Saturday, September 18, 2010

[socialactionfoundationforequity:6419 [Agniveer] Why I left Christianity

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Agniveer has posted a new item, 'Why I left Christianity'

Read to know what transformed Michael D'Souza into Brahmachari Aryaveer - a
dedicated vedic preacher.

You may view the latest post at
http://agniveer.com/2099/why-i-left-christianity/

You received this e-mail because you asked to be notified when new updates are
posted.
Best regards,
Agniveer
agniveer@gmail.com

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:6418 Child Abuse – Conference Calls for Multi-Disciplinary Action and Protection for Children

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Child Abuse – Conference Calls for Multi-Disciplinary Action and
Protection for Children
http://www.medindia.net/news/Interviews/Child-Abuse-Conference-Calls-for-Multi-Disciplinary-Action-and-Protection-for-Children-74182-1.htm

by Nancy Needhima on September 18, 2010

Children are the undisputed greatest gifts on earth, but how prepared
and equipped is the society to ensure that the innocent ones are
cherished, shielded, guarded and supported by responsible adults?
Protecting children from abuse and empowering them to exercise their
right to safeguard their integrity was the highlight of the National
Conference on Child Abuse for Multi Disciplinary Professionals, held
on 17th September 2010, at the Seminar Hall of SRMC and RI, Sri
Ramachandra University, Chennai.

Read more: Child Abuse – Conference Calls for Multi-Disciplinary
Action and Protection for Children

Pledging Solidarity to Prevent Child Abuse

The conference encouraged involvement from members beyond the NGOs and
other social welfare organizations to create awareness on the
prevalence of child abuse and steps to check the crime perpetrated
against young lives. Active participation included professionals from
various disciplines, people from different states in India and
sponsors from organizations that are committed to the abolition of any
form of child abuse. The numbers present proved the awareness; hence
the evident focus was the call for action.

Lurking Danger

Dr. Shantha Sinha, Chairperson, National Commission for Protection of
Child Rights, Delhi, highlighted in her speech as to how children are
vulnerable to abuse by people closely trusted by them such as fathers,
teachers, wardens and neighbors. But the little ones are overpowered
and forced to succumb to the abusive adults thrusting victims to
silence. One of the three brutal examples of child abuse cited by Dr.
Sinha, was where one child victim whose uterus had to be removed
because of the violence perpetrated on her, demanded justice but was
abandoned by the legal system because the police wouldn't even file an
FIR. Another similar example exposed the state of irresponsibility of
authorities and the loopholes in the existing system of law and order
that allowed the criminal to go scot-free after severely abusing a
child.

Limitations in the Legal System

Sexual assault does not necessarily involve physical contact— non-
contact and invasive assaults should also be categorized as sexual
assault in the legal system. As of now, the legal system addresses
sexual molestation only to female victims and not boys. Plus,
investigative measures often re-victimize the abused child.

The conference emphasized on the need for pre-investigative procedure
to collect evidence, and conduct an inquiry where the child will be
comfortable through the procedure. The Juvenile Justice system should
integrate 'children in contact with law' where children should be
given a fair hearing as witnesses. Investigation by police should
protect children from hostile processes and secondary victimization.
And finally the examination procedure must not be harmful to the
child.

Pressing Amendments

Since children are in no position to express abuse inflicted on them,
the repercussions have long term devastating impact such as HIV/AIDS,
depression, suicide, behavioral disorder and so on. "Children do not
report abuse", accounted Dr. Sinha, and hence insisted on creating a
safe and supportive environment to be implemented in households,
schools, hostels and everywhere children spend time.

The first amendment suggested was at the Policy Level, where there
should be universal and secondary education for children, followed by
zero tolerance to sexual abuse. This plainly means the need for
legislative reform. Secondly at the Service Level, in other words at
the Capacity Level where people should be in a position to protect and
be sensitive to children. For this, adequate training on handling
child abuse must be a mandate to lawyers, police, teachers, and people
from other disciplines. Thirdly, family must be supportive.
Discrimination of girl child, child marriage, sending children far
away to work as domestic help has to be discouraged and severely dealt
with, if reported. Finally and most importantly children should be
empowered to protect themselves and others. The role of media will
definitely induce awareness on child abuse but media should assume
responsibility to treat the issue with sensitivity.

Support and Sponsorship

The conference was felicitated by dignitaries, especially Honorable
Justice K.G. Balakrishnan, Chairman National Human Rights Commission,
New Delhi, Thiru. V.R. Thanikachalam, Chancellor Sri Ramachandra
University, Chennai, Ms. Mary Yapur, Training Officer, International
Society for Prevention of Child Abuse and Neglect, USA, Dr. Satish
Kumar, State Representative, Chennai and Kerala, UNICEF, Dr. Sarojini
Varadappan, President, ICCW, Tamil Nadu and Dr. S. Rangaswami, Vice
Chancellor, Sri Ramachandra University, Chennai. The conference was
organized by Indian Council for Welfare, Tamil Nadu and Sri
Ramachandra University, Porur, Chennai. The program was supported by
International Society for Prevention of Child Abuse and Neglect
(ISPCAN) and OAK Foundation in partnership with PLAN India and Save
the Children (Bal Raksha). The Resource Book containing details on
measures that need to be implemented and the current state of affairs
on Child Abuse was presented on this occasion. As Ms. Mary Yapur put
it, the vision of Mr. Henry Camp, the founder of International Society
for Prevention of Child Abuse and Neglect, was to implement a multi-
disciplinary action, because every individual has a very important
role to play in addressing the issue of child abuse.


Read more: Child Abuse – Conference Calls for Multi-Disciplinary
Action and Protection for Children
http://www.medindia.net/news/Interviews/Child-Abuse-Conference-Calls-for-Multi-Disciplinary-Action-and-Protection-for-Children-74182-1.htm#ixzz0zx06K7cI

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:6417 Documentary to spread awareness on right to life done

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Documentary to spread awareness on right to life done
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/pune/Documentary-to-spread-awareness-on-right-to-lifedone/articleshow/6581828.cms

TNN, Sep 19, 2010,

PUNE: "There are many in the country who are unaware of the law of the
land. The focus should be on the right for a dignified life for every
human being. That's why there's a greater need to be sensitive and use
law, especially for social change," said Supreme Court Justice Hemant
Gokhale while speaking about Right To Life,' a documentary on socio-
legal lawyering, screened at the National Film Archive of India on
Saturday.

Produced by Sahyog Trust, which is run by city-based human rights
activist and lawyer Asim Sarode, and directed by Shilpa Ballal, the 45-
minute documentary in Marathi attempts to spread human rights
awareness from the socio-legal perspective. The film addresses
different issues, sectors, classes and groups where human rights
violation occurs. The film features victims of domestic violence,
released prisoners, people living with HIV/AIDS and commercial sex
workers sharing their experiences of living a difficult life and their
struggle due to the poor access to justice.

The screening was also attended by retired Mumbai high court judge B G
Kolse-Patil and Ratnakar Mahajan from the Maharashtra State Planning
Board.

"It's necessary for everyone right from the police and lawyers to the
entire judicial system and the masses at large to be sensitive and
aware of their rights. You cannot avail of the laws if you don't have
the knowledge of them," said Gokhale, while narrating his own
experiences while dealing with cases related to right to life.

"Difficulty in accessibility, lack of awareness, financial problems
and social standing have been some of the reasons for the victims of
human rights abuse not being able to make use of the laws available in
the country," said Sarode.

Right To Life' also features Justice V R Krishna Iyer, Justice
Chandrashekhar Dharmadhikari and retired director general of
Maharashtra police Bhaskarrao Misal. While Iyer questions the whole
idea of getting caught in the web of a mechanical judicial network,
Misal requests a united front in working by the police, lawyers and
judges, while dealing with court cases.

Addressing the audience, Gokhale also suggested certain solutions that
can help people make correct use of the law. "Knowledge of the Right
To Information Act, writing letters to the court that could also serve
as petitions, or going on record as a witness of a crime are the few
steps one can take in order to fight for right to life," said
Gokhale.

For Sarode, the film is an attempt to project his experiences and
challenges in the field of human rights activism, and take it further
to people, right down to the grassroots. "We are going to network with
various organisations, students and lawyers across Maharashtra in
order to screen the film to the masses," said Sarode.

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:6416 Absent Father Might Mean Earlier Puberty for Higher-Income Girls

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Absent Father Might Mean Earlier Puberty for Higher-Income Girls
http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/healthday/643206.html

Findings add to previous research, but experts still can't explain
linkBy Kathleen Doheny
HealthDay Reporter

FRIDAY, Sept. 17 (HealthDay News) -- Girls growing up in higher-income
homes without a biological father are likely to reach puberty earlier
than others, new research finds.

"In higher-income families, father absence predicted earlier puberty,
but it did not in lower-income, father-absent [households]," said
study leader Julianna Deardorff.

"Girls in upper-income households without a father were at least twice
as likely to experience early onset of puberty, as demonstrated by
breast development," she said. The researchers defined higher income
as $50,000 or more a year.

Early maturation in girls is linked with emotional and substance use
problems and earlier sexual activity. These girls also face a higher
risk for breast cancer and other reproductive cancers later in life.

Previous research has linked absent-father households and earlier
puberty, but this study adds more information, said Deardorff, an
assistant professor of public health at the University of California,
Berkeley.

"We were looking at very early signs," such as breast development and
the growth of pubic hair, she said. Other researchers have focused on
the start of menstruation without looking at factors such as income
and ethnicity, according to background information in the study.

Girls are reaching puberty earlier in the United States, where the
average age of menstruation is about 12 years, Deardorff said. Recent
research has found some girls starting to develop breasts as early as
age 7 or 8.

For their study, published Sept. 17 in the Journal of Adolescent
Health, Deardorff and her colleagues followed 444 girls, aged 6 to 8
at the start, and their mothers. They gathered extensive data on
factors such as weight, height, stage of breast and pubic hair
development, father's presence and income. Eighty percent of the girls
said their fathers did not live with them.

After two years of follow-up, the researchers saw earlier breast
development in higher-income girls in absentee-dad homes across the
board, but noted earlier pubic hair growth only in black girls from
richer families. Having another male, such as a stepfather, in the
home didn't change the findings.

They also found, as other researchers have, that higher body-mass
index (BMI), a calculation based on height and weight, was also linked
with earlier puberty.

The authors said they can only speculate on the reasons behind the
connections. Exposure to more artificial light from TVs or computers
is one theory. Other possibilities include weak maternal bonding,
assuming a single mother is working long hours, or contact with
chemicals that may have estrogenic effects -- perhaps hair
straighteners in the case of black preteens.

"It's possible girls in those homes are exposed to different
environmental exposures, for example, toxins," Deardorff said. They
may be exposed more to cosmetics and other personal care products, for
instance, and some experts have expressed concerns about what they see
as hormone-disrupting chemicals in those products.

Anthony Bogaert, a professor of community health sciences at Brock
University in St. Catharines, Canada, reported a link between absent
fathers and early puberty in boys and girls in in 2005 in the Journal
of Adolescence.

Looking at a national sample, he found that those who had had an
absent father at 14 had likely had an early age of puberty. For his
study, he defined puberty for girls as the onset of menstruation and
for boys, voice change.

"It is difficult to know why this relationship occurs -- for example,
stress, genes -- so more work needs to be conducted on the exact
mechanism underlying it," he said. This new study is an "interesting"
addition to the literature on the topic, he said.

How can parents in father-absent homes compensate, if at all?

Until researchers determine the cause of the connection, Bogaert said
it's premature to offer suggestions.

Deardorff suggested focusing on other links, such as the higher BMI
and its association with earlier puberty.

"Probably one of the primary targets is going to be body weight and
physical activity [to maintain a healthy weight]," she said.

More information

To learn more about puberty, visit the American Academy of Pediatrics.

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

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rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Rationale behing "Luxembourg" team - ousting Riis ? - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/1030fd2bf5bd7d8f?hl=en
* Even anti-doping people don't want Floyd around - 7 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f298d8db03d82060?hl=en
* "Hi Betsy, it's Stephanie...." - 7 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/6f0f1e57d0bfa788?hl=en
* Moratorium - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f67aa46f44c99026?hl=en
* Two different stories from the Vuelta TT - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7b71a877c8f085d8?hl=en
* W H E A T T H I N S ! ! ! ! ! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2d9122e3da26b995?hl=en
* Lance Armstrong, "I don't recall." - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/49144e36d79c0dfc?hl=en
* The Last Word On Cadence And Heart Rate - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/9723c0f0dcb01e5b?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rationale behing "Luxembourg" team - ousting Riis ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/1030fd2bf5bd7d8f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 2:25 pm
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"

"Keith" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:oe7a96tm1bv8pr1epm6nf6gaiu47pr3gbt@4ax.com...
: You have to wonder after reading this :
:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riis-on-cancellara-i-got-the-best-out-of-him?cid=OTC-RSS&amp;attr=news_headlines
:
: Looks like they're trying to get away from him...the question is why ?
: - admitted doper
: - too bossy
: - not paying them enough
: - bald
: - etc...


Dumbass -

It's not the bald thing or the doping thing. Everyone knew about that stuff
before he ever became a DS. It's gotta be something personal. Somehow, he's
alienated everyone. I'll guess ego and narcisissm - they're the most common
afflictors in situations like this.

It's really surprising, given how much success the teams have had.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 3:29 pm
From: RicodJour


On Sep 18, 4:16 pm, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> You have to wonder after reading this :http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riis-on-cancellara-i-got-the-best-out...
>
> Looks like they're trying to get away from him...the question is why ?
> - admitted doper
> - too bossy
> - not paying them enough
> - bald
> - etc...

I'm not so interested in the reason for the parting of ways - there
are always a myriad of factors, personality not being the least - so
much as Riis' he-didn't-hurt-me-at-ALL,-bro! comments. What exactly
is he saying with that comment about getting a sponsor? If you have
Cancellara and the Schleck brothers on the team it's not exactly going
to be a stretch to get people interested. And the "I got the best out
of him" is a barely concealed "I gave her the best years of my life."
It's pitiful. I'm wondering which RBR empathic giant will step up and
counsel him through his grief...

R


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 5:46 pm
From: Magilla Gorilla


Keith wrote:

> You have to wonder after reading this :
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riis-on-cancellara-i-got-the-best-out-of-him?cid=OTC-RSS&amp;attr=news_headlines
>
> Looks like they're trying to get away from him...the question is why ?
> - admitted doper
> - too bossy
> - not paying them enough
> - bald
> - etc...

Riis is right - Cancellera is beyond his prime. His best days are behind him. The Schleck brothers are pencil
dicks doped to the gills. This new Luxembourg team looks like it has Rashaan Bahati in charge of the sponsorship
talks.

Going with a tried and tested doper like Contador whose corrupt Spanish federation makes sure their kingpin doesn't
get popped is an added bonus.

Magilla

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 6:34 pm
From: "H. Fred Kveck"


In article <i73anv$o23$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
"Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemachine@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Keith" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:oe7a96tm1bv8pr1epm6nf6gaiu47pr3gbt@4ax.com...
> : You have to wonder after reading this :
> :
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riis-on-cancellara-i-got-the-best-out-of-him?c
> id=OTC-RSS&amp;attr=news_headlines
> :
> : Looks like they're trying to get away from him...the question is why ?
> : - admitted doper
> : - too bossy
> : - not paying them enough
> : - bald
> : - etc...

> It's not the bald thing or the doping thing. Everyone knew about that stuff
> before he ever became a DS. It's gotta be something personal. Somehow, he's
> alienated everyone. I'll guess ego and narcisissm - they're the most common
> afflictors in situations like this.
>
> It's really surprising, given how much success the teams have had.

It could be the reasons you suggested, or something simpler. The Schlecks had a
team built around them being dangled in front of them, with the bonus that it's from
their own country. It sounds like a "grass is greener" thing to me. And with their
exit and the shakiness of Riis' sponsorship situation, the other riders decide that
it might be time to go along with the Schlecks or go elsewhere.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Even anti-doping people don't want Floyd around
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f298d8db03d82060?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 2:28 pm
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"

"Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
news:4C951680.243AA5B3@sandiegozoo.org...
: Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
:
: > "Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
: > news:4C94EF01.A219EAB5@sandiegozoo.org...
: > :
: > : Here I am telling you people gems like Pate's wife was banged by TD
and
: > : how Phil Z is on trial before it hits the press...and this is the
thanks
: > : I get?
: > :
: > : I gave you people everything. I taught you the value of money and how
to
: > : make it. I gave you Darian, I gave you people your manhood. And this
is
: > : how you pay me back?
: >
: > Dumbass -
: >
: > Greed is only good only when it is controlled.
: >
: > thanks,
: >
: > Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
:
: I stopped believing in fortune cookie messages a long time ago. So should
: you.

Dumbass -

I respond to your Wall Street reference with another Wall Street reference
and this is what you give me?

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 2:36 pm
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"

"Amit Ghosh" <amit.ghosh@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7add277d-aaa4-41c2-9932-ff57ae03bf14@w4g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 18, 3:16 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinthemach...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Cycling goes too far. Two year bans for the first offense. They're making
> it
> into a moral issue rather than treating it as simply a rules infraction.
> By
> making it a moral issue, it brings more attention to it and the negative
> publicity is bad for sponsorship/viewer interest.
>
> Cycling needs to treat it as a mere rules infraction. Doping to gain an
> advantage is no different than an offensive lineman doing some holding to
> gain an advantage in football. Treat it as such and the negative press
> will
> be minimized.

:: it depends on what the issue is. other sports may be soft on doping
:: but they deal harshly with other violations (gambling, coruption, bad
:: bahaviour).
::
:: other pro sports have a "god", a commissioner who can make a decision
:: which is final.
::
:: if david stern wants to suspend an athlete (like he did with ron
:: artest) or fine an owner he does it and there is no CAS appeal etc.
:: etc.

Dumbass -

I don't pay attention to baseball, but the NFL and the NBA have an appeals
process to any ruling by the commissioner. The NFL's appeals process is sort
of a show trial since the appeal is made to the commissioner himself, but
the NBA's is conducted by an independent arbitrator.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 5:37 pm
From: Magilla Gorilla


Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

> "Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
> news:4C951680.243AA5B3@sandiegozoo.org...
> : Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> :
> : > "Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
> : > news:4C94EF01.A219EAB5@sandiegozoo.org...
> : > :
> : > : Here I am telling you people gems like Pate's wife was banged by TD
> and
> : > : how Phil Z is on trial before it hits the press...and this is the
> thanks
> : > : I get?
> : > :
> : > : I gave you people everything. I taught you the value of money and how
> to
> : > : make it. I gave you Darian, I gave you people your manhood. And this
> is
> : > : how you pay me back?
> : >
> : > Dumbass -
> : >
> : > Greed is only good only when it is controlled.
> : >
> : > thanks,
> : >
> : > Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> :
> : I stopped believing in fortune cookie messages a long time ago. So should
> : you.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> I respond to your Wall Street reference with another Wall Street reference
> and this is what you give me?
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

You know, I thought you did that, but I don't recall the reference to
controlling greed so I wasn't quite sure if it was just a coincidence. But in
light of your claim, I will give you credit for the Gekko discovery.

Magilla


== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 5:41 pm
From: Magilla Gorilla


Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

> "Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
> news:4C94F0D0.556B21DE@sandiegozoo.org...
> : > :
> : > : Yet everyone thinks it's about prosecuting violators.
> : >
> : > <snip>
> : >
> : > Dumbass -
> : >
> : > The head of any sports governing body has one overriding priority:
> promote
> : > the sport. Better promotion of the sport = more $$$$$.
> : >
> : > Everything they do falls under the umbrella of this raison d'etre.
> : >
> : > thanks,
> : >
> : > Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> :
> : That's exactly how a high school graduate thinks. A college graduate,
> : however, is suppose to factor in the REAL long-term costs and consequences
> of
> : covering up a small problem that will only allow it to metastasize and
> take
> : down the entire sport.
> :
> : Well, we are now witnessing it...Fraud and now Pharmstrong. The two
> biggest
> : Americans in the sport are now known as frauds, attacking each other like
> : rabid dogs.
> :
> : Had McQuaid and his doping partner-in-crime Verbruggen cracked down on
> this
> : bullshit as real intelligent leaders would have done, none of this would
> have
> : happened.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> The model for the correct way to handle doping is either FIFA or the NFL.
> Someone fails a test, he gets suspended for a few games, then is allowed
> back with the caveat that subsequent failed tests will result in longer and
> longer suspensions.
>
> Cycling goes too far. Two year bans for the first offense. They're making it
> into a moral issue rather than treating it as simply a rules infraction. By
> making it a moral issue, it brings more attention to it and the negative
> publicity is bad for sponsorship/viewer interest.
>
> Cycling needs to treat it as a mere rules infraction. Doping to gain an
> advantage is no different than an offensive lineman doing some holding to
> gain an advantage in football. Treat it as such and the negative press will
> be minimized.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

Football and soccer are not good benchmarks for cycling because doping does not
have a direct outcome on the final score in a football game as much as dopng in
cycling does.

In sports where pure endurance is the difference between winning and losing,
you can't enforce doping in cycling like in ball sports, especially those that
depend on an entire team effort. There are no drugs in football or soccer that
will definitely make a persons core more goals. But in cycling, EPO will
definitely help you win.

Same with track and swimming. Dopers could come along and kick ass unless you
weeded them out.


Magilla

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 9:24 pm
From: Fred Fredburger


Magilla Gorilla wrote:

> Football and soccer are not good benchmarks for cycling because doping does not
> have a direct outcome on the final score in a football game as much as dopng in
> cycling does.

You don't honestly think all those 300lb linemen who run the 40 yard
dash in 5 seconds are clean?


== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 10:13 pm
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"

"Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
news:4C955B63.AE6F7554@sandiegozoo.org...
: Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
:
: > "Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
: > news:4C951680.243AA5B3@sandiegozoo.org...
: > : Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
: > :
: > : > "Magilla Gorilla" <m.gorilla@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
: > : > news:4C94EF01.A219EAB5@sandiegozoo.org...
: > : > :
: > : > : Here I am telling you people gems like Pate's wife was banged by
TD
: > and
: > : > : how Phil Z is on trial before it hits the press...and this is the
: > thanks
: > : > : I get?
: > : > :
: > : > : I gave you people everything. I taught you the value of money and
how
: > to
: > : > : make it. I gave you Darian, I gave you people your manhood. And
this
: > is
: > : > : how you pay me back?
: > : >
: > : > Dumbass -
: > : >
: > : > Greed is only good only when it is controlled.
: > : >
: > : > thanks,
: > : >
: > : > Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
: > :
: > : I stopped believing in fortune cookie messages a long time ago. So
should
: > : you.
: >
: > Dumbass -
: >
: > I respond to your Wall Street reference with another Wall Street
reference
: > and this is what you give me?
: >
: > thanks,
: >
: > Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
:
: You know, I thought you did that, but I don't recall the reference to
: controlling greed so I wasn't quite sure if it was just a coincidence.

Dumbass -

Well, GG said "Greed is Good" and I added onto it.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 10:17 pm
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"

"Fred Fredburger" <I@just.dont.know.anymore> wrote in message
news:4c959099@news.x-privat.org...
: Magilla Gorilla wrote:
:
: > Football and soccer are not good benchmarks for cycling because doping
does not
: > have a direct outcome on the final score in a football game as much as
dopng in
: > cycling does.
:
: You don't honestly think all those 300lb linemen who run the 40 yard
: dash in 5 seconds are clean?

Dumbass -

One of them ran a 4.8 at the Combine last year.

That is in-fucking-credible for someone who weighs 300 lbs.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Hi Betsy, it's Stephanie...."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/6f0f1e57d0bfa788?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 2:40 pm
From: "Kurgan Gringioni"

"--D-y" <dustoyevsky@mac.com> wrote in message
news:c505d34f-3fda-44c1-8e55-d84020409aa2@k13g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 18, 2:09 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:


:: I think there's a timeframe issue here, also-- referring to a time
:: before Betsy's recent expressions of wonderful heartfelt concern for
:: The Children, when, in spite of whatever "evidence" existed at the
:: time regarding LA's guilt, she came off principally as a vindictive
:: hater of Lance Armstrong.


Dumbass -

If you want to do something for The Children, first thing to do is make
public any deathbed confessions you've heard someone make to their doctor.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 5:26 pm
From: Magilla Gorilla


Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

> "--D-y" <dustoyevsky@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:c505d34f-3fda-44c1-8e55-d84020409aa2@k13g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 18, 2:09 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> :: I think there's a timeframe issue here, also-- referring to a time
> :: before Betsy's recent expressions of wonderful heartfelt concern for
> :: The Children, when, in spite of whatever "evidence" existed at the
> :: time regarding LA's guilt, she came off principally as a vindictive
> :: hater of Lance Armstrong.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> If you want to do something for The Children, first thing to do is make
> public any deathbed confessions you've heard someone make to their doctor.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

First of all, just because Betsy invoked 'the children' thing in a recent
quote...that doesn't mean it's her total motive. You should never really
read quotes as a total and absolute explanation for anything unless the
person makes that intent clear. She didn't.

Second, Lance wasn't on his 'deathbed.' The guy was never really in danger
of dying. That's part of the whole Lance Armstrong myth to make him out to
be superhuman. Ernie Lechuga had a testicle removed from his satchel and he
didn't die either. Did he cheat death too? Nobody really dies from testicle
cancer. That's right up there with jeff Gordon claiming in divorce papers
that being a NASCAR driver is a really dangerous thing when statistics say
otherwise.

Third, absent Betsy's revelations, the federal case and pending USADA case
would still be going forward as neither will likely focus on pre-96 doping.
SO Betsy, while entertaining, is really a red herring.

Fourth, Lance made the decision to reveal information to people with whom he
had no formal contract to maintain confidentiality. Even if he did, they are
required to tell the truth under subpoena.

Fifth, the people who perjured themselves under oath are committing felonies
because they all have financial motives to lie. Bill Clinton was impeached
because he lied under oath and fined $75,000 by a federal judge. Clinton
was also disbarred. You don't do that shit and then cry about it.

Sixth, Betsy didn't reveal anything personal. The fact that Lance doped and
admitted it in a milieu where he assumed it was confidential, but in reality
wasn't, isn't a compelling argument. If Lance wanted confidentiality he
should have made people sign nondisclosure agreements. Betsy signed on to no
such rider.

Taking steroids actually does kill children and harm many more (especially in
Texas - king of steroid football). So Betsy's argument comes across to me as
more genuine and compelling than a guy who gave himself cancer with steroids
and then claims to the world they should donate to his cancer foundation
because he's such a great role model.


Magilla

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 5:37 pm
From: BLafferty


On 9/18/2010 2:05 PM, Magilla Gorilla wrote:
> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/09/18/2010-09-18_abusvie_voicemails_now_part_of_armstrong_probe.html?page=1
>
Partial transcripts. What is missing?


== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 6:27 pm
From: Carl Sundquist


On Sep 18, 7:26 pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> > "--D-y" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote in message
> >news:c505d34f-3fda-44c1-8e55-d84020409aa2@k13g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
> > On Sep 18, 2:09 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > :: I think there's a timeframe issue here, also-- referring to a time
> > :: before Betsy's recent expressions of wonderful heartfelt concern for
> > :: The Children, when, in spite of whatever "evidence" existed at the
> > :: time regarding LA's guilt, she came off principally as a vindictive
> > :: hater of Lance Armstrong.
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > If you want to do something for The Children, first thing to do is make
> > public any deathbed confessions you've heard someone make to their doctor.
>
> > thanks,
>
> > Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> First of all, just because Betsy invoked 'the children' thing in a recent
> quote...that doesn't mean it's her total motive.  You should never really
> read quotes as a total and absolute explanation for anything unless the
> person makes that intent clear.  She didn't.
>
> Second, Lance wasn't on his 'deathbed.'  The guy was never really in danger
> of dying.  That's part of the whole Lance Armstrong myth to make him out to
> be superhuman.  Ernie Lechuga had a testicle removed from his satchel and he
> didn't die either.  Did he cheat death too?  Nobody really dies from testicle
> cancer.  That's right up there with jeff Gordon claiming in divorce papers
> that being a NASCAR driver is a really dangerous thing when statistics say
> otherwise.
>
> Third, absent Betsy's revelations, the federal case and pending USADA case
> would still be going forward as neither will likely focus on pre-96 doping.
> SO Betsy, while entertaining, is really a red herring.
>
> Fourth, Lance made the decision to reveal information to people with whom he
> had no formal contract to maintain confidentiality.  Even if he did, they are
> required to tell the truth under subpoena.
>
> Fifth, the people who perjured themselves under oath are committing felonies
> because they all have financial motives to lie.  Bill Clinton was impeached
> because he lied under oath and fined  $75,000 by a federal judge.  Clinton
> was also disbarred.  You don't do that shit and then cry about it.
>
> Sixth, Betsy didn't reveal anything personal.  The fact that Lance doped and
> admitted it in a milieu where he assumed it was confidential, but in reality
> wasn't, isn't a compelling argument.   If Lance wanted confidentiality he
> should have made people sign nondisclosure agreements.  Betsy signed on to no
> such rider.
>
> Taking steroids actually does kill children and harm many more (especially in
> Texas - king of steroid football).  So Betsy's argument comes across to me as
> more genuine and compelling than a guy who gave himself cancer with steroids
> and then claims to the world they should donate to his cancer foundation
> because he's such a great role model.
>
> Magilla

Dumbass,

Armstrong's testicular cancer metastasized to his lungs and brain.
That's what was life threatening.


== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 6:49 pm
From: Brad Anders


On Sep 18, 5:26 pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:

> Taking steroids actually does kill children and harm many more (especially in
> Texas - king of steroid football).

I looked, I couldn't find any examples - can you cite just one case
where a child (i.e. under 18) who took steroids to improve athletic
performance died? I don't deny plenty take them and are possibly
harmed, but I haven't heard of a death connected to it.

Brad Anders


== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 8:09 pm
From: Keith


On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 18:27:58 -0700 (PDT), Carl Sundquist
<carl.sundquist@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sep 18, 7:26Êpm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
>> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>> > "--D-y" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote in message
>> >news:c505d34f-3fda-44c1-8e55-d84020409aa2@k13g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Sep 18, 2:09 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > :: I think there's a timeframe issue here, also-- referring to a time
>> > :: before Betsy's recent expressions of wonderful heartfelt concern for
>> > :: The Children, when, in spite of whatever "evidence" existed at the
>> > :: time regarding LA's guilt, she came off principally as a vindictive
>> > :: hater of Lance Armstrong.
>>
>> > Dumbass -
>>
>> > If you want to do something for The Children, first thing to do is make
>> > public any deathbed confessions you've heard someone make to their doctor.
>>
>> > thanks,
>>
>> > Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>>
>> First of all, just because Betsy invoked 'the children' thing in a recent
>> quote...that doesn't mean it's her total motive. ÊYou should never really
>> read quotes as a total and absolute explanation for anything unless the
>> person makes that intent clear. ÊShe didn't.
>>
>> Second, Lance wasn't on his 'deathbed.' ÊThe guy was never really in danger
>> of dying. ÊThat's part of the whole Lance Armstrong myth to make him out to
>> be superhuman.
>> Magilla
>
>Dumbass,
>
>Armstrong's testicular cancer metastasized to his lungs and brain.
>That's what was life threatening.

And the thing is, you can normally never heal from a metastasized
cancer, that makes him a superhuman, or we don't know the whole
story...

That's what my previous research had turned up and I looked it up
again...http://www.howtostopcancer.com/ :

"The 5-year survival rate for metastasized cancer of any origin is
almost ZERO despite what current medical science has to throw at the
problem. Current medicine does a decent job dealing with localized
cancer, but if it metastasizesÉ.its pretty much Ògame over!"

Wonder why no medical expert has marvelled at Armstrong beating a
metastasized cancer...

I'll start a new thread about that actually.


== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 9:49 pm
From: Doug Anderson


Keith <nospam@nospam.com> writes:

> On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 18:27:58 -0700 (PDT), Carl Sundquist
> <carl.sundquist@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sep 18, 7:26Êpm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> >> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> >> > "--D-y" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:c505d34f-3fda-44c1-8e55-d84020409aa2@k13g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
> >> > On Sep 18, 2:09 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > :: I think there's a timeframe issue here, also-- referring to a time
> >> > :: before Betsy's recent expressions of wonderful heartfelt concern for
> >> > :: The Children, when, in spite of whatever "evidence" existed at the
> >> > :: time regarding LA's guilt, she came off principally as a vindictive
> >> > :: hater of Lance Armstrong.
> >>
> >> > Dumbass -
> >>
> >> > If you want to do something for The Children, first thing to do is make
> >> > public any deathbed confessions you've heard someone make to their doctor.
> >>
> >> > thanks,
> >>
> >> > Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> >>
> >> First of all, just because Betsy invoked 'the children' thing in a recent
> >> quote...that doesn't mean it's her total motive. ÊYou should never really
> >> read quotes as a total and absolute explanation for anything unless the
> >> person makes that intent clear. ÊShe didn't.
> >>
> >> Second, Lance wasn't on his 'deathbed.' ÊThe guy was never really in danger
> >> of dying. ÊThat's part of the whole Lance Armstrong myth to make him out to
> >> be superhuman.
> >> Magilla
> >
> >Dumbass,
> >
> >Armstrong's testicular cancer metastasized to his lungs and brain.
> >That's what was life threatening.
>
> And the thing is, you can normally never heal from a metastasized
> cancer, that makes him a superhuman, or we don't know the whole
> story...
>
> That's what my previous research had turned up and I looked it up
> again...http://www.howtostopcancer.com/ :
>
> "The 5-year survival rate for metastasized cancer of any origin is
> almost ZERO despite what current medical science has to throw at the
> problem. Current medicine does a decent job dealing with localized
> cancer, but if it metastasizesÉ.its pretty much Ògame over!"

You must not have read the website you are using as a source for
knowledge. You are quoting a website that is basically an
advertisment (by someone with no indicated medical training, skill, or
knowledge) who is selling his book.

You realizes that this is the opposite of an authority.

He tells you you can have his protocol absolutely free! Then when you
click on the link, he tells you it's "only $37 for a REAL book."

It comes with a moneyback guarantee (you get your $37 back if you die)?

> Wonder why no medical expert has marvelled at Armstrong beating a
> metastasized cancer...

Because medical experts understand that cancer is complicated (both
before and after metastasis) and that there are many different types
of cancer with many different forms and levels of metastasis upon
discovery and with many different prognoses.

> I'll start a new thread about that actually.

Please don't.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Moratorium
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f67aa46f44c99026?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 3:05 pm
From: Fred


Not that most of us had any question about this before, but it is
certain now. There shall be no mention of TD as a GT GC contender
ever again. Never. Got it...

Fred


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 3:16 pm
From: DirtRoadie


On Sep 18, 4:05 pm, Fred <fred.gar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Not that most of us had any question about this before, but it is
> certain now.   There shall be no mention of TD as a GT GC contender
> ever again.  Never.  Got it...

Are you proposing a rule? It would seem to be a self-fulfilling
prediction at this point.
Go here while you can:
http://www.tdcoffee.com/home.php

Anybody know if he has a contract for next year?

DR

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 10:24 pm
From: Amit Ghosh


On Sep 18, 6:05 pm, Fred <fred.gar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Not that most of us had any question about this before, but it is
> certain now.   There shall be no mention of TD as a GT GC contender
> ever again.  Never.  Got it...
>
> Fred

dumbass,

i cant really hate danielson.

he had the unfortunate luck of being marked as the next big thing, but
most dudes that are the next big thing never live up to their supposed
potential. i can name a hundred of them.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Two different stories from the Vuelta TT
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7b71a877c8f085d8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 4:27 pm
From: --D-y


On Sep 18, 3:07 pm, Carl Sundquist <carl.sundqu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 18, 11:12 am, --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 17, 8:48 pm, Carl Sundquist <carl.sundqu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Danielson told VeloNews. "I rode the best time trial I could today. I
> > > had a problem with the zipper on my booty (shoe cover). I felt like I
> > > had a parachute on my foot. I struggled a little on the first part,
> > > but I felt strong on the way back. That's bike racing. It's never as
> > > easy as it looks on TV. I put together the most solid ride I could
> > > today."
>
> > > Conversely, Cavendish finished in 48th place, 3:53 behind Velits
> > > winning time
>
> > > Cav rode 46 km in 56:36
>
> > > That averages out to a 49:53 for 40k
>
> > > For Mark Cavendish, a rider scorned at times for being nothing but a
> > > field sprinter
>
> > > Furthermore it was the 17th stage and Cavendish started 7 minutes
> > > before Cancellara when it was supposedly windier than it was for the
> > > later riders
>
> > > Even after the effort while Farrar finished next to last, more than 6
> > > minutes slower than Cavendish, on the following stage Cav still kicked
> > > everyone's ass.
>
> > "Nothing but a field sprinter". "Scorned". Okaaaay... field sprints
> > are inferior to watching maybe 15 guys huff and puff up the side of a
> > hill at 14mph because...  because...
>
> > Milan-San Remo '09 IMHO especially notable for the way he hauled in
> > Haussler and pipped him on the line-- "don't give him time to react",
> > that's the way they taught me. (Of course, they also taught me not to
> > start from so far back <g>)
>
> > I don't get the Taylor Phinney reference but that's OK.
> > --D-y
>
> People discredited MSR as a monument on the logic that if Cav won, it
> was too easy to be worthy of monument status.

There's a long list of big names who have won MSR. Very few "little
guys". Of course, not many "little guys" have won 5 stages in one TdF.

Of course, there's always the Merckx Criticism IRT MSR: "He won it too
often" <g>.

Well, what can I say: Some people might be full of a dislike for a boy
racer who wins sprints with or without his leadout train (ahem), wears
his heart on his sleeve and calls 'em as he sees 'em, including who
the top dog bunch sprinter is, and roundly (rightly, honestly) thanks
his team for getting him to his launch point personally and during
post-race interviews.

"I didn't feel my legs all day" I thought was a memorable quote that
might have ruffled a few feathers.
--D-y

==============================================================================
TOPIC: W H E A T T H I N S ! ! ! ! !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2d9122e3da26b995?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 5:58 pm
From: Magilla Gorilla


"Beloved Fred No. 1" wrote:

> Magilla Gorilla wrote:
> > Great question. I live in a bat cave so my electric bill is slightly
> higher than Superman's.
>
> And higher than LANCE's water bill.
>
> > I'm a modern day crime fighter. I'm some kind of fucking super hero.
>
> Did King Kong ever get to tap Fay ?

No, but he got to second base with her on the top of the Empire State
Building.


Magilla


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lance Armstrong, "I don't recall."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/49144e36d79c0dfc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 7:06 pm
From: Jute Andre


.
.
.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/31833754/Lance-Armstrong-Testimony
.
.
.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Last Word On Cadence And Heart Rate
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/9723c0f0dcb01e5b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 7:32 pm
From: Fred on a stick


On 9/18/2010 2:08 PM, A. Dumas wrote:
>
> So what you are saying is, using more meters makes one use less meters.
>
> Well, that wasn't actually a funny observation because I'm sure that is
> exactly how it works, yes. Back in the day I spent a lot of time
> calibrating RPE using PM+HRM on rowing machines and HRM in the boat.
> Later, on the bike, I have always been more comfortable using no
> measuring devices.

Since I have power I get the comfort of not having to use a HRM belt
while still getting useful data. And, of course, if you have power (and
a nicely calibrated sense of RPE) then HR is at best redundant and at
worst misleading.


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Medarticles need this pls

Buzz It
Future Oncology
February 2010, Vol. 6, No. 2, Pages 229-237
Review
Insulinoma: pathophysiology, localization and management
Joyce J Shin, Phillip Gorden & Steven K Libutti†
http://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/abs/10.2217/fon.09.165?url_ver=Z39....
thanks

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* Cheap NFL Jersey MLB Jersey NHL Jersey Wholesale(http://www.24hoursneakers.
com/) (PayPal Payment) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/3e36cd763caeadd3?hl=en
* George Young on the Jets - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/637086108ea0741f?hl=en
* Bart Scott makes week 1 all-team - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/901c29eb70fee427?hl=en
* Stupid use of Revis - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/25217bb198e2686d?hl=en
* Pats sign RB, Danny Woodhead - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/4c84dcdb412cc4c4?hl=en
* More opinion - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/96c0725121655601?hl=en
* OT - Kindle Hurt That Seriously? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/2d1d87b2f5599077?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What a difference a point makes.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/05e90238aae680ba?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 12:26 am
From: Grinch


Haven't been around lately, now that I look in I see a whole lot of
woe and gnashing of teeth about a 1-pt loss.

But a dozen plays in that game that could have gone another way, and
been worth that one pt or more.

For one, Greene's second fumble of the first half, on the Balt 24,
probably cost them at least a FG and let Balt go the full distance the
other way for a TD as time ran out in the first half -- probably a 10-
point swing right there.

If he doesn't fumble, and the rest of the game goes just as it did,
everyone here is beating their chest about how they put the Ravens
away with Big D and ball-control O, the way to win to a championship!
So don't let one 1-pt loss get you down too much,

Oh, well.... Speaking of young Green having the fumbles and dropsies,
if Rex is planning to win with the big running game as he's said so
often, being that it is an uncapped year, and the team is built to
"win now", wouldn't it be nice to have TJ still around to take a few
carries?

As to the O being so conservative, it is Rexy ball folks. C'mon. The
idea that Rex doesn't know what Schott is doing, and/or has no power
to control it .... it's the old sydrome: "Our Great Leader has nothing
to do with all the atrocities and injustices, it's his minions doing
it, he has no idea..." Nope, it was the Great Leader each and every
time. And it is Rex. He wants that safe conservative O, *no more* 4-
pick and 5-pick games by Sanchez, so the D can win. And it worked
last week, no picks by Sanchez!

Is it *too* conservative? I dunno. As conservative as it was, as
rinky-dink most of the pass attempts were, the kid was still only 10
of 21 for 74 yds and a rating of 56. Those numbers don't instill a
whole lot of confidence in the idea of him instead flinging the ball
all over.

The Ravens have a real good and aggressive D, and I imagine against
lesser Ds they'll give Sanchez more opportunities and he'll do
better. To some degree.

But face it, Sanchez is a project. They are going to be protecting
him all year. And they should. Objectively he is *bad*, a weakness on
this team. *The* weakness on this team. He has some real promise, he
may be good someday. But he is a baby, inexperienced and immature, and
they have thrown him in well before his time to take a "win now" team
to the Super Bowl.

Last year he was 28th in the league by NFL passer rating -- and 35th,
with negative numbers, in Footballoutsiders' ratings. *Bad.* Maybe
he's better this year, but he sure *hasn't shown it* yet. Not last
week, not on HBO that I saw ... and until he does, they'd better damn
well keep protecting him from trying too much.

So get used to it.


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 1:11 am
From: Johnny Morongo


On Sep 18, 12:26 am, Grinch <oldna...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Haven't been around lately, now that I look in I see a whole lot of
> woe and gnashing of teeth about a 1-pt loss.
>
> But a dozen plays in that game that could have gone another way, and
> been worth that one pt or more.
>
> For one, Greene's second fumble of the first half, on the Balt 24,
> probably cost them at least a FG and let Balt go the full distance the
> other way for a TD as time ran out in the first half -- probably a 10-
> point swing right there.
>
> If he doesn't fumble, and the rest of the game goes just as it did,
> everyone here is beating their chest about how they put the Ravens
> away with Big D and ball-control O, the way to win to a championship!
> So don't let one 1-pt loss get you down too much,
>
> Oh, well....  Speaking of young Green having the fumbles and dropsies,
> if Rex is planning to win with the big running game as he's said so
> often, being that it is an uncapped year, and the team is built to
> "win now", wouldn't it be nice to have TJ still around to take a few
> carries?
>
> As to the O being so conservative, it is Rexy ball folks.  C'mon.  The
> idea that Rex doesn't know what Schott is doing, and/or has no power
> to control it .... it's the old sydrome: "Our Great Leader has nothing
> to do with all the atrocities and injustices, it's his minions doing
> it, he has no idea..."  Nope, it was the Great Leader each and every
> time.  And it is Rex.  He wants that safe conservative O, *no more* 4-
> pick and 5-pick games by Sanchez, so the D can win.  And it worked
> last week, no picks by Sanchez!
>
> Is it *too* conservative?  I dunno.  As conservative as it was, as
> rinky-dink most of the pass attempts were, the kid was still only 10
> of 21 for 74 yds and a rating of 56. Those numbers don't instill a
> whole lot of confidence in the idea of him instead flinging the ball
> all over.
>
> The Ravens have a real good and aggressive D, and I imagine against
> lesser Ds they'll give Sanchez more opportunities and he'll do
> better.  To some degree.
>
> But face it, Sanchez is a project.  They are going to be protecting
> him all year.  And they should. Objectively he is *bad*, a weakness on
> this team.  *The* weakness on this team. He has some real promise, he
> may be good someday. But he is a baby, inexperienced and immature, and
> they have thrown him in well before his time to take a "win now" team
> to the Super Bowl.
>
> Last year he was 28th in the league by NFL passer rating -- and 35th,
> with negative numbers, in Footballoutsiders' ratings.  *Bad.*   Maybe
> he's better this year, but he sure *hasn't shown it* yet. Not last
> week, not on HBO that I saw ... and until he does, they'd better damn
> well keep protecting him from trying too much.
>
> So get used to it.

Although it's been said before, they're all valid points, G-man.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 6:58 am
From: "yoyodog"

"Grinch" <oldnasty@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:460c0181-d007-4b9d-9848-5c49cc508292@c13g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
> Haven't been around lately, now that I look in I see a whole lot of
> woe and gnashing of teeth about a 1-pt loss.

From SNY"

Graziano: Jets must unshackle Sanchez
Quarterback, offense can't be afraid of making mistakes

http://tinyurl.com/29dlmgb

Best paragraph:

"Think about it. They did absolutely nothing on offense Monday, committed 14
penalties, converted one of 11 third downs, allowed the other team to
convert 11 of 19, and still only lost the game 10-9. The Jets' defense is a
monster, with or without Kris Jenkins, even on a night when it limits
Darrelle Revis to half the field (which the team is not likely to do again,
starting this week with Randy Moss)."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What The Hell Happened To This Group?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/a7d1c7d7739fb613?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 5:48 am
From: Rick


Step away for a couple of years and everyone leaves?


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 6:08 am
From: MZ


Rick wrote:
> Step away for a couple of years and everyone leaves?

Fear not. I'm still here.


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 6:42 am
From: Tutor


On Sep 18, 8:48 am, Rick <rocket...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Step away for a couple of years and everyone leaves?

I check in every now and then. The other message boards allow for
pictures, videos and really are easier in format and more fun. The
absence of pictures on usenet is just so 1980's. In adition, the spam
on usenet can get out of control. THere are many good Jetrs forums:

nyjetschat.com
jetsinsider.com (landing strip forum)
jetsnation.com
theganggreen.com

I participate in the first two on the list.

If you like this Usenet group, then you should like NYjetschat.com,
because the level of negativity there rivals that of this forum. :)

jetsinsider.com landing strip is a mixture of youth and veteran fans
like myself. I enjoy it a lot and it is a great source of
information. Because there are so many participants, you have to sort
out the stupid posts from the intelligent ones, but there are many
very thoughtful and insightful fans who post there.

Of all the usenet forums, this one has survived the longest. The Pats
forum is dead (all spam and racism now). Miami still kicking with
oldtimers like us, but most NFL usenet forums are done.


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 6:45 am
From: "yoyodog"

"Rick" <rockettme@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ccf299c-0a99-48c9-9e6a-7082f9fc3d5f@j19g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...
> Step away for a couple of years and everyone leaves?

Still here but mostly lurking...


== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 7:23 am
From: Rick


On Sep 18, 9:45 am, "yoyodog" <NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Rick" <rocket...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:2ccf299c-0a99-48c9-9e6a-7082f9fc3d5f@j19g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Step away for a couple of years and everyone leaves?
>
> Still here but mostly lurking...

Good to hear from all you guys. I see Glenn is still around. Hope all
is well with you and yours.


== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 5:05 pm
From: Glenn Greenstein


On Sep 18, 10:23 am, Rick <rocket...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 18, 9:45 am, "yoyodog" <NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > "Rick" <rocket...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:2ccf299c-0a99-48c9-9e6a-7082f9fc3d5f@j19g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Step away for a couple of years and everyone leaves?
>
> > Still here but mostly lurking...
>
> Good to hear from all you guys. I see Glenn is still around. Hope all
> is well with you and yours.

Actually that was the first post I made here in a very long time. I
was about done with this place after a pretty nasty argument with one
of the other regs here but I always checked in and read as yoyodog
does. I hang mostly at Jetschat.com now. Good group of older Jet fans
and all pretty knowledgeable. Some of them actually remind me of a few
posters here. I could swear Burf posts under Ironmaiden there but the
real IM has not blamed everything wrong with the Jets on Schott yet so
I am having my doubts on that theory ;)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bruschi on Jets-Pats
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/2e8017b10fe112a7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 6:05 am
From: MZ


Glenn Greenstein wrote:
> On Sep 17, 11:17 am, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>> http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=5581610
>
> TB is kicking a Jet to the curb? Shocking I tell ya.

There he is. You're late to the party, Glenn.


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 4:55 pm
From: Glenn Greenstein


On Sep 18, 9:05 am, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
> Glenn Greenstein wrote:
> > On Sep 17, 11:17 am, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
> >>http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=5581610
>
> > TB is kicking a Jet to the curb? Shocking I tell ya.
>
> There he is.  You're late to the party, Glenn.

needed break from this place if you know what I mean.
Miss me :)


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 5:22 pm
From: MZ


Glenn Greenstein wrote:
> On Sep 18, 9:05 am, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>> Glenn Greenstein wrote:
>>> On Sep 17, 11:17 am, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>>>> http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=5581610
>>> TB is kicking a Jet to the curb? Shocking I tell ya.
>> There he is. You're late to the party, Glenn.
>
> needed break from this place if you know what I mean.
> Miss me :)

We were asking about you a few weeks ago. The consensus was that you
fell down two flights of stairs and fractured your skull.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: New Stadium morphing...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/3cac9a1bab631386?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 6:29 am
From: graybeard


On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 00:09:37 -0400 "Ray O'Hara"
<raymond-ohara@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Johnny Morongo" <j.mirehiel@harmonicconcordance.com> wrote in message
>news:9dce2dc4-889b-431a-b479-622bf2202e6e@h40g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>On Sep 17, 5:30 am, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>> Time lapse transition from substandard blue, to Jets, Jets, Jets...
>>
>> http://bit.ly/9NdLsS
>
>Great get, but you must have lots of time on yer hands, and yer hands
>on...
>
>
>===========================================================================
>
>the best part was the games. man those guys were moving out there.

Brady was complaining about the Pats fans leaving early and comparing
them unfavorably to Jets fans, but did you see how fast the Jets fans
got out of there? ;-)
--
graybeard

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap NFL Jersey MLB Jersey NHL Jersey Wholesale(http://www.24
hoursneakers.com/) (PayPal Payment)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/3e36cd763caeadd3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: George Young on the Jets
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/637086108ea0741f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 8:51 am
From: Anne Onime


"After reading all the Jets preseason clips
and watching "Hard Knocks," I couldn't help
but think that somewhere up in football heaven
late Giants GM George Young is having a chuckle.
Early in my career when I was with the Giants,
the Jets were making a lot of headlines in the
New York press. I mentioned something to George
about it, and in his typical cynical response
he says, "It's all BS. Every year the Jets win
the offseason with their moves but when the
season starts it's back to reality and the Jets lose."

I had to clean up George's wording some but you get
the picture."

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Weekend-preview.html


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bart Scott makes week 1 all-team
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/901c29eb70fee427?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 11:37 am
From: MZ


PFF, who scrutinizes every play in every game, put together their
all-PFF-team for week 1. Scott made the list.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/09/18/introducing-your-week-1-all-pff-team/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Stupid use of Revis
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/25217bb198e2686d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 12:39 pm
From: Harlan Lachman


Frankly, if REvis can really shut down anyone, I would prefer they
put him on Welker and take him out of the game. I trust Wilson on the
guy opposite Moss.

Frankly, if Cromartie cannot play Moss so that he does not dominate the
entire game, he is worthless.

But I would not allow Welker to beat me two ways:

Catching all those passes,

Rewarding Brady for getting rid of the ball before the Blitzs get to him.

harlan


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 1:35 pm
From: MZ


Harlan Lachman wrote:
> Frankly, if REvis can really shut down anyone, I would prefer they
> put him on Welker and take him out of the game. I trust Wilson on the
> guy opposite Moss.
>
> Frankly, if Cromartie cannot play Moss so that he does not dominate the
> entire game, he is worthless.
>
> But I would not allow Welker to beat me two ways:
>
> Catching all those passes,
>
> Rewarding Brady for getting rid of the ball before the Blitzs get to him.
>
> harlan

Yeah, I've read some articles about this. I think even Albert Breer
asked Rex about this. It's a good idea. Three problems though:

1. Mangini did this before. And he's an idiot. So in the back of my
mind, there has to be something idiotic about it that we're missing.

2. The Pats also have Edelman (who will likely be healthy for this game)
giving you two "Welkers" on the field.

3. If you play Moss over the top with the corner (safe), then he'll beat
you with quick slants which they like to give him. If you give
Cromartie safety help over the top and allow Cromartie to play tight
coverage, you take a safety away from the LOS where they've been so
effective. If you let Cromartie have him one on one, it's very risky.
Revis can do it. Not many other corners can -- maybe no one.

So, although it doesn't seem like a bad strategy, I think I'd still opt
to take Moss out of the game with Revis and then concentrate coverage on
Welker by using either a corner or slot safety (Leonhard) plus leaving a
linebacker in the middle who can smash Welker or Edelman when they go
inside. More important than COVERAGE on Welker is the ability to play
physical against him and TACKLE him. Almost all of his yards come from
YAC, so it will ultimately come down to whether or not the first guy
makes the tackle. I say let David Harris and Bart Scott have a field
day with him and try to generate pressure with the front guys and the
edge rushers (BLT had a very good game last week...sorry to say, Harlan).


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 3:06 pm
From: Harlan Lachman


In article <KPadnfzSX83jvwjRnZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
MZ <mark@nospam.void> wrote:

> Harlan Lachman wrote:
> > Frankly, if REvis can really shut down anyone, I would prefer they
> > put him on Welker and take him out of the game. I trust Wilson on the
> > guy opposite Moss.
> >
> > Frankly, if Cromartie cannot play Moss so that he does not dominate the
> > entire game, he is worthless.
> >
> > But I would not allow Welker to beat me two ways:
> >
> > Catching all those passes,
> >
> > Rewarding Brady for getting rid of the ball before the Blitzs get to him.
> >
> > harlan
>
> Yeah, I've read some articles about this. I think even Albert Breer
> asked Rex about this. It's a good idea. Three problems though:
>
> 1. Mangini did this before. And he's an idiot. So in the back of my
> mind, there has to be something idiotic about it that we're missing.
>
> 2. The Pats also have Edelman (who will likely be healthy for this game)
> giving you two "Welkers" on the field.
>
> 3. If you play Moss over the top with the corner (safe), then he'll beat
> you with quick slants which they like to give him. If you give
> Cromartie safety help over the top and allow Cromartie to play tight
> coverage, you take a safety away from the LOS where they've been so
> effective. If you let Cromartie have him one on one, it's very risky.
> Revis can do it. Not many other corners can -- maybe no one.
>
> So, although it doesn't seem like a bad strategy, I think I'd still opt
> to take Moss out of the game with Revis and then concentrate coverage on
> Welker by using either a corner or slot safety (Leonhard) plus leaving a
> linebacker in the middle who can smash Welker or Edelman when they go
> inside. More important than COVERAGE on Welker is the ability to play
> physical against him and TACKLE him. Almost all of his yards come from
> YAC, so it will ultimately come down to whether or not the first guy
> makes the tackle. I say let David Harris and Bart Scott have a field
> day with him and try to generate pressure with the front guys and the
> edge rushers (BLT had a very good game last week...sorry to say, Harlan).

The truth is the Jets are overmanned. I just get tired of losing to your
slot receiver. I say take him out of the game and let someone else do
the honors. I prefer Edeleman or Moss against Wilson and Cromartie and
perhaps a safety.

I think this is the perfect analogy to one can pick one's poison,

h

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pats sign RB, Danny Woodhead
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/4c84dcdb412cc4c4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 1:05 pm
From: Beiselbub©


Don't you just love it when Rex's mind games come back to bite him?
Franchez is re-learning that long list of checkdowns. He's a quick
study, I'm sure he'll have no problem with it....

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/index.php/2010/09/18/game-on-the-patriots-have-added-former-jets-player-danny-woodhead-to-their-roster/


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 3:07 pm
From: Harlan Lachman


In article
<90042613-eee5-49c9-aac3-e27a4039819e@u31g2000pru.googlegroups.com>,
Beiselbub© <yank_ees_suck@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Don't you just love it when Rex's mind games come back to bite him?
> Franchez is re-learning that long list of checkdowns. He's a quick
> study, I'm sure he'll have no problem with it....
>
> http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/index.php/2010/09/18/game-o
> n-the-patriots-have-added-former-jets-player-danny-woodhead-to-their-roster/

I think you will like this guy. I think this was a stupid move on the
Jets part. It will look even dumber if LT or Shonn get hurt.

harlan


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 3:20 pm
From: MZ


Harlan Lachman wrote:
> In article
> <90042613-eee5-49c9-aac3-e27a4039819e@u31g2000pru.googlegroups.com>,
> Beiselbub© <yank_ees_suck@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Don't you just love it when Rex's mind games come back to bite him?
>> Franchez is re-learning that long list of checkdowns. He's a quick
>> study, I'm sure he'll have no problem with it....
>>
>> http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/index.php/2010/09/18/game-o
>> n-the-patriots-have-added-former-jets-player-danny-woodhead-to-their-roster/
>
> I think you will like this guy. I think this was a stupid move on the
> Jets part. It will look even dumber if LT or Shonn get hurt.
>
> harlan

Harlan, what I always wondered was why the Jets didn't try to use him as
a slot receiver, a la Welker and Edelman. I wonder if this is what the
Pats have in store for him.

Or maybe they're just pumping him for information.


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 6:01 pm
From: Glenn Greenstein


On Sep 18, 6:20 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
> Harlan Lachman wrote:
> > In article
> > <90042613-eee5-49c9-aac3-e27a40398...@u31g2000pru.googlegroups.com>,
> >  Beiselbub© <yank_ees_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> Don't you just love it when Rex's mind games come back to bite him?
> >> Franchez is re-learning that long list of checkdowns.  He's a quick
> >> study, I'm sure he'll have no problem with it....
>
> >>http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/index.php/2010/09/...
> >> n-the-patriots-have-added-former-jets-player-danny-woodhead-to-their-roster/
>
> > I think you will like this guy. I think this was a stupid move on the
> > Jets part. It will look even dumber if LT or Shonn get hurt.
>
> > harlan
>
> Harlan, what I always wondered was why the Jets didn't try to use him as
> a slot receiver, a la Welker and Edelman.  I wonder if this is what the
> Pats have in store for him.
>
> Or maybe they're just pumping him for information.

This is just what the Pats need, an undersized fast white guy who
catches passes.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: More opinion
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/96c0725121655601?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 2:52 pm
From: Anne Onime


http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/09/17/re-focused-week-1-ravens-at-jets/


==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Kindle Hurt That Seriously?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/2d1d87b2f5599077?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 4:19 pm
From: euphy


Baltimore linebacker Sergio Kindle's rookie season is likely over, and
possibly his football career. Kindle fractured his skull shortly before
training camp in July when he fell down two flights of stairs.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Baltimore-Ravens-Sergio-Kindle-likely-out-for-2010-with-head-injury-091710

Pretty depressing way for things to go for a very talented player who
was picked #43 overall and who had this accident before he signed his
first NFL contract.

Ü

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 18 2010 6:00 pm
From: Glenn Greenstein


On Sep 18, 7:19 pm, euphy <eüphem...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Baltimore linebacker Sergio Kindle's rookie season is likely over, and
> possibly his football career.  Kindle fractured his skull shortly before
> training camp in July when he fell down two flights of stairs.
>
> http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Baltimore-Ravens-Sergio-Kindle-lik...
>
> Pretty depressing way for things to go for a very talented player who
> was picked #43 overall and who had this accident before he signed his
> first NFL contract.
>
> Ü

read about this earlier. Tough break (Pun not intended)


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