Thursday, October 28, 2010

Medarticles regarding refferences

Buzz It
Hello,
I need following article and book.

1. RECENT PLANT INVASIONS IN THE ARID AND SEMI-ARID SOUTHWEST OF THE
UNITED STATES
DAVID R. HARRIS
Article first published online: 23 FEB 2005

DOI: 10.1111/j.1467-8306.1966.tb00569.x
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-8306.1966.tb00569.x/abstract


2. Charles S. Elton
The Ecology of Invasions by Animals and Plants
196 pages, 42 halftones 6 x 9 © 1958, 2000
ISBN: 9780226206387 Published June 2000
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/presssite/metadata.epl?mode=synopsis&bookkey=3614808
Thanks in advance

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alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets - 25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

Buzz It
alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets?hl=en

alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Hey Right Wing Blow Hards: if Democrates are that bad (and on the lunatic
fringe), how come they are about to hold onto the Senate? - 3 messages, 3
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/0c5ee00be1b4efbe?hl=en
* Figures... - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/7651e54f2d08e4d3?hl=en
* OT: very - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/4cbdbbc4266c3ff1?hl=en
* Getting to like Woody (Johnson)... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/569381ea4fbd5de5?hl=en
* The Jets Pass Rush - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/dcda87b4e3618fce?hl=en
* Cheating Patriots! ... HISTORY LESSON TIME - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/4eae9fbce6dd76e9?hl=en
* AP article on jets - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/44cf4a0d6f5a7715?hl=en
* Unbeatable - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/b1381d331f518324?hl=en
* Fish - Steelers... - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/79d09595978f395a?hl=en
* Rex & Thurman on Kyle Wilson... not good... - 4 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/a0c8cc1074b9a5f0?hl=en
* Click And Get Instant $1000 Coupon To Your Paypal. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/821c5c8a3ad4c3f0?hl=en
* her husband is far away she need a date - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/faaa31b113ace402?hl=en
* UGG 5879 BOOT - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/1d7fb36d67435f27?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hey Right Wing Blow Hards: if Democrates are that bad (and on the
lunatic fringe), how come they are about to hold onto the Senate?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/0c5ee00be1b4efbe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 1:52 pm
From: MuahMan


Why are they going to hold on to the Senate? Because the country has
more stupid people than ever before. As our country becomes dumber and
dumber the Democrats take more seats. America is dead. Unless we have
a 2nd Civil War it will die with 10 years.


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 2:20 pm
From: Polarhound


On 10/28/2010 9:46 AM, Sexy Jockaholic wrote:
> On Oct 27, 5:10 pm, Polarhound<polarho...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 10/27/2010 12:24 PM, Sexy Jockaholic wrote:
>>
>>> If they are really that bad, why are they about to still control the Senate? (looks like
>>> 51-49 by realclearpolitics.com). Yes, the House will go Republican.
>>> So the balance of power will look like:
>>
>> It is not surprising that you fail to know the reason for this,
>> especially since you obviously flunked Government 101.
>>
>> Why don't you go read up on how US Senate elections work then get back
>> to us? I have to warn you though that it may be a bit over your head...
>> It involves fractions!
>
> What the F are you talking about? There are 100 U.S. Senators, right
> now it is 59-41 Democrats to Republicans. After the election next
> week, it looks to be 51-49 Dems, according to realclearpolitics.com,
> so maybe you should be the one to go back to Government 101!

You DO realize that only 1/3rd of all Senate seats come up for election
every 2 years.... RIGHT? I mean, this basic fact about how things work
could obviously not have been overlooked by a savant such as yourself!


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 8:40 pm
From: bobby


On 10/27/2010 12:24 PM, Sexy Jockaholic stopped jerking off long enough
to scribble:

>
> Presidency: Democrat nigger
> House: Republican
> Senate: Democrat homosexuals
> Supreme Court: 5-4 Conservative
>
> Looks pretty even to me. Wow, the "lunatic fringe" huh Rush, Sean, and
> Ann?

This from a NewYork nigger lovin liberal

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Figures...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/7651e54f2d08e4d3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 2:01 pm
From: "JKConey"

"buRford" <buRford@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
news:i6thc6lulucfk5704943n5rippk2bhme17@4ax.com...
> Thanks, JK.
> It's funny, the last woman I spoke to, seemed to be trying to pick me up.
> It was bizarre,
> especially since they probably tape all calls ;)

Yes Jets fans are very popular these days with the ladies!


--

www.myconeyislandmemories.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 2:02 pm
From: "JKConey"

"John C TX" <johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ed854de-0ebe-4d1e-aade-14660396ae15@d8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
> X-No-Archive: Yes
> Thanks for the reminder...
>
> btw I see your Coney island link. Have you seen the HBO doc on the
> hoopsters from Brighton Beach?

Yes several of them were in my class, and I had the hots for Madelline
too.


--

www.myconeyislandmemories.com


==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: very
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/4cbdbbc4266c3ff1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 2:15 pm
From: John C TX


On Oct 28, 11:45 am, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:87eb159b-4959-46ef-8cf1-467e31626cbc@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 27, 2:13 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 11:07:10 -0700 (PDT), John C TX
> > <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
> > >> On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 07:15:00 -0700 (PDT), John C TX
> > >> <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> >X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > >> >I realize that many of you are not remotely conservative and see an
> > >> >agenda when they watch Fox. Now look at this article in the Boston
> > >> >Globe and you will see that fallacies are not restricted to one side
> > >> >of the other. It also a good example of why this country is so
> > >> >polarized.
>
> > >> >I have followed this wind farm relatively closely. I am not in energy
> > >> >and I live far away but I found this issue intriguing. When I was
> > >> >vacationing up there regularly it seemed odd that a state that
> > >> >proclaims itself as progressive would be against something that is
> > >> >green. The wind farm falls neatly into the grid --a big issue for
> > >> >wind generation, would provide jobs, and is renewable. As I looked the
> > >> >wind farm had state wide support but was being fought by the elite on
> > >> >Cape Cod.
>
> > >> >The argument made by those against it would start off about killing
> > >> >birds, destroying views, hurting fish (give me a break) , blah, blah,
> > >> >blah. Then you have some, many who would generally vote GOP, saying
> > >> >how the govt shouldn't subsidize renewables and how lefties in the
> > >> >Cape who fought it didn't see their obvious hypocrisy is beyond me.
>
> > >> >Anyway Koch mentioned in the article is a conservative but is not why
> > >> >he is against this wind farm. He is against it for the same reason
> > >> >Kennedy was against it. He is rich & he doesn't want a 1/2" blip on
> > >> >his horizon on clear days. He is rich and he is not used to be told
> > >> >no. His brother's (also very conservative /Libertarian) have renewable
> > >> >groups in their company-- biggest private company in the world. He
> > >> >hates them why didn't they make that link? That he was against it to
> > >> >hurt the brothers he sued.
>
> > >> >The Globe took an issue that had support across the country from both
> > >> >sides of the aisle and now after it is approved they are trying to
> > >> >turn it into a GOP bogeyman. No wonder people can't talk. This is
> > >> >bad journalism & poisons public discourse.
>
> > >> >If you get bored.
>
> > >> >Wind farm foe gave $100,000 to aid GOP
>
> > >> >By Michael Rezendes, Globe Staff | October 26, 2010
>
> > >> >A month ago, as the battle over a proposed wind farm in Nantucket
> > >> >Sound was being heard by state regulators, William I. Koch, the fossil
> > >> >fuel magnate and Cape Cod summer resident, donated $100,000 to the
> > >> >Republican Governors Association.
>
> > >> >Koch, a longtime opponent of Cape Wind and cochairman of the Alliance
> > >> >to Protect Nantucket Sound, made the donation in part to support
> > >> >Republican Charles D. Baker, another Cape Wind opponent, in the race
> > >> >for governor.
>
> > >> >"It's no secret we oppose Cape Wind,'' said Brad Goldstein, a
> > >> >spokesman for Koch at the Oxbow Group, the $4 billion fossil fuel
> > >> >conglomerate that Koch runs from his Florida home.
>
> > >> >Baker has called the proposal a "sweetheart deal'' among state
> > >> >officials, Cape Wind, and electricity provider National Grid. He has
> > >> >been aided in his campaign by more than $5 million in spending by the
> > >> >governors association.
>
> > >> >Cape Wind, for its part, has financially supported Governor Deval
> > >> >Patrick, a Democrat and avid supporter of the proposal. Two officials
> > >> >have made numerous direct contributions to the governor and his
> > >> >running mate, Lieutenant Governor Timothy P. Murray. They have not,
> > >> >however, made any recent contributions to the Democratic Governors
> > >> >Association, which has provided more than $3 million for ads produced
> > >> >by an outside group supporting Patrick.
>
> > >> >Cape Wind president James S. Gordon has given a total of $2,500 to
> > >> >Patrick since 2005 and another $1,000 to Murray, according to campaign
> > >> >finance records. He has also given $10,500 to the Democratic State
> > >> >Committee, which is helping Patrick in his run for governor.
>
> > >> >In addition, Mitchell H. Jacobs, Gordon's partner at Energy Management
> > >> >Inc., Cape Wind's developer, has given $1,500 to Patrick, $1,000 to
> > >> >Murray, and another $2,000 to the Democratic State Committee. He also
> > >> >donated $250 to Baker this year.
>
> > >> >Still, Mark Rodgers, a spokesman for Cape Wind, said Koch's six-figure
> > >> >donation to the Republican Governors Association is evidence that his
> > >> >financial interest in fossil fuels is driving his fight against the
> > >> >wind energy proposal. "The public has a right to know that oil and
> > >> >coal money has been fueling the opposition's misinformation campaign
> > >> >against an offshore wind farm,'' Rodgers said.
>
> > >> >But Goldstein said Koch's opposition has nothing to do with his
> > >> >business interests. Instead, he said, it is based on Koch's status as
> > >> >a summer homeowner in Osterville, his passion for sailing — Koch won
> > >> >the 1992 America's Cup race — and his belief that the proposal is bad
> > >> >for ratepayers.
>
> > >> >"Bill thinks it's a boondoggle for Jim Gordon,'' Goldstein said. "He
> > >> >wants to see the sound preserved, and he definitely has some homeowner
> > >> >interest.''
>
> > >> >In addition, Goldstein said Koch's donation to the association was
> > >> >also meant to help Republican gubernatorial candidates across the
> > >> >country — including incumbent Rick Perry in Texas, and Meg Whitman in
> > >> >California, where Oxbow has significant business interests. Oxbow has
> > >> >more than 300 employees working at three facilities in Texas, for
> > >> >example. It conducts no operations in New England.
>
> > >> >The battle over Cape Wind, potentially the nation's first offshore
> > >> >wind farm, has raged for much of the last decade, pitting proponents
> > >> >of renewable energy against preservationists and some prominent Cape
> > >> >Cod homeowners, including Koch and the late Edward M. Kennedy.
>
> > >> >The Department of Public Utilities held public hearings on the
> > >> >proposal in September and is expected to reach a decision by mid-
> > >> >November. If the agency approves the deal, which is projected to raise
> > >> >customers' monthly electricity rates by about 2 percent, opponents
> > >> >will be able to appeal to the state's Supreme Judicial Court.
>
> > >> >In the meantime, both sides have pushed their respective causes in the
> > >> >political arena, making donations designed to influence the hotly
> > >> >contested race for governor and collectively spending about $4 million
> > >> >to lobby members of Congress.
>
> > >> >Since the early 2000s, the Alliance and Cape Wind have each spent
> > >> >about $1.5 million dollars on their lobbying efforts. In addition,
> > >> >Oxbow, which is privately held, paid $1 million to a lobbying firm
> > >> >that worked against the Cape Wind proposal from 2005 to 2007, when
> > >> >Kennedy was seeking to kill it.
>
> > >> >Federal records show that much of Oxbow's $1 million was spent to
> > >> >directly influence the outcome of the wind farm debate. But they also
> > >> >show that the lobbying firm, US Strategies, worked on other issues,
> > >> >such as tax credits and other matters that Goldstein said might have
> > >> >included Oxbow's international shipping interests.
>
> > >> >Oxbow is a collection of more than two dozen companies with 15
> > >> >locations across the United States and two dozen more spread out over
> > >> >five continents, according to Oxbow's website. Its primary businesses
> > >> >are mining and the sale of coal, natural gas, and petroleum. It is
> > >> >also the world's largest distributor of petroleum coke, a solid fuel
> > >> >that is a byproduct of the oil refining process.
>
> > >> >Oxbow is unrelated to Koch Industries, the Wichita-based energy
> > >> >conglomerate owned by Koch's two brothers, Charles and David, both of
> > >> >whom are prodigious funders of libertarian causes. Oxbow's William
> > >> >Koch waged a bitter legal battle against his brothers during the 1980s
> > >> >and 1990s, contending he was cheated when he sold his stake in their
> > >> >company.
>
> > >> >The Cape Wind proposal — which calls for 130 turbines, each 440 feet
> > >> >high, to be built over 24 square miles in Nantucket Sound — has also
> > >> >become an issue in the race between Attorney General Martha Coakley, a
> > >> >Democrat, and her Republican challenger, James P. McKenna.
>
> > >> >In August, Coakley garnered headlines when she urged the Department of
> > >> >Public Utilities to approve an agreement between Cape Wind and
> > >> >National Grid, after she negotiated a 10 percent reduction in the
> > >> >price of power from the turbines.
>
> > >> >McKenna, for his part, has urged the agency to reject the deal, saying
> > >> >it will be too costly for ratepayers. He has criticized Coakley for
> > >> >accepting $4,800 in campaign contributions from Cape Wind's Gordon
> > >> >during her unsuccessful campaign to fill Kennedy's US Senate seat.
>
> > >> >"Jim Gordon stands to personally profit greatly from Coakley's
> > >> >continued political power,'' McKenna said in a statement.
>
> > >> >But campaign records show that Gordon hedged his bets, giving $4,800,
> > >> >the combined legal maximum in the primary and general elections, to
> > >> >both Coakley and US Representative Michael E. Capuano, another
> > >> >candidate in the Democratic primary.
>
> > >> >Jacobs, Gordon's business partner, gave $1,000 to Coakley.
>
> > >> >Brian C. Mooney off the Globe staff contributed to this report.
> > >> >Michael Rezendes can be reached at rezen...@globe.com.
> > >> >© Copyright 2010 The New York Times Company
>
> > >> My problem with FoxNews, is that they call themselves a news
> > >> organization,
> > >> which they're not. They're basically the Media/Propaganda arm of the
> > >> GOP.
> > >> If they just presented stories with a right-wing slant, that would be
> > >> cool... but they too
> > >> often spew outright, proven lies, to rile their base. Just for one
> > >> story, the Black
> > >> Panther intimidation crap, which never happened.
>
> > >CNN, Fox MSNBC have found opinions & commentaries rate higher than
> > >news. People would rather throw their shoe in anger at the TV. The
> > >left shoe & the right rather than hear details & both sides of an
> > >issue.
>
> > CNN changes it's lean as the wind blows. At the moment they're leaning to
> > the right.
> > MSNBC during the day, doesn't have much of a lean left... it's at night
> > when it goes
> > progressive. And I imagine that will be short-lived, with Comcast buying
> > NBC (all their
> > top execs are ex-Fox execs).
>
> > >Fox filled a void because many on the right tired of what they
> > >perceived as a bias from the left. The result is that both "sides"
> > >are now even more biased. Josef Goebbels would be proud.
>
> > To me, there's a distinction. Look at the commentators on Fox, many of
> > them are actual
> > candidates (Palin, Huckabee, etc), you don't see that anywhere else. And
> > Murdoch openly
> > contributes to the GOP.
>
> You can find them on CNN & MSNBC but that is fair comment if Fox is
> doing it more frequently. I will have to look --s*** now I have to
> watch it. :)
>
> > I think Goebbels would be proud... but that too, I see a distinction. If
> > you follow the
> > broad news in the US Media, they tend to follow the GOP talking points.
> > And because the
> > GOP drums the *left-wing* media point, they tend to try to show their
> > *balance,* by going
> > harder after Dems.
> > Watch all Sunday talk shows, and the questions are always through a GOP
> > prism. The GOP is
> > great at drumming their propaganda, over & over & over... and the Media
> > follows. The Dems
> > tend to be all over the place, and haven't a clue how to get out their
> > message. Hence,
> > more people now believe Obama a Muslim, etc. And for instance, in polling,
> > a majority is
> > against the healthcare legislation, but if you ask them individually,
> > about what it
> > contains, they like it.
>
> There are huge problems with that bill.  Let me ask the questions.
>
> :)
>
> > But of course, we'll disagree on this ;)
>
> We do.
>
> I think they have a tendency to play to those "out of power" except on
> certain issues. They swing too far in that they take a Pollyanna view
> of the world all the way to a doom and gloom.  There is a reason why
> textbook journalism, not that it was always followed, tried to to
> train reporters
>
>
>
> > >> As for this story, the Koch brothers have recently gotten a lot of
> > >> attention (finally),
> > >> because of their funding/founding of the *tea party...* and other
> > >> political/media stuff.
>
> > >The Koch brothers aren't linked to this Koch. My point is the headline
> > >and the early theme GOP is anti-wind. Why not this as a headline"
>
> > Headlines tend to be all over the place, just to get people to start
> > reading a story.
> > I hate it. I'll see a headline, start reading, and the point of the
> > article is something
> > else. If they cover all sides, I tend to ignore the headline spin... it's
> > like any
> > advertisement... BS ;)
>
> buRf, it isn't just the headline and why are they sensational inside
> the paper?  There are idiots who just read the headline then of those
> who get into the article how many make it past the 1st 3 paragraphs?
> They aren't columnists & for all our sake they must get back to
> reporting. This story was biased and they had a purpose.
>
>
>
> > >"Koch blocked his brother's renewable efforts"
>
> > >It would be as fallacious as the headline they chose. The opposition
> > >was rich guys with vacation homes. Some are Dems & some are GOPers.
>
> > >As for the Tea Partiers & Koch, it is the same as Soros. Everyone
> > >hates the other guy's money. The media stirs it up but they really
> > >don't want it to end. BTW The New Yorker piece on the Kochs could be
> > >used in rhetoric class as could this Globe piece.
>
> > >I am consistent. These advocacy groups and PACs are poison. They
> > >should be made illegal .Let people give away to the candidates-- or
> > >amend the Constitution so Buckley v Valeo is moot- just tell me who
> > >is giving to whom.
>
> > Soros is the sleight of hand on the Right, because he's the only big money
> > guy... so they
> > can say, *see, the Dems have them too.*
>
> buRf, but that is the problem.  His money is just as corrupting.  Yes,
> the GOP has access to more people with money but with hard $ limits to
> the candidate and PACs it is limiting.  If you know any successful
> plaintiffs lawyer Google his name & see how much he gave in the last
> cycle. It can't be about the other guy's money. Just the money.
>
> > On the right, you have 10s of billionaires doing the funding.
> > It's just like with Citizens United... *the Unions can give money now
> > too,* as if the
> > shrinking unions can possible compete with multi-national corporations.
> > And everyone
> > knows where union money comes from... its members. Not so with the
> > corporations, 527s,
> > etc.
>
> Except union members don't have a choice. Here is my big worry as
> conservative and not as GOPer.
>
> If you  read their writings many of the founding fathers who were
> largely a bunch of rich Wasps feared the raiding of the Treasury by
> the masses.  As a HS & college student it struck me as elitist.
> Unfortunately under every Congress since Watergate  they hand out
> money we have to print but I digress.
>
> I agree, unions are dying in the trade & manufacturing sectors, but
> they are growing at all levels of govt and health care-- a big part of
> health care reform.  So now we have candidates beholden to our
> employees.  That was the case for years with teachers and now it is
> spreading to all govt workers. Look at IL & CA.  The pols can't even
> begin to touch their problems for fear of getting tossed out.
>
> > But, I agree with you... all these organizations/people/corporations have
> > destroyed
> > everything. I actually wish the *tea party* was a real grass-roots thing,
> > even if it was
> > right-wing. Always good to see the People become active. Unfortunately,
> > it's not.
>
> > >> So, more than anything, I think part of this is just a continuation of
> > >> that storyline.
> > >> Not sure about the left-wing hypocrisy in this piece, as it brings up
> > >> the Dems who were
> > >> being paid off, and mentioned Kennedy as an opponent. Or maybe I missed
> > >> your point...
> > >> where you're seeing the hypocrisy?
>
> > >The headline certainly tried to link that he gave money to the GOP &
> > >his opposition to the Wind Farm. The Kennedy's are buried deep in the
> > >article. It was certainly an attempt to link the GOP as anti-wind.
> > >This wasn't left vs. right but rich vs.the right thing.
>
> > >I only used the word hypocrisy to the Dems who were fought the farm.
> > >They are green unless the own a beach house.
>
> > I'd say it was these Dems. As I always say, the Dems are all over the
> > place.
> > Left-wing, center, right-wing, although after the election, I imagine a
> > bunch of
> > right-wing Dems will be booted out. Which will, of course, make the divide
> > between
> > parties larger.
> > We be f*cked ;)
>
> I hope not.
>
> __________________________________________________________________________________________
>
> John,  What are the problems with the healthcare bill besides the ones
> created in an attempt to placate the Republicans before they even
> negotiated?  I'm serious, I would like you opinion.

There are few very bad parts of the plan. To do it justice I want to
answer with some thought.

You will be surprised not all my bitching is about the "liberal"side
of the bill. The process was flawed but Democrats had to have
something. I am not be posting again for a few days.

If Boehner gets in the GOP & the Dem voters should hold his feet to
the fire on changing the House process.


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 3:23 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"John C TX" <johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ceb6d9e1-1f2e-47f6-b9f0-0ca6fffce653@c20g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 28, 11:45 am, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in
> messagenews:87eb159b-4959-46ef-8cf1-467e31626cbc@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 27, 2:13 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 11:07:10 -0700 (PDT), John C TX
> > <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
> > >> On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 07:15:00 -0700 (PDT), John C TX
> > >> <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> >X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > >> >I realize that many of you are not remotely conservative and see an
> > >> >agenda when they watch Fox. Now look at this article in the Boston
> > >> >Globe and you will see that fallacies are not restricted to one side
> > >> >of the other. It also a good example of why this country is so
> > >> >polarized.
>
> > >> >I have followed this wind farm relatively closely. I am not in
> > >> >energy
> > >> >and I live far away but I found this issue intriguing. When I was
> > >> >vacationing up there regularly it seemed odd that a state that
> > >> >proclaims itself as progressive would be against something that is
> > >> >green. The wind farm falls neatly into the grid --a big issue for
> > >> >wind generation, would provide jobs, and is renewable. As I looked
> > >> >the
> > >> >wind farm had state wide support but was being fought by the elite
> > >> >on
> > >> >Cape Cod.
>
> > >> >The argument made by those against it would start off about killing
> > >> >birds, destroying views, hurting fish (give me a break) , blah,
> > >> >blah,
> > >> >blah. Then you have some, many who would generally vote GOP, saying
> > >> >how the govt shouldn't subsidize renewables and how lefties in the
> > >> >Cape who fought it didn't see their obvious hypocrisy is beyond me.
>
> > >> >Anyway Koch mentioned in the article is a conservative but is not
> > >> >why
> > >> >he is against this wind farm. He is against it for the same reason
> > >> >Kennedy was against it. He is rich & he doesn't want a 1/2" blip on
> > >> >his horizon on clear days. He is rich and he is not used to be told
> > >> >no. His brother's (also very conservative /Libertarian) have
> > >> >renewable
> > >> >groups in their company-- biggest private company in the world. He
> > >> >hates them why didn't they make that link? That he was against it to
> > >> >hurt the brothers he sued.
>
> > >> >The Globe took an issue that had support across the country from
> > >> >both
> > >> >sides of the aisle and now after it is approved they are trying to
> > >> >turn it into a GOP bogeyman. No wonder people can't talk. This is
> > >> >bad journalism & poisons public discourse.
>
> > >> >If you get bored.
>
> > >> >Wind farm foe gave $100,000 to aid GOP
>
> > >> >By Michael Rezendes, Globe Staff | October 26, 2010
>
> > >> >A month ago, as the battle over a proposed wind farm in Nantucket
> > >> >Sound was being heard by state regulators, William I. Koch, the
> > >> >fossil
> > >> >fuel magnate and Cape Cod summer resident, donated $100,000 to the
> > >> >Republican Governors Association.
>
> > >> >Koch, a longtime opponent of Cape Wind and cochairman of the
> > >> >Alliance
> > >> >to Protect Nantucket Sound, made the donation in part to support
> > >> >Republican Charles D. Baker, another Cape Wind opponent, in the race
> > >> >for governor.
>
> > >> >"It's no secret we oppose Cape Wind,'' said Brad Goldstein, a
> > >> >spokesman for Koch at the Oxbow Group, the $4 billion fossil fuel
> > >> >conglomerate that Koch runs from his Florida home.
>
> > >> >Baker has called the proposal a "sweetheart deal'' among state
> > >> >officials, Cape Wind, and electricity provider National Grid. He has
> > >> >been aided in his campaign by more than $5 million in spending by
> > >> >the
> > >> >governors association.
>
> > >> >Cape Wind, for its part, has financially supported Governor Deval
> > >> >Patrick, a Democrat and avid supporter of the proposal. Two
> > >> >officials
> > >> >have made numerous direct contributions to the governor and his
> > >> >running mate, Lieutenant Governor Timothy P. Murray. They have not,
> > >> >however, made any recent contributions to the Democratic Governors
> > >> >Association, which has provided more than $3 million for ads
> > >> >produced
> > >> >by an outside group supporting Patrick.
>
> > >> >Cape Wind president James S. Gordon has given a total of $2,500 to
> > >> >Patrick since 2005 and another $1,000 to Murray, according to
> > >> >campaign
> > >> >finance records. He has also given $10,500 to the Democratic State
> > >> >Committee, which is helping Patrick in his run for governor.
>
> > >> >In addition, Mitchell H. Jacobs, Gordon's partner at Energy
> > >> >Management
> > >> >Inc., Cape Wind's developer, has given $1,500 to Patrick, $1,000 to
> > >> >Murray, and another $2,000 to the Democratic State Committee. He
> > >> >also
> > >> >donated $250 to Baker this year.
>
> > >> >Still, Mark Rodgers, a spokesman for Cape Wind, said Koch's
> > >> >six-figure
> > >> >donation to the Republican Governors Association is evidence that
> > >> >his
> > >> >financial interest in fossil fuels is driving his fight against the
> > >> >wind energy proposal. "The public has a right to know that oil and
> > >> >coal money has been fueling the opposition's misinformation campaign
> > >> >against an offshore wind farm,'' Rodgers said.
>
> > >> >But Goldstein said Koch's opposition has nothing to do with his
> > >> >business interests. Instead, he said, it is based on Koch's status
> > >> >as
> > >> >a summer homeowner in Osterville, his passion for sailing — Koch won
> > >> >the 1992 America's Cup race — and his belief that the proposal is
> > >> >bad
> > >> >for ratepayers.
>
> > >> >"Bill thinks it's a boondoggle for Jim Gordon,'' Goldstein said. "He
> > >> >wants to see the sound preserved, and he definitely has some
> > >> >homeowner
> > >> >interest.''
>
> > >> >In addition, Goldstein said Koch's donation to the association was
> > >> >also meant to help Republican gubernatorial candidates across the
> > >> >country — including incumbent Rick Perry in Texas, and Meg Whitman
> > >> >in
> > >> >California, where Oxbow has significant business interests. Oxbow
> > >> >has
> > >> >more than 300 employees working at three facilities in Texas, for
> > >> >example. It conducts no operations in New England.
>
> > >> >The battle over Cape Wind, potentially the nation's first offshore
> > >> >wind farm, has raged for much of the last decade, pitting proponents
> > >> >of renewable energy against preservationists and some prominent Cape
> > >> >Cod homeowners, including Koch and the late Edward M. Kennedy.
>
> > >> >The Department of Public Utilities held public hearings on the
> > >> >proposal in September and is expected to reach a decision by mid-
> > >> >November. If the agency approves the deal, which is projected to
> > >> >raise
> > >> >customers' monthly electricity rates by about 2 percent, opponents
> > >> >will be able to appeal to the state's Supreme Judicial Court.
>
> > >> >In the meantime, both sides have pushed their respective causes in
> > >> >the
> > >> >political arena, making donations designed to influence the hotly
> > >> >contested race for governor and collectively spending about $4
> > >> >million
> > >> >to lobby members of Congress.
>
> > >> >Since the early 2000s, the Alliance and Cape Wind have each spent
> > >> >about $1.5 million dollars on their lobbying efforts. In addition,
> > >> >Oxbow, which is privately held, paid $1 million to a lobbying firm
> > >> >that worked against the Cape Wind proposal from 2005 to 2007, when
> > >> >Kennedy was seeking to kill it.
>
> > >> >Federal records show that much of Oxbow's $1 million was spent to
> > >> >directly influence the outcome of the wind farm debate. But they
> > >> >also
> > >> >show that the lobbying firm, US Strategies, worked on other issues,
> > >> >such as tax credits and other matters that Goldstein said might have
> > >> >included Oxbow's international shipping interests.
>
> > >> >Oxbow is a collection of more than two dozen companies with 15
> > >> >locations across the United States and two dozen more spread out
> > >> >over
> > >> >five continents, according to Oxbow's website. Its primary
> > >> >businesses
> > >> >are mining and the sale of coal, natural gas, and petroleum. It is
> > >> >also the world's largest distributor of petroleum coke, a solid fuel
> > >> >that is a byproduct of the oil refining process.
>
> > >> >Oxbow is unrelated to Koch Industries, the Wichita-based energy
> > >> >conglomerate owned by Koch's two brothers, Charles and David, both
> > >> >of
> > >> >whom are prodigious funders of libertarian causes. Oxbow's William
> > >> >Koch waged a bitter legal battle against his brothers during the
> > >> >1980s
> > >> >and 1990s, contending he was cheated when he sold his stake in their
> > >> >company.
>
> > >> >The Cape Wind proposal — which calls for 130 turbines, each 440 feet
> > >> >high, to be built over 24 square miles in Nantucket Sound — has also
> > >> >become an issue in the race between Attorney General Martha Coakley,
> > >> >a
> > >> >Democrat, and her Republican challenger, James P. McKenna.
>
> > >> >In August, Coakley garnered headlines when she urged the Department
> > >> >of
> > >> >Public Utilities to approve an agreement between Cape Wind and
> > >> >National Grid, after she negotiated a 10 percent reduction in the
> > >> >price of power from the turbines.
>
> > >> >McKenna, for his part, has urged the agency to reject the deal,
> > >> >saying
> > >> >it will be too costly for ratepayers. He has criticized Coakley for
> > >> >accepting $4,800 in campaign contributions from Cape Wind's Gordon
> > >> >during her unsuccessful campaign to fill Kennedy's US Senate seat.
>
> > >> >"Jim Gordon stands to personally profit greatly from Coakley's
> > >> >continued political power,'' McKenna said in a statement.
>
> > >> >But campaign records show that Gordon hedged his bets, giving
> > >> >$4,800,
> > >> >the combined legal maximum in the primary and general elections, to
> > >> >both Coakley and US Representative Michael E. Capuano, another
> > >> >candidate in the Democratic primary.
>
> > >> >Jacobs, Gordon's business partner, gave $1,000 to Coakley.
>
> > >> >Brian C. Mooney off the Globe staff contributed to this report.
> > >> >Michael Rezendes can be reached at rezen...@globe.com.
> > >> >© Copyright 2010 The New York Times Company
>
> > >> My problem with FoxNews, is that they call themselves a news
> > >> organization,
> > >> which they're not. They're basically the Media/Propaganda arm of the
> > >> GOP.
> > >> If they just presented stories with a right-wing slant, that would be
> > >> cool... but they too
> > >> often spew outright, proven lies, to rile their base. Just for one
> > >> story, the Black
> > >> Panther intimidation crap, which never happened.
>
> > >CNN, Fox MSNBC have found opinions & commentaries rate higher than
> > >news. People would rather throw their shoe in anger at the TV. The
> > >left shoe & the right rather than hear details & both sides of an
> > >issue.
>
> > CNN changes it's lean as the wind blows. At the moment they're leaning
> > to
> > the right.
> > MSNBC during the day, doesn't have much of a lean left... it's at night
> > when it goes
> > progressive. And I imagine that will be short-lived, with Comcast buying
> > NBC (all their
> > top execs are ex-Fox execs).
>
> > >Fox filled a void because many on the right tired of what they
> > >perceived as a bias from the left. The result is that both "sides"
> > >are now even more biased. Josef Goebbels would be proud.
>
> > To me, there's a distinction. Look at the commentators on Fox, many of
> > them are actual
> > candidates (Palin, Huckabee, etc), you don't see that anywhere else. And
> > Murdoch openly
> > contributes to the GOP.
>
> You can find them on CNN & MSNBC but that is fair comment if Fox is
> doing it more frequently. I will have to look --s*** now I have to
> watch it. :)
>
> > I think Goebbels would be proud... but that too, I see a distinction. If
> > you follow the
> > broad news in the US Media, they tend to follow the GOP talking points.
> > And because the
> > GOP drums the *left-wing* media point, they tend to try to show their
> > *balance,* by going
> > harder after Dems.
> > Watch all Sunday talk shows, and the questions are always through a GOP
> > prism. The GOP is
> > great at drumming their propaganda, over & over & over... and the Media
> > follows. The Dems
> > tend to be all over the place, and haven't a clue how to get out their
> > message. Hence,
> > more people now believe Obama a Muslim, etc. And for instance, in
> > polling,
> > a majority is
> > against the healthcare legislation, but if you ask them individually,
> > about what it
> > contains, they like it.
>
> There are huge problems with that bill. Let me ask the questions.
>
> :)
>
> > But of course, we'll disagree on this ;)
>
> We do.
>
> I think they have a tendency to play to those "out of power" except on
> certain issues. They swing too far in that they take a Pollyanna view
> of the world all the way to a doom and gloom. There is a reason why
> textbook journalism, not that it was always followed, tried to to
> train reporters
>
>
>
> > >> As for this story, the Koch brothers have recently gotten a lot of
> > >> attention (finally),
> > >> because of their funding/founding of the *tea party...* and other
> > >> political/media stuff.
>
> > >The Koch brothers aren't linked to this Koch. My point is the headline
> > >and the early theme GOP is anti-wind. Why not this as a headline"
>
> > Headlines tend to be all over the place, just to get people to start
> > reading a story.
> > I hate it. I'll see a headline, start reading, and the point of the
> > article is something
> > else. If they cover all sides, I tend to ignore the headline spin...
> > it's
> > like any
> > advertisement... BS ;)
>
> buRf, it isn't just the headline and why are they sensational inside
> the paper? There are idiots who just read the headline then of those
> who get into the article how many make it past the 1st 3 paragraphs?
> They aren't columnists & for all our sake they must get back to
> reporting. This story was biased and they had a purpose.
>
>
>
> > >"Koch blocked his brother's renewable efforts"
>
> > >It would be as fallacious as the headline they chose. The opposition
> > >was rich guys with vacation homes. Some are Dems & some are GOPers.
>
> > >As for the Tea Partiers & Koch, it is the same as Soros. Everyone
> > >hates the other guy's money. The media stirs it up but they really
> > >don't want it to end. BTW The New Yorker piece on the Kochs could be
> > >used in rhetoric class as could this Globe piece.
>
> > >I am consistent. These advocacy groups and PACs are poison. They
> > >should be made illegal .Let people give away to the candidates-- or
> > >amend the Constitution so Buckley v Valeo is moot- just tell me who
> > >is giving to whom.
>
> > Soros is the sleight of hand on the Right, because he's the only big
> > money
> > guy... so they
> > can say, *see, the Dems have them too.*
>
> buRf, but that is the problem. His money is just as corrupting. Yes,
> the GOP has access to more people with money but with hard $ limits to
> the candidate and PACs it is limiting. If you know any successful
> plaintiffs lawyer Google his name & see how much he gave in the last
> cycle. It can't be about the other guy's money. Just the money.
>
> > On the right, you have 10s of billionaires doing the funding.
> > It's just like with Citizens United... *the Unions can give money now
> > too,* as if the
> > shrinking unions can possible compete with multi-national corporations.
> > And everyone
> > knows where union money comes from... its members. Not so with the
> > corporations, 527s,
> > etc.
>
> Except union members don't have a choice. Here is my big worry as
> conservative and not as GOPer.
>
> If you read their writings many of the founding fathers who were
> largely a bunch of rich Wasps feared the raiding of the Treasury by
> the masses. As a HS & college student it struck me as elitist.
> Unfortunately under every Congress since Watergate they hand out
> money we have to print but I digress.
>
> I agree, unions are dying in the trade & manufacturing sectors, but
> they are growing at all levels of govt and health care-- a big part of
> health care reform. So now we have candidates beholden to our
> employees. That was the case for years with teachers and now it is
> spreading to all govt workers. Look at IL & CA. The pols can't even
> begin to touch their problems for fear of getting tossed out.
>
> > But, I agree with you... all these organizations/people/corporations
> > have
> > destroyed
> > everything. I actually wish the *tea party* was a real grass-roots
> > thing,
> > even if it was
> > right-wing. Always good to see the People become active. Unfortunately,
> > it's not.
>
> > >> So, more than anything, I think part of this is just a continuation
> > >> of
> > >> that storyline.
> > >> Not sure about the left-wing hypocrisy in this piece, as it brings up
> > >> the Dems who were
> > >> being paid off, and mentioned Kennedy as an opponent. Or maybe I
> > >> missed
> > >> your point...
> > >> where you're seeing the hypocrisy?
>
> > >The headline certainly tried to link that he gave money to the GOP &
> > >his opposition to the Wind Farm. The Kennedy's are buried deep in the
> > >article. It was certainly an attempt to link the GOP as anti-wind.
> > >This wasn't left vs. right but rich vs.the right thing.
>
> > >I only used the word hypocrisy to the Dems who were fought the farm.
> > >They are green unless the own a beach house.
>
> > I'd say it was these Dems. As I always say, the Dems are all over the
> > place.
> > Left-wing, center, right-wing, although after the election, I imagine a
> > bunch of
> > right-wing Dems will be booted out. Which will, of course, make the
> > divide
> > between
> > parties larger.
> > We be f*cked ;)
>
> I hope not.
>
> __________________________________________________________________________________________
>
> John, What are the problems with the healthcare bill besides the ones
> created in an attempt to placate the Republicans before they even
> negotiated? I'm serious, I would like you opinion.

There are few very bad parts of the plan. To do it justice I want to
answer with some thought.

You will be surprised not all my bitching is about the "liberal"side
of the bill. The process was flawed but Democrats had to have
something. I am not be posting again for a few days.

If Boehner gets in the GOP & the Dem voters should hold his feet to
the fire on changing the House process.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

John, This is the exact same response every single conservative and Tea
Party candidate gives...."I need to think about it, and I'll get back to
you." Seems to me if this thing were so horrendous, and absolutely needed
to be repealed and was the focal point of almost an entire election process
you guys would have a whole list of things ready to spout off. Bottom line,
is it better than what was in place prior? The answer is YES.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 5:47 pm
From: buRford


On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 18:23:48 -0400, "papa.carl44" <papadotcarl@nospamverizon.net> wrote:

>
>"John C TX" <johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:ceb6d9e1-1f2e-47f6-b9f0-0ca6fffce653@c20g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
>On Oct 28, 11:45 am, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
>wrote:
>> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:87eb159b-4959-46ef-8cf1-467e31626cbc@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>> On Oct 27, 2:13 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 11:07:10 -0700 (PDT), John C TX
>> > <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > >buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>> > >> On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 07:15:00 -0700 (PDT), John C TX
>> > >> <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > >> >X-No-Archive: Yes
>>
>> > >> >I realize that many of you are not remotely conservative and see an
>> > >> >agenda when they watch Fox. Now look at this article in the Boston
>> > >> >Globe and you will see that fallacies are not restricted to one side
>> > >> >of the other. It also a good example of why this country is so
>> > >> >polarized.
>>
>> > >> >I have followed this wind farm relatively closely. I am not in
>> > >> >energy
>> > >> >and I live far away but I found this issue intriguing. When I was
>> > >> >vacationing up there regularly it seemed odd that a state that
>> > >> >proclaims itself as progressive would be against something that is
>> > >> >green. The wind farm falls neatly into the grid --a big issue for
>> > >> >wind generation, would provide jobs, and is renewable. As I looked
>> > >> >the
>> > >> >wind farm had state wide support but was being fought by the elite
>> > >> >on
>> > >> >Cape Cod.
>>
>> > >> >The argument made by those against it would start off about killing
>> > >> >birds, destroying views, hurting fish (give me a break) , blah,
>> > >> >blah,
>> > >> >blah. Then you have some, many who would generally vote GOP, saying
>> > >> >how the govt shouldn't subsidize renewables and how lefties in the
>> > >> >Cape who fought it didn't see their obvious hypocrisy is beyond me.
>>
>> > >> >Anyway Koch mentioned in the article is a conservative but is not
>> > >> >why
>> > >> >he is against this wind farm. He is against it for the same reason
>> > >> >Kennedy was against it. He is rich & he doesn't want a 1/2" blip on
>> > >> >his horizon on clear days. He is rich and he is not used to be told
>> > >> >no. His brother's (also very conservative /Libertarian) have
>> > >> >renewable
>> > >> >groups in their company-- biggest private company in the world. He
>> > >> >hates them why didn't they make that link? That he was against it to
>> > >> >hurt the brothers he sued.
>>
>> > >> >The Globe took an issue that had support across the country from
>> > >> >both
>> > >> >sides of the aisle and now after it is approved they are trying to
>> > >> >turn it into a GOP bogeyman. No wonder people can't talk. This is
>> > >> >bad journalism & poisons public discourse.
>>
>> > >> >If you get bored.
>>
>> > >> >Wind farm foe gave $100,000 to aid GOP
>>
>> > >> >By Michael Rezendes, Globe Staff | October 26, 2010
>>
>> > >> >A month ago, as the battle over a proposed wind farm in Nantucket
>> > >> >Sound was being heard by state regulators, William I. Koch, the
>> > >> >fossil
>> > >> >fuel magnate and Cape Cod summer resident, donated $100,000 to the
>> > >> >Republican Governors Association.
>>
>> > >> >Koch, a longtime opponent of Cape Wind and cochairman of the
>> > >> >Alliance
>> > >> >to Protect Nantucket Sound, made the donation in part to support
>> > >> >Republican Charles D. Baker, another Cape Wind opponent, in the race
>> > >> >for governor.
>>
>> > >> >"It's no secret we oppose Cape Wind,'' said Brad Goldstein, a
>> > >> >spokesman for Koch at the Oxbow Group, the $4 billion fossil fuel
>> > >> >conglomerate that Koch runs from his Florida home.
>>
>> > >> >Baker has called the proposal a "sweetheart deal'' among state
>> > >> >officials, Cape Wind, and electricity provider National Grid. He has
>> > >> >been aided in his campaign by more than $5 million in spending by
>> > >> >the
>> > >> >governors association.
>>
>> > >> >Cape Wind, for its part, has financially supported Governor Deval
>> > >> >Patrick, a Democrat and avid supporter of the proposal. Two
>> > >> >officials
>> > >> >have made numerous direct contributions to the governor and his
>> > >> >running mate, Lieutenant Governor Timothy P. Murray. They have not,
>> > >> >however, made any recent contributions to the Democratic Governors
>> > >> >Association, which has provided more than $3 million for ads
>> > >> >produced
>> > >> >by an outside group supporting Patrick.
>>
>> > >> >Cape Wind president James S. Gordon has given a total of $2,500 to
>> > >> >Patrick since 2005 and another $1,000 to Murray, according to
>> > >> >campaign
>> > >> >finance records. He has also given $10,500 to the Democratic State
>> > >> >Committee, which is helping Patrick in his run for governor.
>>
>> > >> >In addition, Mitchell H. Jacobs, Gordon's partner at Energy
>> > >> >Management
>> > >> >Inc., Cape Wind's developer, has given $1,500 to Patrick, $1,000 to
>> > >> >Murray, and another $2,000 to the Democratic State Committee. He
>> > >> >also
>> > >> >donated $250 to Baker this year.
>>
>> > >> >Still, Mark Rodgers, a spokesman for Cape Wind, said Koch's
>> > >> >six-figure
>> > >> >donation to the Republican Governors Association is evidence that
>> > >> >his
>> > >> >financial interest in fossil fuels is driving his fight against the
>> > >> >wind energy proposal. "The public has a right to know that oil and
>> > >> >coal money has been fueling the opposition's misinformation campaign
>> > >> >against an offshore wind farm,'' Rodgers said.
>>
>> > >> >But Goldstein said Koch's opposition has nothing to do with his
>> > >> >business interests. Instead, he said, it is based on Koch's status
>> > >> >as
>> > >> >a summer homeowner in Osterville, his passion for sailing — Koch won
>> > >> >the 1992 America's Cup race — and his belief that the proposal is
>> > >> >bad
>> > >> >for ratepayers.
>>
>> > >> >"Bill thinks it's a boondoggle for Jim Gordon,'' Goldstein said. "He
>> > >> >wants to see the sound preserved, and he definitely has some
>> > >> >homeowner
>> > >> >interest.''
>>
>> > >> >In addition, Goldstein said Koch's donation to the association was
>> > >> >also meant to help Republican gubernatorial candidates across the
>> > >> >country — including incumbent Rick Perry in Texas, and Meg Whitman
>> > >> >in
>> > >> >California, where Oxbow has significant business interests. Oxbow
>> > >> >has
>> > >> >more than 300 employees working at three facilities in Texas, for
>> > >> >example. It conducts no operations in New England.
>>
>> > >> >The battle over Cape Wind, potentially the nation's first offshore
>> > >> >wind farm, has raged for much of the last decade, pitting proponents
>> > >> >of renewable energy against preservationists and some prominent Cape
>> > >> >Cod homeowners, including Koch and the late Edward M. Kennedy.
>>
>> > >> >The Department of Public Utilities held public hearings on the
>> > >> >proposal in September and is expected to reach a decision by mid-
>> > >> >November. If the agency approves the deal, which is projected to
>> > >> >raise
>> > >> >customers' monthly electricity rates by about 2 percent, opponents
>> > >> >will be able to appeal to the state's Supreme Judicial Court.
>>
>> > >> >In the meantime, both sides have pushed their respective causes in
>> > >> >the
>> > >> >political arena, making donations designed to influence the hotly
>> > >> >contested race for governor and collectively spending about $4
>> > >> >million
>> > >> >to lobby members of Congress.
>>
>> > >> >Since the early 2000s, the Alliance and Cape Wind have each spent
>> > >> >about $1.5 million dollars on their lobbying efforts. In addition,
>> > >> >Oxbow, which is privately held, paid $1 million to a lobbying firm
>> > >> >that worked against the Cape Wind proposal from 2005 to 2007, when
>> > >> >Kennedy was seeking to kill it.
>>
>> > >> >Federal records show that much of Oxbow's $1 million was spent to
>> > >> >directly influence the outcome of the wind farm debate. But they
>> > >> >also
>> > >> >show that the lobbying firm, US Strategies, worked on other issues,
>> > >> >such as tax credits and other matters that Goldstein said might have
>> > >> >included Oxbow's international shipping interests.
>>
>> > >> >Oxbow is a collection of more than two dozen companies with 15
>> > >> >locations across the United States and two dozen more spread out
>> > >> >over
>> > >> >five continents, according to Oxbow's website. Its primary
>> > >> >businesses
>> > >> >are mining and the sale of coal, natural gas, and petroleum. It is
>> > >> >also the world's largest distributor of petroleum coke, a solid fuel
>> > >> >that is a byproduct of the oil refining process.
>>
>> > >> >Oxbow is unrelated to Koch Industries, the Wichita-based energy
>> > >> >conglomerate owned by Koch's two brothers, Charles and David, both
>> > >> >of
>> > >> >whom are prodigious funders of libertarian causes. Oxbow's William
>> > >> >Koch waged a bitter legal battle against his brothers during the
>> > >> >1980s
>> > >> >and 1990s, contending he was cheated when he sold his stake in their
>> > >> >company.
>>
>> > >> >The Cape Wind proposal — which calls for 130 turbines, each 440 feet
>> > >> >high, to be built over 24 square miles in Nantucket Sound — has also
>> > >> >become an issue in the race between Attorney General Martha Coakley,
>> > >> >a
>> > >> >Democrat, and her Republican challenger, James P. McKenna.
>>
>> > >> >In August, Coakley garnered headlines when she urged the Department
>> > >> >of
>> > >> >Public Utilities to approve an agreement between Cape Wind and
>> > >> >National Grid, after she negotiated a 10 percent reduction in the
>> > >> >price of power from the turbines.
>>
>> > >> >McKenna, for his part, has urged the agency to reject the deal,
>> > >> >saying
>> > >> >it will be too costly for ratepayers. He has criticized Coakley for
>> > >> >accepting $4,800 in campaign contributions from Cape Wind's Gordon
>> > >> >during her unsuccessful campaign to fill Kennedy's US Senate seat.
>>
>> > >> >"Jim Gordon stands to personally profit greatly from Coakley's
>> > >> >continued political power,'' McKenna said in a statement.
>>
>> > >> >But campaign records show that Gordon hedged his bets, giving
>> > >> >$4,800,
>> > >> >the combined legal maximum in the primary and general elections, to
>> > >> >both Coakley and US Representative Michael E. Capuano, another
>> > >> >candidate in the Democratic primary.
>>
>> > >> >Jacobs, Gordon's business partner, gave $1,000 to Coakley.
>>
>> > >> >Brian C. Mooney off the Globe staff contributed to this report.
>> > >> >Michael Rezendes can be reached at rezen...@globe.com.
>> > >> >© Copyright 2010 The New York Times Company
>>
>> > >> My problem with FoxNews, is that they call themselves a news
>> > >> organization,
>> > >> which they're not. They're basically the Media/Propaganda arm of the
>> > >> GOP.
>> > >> If they just presented stories with a right-wing slant, that would be
>> > >> cool... but they too
>> > >> often spew outright, proven lies, to rile their base. Just for one
>> > >> story, the Black
>> > >> Panther intimidation crap, which never happened.
>>
>> > >CNN, Fox MSNBC have found opinions & commentaries rate higher than
>> > >news. People would rather throw their shoe in anger at the TV. The
>> > >left shoe & the right rather than hear details & both sides of an
>> > >issue.
>>
>> > CNN changes it's lean as the wind blows. At the moment they're leaning
>> > to
>> > the right.
>> > MSNBC during the day, doesn't have much of a lean left... it's at night
>> > when it goes
>> > progressive. And I imagine that will be short-lived, with Comcast buying
>> > NBC (all their
>> > top execs are ex-Fox execs).
>>
>> > >Fox filled a void because many on the right tired of what they
>> > >perceived as a bias from the left. The result is that both "sides"
>> > >are now even more biased. Josef Goebbels would be proud.
>>
>> > To me, there's a distinction. Look at the commentators on Fox, many of
>> > them are actual
>> > candidates (Palin, Huckabee, etc), you don't see that anywhere else. And
>> > Murdoch openly
>> > contributes to the GOP.
>>
>> You can find them on CNN & MSNBC but that is fair comment if Fox is
>> doing it more frequently. I will have to look --s*** now I have to
>> watch it. :)
>>
>> > I think Goebbels would be proud... but that too, I see a distinction. If
>> > you follow the
>> > broad news in the US Media, they tend to follow the GOP talking points.
>> > And because the
>> > GOP drums the *left-wing* media point, they tend to try to show their
>> > *balance,* by going
>> > harder after Dems.
>> > Watch all Sunday talk shows, and the questions are always through a GOP
>> > prism. The GOP is
>> > great at drumming their propaganda, over & over & over... and the Media
>> > follows. The Dems
>> > tend to be all over the place, and haven't a clue how to get out their
>> > message. Hence,
>> > more people now believe Obama a Muslim, etc. And for instance, in
>> > polling,
>> > a majority is
>> > against the healthcare legislation, but if you ask them individually,
>> > about what it
>> > contains, they like it.
>>
>> There are huge problems with that bill. Let me ask the questions.
>>
>> :)
>>
>> > But of course, we'll disagree on this ;)
>>
>> We do.
>>
>> I think they have a tendency to play to those "out of power" except on
>> certain issues. They swing too far in that they take a Pollyanna view
>> of the world all the way to a doom and gloom. There is a reason why
>> textbook journalism, not that it was always followed, tried to to
>> train reporters
>>
>>
>>
>> > >> As for this story, the Koch brothers have recently gotten a lot of
>> > >> attention (finally),
>> > >> because of their funding/founding of the *tea party...* and other
>> > >> political/media stuff.
>>
>> > >The Koch brothers aren't linked to this Koch. My point is the headline
>> > >and the early theme GOP is anti-wind. Why not this as a headline"
>>
>> > Headlines tend to be all over the place, just to get people to start
>> > reading a story.
>> > I hate it. I'll see a headline, start reading, and the point of the
>> > article is something
>> > else. If they cover all sides, I tend to ignore the headline spin...
>> > it's
>> > like any
>> > advertisement... BS ;)
>>
>> buRf, it isn't just the headline and why are they sensational inside
>> the paper? There are idiots who just read the headline then of those
>> who get into the article how many make it past the 1st 3 paragraphs?
>> They aren't columnists & for all our sake they must get back to
>> reporting. This story was biased and they had a purpose.
>>
>>
>>
>> > >"Koch blocked his brother's renewable efforts"
>>
>> > >It would be as fallacious as the headline they chose. The opposition
>> > >was rich guys with vacation homes. Some are Dems & some are GOPers.
>>
>> > >As for the Tea Partiers & Koch, it is the same as Soros. Everyone
>> > >hates the other guy's money. The media stirs it up but they really
>> > >don't want it to end. BTW The New Yorker piece on the Kochs could be
>> > >used in rhetoric class as could this Globe piece.
>>
>> > >I am consistent. These advocacy groups and PACs are poison. They
>> > >should be made illegal .Let people give away to the candidates-- or
>> > >amend the Constitution so Buckley v Valeo is moot- just tell me who
>> > >is giving to whom.
>>
>> > Soros is the sleight of hand on the Right, because he's the only big
>> > money
>> > guy... so they
>> > can say, *see, the Dems have them too.*
>>
>> buRf, but that is the problem. His money is just as corrupting. Yes,
>> the GOP has access to more people with money but with hard $ limits to
>> the candidate and PACs it is limiting. If you know any successful
>> plaintiffs lawyer Google his name & see how much he gave in the last
>> cycle. It can't be about the other guy's money. Just the money.
>>
>> > On the right, you have 10s of billionaires doing the funding.
>> > It's just like with Citizens United... *the Unions can give money now
>> > too,* as if the
>> > shrinking unions can possible compete with multi-national corporations.
>> > And everyone
>> > knows where union money comes from... its members. Not so with the
>> > corporations, 527s,
>> > etc.
>>
>> Except union members don't have a choice. Here is my big worry as
>> conservative and not as GOPer.
>>
>> If you read their writings many of the founding fathers who were
>> largely a bunch of rich Wasps feared the raiding of the Treasury by
>> the masses. As a HS & college student it struck me as elitist.
>> Unfortunately under every Congress since Watergate they hand out
>> money we have to print but I digress.
>>
>> I agree, unions are dying in the trade & manufacturing sectors, but
>> they are growing at all levels of govt and health care-- a big part of
>> health care reform. So now we have candidates beholden to our
>> employees. That was the case for years with teachers and now it is
>> spreading to all govt workers. Look at IL & CA. The pols can't even
>> begin to touch their problems for fear of getting tossed out.
>>
>> > But, I agree with you... all these organizations/people/corporations
>> > have
>> > destroyed
>> > everything. I actually wish the *tea party* was a real grass-roots
>> > thing,
>> > even if it was
>> > right-wing. Always good to see the People become active. Unfortunately,
>> > it's not.
>>
>> > >> So, more than anything, I think part of this is just a continuation
>> > >> of
>> > >> that storyline.
>> > >> Not sure about the left-wing hypocrisy in this piece, as it brings up
>> > >> the Dems who were
>> > >> being paid off, and mentioned Kennedy as an opponent. Or maybe I
>> > >> missed
>> > >> your point...
>> > >> where you're seeing the hypocrisy?
>>
>> > >The headline certainly tried to link that he gave money to the GOP &
>> > >his opposition to the Wind Farm. The Kennedy's are buried deep in the
>> > >article. It was certainly an attempt to link the GOP as anti-wind.
>> > >This wasn't left vs. right but rich vs.the right thing.
>>
>> > >I only used the word hypocrisy to the Dems who were fought the farm.
>> > >They are green unless the own a beach house.
>>
>> > I'd say it was these Dems. As I always say, the Dems are all over the
>> > place.
>> > Left-wing, center, right-wing, although after the election, I imagine a
>> > bunch of
>> > right-wing Dems will be booted out. Which will, of course, make the
>> > divide
>> > between
>> > parties larger.
>> > We be f*cked ;)
>>
>> I hope not.
>>
>> __________________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> John, What are the problems with the healthcare bill besides the ones
>> created in an attempt to placate the Republicans before they even
>> negotiated? I'm serious, I would like you opinion.
>
>There are few very bad parts of the plan. To do it justice I want to
>answer with some thought.
>
>You will be surprised not all my bitching is about the "liberal"side
>of the bill. The process was flawed but Democrats had to have
>something. I am not be posting again for a few days.
>
>If Boehner gets in the GOP & the Dem voters should hold his feet to
>the fire on changing the House process.
>______________________________________________________________________________________________________
>
>John, This is the exact same response every single conservative and Tea
>Party candidate gives...."I need to think about it, and I'll get back to
>you." Seems to me if this thing were so horrendous, and absolutely needed
>to be repealed and was the focal point of almost an entire election process
>you guys would have a whole list of things ready to spout off. Bottom line,
>is it better than what was in place prior? The answer is YES.
>


While most of it goes into effect in 2014, some of it is already in place.
A friend of mine has a relative in New Hampshire, who's now receiving cancer treatment
that she would not have been able to afford, without the healthcare bill... her premiums
would've been unmanageable. They were going to raise her premiums thousands of
dollars/month, if not for the legislation.
It aint perfect, but it will save lives, and eventually save lots of money, and
aggravation for our friends, relatives... and us.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Getting to like Woody (Johnson)...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/569381ea4fbd5de5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 2:37 pm
From: buRford


On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 08:15:38 -0700 (PDT), John C TX <johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote:

>X-No-Archive: Yes
>
>> Yeah, I always liked Woody Strode in "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence."   ;)
>
>I was thinking Woody Harrelson.


Nah, for me it's Strode, or for honorable mention, Woody Woodpecker ;)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Jets Pass Rush
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/dcda87b4e3618fce?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 3:01 pm
From: Ritchie


um............what pass rush? :)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheating Patriots! ... HISTORY LESSON TIME
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/4eae9fbce6dd76e9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 3:22 pm
From: " `·.¸¸.·´¯\)@RåvÑsfån@\(¯`·.¸¸.·´"


"Mattu" <gocism@aol.com> wrote in message
news:840c5962-f5d1-45ca-8c4d-d4ad746dd547@n26g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 25, 11:56 pm, Brian M Davis <bdavi...@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 2:45 pm, " `·.¸¸.·´¯\)@RåvÑsfån@\(¯`·.¸¸.·´"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <the.steroid.curt...@steelers.1970s.com> wrote:
> > "Gassy" hole" <Chuck_Gassy_H...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:ba5946a7-02ac-4502-890e-aa0700b9d84f@l14g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> > On Oct 21, 10:22 am, Professor <vzey7...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > This is rich coming from fans of a team with a QB who is a serial
> > > rapist.
>
> > He was accused of sexual assault, not rape. And only accused Not to
> > mention by a woman who bragged about possibly having Ben's child, and
> > a drunken DTF college girl that had gold-digger friends trying to
> > change her story for her.
>
> > PROVE IT !
>
> > This is rich, coming from a fan of a team with a head coach who is a
> > serial liar/cheater/home wrecker.
> > And he never apologized for any of that...so I guess that doesn't make
> > it all better now.
>
> > STFU you gas bag hypocrite. Young hopper bandwagoners have no clue
> > whatsoever as to the unflattering history of the stealers franchise they
> > virtually dry hump themselves to sleep with each night. The rest of you
> > just
> > feign convenient bouts with Alzheimer's to avoid and forget which isn't
> > going to happen today.
>
> > As usual I must admonish the Steelers bandwagon of bobble-heads for
> > displaying their lack of historical football knowledge respective to
> > their
> > hijacked team. In this particular episode of "I know you are but what am
> > I",
> > I observe half-bred hypocritical bandwagon huggers protesting against a
> > team
> > other than their own for doing exactly what their own team does and has
> > been
> > doing ... cheating. Be it cheap-shots, steroid usage, a favorable
> > schedule
> > until the team QB is released on parole and probation, etc. ...it's all
> > cheating.
>
> > Raiders - Steelers 1976
> > In the 1976 season-opening game with the Steelers, Raiders cornerback
> > George
> > Atkinson delivered a forearm blow to the head of wide receiver Lynnda
> > Swann
> > which resulted in a concussion. The very next day, Chuck Noll referred
> > to a
> > "criminal element" that resides within the NFL and said publicly that
> > players, such as George Atkinson, who had hit Miss Swann while running a
> > pass pattern, should be "kicked out of the league." <--- ( LOL, not
> > "fined"
> > mind you, ...kicked out! What a dishonorable piece of worm feces)
>
> > Rooney <---(more worm feces) stated that Atkinson's blow to Lynnda's
> > head
> > was "a cowardly act" <--- (LMAO!) ...and Narc Rooney proceeded to send
> > select film clips to his butt buddy, NFL commissioner Pete Rozelle. The
> > film
> > clips did actually show the Raiders committing what they stated as
> > "premeditated attacks" on Lynnda. As a result of those statements,
> > Atkinson
> > sued Chuck Noll, the RooneyToons and the Steelers franchise as a whole
> > (ass
> > a hole actually) for defamation of character. Atkinson's attorney's
> > would
> > also submit film footage proving that the Steelers played with far more
> > "premeditated criminal intent" to a degree far greater than the Raiders.
>
> > Adkinson lost his defamation lawsuit, however, he had the satisfaction
> > of
> > the presiding judge determining that in view of the Steelers footage
> > presented by the Raiders attorney, he did force Chuck Noll to state
> > publicly
> > on the record, that the Pittsburgh Steelers were just as criminal and
> > just
> > as premeditated, if not more so, than were the Oakland Raiders, in their
> > own
> > usage of cheap-shots etc., during and prior to the 1976 game and season.
>
> > I found it exquisitely telling that the NFL Commish appeared in court as
> > a
> > witness on behalf of the sPlittsburgh Rooneys.
>
> > Drew
> > `·.¸¸.·´¯)®åvÑsfån®(¯`·.¸¸.·´
>
> Sources?
>
> I didn't think so.

> Do the voices in his head count?


Sure... after all your empty head bellowing from the depths of your anus is
allowed to count doormatt, so it's only fair.

U R just one more Pittsburgh bandwagoner totally devoid of any Steelers
franchise history. Oh that's right, the steelers franchise didn't begin
until they won a championship and you know that because you got a PC. The
prior 39 years of being the league's bitch were waved when RooneyToon Sr.
was inducted into the once honorable NFL - HOF just for dropping dead. Has
to be the reason because his franchise never had a winning season until
their sudden steroid streak of 3+ in the 70's. It took 9 years after his
franchise mis-conception to finally finish above .500.

There you go steelers there you go!

Still going for #4 ...on their own merits

Drew
`·.¸¸.·´¯)®åvÑsfån®(¯`·.¸¸.·´


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 4:48 pm
From: "Brian Allen"


> Sure... after all your empty head bellowing from the depths of your anus
> is allowed to count doormatt, so it's only fair.

Wow. Can somebody please translate this?


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 5:37 pm
From: "John Peterson"

"Brian Allen" <blah@blah.com> wrote in message
news:4cca0be4$0$14805$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net...
>> Sure... after all your empty head bellowing from the depths of your anus
>> is allowed to count doormatt, so it's only fair.
>
> Wow. Can somebody please translate this?

It's Drewish, a less intelligible form of gibberish; impossible to
translate.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: AP article on jets
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/44cf4a0d6f5a7715?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 3:45 pm
From: Harlan Lachman


In article
<49ff8020-0795-4cd3-bb52-12f0c08f2126@j2g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
John C TX <johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote:

> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> It is much of the same from the Milwaukee paper. the last few
> paragraphs talking with Rodgers is interesting. I wonder if they go
> after Rodgers?
>
> The Pack have done a good job of protecting Rodgers.
>
> http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing/sort/sacks
>
> Any here is the article
>
> AP
> Jets coach Rex Ryan says Darrelle Revis (above) is the best cornerback
> in the NFL.
> Revis is key player in Jets' tough pass defense
>
> By Gary D¹Amato of the Journal Sentinel
>
> Oct. 27, 2010 |(13) Comments
>
> Green Bay ‹ No man is an island, but Darrelle Revis comes close.
>
> In fact, the New York Jets' lockdown cornerback refers to the patch of
> turf he defends each week against top National Football League
> receivers as "Revis Island" because the Jets almost never roll
> defensive help his way.
>
> Coach Rex Ryan calls Revis the best cornerback in the game and hasn't
> backed down from his assertion that Revis, and not Green Bay Packers
> cornerback Charles Woodson, should have been the 2009 NFL defensive
> player of the year.
>
> "As much as I respect Charles Woodson, I just thought the year that
> Darrelle Revis had, I'd never seen anything like it," Ryan said
> Wednesday in a conference call with reporters. "I'd only been around
> football all my life and I'd never seen anybody have that kind of
> year."
>
> Among the many things that have to go right for the injury-depleted
> Packers (4-3) to upset the Jets (5-1) on the road Sunday is that their
> receivers must win their share of one-on-one battles with Revis and
> the Jets' other outstanding cornerback, Antonio Cromartie.
>
> "They're very talented guys," said the Packers' James Jones. "They
> understand the game of football. It's going to be tough because
> they're smart. At the same time, it's man on man. You don't want to
> sit here and say they're going to get the best of you. It's going to
> come down to man on man."
>
> Ryan is a former defensive coordinator known for being loud, brash and
> cocky and his persona has rubbed off on the swaggering Jets. They play
> an aggressive, attacking defense and blitz as much as any team in the
> league. That often leaves Revis (5-foot-11, 198) and Cromartie (6-2,
> 203) in man coverage.
>
> "The Jets probably do more exotic blitzes than you're (normally) going
> to see," said Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers. "They bring different
> types of pressure and different types of coverages than you see on a
> normal basis. It's an unusual opponent."
>
> Revis, limited by a hamstring pull the last two games, is "100% and
> ready to roll," according to Ryan.
>
> "I mean, I'm playing this week," Revis said. "That's what everybody
> needs to know."
>
> He had a phenomenal year in 2009, holding New England's Randy Moss to
> nine catches for 58 yards and one touchdown in two games; Buffalo's
> Terrell Owens to 6-44-0 in two games; and Houston's Andre Johnson to
> 4-35-0 in one game.
>
> He also intercepted a career-high six passes. It was no coincidence
> that the Jets led the NFL in total defense and allowed just eight
> touchdown passes.
>
> "Anybody that watched us play knows the type of thing that we did with
> (Revis)," Ryan said. "We totally rolled coverage away from him. We put
> him in a tough situation every single down and the kid just
> responded."
>
> Asked to recall the last time the Jets gave him help in coverage,
> Revis laughed and said, "I don't know."
>
> "I think you've got to be aware of where he's at," Rodgers said. "I
> think it's going to be interesting to see the way they play us, if
> they put Darrelle on Greg (Jennings) or Antonio on Greg and Darrelle
> on somebody else.
>
> "At some point we're probably going to have to throw over at Darrelle
> and hope he doesn't make a play."
>
> Cromartie, acquired in a trade with San Diego in March, has extremely
> long arms and great speed (4.37) and often matched up with the
> opposing team's top receiver while Revis battled through his injury.
>
> "You've got a taller, lankier guy," said Jennings, who leads the
> Packers with 390 receiving yards and five touchdowns. "I've played
> against Cromartie before. He's extremely long so you've got to be a
> little careful with him getting his hands on you."
>
> Rodgers said it was possible the Jets would play more coverage than
> anticipated, as the Minnesota Vikings did Sunday.
>
> "The Jets do bring pressure," he said. "But I think if you watch our
> games this year against common opponents, Miami and Buffalo, those
> teams played a lot of two-shell and didn't bring a lot of pressure and
> had some success.
>
> "So I think they've got to look at that."
>
> Perhaps, but the Jets take pride in their identity as an attacking
> defense and are confident that when they bring pressure Revis and
> Cromartie will win their matchups. They're not going to sit back in
> Cover-2 all game.
>
> "You'll see on Sunday," Revis said. "Can't give away the game plan."
>
>
>
> Find this article at:
> http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/105928003.html

I have been asking myself why raise the Woodson issue again? This was a
dead issue. Neither player has done much this year.
Frankly, the only sane reason I can fathom is that Rex is trying to get
the Packers to target Revis so they can prove he is JAG.

Perhaps Rex thinks if the can keep them from throwing to their TE or 3rd
WR, by having them target Revis we will be better off.

I hope he be right.

h

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Unbeatable
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/b1381d331f518324?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 4:06 pm
From: " `·.¸¸.·´¯\)@RåvÑsfån@\(¯`·.¸¸.·´"


"Strickland" <iam@welfareslack.er> wrote in message
news:ia4lr302d8e@gaysteelers.newsguys.com...
>
>>
>>
>>"the refs on their side"? Give me a break. The ball was clearly fumbled,
>>but
>>unfortunately for the dullfins, a TD was called by the refs -
>>automatically
>>turning the loose ball into a "dead ball". At that point by NFL rules,
>>possession goes back to the team who originally had possession of the ball
>>at the start of the play.
>>The Steelers have gotten hosed enough in their past on ref's calls

The NFL gave your 39 year losers 3 championships so stop the bawlin' piss
bag.

>>Based upon that "no interception" call that the ratbirds got against the
>>Bills

Don't let your alchohol / drug induced hallucination be detered by the fact
that the defender (first) interfered with the ravens receiver before he
landed on top of the ravens receiver whom was on the ground under the
defender when the ravens receiver rolled him off of himself and out of the
back of the end zone.

Now stop bawlin' and take your sorry welfare cheating heroin addicted fat
ass back to PA where you belong you damn piss bag.

Drew
`·.¸¸.·´¯)®åvÑsfån®(¯`·.¸¸.·´


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 4:48 pm
From: "Brian Allen"


> Now stop bawlin'

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You've been bawlin' nonstop
for 5 years now!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fish - Steelers...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/79d09595978f395a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 4:38 pm
From: " `·.¸¸.·´¯\)@RåvÑsfån@\(¯`·.¸¸.·´"


"Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:95f06acf-4dea-4eb8-9988-05b60d10c200@u10g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
> What a surprise... Yet another convoluted call at a game critical
> moment made by the officials in favor of the Steelers. Once again,
> the "league officials" hand another undeserved win to the Steelers at
> the expense of a team that worked hard all day long. Along with that
> garbage call, I also saw the right side of the Steelers offensive line
> clearly holding Dolphins defenders on that very same drive. And...
> Get this.. If you have a fumble recovery in the end zone... ONE TEAM
> OR THE OTHER gets the recovery for the TD. If they say that Miami
> did not recover the ball, then it has to be a Steeler recovery and a
> Steeler TD. They cant just put the ball in limbo. The officals were
> not brazen enough to give the recovery in the end zoone to the
> Steelers becayse they knew the Fish guy had the ball. So, they just
> ignored the fact that it had to be either Miami ball or Steeler TD.
> And we KNOW it was not a Steeler recovery for a TD. I'm amazed that
> the Steelers ever lose any game with "help" like that.
>
> Roethlisberger wasn't the only rapist on the field today. This crap
> has to stop.The Steelers have at least two superbowl wins to thank the
> officials for and I lost count of how many individual wins.
>
> If the Jets want to beat the Steelers they better put them away early
> and stay 14 points ahead down to the clock reading 00.00

NFL replay yesterday showed a stealers OLineman with a clear block in the
back before the fumble. Also... referee at the back of end zone had a
totally unobstructed view of the play, ...saw the fumble ...and did
absolutely nothing.

I thought the league favors would stop with the gravy opening schedule the
steelers were given right just after Ben was advised of his 6 week (turned 4
week) suspension. Kyle Boller could have QB'ed the steelers the 3 early
schedule games. The Ravens were put in as the fourth team to keep it looking
legit , )

Drew
`·.¸¸.·´¯)®åvÑsfån®(¯`·.¸¸.·´


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 4:51 pm
From: " `·.¸¸.·´¯\)@RåvÑsfån@\(¯`·.¸¸.·´"


"Ray O'Hara" <raymond-ohara@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ia2dnp$5h0$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:56c3fe1c-d331-42e6-a8b0-bc77b5e6cd06@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 24, 5:54 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:95f06acf-4dea-4eb8-9988-05b60d10c200@u10g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > What a surprise...
>>
>> have you heard Rapistsberger's interview. he claims he was at the bottom
>> of
>> the pile and that he was on the ball.
>> does this fool realize there is video tape that shows he wasn't in the
>> pile
>> and he didn't recover the ball.
>>
>> and indeed if that Ref couldn't determine Miami ball they should look
>> into
>> his bank account for recent deposits.
>>
>> that being said I'm glad the Fish lost as it helps the Pats and yes the
>> Jets
>> too.
>
> ray... it helps the pats and the jets now...but.. either the jets or
> the pats will probably have to get past pittsburg in the post season
> in order to advance. the refs go into overdrive as far as bs calls in
> favor of the steelers during the post season. i have had it with
> watching teams get hozed like this... and yeah... rapistberger was
> full of shit if he said he was on top of the ball... much like his
> rape defense story
>
>
> =====================================================================
>
> The Squeelers will make the POs in that shitty division anyway so better
> to have a div rival knocked off

yeppers... the shitty AFCN had two teams that "earned" their playoff
appearances last season (stealers not one of them) and the shitty AFCN will
once more this season place two (Ravens hold the tie breaker against both
teams) .

The week one loss to the Ravens was an obviously bitter pill to digest after
bringing all that mouth instead of ass.

Drew
`·.¸¸.·´¯)®åvÑsfån®(¯`·.¸¸.·´

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rex & Thurman on Kyle Wilson... not good...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/a0c8cc1074b9a5f0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 5:39 pm
From: buRford


I've voiced my concern about Wilson, a number of times, as so far he's shown me nothing.
To me, there's a lot of instinct at CB (I used to play there), and he hasn't shown much.
I've watched a lot of his college tape that I could find, & even in college, it was more
athleticism that helped him, but he gave up a lot of receptions.
And now seeing Rex say that he's having trouble finding the ball, when passed.
All very troubling. Man, the signing of Cromartie was a genius move, with how they may've
whiffed on Wilson.
Maybe they threw too much on him, too soon, & hopefully, he'll get his shat together.
Gholston has disappeared, too... we've possibly wasted two 1st-round picks... not good.
Credit to Rex for telling it like it is, and making the tough decision...


Thursday, October 28, 2010
Wilson, No. 1 pick, disappearing from radar
By Ian Begley

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- It isn't a good sign when your top draft pick is near the bottom of
the depth chart.

But that's the predicament New York Jets cornerback Kyle Wilson finds himself eight weeks
into his first NFL season.

The Jets originally thought Wilson could start at corner opposite Antonio Cromartie and in
place of Darrelle Revis, a holdout for the first 36 days of training camp. Once Revis
ended his holdout, Jets coaches penciled in Wilson as their nickel cornerback. He
struggled in the opener against Baltimore, getting burned by Anquan Boldin and flagged for
two penalties in the Jets' 10-9 loss.

In Week 3 against Miami, Wilson was called for a crucial pass interference penalty in the
red zone that set up a Chad Henne touchdown pass. The Jets won the game, but it seemed
clear at that point that Wilson was overmatched.

That, plus big plays from Jets "closer" Dwight Lowery (interception returned for a
touchdown against Minnesota and late fumble recovery against Denver), have led to Wilson's
playing time being cut considerably.

"I love Kyle and he's a first-round pick," Rex Ryan said on Thursday. "It would look great
for the organization that he starts. (But) we've said all the time, we're in the win
business."

Ryan noted that Wilson is struggling to find the ball once it is thrown in his direction
and is having a tough time keeping up with the adjustments in the Jets' defensive schemes.

Said Wilson: "Obviously my playing time has changed. But all I can do is continue to go
out there and try to get better and make plays."

The Piscataway product started to watch film with defensive backs coach Dennis Thurman
after the Jets' win over Buffalo. Thurman has since taught Wilson how to properly study
tape. He's also helped the corner recognize what to expect from receivers based on where
they line up on the field.

"I give him credit," Thurman said. "He may have gotten down on himself, but it hasn't
affected how he's practiced or prepared."

Thurman still has confidence in Wilson, noting that many of the Jets defensive backs gain
a grasp of the team's defense in their second year. But the coach acknowledges that the
Jets' staff may have given Wilson too much responsibility in training camp.

"In our aggressiveness to put him out there, we probably put him out there a little too
soon," Thurman said. "Having to live up to being the No. 1 draft pick and playing close to
your home town; the expectations from us and probably for himself may have been a bit
high."


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 6:13 pm
From: Johnny Morongo


On Oct 28, 5:39 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:

> Wilson, No. 1 pick, disappearing from radar
> By Ian Begley

> Thurman said. "Having to live up to being the No. 1 draft pick and playing close to
> your home town; the expectations from us and probably for himself may have been a bit
> high."

Seems Mr. Thurman is given to bold understatement.


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 6:18 pm
From: Johnny Morongo


On Oct 28, 5:39 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:

> I've voiced my concern about Wilson, a number of times, as so far he's shown me nothing.
> To me, there's a lot of instinct at CB (I used to play there)...

When did the Bronx host a league for midgets?


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 6:20 pm
From: Johnny Morongo


On Oct 28, 6:18 pm, Johnny Morongo
<j.mireh...@harmonicconcordance.com> wrote:
> On Oct 28, 5:39 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>
> > I've voiced my concern about Wilson, a number of times, as so far he's shown me nothing.
> > To me, there's a lot of instinct at CB (I used to play there)...
>
> When did the Bronx host a league for midgets?

Sorry, should say "little people."

Either way, I grin.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Click And Get Instant $1000 Coupon To Your Paypal.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/821c5c8a3ad4c3f0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 28 2010 6:02 pm
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TOPIC: her husband is far away she need a date
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/faaa31b113ace402?hl=en
==============================================================================

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TOPIC: UGG 5879 BOOT
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/1d7fb36d67435f27?hl=en
==============================================================================

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