From that perspective, $16 million a year
>> looks like a good
>> price.
>>
>> But more important than any of that is a simple fact: Either the Jets get
>> this done or
>> they never have Revis again.
>
>
>This last sentence says it all...and I hope says it like it is....they NEVER
>see his ass again, he does not play for three years and when he gets to come
>back for somebody else it is Oakland at their worst with Al Davis still
>running things from a wheelchair....and THEN...I hope he finds out that a
>three year layoff did some serious damage to his abilities....better yet, he
>should go try MMA...and get his ass kicked. When ONE player decides he is
>better than anyone else to the extent that to have HIM on the team, means
>you have to let valuable pieces of the team go, settle for second best in
>some other areas it just isn't a team sport anymore and won't be worth
>watching. Who is the Cole dude...he has to be on Revis' payroll.
>

I've honestly never seen such a propaganda piece before, in sports.
He's gotta be getting a percentage, or Revis' agents gave him Revis' used jock, which he's
been fantasizing about.
That said, I hope he's right, and Management moseys on, & just ignores Revis.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Semi OT...new rule involving Umpire change
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/f11c714c6bf6b2e0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 3:43 pm
From: "papa.carl44"


I'm sort of tired today, had a huge day yesterday and was actually on the go
from about 7 AM till about 2 AM this morning...non-stop. That ain't bad for
an old guy with spare parts, but it does mean that today was a "down" day,
resting when I needed to. I just finished watching some NFL channel
preseason games rerun.....it seems that this change of where the umpire
stands has created a new rule too. If the team snaps the ball before the
Umpire gets back into the new position it's a 5 yard penalty...that is
crazy, it sucks. It also means that a team can not do a lot of quick snap
type stuff. I'd seriously doubt some of Marino's quick snaps would work
now...this is dumb. The offense should be able to get out on the ball and
just go...not any more apparently.


==============================================================================

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