rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=enrec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Krygowski's "polished talking points" are politics, not truth - 2 messages,
2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/429ffb24ca0c4a7e?hl=en
* My book by Floyd - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7b113bd3f00b2f24?hl=en
* Original Bruce meltdown thread? - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/be3cf2385466fe37?hl=en
* Floyd to Lance & Co: Oh yeah? Fuck You (Again) - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e9ec95092dc4cef9?hl=en
* 3...2...1 - 8 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/392608eee5266884?hl=en
* after all.... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/14a3f56f651c44c9?hl=en
* The smart play for whistle blowing Floyd - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/93b9d62ad5c24d72?hl=en
* Liz Hatch didn't get the cover... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/64fe4327558cdca5?hl=en
* An argument that should've worked on a Bush-era judge - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4636e5feb49051f6?hl=en
* Today is 20th Anniversary of John Frey's 47:35 40K in MoriartyNew Mexico - 2
messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/cba9a2ba200acaf6?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Krygowski's "polished talking points" are politics, not truth
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/429ffb24ca0c4a7e?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 5:37 pm
From: James
On Sep 6, 10:20 am, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sep 6, 12:29 am, James <james.e.stew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 6, 4:54 am, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 5, 7:29 pm, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Sep 5, 8:55 am, Frank Krygowski <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > <snip>
>
> > > > You don't know so much as you think you do.
> > > > This is some serious knee-jerk adversarialism you're locked into.
> > > > Just because you've stuffed a big bag full of data and polished (and
> > > > polished, and polished) a bunch of talking points doesn't make you
> > > > right or anyone else wrong.
>
> > > Anyone with "polished (and polished, and polished) [...] talking
> > > points" is an obsessed apparatchik who *needs* to polish those
> > > received "talking points" because he can't think for himself.
>
> > You know, I've heard it said "You can't polish shit." The Myth
> > Busters tried, but they weren't very successful.
>
> > JS.
>
> I used to work in advertising. Occasionally one would hear somone brag
> that he could "sell any old shit". I wouldn't ever hire those because,
> besides reasons of professional pride and principle, I thought they
> were bullshitters. Nobody can polish shit, as you say. But Krygowski
> got away with chanting his idiotic mantras so long that I can't help
> wondering how many obsessed wishful thinkers (i.e. really stupid
> people) there are in cycling. -- Andre Jute
The problem with salesmen (and women) who can "sell any old shit" is
that often they sell what customers want, rather than what the sales
team agreed to and the engineers designed. Happened all too often
from a certain salesman in the US who worked for the company where I
worked before. "Yeah, I've sold another 10 units, but they need
feature X implemented before the end of tomorrow."
Then there's the engineers who don't realise that all constants should
be treated as variables, so that feature X could be just a tweak of
setting B, insertion of module M, and a new menu entry in XML doc F.
Sorry - rambling. FK and coffee should not be taken together. Well
aged port would be better.
JS.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 9:04 pm
From: Andre Jute
Rolling on floor picking up cat hair on my vicuna sweater, absolutely
creaming myself laughing.
This is a must-read post. Never mind the offense Krygowski gives even
as he tries to ameliorate poor Danno, who just wanted someone to
admire and chose wrong, but read between the lines -- and all over
them -- for what Franki-boy tells us about himself. Have you ever even
heard -- never mind met! -- anyone so lacking in self-awareness as
this? How can anyone get himself -- the face in the bathroom mirror
every morning! -- so utterly, completely, grossly, grotesquely,
bizarrely wrong?
Kimberley! (Largest manmade hole in the world...)
Andre Jute
Master psychologist, master of character -- but I never dreamt it
could go this far
On Sep 6, 4:00 am, Frank Krygowski <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 5, 2:28 pm, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 5, 8:55 am, Frank Krygowski <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 5, 1:53 am, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I am curious about everything. I didn't say I don't want to learn.
> > > > Sure I do. I just don't find this stuff that you're carrying on about
> > > > that interesting or compelling.
>
> > > Then why are you reading?
>
> > To learn (gasp!) - in particular to gain greater understanding of how
> > bikes work and are put together...
>
> You misunderstand, Dan. I'm not asking why you are reading the
> threads about how bikes work and are put together. If you're
> specifically uninterested in facts about helmets, why are you reading
> helmet threads?
>
> Usenet and Google Groups has no requirement that you read every post.
> Skip the ones you aren't interested in. Don't argue in them, then say
> you won't read facts others raise, because they aren't interesting.
>
> > I've said again and again that I think a lot of what you say is right.
>
> > Please cite my disagreement with a fact.
>
> If you're not disagreeing, stop haranguing me!
>
> > Great! Keep up the good work. More power to you.
>
> > (But you're preaching to the choir here...
>
> I believe many people reading this have joined the choir, so to
> speak. It used to be different, as I recall. That is, there used to
> be many more claiming that helmets were wonderful and necessary, and
> we used to get many more statements that helmets should be mandatory.
> Now the latter statements are rare indeed, and many more people tend
> to agree with the helmet skeptics. Many have said they changed from
> helmet believers to skeptics because of the data posted and linked
> here.
>
> However, it's perfectly clear that Jute, James and Duane are not part
> of this choir. If they are the least bit skeptical about the absolute
> need for and the wonderful effectiveness of helmets, they are hiding
> it amazingly well.
>
> Which, BTW, I wouldn't care about, if they didn't challenge others
> with their views. Again, most people I ride with wear helmets most of
> the time, and I don't challenge them. Most of them also know not to
> challenge me, since they agree they know far less about this than I
> do. We get along just fine, with rare exceptions. But when someone
> does challenge me, or presents to me an argument explaining why they
> are right and I am wrong, yes, I respond. I find it surprising that
> you think I should do otherwise.
>
> > ...and doing it in a smarmily supercilious, condescending, judgmental fashion.
>
> And I'll repeat what I've said before: You are absolutely incapable
> of telling when I'm being condescending, smarmy or supercilious. You,
> Jute and Sornson are about the only ones who have ever accused me of
> such. OTOH, I've gotten e-mails complimenting me on my patience with
> helmet promoters, complimenting me on being one of the most civil
> posters here, saying they hope I keep posting, etc.
>
> Your misinterpretation of my tone is, I believe, a shortcoming of the
> medium. "Tone of voice" doesn't come across, so to speak; and once a
> reader gets into their minds "He's being condescending," then they
> mentally add a condescending tone to words others would never object
> to. I think that's where you are. And I'm sorry if you feel that's
> offensive, but for the life of me I can't think of a gentler way to
> say it.
>
> People _must_ be allowed to disagree without being lectured for some
> imagined "tone of voice." If that's not allowed, someone might as
> well shut down all discussion groups.
>
> > > Yes, many people are absolutely convinced that
> > > cycling should be considered potentially deadly, and never attempted
> > > without head protection. This has gotten far worse since helmets
> > > became promoted, _because_ of the dishonest ways helmets are
> > > promoted.
>
> > But I'm not *any* of that.
>
> And you've got to stop personalizing everything! When I talk about
> "many people" it's not necessarily - or even usually - "many people
> in these discussion groups," let alone you personally. The people who
> have successfully lobbied for helmet laws in over 30 U.S. states, and
> are still trying in other jurisdictions, are not posting here. That
> does not mean they don't exist! Likewise, Jute probably believes
> things you would find ludicrous - at least, I hope you would. Don't
> confuse yourself with him. In fact, to go further, PLEASE keep
> yourself very different from him!
>
> > You're not Pope of this dump, either.
>
> Back atcha, friend.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
==============================================================================
TOPIC: My book by Floyd
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7b113bd3f00b2f24?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 12:30 pm
From: BLafferty
On 9/5/2010 10:55 AM, Magilla Gorilla wrote:
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
>> "Magilla Gorilla"<m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
>> news:4C823BB3.4ABC01F4@sandiegozoo.org...
>> : coterock wrote:
>> :
>> :> I wonder if I should file a lawsuit against Landis. After all, I was
>> :> defrauded because, on his own admission, the book that I bought "
>> :> Positively False" is full of lies. If he is going to profit by being a
>> :> vindictive bottom feeder, then I want my money back.
>> :>
>> :> I was deceived, and I want compensation.
>> :
>> : Just because someone lies to you doesn't mean you were "defrauded."
>>
>> Dumbass -
>>
>> I would say that the $1million+ obtained by the Floyd Fairness Fund was by
>> means of fraud.
>>
>> The money was raised on the pretense that he was clean and the victim of a
>> false positive.
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> No, the money was raised to pay his legal team to give him a fair trial.
> This actual innocence foundation people are no claiming although articulated
> by Fraud, was not contractually bound by way of those donations. Surely the
> donors knew there was a serious likelihood that he was guilty and was lying
> given that so many pros who fight their doping positives ultimately end up
> being found guilty.
>
> Also, there was no contract or explicit terms offered by Landis to donors.
> There was simply a website that asked people to donate. Where is the fraud?
> Fraud implies there was a contract term violated by one party to another..
> But there was no contract between Fraud and his stupid, gullible donors.
>
> So you might have a breach of personal integrity issue here, but no legal
> case of fraud.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Magilla
>
Indeed, the fund helped Floyd get a fair hearing which he lost.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 7:02 pm
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"
"Amit Ghosh" <amit.ghosh@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6bc73864-62b8-42c0-b729-9f8617a7b642@j18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 5, 10:55 am, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> So you might have a breach of personal integrity issue here, but no legal
> case of fraud.
::dumbass,
::
::to determine if it is fraud requires a closer examination of the
::applicable laws.
::
::there was a case here recently where a woman pretended to have cancer
::and was able raise thousands of dollars in donations. she was charged
::with fraud the verdict is still pending but i imagine she will be
::found guilty.
::
::the FFF is analogous. if landis had stated his current version of the
::truth ("I doped my entire euro career but didn't take T during the
::tour") he would not have gotten the same level of support. so it's
::likely there's a basis for criminal charges.
Dumbass -
Not only would he not have gotten the same level of support - he would not
have received any support whatsoever.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Original Bruce meltdown thread?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/be3cf2385466fe37?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 1:13 pm
From: "Mr. Slate"
A. Dumas wrote:
> Can anybody find it in the archives? Thanks. Can't remember if I said
> anything to trigger it. Brucie is dragging it up on another forum,
> very tiring.
Yes you are boring too but stick with rbr. It's Philly Sucks but I have made
no mention of it anyway. I frequent other forums, plenty of space out there,
rbr is mostly doping theads, good for laughs. Kunich actually clamped down
on rbr much, much more then I ever had, so chill.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 6:16 pm
From: Brad Anders
On Sep 5, 1:13 pm, "Mr. Slate" <LikeFl...@NoSpammers.com> wrote:
> A. Dumas wrote:
> > Can anybody find it in the archives? Thanks. Can't remember if I said
> > anything to trigger it. Brucie is dragging it up on another forum,
> > very tiring.
>
> Yes you are boring too but stick with rbr. It's Philly Sucks but I have made
> no mention of it anyway. I frequent other forums, plenty of space out there,
> rbr is mostly doping theads, good for laughs. Kunich actually clamped down
> on rbr much, much more then I ever had, so chill.
Who did the call-out? Very impressive.
Brad Anders
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 1:33 pm
From: Magilla Gorilla
"A. Dumas" wrote:
> Can anybody find it in the archives? Thanks. Can't remember if I said
> anything to trigger it. Brucie is dragging it up on another forum, very
> tiring.
I'm surprised Bruce didn't flip out when Prop 8 was overturned by the
federal judge.
Magilla
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 7:04 pm
From: ronaldo_jeremiah
On Sep 5, 3:13 pm, "Mr. Slate" <LikeFl...@NoSpammers.com> wrote:
> A. Dumas wrote:
> > Can anybody find it in the archives? Thanks. Can't remember if I said
> > anything to trigger it. Brucie is dragging it up on another forum,
> > very tiring.
>
> Yes you are boring too but stick with rbr. It's Philly Sucks but I have made
> no mention of it anyway. I frequent other forums, plenty of space out there,
> rbr is mostly doping theads, good for laughs. Kunich actually clamped down
> on rbr much, much more then I ever had, so chill.
When Kunich is required for the mere possibility of a favorable
comparison, it's a sure sign you're in trouble.
-rj
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Floyd to Lance & Co: Oh yeah? Fuck You (Again)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e9ec95092dc4cef9?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 3:10 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"
"Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
news:4C83B100.B57FC7FB@sandiegozoo.org...
> --D-y wrote:
>
>> On Sep 4, 7:23 am, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
>> > Philip wrote:
>> > > On Sep 3, 11:50?pm, "Mr. Slate" <LikeFl...@NoSpammers.com> wrote:
>> > > > DA74 wrote:
>> > > > > Whistleblower Lawsuit against the whole crew. Ouch.
>> >
>> > > > >http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/09/03/2010-09-03_s...
>> >
>> > > > Ha, I was just reading
>> > > > this...http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=5529667
>> >
>> > > > But how much money could Landis potentially recieve?
>> >
>> > > I hope that if Floyd recovers anything that his donors sue him
>> > > and
>> > > take that money back.
>> >
>> > It was called the Floyd Fairness Fund, not the Floyd Innocence
>> > Fund.
>> >
>> > Where did Landis ever guarantee to donors that he was actually
>> > innocent and offer them a
>> > money-back return? He never did that.
>>
>> Maggie: What happened to the high dudgeon IRT "Fraud Landis"? And
>> Lafferty's admiration for Lemond, in spite of strongly suspecting he
>> was a doper, too. You guys are such shameless whores.
>>
>
> I just love the way Fraud is giving a beating to everyone. That is
> why he is my hero. He is a
> very angry chimp right now, ripping the faces off the monkeys in
> cycling. That's what this sport
> needs - new people in charge since the current ones are complete
> jackasses and imbeciles.
>
> At least now, Fraud is telling the truth. So his beatdowns are
> righteous.
>
> Like Lemon D, I have extended a hand of forgiveness to Fraud. He is
> now the Amish Annihilator.
> He's like that little kid from Witness who grew up and decided to kick
> the shit out of the corrupt
> Philadelphia pole-eece department.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Magilla
His "beatdowns" are not "righteous" so long as he continues to
embellish the "truth" with lies and exaggerations. I had detailed
earlier the specifics involving his (recent) absurd allegations
regarding having to use second-rate equipment on the team. The guy can't
help himself. Neither, apparently, can many others.
It's so bizarre. Floyd may have a credible case for doping in the
peloton & team, but he fills in the details, backward, with stories that
sound like things that might have happened if that's the case. Other
people here do the same thing.
The facts are going to be interesting enough in themselves. They don't
need embellishment, and exaggerations only make it less likely that the
facts, what really happened, won't have the credibility they should.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 3:00 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"
"BLafferty" <Brian@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:0eadnb0Qd9RTKR7RnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> On 9/4/2010 11:38 PM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> "BLafferty"<Brian@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:hpednXyG7INd4B_RnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> On 9/4/2010 1:02 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>>>> On Sep 4, 12:37 pm, Davey Crockett<r...@azurservers.com> wrote:
>>>>> BLafferty a écrit profondement:
>>>>>
>>>>> | But, the big question is, will Lance cry in public like Tricky
>>>>> Dick?
>>>>>
>>>>> But everybody loved Spotted Dick
>>>>>
>>>>> Nobody loves Lance
>>>>
>>>> Comments such as that make me question my beliefs.
>>>> I thought you were from 'overseas' now I'm beginning to suspect
>>>> you're
>>>> from outer space.
>>>>
>>>> R
>>>
>>> Now you reveal just how provincial you are. Dick was loved by
>>> virtually every house wife in France. That's quite different from
>>> being loved by every bimbo, wanna be slut in the US. You need to
>>> travel more.
>>
>> That's both uncalled for and untrue. The Lance haters see what they
>> want
>> to see, and nothing more. The Lance fanatics, the same. There's a
>> middle
>> ground in which the truth resides. Lance was not just respected but
>> adored by a great many in France for his fame (which carries a lot of
>> weight regardless of how it's been achieved) and accomplishments. Not
>> everybody in France is infatuated with the latest L'Equippe scandal
>> stories. People in the countryside come from miles around to see the
>> spectacle and cheer on the winners, regardless of who those winners
>> are.
>> But I guess I wouldn't be in a position to know anything about that.
>> I've only been to the TdF 10 times, spending most of that time out of
>> the big cities, talking with locals in seriously-dreadful French,
>> reading the local papers...
>>
>> Lance makes headlines here for his lifestyle, but most don't give a
>> rat's tail about it. At least not in Europe.
>>
>> As for Virenque, it has to be seen to be believed. It's a lot of
>> things,
>> including redemption of the fallen, the hope for the "everyman" that
>> you
>> can come back, that it's not a crime to be flawed. Virenque makes
>> them
>> feel better about themselves. Some would say the French worship the
>> losers, but that's not really it, it's the heroic battle, and since
>> there will always be more heroic losers than winners, well, they're
>> just
>> being practical.
>>
>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
> You haven't a clue as to what it was in France for Dick prior to
> Festina. Totally different from Armstrong worship here.
Just a bit earlier you said this-
>>>That's quite different from
>>> being loved by every bimbo, wanna be slut in the US. You need to
>>> travel more.
You need to get out more. When was the last time you rode a bike? I
recommend it highly. Maybe you can channel some of that energy into
something positive instead of name-calling & stereotyping women. Maybe
you might see things from a different perspective and actually consider,
oh, I can see why someone might think that, maybe I can have a
conversation with that person that won't devolve to the level seen after
far too many beers.
It's one thing to bait people to get a reaction. It's another to say
that someone's wrong if they don't see things the same way you do and
slander any woman who's a fan of Lance as you have. There are degrees,
gray areas, things that aren't binary. Very surprising that someone who
suggests that people "travel more" wouldn't see that.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 7:24 pm
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd
On Sep 5, 11:19 am, BLafferty <Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 9/5/2010 1:56 AM, Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
> > On Sep 4, 10:28 pm, BLafferty<Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >> On 9/4/2010 7:04 PM, Davey Crockett wrote:
>
> >>> You show me a Rope, a Lamp Post and Tony Bliar and I'll show you Justice
> >>> in double quick time. And no Long Drop - let him have 20 minutes or so to
> >>> repent his sins before he chokes whilst the crowd taunt him like these
> >>> brave boys taunting a poor defenseless Arab Woman
>
> >>>http://www.kawther.info/wpr/wp-content/uploads/criminals.jpg
>
> >>> He's committed Conspiracy to wage Agressive war
> >>> He's Waged Agressive War
> >>> He's committed War Crimes
> >>> He's commited Crimes Against Humanity
>
> >>> Any one of which would have got him hung by the Nuremberg Kangaroo
> >>> Kourt
>
> >> He's a war criminal. Same with Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Rice and a few others.
>
> > I think those characters are rotten, but neither of you
> > understands the difference between vengeance and
> > justice.
>
> > Fredmaster Ben
>
> Then by all means explain it to us, Fucktard.
You're kidding, right? Maybe it's a damn good thing
you left the legal profession.
Vengeance is what they did to Mussolini, or the Tsar,
or Leo Frank. Mussolini deserved it, but it still wasn't
justice. Justice was dispensed at the Nuremberg
courts. You can have vengeance without justice.
I would think that a liberal who had lived in the South might
understand why jokes about ropes, lamp posts, and
justice are lame.
Fredmaster Ben
==============================================================================
TOPIC: 3...2...1
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/392608eee5266884?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 6:29 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"
"Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
news:4C83C089.24C55079@sandiegozoo.org...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
>> "Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
>> news:4C825986.C3F3069B@sandiegozoo.org...
>> > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Anton Berlin" <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:3c780a2a-83d9-4727-a41a-267481ade417@x42g2000yqx.googlegroups.com...
>> >> > Philip,
>> >> >
>> >> > But certainly you have an open enough mind to see why Stephanie
>> >> > would
>> >> > have changed her story based on pressure from employer and her
>> >> > need
>> >> > for good insurance for her child?
>> >> >
>> >> > And Betsy has always been steadfast and consistent - have you
>> >> > ever
>> >> > heard the radio interviews? I would trust her without
>> >> > reservation
>> >> > on
>> >> > practically any matter while I don't think I'd trust Lance on
>> >> > any
>> >> > matter all the way down to pet-sitting a goldfish.
>> >>
>> >> You've never met her, you don't reference knowing anything about
>> >> her
>> >> from
>> >> any other source than a radio interview(s), and that was enough
>> >> that
>> >> you
>> >> would "trust her without reservation on practically any matter."
>> >>
>> >> That blows me away. I have no reason not to trust her, but it
>> >> takes
>> >> more
>> >> than a good radio interview for me to trust someone (or something)
>> >> "without
>> >> rservation."
>> >>
>> >> I haven't heard the interviews, but am certainly curious to now,
>> >> since it
>> >> appears she's capable of casting one heck of a spell over people.
>> >>
>> >> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>> >> Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> >> www.ChainReaction.com
>> >> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>> >
>> > I don't care that you're playing devil's advocate, but you better
>> > not
>> > actually
>> > be insinuating that you don't think Lance is guilty as shit and a
>> > major league
>> > liar. Lance doped hundreds of times throughout his career. If you
>> > can't see
>> > that, then there's something seriously wrong with you.
>> >
>> > And don't talk about Betsy Andreu unless you explain to me how come
>> > Stephanie
>> > McIlvain said she heard the same thing. She's Lance's fucking
>> > agent
>> > at Oakley
>> > for crying out loud. What motivation does she have to lie?
>> >
>> > And then you also have to explain why Frankie Andreu is lying. For
>> > you to
>> > simply make it sound like Betsy is the only one saying it....you're
>> > not
>> > entitled to change the facts. And the facts are that 3 people said
>> > they heard
>> > Lance say it.
>> >
>> > You've got to shred the credibility of 3 people, not one.
>> >
>> > Good luck - you'll need it,
>> >
>> > Magilla
>>
>> No playing devil's advocate involved. I'm just pointing out how
>> people
>> see & hear what they want to, on both sides, and become binary. No
>> more
>> reasoning involved. No gray areas. At some point they made up their
>> minds about the final outcome, and construct their own scenario of
>> everything in-between.
>>
>> C'mon, wrap your brain around this-
>>
>> >> > And Betsy has always been steadfast and consistent - have you
>> >> > ever
>> >> > heard the radio interviews? I would trust her without
>> >> > reservation
>> >> > on
>> >> > practically any matter while I don't think I'd trust Lance on
>> >> > any
>> >> > matter all the way down to pet-sitting a goldfish.
>>
>> Sure, I might not trust Lance with my goldfish either (if I had one).
>> Could turn out that goldfish are a masking agent for all I know. But
>> how
>> did Betsy Andreu cast such a spell over that poster?
>>
>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> You keep trying to make the entire case contingent on Betsy Andreu,
> and it's
> not. It's about Stephanie McIlvain...Frankie Andreu..Emma
> O'Reilly..Fraud
> Landis...the 8 positive EPO tests from the '99 Tour...the Ferrari
> association....and whoever else came clean in the grand jury
> proceedings. When
> all is said and done, there will be like 9 Betsy Andreu's. The
> circumstantial
> evidence against Lance is overwhelming.
>
> Didn't you ever ask yourself why Lance really chased down Simeoni that
> one day
> in the Tour? That was a Tony Soprano mob hit by the GodFather
> himself. Lance
> is a kingpin doper.
>
> And now the public knows.
>
>
> Magilla
No no no!!! I am not trying to make the entire case contingent on
ANYBODY. I'm saying that people are nuts here, putting all their trust
into something they have no reason to put *all* of their trust into,
whether that's Lance or Betsy or Floyd or whomever. "I would trust her
without reservation on practically any matter" based upon a radio
interview, is what one poster said. That's as ridiculous as trusting Al
Gore in the same way because of a stump speech on global warming. Or
that church guy in Colorado Springs who says he's seen the light now and
you can trust him because he knows what it is to have sinned and won't
sin again. Yeah right. Is this really something you disagree with?
Regarding Lance and Simeoni, yeah, I just happened to be there when it
played out. Pretty funny. Your interpretation is reasonable, as are many
others in which Lance was simply putting his foot down as Godfather on
principle because Simeoni was a whiner. Whatever. Was it really much
different than the crap that Hinault used to pull? Don't know, I wasn't
there. Just heard stories.
"And now the public knows."
Baloney. The public knows nothing yet. Just because people have taken
sides and believe, doesn't mean they know. It will come out though. And
I'm feeling pretty good about detaching myself emotionally from the
outcome some time ago. One of my better decisions.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 7:06 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> If you go to a professional bike
> race you would have a tough time finding one rider or person on a team
> wearing a
> yellow bracelet.
Rodriguez, Kreuzinger, Anton, Cuesta, just to name a few in the Vuelta
who are.
Your point is valid; far fewer wear yellow now than before. But they're
not difficult to find. Once again, exagerration hurts the point
someone's trying to make.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
news:4C83BB83.2FF95453@sandiegozoo.org...
> --D-y wrote:
>
>> Betsy's motivation (and avowed hatred of Lance) could be seen to
>> arise
>> from her fear of seeing her meal ticket and stud-muffin hubby lying
>> (so to speak) in the same bed as Lance, health ruined because of
>> doping programs "enforced" by Lance & Co.
>> IOW, "It's Not About the Cheating".
>>
>
> No, that doesn't sound plauisble to me. Betsy hates Lance because
> he's a douchebag
> and a thug. And getting her husband fired from Postal..and then
> Toyota..and then
> trying the same thing with Versus (Lance made the call but Versus
> opted not to fire
> him).
>
> Plus, she knew Lance was a doper the entire time since that '96
> Indiana hospital
> room visit and all she sees on TV and the Internets is this guy who
> claims to be
> anti-doper and all about cancer...the reality is he likely gave
> himself cancer and
> then profitted off the corruption of lying about it and continued to
> dope. She
> knws the entire Lance persona and image is just a big lie.
>
>
>
>>
>> OTOH, Lance continues to look confident and draw adoring crowds
>> wherever he appears.
>
> Lance does not look confident at all. Didn't you see the Tour this
> year or notice
> that he pulled out of Leadville? The guy looks like Danielson on a
> bike. As for
> the adoring fans, they are all clueless motherfuckers no different
> than the 900
> people who followed Jim Jones down to Guyana. If you go to a
> professional bike
> race you would have a tough time finding one rider or person on a team
> wearing a
> yellow bracelet. Most people hate Lance for being a thug and an
> ambassador of
> fraud (everyone in pro cycling knows LA is a bullshit artist). Now
> that the public
> is finding out who Lance and his entourage really are, those fans left
> are
> basically the bottom of the barrel.
>
>
>
>>
>> Does he have another card or two to play besides pitch-forking Weisel
>> over to the Feds? (ha ha, spel checur said "weasle")
>
> I don't think Weisel was the guy behind the doping program. I think
> it was
> Bruyneel and Lance doing it. Weisel is a fraud, no doubt, but I don't
> see the
> doping program being his invention. Maybe someone like Stapleton and
> Carmichael
> knew about it, but....
>
>
>>
>>
>> I drove by his Austin residence the other day; no "For Sale Price
>> Reduced" signs out front as of yet.
>> --D-y
>
> Who the fuck wants to live in Austin? Austin is still in Texas which
> means it's a
> fucked up place to live. Texas is all about football, chearleadin'
> and the
> Bible....it's one of the most fucked up states in the country.
>
>
> Magilla
>
>
== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 7:16 pm
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd
On Sep 5, 12:08 pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
>
> Didn't you ever ask yourself why Lance really chased down Simeoni that one day
> in the Tour? That was a Tony Soprano mob hit by the GodFather himself. Lance
> is a kingpin doper.
>
> And now the public knows.
And the public doesn't give a crap. Sure, it would scare
off some of the namby-pambier sponsors, and Jeff Novitsky
cares so LANCE might go to jail, but: The public has spoken.
I'd think you'd approve of whacking Simeoni, because,
you know, no gifts.
Fredmaster Ben
== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 7:52 pm
From: DA74
On Sep 5, 8:22 am, BLafferty <Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> By telling a truth substantiated by two other witnesses in the room and
> two to whom McIlvain admitted the truth she saw/heard before lying under
> oath.
>
Exactly counselor. And instead of arguing with Lafferty and my gorilla
brother, maybe all the rest of you nonbelieving fucktards should
actually listen to Stephanie McIlvain say these things in her own
words. Among other things she outlines to Lemond that he's a doper,
bad father, angry prick, cheater, drug addict and outright fraud. It's
pretty good stuff.
Her only job was to be his agent at Oakley. I've just outlined a small
portion. She also wonders how Hincapie's baby could possibly be
healthy after all the drugs he took.
Here's the link you jagoffs:
http://j.b5z.net/i/u/2132106/m/gregstef.mp3
== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 7:55 pm
From: --D-y
On Sep 5, 10:47 am, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> --D-y wrote:
> > Betsy's motivation (and avowed hatred of Lance) could be seen to arise
> > from her fear of seeing her meal ticket and stud-muffin hubby lying
> > (so to speak) in the same bed as Lance, health ruined because of
> > doping programs "enforced" by Lance & Co.
> > IOW, "It's Not About the Cheating".
>
> No, that doesn't sound plauisble to me. Betsy hates Lance because he's a douchebag
> and a thug. And getting her husband fired from Postal..and then Toyota..and then
> trying the same thing with Versus (Lance made the call but Versus opted not to fire
> him).
The hate was pre-firings (the Andreus were in the hospital room before
the TdF-apalooza began).
I'm sticking with my story. Your's is like, gravy or icing or
something-- so to speak.
> Plus, she knew Lance was a doper the entire time since that '96 Indiana hospital
> room visit and all she sees on TV and the Internets is this guy who claims to be
> anti-doper and all about cancer...the reality is he likely gave himself cancer and
> then profitted off the corruption of lying about it and continued to dope. She
> knws the entire Lance persona and image is just a big lie.
I think she might have known or suspected and I think it's a health
thing IRT meal ticket/stud service.
> > OTOH, Lance continues to look confident and draw adoring crowds
> > wherever he appears.
>
> Lance does not look confident at all. Didn't you see the Tour this year or notice
> that he pulled out of Leadville?
I think he hit the age where his eyesight lost some sharpness, as well
as the reflexes and no, he hasn't looked real brave on the bike for
awhile-- maybe since retirement.
I think he hurt his hip in one of the TdF falls, real enough there.
Like when he got tangled in a later fall, started to bend over to get
his bike loose and thought better of it?
Maybe I'm projecting on that point...
> The guy looks like Danielson on a bike. As for
> the adoring fans, they are all clueless motherfuckers no different than the 900
> people who followed Jim Jones down to Guyana. If you go to a professional bike
> race you would have a tough time finding one rider or person on a team wearing a
> yellow bracelet. Most people hate Lance for being a thug and an ambassador of
> fraud (everyone in pro cycling knows LA is a bullshit artist). Now that the public
> is finding out who Lance and his entourage really are, those fans left are
> basically the bottom of the barrel.
I think the Jones comparison is a little extreme.
> > Does he have another card or two to play besides pitch-forking Weisel
> > over to the Feds? (ha ha, spel checur said "weasle")
>
> I don't think Weisel was the guy behind the doping program. I think it was
> Bruyneel and Lance doing it. Weisel is a fraud, no doubt, but I don't see the
> doping program being his invention. Maybe someone like Stapleton and Carmichael
> knew about it, but....
Maybe there's enough fiscal malfeasance by Weisel (and not just the
cycling stuff) that he is good trade material (thinking of the
Novitsky MO here)? I wouldn't pretend to know, I just read in here
that he's no stranger to attention from regulators.
> Who the fuck wants to live in Austin? Austin is still in Texas which means it's a
> fucked up place to live. Texas is all about football, chearleadin' and the
> Bible....it's one of the most fucked up states in the country.
I want to live in Austin, Magilla. It's a small island of sanity
(depending on whom you ask, of course) in one of the most fucked-up
states in the country. I mostly fly in and out.
I lived in Houston for almost four years. Now, you want to talk about
really screwed, except for the museums and some of the schools...
--D-y
== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 7:55 pm
From: DA74
On Sep 5, 7:52 pm, DA74 <davidasto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 5, 8:22 am, BLafferty <Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> > By telling a truth substantiated by two other witnesses in the room and
> > two to whom McIlvain admitted the truth she saw/heard before lying under
> > oath.
>
> Exactly counselor. And instead of arguing with Lafferty and my gorilla
> brother, maybe all the rest of you nonbelieving fucktards should
> actually listen to Stephanie McIlvain say these things in her own
> words. Among other things she outlines to Lemond that he's a doper,
> bad father, angry prick, cheater, drug addict and outright fraud. It's
> pretty good stuff.
>
> Her only job was to be his agent at Oakley. I've just outlined a small
> portion. She also wonders how Hincapie's baby could possibly be
> healthy after all the drugs he took.
>
> Here's the link you jagoffs:
>
> http://j.b5z.net/i/u/2132106/m/gregstef.mp3
Here's the source link on CN:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=9956
== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 8:01 pm
From: --D-y
On Sep 5, 10:47 am, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> > OTOH, Lance continues to look confident and draw adoring crowds
> > wherever he appears.
>
> Lance does not look confident at all.
Missed this point, previous post.
I meant "socially confident", like in that ride wherever it was with
the multitudes recently.
Still playin' the part.
No, not confident on the bike. Rust plus eyesight acuity loss plus
lacking motivation to take chances. Winning seven and being rich will
do that to you.
--D-y
== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 9:02 pm
From: DirtRoadie
On Sep 5, 7:29 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
> "Magilla Gorilla" <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
>
> news:4C83C089.24C55079@sandiegozoo.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
> >> "Magilla Gorilla" <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
> >>news:4C825986.C3F3069B@sandiegozoo.org...
> >> > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
> >> >> "Anton Berlin" <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> >>news:3c780a2a-83d9-4727-a41a-267481ade417@x42g2000yqx.googlegroups.com...
> >> >> > Philip,
>
> >> >> > But certainly you have an open enough mind to see why Stephanie
> >> >> > would
> >> >> > have changed her story based on pressure from employer and her
> >> >> > need
> >> >> > for good insurance for her child?
>
> >> >> > And Betsy has always been steadfast and consistent - have you
> >> >> > ever
> >> >> > heard the radio interviews? I would trust her without
> >> >> > reservation
> >> >> > on
> >> >> > practically any matter while I don't think I'd trust Lance on
> >> >> > any
> >> >> > matter all the way down to pet-sitting a goldfish.
>
> >> >> You've never met her, you don't reference knowing anything about
> >> >> her
> >> >> from
> >> >> any other source than a radio interview(s), and that was enough
> >> >> that
> >> >> you
> >> >> would "trust her without reservation on practically any matter."
>
> >> >> That blows me away. I have no reason not to trust her, but it
> >> >> takes
> >> >> more
> >> >> than a good radio interview for me to trust someone (or something)
> >> >> "without
> >> >> rservation."
>
> >> >> I haven't heard the interviews, but am certainly curious to now,
> >> >> since it
> >> >> appears she's capable of casting one heck of a spell over people.
>
> >> >> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> >> >> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> >> >>www.ChainReaction.com
> >> >> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> >> > I don't care that you're playing devil's advocate, but you better
> >> > not
> >> > actually
> >> > be insinuating that you don't think Lance is guilty as shit and a
> >> > major league
> >> > liar. Lance doped hundreds of times throughout his career. If you
> >> > can't see
> >> > that, then there's something seriously wrong with you.
>
> >> > And don't talk about Betsy Andreu unless you explain to me how come
> >> > Stephanie
> >> > McIlvain said she heard the same thing. She's Lance's fucking
> >> > agent
> >> > at Oakley
> >> > for crying out loud. What motivation does she have to lie?
>
> >> > And then you also have to explain why Frankie Andreu is lying. For
> >> > you to
> >> > simply make it sound like Betsy is the only one saying it....you're
> >> > not
> >> > entitled to change the facts. And the facts are that 3 people said
> >> > they heard
> >> > Lance say it.
>
> >> > You've got to shred the credibility of 3 people, not one.
>
> >> > Good luck - you'll need it,
>
> >> > Magilla
>
> >> No playing devil's advocate involved. I'm just pointing out how
> >> people
> >> see & hear what they want to, on both sides, and become binary. No
> >> more
> >> reasoning involved. No gray areas. At some point they made up their
> >> minds about the final outcome, and construct their own scenario of
> >> everything in-between.
>
> >> C'mon, wrap your brain around this-
>
> >> >> > And Betsy has always been steadfast and consistent - have you
> >> >> > ever
> >> >> > heard the radio interviews? I would trust her without
> >> >> > reservation
> >> >> > on
> >> >> > practically any matter while I don't think I'd trust Lance on
> >> >> > any
> >> >> > matter all the way down to pet-sitting a goldfish.
>
> >> Sure, I might not trust Lance with my goldfish either (if I had one).
> >> Could turn out that goldfish are a masking agent for all I know. But
> >> how
> >> did Betsy Andreu cast such a spell over that poster?
>
> >> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> >>www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> > You keep trying to make the entire case contingent on Betsy Andreu,
> > and it's
> > not. It's about Stephanie McIlvain...Frankie Andreu..Emma
> > O'Reilly..Fraud
> > Landis...the 8 positive EPO tests from the '99 Tour...the Ferrari
> > association....and whoever else came clean in the grand jury
> > proceedings. When
> > all is said and done, there will be like 9 Betsy Andreu's. The
> > circumstantial
> > evidence against Lance is overwhelming.
>
> > Didn't you ever ask yourself why Lance really chased down Simeoni that
> > one day
> > in the Tour? That was a Tony Soprano mob hit by the GodFather
> > himself. Lance
> > is a kingpin doper.
>
> > And now the public knows.
>
> > Magilla
>
> No no no!!! I am not trying to make the entire case contingent on
> ANYBODY. I'm saying that people are nuts here, putting all their trust
> into something they have no reason to put *all* of their trust into,
> whether that's Lance or Betsy or Floyd or whomever. "I would trust her
> without reservation on practically any matter" based upon a radio
> interview, is what one poster said. That's as ridiculous as trusting Al
> Gore in the same way because of a stump speech on global warming. Or
> that church guy in Colorado Springs who says he's seen the light now and
> you can trust him because he knows what it is to have sinned and won't
> sin again. Yeah right. Is this really something you disagree with?
>
> Regarding Lance and Simeoni, yeah, I just happened to be there when it
> played out. Pretty funny. Your interpretation is reasonable, as are many
> others in which Lance was simply putting his foot down as Godfather on
> principle because Simeoni was a whiner. Whatever. Was it really much
> different than the crap that Hinault used to pull? Don't know, I wasn't
> there. Just heard stories.
>
> "And now the public knows."
>
> Baloney. The public knows nothing yet. Just because people have taken
> sides and believe, doesn't mean they know. It will come out though. And
> I'm feeling pretty good about detaching myself emotionally from the
> outcome some time ago. One of my better decisions.
Mike -
Thanks for presenting a truly rational perspective.
I, too, have no dog in the fight and am waiting to see how this whole
thing plays out. There are lots of possibilities. And while it is of
some interest, I have little interest in the threads that encourage
the zealots. Geez, they sound like damn high school cheerleaders. Or
some recently converted religious zealot who is eager to share his/her
"truth" with you.
I don't know the C. Springs individual you refer to but the MO is
common. "My old religion was wrong, so YOU need to share my new one."
Or, in simplified form "YOU need to embrace MY faith."
Anyhow, I feel bad about even starting this thread since I don't think
there is much to actually be discussed here- it's much more a matter
of waiting to see what happens and that can be readily done with
ordinary news sources. But, regardless, the same stuff would be
popping up daily (or more often) anyhow since the individuals that we
all know and love will not let the matter rest without expressing
their perspective at least daily, even though they do little more than
repeat their well established mantra over and over and over and
over.....
DR
==============================================================================
TOPIC: after all....
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/14a3f56f651c44c9?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 6:54 pm
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"
"Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
news:4C83C171.A7BABB93@sandiegozoo.org...
: Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
:
: > "Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
: > news:4C8253E3.3E162E37@sandiegozoo.org...
: > :I don't see why Floyd was allowed to file this lawsuit. After all,
: > : cycling is "just entertainment."
: > :
: > : Jackasses.
: >
: > Jackass -
: >
: > Cycling is just entertainment and the entertainment industry has all
sorts
: > of litigation.
: >
: > Googling "entertainment lawyer" ressulted in 2.7 million results.
: >
: > thanks,
: >
: > Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
:
: You know what it means to put something in quotes, right?
:
: Evidently not.
Dumbass -
Bike racing, along with all other spectator sports, are entertainment.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The smart play for whistle blowing Floyd
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/93b9d62ad5c24d72?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 6:58 pm
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"
"BLafferty" <Brian@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:TcWdnaZ2qP9xeR7RnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@giganews.com...
: On 9/5/2010 2:28 PM, Anton Berlin wrote:
: > He should say he's going to donate any proceeds to charity. Except
: > he should find a charity unlike the Lance Armstrong Foundation that's
: > just a grift to take money in the name of cancer.
: >
: > The earlier he does this the better.
:
: He should do that but first pay back fairness fund donors.
Dumbass -
Wow. I actually agree with you.
Thing is, he won't do it. His motivations are not altruistic. If he was that
type of person, he'd have taken his punishment without protest and come back
like Basso or Vino did (not saying those two are altruistic, but they did
the right thing).
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Liz Hatch didn't get the cover...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/64fe4327558cdca5?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 6:51 pm
From: Magilla Gorilla
Zenon wrote:
> On Sep 5, 9:21 am, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> > She's Miss March, and her photo looks a bit bland. But I'm opening it
> > up to votes, which I normally don't do. So consider this your lucky
> > day.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Magilla
> >
> > http://www.cyclepassion.com/product_info.php?info=p45_CYCLEPASSION-CA...
>
> Will this be the picture for March?
>
> http://plixi.com/p/17635412
>
> Just wondering.
At least Paris Hilton made a sex tape..pretenders like Liz Hatch just do this
little fake-tease routine.
That looks so trailer park.
Magilla
==============================================================================
TOPIC: An argument that should've worked on a Bush-era judge
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4636e5feb49051f6?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 7:19 pm
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd
On Sep 4, 5:39 pm, Fred on a stick <anonymous.cow...@address.invalid>
wrote:
> On 7/23/2010 4:48 AM, Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 23, 10:42 am, Fred on a stick
> > <anonymous.cow...@address.invalid> wrote:
> >> From:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/22/BA3N1EIFC...
>
> >> "In her appeal, her lawyer argued that her answers were all literally
> >> true. The products were actually supplied by Arnold's girlfriend, Arnold
> >> never "gave" Thomas anything she didn't pay for, and the drugs she took
> >> were not on the list of legally banned steroids when she took them, the
> >> defense said."
>
> >> The punch line is in the penultimate sentence.
>
> > One day you're wielding immense power deciding
> > deep moral issues (on the wrong side, but so what)
> > in the name of preserving a great and powerful nation.
>
> > The next, you're deciding whether when Tammy Thomas
> > says "gave" she means "gave" or "gave for free", and
> > who wants to be thinking about, ahem, what TT's criteria
> > are for the exchange of gifts, or what Tammy Thomas
> > gets or gives for free.
>
> > So one might conclude that Judge Bybee has achieved
> > his proper place in the world after all. Ah, karma.
>
> > Fredmaster of Justice Ben
>
> Perhaps so. When is "littering" littering?
>
> http://balkin.blogspot.com/2010/09/torture-and-littering.html
What's that saying? One man's trash is another
man's torture?
Something like that.
Fredmaster Ben
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Today is 20th Anniversary of John Frey's 47:35 40K in MoriartyNew
Mexico
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/cba9a2ba200acaf6?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 8:03 pm
From: Scott
On Sep 5, 9:06 am, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Sep 2, 11:25 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 2, 11:06 am, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
>
> > > Anton Berlin wrote:
> > > > On Sep 2, 8:52 am, Choppy Warburton <choppywarbur...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > Like Jesse Owens and Bob Beamon's long jumps - the record still stands
> > > > > 20+ years later.
>
> > > > > Congratulations to John.
>
> > > > Frey - Bostick and Carolyn Donnelly all still holding records from
> > > > 1990
>
> > > >http://www.usacycling.org/forms/records.pdf
>
> > > All these records could easily have been broken by any of several modern
> > > day pros.
>
> > > Magilla
>
> > Dumbass,
>
> > The reason that the records have never been broken is that shortly
> > after they were set, the road was resurfaced using chip seal. What
> > used to be an incredibly smooth road is now rough and not really
> > suitable for record breaking efforts. It's just that simple, the road
> > is slow now.
>
> And yet, records are still being set there.
>
> I do agree, though, that the surface isn't the fastest around.
>
> Andy Coggan
Yeah, but aren't the records being set in categories that have only
just recently been taken seriously, e.g. most of the older masters
categories?
It's not surprising that 50-60 y.o. guys are still setting records,
but until someone breaks the elite records, I'd say the course isn't
as fast as it once was. Frey and Bostick were very good time
trialists in their day, but there a lots of really good TT specialists
out there now. Someone should be able to break the elite record there
if the course is still up to it.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 5 2010 8:13 pm
From: Andy Coggan
On Sep 5, 10:03 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 5, 9:06 am, Andy Coggan <acog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 2, 11:25 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 2, 11:06 am, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
>
> > > > Anton Berlin wrote:
> > > > > On Sep 2, 8:52 am, Choppy Warburton <choppywarbur...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Like Jesse Owens and Bob Beamon's long jumps - the record still stands
> > > > > > 20+ years later.
>
> > > > > > Congratulations to John.
>
> > > > > Frey - Bostick and Carolyn Donnelly all still holding records from
> > > > > 1990
>
> > > > >http://www.usacycling.org/forms/records.pdf
>
> > > > All these records could easily have been broken by any of several modern
> > > > day pros.
>
> > > > Magilla
>
> > > Dumbass,
>
> > > The reason that the records have never been broken is that shortly
> > > after they were set, the road was resurfaced using chip seal. What
> > > used to be an incredibly smooth road is now rough and not really
> > > suitable for record breaking efforts. It's just that simple, the road
> > > is slow now.
>
> > And yet, records are still being set there.
>
> > I do agree, though, that the surface isn't the fastest around.
>
> > Andy Coggan
>
> Yeah, but aren't the records being set in categories that have only
> just recently been taken seriously, e.g. most of the older masters
> categories?
It's up for debate, but I'd say that, e.g., the tandem records or the
younger masters women's records have been "taken seriously" for quite
some time.
OTOH, I do agree with you that few riders of Frey's or Bostick's
caliber seem to have raced at Moriarty in recent years.
> It's not surprising that 50-60 y.o. guys are still setting records,
> but until someone breaks the elite records, I'd say the course isn't
> as fast as it once was. Frey and Bostick were very good time
> trialists in their day, but there a lots of really good TT specialists
> out there now. Someone should be able to break the elite record there
> if the course is still up to it.
If the pavement used to be smoother then yes, the course is slower
than it used to be. OTOH, equipment keeps getting faster, while the
UCI tries to hold things back. Thus, comparing times back then to
times now is always going to be a crapshoot....all that can be said is
that Frey (or whomever) recorded the fastest time to date under the
rules applicable at the time, and for that he/they deserve their 15
min of fame.
Andy Coggan
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