Tuesday, August 16, 2011

alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets - 25 new messages in 7 topics - digest

Buzz It
alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets?hl=en

alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Jets - Texans game thoughts - 6 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/9ca69d9b591b81bc?hl=en
* Fire Illegal Alien Sanchez!! Start Drunken Mick McElroy!!! - 4 messages, 4
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/5d73265827c96f23?hl=en
* Vlad Ducasse - 5 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/e07f45c011829a7f?hl=en
* Pats Soft - Michael-Mark Pissing Match - 7 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/f74be03237a4cf2e?hl=en
* Jeff Cumberland - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/71381e616f74a917?hl=en
* With the addition of Ochocinco, the Pats still dont have a single WR - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/ffc431ec3cbc96a6?hl=en
* Turner has Broken Leg - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/32837cadc48cccd7?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Jets - Texans game thoughts
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/9ca69d9b591b81bc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 15 2011 10:36 pm
From: Ritchie


My worst fear is that Sanchez is going to get hurt with the offensive
line so questionable.. McKnight's blocking is horrible!

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 5:32 am
From: John C TX


X-No-Archive: Yes

> 1. I like the new QB McElroy.  Good footwork, accurate passing..
> Uncommon natural leadership on the field for a new guy.  Still early,
> but I think this guy is a real find.

If it wasn't for some drops &some no PI calls he would have had a
great game.
>
> 3. J. Kerley... For all the talk seems to be the guy that "amost"
> makes the big catch.  Probably not a true wide-out, but may yet be a
> slot/possession guy.  Need more time to watch him and evaluate
>
> 4. B. Powell... Has nice burst.  Probably will surpass McNight soon
> enough.  Still too early to tell.

We will see he had a ton of space but I was glad to see what he did
because based on his press he could have not showed up at camp.
>
> 5. Devito may currently be the Jets best D-line guy.  He plays very
> well. Picked up where he left off.

Easy thing to do on this team.
>
> 6. As I was afraid of... The Jets WR's are not the worry this year....
> It is the offensive line.  And now Turner is injured.  Oh no !

That is big but the guy who came on looked OK.
>
> 7. Holey sweet potatoes, is Ducasse every bit as cluless as I saw him
> to be last season.  Putting him at the tackle position even in the
> preseason is askign to get Sanchez killed.  This guy straight up
> sucks.

He looked bad early but improved. He probably is not a tackle.
>
> 8. Slauson... I got my wish... The fist running play was with Green up
> the gut in the Slauson hole.  Two others when that way too.  Yay !!!
> I'm glad they got the clue.  Use Slauson like the no frills mauler
> that he is.
>
> 9. Kroul.  The project o-line convert # 66 got extensive work at
> guard.  More ofthen than not, defenders had an easy time gettint
> around him.  Thoug, in the third quarter, I saw him beginning to bend
> at the knee, twist his hips and use his hands on the defenders
> shoulder to counter him.  Once he gets a guy stood up, he can bull
> them.  He may yet be able to learn the position.  More observation is
> in order.

>
> 10. Sanches... Looked fast, slick and accurate on all the short
> patterns.  Very impressive.  I like it !!!
>
> And I repeat... MAN DOES DUCASSE LOOK BAD.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 5:26 am
From: John C TX


On Aug 16, 12:36 am, Ritchie <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote:X-No-
Archive: Yes
> My worst fear is that Sanchez is going to get hurt with the offensive
> line so questionable.. McKnight's blocking is horrible!

Ritchie, I would say the opposite. All I saw was that he picked up
the blitz. Granted, one time Reed ran him over but 250 vs 180 that
will happen. Leon Washington was here how long & I never saw him pick
up the blitz in his career as many times as McKnight did in one game.


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 9:08 am
From: eric


Well from the Jets-Texans game last night I have the following
observations:

1. Kendrick Ellis is a budding star.
2. Kerley will make everyone forget Brad Smith. As a starting WR?
Needs to improve.
3. Derrick Mason will catch everything in his area. However is not
fast and is certainly no #2.
4. Jets OLine backups are terrible. Better hope no first stringers get
injured.
5. Running game not much in evidence, hard to say much about it.
6. The Jets 2010 draft was a bust. Nobody from that year showed
anything and is unlikely to in the future.
7. The new kickoff rules will hurt the Jets as there will be many more
touchbacks leading to longer fields for an average offense that was
helped a lot last year by the league's best KR squad.
8. Better hope Plax can play at the level of Edwards. Otherwise the
offense won't be as good as last year.
9. Red Zone offense didn't show much.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 9:37 am
From: Michael


On Aug 16, 12:08 pm, eric <warth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well from the Jets-Texans game last night I have the following
> observations:
>
> 1. Kendrick Ellis is a budding star.

He did not appear to get much push off the ball for a big guy. Still
too early to tell.

> 2. Kerley will make everyone forget Brad Smith. As a starting WR?
> Needs to improve.

I was not sold on him. Questionable hands.

> 3. Derrick Mason will catch everything in his area. However is not
> fast and is certainly no #2.

Yes !

> 4. Jets OLine backups are terrible. Better hope no first stringers get
> injured.

This is their big problem this year. And now Robert Turner is
reported to have a broken leg.

> 5. Running game not much in evidence, hard to say much about it.

Too early to tell. They better not lose any more of their o-line guys
or even Walter Payton would not be able to help their running game.

> 6. The Jets 2010 draft was a bust. Nobody from that year showed
> anything and is unlikely to in the future.

Well.. At least Wilson was aware of the ball this time and got himself
into position.

> 7. The new kickoff rules will hurt the Jets as there will be many more
> touchbacks leading to longer fields for an average offense that was
> helped a lot last year by the league's best KR squad.

NFL = no fun league these days.

> 8. Better hope Plax can play at the level of Edwards. Otherwise the
> offense won't be as good as last year.

I dont think Plax will be at a pro level for a full season if ever
again. I'm not worried. Santonio, Keller and Mason can do it.

> 9. Red Zone offense didn't show much.

Yeah...


== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 11:30 am
From: Tutor


On Aug 15, 11:38 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> 1. I like the new QB McElroy.  Good footwork, accurate passing..
> Uncommon natural leadership on the field for a new guy.  Still early,
> but I think this guy is a real find.
>
> 3. J. Kerley... For all the talk seems to be the guy that "amost"
> makes the big catch.  Probably not a true wide-out, but may yet be a
> slot/possession guy.  Need more time to watch him and evaluate
>
> 4. B. Powell... Has nice burst.  Probably will surpass McNight soon
> enough.  Still too early to tell.
>
> 5. Devito may currently be the Jets best D-line guy.  He plays very
> well. Picked up where he left off.
>
> 6. As I was afraid of... The Jets WR's are not the worry this year....
> It is the offensive line.  And now Turner is injured.  Oh no !
>
> 7. Holey sweet potatoes, is Ducasse every bit as cluless as I saw him
> to be last season.  Putting him at the tackle position even in the
> preseason is askign to get Sanchez killed.  This guy straight up
> sucks.
>
> 8. Slauson... I got my wish... The fist running play was with Green up
> the gut in the Slauson hole.  Two others when that way too.  Yay !!!
> I'm glad they got the clue.  Use Slauson like the no frills mauler
> that he is.
>
> 9. Kroul.  The project o-line convert # 66 got extensive work at
> guard.  More ofthen than not, defenders had an easy time gettint
> around him.  Thoug, in the third quarter, I saw him beginning to bend
> at the knee, twist his hips and use his hands on the defenders
> shoulder to counter him.  Once he gets a guy stood up, he can bull
> them.  He may yet be able to learn the position.  More observation is
> in order.
>
> 10. Sanches... Looked fast, slick and accurate on all the short
> patterns.  Very impressive.  I like it !!!
>
> And I repeat... MAN DOES DUCASSE LOOK BAD.

Jets Oline: The Good, the Vlad and the Ugly. (with Vlad occupying
dual roles in that trio.)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fire Illegal Alien Sanchez!! Start Drunken Mick McElroy!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/5d73265827c96f23?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 5:33 am
From: John C TX


X-No-Archive: Yes

> The drunken Mick is a winner!!!!!
>
> mr dude

Good to see you back.


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 7:04 am
From: Michael


On Aug 16, 8:33 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > The drunken Mick is a winner!!!!!
>
> > mr dude
>
> Good to see you back.

and you were the guy bashing irish qb's in green :-)


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 8:58 am
From: "JohnC\(TX\)"


X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > The drunken Mick is a winner!!!!!
>
> > mr dude
>
> Good to see you back.

and you were the guy bashing irish qb's in green :-)

Good memory but he is Texas Irish.

:)


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 9:12 am
From: eric


On Aug 16, 11:58 am, "JohnC\(TX\)" <johnctxjetss...@gmail.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
>
>
> > > The drunken Mick is a winner!!!!!
>
> > > mr dude
>
> > Good to see you back.
>
> and you were the guy bashing irish qb's in green :-)
>
> Good memory but he is Texas Irish.
>
> :)

The Mick throws like Pennington. Almost the exact same wobble. Gutsy
though.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Vlad Ducasse
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/e07f45c011829a7f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 5:36 am
From: John C TX


On Aug 15, 10:05 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Tutor" <dcat4...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:495937eb-1096-4be1-b038-035c58e96127@w11g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Oh my Gawd.
>
> > He is just atrocious.  Perhaps the worst Olineman ever drafted by the
> > organization, let alone with the 2nd round pick.  He won't make the
> > team.  We have serious issues on this Oline.  SERIOUS
>
> > On a brighter note, Kyle Wilson actually knew where the ball was at
> > times.
>
> > 2010 draft = very very bad (so far)
>
> And McKnight can NOT block, and runs crappy pass routes....but the worst
> is..he is going to get Sanchez killed.

Papa, I just posted that I thought he picked up the blitz. Are you
saying technically what he was doing or mentally? He at least saw it
which is more than I can ever say about Leon Washington. I will re-
watch it but I truly was pleased he saw the blitz several times &
actually blocked.


== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 5:50 am
From: John C TX


X-No-Archive: Yes
> Oh my Gawd.
>
> He is just atrocious.  Perhaps the worst Olineman ever drafted by the
> organization, let alone with the 2nd round pick.  He won't make the
> team.  We have serious issues on this Oline.  SERIOUS
>
> On a brighter note, Kyle Wilson actually knew where the ball was at
> times.
>
> 2010 draft = very very bad (so far)

Dave weren't you one of those guys saying Ferguson sucked his first
two years? I am not saying he is good or will be but he improved
after that early sack. I will watch it again. The highlights I just
watched now looked really bad but:

1. They lost Turner.
2. They were playing w/o Moore & Mangold.
3. He has been practicing at guard & got moved to tackle after Turner
went down.
4. He is a project as he is from a 1AA school so take a deep breath.

Wilson made some plays so maybe there is hope.


== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 11:28 am
From: Tutor


On Aug 16, 8:50 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > Oh my Gawd.
>
> > He is just atrocious.  Perhaps the worst Olineman ever drafted by the
> > organization, let alone with the 2nd round pick.  He won't make the
> > team.  We have serious issues on this Oline.  SERIOUS
>
> > On a brighter note, Kyle Wilson actually knew where the ball was at
> > times.
>
> > 2010 draft = very very bad (so far)
>
> Dave weren't you one of those guys saying Ferguson sucked his first
> two years?  I am not saying he is good or will be but he improved
> after that early sack.  I will watch it again. The highlights I just
> watched now looked really bad but:
>
> 1. They lost Turner.
> 2. They were playing w/o Moore & Mangold.
> 3. He has been practicing at guard & got moved to tackle after Turner
> went down.
> 4. He is a project as he is from a 1AA school so take a deep breath.
>
> Wilson made some plays so maybe there is hope.

No I was the guy trying to be the voice of reason vs. Jonny and all
the other anti-Brick guys from the first day he entered camp. He's
come around big. I don't see the same potential in Vlad. He was lost
out there. A matador without a cape.


== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 11:43 am
From: Ritchie


On Aug 15, 11:05 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:

>
> And McKnight can NOT block, and runs crappy pass routes....but the worst
> is..he is going to get Sanchez killed.

I guess you and I are the only ones that noticed how bad McKnight is
at blocking. I am really afraid for Sanchez this season.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 12:38 pm
From: John C TX


On Aug 16, 1:28 pm, Tutor <dcat4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 16, 8:50 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > > Oh my Gawd.
>
> > > He is just atrocious.  Perhaps the worst Olineman ever drafted by the
> > > organization, let alone with the 2nd round pick.  He won't make the
> > > team.  We have serious issues on this Oline.  SERIOUS
>
> > > On a brighter note, Kyle Wilson actually knew where the ball was at
> > > times.
>
> > > 2010 draft = very very bad (so far)
>
> > Dave weren't you one of those guys saying Ferguson sucked his first
> > two years?  I am not saying he is good or will be but he improved
> > after that early sack.  I will watch it again. The highlights I just
> > watched now looked really bad but:
>
> > 1. They lost Turner.
> > 2. They were playing w/o Moore & Mangold.
> > 3. He has been practicing at guard & got moved to tackle after Turner
> > went down.
> > 4. He is a project as he is from a 1AA school so take a deep breath.
>
> > Wilson made some plays so maybe there is hope.
>
> No I was the guy trying to be the voice of reason vs. Jonny and all
> the other anti-Brick guys from the first day he entered camp.  He's
> come around big.  I don't see the same potential in Vlad.  He was lost
> out there.  A matador without a cape.

He is & always a project & maybe didn't warrant the # 2. My untrained
tells me he is probably a guard more than a tackle but look at the
circumstances. He was playing next to the #2 center & then the #3
center. That Turner breaks his leg critical he step up. Show your
patience again.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pats Soft - Michael-Mark Pissing Match
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/f74be03237a4cf2e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 8:48 am
From: MZ


On Aug 15, 9:00 pm, JetsLife <JetsL...@aol.com> wrote:
> This is the secret the NFL, ESPN, etc. dare not speak of: the Pats are
> soft and will never win anything of note until they become tough. Yet
> because the Pats in so many ways keep a lid on things led by their
> pretty-boy QB, stake-holders dare not challenge their public persona.
>
> When they should. When they should see the Pats for what the
> contenders do: a soft outfit skating by on their past (cheating-
> based?) achievements.
>
> The Pats remain a top-heavy team: kill Brady, you kill the Pats.

Name a (good) team where taking out the starting QB doesn't hurt the
team big time.


== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 9:46 am
From: Michael


On Aug 15, 9:00 pm, JetsLife <JetsL...@aol.com> wrote:
> This is the secret the NFL, ESPN, etc. dare not speak of: the Pats are
> soft and will never win anything of note until they become tough. Yet
> because the Pats in so many ways keep a lid on things led by their
> pretty-boy QB, stake-holders dare not challenge their public persona.
>
> When they should. When they should see the Pats for what the
> contenders do: a soft outfit skating by on their past (cheating-
> based?) achievements.
>
> The Pats remain a top-heavy team: kill Brady, you kill the Pats.

you dont really have to kill brady, just stuff up their system like
the jets did in the playoffs. i agree that they need more tuffness on
defense just as much as i think they need a big star WR instead of WR
by retread committee. they had that line with wilfork, seymour and
warren in front of big smart lb's. it worked to stop the run on 1st
and 2nd. then they had a nice one gap pressure package to put in on
third down. they also had elite skill at the cb position. now old beel-
a-chick thinks he can win all of his battles with retreads and budget
low round draft picks and he sophmoricaly kisses off quality manpower
to get "value" for them.


== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 11:11 am
From: eric


On Aug 15, 9:00 pm, JetsLife <JetsL...@aol.com> wrote:
> This is the secret the NFL, ESPN, etc. dare not speak of: the Pats are
> soft and will never win anything of note until they become tough. Yet
> because the Pats in so many ways keep a lid on things led by their
> pretty-boy QB, stake-holders dare not challenge their public persona.

If by soft you mean a less than strong defense, yes, that is what they
have. The last two early playoff losses were primarily due to not
being able to stop the opposing offense. 28 points to the Jets? 33 to
the Ravens? Give me a break, these teams offenses are not that good.
From the 2001 up to 2007 season loss to Indy they gave up 28 or more
points only once in 13 playoff games, and that was in the Super Bowl
to a Carolina team that was juiced up on steroids.

They have not managed to rebuild from the loss of the likes of Vrabel,
Bruschi, Colvin, Johnson, McGinest and Harrison to retirement or free
agency. The LB corps was the heart of the team and they are all gone
due to the simple passage of time.

They have also been hurt by raids on the coaching staff. How many
coordinators have they lost?

Crennel
Weis
Mangini
Pees
McDaniels

are the ones I can remember. There may be more. It got to the point
last year where they didn't even bother naming coordinators. This year
they named O'Brien as their OC. Let's see how long he lasts.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 11:17 am
From: "MLD"

"Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:954f9fcb-4398-44f5-8b60-e5a7292f6509@b34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 15, 9:00 pm, JetsLife <JetsL...@aol.com> wrote:
> This is the secret the NFL, ESPN, etc. dare not speak of: the Pats are
> soft and will never win anything of note until they become tough. Yet
> because the Pats in so many ways keep a lid on things led by their
> pretty-boy QB, stake-holders dare not challenge their public persona.
>
> When they should. When they should see the Pats for what the
> contenders do: a soft outfit skating by on their past (cheating-
> based?) achievements.
>
> The Pats remain a top-heavy team: kill Brady, you kill the Pats.

you dont really have to kill brady, just stuff up their system like
the jets did in the playoffs. i agree that they need more tuffness on
defense just as much as i think they need a big star WR instead of WR
by retread committee. they had that line with wilfork, seymour and
warren in front of big smart lb's. it worked to stop the run on 1st
and 2nd. then they had a nice one gap pressure package to put in on
third down. they also had elite skill at the cb position. now old beel-
a-chick thinks he can win all of his battles with retreads and budget
low round draft picks and he sophmoricaly kisses off quality manpower
to get "value" for them.

Based on your expert analysis I guess the Pats are destined for last place
and out of the Playoffs. Why are you guys so memorized by the Pats? You're
just not going to make them go away by worrying about them and talking
yourselves into how lousy they are. You don't see any of this "Oh woe is
me" re-Jets on the Pat's NG. Perhaps you should read the following article
written by one of your NY writers.
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/16/2011-new-england-patriots-preview/
MLD

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 11:47 am
From: Michael


On Aug 16, 2:17 pm, "MLD" <M...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:954f9fcb-4398-44f5-8b60-e5a7292f6509@b34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 15, 9:00 pm, JetsLife <JetsL...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > This is the secret the NFL, ESPN, etc. dare not speak of: the Pats are
> > soft and will never win anything of note until they become tough. Yet
> > because the Pats in so many ways keep a lid on things led by their
> > pretty-boy QB, stake-holders dare not challenge their public persona.
>
> > When they should. When they should see the Pats for what the
> > contenders do: a soft outfit skating by on their past (cheating-
> > based?) achievements.
>
> > The Pats remain a top-heavy team: kill Brady, you kill the Pats.
>
> you dont really have to kill brady, just stuff up their system like
> the jets did in the playoffs. i agree that they need more tuffness on
> defense just as much as i think they need a big star WR instead of WR
> by retread committee.   they had that line with wilfork, seymour and
> warren in front of big smart lb's.  it worked to stop the run on 1st
> and 2nd.  then they had a nice one gap pressure package to put in on
> third down. they also had elite skill at the cb position. now old beel-
> a-chick thinks he can win all of his battles with retreads and budget
> low round draft picks and he sophmoricaly kisses off quality manpower
> to get "value" for them.
>
> Based on your expert analysis I guess the Pats are destined for last place
> and out of the Playoffs.  Why are you guys so memorized by the Pats?  You're
> just not going to make them go away by worrying about them and talking
> yourselves into how lousy they are.  You don't see any of this "Oh woe is
> me" re-Jets on the Pat's NG.  Perhaps you should read the following article
> written by one of your NY writers.http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/16/2011-new-england-patrio...
> MLD

huh ??? i think the pats will probably win the div and not the jets...
the jets are not that good of a team. i'm not holding the jets out as
an example for the pats to follow. i like the rex jets because they
are fun and entertaining to follow. rex is a good leader of his
people and an excellent defensive game caller... on top of that, he's
also a fantastic bafoon and is oodles of fun. i'm making a single
critical point about bb, not a comprehensive condemnation. that point
once again, is that he appears to be allerric to game winning
superstars that do their best work as a result of uncommon talent and
not by means of complicity to a blueprint.


== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 11:48 am
From: MZ


On Aug 16, 12:46 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Aug 15, 9:00 pm, JetsLife <JetsL...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > This is the secret the NFL, ESPN, etc. dare not speak of: the Pats are
> > soft and will never win anything of note until they become tough. Yet
> > because the Pats in so many ways keep a lid on things led by their
> > pretty-boy QB, stake-holders dare not challenge their public persona.
>
> > When they should. When they should see the Pats for what the
> > contenders do: a soft outfit skating by on their past (cheating-
> > based?) achievements.
>
> > The Pats remain a top-heavy team: kill Brady, you kill the Pats.
>
> you dont really have to kill brady, just stuff up their system like
> the jets did in the playoffs. i agree that they need more tuffness on
> defense just as much as i think they need a big star WR instead of WR
> by retread committee.   they had that line with wilfork, seymour and
> warren in front of big smart lb's.  it worked to stop the run on 1st
> and 2nd.  then they had a nice one gap pressure package to put in on
> third down. they also had elite skill at the cb position. now old beel-
> a-chick thinks he can win all of his battles with retreads and budget
> low round draft picks and he sophmoricaly kisses off quality manpower
> to get "value" for them.

They probably have a better CB group now than they've had in nearly 10
years (Law and Otis Smith in '01 or Law and Poole in '03). McCourty
and Bodden are generally considered one of the better pairings in the
league. You're right about the defensive front seven though.
Definitely weak along the edges.


== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 12:28 pm
From: Michael


On Aug 16, 2:48 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
> On Aug 16, 12:46 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 15, 9:00 pm, JetsLife <JetsL...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > This is the secret the NFL, ESPN, etc. dare not speak of: the Pats are
> > > soft and will never win anything of note until they become tough. Yet
> > > because the Pats in so many ways keep a lid on things led by their
> > > pretty-boy QB, stake-holders dare not challenge their public persona.
>
> > > When they should. When they should see the Pats for what the
> > > contenders do: a soft outfit skating by on their past (cheating-
> > > based?) achievements.
>
> > > The Pats remain a top-heavy team: kill Brady, you kill the Pats.
>
> > you dont really have to kill brady, just stuff up their system like
> > the jets did in the playoffs. i agree that they need more tuffness on
> > defense just as much as i think they need a big star WR instead of WR
> > by retread committee.   they had that line with wilfork, seymour and
> > warren in front of big smart lb's.  it worked to stop the run on 1st
> > and 2nd.  then they had a nice one gap pressure package to put in on
> > third down. they also had elite skill at the cb position. now old beel-
> > a-chick thinks he can win all of his battles with retreads and budget
> > low round draft picks and he sophmoricaly kisses off quality manpower
> > to get "value" for them.
>
> They probably have a better CB group now than they've had in nearly 10
> years (Law and Otis Smith in '01 or Law and Poole in '03).  McCourty
> and Bodden are generally considered one of the better pairings in the
> league.  You're right about the defensive front seven though.
> Definitely weak along the edges.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

i liked one of their older backfields taken as a collective... law,
miloy, clay and hitchcock.

bodden and mccourty appear to be a nice pair, but i'd like to see them
put together another good season before i crown them

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Jeff Cumberland
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/71381e616f74a917?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 9:00 am
From: "JohnC\(TX\)"

"Still Roper" <mark_edwards_2000@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:f8b3241e-ba15-4061-8735-d26126e81ec1@eb1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>i know its preseason and all but this guy is getting open and making
> plays...yes...Jeff 'who' Cumberland...
>
> R

He did look good. He looked bigger than he is listed but I never saw that
potential in teh other stiffs Mulligann & Hartsock.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: With the addition of Ochocinco, the Pats still dont have a single WR
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/ffc431ec3cbc96a6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 8:51 am
From: MZ


On Aug 15, 11:40 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Aug 15, 4:58 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 15, 3:53 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 15, 2:20 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
> > > > Ocho and Welker are better players than Santonio.  
>
> > > Good grief... I've heard it all now. Ocho better than Santonio ???
> > > Good gravy, man...
>
> > > >Santonio can run a
> > > > fade, and that's about all he does that distinguishes him from other
> > > > middle-tier players.  Welker has led the NFL in receptions since he's
> > > > been with New England, and has been one of the YAC leaders which is
> > > > remarkable because you NEVER see that from underneath guys.  Ever.
> > > > How you consider him just another receiver is beyond me.  It really
> > > > is.
>
> > > > For a team with no receivers, the Pats passing offense sure was good
> > > > last year.  Explain that one.  It's all Brady?  Or is it all smoke and
> > > > mirrors?
>
> > > Good enough to be contained for a loss in their own house in the
> > > playoffs where they are never supposed to lose.  By a team with no
> > > pass rush and a patch work safety tandem.
>
> > Are you saying the Jets passing D was bad?  That's what it looks
> > like.  If that's the case (which I don't agree with...), what have
> > they done to fix it?
>
> > As I said already, the playoff game was a fluke.  That's what you
> > called it when the Pats demolished the Jets a few weeks earlier.  You
> > can't have it both ways.
>
> > The Pats offense was the top unit in the league last season.  Are you
> > saying it wasn't?  Do you honestly think that the offensive side of
> > the ball is where the Pats will struggle?
>
> > > > So, when the Pats, who finished ahead of the Jets last season by a
> > > > wide margin, improved their team by adding a guy of Santonio's caliber
> > > > (Ochocinco) on offense, a top tier DL who will be a contributor if his
> > > > head is on straight (Haynesworth), a capable DE at a need position
> > > > (Ellis), arguably the best OG in football (Mankins only played in 8
> > > > games last year), and a slew of guys from the draft, then I think it's
> > > > fair to say they're the frontrunner for the division again.
> > > > Especially since the other three teams didn't do anything of note to
> > > > improve their standing.  The Jets and Dolphins, in fact, lost more
> > > > than they gained.
>
> > > The Pats did not finish ahead of the Jets in the playoffs.  The Pats
> > > will probably win the div... AGAIN... And will go out early in the
> > > playoffs... AGAIN
>
> > Then I guess you're hoping that the Jets manage to be less sucky than
> > other teams?  It seems you're saying the Pats won't be a good enough
> > team to do anything, but that the Jets won't win the division and
> > therefore may not even earn a playoff berth.
>
> > You're all over the map here, Michael.  You say the Pats won't do
> > anything, and imply the Jets will, but then concede that they'll lose
> > the division to the Pats.  You talk about the Pats bringing in
> > "retreads" at the WR position, right after you laud the Jets for
> > signing Derrick Mason and Plaxico Burress.  You're being inconsistent.
>
> > > > PS -- the only thing Whitlock got right in that article is when he
> > > > said "I don't get it."  I just skimmed it and I found at least six
> > > > errors already.  Try one from a reputable journalist.  I'm sure there
> > > > are people with brains who think that those players won't be good.  I
> > > > asked you to find sources that claimed that Cromartie is a top 5 CB.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > Well... First you say that I am "the only one" that thinks BB's
> > > decisions are questionable.
>
> > No.  I said you're the only one that thinks that Cromartie is a top 5
> > CB.
>
> > >  I send you one of about ten opinion
> > > pieces I read, and what do you do ??? You discount it.  Ignoring the
> > > evidence would not work in court, but you seem to think it works here.
>
> > In court, I would only have to list all the errors Whitlock made
> > (Whitlock is a notoriously bad journalist...you should know better).
> > Such as where he said that Haynesworth hates playing NT in the 3-4 and
> > won't fit in it, which is all well and good, but he's obviously missed
> > the fact that the Pats have switched to a 4-3.
>
> > > Also... I pointed out that Cromartie's stats were not so impressive
> > > because he plays opposite of Revis.  You discount that too. What would
> > > it matter if I send you another "opinion piece" that talks up
> > > Cromartie as a top guy ???
>
> > I'd love to read it!  Probably written by Whitlock.
>
> > > Well... Here you go anyway...
>
> > > Who knows more about being an NFL CB, you or Cromartie ??? Let's use
> > > Cro's expert testimony, OK ???
>
> > > Quoted from ESPN article linked belowhttp://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/6825076/new-york-jets-anto...
>
> > > "Cromartie said he didn't pay attention to the Asomugha sweepstakes.
> > > Believe him? Asked why he has a chip on his shoulder, he said, "I
> > > still feel like I'm a No. 1 corner. ... Do I feel like Nnamdi is
> > > better than me? No. Do I think any other corner is better than me?
> > > No.""
>
> > > There you have it Mark... Expert testimony ranking Cromartie as a # 1
> > > CB.
>
> > I'm impressed.  Haynesworth said he's the best DL in history, I guess
> > the Pats got a steal, huh?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> some people like my sense of humor.  i not trying to compare jets with
> pats. the jets have nothing to do with my larger point  i just saying
> pats need some real stars on offense.  irving fryar but with better
> personal conduct :-)

Wait til you see Haynesworth at FB...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Turner has Broken Leg
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/32837cadc48cccd7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 16 2011 12:42 pm
From: John C TX


Turner broke his leg. You guys better be wrong about Ducasse. Can you
spell O'Hara?

X-No-Archive: Yes


Source: Offensive lineman Rob Turner breaks leg, will miss 8-10 weeks

BY Manish Mehta

The Daily News has learned that offensive lineman Rob Turner suffered
a broken leg in last night's preseason loss to the Texans. He is
scheduled to have surgery and will likely be out for 8-10 weeks,
according to a source. Gang Green is now thin along the line. Turner
was a versatile backup, who started at center for Nick Mangold
(stinger) last night. The Jets will likely be in the market for a
backup center now.

Turner was injured in the first quarter when Texans' rookie J.J. Watt
rolled up on him after beating Vlad Ducasse. Mark Sanchez stepped up
in the pocket before he was sacked. Watt, meanwhile, rolled up on
Turner from behind. The center's right leg was caught underneath Watt.

It's a fairly significant blow for an offensive line that was already
pretty thin. Ducasse is the primary backup guard and tackle. Robby
Felix, who played last night in relief of Turner, is now the backup
center.

Former Giants lineman Shaun O'Hara could be an option for Gang Green.
Although the Jets hadn't reached out to O'Hara as of noon on Tuesday,
it may make sense to add the three-time Pro Bowler. O'Hara, 34, has
already drawn interest from several AFC teams, including the Dolphins
and Ravens. He was released by the Giants in July.

The Jets have $6.69 million available under the cap, according to a
report on nfl.com.

NOTE: RB Joe McKnight suffered what is believed to have been a
concussion in the first half last night, according to a source.

For more Jets news, follow Manish Mehta on Twitter at http://twitter.com/TheJetsStream


==============================================================================

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