Saturday, September 4, 2010

Re: Medarticles Request for Ebooks on Chinese Medicine

Buzz It
The Treatment of Disease in TCM: Diseases of the Head & Face Including Mental Emotional Disorder (vol. 1)
by: Philippe Sionneau
en

 
 
 

The Treatment of Disease in Tcm V6 : Diseases of the Urogenital System & Proctology
by: Philippe Sionneau, Lu Gang,
en
pass: giga

http://ifile.it/5ls2avu/76404___the_treatment_of_disease_in_tcm._vol._6.rar


 

The Treatment of Disease in TCM V7 : General Symptoms
by: Philippe Sionneau, Lu Gang,
en
pass: giga
http://rapidshare.com/files/58760336/The_Treatment_of_Disease_in_TCM._Vol._7.rar

 

 Chinese medical Qigong therapy: A comprehensive clinical guide
by: Jerry Alan Johnson
en
http://ifile.it/e0brms1/Chinese%20Medical%20Qigong%20Therapy.rar
 
 
On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Inana <me.abdi@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear friends,
Would you please help me in finding the links to the following ebooks:

- The Treatment of Disease in TCM - Volume  3, 4,
 
Blue poppy press


- Chinese Medical Qigong Volume 1: Anatomy & Physiology
 1885246285


- Chinese Medical Qigong Volume 2: Alchemy Daoyin, Qi Deviations
 1-885246-29-3


- Chinese Medical Qigong Volume 3: Diagnosis, Clinical, Treatment
 1-885246-30-7


Thanks a lot for your help.

Best regards,
Inana.

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You can choose abridged email or digest email so that you will receive only one email per day.

Medarticles Request for Ebooks on Chinese Medicine

Buzz It
Dear friends,
Would you please help me in finding the links to the following ebooks:

- The Treatment of Disease in TCM - Volume 1, 3, 4, 6, 7
Blue poppy press


- Chinese Medical Qigong Volume 1: Anatomy & Physiology
1885246285


- Chinese Medical Qigong Volume 2: Alchemy Daoyin, Qi Deviations
1-885246-29-3


- Chinese Medical Qigong Volume 3: Diagnosis, Clinical, Treatment
1-885246-30-7


Thanks a lot for your help.

Best regards,
Inana.

--
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You can choose abridged email or digest email so that you will receive only one email per day.

rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

Buzz It
rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* My book by Floyd - 5 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7b113bd3f00b2f24?hl=en
* An argument that should've worked on a Bush-era judge - 2 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4636e5feb49051f6?hl=en
* OT Tony Blair - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e9ec95092dc4cef9?hl=en
* after all.... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/14a3f56f651c44c9?hl=en
* 3...2...1 - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/392608eee5266884?hl=en
* Today is 20th Anniversary of John Frey's 47:35 40K in MoriartyNew Mexico - 5
messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/cba9a2ba200acaf6?hl=en
* Vuelta a Espana, stage 8 summary - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3a4cb28ffb0461ed?hl=en
* Fatty Masters National Championships in Frisco this week - 3 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/29dcebe0940ad055?hl=en
* In a Muslim Country - Andre Jute would stone women - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/45b175d2fcae8084?hl=en
* The Time Wasting of Jute - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/429ffb24ca0c4a7e?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: My book by Floyd
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7b113bd3f00b2f24?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 2:31 pm
From: Michael Press


In article <RpydnWHgEdswTRzRnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@sti.net>,
"Mr. Slate" <LikeFlint@NoSpammers.com> wrote:

> Davey Crockett wrote:
> > coterock a écrit profondement:
> >
> >> I wonder if I should file a lawsuit against Landis. After all, I
> >> was defrauded because, on his own admission, the book that I bought "
> >> Positively False" is full of lies. If he is going to profit by being
> >> a vindictive bottom feeder, then I want my money back.
> >>
> >> I was deceived, and I want compensation.
> >
> > Get Laffery to file a Class Action ;)
>
> Maybe Floyd going to use the money he gets from his whistleblower lawsuit to
> pay them back? Act of conscious?
> http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=5529667

Looks as if Floyd Landis will never give up. This ride
of his continues to get more interesting; and he cannot
be busted for wearing a patch.

--
Michael Press


== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 4:37 pm
From: drmofe


On Sep 4, 3:19 pm, coterock <someon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I wonder if I should file a  lawsuit against Landis.  After all, I was
> defrauded because, on his own admission, the book that I bought "
> Positively False" is full of lies. If he is going to profit by being a
> vindictive bottom feeder, then I want my money back.
>
> I was deceived, and I want compensation.

The title of the book was "Positively False", you say it contained
false information and you wish to complain about this?


== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 6:07 pm
From: Choppy Warburton


On Sep 3, 10:19 pm, coterock <someon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I wonder if I should file a  lawsuit against Landis.  After all, I was
> defrauded because, on his own admission, the book that I bought "
> Positively False" is full of lies. If he is going to profit by being a
> vindictive bottom feeder, then I want my money back.
>
> I was deceived, and I want compensation.

Go on Oprah and become a victim. It's the american way pal.


== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 7:30 pm
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"

"Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
news:4C823BB3.4ABC01F4@sandiegozoo.org...
: coterock wrote:
:
: > I wonder if I should file a lawsuit against Landis. After all, I was
: > defrauded because, on his own admission, the book that I bought "
: > Positively False" is full of lies. If he is going to profit by being a
: > vindictive bottom feeder, then I want my money back.
: >
: > I was deceived, and I want compensation.
:
: Just because someone lies to you doesn't mean you were "defrauded."

Dumbass -

I would say that the $1million+ obtained by the Floyd Fairness Fund was by
means of fraud.

The money was raised on the pretense that he was clean and the victim of a
false positive.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 7:35 pm
From: RicodJour


On Sep 4, 10:30 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> "Magilla Gorilla" <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
>
> news:4C823BB3.4ABC01F4@sandiegozoo.org...: coterock wrote:
>
> :
> : > I wonder if I should file a  lawsuit against Landis.  After all, I was
> : > defrauded because, on his own admission, the book that I bought "
> : > Positively False" is full of lies. If he is going to profit by being a
> : > vindictive bottom feeder, then I want my money back.
> : >
> : > I was deceived, and I want compensation.
> :
> : Just because someone lies to you doesn't mean you were "defrauded."
>
> Dumbass -
>
> I would say that the $1million+ obtained by the Floyd Fairness Fund was by
> means of fraud.
>
> The money was raised on the pretense that he was clean and the victim of a
> false positive.

And the money was to help defray the costs of his legal defense,
right? That's insult to in-jury.

R

==============================================================================
TOPIC: An argument that should've worked on a Bush-era judge
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4636e5feb49051f6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 2:39 pm
From: Fred on a stick


On 7/23/2010 4:48 AM, Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
> On Jul 23, 10:42 am, Fred on a stick
> <anonymous.cow...@address.invalid> wrote:
>> From:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/22/BA3N1EIFC...
>>
>> "In her appeal, her lawyer argued that her answers were all literally
>> true. The products were actually supplied by Arnold's girlfriend, Arnold
>> never "gave" Thomas anything she didn't pay for, and the drugs she took
>> were not on the list of legally banned steroids when she took them, the
>> defense said."
>>
>> The punch line is in the penultimate sentence.
>
> One day you're wielding immense power deciding
> deep moral issues (on the wrong side, but so what)
> in the name of preserving a great and powerful nation.
>
> The next, you're deciding whether when Tammy Thomas
> says "gave" she means "gave" or "gave for free", and
> who wants to be thinking about, ahem, what TT's criteria
> are for the exchange of gifts, or what Tammy Thomas
> gets or gives for free.
>
> So one might conclude that Judge Bybee has achieved
> his proper place in the world after all. Ah, karma.
>
> Fredmaster of Justice Ben

Perhaps so. When is "littering" littering?

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2010/09/torture-and-littering.html


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 6:11 pm
From: Choppy Warburton


On Sep 4, 4:39 pm, Fred on a stick <anonymous.cow...@address.invalid>
wrote:
> On 7/23/2010 4:48 AM, Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 23, 10:42 am, Fred on a stick
> > <anonymous.cow...@address.invalid>  wrote:
> >> From:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/22/BA3N1EIFC...
>
> >> "In her appeal, her lawyer argued that her answers were all literally
> >> true. The products were actually supplied by Arnold's girlfriend, Arnold
> >> never "gave" Thomas anything she didn't pay for, and the drugs she took
> >> were not on the list of legally banned steroids when she took them, the
> >> defense said."
>
> >> The punch line is in the penultimate sentence.
>
> > One day you're wielding immense power deciding
> > deep moral issues (on the wrong side, but so what)
> > in the name of preserving a great and powerful nation.
>
> > The next, you're deciding whether when Tammy Thomas
> > says "gave" she means "gave" or "gave for free", and
> > who wants to be thinking about, ahem, what TT's criteria
> > are for the exchange of gifts, or what Tammy Thomas
> > gets or gives for free.
>
> > So one might conclude that Judge Bybee has achieved
> > his proper place in the world after all.  Ah, karma.
>
> > Fredmaster of Justice Ben
>
> Perhaps so. When is "littering" littering?
>
> http://balkin.blogspot.com/2010/09/torture-and-littering.html

good find

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT Tony Blair
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e9ec95092dc4cef9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 2:43 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article <84pqwtig0n.fsf@azurservers.com>,
Davey Crockett <rec@azurservers.com> wrote:

> RicodJour a écrit profondement:
>
> | On Sep 4, 12:37 pm, Davey Crockett <r...@azurservers.com> wrote:
>
> | > But everybody loved Spotted Dick
> | >
> | > Nobody loves Lance
> >
> | Comments such as that make me question my beliefs.
> | I thought you were from 'overseas' now I'm beginning to suspect you're
> | from outer space.
> >
>
> With a bit of luck, Super Wanker will get the Tony Bliar treatment next
> time he jumps on a platform.
>
> (Tony Bliar was pelted with shoes and rotten eggs at a book signing
> yesterday) Davey hopes most were direct hits
>
> http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2010/9/4/1283597624444/Tony-Blairs-first-signing-006.jpg

You support initiating violence.
Do you yourself throw missiles at people
who have not offered violence toward you?

--
Old Fritz


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 4:04 pm
From: Davey Crockett


Frederick the Great a écrit profondement:
| >
| > With a bit of luck, Super Wanker will get the Tony Bliar treatment next
| > time he jumps on a platform.
| >
| > (Tony Bliar was pelted with shoes and rotten eggs at a book signing
| > yesterday) Davey hopes most were direct hits
| >
| > http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2010/9/4/1283597624444/Tony-Blairs-first-signing-006.jpg
>
| You support initiating violence.
| Do you yourself throw missiles at people
| who have not offered violence toward you?

A a direct result of Tony Bliar's lies, more than a Million and
counting Iraqis died and 4.3 million have been displaced.

You show me a Rope, a Lamp Post and Tony Bliar and I'll show you Justice
in double quick time. And no Long Drop - let him have 20 minutes or so to
repent his sins before he chokes whilst the crowd taunt him like these
brave boys taunting a poor defenseless Arab Woman

http://www.kawther.info/wpr/wp-content/uploads/criminals.jpg

He's committed Conspiracy to wage Agressive war
He's Waged Agressive War
He's committed War Crimes
He's commited Crimes Against Humanity

Any one of which would have got him hung by the Nuremberg Kangaroo
Kourt

--
Davey Crockett
Saving the World from Democracy


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 7:26 pm
From: BLafferty


On 9/4/2010 5:20 PM, Beloved Fred No. 1 wrote:
> BLafferty wrote:
>> That's quite different from being loved by every bimbo, wanna be slut
>> in the US.
>
> You sound jealous (of the wanna-be bimbos and sluts that is).
>
You "sound" like a grasping Fuckwit who can't think of anything cogent
or useful to write. LOL!!


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 7:28 pm
From: BLafferty


On 9/4/2010 7:04 PM, Davey Crockett wrote:
> Frederick the Great a écrit profondement:
> |>
> |> With a bit of luck, Super Wanker will get the Tony Bliar treatment next
> |> time he jumps on a platform.
> |>
> |> (Tony Bliar was pelted with shoes and rotten eggs at a book signing
> |> yesterday) Davey hopes most were direct hits
> |>
> |> http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2010/9/4/1283597624444/Tony-Blairs-first-signing-006.jpg
>>
> | You support initiating violence.
> | Do you yourself throw missiles at people
> | who have not offered violence toward you?
>
> A a direct result of Tony Bliar's lies, more than a Million and
> counting Iraqis died and 4.3 million have been displaced.
>
> You show me a Rope, a Lamp Post and Tony Bliar and I'll show you Justice
> in double quick time. And no Long Drop - let him have 20 minutes or so to
> repent his sins before he chokes whilst the crowd taunt him like these
> brave boys taunting a poor defenseless Arab Woman
>
> http://www.kawther.info/wpr/wp-content/uploads/criminals.jpg
>
> He's committed Conspiracy to wage Agressive war
> He's Waged Agressive War
> He's committed War Crimes
> He's commited Crimes Against Humanity
>
> Any one of which would have got him hung by the Nuremberg Kangaroo
> Kourt
>
He's a war criminal. Same with Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Rice and a few others.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: after all....
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/14a3f56f651c44c9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 2:51 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article <4C8253E3.3E162E37@sandiegozoo.org>,
Magilla Gorilla <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:

> I don't see why Floyd was allowed to file this lawsuit. After all,
> cycling is "just entertainment."
>
> Jackasses.

* Some people do not get that it is entertainment.

* People _in_ the entertainment _business_ sue each other all the time.

* You are entertained by all this.

Ooohhhhhh, and you thought you had us all out-thought again.

--
Old Fritz

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 3...2...1
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/392608eee5266884?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 3:03 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article
<a4c1bc5a-82bd-43a2-95ab-1ccb8a9d0abe@l20g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
RicodJour <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote:

> On Sep 4, 11:54 am, Fred Flintstein <bob.schwa...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net>
> wrote:
> > Magilla Gorilla wrote:
> >
> > > You've got to shred the credibility of 3 people, not one.
> >
> > > Good luck - you'll need it,
> >
> > It's all he said/she said. Your late season form sucks.
> > You should be posting about the Vuelta, tuning up for
> > Worlds.
>
> Can we contact his doctor and get his meds changed? He was a lot
> funnier and more acerbic on the previous regimen...on the bright side,
> his reasoning always was for shit.

His reasoning is fine. Even when people mostly agree
with him he treats everybody as oblivious idiots.
When he is wrong he never owns up. Fortress mentality.

--
Old Fritz

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Today is 20th Anniversary of John Frey's 47:35 40K in MoriartyNew
Mexico
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/cba9a2ba200acaf6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 3:11 pm
From: Jeff Jones


On Sep 4, 2:47 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 4, 12:57 am, Jeff Jones <drjone...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 4, 3:07 am, Fred on a stick <anonymous.cow...@address.invalid>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On 9/3/2010 4:06 PM, Scott wrote:
>
> > > > Moriarty was, back in the day, the perfect place for a TT record
> > > > attempt.  Super smooth road, pancake flat, perfectly aligned to take
> > > > advantage of prevailing winds, and high enough elevation to reduce
> > > > wind resistance but not so high as to affect performance.  Sort of the
> > > > 'perfect storm' of TT venues.
>
> > > Moriarty is pancake flat, but pancakes aren't that flat -- I can detect
> > > the slope with VE (about 32 meters over 18 km). Anyway, the NCNCA TT
> > > course in Sattley, CA just got resurfaced. It's a tad lower (5000 ft)
> > > but the surface is like buttah.
>
> > Americans should take a leaf out of UK time trialling's rule book.
> > Specifically the rule that says the start and finish have to be within
> > 1.5 miles of each other. That's as the crow flies - there is no rule
> > about a maximum elevation difference so you end up with courses like
> > this:  http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/R25-3L(click'show ->
> > elevation profile')
>
> > The start is on a lumpy back road with a poor surface but once you get
> > onto the dual carriageway you drop down 150m and don't have to come
> > back up. That makes it 'fast'.
>
> > The UK 25 mile competition record was broken on the R25/3L last year
> > with 45'54 by Dave McCann (AFAIK Wiggins, Millar, Thomas et al have
> > never ridden it - they would go even quicker).
>
> > Chris Boardman had the previous record at 45'57, which he'd held since
> > 1993. That was on a course without a massive elevation difference,
> > just a hell of a lot of traffic.
>
> USAC rules already state that for record purposes, a TT course must be
> an out-and-back.

That sounds sensible. There's not much in the way of altitude in the
UK so we have to find other ways of making amateurs look good :-)


== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 4:45 pm
From: drmofe


On Sep 3, 1:52 am, Choppy Warburton <choppywarbur...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Like Jesse Owens and Bob Beamon's long jumps - the record still stands
> 20+ years later.
>
> Congratulations to John.

Chris Boardman still holds the UK 25m (40km) ITT record set in 1993 at
45:57
I think it is the longest-standing cycling record in the UK also.
If you want longevity - try Alf Engers, set the 25m record in 1959 at
55:11 and then set it again in 1978 at 49:24 (that one stood for 12
years).

/not subscribing to the "rough road = slow road" theory
/subscribing to the "something in the water back then" theory


== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 6:05 pm
From: Choppy Warburton


hell of a lot of traffic = hell of a lot of cars to draft and glean
wind from

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 6:08 pm
From: Fred on a stick


On 9/4/2010 4:45 PM, drmofe wrote:

> /not subscribing to the "rough road = slow road" theory

Rough roads are slow -- but not that slow.


== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 7:00 pm
From: Phil H


On Sep 3, 11:57 pm, Jeff Jones <drjone...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 4, 3:07 am, Fred on a stick <anonymous.cow...@address.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > On 9/3/2010 4:06 PM, Scott wrote:
>
> > > Moriarty was, back in the day, the perfect place for a TT record
> > > attempt.  Super smooth road, pancake flat, perfectly aligned to take
> > > advantage of prevailing winds, and high enough elevation to reduce
> > > wind resistance but not so high as to affect performance.  Sort of the
> > > 'perfect storm' of TT venues.
>
> > Moriarty is pancake flat, but pancakes aren't that flat -- I can detect
> > the slope with VE (about 32 meters over 18 km). Anyway, the NCNCA TT
> > course in Sattley, CA just got resurfaced. It's a tad lower (5000 ft)
> > but the surface is like buttah.
>
> Americans should take a leaf out of UK time trialling's rule book.
> Specifically the rule that says the start and finish have to be within
> 1.5 miles of each other. That's as the crow flies - there is no rule
> about a maximum elevation difference so you end up with courses like
> this:  http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/R25-3L(click 'show ->
> elevation profile')
>
> The start is on a lumpy back road with a poor surface but once you get
> onto the dual carriageway you drop down 150m and don't have to come
> back up. That makes it 'fast'.
>
> The UK 25 mile competition record was broken on the R25/3L last year
> with 45'54 by Dave McCann (AFAIK Wiggins, Millar, Thomas et al have
> never ridden it - they would go even quicker).
>
> Chris Boardman had the previous record at 45'57, which he'd held since
> 1993. That was on a course without a massive elevation difference,
> just a hell of a lot of traffic.

So, does the traffic assist the rider, ie does it go by in the same
direction creating an airflow assist?

Phil H

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Vuelta a Espana, stage 8 summary
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3a4cb28ffb0461ed?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 3:12 pm
From: Frederick the Great


In article <Wmwgo.29359$Q_3.6479@newsfe27.ams2>,
Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> wrote:

> Stage 8 : Sep 4, Villena - Xorret del Cati–, 190 km
>
> 1 David Moncoutie (Fra) Cofidis, le credit en ligne 5.14.32
> 2 Serafin Martinez (Spa) Xacobeo Galicia 0.54
> 3 Johann Tschopp (Swi) BBOX Bouygues Telecom
> 4 Jose-Luis Arrieta (Spa) Ag2R-La Mondiale
> 5 Joaquin Rodriguez (Spa) Team Katusha 1.29
> 6 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas-Doimo
> 7 Igor Anton (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi
> 8 Assan Bazayev (Kaz) Astana 1.32
> 9 Xavier Tondo (Spa) Cervelo Test Team
> 10 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Cervelo Test Team 1.35
>
>

What happened to Serafin Martinez?
Simply not as strong as David Moncoutié?
Did his attempt to cover the break
by José Luis Arrieta at the foot of
the last climb take something out of him?

--
Old Fritz

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fatty Masters National Championships in Frisco this week
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/29dcebe0940ad055?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 4:52 pm
From: Phil H


On Sep 3, 8:20 pm, Fred on a stick <anonymous.cow...@address.invalid>
wrote:
> On 9/3/2010 7:34 PM, Phil H wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 3, 6:56 pm, Fred on a stick<anonymous.cow...@address.invalid>
> > wrote:
> >> On 9/3/2010 10:48 AM, Phil H wrote:
>
> >>> OK, I don't use PCs anymore per se but I can train with regular cranks
> >>> in the same way. Example: I'll do a 30 minute workout fairly hard by
> >>> just pulling up on the cranks. On long climbs I'll pull up and push
> >>> down. Having trained my legs to pedal like this, I really don't need
> >>> the cranks anymore. When racing I consciously pull up on the cranks
> >>> when the hammer goes down.
>
> >> Hmmm. Did you use PC's after that little stint around 10 years ago?
>
> > I quit using them when I quit racing in 2003 although I never stopped
> > training hard or using the same pedaling technique. I would still ride
> > in the local weekly hammerfest.
> > This year I started racing again (60+) and eventually got under the
> > hour for a 40K TT. On a good day I'm about 1 mph slower than I was 10
> > years ago. What is your interest in PCs and were you "Fred on a Stick"
> > 10 years ago?
> > Phil H
>
> Ah, sorry, I forgot I was posting under that name. I guess it would've
> been clearer if I'd used "chung on a stick" but I was rolling with the
> Fred theme.
>
> I was just wondering whether you'd been using PCs all this time, or if
> you'd stopped. Remember a couple of years ago when I mentioned that
> Frank was trying to get some riders together to do a test? That didn't
> turn out so well.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, now I know who you are. Frank's proposed setup for that test was
heading towards an invalid result. I pondered doing it but decided not
to because, well, a lot of work for an invalid result. Do you have any
details on how it turned out exactly?

Phil H


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 5:43 pm
From: Fred on a stick


On 9/4/2010 4:52 PM, Phil H wrote:
> Frank's proposed setup for that test was
> heading towards an invalid result. I pondered doing it but decided not
> to because, well, a lot of work for an invalid result. Do you have any
> details on how it turned out exactly?

Mostly invalid. Frank says that no one followed his protocol -- and, in
fact, most of the people to whom he sent PCs never even returned them
after the year was up. The one guy who made regular reports of his
experiences concluded that .... well, if you have some time to kill you
can read it yourself, beginning here:
http://james-p-smith.blogspot.com/2008_06_01_archive.html
and then skipping around to the "conclusion" post a year later.

Frank has said that because James didn't use them exclusively his
results should be ignored. OTOH, James did return the PCs at the end of
the year.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 6:23 pm
From: Phil H


On Sep 4, 5:43 pm, Fred on a stick <anonymous.cow...@address.invalid>
wrote:
> On 9/4/2010 4:52 PM, Phil H wrote:
>
> > Frank's proposed setup for that test was
> > heading towards an invalid result. I pondered doing it but decided not
> > to because, well, a lot of work for an invalid result. Do you have any
> > details on how it turned out exactly?
>
> Mostly invalid. Frank says that no one followed his protocol -- and, in
> fact, most of the people to whom he sent PCs never even returned them
> after the year was up. The one guy who made regular reports of his
> experiences concluded that .... well, if you have some time to kill you
> can read it yourself, beginning here:http://james-p-smith.blogspot.com/2008_06_01_archive.html
> and then skipping around to the "conclusion" post a year later.
>
> Frank has said that because James didn't use them exclusively his
> results should be ignored. OTOH, James did return the PCs at the end of
> the year.

He returned them! Must be worth at least -.02 on a p value :)
Wow, he did a lot of write up on PCs. As AC once said (to me), thank
you for your n = 1 study.

Phil H

==============================================================================
TOPIC: In a Muslim Country - Andre Jute would stone women
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/45b175d2fcae8084?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 4:59 pm
From: Jay Beattie


On Sep 4, 1:37 pm, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sep 4, 6:53 pm, Jay Beattie <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 3, 10:46 pm, Radey Shouman <shou...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > > "MikeWhy" <boat042-nos...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> [snip]
>
> > >  In which part of the world, Mike,
> > > are you fortunate enough to Ride Bike?  If I've overstepped my bounds,
> > > please at least tell us whether it's Winter or Summer there.
>
> > > For my part it's late Summer, the time when one begins to smell concord grapes
> > > from time to time by the roadside.
>
> > Around here, it's blackberries -- although I fear it's now post-prime
> > blackberry season, and I haven't gotten out to pick a few pounds so my
> > wife can make a blackberry pie.  I only have to go about 500 yards
> > from my house to get to a good, productive bush that always yields a
> > few pies each season.
>
> > When I lived in California, I would ride past strawberry fields around
> > Hecker Pass -- it was like riding through a jar of jam.  I do a ride
> > around here that goes past a cilantro field, which is interesting.
> > Vinyards are big going over Chehalem Mountain, but I can't smell the
> > grapes.
>
> > The SCV in California is a lot more fragrant than PDX with all the Bay
> > and Eucalyptus and dry grass.  Forest duff and fir stands have kind of
> > a wet smell, but otherwise, riding around here is relatively unscented
> > unless I ride through suburbia on laundry day. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> I enjoyed that post, Jay. I liked California when worked out of SF and
> LA. But here, while we have blackberrries in the hedgerows in
> profusion, the major sensual impacts are hearing water in the streams
> -- many lanes have a stream each side! -- and feeling it on your skin,
> not necessarily cold enough to be uncomfortable. The rare really pushy
> smells are offensive -- slurry, for instance (it's liquid cow manure).
> -- AJ- Hide quoted text -

I ride through farmland where they pump that stuff through giant
sprinklers. I would assume that aerosolizing animal waste is a huge
health hazard. -- Jay Beattie.l


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 6:02 pm
From: Choppy Warburton


Sorry guys Anton kicked your ass intellectually speaking. Including
the 4 yr degree psychologist that probably makes $37,000 a year
listening to depressed prison inmates at the county jail.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Time Wasting of Jute
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/429ffb24ca0c4a7e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 5:59 pm
From: Frank Krygowski


On Sep 4, 5:18 pm, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Frank Krygowski has now had a day to respond to my request ...

The problem with ignoring a refractory, obnoxious troll is that he can
pretend it isn't deliberate.

- Frank Krygowski


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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

Buzz It
rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* 3...2...1 - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/392608eee5266884?hl=en
* Floyd to Lance & Co: Oh yeah? Fuck You (Again) - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e9ec95092dc4cef9?hl=en
* TEENIE GIRLS - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/52c9e63fd00a11b8?hl=en
* Here's the slow learner Frank Krygowski's big chance - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/429ffb24ca0c4a7e?hl=en
* Hey Marco, Groupies and Kim Anderson in Gran Fondo? - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4a9e2052953c39ee?hl=en
* Pursuit Record Falls at Frisco Velodrome ! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/19f2c7ca91e3cb87?hl=en
* In a Muslim Country - Andre Jute would stone women - 6 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/45b175d2fcae8084?hl=en
* after all.... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/14a3f56f651c44c9?hl=en
* Where was the post about Cervelo disbanding ? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/aba0e2f4563789e9?hl=en
* Vuelta a Espana, stage 8 summary - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3a4cb28ffb0461ed?hl=en
* Lance: Is OCLAESP a new undetectable EPO? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c644b69936f1e1e9?hl=en
* My book by Floyd - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7b113bd3f00b2f24?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 3...2...1
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/392608eee5266884?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 10:06 am
From: RicodJour


On Sep 4, 11:54 am, Fred Flintstein <bob.schwa...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net>
wrote:
> Magilla Gorilla wrote:
>
> > You've got to shred the credibility of 3 people, not one.
>
> > Good luck - you'll need it,
>
> It's all he said/she said. Your late season form sucks.
> You should be posting about the Vuelta, tuning up for
> Worlds.

Can we contact his doctor and get his meds changed? He was a lot
funnier and more acerbic on the previous regimen...on the bright side,
his reasoning always was for shit.

R


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 11:43 am
From: DA74


On Sep 4, 8:54 am, Fred Flintstein <bob.schwa...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net>
wrote:
> Magilla Gorilla wrote:
> > You've got to shred the credibility of 3 people, not one.
>
> > Good luck - you'll need it,
>
> Dumbass,
>
> It's all he said/she said. Your late season form sucks.
> You should be posting about the Vuelta, tuning up for
> Worlds.
>
> Fred Flintstein

Good point. No one's ever been indicted let alone convicted on "he
said/she said" evidence. With guys like you on his side, Lance is sure
to skate through this FDA, Fed, Justice Dept and Postal Inspector
investigation. I'll just go ahead and shut the fuck up if you don't
mind.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Floyd to Lance & Co: Oh yeah? Fuck You (Again)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e9ec95092dc4cef9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 10:11 am
From: BLafferty


On 9/4/2010 1:02 PM, RicodJour wrote:
> On Sep 4, 12:37 pm, Davey Crockett<r...@azurservers.com> wrote:
>> BLafferty a écrit profondement:
>>
>> | But, the big question is, will Lance cry in public like Tricky Dick?
>>
>> But everybody loved Spotted Dick
>>
>> Nobody loves Lance
>
> Comments such as that make me question my beliefs.
> I thought you were from 'overseas' now I'm beginning to suspect you're
> from outer space.
>
> R

Now you reveal just how provincial you are. Dick was loved by virtually
every house wife in France. That's quite different from being loved by
every bimbo, wanna be slut in the US. You need to travel more.


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 10:18 am
From: Davey Crockett


RicodJour a écrit profondement:

| On Sep 4, 12:37 pm, Davey Crockett <r...@azurservers.com> wrote:

| > But everybody loved Spotted Dick
| >
| > Nobody loves Lance
>
| Comments such as that make me question my beliefs.
| I thought you were from 'overseas' now I'm beginning to suspect you're
| from outer space.
>

With a bit of luck, Super Wanker will get the Tony Bliar treatment next
time he jumps on a platform.

(Tony Bliar was pelted with shoes and rotten eggs at a book signing
yesterday) Davey hopes most were direct hits

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2010/9/4/1283597624444/Tony-Blairs-first-signing-006.jpg

--
Davey Crockett


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 2:20 pm
From: "Beloved Fred No. 1"


BLafferty wrote:
> That's quite different from being loved by every bimbo, wanna be slut in the US.

You sound jealous (of the wanna-be bimbos and sluts that is).


==============================================================================
TOPIC: TEENIE GIRLS
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/52c9e63fd00a11b8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 10:20 am
From: Raquel MELIN


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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Here's the slow learner Frank Krygowski's big chance
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/429ffb24ca0c4a7e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 10:21 am
From: RobertH


On Sep 4, 9:01 am, Opus <opusthep...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 3, 8:51 pm, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >snip<
> > You've had five or six goes at proving your claims now, Frank, and
> > each time you've made a fool of yourself, as did your sidekicks
> > McNamara and Lee. So why don't you get a copy of the report, read it,
> > and give us a complete list of these alleged "weaknesses" that you
> > keep whining about. Specifics, Franki-boy, specifics, not smoke-
> > tarnished insinuations. Here's the report:
> > http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/episrv/episrv-bike-report.pdf
> > and here are extracts from it...
> > • Most fatal crashes (74%) involved a head injury.
> > • Nearly all bicyclists who died (97%) were not wearing a helmet.
> > • Helmet use was only 3% in fatal crashes, but 13% in non-fatal
> > crashes
> > ...from which the obvious conclusion may be drawn that helmets save
> > lives.
>
> > I look forward to your final list of alleged "weaknesses", Franki-boy.
> > Trying to teach an incorrigible slow learner like you statistics is
> > getting boring.
>
> > Andre Jute
> > Krygo, he say, Any old number is good number
>
> Actually I read that of the fatality statistics, all 4 of the cyclists
> known to have been wearing helmets when killed were in the 49% of head
> injury only fatalities, which indicates that helmets are useless in
> preventing fatalities.
>
> I also read that during the study period, helmet usage among the
> general population of cyclists averaged 22% while among the cyclists
> that had wrecks 13% with survivable injuries and 3% with non-
> survivable injuries were wearing helmets, which indicates that wearing
> styrofoam hats has magical properties to ward off wrecks. Or, what is
> more likely is that cyclists that voluntarily wear helmets are also
> more defensive cyclists who pay more attention to their surroundings
> and avoid having wrecks.
>
> And as for you not suggesting that helmets be made mandatory, might I
> redirect your attention to the thread titled A Case for Mandatory
> Helmet Laws you started a few days back? The internet has a short
> attention span, but a very long memory...


Opus has written the first post in this thread that demonstrates any
braincells whatsoever. Here's hoping it's a thread killer.


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 1:57 pm
From: Andre Jute


This post exchange because Opus hasn't read the material on which he
comments, and tries to substitute street corner gossip for facts.

On Sep 4, 4:01 pm, Opus <opusthep...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 3, 8:51 pm, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >snip<
> > You've had five or six goes at proving your claims now, Frank, and
> > each time you've made a fool of yourself, as did your sidekicks
> > McNamara and Lee. So why don't you get a copy of the report, read it,
> > and give us a complete list of these alleged "weaknesses" that you
> > keep whining about. Specifics, Franki-boy, specifics, not smoke-
> > tarnished insinuations. Here's the report:
> >  http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/episrv/episrv-bike-report.pdf
> >  and here are extracts from it...
> > • Most fatal crashes (74%) involved a head injury.
> > • Nearly all bicyclists who died (97%) were not wearing a helmet.
> > • Helmet use was only 3% in fatal crashes, but 13% in non-fatal
> > crashes
> > ...from which the obvious conclusion may be drawn that helmets save
> > lives.
>
> > I look forward to your final list of alleged "weaknesses", Franki-boy.
> > Trying to teach an incorrigible slow learner like you statistics is
> > getting boring.
>
> > Andre Jute
> >  Krygo, he say, Any old number is good number
>
> Actually I read that of the fatality statistics, all 4 of the cyclists
> known to have been wearing helmets when killed were in the 49% of head
> injury only fatalities, which indicates that helmets are useless in
> preventing fatalities.

4? Please give the source for the claims in this paragraph.

> I also read that during the study period, helmet usage among the
> general population of cyclists averaged 22%

22%. I would have thought higher. Please give us the source from which
you obtained this information.

>while among the cyclists
> that had wrecks 13% with survivable injuries and 3% with non-
> survivable injuries were wearing helmets, which indicates that wearing
> styrofoam hats has magical properties to ward off wrecks.

Yes, but better than garlic? And what about the voles under the
hedgerows?

>Or, what is
> more likely is that cyclists that voluntarily wear helmets are also
> more defensive cyclists who pay more attention to their surroundings
> and avoid having wrecks.

Right, a hidden benefit.

> And as for you not suggesting that helmets be made mandatory, might I
> redirect your attention to the thread titled A Case for Mandatory
> Helmet Laws you started a few days back? The internet has a short
> attention span, but a very long memory...

Here is the entire original text of "THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE
HELMET LAW
(IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)
by Andre Jute". You are invited actually to read it all the way
through, and the section "THE CASE AGAINST MANDATORY HELMET LAWS"
twice -- oops, what's that, "the case against" as well? -- rather than
just guess at the contents; you will todiscover for yourself that the
article gives honest data and then proceeds to list the arguments of
both camps -- and does NOT conclude with any recommendation for or
against. If you can find any passage where I advise a mandatory helmet
law, do tell.

****

THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW
(IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)
by Andre Jute

It is a risible myth that your average American is a tall-walking free
individual untrammeled by government: he is in fact just as much
constricted as a European soft-socialist consumerist or Japanese
collective citizen, though it is true that the American is controlled
in different areas of his activity than the European or the Japanese.
To some the uncontrolled areas of American life, for instance the
ability to own and use firearms, smacks of barbarism rather than
liberty. In this article I examine whether the lack of a mandatory
bicycle helmet law in the USA is barbaric or an emanation of that
rugged liberty more evident in rhetoric than reality.

Any case for intervention by the state must be made on moral and
statistical grounds. Examples are driving licences, crush zones on
cars, seatbelts, age restrictions on alcohol sales, and a million
other interventions, all now accepted unremarked in the States as part
of the regulatory landscape, but all virulently opposed in their day.


HOW DANGEROUS IS CYCLING?
Surprisingly, cycling can be argued to be "safe enough", given only
that one is willing to count the intangible benefits of health through
exercise, generally acknowledged as substantial. Here I shall make no
effort to quantify those health benefits because the argument I'm
putting forward is conclusively made by harder statistics and
unexceptional general morality.

In the representative year of 2008, the last for which comprehesive
data is available, 716 cyclists died on US roads, and 52,000 were
injured.

Source: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

The most convenient way to grasp the meaning of these statistics is to
compare cycling with motoring, the latter ipso facto by motorists'
average mileage accepted by most Americans as safe enough.

Compared to a motorist a cyclist is:
11 times MORE likely to die PER MILE travelled
2.9 times MORE likely to die PER TRIP taken

By adding information about the relative frequency/length/duration of
journeys of cyclists and motorists, we can further conclude that in
the US:

Compared to a motorist, a cyclist is:
3 to 4 times MORE likely to die PER HOUR riding
3 to 4 times LESS likely to die IN A YEAR's riding

Source:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.ta.org.br/site/Banco/7manuais/VTPIpuchertq.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGyEjHFrJThRTYB53Wt7vubHxju7Q

It is the last number, that the average cyclist is 3 to 4 times less
likely to die in a year's riding than a motorist, and enjoys all the
benefits of healthy exercise, that permits us to ignore the greater
per mile/per trip/per hour danger.

This gives us the overall perspective but says nothing about wearing a
cycling helmet.


HELMET WEAR AT THE EXTREME END OF CYCLING RISK

What we really want to know is: what chance of the helmet saving your
life? The authorities in New York made a compilation covering the
years 1996 to 2003 of all the deaths (225) and serious injuries
(3,462) in cycling accidents in all New York City. The purpose of the
study was an overview usable for city development planning, not helmet
advocacy, so helmet usage was only noted for part of the period among
the seriously injured, amounting to 333 cases. Here are some
conclusions:

• Most fatal crashes (74%) involved a head injury.
• Nearly all bicyclists who died (97%) were not wearing a helmet.
• Helmet use was only 3% in fatal crashes, but 13% in non-fatal
crashes

Source:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/episrv/episrv-bike-report.pdf

This concatenation of facts suggests very strongly that not wearing a
helmet may be particularly dangerous.

• It looks like wearing a helmet saved roundabout 33 cyclists or so
(of the 333 seriously injured for whom helmet use is known) from
dying.
• If those who died wore helmets at the same rate of 13% as those in
the study who survived, a further 22 or so could have lived.
• If all the fatalities had been wearing a helmet (100%), somewhere
between 10% and 57% of them would have lived. This number is less firm
to allow for impacts so heavy that no helmet would have saved the
cyclist. Still, between 22 and 128 *additional* (to the 33 noted
above) New Yorkers alive rather than dead for wearing a thirty buck
helmet is a serious statistical, moral and political consideration
difficult to overlook.


SO HOW MANY CYCLISTS CAN HELMETS SAVE ACROSS THE NATION?
New York is not the United States but we're not seeking certainly,
only investigating whether a moral imperative for action appears.

First off, the 52,000 cyclists hurt cannot be directly related to the
very serious injuries which were the only ones counted in the New York
compilation. But a fatality is a fatality anywhere and the fraction of
head injuries in the fatalities is pretty constant.

So, with a caution, we can say that of 716 cycling fatalities
nationwide, helmet use could have saved at least 70 and very likely
more towards a possible upper limit of around 400. Again the
statistical extension must be tempered by the knowledge that some
impacts are so heavy that no helmet can save the cyclist. Still, if
even half the impacts resulting in fatal head trauma is too heavy for
a helmet to mitigate, possibly around 235 cyclists might live rather
than die on the roads for simply wearing a helmet. Every year. That's
an instant reduction in cyclist road fatalities of one third. Once
more we have arrived at a statistical, moral and political fact that
is hard to ignore: Helmet wear could save many lives.


THE CASE AGAINST MANDATORY HELMET LAWS

• Compulsion is anti-Constitutional, an assault on the freedom of the
citizen to choose his own manner of living and dying
• Many other actitivities cause fatal head injuries. So why not insist
they should all be put in helmets?
• 37% of bicycle fatalities involve alcohol, and 23% were legally
drunk, and you'll never get these drunks in helmets anyway
• We should leave the drunks to their fate; they're not real cyclists
anyway
• Helmets are not perfect anyway
• Helmets cause cyclists to stop cycling, which is a cost to society
in health losses
• Many more motorists die on the roads than cyclists. Why not insist
that motorists wear helmets inside their cars?
• Helmets don't save lives -- that's a myth put forward by commercial
helmet makers
• Helmets are too heavily promoted
• Helmet makers overstate the benefits of helmets
• A helmet makes me look like a dork
• Too few cyclists will be saved to make the cost worthwhile


THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY HELMET LAW IN THE STATES
• 235 or more additional cyclists' lives saved
• 716 deaths of cyclists on the road when a third or more of those
deaths can easily be avoided is a national disgrace
• Education has clearly failed
• Anti-helmet zealots in the face of the evidence from New York are
still advising cyclists not to wear helmets
• An example to the next generation of cyclists
• A visible sign of a commitment to cycling safety, which may attract
more people to cycling

© Copyright Andre Jute 2010. Free for reproduction in non-profit
journals and sites as long as the entire article is reproduced in full
including this copyright and permission notice.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 2:18 pm
From: Andre Jute


Frank Krygowski has now had a day to respond to my request to "give us
a complete list of these alleged 'weaknesses' that you keep whining
about" in the New York compilation. Zero from Krygowski except more
muttered smoke in posts to others. In that time Krygowski has sent 8
messages to this thread, so he cannot claim not to have seen the
request. Krygowski, one is therefore justified in concluding, is a
wannabe backstabber and a coward. Ran, rabbit, run.

On Sep 4, 2:51 am, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Granted, if a person really cannot see the
> > weaknesses in something like the report Jute cites,
>
> You've had five or six goes at proving your claims now, Frank, and
> each time you've made a fool of yourself, as did your sidekicks
> McNamara and Lee. So why don't you get a copy of the report, read it,
> and give us a complete list of these alleged "weaknesses" that you
> keep whining about. Specifics, Franki-boy, specifics, not smoke-
> tarnished insinuations. Here's the report:
>  http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/episrv/episrv-bike-report.pdf
>  and here are extracts from it...
> • Most fatal crashes (74%) involved a head injury.
> • Nearly all bicyclists who died (97%) were not wearing a helmet.
> • Helmet use was only 3% in fatal crashes, but 13% in non-fatal
> crashes
> ...from which the obvious conclusion may be drawn that helmets save
> lives.
>
> I look forward to your final list of alleged "weaknesses", Franki-boy.
> Trying to teach an incorrigible slow learner like you statistics is
> getting boring.
>
> Andre Jute
>  Krygo, he say, Any old number is good number


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hey Marco, Groupies and Kim Anderson in Gran Fondo?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4a9e2052953c39ee?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 10:24 am
From: "Mr. Slate"


So some idiot almost took out Kim Anderson in the Solvang century ride. Now
you got the Gran Fondo avertising come ride along with Kim Anderson? I'm
guessing a dozen of horny idiots are libel to clip her spokes about five or
10 times before the ride is over. Maybe she should wear elbow and knee pads?

http://tinyurl.com/2vw8dfh


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 12:30 pm
From: Fred on a stick


On 9/4/2010 10:24 AM, Mr. Slate wrote:
> So some idiot almost took out Kim Anderson in the Solvang century ride. Now
> you got the Gran Fondo avertising come ride along with Kim Anderson? I'm
> guessing a dozen of horny idiots are libel to clip her spokes about five or
> 10 times before the ride is over. Maybe she should wear elbow and knee pads?

Hi Bruce.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 12:42 pm
From: "Mr. Slate"


Fred on a stick wrote:
> On 9/4/2010 10:24 AM, Mr. Slate wrote:
>> So some idiot almost took out Kim Anderson in the Solvang century
>> ride. Now you got the Gran Fondo avertising come ride along with Kim
>> Anderson? I'm guessing a dozen of horny idiots are libel to clip her
>> spokes about five or 10 times before the ride is over. Maybe she
>> should wear elbow and knee pads?
>
> Hi Bruce.

Marco.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pursuit Record Falls at Frisco Velodrome !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/19f2c7ca91e3cb87?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 10:53 am
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"

"Brad Anders" <pbanders@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9ffe50b2-2d3a-4a8c-95f1-1c56966a4689@p37g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 2, 7:01 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> "Anton Berlin" <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:259126e6-f025-49f9-8768-c427f8d070a0@x42g2000yqx.googlegroups.com...
> : In the 75+ age group Richard Simons set a new record yesterday.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> From a fitness standpoint, riding a bike @ 75 years old sounds attractive
> until one considers: crashing.
>
> People whom are that old have a tendency to break if they fall down in
> their
> living room.
>
> A college friend of mine's 70 year old stepfather died in a solo crash.
> Dude's neck broke.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

:: By the time we're 75, you'll be able to take some dope that will make
:: your bones harder than stainless steel. I'm also hoping for some good
:: dope that will give me a VO2max at 75 that's better than it is today.
::
:: Better living through chemicals.


Dumbass -

What do you think is the correct age to start loading up on the chemicals
due to not caring about long term side effects?

I can hardly wait. That'll be a fun day.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: In a Muslim Country - Andre Jute would stone women
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/45b175d2fcae8084?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 10:53 am
From: Jay Beattie


On Sep 3, 10:46 pm, Radey Shouman <shou...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "MikeWhy" <boat042-nos...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > Here, you're obviously connoting a judgement of good or bad, right or
> > wrong, with "normality." I made no such judgement of Anton.
>
> It seems a shame to waste time on such dry psychological topics in what
> is, after all, a cycling newsgroup.  In which part of the world, Mike,
> are you fortunate enough to Ride Bike?  If I've overstepped my bounds,
> please at least tell us whether it's Winter or Summer there.
>
> For my part it's late Summer, the time when one begins to smell concord grapes
> from time to time by the roadside.

Around here, it's blackberries -- although I fear it's now post-prime
blackberry season, and I haven't gotten out to pick a few pounds so my
wife can make a blackberry pie. I only have to go about 500 yards
from my house to get to a good, productive bush that always yields a
few pies each season.

When I lived in California, I would ride past strawberry fields around
Hecker Pass -- it was like riding through a jar of jam. I do a ride
around here that goes past a cilantro field, which is interesting.
Vinyards are big going over Chehalem Mountain, but I can't smell the
grapes.

The SCV in California is a lot more fragrant than PDX with all the Bay
and Eucalyptus and dry grass. Forest duff and fir stands have kind of
a wet smell, but otherwise, riding around here is relatively unscented
unless I ride through suburbia on laundry day. -- Jay Beattie.


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 11:11 am
From: Dan O


On Sep 4, 10:53 am, Jay Beattie <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote:
> On Sep 3, 10:46 pm, Radey Shouman <shou...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > "MikeWhy" <boat042-nos...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > > Here, you're obviously connoting a judgement of good or bad, right or
> > > wrong, with "normality." I made no such judgement of Anton.
>
> > It seems a shame to waste time on such dry psychological topics in what
> > is, after all, a cycling newsgroup. In which part of the world, Mike,
> > are you fortunate enough to Ride Bike? If I've overstepped my bounds,
> > please at least tell us whether it's Winter or Summer there.
>
> > For my part it's late Summer, the time when one begins to smell concord grapes
> > from time to time by the roadside.
>
> Around here, it's blackberries -- although I fear it's now post-prime
> blackberry season...

Way past. The end of July into mid-August are the best berries. Not
the most, but the best. Relatively few are ripe then, but they are
the best. At first it's only the single big one at the very tip of
each cane that is ready.

Yeah, it's right around then that you start smelling them as you ride
past on the road.

> ..., and I haven't gotten out to pick a few pounds so my
> wife can make a blackberry pie.

Pie and cobbler can add sugar to the less prime fruit and make it
sweeter, but still - that wonderful berry flavor is best in the early
ones.

> I only have to go about 500 yards
> from my house to get to a good, productive bush that always yields a
> few pies each season.
>
> When I lived in California, I would ride past strawberry fields around
> Hecker Pass -- it was like riding through a jar of jam. I do a ride
> around here that goes past a cilantro field, which is interesting.
> Vinyards are big going over Chehalem Mountain, but I can't smell the
> grapes.
>

It always gets the attention of my nose when a truck passes with a
load of ripe strawberries.

> The SCV in California is a lot more fragrant than PDX with all the Bay
> and Eucalyptus and dry grass. Forest duff and fir stands have kind of
> a wet smell, but otherwise, riding around here is relatively unscented
> unless I ride through suburbia on laundry day.

I know that smell, too.

I ride through a lot of farmland, so smells and a knowledge of where
they are can be a very accurate indicator of prevailing breezes.


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 11:34 am
From: "MikeWhy"


"Tom Sherman °_°" <twshermanREMOVE@THISsouthslope.net> wrote in message
news:i5tcb1$r8k$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 9/3/2010 11:27 PM, MikeWhy Who? wrote:
>> Tom Sherman °_° wrote:
>>> On 9/3/2010 5:59 PM, MikeWhy Who? wrote:
>>>> Anton Berlin wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Usually this desire to control and repress others comes from massive
>>>>> internal conflict within the person wanting others to behave and
>>>>> think like they do.
>>>> ...
>>>>> Andr[é] should focus on the ...
>>>>> Or maybe he should ...
>>>>> Maybe Andre should just ...
>>>> ...
>>>>> Seek therapy - you will not find happiness until you learn that
>>>>> happiness comes from controlling yourself and not from trying to
>>>>> control others.
>>>>
>>>> From the outside looking in, methinks Anton suffers from classic
>>>> Freudian projection.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> And you ("MikeWhy") think that the Usenet behavior of The André Jute
>>> indicates normality?
>>
>> Here, you're obviously connoting a judg[]ment of good or bad, right or
>> wrong, with "normality."
>
> Jumping to conclusions part of your exercise program?
>
>> I made no such judg[]ment of Anton. Further, I
>> find Andr[é] no more or less normal than anyone else here.
>
> You think posting new threads insulting everyone that has even a mild
> disagreement with you to be normal Usenet behavior? It is certainly not
> normal - can you even cite another poster who has done so?
>
>> This tatters of
>> a newsgroup would be a lesser place without his contributions.
>
> Lesser volume perhaps, but hardly any loss of content. Other than the odd
> post about lights or his hermaphrodite frame Kranich, what does Mr. Jute
> contribute that is not destructive? My having been around here for a
> while, I will state that RBT was more on-topic with better discussions
> prior to Mr. Jute's arrival.
>
>> If the
>> question is instead, would I loan him my keyboard if his should shatter
>> and break, or my voice should he lack the words (that's a joke, son),
>> the answer is certainly yes, without hesitation.
>
> Keyboards are cheap enough I suppose you could let bonobos [1] (i.e. the
> "Mini-André's) use them.

What am I, your Magic 8-Ball? Your disorders and shortcomings evidenced in
this one post are even more glaring and grievous than Andre's in his
previous 50 posts. Your world clearly would be less without him.

There's little enough to say about bicycles. I understand that. There is
little also to say about rides and riding that hasn't already been said a
few thousand times too many to sound anything but trite. And so we talk
about bicyclists instead. But even here, we fail because we are too diverse
and dispassionate a group. So we invent little factions and go about what
man does naturally and best, bludgeon each other's figments with the tools
we find on hand. Fancy words and each others' insecurities are all we have.
Even that has to get dull to the point of tears at some point.

My rides lately, to put it blandly, have been completely boring. It's the
same two hundred miles or so of trails that I've ridden over and over. There
are some places I haven't been yet, but the destinations are small compared
to the journey, and the journey is through the ugliest roads and traffic
imaginable for bicycles. Only the foolhardy go there, with or without a hat.

Radey, it's the Labor Day weekend here, and the weather today and yesterday
are uncharacteristically cool, in the 60's after a long unbroken run of 80's
and 90's. I live in Carol Stream, IL, about 25 miles west of Chicago. In a
few minutes, I'm headed out to ride a 60 mile loop I've ridden too many
times in the recent past, so I'm doing it only for the pain, and allevation
of the pain of not riding. My destination is nearby Algonquin, which has the
only 100' 10% climb within riding distance of my home. I'll do a few brief
intervals, maybe chitchat briefly with the roadies who gravitate there, and
then cruise home on the Fox River Trail and behind DuPage Airport. The heavy
rain and strong winds 3 nights ago likely left the limestone rail trails a
mess of washouts and softly packed fill. It promises to be a spectacularly
fine day.

I'll hold onto my public anonymity a little while longer, but might break
that silence in the next few days, to ask for your monetary support in the
form of voluntary contributions. Next weekend is the Sub-5 Century in nearby
Hampshire, benefitting Parkinson's research. I'll wait and see how the legs
feel today. I haven't been on a bike in quite a long time, you see, aside
from riding long enough to teach my kids how to ride 10 years ago. Next week
will be exactly 5 months since getting back in the saddle, on April 16,
after 30 years of not riding.


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 12:11 pm
From: Frank Krygowski


On Sep 4, 1:53 pm, Jay Beattie <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote:
> On Sep 3, 10:46 pm, Radey Shouman <shou...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > "MikeWhy" <boat042-nos...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > > Here, you're obviously connoting a judgement of good or bad, right or
> > > wrong, with "normality." I made no such judgement of Anton.
>
> > It seems a shame to waste time on such dry psychological topics in what
> > is, after all, a cycling newsgroup.  In which part of the world, Mike,
> > are you fortunate enough to Ride Bike?  If I've overstepped my bounds,
> > please at least tell us whether it's Winter or Summer there.
>
> > For my part it's late Summer, the time when one begins to smell concord grapes
> > from time to time by the roadside.
>
> Around here, it's blackberries -- although I fear it's now post-prime
> blackberry season, and I haven't gotten out to pick a few pounds so my
> wife can make a blackberry pie.  

My favorite is early to mid summer, when the mulberry trees are
producing. There have been hundreds of times my bike ride has come to
a sudden halt to enjoy the sweet fruit. Those events are among my
daughter's pleasant childhood memories - and come to think of it, her
adult memories as well!

- Frank Krygowski


== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 12:23 pm
From: Frank Krygowski


On Sep 4, 2:34 pm, "MikeWhy" <boat042-nos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> There's little enough to say about bicycles. I understand that. There is
> little also to say about rides and riding that hasn't already been said a
> few thousand times too many to sound anything but trite.
...
> I haven't been on a bike in quite a long time, you see, aside
> from riding long enough to teach my kids how to ride 10 years ago. Next week
> will be exactly 5 months since getting back in the saddle, on April 16,
> after 30 years of not riding.

Hmm. So you're really not very interested in bicycles and bicycling,
and you haven't paid attention to bicycling or bicycling issues for 30
years.

If I were in that position, I wouldn't debate anybody. I'd assume
that there was learning I needed to do, and I'd be reading and
learning instead of typing.

- Frank Krygowski


== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 1:37 pm
From: Andre Jute


On Sep 4, 6:53 pm, Jay Beattie <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote:
> On Sep 3, 10:46 pm, Radey Shouman <shou...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > "MikeWhy" <boat042-nos...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
[snip]
>
> >  In which part of the world, Mike,
> > are you fortunate enough to Ride Bike?  If I've overstepped my bounds,
> > please at least tell us whether it's Winter or Summer there.
>
> > For my part it's late Summer, the time when one begins to smell concord grapes
> > from time to time by the roadside.
>
> Around here, it's blackberries -- although I fear it's now post-prime
> blackberry season, and I haven't gotten out to pick a few pounds so my
> wife can make a blackberry pie.  I only have to go about 500 yards
> from my house to get to a good, productive bush that always yields a
> few pies each season.
>
> When I lived in California, I would ride past strawberry fields around
> Hecker Pass -- it was like riding through a jar of jam.  I do a ride
> around here that goes past a cilantro field, which is interesting.
> Vinyards are big going over Chehalem Mountain, but I can't smell the
> grapes.
>
> The SCV in California is a lot more fragrant than PDX with all the Bay
> and Eucalyptus and dry grass.  Forest duff and fir stands have kind of
> a wet smell, but otherwise, riding around here is relatively unscented
> unless I ride through suburbia on laundry day. -- Jay Beattie.

I enjoyed that post, Jay. I liked California when worked out of SF and
LA. But here, while we have blackberrries in the hedgerows in
profusion, the major sensual impacts are hearing water in the streams
-- many lanes have a stream each side! -- and feeling it on your skin,
not necessarily cold enough to be uncomfortable. The rare really pushy
smells are offensive -- slurry, for instance (it's liquid cow manure).
-- AJ

==============================================================================
TOPIC: after all....
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/14a3f56f651c44c9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 10:56 am
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"

"Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
news:4C8253E3.3E162E37@sandiegozoo.org...
:I don't see why Floyd was allowed to file this lawsuit. After all,
: cycling is "just entertainment."
:
: Jackasses.

Jackass -

Cycling is just entertainment and the entertainment industry has all sorts
of litigation.

Googling "entertainment lawyer" ressulted in 2.7 million results.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where was the post about Cervelo disbanding ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/aba0e2f4563789e9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 11:36 am
From: "Mr. Slate"


Carl Sundquist wrote:
> On Sep 3, 1:53 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>> "Fredmaster of Brainerd" <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:eb5d17a1-23fe-4247-a0e8-a3b020b05ae4@h37g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 3, 4:29 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
>> wrote:> "raamman" <raam...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>>> news:83c6d51b-03a0-43d0-83f4-d355409cbd91@j18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>> You guys are so busy 69ing each other, this ng is about bike racing
>>>> you know
>>
>>> Nor any posts about Schlecks on Treks. Or the number of ProTour
>>> teams that likely don't have a future.
>>
>> ============
>> Cervelo disbanding was mentioned in the Thor thread.
>> In general, bike manufacturers aren't big enough
>> businesses to be lead sponsors of a road team,
>> especially Protour.
>>
>> As for Schlecks on Treks, Mike, I'd think you would be a
>> good candidate to explain Trek's aims with that. They've
>> been heavily identified with LANCE and US-sponsor
>> teams, is this a statement that they now have enough
>> identity in the European market that they see a need to
>> keep sponsoring a team that races in Europe?
>>
>> Every year around this time there are several
>> Protour teams without a future. I don't know if this
>> year is more than usual. The economy mostly
>> sucks except in Germany, AFAICT; that can't help.
>>
>> Fredmaster
>> ===========
>>
>> You're spot-on.
>>
>> Trek wants two things. First, a spot at the top of the podium, or at
>> least a
>> darned good run at it. And second, absolutely they want that euro
>> buy-in.
>> Lance actually did surprisingly well in that regard, but it's time
>> to move
>> on. 2009 was phenomenal, 2010 was a tour too far. There are no more
>> huge
>> American cycling phenoms on the horizon (well, OK, Phinney is huge,
>> but his
>> future is in the classics, not stage races). The Schlecks bring a
>> new (and
>> much larger than I expected) fan base to Trek.
>>
>> Plus it will be fun to ask Americans to find Luxemborg on a map.
>>
>> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
>> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> Don't forget Trek sponsored the LANCEless Astana in 2007 and 2008.
>
> Replace the word Phinney with Armstrong (for the same age).

Hi Snarl,

What's missing in all of this very quietly is they are chucking the men and
keeping the women! Ha, ha! Add, Women's teams in the Pro Tour!
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/columns/story?columnist=ford_bonnie_d&id=5522888

However, it's wishful thinking that Mara Abbott would sign a contract with
Celvelo. Add to that, two best climbers on the same team? Never!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Vuelta a Espana, stage 8 summary
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3a4cb28ffb0461ed?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 11:38 am
From: Bob Martin

Stage 8 : Sep 4, Villena - Xorret del Cati­, 190 km

1 David Moncoutie (Fra) Cofidis, le credit en ligne 5.14.32
2 Serafin Martinez (Spa) Xacobeo Galicia 0.54
3 Johann Tschopp (Swi) BBOX Bouygues Telecom
4 Jose-Luis Arrieta (Spa) Ag2R-La Mondiale
5 Joaquin Rodriguez (Spa) Team Katusha 1.29
6 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas-Doimo
7 Igor Anton (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi
8 Assan Bazayev (Kaz) Astana 1.32
9 Xavier Tondo (Spa) Cervelo Test Team
10 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Cervelo Test Team 1.35


Changes in GC, stage 8 compared to stage 7 :

Biggest gainers by position :
+32 Philip Deignan
+32 Mauricio Ardila
+30 Jose Vicente Toribio
+29 Stefan Denifl
+29 Oscar Freire
+24 David Zabriskie
+22 Dominik Roels
+21 Jose-Luis Arrieta
+21 Jose Vincente Garcia Acosta
+18 Rinaldo Nocentini

Biggest losers by position :
-24 Enrico Gasparotto
-21 Mikael Cherel
-19 Pablo Urtasun
-18 Jean-Christophe Peraud
-16 Vincent Jerome
-14 Daniele Bennati
-14 Manuele Mori
-14 Xavier Florencio
-13 Allan Davis
-13 Danilo Hondo
-13 Manuel Ortega

Biggest gainers by time :
+2:03 David Moncoutie
+0:57 Serafin Martinez
+0:53 Johann Tschopp
+0:51 Jose-Luis Arrieta
+0:10 Vincenzo Nibali
+0:10 Joaquin Rodriguez
+0:10 Igor Anton
+0:09 Assan Bazayev
+0:07 Xavier Tondo
+0:04 Carlos Sastre

Biggest losers by time :
-19:24 Andreas Stauff
-19:24 Dominik Klemme
-19:24 Fabian Cancellara
-19:24 Sergio Carrasco
-19:12 Allan Davis
-19:12 Arnaud Labbe
-19:12 Benat Intxausti
-19:12 Christophe Riblon
-19:12 Daniele Righi
-19:12 Danilo Hondo
-19:12 David Vitoria

Favourites by position :
+24 David Zabriskie
+4 Carlos Sastre
+4 Andy Schleck
+3 Xavier Tondo
+3 Ruben Plaza
+3 Ezequiel Mosquera
+1 Vincenzo Nibali
+1 Joaquin Rodriguez
+1 Christian Vande Velde
-1 Luis-Leon Sanchez
-3 David Arroyo
-4 Roman Kreuziger
-5 Frank Schleck
-6 Denis Menchov
-13 Allan Davis

Favourites by time :
+0:10 Vincenzo Nibali
+0:10 Joaquin Rodriguez
+0:07 Xavier Tondo
+0:04 Carlos Sastre
-0:21 Ruben Plaza
-0:23 Ezequiel Mosquera
-0:57 Luis-Leon Sanchez
-0:57 Frank Schleck
-0:57 David Arroyo
-2:05 Denis Menchov
-6:33 Roman Kreuziger
-6:33 Andy Schleck
-8:03 David Zabriskie
-14:07 Christian Vande Velde
-19:12 Allan Davis

Top 10 and favourites GC standings (previous stage in parens) :
1 Igor Anton 32:28:49 (was 2nd at 0:10)
2 Joaquin Rodriguez 0:00 (was 3rd at 0:10)
3 Vincenzo Nibali 0:02 (was 4th at 0:12)
4 Xavier Tondo 0:42 (was 7th at 0:49)
5 Marzio Bruseghin 1:10 (was 12th at 1:01)
6 Ruben Plaza 1:15 (was 9th at 0:54)
7 Ezequiel Mosquera 1:18 (was 10th at 0:55)
8 Nicholas Roche 1:19 (was 11th at 0:58)
9 Peter Velits 1:26 (was 5th at 0:16)
10 Tejay Van Garderen 1:26 (was 6th at 0:29)
.....
13 Frank Schleck 1:47 (was 8th at 0:50)
.....
16 David Arroyo 1:58 (was 13th at 1:01)
17 Carlos Sastre 2:11 (was 21st at 2:15)
18 Luis-Leon Sanchez 2:21 (was 17th at 1:24)
.....
20 Denis Menchov 3:16 (was 14th at 1:11)
.....
49 Roman Kreuziger 13:10 (was 45th at 6:37)
.....
87 Andy Schleck 36:33 (was 91st at 30:00)
.....
120 Allan Davis 54:45 (was 107th at 35:33)
121 Christian Vande Velde 55:15 (was 122nd at 41:08)
.....
163 David Zabriskie 1:12:24 (was 187th at 1:04:21)

Top 10 on Points table with previous in parens:
1 Mark Cavendish 56 (unchanged)
2 Tyler Farrar 53 (unchanged)
3 Alessandro Petacchi 51 (unchanged)
4 Igor Anton 50 (was 5th with 41 points)
5 Philippe Gilbert 50 (was 4th with 50 points)
6 Joaquin Rodriguez 46 (was 6th with 34 points)
7 Vincenzo Nibali 44 (was 7th with 34 points)
8 Yauheni Hutarovich 33 (unchanged)
9 Koldo Fernandez De Larrea 30 (unchanged)
10 Daniele Bennati 28 (unchanged)

Top 10 on Mountains table with previous in parens:
1 Serafin Martinez 36 (was 1st with 13 points)
2 David Moncoutie 26 (was 3rd with 6 points)
3 Dario Cataldo 8 (was 2nd with 8 points)
4 Johann Tschopp 7 (was 0 points)
5 Xavier Tondo 5 (was 4th with 5 points)
6 Vladimir Karpets 5 (was 5th with 5 points)
7 Niki Terpstra 5 (was 6th with 5 points)
8 Egoi Martinez 5 (was 7th with 5 points)
9 Sergio Carrasco 5 (was 8th with 5 points)
10 Oscar Pujol 3 (was 0 points)

Retirements to date : Stage
Branislau Samoilau (Blr) Quick Step 8 <<<
Ian Stannard (GBR) Team Sky 8 <<<
Kjell Carlstrom (Fin) Team Sky 8 <<<
Lars-Petter Nordhaug (Nor) Team Sky 8 <<<
Peter Kennaugh (GBR) Team Sky 8 <<<
Simon Gerrans (Aus) Team Sky 8 <<<
Thomas Lofkvist (Swi) Team Sky 8 <<<
Juan-Antonio Flecha (Spa) Team Sky 7
Bernhard Eisel (Aut) Team HTC-Columbia 4
Benjamin Swift (GBR) Team Sky 3
John-Lee Augustyn (RSA) Team Sky 3
Arkaitz Duran (Spa) Footon-Servetto 2
Mickael Buffaz (Fra) Cofidis, le credit en ligne 2
Total retirements : 13


(This report can also be seen at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rvmartin2)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lance: Is OCLAESP a new undetectable EPO?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c644b69936f1e1e9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 12:10 pm
From: DA74


No. Sorry to get you excited. It's the French version of the party
wreckers. And I think they might just have your DNA on a blood bag.
You better hope no one in the four separate agencies investigating you
don't have any frequent flier miles left:

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4837/Tour-de-France-OCLAESP-investigation-from-2009-still-ongoing.aspx


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 12:25 pm
From: BLafferty


On 9/4/2010 3:10 PM, DA74 wrote:
> No. Sorry to get you excited. It's the French version of the party
> wreckers. And I think they might just have your DNA on a blood bag.
> You better hope no one in the four separate agencies investigating you
> don't have any frequent flier miles left:
>
> http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4837/Tour-de-France-OCLAESP-investigation-from-2009-still-ongoing.aspx

Colonel Thierry Bourret told the newspaper that he would not comment on
a current case. However he spoke a little about the OCLAESP, saying that
there is more than one person involved when any sportsman decides to dope.

"We realize that doping is similar in most successful cases to a new
form of organized crime," he stated.

"First of all, you have a prescriber, the person who gives a doping
protocol. It could be a doctor who lost his way. Then, the supplier of
products, most commonly diverted drugs. That could be done via stolen
products or forged prescriptions. Sometimes you have a provider, one who
brings the goods ... Then a facilitator, because some things like blood
transfusions cannot be done alone. And finally, someone who will help
you monitor the parameters, making sure they are normal so that you may
not be detected."

With Interpol now involved in the current Floyd Landis enquiry, the
OCLAESP investigation might tie in to the overall push to discover what
exactly went on in the sport.

Read more:
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4837/Tour-de-France-OCLAESP-investigation-from-2009-still-ongoing.aspx#ixzz0yafzRaqf

==============================================================================
TOPIC: My book by Floyd
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7b113bd3f00b2f24?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 2:31 pm
From: Michael Press


In article <RpydnWHgEdswTRzRnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@sti.net>,
"Mr. Slate" <LikeFlint@NoSpammers.com> wrote:

> Davey Crockett wrote:
> > coterock a écrit profondement:
> >
> >> I wonder if I should file a lawsuit against Landis. After all, I
> >> was defrauded because, on his own admission, the book that I bought "
> >> Positively False" is full of lies. If he is going to profit by being
> >> a vindictive bottom feeder, then I want my money back.
> >>
> >> I was deceived, and I want compensation.
> >
> > Get Laffery to file a Class Action ;)
>
> Maybe Floyd going to use the money he gets from his whistleblower lawsuit to
> pay them back? Act of conscious?
> http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=5529667

Looks as if Floyd Landis will never give up. This ride
of his continues to get more interesting; and he cannot
be busted for wearing a patch.

--
Michael Press


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