Thursday, May 26, 2011

alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets - 13 new messages in 2 topics - digest

Buzz It
alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets?hl=en

alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* who gets hurt with the lockout - 12 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/8e3121f1529874a5?hl=en
* Santonio Is A Must Have - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/6a783e12f7c40a1f?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: who gets hurt with the lockout
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/8e3121f1529874a5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 12 ==
Date: Tues, May 24 2011 7:47 pm
From: Michael


On May 24, 9:40 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> I am so bored without being able  to worry about things I have zero
> control over like the Jets that I was wondering if the lockout
> actually helps us relative to other teams.
>
> Fitness
>
> It is probably overrated except for the weight training.  Running
> sprints in April probably doesn't translate into fitness in July.  I
> hope the jets have the discipline to be in the gym.  My guess is that
> most pros have that mental toughness.
>
> New players
>
> If we bring back everyone we have a leg up.  I am sure Ducasse,
> Wilkerson, & Ellis are being held back.
>
> My guess is we definitely lose Brad Smith so the Wildcat or Seminole
> could be gone.  Shaun Ellis could be snapped up by a team that needs a
> 3-4 or 4-3 end.  I bet we keep Holmes or Edwards but not both unless
> they just run 2011 as they did 2010.  If lose both the lockout hurts
> Patrick Turner, Logan Payne, etc. if they have to play.
>
> This lockout sucks.
>
> btw did the world end?

i think since the jets have so many players in contract limbo, that is
the real area to look to as far as what is good/bad for the jets
relative to other teams. will a shortened player-team contract
negotiation be in the jets favor ??? of course, the respective
circumstances of each player in question has to be considerded. i
think though, there is some reason to think it helps the jets. since
some legal paper is already in place between the guys in limbo and
the jets, a shortened negotiation period seems like it might favor the
jets. also... take into consideration the ability and skills of the
GM. tanny appears to be very capable. under a time disadvantage,
tanny gets the edge over a competing GM/team. Sort of thin, but what
the heck.


== 2 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, May 25 2011 5:59 am
From: John C TX


On May 24, 5:58 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:99f8e179-2f61-454e-8433-4eae150ce8a7@34g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
>
> > X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > I am so bored without being able  to worry about things I have zero
> > control over like the Jets that I was wondering if the lockout
> > actually helps us relative to other teams.
>
> > Fitness
>
> > It is probably overrated except for the weight training.  Running
> > sprints in April probably doesn't translate into fitness in July.  I
> > hope the jets have the discipline to be in the gym.  My guess is that
> > most pros have that mental toughness.
>
> I really disagree here...running in April and May does have a lot to do with
> how you are in July....staying in shape is a much better option than trying
> to get into shape in a hurry.  Not necessarily game shape, but good shape,
> especially cardio wise.

I agree. I should have been clearer in what I wrote. Obviously
working out, moving around & improving cardio is preferred but
building up speed in April & May will disappear by July w/o a plan.
So if they keep working when they leave the Jets before pre-season
logic tells you they will keep running w/o them right now? I am
assuming that they will run w/o the Jets.

Either way I was glad to read that many of them were in structured
programs like the type of workouts LT did last summer.


> I think SOME players will be OK...not linemen so
> much, that's why they routinely come back way overweight to begin
> with...now, it will be a real crap shoot. But that will be across the
> League.
>
>
>
> > New players
>
> > If we bring back everyone we have a leg up.  I am sure Ducasse,
> > Wilkerson, & Ellis are being held back.
>
> > My guess is we definitely lose Brad Smith so the Wildcat or Seminole
> > could be gone.  Shaun Ellis could be snapped up by a team that needs a
> > 3-4 or 4-3 end.  I bet we keep Holmes or Edwards but not both unless
> > they just run 2011 as they did 2010.  If lose both the lockout hurts
> > Patrick Turner, Logan Payne, etc. if they have to play.
>
> > This lockout sucks.
>
> > btw did the world end?
>
> If they lose Holmes AND Edwards...they better pack it in and get ready for
> last place.  I like Smith....but not how they used him in the offense so
> much.  I even like the Wildcat a lot...but not the way they ran it...so he
> can go I guess.

I think they can be OK with one of them. I prefer Holmes as Edwards
makes some great plays but still has the dropsies.

I won't rehash Smith as QB as sometime it looks great & other times it
doesn't. I agree with you. Why they don't run it until they stop
makes little sense. What a great way of wearing out a defense & then
bring in Sanchez. I would also get Sanchez off the field.

What I never understood with Smith is how a guy with his athletic
talents still has trouble catching the ball. I can't ever remember him
fumbling. If he leaves and becomes a star receiver I will fly up & we
can hang Schott together.


== 3 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, May 25 2011 6:12 am
From: John C TX


X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > I am so bored without being able  to worry about things I have zero
> > control over like the Jets that I was wondering if the lockout
> > actually helps us relative to other teams.
>
> > Fitness
>
> > It is probably overrated except for the weight training.  Running
> > sprints in April probably doesn't translate into fitness in July.  I
> > hope the jets have the discipline to be in the gym.  My guess is that
> > most pros have that mental toughness.
>
> > New players
>
> > If we bring back everyone we have a leg up.  I am sure Ducasse,
> > Wilkerson, & Ellis are being held back.
>
> > My guess is we definitely lose Brad Smith so the Wildcat or Seminole
> > could be gone.  Shaun Ellis could be snapped up by a team that needs a
> > 3-4 or 4-3 end.  I bet we keep Holmes or Edwards but not both unless
> > they just run 2011 as they did 2010.  If lose both the lockout hurts
> > Patrick Turner, Logan Payne, etc. if they have to play.
>
> > This lockout sucks.
>
> > btw did the world end?
>
> i think since the jets have so many players in contract limbo, that is
> the real area to look to as far as what is good/bad for the jets
> relative to other teams.  will a shortened player-team contract
> negotiation be in the jets favor ???

It is a two edged sword. The shortened time frame for FA may make it
more difficult for players to test the market but it may also make
teams impulsive. The guy I worry about the most is Shaun Ellis.

>of course, the respective
> circumstances of each player in question has to be considerded.  i
> think though, there is some reason to think it helps the jets.  since
> some  legal paper is already in place between the guys in limbo and
> the jets, a shortened negotiation period seems like it might favor the
> jets.  also... take into consideration the ability and skills of the
> GM.  tanny appears to be very capable.  under a time disadvantage,
> tanny gets the edge over a competing GM/team.  Sort of thin, but what
> the heck.

Are we talking about the Gholston/ McKnight GM or the David Harris GM?

:)

== 4 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, May 25 2011 6:14 am
From: John C TX


X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> everybody loses, the money is never recouped.
> but I can't believe any NFL team isn't making money.
> their idea of losing money is not the usual view.
> Art Model left Cleveland because he was "losing 10 million dollars a year"
> the truth was he was making $40 million but felt he should be making $50
> million so he was in his view losing 10 million.
> when an owners says losing he just means "i'm not making as much as I want"

They are making a ton but as time goes on their margins will erode
faster & faster as the salary cap system is based on revenue not net
income and they can't show their books because no one else will get
stadium help from cities again.


== 5 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, May 25 2011 6:15 am
From: paddy_nyr


On May 24, 9:40 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> I am so bored without being able  to worry about things I have zero
> control over like the Jets that I was wondering if the lockout
> actually helps us relative to other teams.
>
> Fitness
>
> It is probably overrated except for the weight training.  Running
> sprints in April probably doesn't translate into fitness in July.  I
> hope the jets have the discipline to be in the gym.  My guess is that
> most pros have that mental toughness.
>
> New players
>
> If we bring back everyone we have a leg up.  I am sure Ducasse,
> Wilkerson, & Ellis are being held back.
>
> My guess is we definitely lose Brad Smith so the Wildcat or Seminole
> could be gone.  Shaun Ellis could be snapped up by a team that needs a
> 3-4 or 4-3 end.  I bet we keep Holmes or Edwards but not both unless
> they just run 2011 as they did 2010.  If lose both the lockout hurts
> Patrick Turner, Logan Payne, etc. if they have to play.
>
> This lockout sucks.
>
> btw did the world end?
>

The teams with new head coaches, new offensive and defensive
coordinators, new QB's, and of course all rookies are the teams who
get hurt the most. The rest of the teams are in the same boat.


The end of the world has been pushed back by 5 months, so you still
have time.


== 6 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, May 25 2011 6:43 am
From: John C TX


X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > I am so bored without being able  to worry about things I have zero
> > control over like the Jets that I was wondering if the lockout
> > actually helps us relative to other teams.
>
> > Fitness
>
> > It is probably overrated except for the weight training.  Running
> > sprints in April probably doesn't translate into fitness in July.  I
> > hope the jets have the discipline to be in the gym.  My guess is that
> > most pros have that mental toughness.
>
> > New players
>
> > If we bring back everyone we have a leg up.  I am sure Ducasse,
> > Wilkerson, & Ellis are being held back.
>
> > My guess is we definitely lose Brad Smith so the Wildcat or Seminole
> > could be gone.  Shaun Ellis could be snapped up by a team that needs a
> > 3-4 or 4-3 end.  I bet we keep Holmes or Edwards but not both unless
> > they just run 2011 as they did 2010.  If lose both the lockout hurts
> > Patrick Turner, Logan Payne, etc. if they have to play.
>
> > This lockout sucks.
>
> > btw did the world end?
>
> The teams with new head coaches, new offensive and defensive
> coordinators, new QB's, and of course all rookies are the teams who
> get hurt the most.  The rest of the teams are in the same boat.
>
> The end of the world has been pushed back by 5 months, so you still
> have time.

For a change the Texans jumped all over something & got Wade Phillips
in with the players pre-lockout but it must be a nightmare for a new
coach.

== 7 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, May 25 2011 8:35 am
From: Michael


On May 25, 9:12 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > I am so bored without being able  to worry about things I have zero
> > > control over like the Jets that I was wondering if the lockout
> > > actually helps us relative to other teams.
>
> > > Fitness
>
> > > It is probably overrated except for the weight training.  Running
> > > sprints in April probably doesn't translate into fitness in July.  I
> > > hope the jets have the discipline to be in the gym.  My guess is that
> > > most pros have that mental toughness.
>
> > > New players
>
> > > If we bring back everyone we have a leg up.  I am sure Ducasse,
> > > Wilkerson, & Ellis are being held back.
>
> > > My guess is we definitely lose Brad Smith so the Wildcat or Seminole
> > > could be gone.  Shaun Ellis could be snapped up by a team that needs a
> > > 3-4 or 4-3 end.  I bet we keep Holmes or Edwards but not both unless
> > > they just run 2011 as they did 2010.  If lose both the lockout hurts
> > > Patrick Turner, Logan Payne, etc. if they have to play.
>
> > > This lockout sucks.
>
> > > btw did the world end?
>
> > i think since the jets have so many players in contract limbo, that is
> > the real area to look to as far as what is good/bad for the jets
> > relative to other teams.  will a shortened player-team contract
> > negotiation be in the jets favor ???
>
> It is a two edged sword.   The shortened time frame for FA may make it
> more difficult for players to test the market but it may also make
> teams impulsive.  The guy I worry about the most is Shaun Ellis.
>
> >of course, the respective
> > circumstances of each player in question has to be considerded.  i
> > think though, there is some reason to think it helps the jets.  since
> > some  legal paper is already in place between the guys in limbo and
> > the jets, a shortened negotiation period seems like it might favor the
> > jets.  also... take into consideration the ability and skills of the
> > GM.  tanny appears to be very capable.  under a time disadvantage,
> > tanny gets the edge over a competing GM/team.  Sort of thin, but what
> > the heck.
>
> Are we talking about the Gholston/ McKnight GM or the David Harris GM?
>
> :)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well... Gholston was not Tanny... It was Mangini. Mangold, Keller and
Revis were also Mangini. David Harris was, I think, the Jets LB coach
all the way...

If Tanny is as good as I suspect, a short negotiating period is "sauce
for the goose".


== 8 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, May 25 2011 2:22 pm
From: "Papa Carl"

"Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:b0602bdf-a6af-4ea8-9bbe-537384cf0b31@z37g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
On May 25, 9:12 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > I am so bored without being able to worry about things I have zero
> > > control over like the Jets that I was wondering if the lockout
> > > actually helps us relative to other teams.
>
> > > Fitness
>
> > > It is probably overrated except for the weight training. Running
> > > sprints in April probably doesn't translate into fitness in July. I
> > > hope the jets have the discipline to be in the gym. My guess is that
> > > most pros have that mental toughness.
>
> > > New players
>
> > > If we bring back everyone we have a leg up. I am sure Ducasse,
> > > Wilkerson, & Ellis are being held back.
>
> > > My guess is we definitely lose Brad Smith so the Wildcat or Seminole
> > > could be gone. Shaun Ellis could be snapped up by a team that needs a
> > > 3-4 or 4-3 end. I bet we keep Holmes or Edwards but not both unless
> > > they just run 2011 as they did 2010. If lose both the lockout hurts
> > > Patrick Turner, Logan Payne, etc. if they have to play.
>
> > > This lockout sucks.
>
> > > btw did the world end?
>
> > i think since the jets have so many players in contract limbo, that is
> > the real area to look to as far as what is good/bad for the jets
> > relative to other teams. will a shortened player-team contract
> > negotiation be in the jets favor ???
>
> It is a two edged sword. The shortened time frame for FA may make it
> more difficult for players to test the market but it may also make
> teams impulsive. The guy I worry about the most is Shaun Ellis.
>
> >of course, the respective
> > circumstances of each player in question has to be considerded. i
> > think though, there is some reason to think it helps the jets. since
> > some legal paper is already in place between the guys in limbo and
> > the jets, a shortened negotiation period seems like it might favor the
> > jets. also... take into consideration the ability and skills of the
> > GM. tanny appears to be very capable. under a time disadvantage,
> > tanny gets the edge over a competing GM/team. Sort of thin, but what
> > the heck.
>
> Are we talking about the Gholston/ McKnight GM or the David Harris GM?
>
> :)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well... Gholston was not Tanny... It was Mangini. Mangold, Keller and
Revis were also Mangini. David Harris was, I think, the Jets LB coach
all the way...

If Tanny is as good as I suspect, a short negotiating period is "sauce
for the goose".

How do we know any of this????? How can we say who brought in who? I have
never seen an offical print out saying this stuff....I'm curious, who does
it come from? How do we know?


== 9 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, May 25 2011 2:31 pm
From: John C TX


On May 25, 4:22 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:b0602bdf-a6af-4ea8-9bbe-537384cf0b31@z37g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On May 25, 9:12 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > > > I am so bored without being able to worry about things I have zero
> > > > control over like the Jets that I was wondering if the lockout
> > > > actually helps us relative to other teams.
>
> > > > Fitness
>
> > > > It is probably overrated except for the weight training. Running
> > > > sprints in April probably doesn't translate into fitness in July. I
> > > > hope the jets have the discipline to be in the gym. My guess is that
> > > > most pros have that mental toughness.
>
> > > > New players
>
> > > > If we bring back everyone we have a leg up. I am sure Ducasse,
> > > > Wilkerson, & Ellis are being held back.
>
> > > > My guess is we definitely lose Brad Smith so the Wildcat or Seminole
> > > > could be gone. Shaun Ellis could be snapped up by a team that needs a
> > > > 3-4 or 4-3 end. I bet we keep Holmes or Edwards but not both unless
> > > > they just run 2011 as they did 2010. If lose both the lockout hurts
> > > > Patrick Turner, Logan Payne, etc. if they have to play.
>
> > > > This lockout sucks.
>
> > > > btw did the world end?
>
> > > i think since the jets have so many players in contract limbo, that is
> > > the real area to look to as far as what is good/bad for the jets
> > > relative to other teams. will a shortened player-team contract
> > > negotiation be in the jets favor ???
>
> > It is a two edged sword. The shortened time frame for FA may make it
> > more difficult for players to test the market but it may also make
> > teams impulsive. The guy I worry about the most is Shaun Ellis.
>
> > >of course, the respective
> > > circumstances of each player in question has to be considerded. i
> > > think though, there is some reason to think it helps the jets. since
> > > some legal paper is already in place between the guys in limbo and
> > > the jets, a shortened negotiation period seems like it might favor the
> > > jets. also... take into consideration the ability and skills of the
> > > GM. tanny appears to be very capable. under a time disadvantage,
> > > tanny gets the edge over a competing GM/team. Sort of thin, but what
> > > the heck.
>
> > Are we talking about the Gholston/ McKnight GM or the David Harris GM?
>
> > :)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Well... Gholston was not Tanny... It was Mangini.  Mangold, Keller and
> Revis were also Mangini.  David Harris was, I think, the Jets LB coach
> all the way...
>
> If Tanny is as good as I suspect, a short negotiating period is "sauce
> for the goose".
>
> How do we know any of this?????  How can we say who brought in who?  I have
> never seen an offical print out saying this stuff....I'm curious, who does
> it come from?  How do we know?

What he said.


== 10 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, May 25 2011 4:46 pm
From: Michael


On May 25, 5:22 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:b0602bdf-a6af-4ea8-9bbe-537384cf0b31@z37g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On May 25, 9:12 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > > > I am so bored without being able to worry about things I have zero
> > > > control over like the Jets that I was wondering if the lockout
> > > > actually helps us relative to other teams.
>
> > > > Fitness
>
> > > > It is probably overrated except for the weight training. Running
> > > > sprints in April probably doesn't translate into fitness in July. I
> > > > hope the jets have the discipline to be in the gym. My guess is that
> > > > most pros have that mental toughness.
>
> > > > New players
>
> > > > If we bring back everyone we have a leg up. I am sure Ducasse,
> > > > Wilkerson, & Ellis are being held back.
>
> > > > My guess is we definitely lose Brad Smith so the Wildcat or Seminole
> > > > could be gone. Shaun Ellis could be snapped up by a team that needs a
> > > > 3-4 or 4-3 end. I bet we keep Holmes or Edwards but not both unless
> > > > they just run 2011 as they did 2010. If lose both the lockout hurts
> > > > Patrick Turner, Logan Payne, etc. if they have to play.
>
> > > > This lockout sucks.
>
> > > > btw did the world end?
>
> > > i think since the jets have so many players in contract limbo, that is
> > > the real area to look to as far as what is good/bad for the jets
> > > relative to other teams. will a shortened player-team contract
> > > negotiation be in the jets favor ???
>
> > It is a two edged sword. The shortened time frame for FA may make it
> > more difficult for players to test the market but it may also make
> > teams impulsive. The guy I worry about the most is Shaun Ellis.
>
> > >of course, the respective
> > > circumstances of each player in question has to be considerded. i
> > > think though, there is some reason to think it helps the jets. since
> > > some legal paper is already in place between the guys in limbo and
> > > the jets, a shortened negotiation period seems like it might favor the
> > > jets. also... take into consideration the ability and skills of the
> > > GM. tanny appears to be very capable. under a time disadvantage,
> > > tanny gets the edge over a competing GM/team. Sort of thin, but what
> > > the heck.
>
> > Are we talking about the Gholston/ McKnight GM or the David Harris GM?
>
> > :)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Well... Gholston was not Tanny... It was Mangini.  Mangold, Keller and
> Revis were also Mangini.  David Harris was, I think, the Jets LB coach
> all the way...
>
> If Tanny is as good as I suspect, a short negotiating period is "sauce
> for the goose".
>
> How do we know any of this?????  How can we say who brought in who?  I have
> never seen an offical print out saying this stuff....I'm curious, who does
> it come from?  How do we know?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

no way to prove it in court, papa...

a few bits of circumstantial evidence

David harris: at the time he was drafted, jim herrmann, the jets LB
coach at the time.. who came from MI, took Harris along with him to
the Jets via the draft. I'm not going to rummage the net for you, but
there were a number of articles in the papers at the time reporting in
herrmann selling Harris to the Jets for the draft. just like the way
Callahan took slauson along to the jets from the huskers via the draft

nick mangold. he was ALL mangini. again... Im not going to produce
court ready proof for you. mangini light up like a Christmas tree
when discussing mangold. he was the "character" guy that he has his
eye on all the way. he also spoke of his beliefe that a team needs to
be build from the inside out. he did the same when he selected alex
mac as the center for the browns. i watched mack play last season and
felt that he would be regarded as an elite center in short order.
alex mack was all mangini just like mangold was.

revis: his draft was almost a no brainer, but mangini himself said he
was our guy. nothing solid at all i can give you here other than
mangini agreed they wanted him

gholston: article after article and report after report... mangini did
not want him to slip to the patriots. it was a fear pick. he was off
ballance.

another fact to keep in mind about who gets credit for draft picks.
it is reported time over.. clearly... tanny is a money and cap guy.
he plays little to no part in selecting the groceries. he just
handles the contracts


== 11 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, May 25 2011 4:51 pm
From: Michael


On May 25, 5:31 pm, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 25, 4:22 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:b0602bdf-a6af-4ea8-9bbe-537384cf0b31@z37g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> > On May 25, 9:12 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > > > > I am so bored without being able to worry about things I have zero
> > > > > control over like the Jets that I was wondering if the lockout
> > > > > actually helps us relative to other teams.
>
> > > > > Fitness
>
> > > > > It is probably overrated except for the weight training. Running
> > > > > sprints in April probably doesn't translate into fitness in July. I
> > > > > hope the jets have the discipline to be in the gym. My guess is that
> > > > > most pros have that mental toughness.
>
> > > > > New players
>
> > > > > If we bring back everyone we have a leg up. I am sure Ducasse,
> > > > > Wilkerson, & Ellis are being held back.
>
> > > > > My guess is we definitely lose Brad Smith so the Wildcat or Seminole
> > > > > could be gone. Shaun Ellis could be snapped up by a team that needs a
> > > > > 3-4 or 4-3 end. I bet we keep Holmes or Edwards but not both unless
> > > > > they just run 2011 as they did 2010. If lose both the lockout hurts
> > > > > Patrick Turner, Logan Payne, etc. if they have to play.
>
> > > > > This lockout sucks.
>
> > > > > btw did the world end?
>
> > > > i think since the jets have so many players in contract limbo, that is
> > > > the real area to look to as far as what is good/bad for the jets
> > > > relative to other teams. will a shortened player-team contract
> > > > negotiation be in the jets favor ???
>
> > > It is a two edged sword. The shortened time frame for FA may make it
> > > more difficult for players to test the market but it may also make
> > > teams impulsive. The guy I worry about the most is Shaun Ellis.
>
> > > >of course, the respective
> > > > circumstances of each player in question has to be considerded. i
> > > > think though, there is some reason to think it helps the jets. since
> > > > some legal paper is already in place between the guys in limbo and
> > > > the jets, a shortened negotiation period seems like it might favor the
> > > > jets. also... take into consideration the ability and skills of the
> > > > GM. tanny appears to be very capable. under a time disadvantage,
> > > > tanny gets the edge over a competing GM/team. Sort of thin, but what
> > > > the heck.
>
> > > Are we talking about the Gholston/ McKnight GM or the David Harris GM?
>
> > > :)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Well... Gholston was not Tanny... It was Mangini.  Mangold, Keller and
> > Revis were also Mangini.  David Harris was, I think, the Jets LB coach
> > all the way...
>
> > If Tanny is as good as I suspect, a short negotiating period is "sauce
> > for the goose".
>
> > How do we know any of this?????  How can we say who brought in who?  I have
> > never seen an offical print out saying this stuff....I'm curious, who does
> > it come from?  How do we know?
>
> What he said.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

John... Explain to me first..

"Are we talking about the Gholston/ McKnight GM or the David Harris
GM?"

prove to me it was tanny behind Gholston and Harris.

tanny least of all makes player decisions. that very well know. he's
a contract and cap guy. he does not evaluate players.


== 12 of 12 ==
Date: Wed, May 25 2011 9:42 pm
From: "Papa Carl"

"Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:b6abb25e-d007-407f-ab29-ee122c79c949@bl1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
On May 25, 5:22 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:b0602bdf-a6af-4ea8-9bbe-537384cf0b31@z37g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On May 25, 9:12 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > > > I am so bored without being able to worry about things I have zero
> > > > control over like the Jets that I was wondering if the lockout
> > > > actually helps us relative to other teams.
>
> > > > Fitness
>
> > > > It is probably overrated except for the weight training. Running
> > > > sprints in April probably doesn't translate into fitness in July. I
> > > > hope the jets have the discipline to be in the gym. My guess is that
> > > > most pros have that mental toughness.
>
> > > > New players
>
> > > > If we bring back everyone we have a leg up. I am sure Ducasse,
> > > > Wilkerson, & Ellis are being held back.
>
> > > > My guess is we definitely lose Brad Smith so the Wildcat or Seminole
> > > > could be gone. Shaun Ellis could be snapped up by a team that needs
> > > > a
> > > > 3-4 or 4-3 end. I bet we keep Holmes or Edwards but not both unless
> > > > they just run 2011 as they did 2010. If lose both the lockout hurts
> > > > Patrick Turner, Logan Payne, etc. if they have to play.
>
> > > > This lockout sucks.
>
> > > > btw did the world end?
>
> > > i think since the jets have so many players in contract limbo, that is
> > > the real area to look to as far as what is good/bad for the jets
> > > relative to other teams. will a shortened player-team contract
> > > negotiation be in the jets favor ???
>
> > It is a two edged sword. The shortened time frame for FA may make it
> > more difficult for players to test the market but it may also make
> > teams impulsive. The guy I worry about the most is Shaun Ellis.
>
> > >of course, the respective
> > > circumstances of each player in question has to be considerded. i
> > > think though, there is some reason to think it helps the jets. since
> > > some legal paper is already in place between the guys in limbo and
> > > the jets, a shortened negotiation period seems like it might favor the
> > > jets. also... take into consideration the ability and skills of the
> > > GM. tanny appears to be very capable. under a time disadvantage,
> > > tanny gets the edge over a competing GM/team. Sort of thin, but what
> > > the heck.
>
> > Are we talking about the Gholston/ McKnight GM or the David Harris GM?
>
> > :)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Well... Gholston was not Tanny... It was Mangini. Mangold, Keller and
> Revis were also Mangini. David Harris was, I think, the Jets LB coach
> all the way...
>
> If Tanny is as good as I suspect, a short negotiating period is "sauce
> for the goose".
>
> How do we know any of this????? How can we say who brought in who? I have
> never seen an offical print out saying this stuff....I'm curious, who does
> it come from? How do we know?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

no way to prove it in court, papa...

a few bits of circumstantial evidence

David harris: at the time he was drafted, jim herrmann, the jets LB
coach at the time.. who came from MI, took Harris along with him to
the Jets via the draft. I'm not going to rummage the net for you, but
there were a number of articles in the papers at the time reporting in
herrmann selling Harris to the Jets for the draft. just like the way
Callahan took slauson along to the jets from the huskers via the draft

nick mangold. he was ALL mangini. again... Im not going to produce
court ready proof for you. mangini light up like a Christmas tree
when discussing mangold. he was the "character" guy that he has his
eye on all the way. he also spoke of his beliefe that a team needs to
be build from the inside out. he did the same when he selected alex
mac as the center for the browns. i watched mack play last season and
felt that he would be regarded as an elite center in short order.
alex mack was all mangini just like mangold was.

revis: his draft was almost a no brainer, but mangini himself said he
was our guy. nothing solid at all i can give you here other than
mangini agreed they wanted him

gholston: article after article and report after report... mangini did
not want him to slip to the patriots. it was a fear pick. he was off
ballance.

another fact to keep in mind about who gets credit for draft picks.
it is reported time over.. clearly... tanny is a money and cap guy.
he plays little to no part in selecting the groceries. he just
handles the contracts

Personally, I think it's more a bunch of guys talk about who is
available...and somebody knows something about somebody, suggests they may
be good...then the talent guys have at it, scouts etc. I don't think any
one person makes the decision or brings a guy in...I'll bet it's more of a
process. OMHO

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Santonio Is A Must Have
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/6a783e12f7c40a1f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, May 25 2011 3:12 pm
From: JetsLife


This kid's competitive outlook in this interview represents the kind
of mentality necessary to be the best. He is pure and simple a must
have.

If we had deployed him earlier in the AFC Champ maybe we advance and
then maybe we win it all. All he does is make game-breaking plays.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/24/interview-with-santonio-holmes-wr-new-york-jets/


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