http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en
rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Looks like Lim perjured himself today - 5 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4ec5a58e9b036147?hl=en
* Why not a shadow at a GT? - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/643d029a54806970?hl=en
* Contador says he probably should have informed Riis earlier - 2 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2f26137be3699750?hl=en
* Why did the Contador dope story come out ? - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e8e52c6aa8a7a445?hl=en
* jersey question - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/703d5561a48305ae?hl=en
* Lance Armstrong releases theme song - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f54eb3792382e3cc?hl=en
* McQuaid comes out from under his rock... - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2696859d9e50f3db?hl=en
* tied for Bronze - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3e37b2f517b22fa1?hl=en
* Which would you choose? Which would Bruce choose? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2b0e1926fc380faf?hl=en
* Worlds On Now! - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/9fbebdac92974eaf?hl=en
* RIP RAAM Fred #1 - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/ee308000b422299d?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Looks like Lim perjured himself today
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4ec5a58e9b036147?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 1 2010 7:30 pm
From: LawBoy01
On Oct 1, 8:46 pm, BLafferty <Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 10/1/2010 8:08 PM, LawBoy01 wrote:
>
> > Brian Chokesoncock cannot understand why witnesses aren't agreeing to
> > his pre-conceived version of events. What a surprise!
>
> Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us, LawGirl.
Your welcome, Brian Chokesoncock
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 7:49 am
From: Fred Flintstein
BLafferty wrote:
> Quite a counterpoint to McIlvain's attorney who told us the essence of
> her testimony.
>
> If witnesses keep coming in to commit perjury, the witnesses not knowing
> what evidence the Grand Jury has in hand to contradict them, I see a
> very upset US Attorney taking action against a number of them. This is
> going to be a fun show. Pour a glass of wine and fasten your seat belt.
McIlvain won't go down for perjury. Neither will Lim.
No one will. Not a single person. Grow some nuts and
stop hedging. Two years from now I'll be able to point
to this to show that I was right. And I'll be able to
show that not only are you repeatedly wrong but you're
pretty craven about it too.
Fred Flintstein
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 11:58 am
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"
"Fred Fredburger" <I@just.dont.know.anymore> wrote in message
news:4ca690e7@news.x-privat.org...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> "Anton Berlin" <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:fc9abee7-2599-4001-be5c-a254c8317c2a@a19g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 30, 8:10 pm, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sep 30, 8:39 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > I think you have it wrong Mike - Landis has no incentive to lie or
>>> > embellish. These guys do.
>>>
>>> No incentive...? Revenge does not have to be directed at someone that
>>> actually caused someone harm. They just have to feel wronged. Then
>>> they tell themselves that they are A-venging, and put on their Thor
>>> jammies when they go to bed.
>>>
>>> R
>> ========
>> If you and Mike are right about Landis I hope the fucker sits right
>> next to Armstrong even then I think Landis has good counsel and has
>> been advised not to embellish or distort. And as a newly reformed
>> liar he's probably following that to the best of his ability.
>>
>> Even if Landis pulls a long sentence on perjury - Armstrong will still
>> be a doper.
>> ========
>>
>> Have we all conveniently forgotten this little gem from the now-truthful
>> Floyd?
>>
>> "As for his own positive test, Landis still maintains that result was
>> inaccurate and that he had not used synthetic testosterone during the
>> 2006 season -- although he now admits he used human growth hormone during
>> that time. At this point, he said he does not want to dwell on any of the
>> issues he and his lawyers hammered at during his case."
>>
>> http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=5203604 on May 21st,
>> 2010. After he "came clean" and reformed.
>>
>> Simple question. Do you believe Floyd is telling the truth about not
>> taking testosterone during the TdF in the same way you feel Lance is
>> lying about riding clean?
>
> That was well done!
Thanks. The problem is that it may have been too well done, which kills any
response. You're better off laying a trap and holding something back for the
kill.
To tell you the truth, I was flabbergasted (a word I doubt I've ever used in
print before) that Floyd still maintains he was innocent regarding the
testosterone at the 'Tour. I agree that the testing methodology was flawed,
and that he should have been let off on technicalities. But, like with OJ,
we know he did it. If Floyd hadn't surrounded himself with some seriously
bad people, I think it likely he would have prevailed. And somehow, becuase
he should have prevailed on technicalities or whatever, he's able to
rationalize to himself that he didn't do it. As I've said, he can't help
himself. I know people like that.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 12:05 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"
"Fred Flintstein" <bob.schwartz@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote in message
news:w9mdncwCsKDn2zrRnZ2dnUVZ_rqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> BLafferty wrote:
>> Quite a counterpoint to McIlvain's attorney who told us the essence of
>> her testimony.
>>
>> If witnesses keep coming in to commit perjury, the witnesses not knowing
>> what evidence the Grand Jury has in hand to contradict them, I see a very
>> upset US Attorney taking action against a number of them. This is going
>> to be a fun show. Pour a glass of wine and fasten your seat belt.
>
> McIlvain won't go down for perjury. Neither will Lim.
>
> No one will. Not a single person. Grow some nuts and
> stop hedging. Two years from now I'll be able to point
> to this to show that I was right. And I'll be able to
> show that not only are you repeatedly wrong but you're
> pretty craven about it too.
>
> Fred Flintstein
Two weeks ago I was thinking Brian was right. Momentum really seemed to be
building. But now, I agree, I don't think anyone's going down on perjury
charges.
Of course, people will make the argument that we're saying this based on
knowing very little about what's gone on behind closed doors. Not much
different than the anti-Lance folk who know everything based on what they've
"heard" or read or just simply know. Everyone looks at what little
information is at hand and believes that which supports their own
pre-existing belief and discounts that which doesn't.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 12:06 pm
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd
On Oct 1, 1:31 pm, BLafferty <Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> This is going to be a fun show.
> Pour a glass of wine and fasten your seat belt.
I recognize that the failure-to-materialize of a parade
of witnesses eager to denounce Pharmstrong has
you depressed, but don't you think drinking and
driving is an inappropriate response on a cycling
newsgroup?
Fredmaster Ben
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why not a shadow at a GT?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/643d029a54806970?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 1:16 am
From: "Beloved Fred No. 1"
Fred Fredburger wrote:
> You believe that embedding reporters with units in Iraq lead to truthful
> reporting?
More like suck-up ass-licking reporting.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 6:40 am
From: RicodJour
On Oct 1, 9:51 pm, Fred Fredburger <I...@just.dont.know.anymore>
wrote:
> RicodJour wrote:
> > On Oct 1, 6:46 pm, Fred <fred.gar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I think you have misconstrued what Mike was saying. I believe he is
> > talking about having a reporter embedded with the team during a GT -
> > similar to what happens with some army units in Iraq.
>
> You believe that embedding reporters with units in Iraq lead to truthful
> reporting?
Do you believe that drug testing leads to clean races?
Do you believe that any reporter, anywhere, at any time in history,
has been totally unbiased?
Do you believe that marriage prevents infidelity - that a ring plugs a
hole?
You're asking a silly question. Please re-read my post you are
replying to - nowhere did I mention guarantees. It's kind of like
life...there are none.
R
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 6:44 am
From: RicodJour
On Oct 2, 4:16 am, "Beloved Fred No. 1" <n...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> Fred Fredburger wrote:
> > You believe that embedding reporters with units in Iraq lead to truthful
> > reporting?
>
> More like suck-up ass-licking reporting.
Well, I guess it's a good thing then that we're talking about
entertainment - cycling, and not Iraq, huh?
BTW, when you're embedded with anyone that has massive amounts of
weaponry, where people die all of the time, it's really pretty smart
to suck up to people. The ass licking is probably just recreation.
R
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Contador says he probably should have informed Riis earlier
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2f26137be3699750?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 6:20 am
From: TheCoz
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-says-he-probably-should-have-informed-riis-earlier
Why are the owner's of team not informed of testings? I mean, they do
OWN the team. I understand that testing is done un-announced but after
the testing, the doping agency should inform the owner's that it was
done. Surely if the agency wants to help control doping, any actions
taken should be passed on to the team owners, doctors and even
coaches.
Coz
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 11:58 am
From: Keith
On Sat, 2 Oct 2010 06:20:33 -0700 (PDT), TheCoz
<cycledogg@hotmail.com> wrote:
>http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-says-he-probably-should-have-informed-riis-earlier
>
>Why are the owner's of team not informed of testings? I mean, they do
>OWN the team. I understand that testing is done un-announced but after
>the testing, the doping agency should inform the owner's that it was
>done. Surely if the agency wants to help control doping, any actions
>taken should be passed on to the team owners, doctors and even
>coaches.
>Coz
Wow, Mr 60% must have blown a gasket when he heard the news!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why did the Contador dope story come out ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e8e52c6aa8a7a445?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 7:47 am
From: Bart
Why didn't UCI go chat with Fuyu Li about what he had on his plate?
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 12:04 pm
From: Iris Postler
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:54:32 -0700, Keith <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>Has anyone seen a good explanation for that?
>
>Everyone, like doping experts Bruyneel , Millar and Vaughters, are all
>crying crocodile tears because the story came out until all the facts
>are known, but they are since A and B are positive...anyway, isn't it
>Alberto's "clan" that went public?
>
>I guess there might have been leaks as German papers are saying that
>the UCI refused to confirm the news earlier this week.
>
>Damage control I guess...too bad
German television was going to go public with the story (the UCI still
denied it), they had heard lots of rumours, so the UCI went first
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 12:33 pm
From: Keith
On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 21:04:26 +0200, Iris Postler
<t.postler@t-online.de> wrote:
>On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:54:32 -0700, Keith <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>Has anyone seen a good explanation for that?
>>
>>Everyone, like doping experts Bruyneel , Millar and Vaughters, are all
>>crying crocodile tears because the story came out until all the facts
>>are known, but they are since A and B are positive...anyway, isn't it
>>Alberto's "clan" that went public?
>>
>>I guess there might have been leaks as German papers are saying that
>>the UCI refused to confirm the news earlier this week.
>>
>>Damage control I guess...too bad
>German television was going to go public with the story (the UCI still
>denied it), they had heard lots of rumours, so the UCI went first
Makes sense, thanks. If it had been up to McQuaid, it would have been
swept under the carpet.
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 4:28 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"
"Keith" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:o62fa6ldjes700t9j6vuhcgahta9ubo4mk@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 21:04:26 +0200, Iris Postler
> <t.postler@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:54:32 -0700, Keith <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Has anyone seen a good explanation for that?
>>>
>>>Everyone, like doping experts Bruyneel , Millar and Vaughters, are all
>>>crying crocodile tears because the story came out until all the facts
>>>are known, but they are since A and B are positive...anyway, isn't it
>>>Alberto's "clan" that went public?
>>>
>>>I guess there might have been leaks as German papers are saying that
>>>the UCI refused to confirm the news earlier this week.
>>>
>>>Damage control I guess...too bad
>>German television was going to go public with the story (the UCI still
>>denied it), they had heard lots of rumours, so the UCI went first
>
> Makes sense, thanks. If it had been up to McQuaid, it would have been
> swept under the carpet.
Not so sure of that anymore. Even a drunken Irishman can tell which way the
wind is blowing from. Think of Louie from Casablanca. McQuaid's going to
find a way to ride this new horse and try and make it sound like he invented
anti-doping efforts.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
==============================================================================
TOPIC: jersey question
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/703d5561a48305ae?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 7:56 am
From: Fred Flintstein
RicodJour wrote:
> On Oct 1, 9:24 pm, Dear Crabby <crabbycycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 22, 7:18 am, Cicero Venatio <jazzyb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Has there ever been a case where a cycling Superman jersey was made or
>>> is for sale today? I'd like to make a statement here locally, as I've
>>> been feeling rather strong lately.
>> Try this kit!!
>>
>> http://goo.gl/Lfz2
>
> Even cycling pacifists would stick a pump in your spokes if you wore
> that get up.
>
> R
If it came in XXXL they'd sell more.
Fred Flintstein
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lance Armstrong releases theme song
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f54eb3792382e3cc?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 8:22 am
From: BLafferty
On 10/1/2010 10:24 PM, LawBoy01 wrote:
> On Oct 1, 8:48 pm, BLafferty<Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On 10/1/2010 8:06 PM, LawBoy01 wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 1, 11:49 am, BLafferty<Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> On 9/30/2010 9:37 PM, LawBoy01 wrote:> On Sep 30, 7:33 pm, Anton Berlin<truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sWzA24lqHI&feature=related
>>
>>>>> Yawn.
>>
>>>> Which of those guys looked most like your grandfather?
>>
>>> Brian,
>>
>>> Your mother could pee while standing up.
>>
>>> -Philip
>>
>> FuckTard, ALL women CAN pee while standing up. Try again, LawGirl.
>
> Not while holding a dick, like your mom.
FuckTard, we all knew what you were *trying* to communicate. I hope you
do a better job or communicating for the few clients that you have.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 10:05 am
From: LawBoy01
On Oct 2, 10:22 am, BLafferty <Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 10/1/2010 10:24 PM, LawBoy01 wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 1, 8:48 pm, BLafferty<Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >> On 10/1/2010 8:06 PM, LawBoy01 wrote:
>
> >>> On Oct 1, 11:49 am, BLafferty<Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 9/30/2010 9:37 PM, LawBoy01 wrote:> On Sep 30, 7:33 pm, Anton Berlin<truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sWzA24lqHI&feature=related
>
> >>>>> Yawn.
>
> >>>> Which of those guys looked most like your grandfather?
>
> >>> Brian,
>
> >>> Your mother could pee while standing up.
>
> >>> -Philip
>
> >> FuckTard, ALL women CAN pee while standing up. Try again, LawGirl.
>
> > Not while holding a dick, like your mom.
>
> FuckTard, we all knew what you were *trying* to communicate. I hope you
> do a better job or communicating for the few clients that you have.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
You hurt my tender little feelings, Brian.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: McQuaid comes out from under his rock...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2696859d9e50f3db?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 11:59 am
From: Keith
...where he was apparently living, yes there is a problem in
Spain...er wait, where did Operation Puerto come from...never mind.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 4:56 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"
"Keith" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:j60fa65v4fnlfqltlt4lg5j726qikhdu8j@4ax.com...
> ...where he was apparently living, yes there is a problem in
> Spain...er wait, where did Operation Puerto come from...never mind.
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-criticises-spanish-government?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=news_headlines
McQuaid's throwing Contador under the bus. I think we're seeing a message
here, an extreme resentment of Contador's attempts to manipulate the UCI by
trying to take control of the dissemination of information regarding the
behind-the-scenes stuff, making it appear that the UCI is working with him
to prove his innocence. Contador went too far, and McQuaid realized this
could end very badly if he was on the wrong side.
For now, McQuaid doesn't criticize Contador directly, but you'd have to be
pretty stupid not to read between the lines.
How could Riis be so disconnected that he had no idea any of this was going
down???
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
==============================================================================
TOPIC: tied for Bronze
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3e37b2f517b22fa1?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 1:11 pm
From: --D-y
I found this refreshing. Only thing I minded was "Phinney Sneaks Into
Bronze". I mean, it sounds like they had a well-contested sprint and
there was a tie for third. Whatever, the headline isn't official, and
this placing might go against Anolexia Grewal's assertion that "twenty
years from now no one will remember how you did it".
An important result for the career, and he's an American. Bravo!
--Chauvinisky
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Which would you choose? Which would Bruce choose?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2b0e1926fc380faf?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 2:20 pm
From: ronaldo_jeremiah
-rj
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Worlds On Now!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/9fbebdac92974eaf?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 4:46 pm
From: Jute Andre
http://www.fromsport.com/v-0/6/102/v-70343.html
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 5:28 pm
From: Fred Flintstein
On 10/2/2010 6:46 PM, Jute Andre wrote:
> http://www.fromsport.com/v-0/6/102/v-70343.html
I hope Worlds never goes back to Australia. One of
the cool things about Euro coverage is the helicopter
shots of interesting architecture. Not gonna get that
this year.
Fred Flintstein
==============================================================================
TOPIC: RIP RAAM Fred #1
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/ee308000b422299d?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 5:03 pm
From: Steven Bornfeld
On 9/30/2010 7:40 PM, Steve Freides wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>
> I wrote:
>
>>> I wonder if anyone has tried to train sleep deprivation, e.g.,
>>> gradually lengthening their work day past 24 hours, or doing
>>> something like alternating a week of only a few hours sleep with a
>>> week of unrestricted sleep. I imagine - and it's only a guess - that
>>> one could become at least somewhat acclimated to this, but I really
>>> don't know.
>>>
>>> -S-
>>
>> I assume that serious RAAMers do "train" for sleep deprivation if only
>> to mentally prepare for the effects.
>
> I'm not so sure - nor am I suggesting it's an effective strategy, but I
> haven't heard about it being done at all.
>
>> Isolation experiments have demonstrated that the natural body clock
>> will do things like lengthen out to 36-hour "days," but that's with a
>> proportionate amount of the "day" still devoted to sleep.
>>
>> "Somewhat acclimated" is probably right, and the Wikipedia article on
>> sleep deprivation is interesting throughout:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_deprivation#Impairment_of_ability
>
> That article still doesn't mention what I have in mind. If you'll allow
> an example of another body system, eating and insulin response. Most
> people who eat several times per day feel lousy if they miss a meal,
> even lousier if they miss two in a single day. But there are thousand
> of people who practice one form or another of intermittent fasting,
> e.g., there's a program that recommends, for purposes of weight loss
> primarily, a 24-hour fast done twice a week.
Most authorities recommend smaller, more frequent meals. This is for
health, not performance. Obviously if you are fasting, a lot depends
upon your level of activity.
If you are fasting and active, you train your body to use fat. Long
ago, when endurance athletes started carbo loading, I tried it before I
planned to do my first century ride. At this point you did this by
carbohydrate depletion for several days while staying active, and then
carbo loaded before your event. This was not fun. It's also not safe
for anyone with abnormal glucose tolerance. So yes, you can demonstrate
how fasting coupled with long-steady endurance training will "teach" the
muscles to burn more fat, esp. when the glycogen is gone.
I doubt very much that sleep is understood anywhere near as well as
carbohydrate or fat metabolism. But besides the obvious safety risks of
enforced sleep deprivation, I've never heard of sleep deprivation being
something you can "train".
Maybe I'm wrong. But I think it's more like trying to train your body
to do better tolerating dehydration. I don't think that works either.
Steve
>
> Further, there are people - the Bragg family, about whom I know because
> I read a book by one of them - routinely eat nothing but slightly
> flavored water for three days at a time, sometimes even as long a week
> or more.
>
> So, what I'm asking is if one could, e.g., try something like staying up
> for 24 hours, twice a week, and eventually adapt to it, to the point
> where, like a short bike ride can be training for a longer one, those
> 24-hour awake episodes become "normal" enough that going for a bit
> longer wouldn't be nearly as difficult as it otherwise might be.
>
> If anyone is aware of such a thing having been tried and/or studies, I'd
> love to know about it.
>
> No, I'm not planning on doing RAAM - I abhor participating endurance
> events, but I am curious about this since the not eating often thing is
> actually what I do almost every day and it works great for me. I eat
> only one meal per day at dinner - the rest of the day I might have just
> water, coffee and/or tea, and maybe a 100 calorie chewie bar at 4 PM or
> something along those lines if I'm feeling hungry. Google "Warrior
> Diet" or "Eat Stop Eat" or "Intermittent Fasting" to read more about
> this approach to eating.
>
>> Solo RAAM is a pretty bizarre event. "Some racers do hallucinate and
>> this can make for some entertaining stories." Entertaining? Really?
>> Hallucinating while riding on public roads? It would be even less
>> funny if they were driving a car, but at least the risk to non-
>> participants is pretty low.
>>
>> Indeed, given the hazards of the World Sleep-Deprivation-on-a-Bike
>> Championships, I'm a little surprised there haven't been more
>> accidents. I daresay the high DNF rate tells a tale.
>
> Yes, I agree it's a weird event, but so is Paris-Brest-Paris, and so are
> a lot of other, similar events involving bicycles.
>
> -S-
>
>
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 5:43 pm
From: "Steve Freides"
Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> On 9/30/2010 7:40 PM, Steve Freides wrote:
>> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>>
>> I wrote:
>>
>>>> I wonder if anyone has tried to train sleep deprivation, e.g.,
>>>> gradually lengthening their work day past 24 hours, or doing
>>>> something like alternating a week of only a few hours sleep with a
>>>> week of unrestricted sleep. I imagine - and it's only a guess -
>>>> that one could become at least somewhat acclimated to this, but I
>>>> really don't know.
>>>>
>>>> -S-
>>>
>>> I assume that serious RAAMers do "train" for sleep deprivation if
>>> only to mentally prepare for the effects.
>>
>> I'm not so sure - nor am I suggesting it's an effective strategy,
>> but I haven't heard about it being done at all.
>>
>>> Isolation experiments have demonstrated that the natural body clock
>>> will do things like lengthen out to 36-hour "days," but that's with
>>> a proportionate amount of the "day" still devoted to sleep.
>>>
>>> "Somewhat acclimated" is probably right, and the Wikipedia article
>>> on sleep deprivation is interesting throughout:
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_deprivation#Impairment_of_ability
>>
>> That article still doesn't mention what I have in mind. If you'll
>> allow an example of another body system, eating and insulin
>> response. Most people who eat several times per day feel lousy if
>> they miss a meal, even lousier if they miss two in a single day. But
>> there are thousand of people who practice one form or another of
>> intermittent fasting, e.g., there's a program that recommends, for
>> purposes of weight loss primarily, a 24-hour fast done twice a week.
>
> Most authorities recommend smaller, more frequent meals. This is for
> health, not performance.
The same thing could be said about running shoes - a highly technical
shoe that protects the foot is, at least 10 years ago, what most experts
were recommending. Fortunately, barefoot running is making a comeback.
Our insulin response system is absolutely trainable, and for one's
health, one ought to train it.
> Obviously if you are fasting, a lot depends
> upon your level of activity.
>
> If you are fasting and active, you train your body to use fat. Long
> ago, when endurance athletes started carbo loading, I tried it before
> I planned to do my first century ride. At this point you did this by
> carbohydrate depletion for several days while staying active, and then
> carbo loaded before your event. This was not fun. It's also not safe
> for anyone with abnormal glucose tolerance. So yes, you can
> demonstrate how fasting coupled with long-steady endurance training
> will "teach" the muscles to burn more fat, esp. when the glycogen is
> gone.
What I do, and the many, many others who practice some form of what I
call cyclic eating do, isn't carb loading or anything like that. I have
learned to embrace eating what I need, not what I want, and learning to
need less. I look at it very much like weight lifting - if you put 300
lbs. in front of me before I started weight lifting and asked me to pick
it up, either the weight wouldn't move, I'd have ended up in the
hospital, or both. But now, it's no problem, and practicing it keeps me
strong. Same thing with intermittent fasting and its various
permutations.
> I doubt very much that sleep is understood anywhere near as well as
> carbohydrate or fat metabolism. But besides the obvious safety risks
> of enforced sleep deprivation, I've never heard of sleep deprivation
> being something you can "train".
>
> Maybe I'm wrong. But I think it's more like trying to train your body
> to do better tolerating dehydration. I don't think that works either.
I don't know about dehyrdration - the mind is such an important of any
physical performance, and we certainly can get used to functioning in a
state of less than perfect hydration, but whether or not we physically
adapt in some way isn't something I know anything about. Ditto sleep
deprivation, but I am curious, which is why I think it ought to be
studied. The food thing has been well studied, but no one like to talk
about it because it doesn't serve anyone's financial interests. In
animal studies, alternating periods of 24 hours of no food with 24 hour
periods of unlimited caloric intake resulted in more muscle and less
fat. I humbly offer myself as but one example of this working in human
beings, too.
I highly recommend the book "Consistent Winning" which talks about the
cyclic nature of human beings.
-S-
==============================================================================
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "rec.bicycles.racing"
group.
To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rec.bicycles.racing+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/subscribe?hl=en
To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com
==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en
Posts
