Monday, December 13, 2010

Re: [#726073928] Google Checkout Claim

Buzz It
Hello Vinit,

Thank you for your response.

Refunds can take up to three business days to appear on your credit card
statement. If the refund does not appear, please contact your bank for
more information.

Sincerely,

Taylor
The Google Checkout Team

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
From: VINIT BHOYE <microvinitster@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [#726073928] Google Checkout Claim
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 20:42:32 +0530

> Thanx for the refund .You have cleared most of my doubts in the email i
just
> want to ask when i can place my new order from another seller.I mean i
want
> to make sure when i place my new order I have funds in my card (
refunded
> funds) .Thats why I request you to kindly email me as soon as possible
when
> the refunding on my card is sucessfull because currently i might be
> travelling and will not be able to access my bank so if in case any
problems
> email me .thanx again
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 5:23 PM, Google Checkout <
> checkout-support@google.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Thanks for your reply. Because the seller has not resolved the issue
with
> > Google Order #705641026406588, we will issue you a refund in the
amount of
> > $361.90 to the credit card used to place the original order. The
funds
> > will automatically be returned to the credit/debit card used at the
time
> > of purchase. To see which credit card was used in this transaction and
to
> > check the status of your refund, visit
> > https://checkout.google.com/view/receipt?t=705641026406588
> >
> > Our specialists should complete your refund within the next business
> > day,/debit and refunds can take up to an additional three business
days to
> > appear on your credit card statement. If the refund does not appear,
> > please contact your bank for more information. If your card is now
closed,
> > please contact your card-issuing bank about forwarding the funds to
your
> > new account or issuing you a check for the amount of the refund.
> >
> > If our specialists are not able to complete your refund, we will
contact
> > you. If the refund is successful and the seller provides sufficient
> > evidence that your order was completed according to our Terms of
Service
> > and their published policies, you may be recharged for this order. If
you
> > don't hear from us within four weeks, please consider this refund
final.
> >
> > We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this order may have
caused
> > you.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > The Google Checkout Team
> >
> >
> > Original Message Follows:
> > ------------------------
> > From: VINIT BHOYE <microvinitster@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [#726073928] Google Checkout Claim
> > Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 11:19:42 +0530
> >
> > > Dear chekout team,
> > > Its high time now as i havnt recieved my package yet from abes of
maine
> > i
> > > request you take some step towards the issue .i have lost my faith
in
> > the
> > > seller and now i have started losing faith in google checkout also.
> > > waiting for reply
> > > thanx
> > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Google Checkout
> > <checkout-support@google.com
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Patel,
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your response. I understand the issue has not yet
been
> > > > resolved. We have shared your update with the seller so that the
> > seller
> > > > can resolve this issue to your satisfaction.
> > > >
> > > > If the seller does not resolve this issue, please reply to this
email
> > and
> > > > we'll be happy to assist you further.
> > > >
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > >
> > > > Taylor
> > > > The Google Checkout Team
> > > >
> > > > Original Message Follows:
> > > > ------------------------
> > > > From: VINIT BHOYE <microvinitster@gmail.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [#726073928] Google Checkout Claim
> > > > Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 23:33:41 +0530
> > > >
> > > > > Dear Google Checkout Team,
> > > > > My issue has not been solved yet and I did not even receive an
email
> > > > from
> > > > > the seller.My request is to cancel my order and refund my money
or
> > tell
> > > > them
> > > > > to send me my order my Fedex as soon as possible because I think
> > that
> > > > they
> > > > > did not even send anything till date .Also I had requested them
to
> > send
> > > > me
> > > > > my goods by Fedex from the day I purchased but they didn't
listen
> > and
> > > > also
> > > > > their shipping charges are excessive comparing to the service
they
> > used
> > > > > (USPS) due to which i feel like i was fooled.If they want to
send me
> > my
> > > > > order they should give me fresh fedex shipping tracking code as
soon
> > as
> > > > > possible otherwise I seek for cancellation and refund.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Google Checkout
> > > > <checkout-support@google.com
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Patel,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you for your response. I understand the issue has not
yet
> > been
> > > > > > resolved. We have shared your update with the seller so that
the
> > > > seller
> > > > > > can resolve this issue to your satisfaction.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the seller does not resolve this issue, please reply to
this
> > email
> > > > and
> > > > > > we'll be happy to assist you further.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Taylor
> > > > > > The Google Checkout Team
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Original Message Follows:
> > > > > > ------------------------
> > > > > > From: VINIT BHOYE <microvinitster@gmail.com>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [#726073928] Google Checkout Claim
> > > > > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 20:50:03 +0530
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Copy of latest email sent to Abes of Maine*
> > > > > > > **
> > > > > > > *i havnt recived my order yet and even no communication from
> > seller
> > > > end
> > > > > > I am
> > > > > > > now planning to file a cancellation claim to google for my
> > purchase*
> > > > > > > ** ** ** ** ** *[image: Search Results]* ** ** ** **
> > > > Label/Receipt
> > > > > > > Number: CJ21 1481 207U S
> > > > > > > Class: Priority Mail International Parcels
> > > > > > > Service(s): International Parcels
> > > > > > > Status: International Dispatch
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your item left the United States from FOREIGN CENTERJERSEY
CITY
> > NJ
> > > > 099
> > > > > > at
> > > > > > > 10:38 am on November 20, 2010. Information, if available, is
> > updated
> > > > > > > periodically throughout the day. Please check again later.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [image: Track and Confirm] Enter
Label/Receipt
> > > > Number.
> > > > > > > Enter Label / Receipt Number.
> > > > > > > Detailed Results:
> > > > > > > [image: Bullet] International Dispatch, November 20,
2010,
> > 10:38
> > > > am,
> > > > > > > FOREIGN CENTERJERSEY CITY NJ 099 [image: Bullet] Arrival
[image:
> > > > > > > Bullet] Electronic
> > > > > > > Shipping Info Received, November 20, 2010
> > > > > > > *You can check it yourself this is the status from day one I
> > tried
> > > > to
> > > > > > call
> > > > > > > but nobody seems to be resposible to answer the call*
> > > > > > > *Let me know as soon as possible about what is going on with
my
> > > > order
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > shipping and all this confusion.I actually wanted to order
some
> > more
> > > > > > stuff
> > > > > > > but all these confusion and delays are holding me back now I
am
> > sure
> > > > > > that I
> > > > > > > will never place any order with you*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Google Checkout
> > > > > > <checkout-support@google.com
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello Patel,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you for your patience. After contacting the seller,
we
> > > > received
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > following order update:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 'Order has been shipped via track carrier USPS with track
#
> > > > > > CJ211481207US'
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you have any further questions, please reply to this
email.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Taylor
> > > > > > > > The Google Checkout Team
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Original Message Follows:
> > > > > > > > ------------------------
> > > > > > > > From: ron@abesofmaine.com
> > > > > > > > Subject: Google Checkout Claim
> > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 15:31:51 +0000
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > AutoDetectedBrowser: Google Chrome 7
> > > > > > > > > AutoDetectedOS: Windows 7
> > > > > > > > > IP: 65.51.130.82
> > > > > > > > > IssueType: claims
> > > > > > > > > Language: en
> > > > > > > > > auth_cl: yes_contest_cl
> > > > > > > > > claim_num: 726073928
> > > > > > > > > email_address: ron@abesofmaine.com
> > > > > > > > > merchant_id: 200951802824777
> > > > > > > > > name: Ron
> > > > > > > > > order_num: 705641026406588
> > > > > > > > > resolved_physical_good: ship_track
> > > > > > > > > track_carrier: USPS
> > > > > > > > > track_num: CJ211481207US
> > > > > > > > > txn_type: physical_good
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

Buzz It
rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Liz Hatch's toy career - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/dbe1a6f17d342a69?hl=en
* I can make any thread a doping thread - 6 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/25ba0ff2691dd4d3?hl=en
* Pegasus: Aussie's Noble House - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/b3870cd91df85d95?hl=en
* Pegasus is Back - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/6b0feb86281f2e31?hl=en
* She stretches the truth more than gravity stretches her tits ( of course it'
s a Liz Hatch post) - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bb4f18b7b1858a48?hl=en
* Alexi Grewal: worst teammate ever - 6 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/cab4be86af73cf15?hl=en
* The King is born.... He that is He. - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5f82ab87c2752469?hl=en
* free shipping paypal payment wholesale CLOTHING jacket T-shirt long sleeve
suit and hoody(Franklin Marshall,Monclereiderdown,nike,adidas,a&f,d&g,ed
harday,bape,bbc,lv,gucci,armani,polo, poul smith and so on)/http://www.24hour-
buy.com/ - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/01dfe69dd3a1e3a4?hl=en
* Paypal, Cheap Chanel,Louis Vuitton Handbags,Purse - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0406991242e57632?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Liz Hatch's toy career
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/dbe1a6f17d342a69?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 12 2010 10:14 pm
From: Fred


On Dec 11, 9:17 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> http://plixi.com/p/61959396
>
> What self-respecting pro rider not sucking Lance's dick on Radio Shit
> wears a "Mellow Johnny's" T-shirt at home?
>
> And like her career, Liz gets a toy dog.  Yeah, that's a great thing for
> a "pro" cyclist family to get a - a dog.  This way, every weekend you
> have to find someone to take care of the thing.  Great idea.
>
> Or you can be like that cokehead dingbat Dotsie Bausch and bring your
> Chihuahua to races with you like some Paris Hilton wannabee. No wonder
> why no teams wanted to hire her.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Magilla

I suppose it would be a problem to find someone to care for the dog,
IF you were planning on doing an entire race, or even doing a race...
For no longer than she'd be away, she could just leave it in the car
with a bowl of water on the floor.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I can make any thread a doping thread
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/25ba0ff2691dd4d3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 12:43 am
From: Zenon


On Dec 12, 7:18 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Give it a shot (shot: as in a hypo).


.
.
Are you needling me?
.
.


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 12:43 am
From: Zenon


On Dec 12, 7:18 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Give it a shot (shot: as in a hypo).


.
.
Stop being a dope.
.
.


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 12:43 am
From: Zenon


On Dec 12, 7:18 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Give it a shot (shot: as in a hypo).

.
.
Does your car have fuel injection?
.
.


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 12:44 am
From: Zenon


On Dec 12, 7:18 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Give it a shot (shot: as in a hypo).


.
.
Lance "Doper" Armstrong. What a fucking dick! He transfused and will
probably get away with it because now he's a fucking myth and curing
everyone of cancer.


== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 10:53 am
From: Frederick the Great


In article
<1abc17f2-fee2-4623-b4a2-5f695156a6f7@c13g2000prc.googlegroups.com>,
Zenon <zenon_jaskula@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Dec 12, 7:18 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Give it a shot (shot: as in a hypo).
>
>
> .
> .
> Lance "Doper" Armstrong. What a fucking dick! He transfused and will
> probably get away with it because now he's a fucking myth and curing
> everyone of cancer.

LANCE! will cure you, if only you believe.

--
Old Fritz


== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 9:33 pm
From: drmofe


On Dec 13, 4:18 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Give it a shot (shot: as in a hypo).

"Yet who would have thought the old man to have had so much blood in
him?" -- Lady Macbeth

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pegasus: Aussie's Noble House
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/b3870cd91df85d95?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 12:51 am
From: Zenon


On Dec 12, 10:02 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> MagillaGorilla wrote:
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pegasus-sports-riders-looking-for-oth...
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Magilla
>
> This is karma for Phil Zajicek.  He's the doper that USADA prosecuted by got off
> because USADA didn't have subpoena power to get his harddrives and UPS/mail
> records....whereas in the O'Bee case USADA got that information because O'Bee's
> ex-girlfriend turned over her computer to USADA (a computer that O'Bee also
> used), and they were able to hire a computer forensic expert to prove their
> case.
>
> It is interesting to know that O'Bee essentially used the same defense that
> Chuck Fucking Coyle used....that he didn't order it, that he never received such
> a package, etc.  But USADA proved he did order it, and the dope was delivered to
> his address.
>
> Coyle and Zajicek.are only allowed to claim plausible deniability because USADA
> couldn't get their harddrives.
>
> Bastards,
>
> Magilla

.
.
Not to mention they had photographic evidence!
.
.


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 1:02 am
From: Zenon


On Dec 12, 10:02 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> MagillaGorilla wrote:
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pegasus-sports-riders-looking-for-oth...
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Magilla
>
> This is karma for Phil Zajicek.  He's the doper that USADA prosecuted by got off
> because USADA didn't have subpoena power to get his harddrives and UPS/mail
> records....whereas in the O'Bee case USADA got that information because O'Bee's
> ex-girlfriend turned over her computer to USADA (a computer that O'Bee also
> used), and they were able to hire a computer forensic expert to prove their
> case.
>
> It is interesting to know that O'Bee essentially used the same defense that
> Chuck Fucking Coyle used....that he didn't order it, that he never received such
> a package, etc.  But USADA proved he did order it, and the dope was delivered to
> his address.
>
> Coyle and Zajicek.are only allowed to claim plausible deniability because USADA
> couldn't get their harddrives.
>
> Bastards,
>
> Magilla

.
.
Here's the reference to genius O'Bee photographed holding EPO
.
.

"The panel concluded that the athlete's denials were not credible in
light of circumstantial evidence of his use of rhEPO, including photos
of him holding vials of rhEPO and his signature on a UPS receipt for
rhEPO."
.
.
Source: http://velonews.competitor.com/files/2010/10/obee.pdf
.
.
Book him Dano!
.
.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pegasus is Back
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/6b0feb86281f2e31?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 1:27 am
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd


On Dec 12, 10:46 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> ...as a fucking redneck squadra:
>
> http://www.teampegasuscycling.com
>

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5127/5230571086_11dd715218.jpg

SHARE THE ROAD.

Fredmaster Ben


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 6:38 pm
From: Fred Fredburger


On 12/13/2010 1:27 AM, Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
> On Dec 12, 10:46 pm, MagillaGorilla<magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>> ...as a fucking redneck squadra:
>>
>> http://www.teampegasuscycling.com
>>
>
> http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5127/5230571086_11dd715218.jpg
>
> SHARE THE ROAD.

That's a hell of a way to win races.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 7:59 pm
From: Fred


On Dec 12, 10:46 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> ...as a fucking redneck squadra:
>
> http://www.teampegasuscycling.com
>
> Cheers,
>
> Magilla

Cuts way down the number of times drivers harass you...

Fred

==============================================================================
TOPIC: She stretches the truth more than gravity stretches her tits ( of
course it's a Liz Hatch post)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bb4f18b7b1858a48?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 4:16 am
From: "Beloved Fred No. 1"


Anton Berlin wrote:
> He's sore because I know who he is and even more so because I know who
> is father is.

Do you know his mom too ?


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 5:30 am
From: Anton Berlin


On Dec 13, 6:16 am, "Beloved Fred No. 1" <n...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> Anton Berlin wrote:
> > He's sore because I know who he is and even more so because I know who
> > is father is.
>
> Do you know his mom too ?

Nah - but it appears he has the same complex as Lance - older woman
that looks like mommy.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 9:52 pm
From: Fred Fredburger


On 12/12/2010 7:24 PM, Anton Berlin wrote:
> He's sore because I know who he is and even more so because I know who
> is father is.

I've got to admit that I mostly don't care who anybody in here is. It's
kind of cool that Carl is Carl and that you're Ron Jeremy, but it's no
big deal.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Alexi Grewal: worst teammate ever
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/cab4be86af73cf15?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 7:02 am
From: Amit Ghosh


On Dec 13, 12:56 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:

> Grewal and Decanio likely exceeded their potential because of their manic
> hyper-emotions.  Their overall underachievement long-term was probably due
> to typical genetic shortcomings vis-a-vis not having what the GT guys have
> (with or without dope).

on their best days they were good enough to be euro pro (if not GT
winners) but they didn't succeed in that arena. hyper emotions can't
make up for not having the underlying ability.

> Guys like Tom Danielson, Pantani, and F. Vandenbroucke are more like the
> headcases you described.  

i wouldn't put danielson in the same boat. all those other guys had
depressive phases where they walked out on their teams or pulled
disappearing acts and stopped training for long stretches.

if a guy is still training and showing up to races, he isn't in that
depressive state. danielson is more of a typical superstitious
hypochondriac.


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 7:30 am
From: Fred Flintstein


On 12/13/2010 9:02 AM, Amit Ghosh wrote:
> On Dec 13, 12:56 am, MagillaGorilla<magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Grewal and Decanio likely exceeded their potential because of their manic
>> hyper-emotions. Their overall underachievement long-term was probably due
>> to typical genetic shortcomings vis-a-vis not having what the GT guys have
>> (with or without dope).
>
> on their best days they were good enough to be euro pro (if not GT
> winners) but they didn't succeed in that arena. hyper emotions can't
> make up for not having the underlying ability.
>
>> Guys like Tom Danielson, Pantani, and F. Vandenbroucke are more like the
>> headcases you described.
>
> i wouldn't put danielson in the same boat. all those other guys had
> depressive phases where they walked out on their teams or pulled
> disappearing acts and stopped training for long stretches.
>
> if a guy is still training and showing up to races, he isn't in that
> depressive state. danielson is more of a typical superstitious
> hypochondriac.

Dumbasses,

For an awful lot of riders a top ten in a grand tour represents their
top end, and especially if they aren't exceptional bike handlers.

He's never shown any indication that he's capable of more.

Fred Flintstein


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 7:49 am
From: Amit Ghosh


On Dec 13, 10:30 am, Fred Flintstein
<bob.schwa...@sbcremoveglobal.net> wrote:

> Dumbasses,
>
> For an awful lot of riders a top ten in a grand tour represents their
> top end, and especially if they aren't exceptional bike handlers.
>
> He's never shown any indication that he's capable of more.
>

I agree.

Same goes for Ekimov or Danny Pate or Popovych or any number of riders
who were very good at the u-23/amateur level but supposedly didn't
live up to expectations at the top level.

But Danielson has added comic elements: strange stomach ailments,
racetime jitters and eskimo blood.


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 3:13 pm
From: "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."


On Dec 13, 7:49 am, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 13, 10:30 am, Fred Flintstein
>
> <bob.schwa...@sbcremoveglobal.net> wrote:
> > Dumbasses,
>
> > For an awful lot of riders a top ten in a grand tour represents their
> > top end, and especially if they aren't exceptional bike handlers.
>
> > He's never shown any indication that he's capable of more.
>
> I agree.
>
> Same goes for Ekimov or Danny Pate or Popovych or any number of riders
> who were very good at the u-23/amateur level but supposedly didn't
> live up to expectations at the top level.
>
> But Danielson has added comic elements: strange stomach ailments,
> racetime jitters and eskimo blood.

Dumbass -

And no bike handling skills.

That's not to be discounted. Someone who isn't relaxed riding in the
bunch expends more nervous energy. I had a friend who was a bit of a
whack job and he was very strong aerobically but he'd freak out and
get very nervous before races. His HR would be at AT on the startline.
Dude never got any results, not even in Cat 4.

I'm sure Danielson isn't that bad, but if you can't relax, it drains
your adrenals.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.


== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 4:03 pm
From: Anton Berlin


Panic induced intervals.


== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 11:24 pm
From: yirgster


On Dec 10, 5:56 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Dec 9, 8:33 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 9, 5:55 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:> Sorry Ryan but this subject line makes you look like a putz.  If a guy
> > > holds support from a teammate and then drops out or gets 18th then
> > > he's a selfish fucking cunt and deserves the worst.
>
> > > But if a guy does these things believing he can win and then does it -
> > > that makes him a god.
>
> > > Because anyone that's got to that level will tell you when the race
> > > starts - it's every man for himself.
>
> > > (of course this is different in stage racing but one day races you're
> > > on your own)
>
> > On Dec 9, 5:55 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Sorry Ryan but this subject line makes you look like a putz.  If a guy
> > > holds support from a teammate and then drops out or gets 18th then
> > > he's a selfish fucking cunt and deserves the worst.
>
> > > But if a guy does these things believing he can win and then does it -
> > > that makes him a god.
>
> > > Because anyone that's got to that level will tell you when the race
> > > starts - it's every man for himself.
>
> > > (of course this is different in stage racing but one day races you're
> > > on your own)
>
> > I said "worst teammate," not "worst racer." As you note, Grewal
> > achieved cycling greatness that day.
>
> > But he took an awful risk. He relied on being able to outsprint Bauer
> > heads-up, but he got away with it. As he notes, the good-teammate plan
> > would have meant delivering Kiefel and Phinney to the finish, with
> > extremely good odds for the USA.
>
> > The meta-problem at the Olympics and Worlds is that national "teams"
> > are largely a crock, featuring minimal functional loyalties (as
> > opposed to pro teams, where the personal and financial ties are
> > usually stronger). Even club teams are more of a real team.
>
> Exactly !  How is anyone (Alexi especially) expected to have
> allegiance to guys he barely rode with?  Just because they all have
> the same super gay stars and stripes jersey on?
>
> This is the exact same problem that haunted the US 100k teams for the
> 80s and 90s.  The ten speed drive boys - working as friends that rode
> together often - typically went 4-8 minutes faster than the ad hoc
> teams the coaches threw together again and again (the definition of
> insanity)  and sent to international events.
>
> Alexi had one allegiance that day and that was to work for himself.
> Anyone that's won eventually second guesses (often much later in
> life ) as much as the guys that got second or sixteenth.
>
> Fuck Davis Phinney - if he didn't have the sense to bring enough food
> and drink or try to gain advantage be wearing a skinsuit with only 1
> pocket then he deserves the place he got.
>
> I'll venture this - in a three up sprint with Phinney, Bauer and
> Grewal - Grewal still could win because he would be smart enough to
> take advantage of those 2 marking each other and would enter the end
> zone untouched.
>
> From reading his blogs and news stories it's clear Alexi (as a human)
> is going through a stage where he's trying to rationalize his life,
> justify or pardon his past and have it all make sense.
>
> That day in 1984 he inspired 10s of thousands to ride and put in the
> miles (me included) and that vision kept me riding many times for many
> years.
>
> If you or even he wants to piss on that candy now - well OK that's
> everyone's right - but it doesn't change the fact that for years his
> ride inspired every loner, every misfit and every one that wanted to
> do something for themselves and prove to the world and lastly the
> internal doubts we all have that they have value and can do something
> incredible.
>
> I don't know him, never raced against him but Alexi Grewal is the
> greatest "teammate" ever because at 23 he got it right.
>
> The race is with ourselves.  The things we do only mark our souls. And
> no one really keeps our score but ourselves.
>
> And independent fuckers like Henry Chang, Magilla, Alexi and maybe
> Anton  make this world 100x better than a million ass grabbing glad
> handing yes-men team players.
>
> I am in the business world and I can tell you for a fact that the
> "teammates" and  "team players" are the most detestable untrustworthy
> cunts out there.
>
> So in the end - maybe your subject line isn't so bad - calling someone
> like Alexi "the worst teammate ever" is about the best damn compliment
> one can make.

Here's an example of Grewal doing the good as a teammate. From
Borysewicz' book, Bicycle Road Racing:

- Sometimes a talented rider with enough determination can block even
good riders who know exactly what he's trying to do. There was an
excellent example of this in the final stage of the 1983 Coors
Classic. Dale Stetina, in third place on general classification, got
into an early break with wore than a dozen very powerful East
Europeans and Americans...

- Stetina was in position to move into first place if he could gain
4:56 on the race leader, who had missed the echelon along with a
number of other good riders, including Stetina's teammate, Alexi
Grewal. Using the blocking tactics I've just described, Grewal worked
against the chase's progress for almost 150 km and Stetina got more
than enough time for the victory. After the race, Grewal told Velo-
news what he had to endure at the front of the chase. "I was really
getting beat up. Guys were elbowing me and hitting me all the time,
especially the Swiss pros. That made me mad and then I really started
getting into it. After a while they sort of gave in and were letting
me move in anywhere I wanted."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The King is born.... He that is He.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5f82ab87c2752469?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 2:05 pm
From: Anton Berlin


http://www.venganza.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/nativity_hq.jpg

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 6:31 pm
From: Fred Fredburger


On 12/13/2010 2:05 PM, Anton Berlin wrote:
> http://www.venganza.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/nativity_hq.jpg
>

HALLELUJAH!!!

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TOPIC: Paypal, Cheap Chanel,Louis Vuitton Handbags,Purse
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0406991242e57632?hl=en
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alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets - 26 new messages in 11 topics - digest

Buzz It
alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets?hl=en

alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Sanchez may not recover.... - 6 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/cd8625f01b7f46dc?hl=en
* Major screw-up on New York Jets web site - go listen now. - 4 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/d90df7dcf08c5e06?hl=en
* Jets ticket office wants playoff ticket money.... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/2d9cab67e259b0fa?hl=en
* Special note: Dustin Keller - 4 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/7037b757d9bd3b94?hl=en
* Alosi fined and suspended by Jets. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/888092728f673c07?hl=en
* Jets Should Lose 1st Round Draft Pick - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/f30fa662100e85a1?hl=en
* NFL To Make Taco Shaped Football To Aid Sanchez.. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/df3f66b7f9e6d1a9?hl=en
* I retract my offer... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/30b260281677b202?hl=en
* Sal Alosi - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/fc1b72e04343d962?hl=en
* Discount Wholesale Affliction Jeans Armani Jeans Christian Audigier Jeans
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hour-buy.com/ ) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/fa00c4fe0c26e6b0?hl=en
* What does this stat mean to you? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/f4d3bd0a1eb3ef1d?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sanchez may not recover....
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/cd8625f01b7f46dc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 3:52 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"Grinch" <oldnasty@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:2bfbaca6-a895-4d99-a51d-6bf7adfdfa6c@m35g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 13, 12:13 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:5d7a5505-9dd4-4f80-9eca-de3eb3a8bc18@j13g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Not just football mind you... Any walk of life... What happens when
> > you take a man/woman and put them into a job that requires them to
> > perform and compete... And... good performance in a shark tank is
> > sustained not only by skill and experience, but by skill and
> > experience combined with... SELF CONFIDENCE...
>
> > So... Say you train them... All the time... "Not to make mistakes".
> > And... You stick them in a working system that you title somthing like
> > "careful caution safety" instead of "Bombs Away Bingo !" Then you put
> > them into the shark tank... Gulp...
>
> > I'm tellin ya... This kids head may go up the spout for good unless he
> > gets proper teachers. You can see that they are training him to wet
> > the bed instead of training him to make other people worry about what
> > he is gonna do to them.
>
> I absolutely agree.

On what evidence? Everybody seeing Rex and Schott cruelly breaking
Sanchez's confidence during all those Hard Knocks episodes?

Really, can anyone name a kid QB who's been *more coddled and
supported* by his coaches than Sanchez?

The formula: "use the big running game, good D, stick to safe passes"
is a proven one for developing young QBs and reclaiming old ones from
Flacco and Ben back through Tuna-Testeverde, Shula-Griese & Morral,
Lombardi-Starr.

And those coaches didn't go on HBO every week and make sure the camera
caught them saying "the kid's coming along.... the kid's getting
better ... the kid's going to be a good one!"

Yet now all this is supposed to destroy a QB's self confidence, and
the coaches who use it are inept? Hello??

You know *some* young QBs come into this league and actually have
tough jobs -- they don't land on a team with a top D, top running game
to use, and coaches who never, ever say anything but kind words about
them.

They wind up on teams like the 1-15 Rams, 0-16 Lions, 2-14 Raiders,
3-13 Colts, and when they produce league-bottom numbers for two years
they get their butts sent to the bench by people like Al Davis,
instead of having the HC declare "No matter, he's my QB forever!",
like Rex just said after Sanchez produced his 40 passer rating
yesterday.

But Sanchez is having his self confidence destroyed because he can't
play "Bombs Away Bingo" with his 53% completion rate.

Boo hoo hoo.

> I could site other QB's that I think have had this
> happen to them...but that would only be speculation and I really didn't
> follow them that closely. What I have seen is this happen to a kid who had
> poor coaches at a critical time in their development. I saw kids transfer
> into the school I worked at who had been in bad situations....they
> recovered
> but were never what they may have been.


So this is all about flat out lousy players...either talented guys not
performing, or guys with no talent? Just explain it to me. BTW...how has
the Al Davis routine been working out of late? I don't think Sanchez is
particularly good...and I was one of those who was not in favor of drafting
him...but the fact is he IS the QB...and the coaches wanted him. This melt
down is way more than just Sanchez....are they all crappy players? I'm
serious, I want to understand this.


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 3:56 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"Grinch" <oldnasty@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:2bfbaca6-a895-4d99-a51d-6bf7adfdfa6c@m35g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 13, 12:13 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:5d7a5505-9dd4-4f80-9eca-de3eb3a8bc18@j13g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Not just football mind you... Any walk of life... What happens when
> > you take a man/woman and put them into a job that requires them to
> > perform and compete... And... good performance in a shark tank is
> > sustained not only by skill and experience, but by skill and
> > experience combined with... SELF CONFIDENCE...
>
> > So... Say you train them... All the time... "Not to make mistakes".
> > And... You stick them in a working system that you title somthing like
> > "careful caution safety" instead of "Bombs Away Bingo !" Then you put
> > them into the shark tank... Gulp...
>
> > I'm tellin ya... This kids head may go up the spout for good unless he
> > gets proper teachers. You can see that they are training him to wet
> > the bed instead of training him to make other people worry about what
> > he is gonna do to them.
>
> I absolutely agree.

On what evidence? Everybody seeing Rex and Schott cruelly breaking
Sanchez's confidence during all those Hard Knocks episodes?

Really, can anyone name a kid QB who's been *more coddled and
supported* by his coaches than Sanchez?

The formula: "use the big running game, good D, stick to safe passes"
is a proven one for developing young QBs and reclaiming old ones from
Flacco and Ben back through Tuna-Testeverde, Shula-Griese & Morral,
Lombardi-Starr.

And those coaches didn't go on HBO every week and make sure the camera
caught them saying "the kid's coming along.... the kid's getting
better ... the kid's going to be a good one!"

Yet now all this is supposed to destroy a QB's self confidence, and
the coaches who use it are inept? Hello??

You know *some* young QBs come into this league and actually have
tough jobs -- they don't land on a team with a top D, top running game
to use, and coaches who never, ever say anything but kind words about
them.

They wind up on teams like the 1-15 Rams, 0-16 Lions, 2-14 Raiders,
3-13 Colts, and when they produce league-bottom numbers for two years
they get their butts sent to the bench by people like Al Davis,
instead of having the HC declare "No matter, he's my QB forever!",
like Rex just said after Sanchez produced his 40 passer rating
yesterday.

But Sanchez is having his self confidence destroyed because he can't
play "Bombs Away Bingo" with his 53% completion rate.

Boo hoo hoo.


Grinch...we don't really disagree that much...and if we were face to face we
would probably not argue about this at all...I do not think the style Rex
uses is a good one....all the BS and talk is not good. I never thought it
was a good idea to take Sanchez, but when they do he's the one to play with,
so you need to do something that works...they got rid of the running game
that worked, including a lineman that at least got it done on sweeps
etc...the guy could pull. They got rid of the tough ground and pound RB and
they added a whole bunch of WR's.....so whose decisions are making this
mess? Are the rest of the players that bad? I don't think the D looks so
hot either.


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 5:01 pm
From: Tutor


On Dec 13, 6:25 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
wrote:
> "Grinch" <oldna...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>
> news:7c5f6b9d-93c2-4325-886f-403d550fdf76@k3g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 13, 9:39 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > Not just football mind you... Any walk of life... What happens when
> > you take a man/woman and put them into a job that requires them to
> > perform and compete... And... good performance in a shark tank is
> > sustained not only by skill and experience, but by skill and
> > experience combined with... SELF CONFIDENCE...
>
> > So... Say you train them... All the time... "Not to make mistakes".
> > And... You stick them in a working system that you title somthing like
> > "careful caution safety" instead of "Bombs Away Bingo !" Then you put
> > them into the shark tank... Gulp...
>
> Yup, if Sanchez had 30 picks at this point after being told to go play
> "Bombs Away Bingo" his morale would be so much better!  And everyone
> would be so happy with the OC. :-)
>
> As it is, he's a victim of the formula that ruined young Flacco in
> Balt and young Ben in Pitt.    And that Lombardi and Noll and Parcells
> used to ruin one team after another and break the self-confidence of
> all their sensitive young players.
>
> You guyz are just making this stuff up.
>
> Not that I doubt for a moment that Sanchez is developing a confidence
> problem.
>
> But it's from the coaching -- it's got the same cause as the
> confidence problems suffered by Harrington, Leaf, JaMarcuss, Nagle and
> Clemens:  having a 53% completion rate and thinking "Oh my God, I
> threw another one!" three times a week.
>
> > I'm tellin ya... This kids head may go up the spout for good unless he
> > gets proper teachers.
>
> The guy's got the league-bottom completion % two years running, a
> career negative TD-pick rate including 8-12 in the last eight games,
> and the big problem is *he's not throwing enough* -- he'd be playing
> Bombs Away Bingo with the proper teachers.  In a "win now" season.
>
> And that it's not happening is proof of how bad the coaches are.
>
> Go figure.
>
> >You can see that they are training him to wet
> > the bed instead of training him to make other people worry about what
> > he is gonna do to them.
>
> So...let me get this straight or at least understand your position Grinch.
> You are saying it is all the players?  They flat out stink?  I can
> understand that, if it is what you are saying.  The coaches to at least some
> extent picked those players, and they actually went out on a limb to get
> some of them, put a lot of work into it.  But if it is not coaching, it has
> to be just poor performance by capable players, or just flat out lousy
> football players.  I'm interested, which is it?

why must it be all one or all the other? What does this 'all or
nothing' stance accomplish? We've got big time coaching problems from
the top down and we've got big time personnel problems as well,
including lack of talent, lack of effort, lack of football smarts on
the field and lack of common sense off the field. There's enough bad
stuff to go around for all!


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 5:40 pm
From: Grinch


On Dec 13, 6:25 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
wrote:
> "Grinch" <oldna...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>
> news:7c5f6b9d-93c2-4325-886f-403d550fdf76@k3g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 13, 9:39 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > Not just football mind you... Any walk of life... What happens when
> > you take a man/woman and put them into a job that requires them to
> > perform and compete... And... good performance in a shark tank is
> > sustained not only by skill and experience, but by skill and
> > experience combined with... SELF CONFIDENCE...
>
> > So... Say you train them... All the time... "Not to make mistakes".
> > And... You stick them in a working system that you title somthing like
> > "careful caution safety" instead of "Bombs Away Bingo !" Then you put
> > them into the shark tank... Gulp...
>
> Yup, if Sanchez had 30 picks at this point after being told to go play
> "Bombs Away Bingo" his morale would be so much better!  And everyone
> would be so happy with the OC. :-)
>
> As it is, he's a victim of the formula that ruined young Flacco in
> Balt and young Ben in Pitt.    And that Lombardi and Noll and Parcells
> used to ruin one team after another and break the self-confidence of
> all their sensitive young players.
>
> You guyz are just making this stuff up.
>
> Not that I doubt for a moment that Sanchez is developing a confidence
> problem.
>
> But it's from the coaching -- it's got the same cause as the
> confidence problems suffered by Harrington, Leaf, JaMarcuss, Nagle and
> Clemens:  having a 53% completion rate and thinking "Oh my God, I
> threw another one!" three times a week.
>
> > I'm tellin ya... This kids head may go up the spout for good unless he
> > gets proper teachers.
>
> The guy's got the league-bottom completion % two years running, a
> career negative TD-pick rate including 8-12 in the last eight games,
> and the big problem is *he's not throwing enough* -- he'd be playing
> Bombs Away Bingo with the proper teachers.  In a "win now" season.
>
> And that it's not happening is proof of how bad the coaches are.
>
> Go figure.
>
> >You can see that they are training him to wet
> > the bed instead of training him to make other people worry about what
> > he is gonna do to them.
>
> So...let me get this straight or at least understand your position Grinch.
> You are saying it is all the players?

I'm saying it is patent nonsense to claim that the Harbaugh-Flacco,
Cowher-Ben, Parcells, Noll, Shula, Lombardi method of developing young/
reclaiming old QBs -- "use the running game, rely on the defense,
*don't* make mistakes" -- is a bad one that destory's the QB's self-
confidence.

But if you are asking the different question of how much of Sanchez's
performance is on Sanchez versus how much is on Schott and Rex, IMHO,
here's MHO:

Take Ryan Leaf and Joey Harrington versus Peyton Manning and Tom
Brady.

How much of the difference between them was due to their different OCs
and HCs, and how much was due to *them*?

Then take the 66% completion rate of Pennington/Favre and the 52% rate
of Clemens.

How much of that difference was on *them*, and how much was on Schott
as the OC of Penny & Favre versus Clemens having Schott as his OC?

That's how much of Sanchez's 53% completion rate is on Sanchez, IMHO.

>They flat out stink?  I can
> understand that, if it is what you are saying.  The coaches to at least some
> extent picked those players, and they actually went out on a limb to get
> some of them, put a lot of work into it.  But if it is not coaching, it has
> to be just poor performance by capable players, or just flat out lousy
> football players.  I'm interested, which is it?

There's a real big gap between "flat out stink" and "Super Bowl
favorites".

I think just the same as I wrote some weeks ago:

The Jets are a pretty good team. The players are pretty good on the
whole. The early w-l was exaggerated on the good side because they won
more than their share of close games, and close games are mostly luck.
But that's pretty much evened out, 9-4 seems fair to me -- and 9-4 is
pretty good, contender.

The D has slipped some from last year but only because last year it
was #1 dominating at everything, that never happens two years in a
row. It's still very good. It got wiped by the Pats but they're the
best O in the league, they just wiped out a pretty good D in Chicago
too.

The D wasn't at fault yesterday, holding an NFL offense (OC'd by
Henning) to 5 of 19 passing for 55 yards, with 5 sacks, and 131 total
is plenty damn good -- I don't care if the QB was Henne.

The offense is so-so. But with the D having slipped some the O has to
be better than last year. The running game is pretty good, but not as
good as last year because last year's 3 backs were better than this
year's 2. But it's still pretty good. The O line has been very good,
at least until Woody got hurt -- now we'll see, The WRs are a lot
more talented than last year, if a bit erratic and prone to the
dropsies. (If Holmes holds on to the one that bounced off him in the
end zone the papers might be telling an entirely different story
today.) But they have talent.

Nobody "flat out stinks" on this team or is anywhere close to it --
except, unfortunately, the one guy who is most important, Sanchez. In
the last 8 games he's hit 52%, has 8-12 tds-picks, and has a passing
rating of 65. That flat out stinks. Period. It's a fact.

Schott may be a bad OC, I don't know, I've never said he was a good
one.

But even if he sucks, still the top three problems on this offense are
Sanchez, Sanchez, Sanchez.

Rex said today that the team will go as far as Sanchez takes them.
He's right, they've tied their cart to the kid.

Maybe he'll get better. Eli flat out stunk in his second year and got
a lot better later. But the Giants weren't trying to "win now" in his
second year.

Sanchez had better get better in his next three games. If he does
they can do a lot in the postseason. If he doesn't...

Eli made a big jump for the better at the very end of 2007, so it can
happen, there's always hope.

That's my ever-humble opinion, FWIW.


== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 5:43 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"Tutor" <dcat4434@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f1a46e9a-88c3-46c4-b9d8-2398f132c7d4@p38g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 13, 6:25 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
wrote:
> "Grinch" <oldna...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>
> news:7c5f6b9d-93c2-4325-886f-403d550fdf76@k3g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 13, 9:39 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > Not just football mind you... Any walk of life... What happens when
> > you take a man/woman and put them into a job that requires them to
> > perform and compete... And... good performance in a shark tank is
> > sustained not only by skill and experience, but by skill and
> > experience combined with... SELF CONFIDENCE...
>
> > So... Say you train them... All the time... "Not to make mistakes".
> > And... You stick them in a working system that you title somthing like
> > "careful caution safety" instead of "Bombs Away Bingo !" Then you put
> > them into the shark tank... Gulp...
>
> Yup, if Sanchez had 30 picks at this point after being told to go play
> "Bombs Away Bingo" his morale would be so much better! And everyone
> would be so happy with the OC. :-)
>
> As it is, he's a victim of the formula that ruined young Flacco in
> Balt and young Ben in Pitt. And that Lombardi and Noll and Parcells
> used to ruin one team after another and break the self-confidence of
> all their sensitive young players.
>
> You guyz are just making this stuff up.
>
> Not that I doubt for a moment that Sanchez is developing a confidence
> problem.
>
> But it's from the coaching -- it's got the same cause as the
> confidence problems suffered by Harrington, Leaf, JaMarcuss, Nagle and
> Clemens: having a 53% completion rate and thinking "Oh my God, I
> threw another one!" three times a week.
>
> > I'm tellin ya... This kids head may go up the spout for good unless he
> > gets proper teachers.
>
> The guy's got the league-bottom completion % two years running, a
> career negative TD-pick rate including 8-12 in the last eight games,
> and the big problem is *he's not throwing enough* -- he'd be playing
> Bombs Away Bingo with the proper teachers. In a "win now" season.
>
> And that it's not happening is proof of how bad the coaches are.
>
> Go figure.
>
> >You can see that they are training him to wet
> > the bed instead of training him to make other people worry about what
> > he is gonna do to them.
>
> So...let me get this straight or at least understand your position Grinch.
> You are saying it is all the players? They flat out stink? I can
> understand that, if it is what you are saying. The coaches to at least
> some
> extent picked those players, and they actually went out on a limb to get
> some of them, put a lot of work into it. But if it is not coaching, it has
> to be just poor performance by capable players, or just flat out lousy
> football players. I'm interested, which is it?

why must it be all one or all the other? What does this 'all or
nothing' stance accomplish? We've got big time coaching problems from
the top down and we've got big time personnel problems as well,
including lack of talent, lack of effort, lack of football smarts on
the field and lack of common sense off the field. There's enough bad
stuff to go around for all!

OK....WE agree...but I read that coaching was not the problem...the thing
with this "email" newsgroup crap is that it is a terrible way to
communicate....Grinch was referring to players issues....I don't think you
can take a bunch of guys who should be able to perform and have them do as
poorly as they are and not think it is the coaching....I don't think it is
all lack of talent though, we may differ there....too many very
knowledgeable guys felt like the Jets built the team with the right parts,
something has gone wrong. I saw a lot more effort earlier in the year
too....now, they just look confused and almost like they are mailing it in.
It is never any one thing, but it can always have a focus point...and a key
element that goes bad. At one point it looked clearly like it was the
offense, now the D seems to have issues too, but no where near as bad as
offense. I think they gave away the ground and pound scheme...they are not
built for that now.


== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 5:49 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"Grinch" <oldnasty@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8c67d109-3813-491c-b287-23f6dc031154@j3g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 13, 6:25 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
wrote:
> "Grinch" <oldna...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>
> news:7c5f6b9d-93c2-4325-886f-403d550fdf76@k3g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 13, 9:39 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > Not just football mind you... Any walk of life... What happens when
> > you take a man/woman and put them into a job that requires them to
> > perform and compete... And... good performance in a shark tank is
> > sustained not only by skill and experience, but by skill and
> > experience combined with... SELF CONFIDENCE...
>
> > So... Say you train them... All the time... "Not to make mistakes".
> > And... You stick them in a working system that you title somthing like
> > "careful caution safety" instead of "Bombs Away Bingo !" Then you put
> > them into the shark tank... Gulp...
>
> Yup, if Sanchez had 30 picks at this point after being told to go play
> "Bombs Away Bingo" his morale would be so much better! And everyone
> would be so happy with the OC. :-)
>
> As it is, he's a victim of the formula that ruined young Flacco in
> Balt and young Ben in Pitt. And that Lombardi and Noll and Parcells
> used to ruin one team after another and break the self-confidence of
> all their sensitive young players.
>
> You guyz are just making this stuff up.
>
> Not that I doubt for a moment that Sanchez is developing a confidence
> problem.
>
> But it's from the coaching -- it's got the same cause as the
> confidence problems suffered by Harrington, Leaf, JaMarcuss, Nagle and
> Clemens: having a 53% completion rate and thinking "Oh my God, I
> threw another one!" three times a week.
>
> > I'm tellin ya... This kids head may go up the spout for good unless he
> > gets proper teachers.
>
> The guy's got the league-bottom completion % two years running, a
> career negative TD-pick rate including 8-12 in the last eight games,
> and the big problem is *he's not throwing enough* -- he'd be playing
> Bombs Away Bingo with the proper teachers. In a "win now" season.
>
> And that it's not happening is proof of how bad the coaches are.
>
> Go figure.
>
> >You can see that they are training him to wet
> > the bed instead of training him to make other people worry about what
> > he is gonna do to them.
>
> So...let me get this straight or at least understand your position Grinch.
> You are saying it is all the players?

I'm saying it is patent nonsense to claim that the Harbaugh-Flacco,
Cowher-Ben, Parcells, Noll, Shula, Lombardi method of developing young/
reclaiming old QBs -- "use the running game, rely on the defense,
*don't* make mistakes" -- is a bad one that destory's the QB's self-
confidence.

But if you are asking the different question of how much of Sanchez's
performance is on Sanchez versus how much is on Schott and Rex, IMHO,
here's MHO:

Take Ryan Leaf and Joey Harrington versus Peyton Manning and Tom
Brady.

How much of the difference between them was due to their different OCs
and HCs, and how much was due to *them*?

Then take the 66% completion rate of Pennington/Favre and the 52% rate
of Clemens.

How much of that difference was on *them*, and how much was on Schott
as the OC of Penny & Favre versus Clemens having Schott as his OC?

That's how much of Sanchez's 53% completion rate is on Sanchez, IMHO.

>They flat out stink? I can
> understand that, if it is what you are saying. The coaches to at least
> some
> extent picked those players, and they actually went out on a limb to get
> some of them, put a lot of work into it. But if it is not coaching, it has
> to be just poor performance by capable players, or just flat out lousy
> football players. I'm interested, which is it?

There's a real big gap between "flat out stink" and "Super Bowl
favorites".

I think just the same as I wrote some weeks ago:

The Jets are a pretty good team. The players are pretty good on the
whole. The early w-l was exaggerated on the good side because they won
more than their share of close games, and close games are mostly luck.
But that's pretty much evened out, 9-4 seems fair to me -- and 9-4 is
pretty good, contender.

The D has slipped some from last year but only because last year it
was #1 dominating at everything, that never happens two years in a
row. It's still very good. It got wiped by the Pats but they're the
best O in the league, they just wiped out a pretty good D in Chicago
too.

The D wasn't at fault yesterday, holding an NFL offense (OC'd by
Henning) to 5 of 19 passing for 55 yards, with 5 sacks, and 131 total
is plenty damn good -- I don't care if the QB was Henne.

The offense is so-so. But with the D having slipped some the O has to
be better than last year. The running game is pretty good, but not as
good as last year because last year's 3 backs were better than this
year's 2. But it's still pretty good. The O line has been very good,
at least until Woody got hurt -- now we'll see, The WRs are a lot
more talented than last year, if a bit erratic and prone to the
dropsies. (If Holmes holds on to the one that bounced off him in the
end zone the papers might be telling an entirely different story
today.) But they have talent.

Nobody "flat out stinks" on this team or is anywhere close to it --
except, unfortunately, the one guy who is most important, Sanchez. In
the last 8 games he's hit 52%, has 8-12 tds-picks, and has a passing
rating of 65. That flat out stinks. Period. It's a fact.

Schott may be a bad OC, I don't know, I've never said he was a good
one.

But even if he sucks, still the top three problems on this offense are
Sanchez, Sanchez, Sanchez.

Rex said today that the team will go as far as Sanchez takes them.
He's right, they've tied their cart to the kid.

Maybe he'll get better. Eli flat out stunk in his second year and got
a lot better later. But the Giants weren't trying to "win now" in his
second year.

Sanchez had better get better in his next three games. If he does
they can do a lot in the postseason. If he doesn't...

Eli made a big jump for the better at the very end of 2007, so it can
happen, there's always hope.

That's my ever-humble opinion, FWIW.

Well...we don't disagree all that much. And Eli is taking a huge step
backwards of late....when I first saw Carson Palmer I thought he was very
good...then he got hurt, and never came back. The reality is they made
conscious decisions to build the current team around Sanchez, the
acquisition of the WR's etc. I still think it was not a good idea to let TJ
go. The decisions they made though, seem to be coaching decisions...Rex
included and perhaps beyond Rex...and not very good ones.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Major screw-up on New York Jets web site - go listen now.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/d90df7dcf08c5e06?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 3:59 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"graybeard" <graybeard@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:6hbdg6t406d77a2u0kah6ci9je45vh6b2o@4ax.com...
> Go to www.newyorkjets.com and click on Mike Tannenbaum's live streaming
> press conference. Apparently, the folks in the room right now are not
> aware that the microphone is live, and they are discussing some office
> staff personnel issues.
> --
> graybeard

They must have just shut it down....


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 4:07 pm
From: graybeard


On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 18:59:10 -0500 "papa.carl44"
<papadotcarl@nospamverizon.net> wrote:

>
>"graybeard" <graybeard@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>news:6hbdg6t406d77a2u0kah6ci9je45vh6b2o@4ax.com...
>> Go to www.newyorkjets.com and click on Mike Tannenbaum's live streaming
>> press conference. Apparently, the folks in the room right now are not
>> aware that the microphone is live, and they are discussing some office
>> staff personnel issues.
>> --
>> graybeard
>
>They must have just shut it down....

The mic is still live, but I heard some doors closing so I expect
everyone has left the room. Gone home now probably.
--
graybeard


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 4:10 pm
From: graybeard


On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 19:07:07 -0500 graybeard <graybeard@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 18:59:10 -0500 "papa.carl44"
><papadotcarl@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"graybeard" <graybeard@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:6hbdg6t406d77a2u0kah6ci9je45vh6b2o@4ax.com...
>>> Go to www.newyorkjets.com and click on Mike Tannenbaum's live streaming
>>> press conference. Apparently, the folks in the room right now are not
>>> aware that the microphone is live, and they are discussing some office
>>> staff personnel issues.
>>> --
>>> graybeard
>>
>>They must have just shut it down....
>
>The mic is still live, but I heard some doors closing so I expect
>everyone has left the room. Gone home now probably.

Whoops, they're back, and someone just said something about Salosi being
suspended for the year.
--
graybeard


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 4:13 pm
From: graybeard


On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 19:10:34 -0500 graybeard <graybeard@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 19:07:07 -0500 graybeard <graybeard@invalid.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 18:59:10 -0500 "papa.carl44"
>><papadotcarl@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"graybeard" <graybeard@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>news:6hbdg6t406d77a2u0kah6ci9je45vh6b2o@4ax.com...
>>>> Go to www.newyorkjets.com and click on Mike Tannenbaum's live streaming
>>>> press conference. Apparently, the folks in the room right now are not
>>>> aware that the microphone is live, and they are discussing some office
>>>> staff personnel issues.
>>>> --
>>>> graybeard
>>>
>>>They must have just shut it down....
>>
>>The mic is still live, but I heard some doors closing so I expect
>>everyone has left the room. Gone home now probably.
>
>Whoops, they're back, and someone just said something about Salosi being
>suspended for the year.

OK, now it's finally the press conference.
--
graybeard

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Jets ticket office wants playoff ticket money....
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/2d9cab67e259b0fa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 4:03 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"Tutor" <dcat4434@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:113fd0b3-53fb-438a-a201-bb3ace9a40de@z26g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 13, 9:18 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Dec 13, 12:13 am, Tutor <dcat4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 12, 11:34 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > The Jets sent me a letter with a deadline to pay for playoff
> > > tickets... Well... I have a deadline for them...
>
> > > Schotty has f'ed up an offense loaded with talent, a team, a season
> > > and he's now adding the destruction of a QB to his list of impressive
> > > accomplishments. Any Jet fan with two cents of football brainpower
> > > should be throwing fits about this incompetent football zero. I was
> > > waiting to see the outcome of the miami game to decided on sending in
> > > my money to the jets ticket office for playoff tickets. They are NOT
> > > going to get an $800.00 interest free loan from me. Add to that... If
> > > schott is not gone at the end of this season, I plan to cancel my
> > > season tickets and tell them to wipe their asses with the PSL. And...
> > > I know three other season ticket holders that are going to do the same
> > > thing for the same reason. We want a good product for our money and
> > > that means we want schott gone. No way am I going to help subsidize
> > > that charlatan. And for you Schott defenders... Please dont take it
> > > personal...
>
> > you mean you don't want to front your money to see 9 players on the
> > field for a goal line defense? LOL
>
> > And for pete's sake, knock it off with "Schott defenders" nonsense.
> > You act like people think he is great. No one has said that not me,
> > not Glenn, not John. Unfortunately the Anti Schott Militia's thinking
> > is horribly flawed because it ignores all the other deficiencies on
> > this team.. and there are many on both sides of the ball, and act like
> > Schott is the cause of it all. That's just delusional.- Hide quoted
> > text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> The defense played well enough to win...
>
> If you have a bad PLAY, you dont have to blame Schott
>
> If you have a bad DRIVE, you dont have to blame Schott
>
> If you have a bad GAME you dont have to blame Schott
>
> If you can not score a TD in EIGHT quarters with the offensive roster
> the Jets have who else can you blame ??? For heck sake, man... Take
> three of the four jet losses. Ravens, GB, Miama... None of those
> teams scored more than 14 points against the Jets. They could not
> move the ball on the Jets at all. If the Jets hand ANY sort of
> offense at all, they would only have ONE loss to NE who has been
> blowing the doors off every one.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Are you dense? Where do I say the offense isn't a problem? Your "all
or nothing" proposition in that there are no problems other than
Schott on this team is wearing thin. The last solid defensive showing
we had was against the Packers. Since then it has sucked to high holy
heaven. Are you forgetting Cleveland and Detroit? Yeah we won but
that was in spite of the defense, not because of it. The only reason
why it appeared decent yesterday and against Cincinnati was because
the 2 opposing QBs, Palmer and Henne, are beyond the Sanchez level of
awful. The dee has been disorganized, unprepared and the tackling is
abyssmal. Cro has to be the softest big DB in the NFL. I wouldn't
mind his not returning. He is beyond a pussy out there. We won't
even talk about the horrible safeties any more, what's the point?
Bryan Thomas is *still* always late to the ball. I give credit to
Revis, Harris, the overburdened DL sans Jenkins and occasionally to
Bart Scott, who has disappeared in some games too (played well
yesterday). Ellis, Pouhia, Revis, Harris give it their all. Pace,
Thomas and each and every safety, including the injured defensive
captain have athletic or mental deficiencies out there. But I think a
huge part of the problem is the level of weekly preparation provided
by this entire coaching staff, most notably Schott, is atrocious. And
that's on Rex.. 100% Rex unless Rex is hamstrung and Schott really
does not report to him, And if that's the case the problems run far
deeper than Rex. Maybe Schotty has pictures of Woody and Tannenbaum
having gay sex or fondling sheep. I don't know, but it's Rex that
should be in control of Schott and no one else.

Tut...I think there are MANY problems besides the OC...it's just that his
decisions seem to be such that no matter who the Hell is executing the plays
it will not work, and that is only my perception and opinion. I do not
think Sanchez should have been a starter from the beginning...I think they
should have found a proven QB and let Sanchez develop, I was never in favor
of a win now plan and not developing a team over a couple of seasons....I
was NEVER in favor of getting rid of TJ and some of the others they let
go...but right now...with the givens the biggest issue seems to be the
offensive play scheme.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Special note: Dustin Keller
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/7037b757d9bd3b94?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 4:06 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"Tutor" <dcat4434@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6a11f843-f47a-4577-ba03-289b992b01ae@v23g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 12, 10:05 pm, Tutor <dcat4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Below average blocker. Cuts off routes and drops almost everything
> that should be caught. I am getting sick of him in a hurry.

Watching Witten tonight who runs routes well, unlike Keller, has sure
hands, unlike Keller. Jealous. Keller is a huge disappointment this
season.

Yup.....and I was not in favor of him being the go to TE either....and when
I said that a whole bunch of folks told me how good DK was. I'd still
rather have a big blocking TE who could occasionally catch....I have no idea
why they have Hartstock or whatever his name is...he goes in...it's a run.


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 4:07 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"graybeard" <graybeard@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:l94bg613h9bk75d474oi701pdhvuqva79q@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 19:05:32 -0800 (PST) Tutor <dcat4434@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Below average blocker. Cuts off routes and drops almost everything
>>that should be caught. I am getting sick of him in a hurry.
>
> Speaking of tight ends, has Hartsock ever contributed anything to this
> team other than a knack for committing stupid penalties, usually at the
> worst times? He has certainly cost the Jets far more in lost penalty
> yardage than he has helped them to gain.
> --
> graybeard

No...he hasn't...and when he is in...the D knows it is probably a run to his
side...or a cut back off the run to his side.


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 4:09 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"Tutor" <dcat4434@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d121db0a-2a56-43ce-9553-7265784995c7@v17g2000vbo.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 13, 10:04 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
>
>
>
>
> > You are hell bent on an all or nothing approach. BuRf, it's not a
> > mater of "is it Schott OR is it the players?" Please stop presenting
> > it as such. Schott sucks but Keller frucking drops everything and he
> > has been dropping everything since the bye week. He is just not very
> > good. His blocking has imnproved? Oh really? Who do you think
> > miffed on the 2nd Wake sack of Sanchez? Yup, our very own Dustin. I
> > have to check the DVR but it might have been him on the 1st Wake
> > sack. Keller has NOT improved much in blocking as far as I can tell.
> > When are you going to stop excusing players for horrible play? Rex
> > and Schott don't get them ready mentally or physically. But on the
> > field, it is the players who can't catch a cold and can't block.
> > Sanchez has been running for his life for weeks. The run game has
> > vanished. Unfortunately for Sanchez, the few passes that are actually
> > on target get dropped and the rest are behind their targets or
> > overthrown. He has played very poorly of late. Its a total collapse
> > and yes it starts with the game plan, which I agree sucks, but in no
> > way should you or anyone excuse these players for their sloppy
> > terrible play. come on man the players here are stinking up the
> > place as well as the coaches, especially Rex, doing a piss poor job
> > managing this team. Maybe Rex should give them extra time off again.
> > LOL.
>
> Dave the problem with the offense is you don't know good or bad it is
> because someone sucks each week. Schott could possibly be as clueless
> & the buRf & company think he is but you don't know when either
> receivers can't catch anything or Sanchez just plain sucks.
>
> The reality is that Tedy B was right about Sanchez. He gets in a
> groove & he is fine but when he struggles he has hard time making the
> right decision. How many time did he throw in 2X & 3X coverage?- Hide
> quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

He has been beyond awful of late. Keller really sucks too. Watching
Witten play last night made me extremely frustrated with Keller's
disappointing play. He drops everything and his route running is very
bad. Obviously his is not a contract that's going to be renewed when
the time comes. I do agree with the ASM however that Schott's game
plans and play calling have to go. It is awful. He doesn't go after
the opposition's weaknesses and the league always knows what's
coming. I agree with the ASM 100% on that and I want Schotty outta
here. Unfortunately, I don't think that his dismissal is the only
thing that needs to change. But it is an important one. I doubt he's
getting a HC gig anywhere and somehow Woody and/or Tanny + Rex are
enslaved to him. I don't get it.

Well...as you said...they don't look prepared or ready...and you are
right...someone needs to hold these high priced players accountable.


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 4:13 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"Tutor" <dcat4434@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:56f939aa-fb07-4a56-bdeb-b1a04d083de4@l24g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 13, 1:41 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 20:54:37 -0800 (PST), Tutor <dcat4...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >On Dec 12, 11:43 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 19:05:32 -0800 (PST), Tutor <dcat4...@yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >Below average blocker. Cuts off routes and drops almost everything
> >> >that should be caught. I am getting sick of him in a hurry.
>
> >> He's actually been blocking much better this year, and was having a
> >> nice season, until
> >> opposing DCs adjusted to how Schott used him. Of course, Schott hasn't
> >> answered.
> >> Again, as with Sanchez & others, if a talented player is making
> >> mistakes, not executing,
> >> etc, when do you stop blaming each individual player, and realize
> >> something systemic is
> >> going on... & start looking at the guy that designed the system, and is
> >> supposed to
> >> implement it?
> >> I thought the following quote kinda says it all...
>
> >> "Keller also had two costly drops in the final 15 minutes. The first
> >> came on a short
> >> dump-off on a 1st-and 10-from the Jets' 30. Then on third down, Keller
> >> seemed to find an
> >> opening down the left side but couldn't stop his momentum in time to
> >> reach back for a
> >> Sanchez throw that was behind him but catchable. Had Keller come up
> >> with that ball, the
> >> Jets would have had a 1st-and-10 inside the Dolphins' 40 with 3:30 left
> >> to play.
>
> >> "It's just a play that we didn't get enough reps of [in practice],"
> >> Keller said. "I don't
> >> think we threw that enough. It came down to crunch time and we weren't
> >> in synch. He threw
> >> a pretty good ball, it's just I wasn't ready for it." "
>
> >> Not enough reps in practice. I guess the players decided for
> >> themselves, not to practice
> >> that play. To me, I suspect with all the presnap motion, which fools
> >> nobody, too much
> >> time is wasted practicing that, as opposed to actually practicing what
> >> happens AFTER the
> >> snap... the plays themselves.
> >> The whole offense looks confused & uncoordinated.
> >> But, I guess it's up to the players themselves, to coordinate the
> >> offense, in the view of
> >> many here.
>
> >You are hell bent on an all or nothing approach. BuRf, it's not a
> >mater of "is it Schott OR is it the players?" Please stop presenting
> >it as such. Schott sucks but Keller frucking drops everything and he
> >has been dropping everything since the bye week. He is just not very
> >good. His blocking has imnproved? Oh really? Who do you think
> >miffed on the 2nd Wake sack of Sanchez? Yup, our very own Dustin. I
> >have to check the DVR but it might have been him on the 1st Wake
> >sack. Keller has NOT improved much in blocking as far as I can tell.
> >When are you going to stop excusing players for horrible play? Rex
> >and Schott don't get them ready mentally or physically. But on the
> >field, it is the players who can't catch a cold and can't block.
> >Sanchez has been running for his life for weeks. The run game has
> >vanished. Unfortunately for Sanchez, the few passes that are actually
> >on target get dropped and the rest are behind their targets or
> >overthrown. He has played very poorly of late. Its a total collapse
> >and yes it starts with the game plan, which I agree sucks, but in no
> >way should you or anyone excuse these players for their sloppy
> >terrible play. come on man the players here are stinking up the
> >place as well as the coaches, especially Rex, doing a piss poor job
> >managing this team. Maybe Rex should give them extra time off again.
> >LOL.
>
> How much do you watch Keller?
> I've been watching his blocking since his first season, to see if he's
> improving.
> He has markedly.
> Just because he whiffs now & then, doesn't mean he hasn't.
> The problem is how he's used.
> And like many players, when they're not involved, they tend to lose focus.
> Is Cotchery bad also? He's dropped more passes this season, than I've seen
> in his whole
> career.
> There's a focus problem on O, and the only thing that glares out at me, is
> all the presnap
> crap... much more than I've seen any other team we've played use. That
> could take
> practice time away from actual plays.
> But, there's something wrong with this O, on so may levels... and it
> effects all the
> players.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

so you are saying Keller's, Cocth's, Edwards' and even Holmes' drops
are attributable to the pre snap motion because an insufficient amount
of time is spent in practiced on the actual play? Their failure to
concentrate is caused by this? I'm not saying you are wrong, but can
you offer a hint of support for this concept? Keller had 2-3 rip
roaring great games at the outset of the season withthe same pre snap
motion. And then started to drop everything (as he did as a rookie).
Cotch hasn't been himself all season but in past years (under Schott
withthe same convoluted plays) was pretty damned sure handed. What
changed? It's the same offensive scheme as past years under Schitty,
right? There's something going on and I have no idea what it is. I'm
thinking its the whole relaxed summer camp atmosphere of Rex Ryan's NY
Jets. I don't think they practice hard at all under Rex.


I would guess you are guessing right here...they don't look like a team that
has been "drilled"....it is very sloppy play.


Again I'll
offer the comparison to Herm's Jets.... no hard practices, lack of
work ethic... plenty of days off... summer camp for vets... not
unlike Herm's Jets at all. Only with Rex there is arrrogance attached
to the poor work ethic of the team. With Herm there was stupidity
attached to the poor work ethic. The similoarities are starting to
worry me.

Well...on this we absolutely agree....way too much arrogance and BS from Rex
& Co.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Alosi fined and suspended by Jets.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/888092728f673c07?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 4:30 pm
From: graybeard


Suspended for the rest of the season without pay, plus fined $25,000. I
don't know how much he makes, but that's got to put a crimp in his
holiday spending plans.
--
graybeard

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Jets Should Lose 1st Round Draft Pick
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/f30fa662100e85a1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 4:56 pm
From: Tutor


On Dec 13, 8:44 pm, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> All you Jets fans were up in arms when the Patriots got
> ratted out by Mangina. Where is the cry now that the shoe
> is on the other foot? (pun intended)
>
> Tripgate is FAR worse than spygate.
>
> The Jets are a disgrace.

Yes, in a league that has a rapist start every Sunday in Pittsburgh
after a mere 6 game suspension. Right.


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 5:45 pm
From: "papa.carl44"

"Tutor" <dcat4434@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b99b66ec-b042-4a80-9d13-5112bbd99be7@j3g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 13, 8:44 pm, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> All you Jets fans were up in arms when the Patriots got
> ratted out by Mangina. Where is the cry now that the shoe
> is on the other foot? (pun intended)
>
> Tripgate is FAR worse than spygate.
>
> The Jets are a disgrace.

Yes, in a league that has a rapist start every Sunday in Pittsburgh
after a mere 6 game suspension. Right.

As I think of it...what team does not have an offender of some kind starting
every Sunday?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: NFL To Make Taco Shaped Football To Aid Sanchez..
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/df3f66b7f9e6d1a9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 5:00 pm
From: "mr dude@harvarduniversity.edu"


Roger Goodell announced today that in order to make level the playing
field for our international players, a new "taco shaped" football will
be introduced.

Added Goodell, "This will level the playing field for Mr. Sanchez and
demonstrate that the NFL promotes diversity and fairness."

mr dude

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I retract my offer...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/30b260281677b202?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 6:00 pm
From: rt


On Dec 13, 2:17 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Dec 12, 6:24 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 14:20:27 -0800 (PST), rt <bellingham...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >Earlier this week I offered to trade Dan Henning for Schotty.
>
> > >You guys may be cursed with a worse OC than we are, and that is saying
> > >something.
>
> > Hey rt... I would take Henning in a heartbeat.  He's been a good OC, so it may be the
> > talent on your O, especially at QB.
>
> > >I miss the old days when both offenses were exciting.
>
> > That was when Henning was our OC  ;)
>
> actually.... those were shula vs. walton teams... walton as OC under
> michaels and walton as HC.... todd and o'brien at QB and marino as
> fish qb.   Those were the real fun games

Hell yes they were. Wesley Walker, Freeman McNeal, The Mark brothers,
Dan, etc.

Win or lose you generally didn't feel embarrassed by your team's
offensive performance.

Yesterday, however, was beyond awful. I can't get my head around
Miami punting for 564 yards. I thought that may be a record but was
wrong. You seem to have a pretty deep understanding of the game,
maybe you knew this, I sure didn't (3 more punts and Fields may have
had it):

Most Punting Yardage, Game, 709, Leo Araguz, Oakland Raiders vs. San
Diego Chargers, Oct. 11, 1998

rt


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sal Alosi
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/fc1b72e04343d962?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 6:57 pm
From: Glenn Greenstein


On Dec 13, 5:54 pm, marcman <marcmanstud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 13, 5:41 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Percy Flage" <percy.flage_REM@OVE_ianwhitephoto.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> >news:k0xNo.44683$Wk6.26841@newsfe27.ams2...
>
> > > On 13/12/2010 22:06, Ray O'Hara wrote:
> > >> "finsfan"<hmatthe...@cogeco.ca>  wrote in message
> > >>news:ie4941$tce$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> > >>> Nothing?  Really
>
> > >> what isn't mentioned is the Fish gunner was two yards out of bounds and
> > >> Alosi was where he was required.
> > >> the Fish was actually committing a penalty by going out of bounds to
> > >> avoid
> > >> blockers,
> > >> so the Fish deserved to be tripped for cheating.
> > >> the coach cost the team some yards.
>
> > > The Fish player did not "deserve to be tripped for cheating". They were
> > > flagged for doing this the previous punt.
>
> >  the fish was cheating. the fact he did it the previous play shows the Fish
> > are a team of cheaters.
> > you are not allowed to go out of bounds to avoid blockers.
>
> That's not "cheating, Ray, that's a penalty.  Is jumping offsides
> "cheating?"
>
> And even if the Dolphins were as you call it "cheating" does then give
> the Jets the right to go after him like that?
>
> This line of reasoning is ridiculous even for you, Ray.

Im not agreeing with Ray on the premise that the guy got what he
deserved but yeah, jumping offsides is cheating, that's why they call
a penalty.


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 7:29 pm
From: "Heinrich"


On 12/13/2010 17:06, Ray O'Hara wrote:
> "finsfan"<hmatthews5@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
> news:ie4941$tce$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Nothing? Really
>
>
>what isn't mentioned is the Fish gunner was two yards out of bounds
>and Alosi was where he was required.

What difference does that make? You don't stick your fucking foot out
and trip the guy like a pussy.

>the Fish was actually committing a penalty by going out of bounds to
>avoid blockers, so the Fish deserved to be tripped for cheating.
>the coach cost the team some yards.

You are typical of the blue collar low class Irish piece of shit Jet
fan. Nobody deserves to be tripped in a game. Even that fat fuck Ryan
with his big mouth does not deserve to have a ball buried up his fat
ass due to his jackass remarks.

You keep talking smack, mick. The whole league is gunning for your
self aggrandized team and will ensure they do not make the playoffs.
So douchebags like you can go home and beat off on your Fireman Ed
pictures you fucking low class piece of shit mick.


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 7:30 pm
From: rt


On Dec 13, 2:06 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "finsfan" <hmatthe...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:ie4941$tce$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> > Nothing?  Really
>
> what isn't mentioned is the Fish gunner was two yards out of bounds and
> Alosi was where he was required.
> the Fish was actually committing a penalty by going out of bounds to avoid
> blockers,
> so the Fish deserved to be tripped for cheating.
> the coach cost the team some yards.

Watch the video. You couldn't more patently wrong. He was
doubleteamed and blocked OB, as the return unit is coached to do.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/miami-dolphins/09000d5d81cd974e/Dolphin-gets-tripped-on-Jets-sideline

And the "penalty" you're speaking of certainly was not "going out of
bounds", which of course didn't happen; rather, the previous flag was
because he did not get back inbounds quickly enough.

I thought Pats fans were better versed in cheating than this.

rt


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 7:30 pm
From: marcman


On Dec 13, 9:57 pm, Glenn Greenstein <lexa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 13, 5:54 pm, marcman <marcmanstud...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 13, 5:41 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Percy Flage" <percy.flage_REM@OVE_ianwhitephoto.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> > >news:k0xNo.44683$Wk6.26841@newsfe27.ams2...
>
> > > > On 13/12/2010 22:06, Ray O'Hara wrote:
> > > >> "finsfan"<hmatthe...@cogeco.ca>  wrote in message
> > > >>news:ie4941$tce$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> > > >>> Nothing?  Really
>
> > > >> what isn't mentioned is the Fish gunner was two yards out of bounds and
> > > >> Alosi was where he was required.
> > > >> the Fish was actually committing a penalty by going out of bounds to
> > > >> avoid
> > > >> blockers,
> > > >> so the Fish deserved to be tripped for cheating.
> > > >> the coach cost the team some yards.
>
> > > > The Fish player did not "deserve to be tripped for cheating". They were
> > > > flagged for doing this the previous punt.
>
> > >  the fish was cheating. the fact he did it the previous play shows the Fish
> > > are a team of cheaters.
> > > you are not allowed to go out of bounds to avoid blockers.
>
> > That's not "cheating, Ray, that's a penalty.  Is jumping offsides
> > "cheating?"
>
> > And even if the Dolphins were as you call it "cheating" does then give
> > the Jets the right to go after him like that?
>
> > This line of reasoning is ridiculous even for you, Ray.
>
> Im not agreeing with Ray on the premise that the guy got what he
> deserved but yeah, jumping offsides is cheating, that's why they call
> a penalty.

No, it's not cheating. It's an infraction. That there is a penalty for
it is the main reason why it's not cheating. When a player jumps
offsides, the play is nullified, the offending team is penalized
yardage and the down is replayed. No advantage for the offending
team.

Cheating is when you do something to gain an unfair advantage - and it
sticks. Sometimes, cheaters get caught. And they're somehow held
accountable for their actions. But the game they cheated in, doesn't
get replayed. See Pats video taping cheating debacle for more
info . . .

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Discount Wholesale Affliction Jeans Armani Jeans Christian Audigier
Jeans True Religion Jeans and so on <free shipping paypal payment> (http://www.
24hour-buy.com/ )
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/fa00c4fe0c26e6b0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 7:30 pm
From: world-trade


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==============================================================================
TOPIC: What does this stat mean to you?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/f4d3bd0a1eb3ef1d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 13 2010 7:33 pm
From: Harlan Lachman


In article <k9qcg6t0ld10igofqsn51h50vh84d9n1g5@4ax.com>,
buRford <buRford@buR.ford.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 06:27:17 -0800 (PST), Glenn Greenstein
> <lexa695@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Dec 13, 8:58�am, Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com> wrote:
> >> In article
> >> <5129a382-ca68-4e05-8fd1-d8fa51234...@c39g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
> >>
> >> �MuahMan <muah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On Dec 13, 12:41 am, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
> >> > > "The Jets' running game was brutal. On first down, they ran 18 times
> >> > > for
> >> > > only 48 yards."
> >>
> >> > > To me, I'd think, maybe after 17 runs on 1st down... "Hmmm, we're not
> >> > > having too much
> >> > > success running on 1st down. Maybe we should change it up a bit?"
> >> > > Play-action, anyone?
> >>
> >> > I'm sure the Dolphins would have loved some more interceptions on 1st
> >> > down.
> >>
> >> FWIW, I think MM has just implied a key flaw with our offense. The Jet
> >> offense is more about not making mistakes than trying to beat the other
> >> team into submission. The emphasis is on trickeration as opposed to
> >> beating other teams. The tip off their opponent to their plays with
> >> repetition and personnel who give away the plays.
> >>
> >> It is painful to have a troll identify our problems succinctly if not
> >> clearly.
> >>
> >> Harlan
> >
> >The Jets threw the ball 44 times and our QB had a 45 passer rating but
> >we should have thrown the ball more.
> >Brian is correct, had Sanchez thrown more on first down using play
> >action which wouldn't have worked since the running game was the last
> >thing the Fins were concerened with, it would have probably resulted
> >in more picks.
>
> Again, Glenn... it's not about passing more. It's about when to pass... the
> situation.
> If a D knows you're gonna run on 1st down, they'll tend to stuff it.
> So, the object is to surprise them, and not show them what you're doing.
> And actually, if you watched the game, the run was the first thing the Fins
> were concerned
> with. They wanted to take away the run.

Burf, I think you are missing a bigger point.

It is not about down. If we put in Hartsock and take out Holmes and have
T-Rich in, how often (and how effectively) do we pass. The reason teams
know what we are doing is that Shott is convinced he needs to have
specific personnel in for specific plays.

I think if we always lined up with Braylon, Cotch and Holmes and Dustin
as the TE, both our running game and passing games would be more
effective.

And if we ditched the tricky movement crap, we might even get plays off.

harlan


==============================================================================

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