Thursday, March 31, 2011

Medarticles request for papers

Buzz It
dear friend,

kindly send me the following paper

1. Electrospun PHBV/collagen composite nanofibrous scaffolds for
tissue engineering
Wan Meng, Se-Yong Kim, Jiang Yuan, Jung Chul Kim, Oh Hyeong Kwon,
Naoki Kawazoe, Guoping Chen, Yoshihiro Ito, Inn-Kyu Kang
Department of Polymer Science, Kyungpook National University, Daegu
702-701, South Korea.
Journal of biomaterials science. Polymer edition. 02/2007; 18(1):
81-94.
2. Chapter 40. Nanocomposite Scaffolds for Tissue Engineering
Amit S . Mistry , Xinfeng Shi , and Antonios G . Mikos
Citation Information
Edited by Joseph D . Bronzino
CRC Press 2006
Pages 40-1–40-11
Print ISBN: 978-0-8493-2123-8
eBook ISBN: 978-1-4200-0387-1
DOI: 10.1201/9781420003871.ch40

3. Nanofibrous matrices of poly(lactic acid) and gelatin polymeric
blends for the improvement of cellular responses.
Kim HW, Yu HS, Lee HH.
J Biomed Mater Res A. 2008 Oct;87(1):25-32.
4. Fabrication and properties of PLLA-gelatin nanofibers by
electrospinning
Su Yan, Li Xiaoqiang, Liu Shuiping,
journal of Applied Polymer Science
Volume 117, Issue 1, pages 542–547, 5 July 2010
5. A bilayered elastomeric scaffold for tissue engineering of small
diameter vascular grafts


Lorenzo Soletti
Acta Biomaterialia
Volume 6, Issue 1, January 2010, Pages 110-122

thank you

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:13687 Institute of Nursing (ION), Dow University of Health Sciences (DUHS), Karachi

Buzz It

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alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets - 26 new messages in 8 topics - digest

Buzz It
alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets?hl=en

alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Cimini on Ryan - 6 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/e90d74625d2a65b6?hl=en
* Sanchez or Bust - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/e52473cd757b4aef?hl=en
* Is football a good value for dollar entertainment ??? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/6c3f9e9194bd3c6d?hl=en
* 2011 Draft. QB's are a "sucker bet" but this year ??? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/7fb3595003b99063?hl=en
* Interesting response to Goodell by the players - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/849506edc64037ac?hl=en
* Pennington Tears Knee Ligament. - 11 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/c37fcef1f738026e?hl=en
* Ainge making progress... - 4 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/e064da05a1e65241?hl=en
* free shipping paypal payment wholesale CLOTHING jacket T-shirt long sleeve
suit and hoody(Franklin Marshall,Monclereiderdown,nike,adidas,a&f,d&g,ed
harday,bape,bbc,lv,gucci,armani,polo, poul smith and so on)/http://www.24hours-
online.com/ - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/98816842e97b54be?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cimini on Ryan
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/e90d74625d2a65b6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 30 2011 8:29 pm
From: "Papa Carl"

"John C TX" <johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ce01dcdf-5890-4177-8cc6-d380793dd2c2@27g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
>> miserably...if I can start to predict plays successfully from my chair in
>> the den...then imagine what the opposing D is doing.
>
> PC, that we really need that old codger coaching?

My son is much better at it than I am....a lot of people think they are very
predictable and all the movement doesn't do a thing to cover it...I really
think that was the intention of the movement this past season...who
knows....these guys make so freakin much money they should do everything
right.


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 2:34 am
From: Grinch


On Mar 29, 12:16 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:

> the jets did not lose much when they lost woodhead.  woodhead was not
> going to be a good ball carrier for them.  when he went against a pro
> defense in the role of ball carrier, he got stuffed.  he looked good
> against third stringers as a ball carrier. he also got wrecked a few
> times picking up blockers. the jets had exactly just the right idea
> converting him to a receiver.  the problem is, the jets dont have a qb
> that can put a ball under the armpit of a guy running a fast short
> timing rout.  the patriots do.  hence... no loss to the jets, all gain
> for woodhead and the pats.  if the jets lost anything, they lost the $$
> $$ from woodhead jersey sales... not beign funny, either... i bet the
> pats sell more woodhead jerseys now than brady jerseys.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Man, ewww, those grapes are really sour.


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 2:38 am
From: Grinch


On Mar 23, 9:29 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:

> Ryan also said McKnight will get more work at running back.
>

Talk about setting a low hurdle -- could he possibly get less?


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 2:50 am
From: Grinch


On Mar 23, 9:29 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/4870/rex-doesnt-rule-...
>
> When Rex Ryan speaks, we listen.

Why, when he has every reason to lie about everything?

>
> • He downplayed the notion that the Jets need to draft a pass rusher.

"I want to remind every team located near us in the draft of our
obvious and partiucular need to draft a pass rusher..."

>
> Ryan also said McKnight will get more work at running back.

"Look, the only time we let McKnight play last year was with our third-
stringers against Buffalo's third-stringers in a game that didn't mean
anything to either team. Doesn't that tell you what we think of him?
As I said late during last season, we'd have cut him and kept Woodhead
if we hadn't sunk money into his contract while cutting Danny was
free.

"McNight's going to be reading this, right?"

> Rex was going to turn Ghoston into an all-pro too.

He had every confidence that Gholston was going to be a real
contributor, so he said this time last year. Do you think he believed
it?


== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 3:10 am
From: Grinch


On Mar 24, 7:39 am, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > My experience was that whenever a HC started touting some guy that had not
> > yet shown anything it was usually to create some smoke and always to
> > protect
> > the perception of their judgment for working with that player. I'll
> > believe
> > it when I see it. Rex was going to turn Ghoston into an all-pro too.
>
> gholston did not do a single thing even in a preseaon game.  how many
> yards did mcknight run for in the buff game ??? mcknight is not
> gholston.   i agree though, i will believe it when mcnight produces
> when it means somthing
> ----
> That Buffalo game was not even a preseason game.  In preseason guys are
> trying to win a spot on a team....in that game it as all over and nobody
> gave a crap.  You can see stuff like that on any Friday night, when the
> scrubs get to play in a high school game because the opponent is so bad.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Gholston is the biggest bust in Jets franchise history, period.

Blair Thomas was a "disappointment" bust, but he had 1,400 yards in
his first two seasons, averaged 4.5 a carry for the Jets, and averaged
5.0 a carry his first season.

Lam Jones was another disappointment bust, but was good enough to be a
regular player for five years averaging 17 a catch.

Gholston did *nothing*.

The only objectively comparable Jets bust in 50 years was John Huarte,
the Heisman Trophy QB the Jets signed the same year they sigend Namath
for almost as much money as Joe got, who did absolutely nothing for
the Jets and virtually nothing in the NFL after the Jets said goodbye
to him. But since the Jets were counting on Namath as their first
option anyhow, nobody's ever really cared.

So Gholston is #1 at something in Jets franchise history.

McKnight sure is a potential total bust on the basis of what he's
shown so far -- but "4th round bust" is hardly the same thing.


== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 3:12 am
From: Grinch


On Mar 24, 4:41 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> McKnight may or may not have been Rex. Like Gholston, it may be a case
> of circling the company wagons.
> --
> They guy was an embarrassment from the start...throwing up at a rookie
> camp?????  They invested a lot in this guy....he was the butt of jokes in
> camp.  They can't just not try to the utmost to salvage this
> investment...and all I'm saying is I'm not believing one word of that stuff
> Rex spoons out...I'll believe he is a real deal player when he shows
> it...and I do not think one game against possibly the worst team in the
> League shows it.  If some do...good for them, we think differently.

Remember, they traded up to get him.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sanchez or Bust
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/e52473cd757b4aef?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 2:01 am
From: Grinch


On Mar 23, 4:25 pm, JetsLife <JetsL...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Mar 19, 1:18 pm, "JKConey" <jkco...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "JetsLife" <JetsL...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:305e690b-4669-466e-9d95-763fa10fa4d3@d19g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > As I just wrote in another thread, I'll take him over any other QB.
>
> > > He is a winner and a great Jet.
>
> > > I wouldn't trade him for any other QB and their entire draft. I'd
> > > rather have someone who has walked in as a rookie and led us to near
> > > great heights.
>
> > > In Rexus I Trustus.
>
> >     He's a 50% passer and near the bottom of the bunch. Let's hope he gets
> > better.
>
> > --
>
> >www.myconeyislandmemories.com
>
> Indeed. But he has thus far proven to be an above-average winner
> which, ultimately, is the only stat that matters.
>
> 19-12 in the regular season, 4-2 in the playoffs.

Dude, tennis is played "singles". Football is a team game.

Just curious, give the percentage of the 19 and 4 wins that you
attribute to Sanchez, and the percentage that you attribute to all the
other players on the team.

> QB is about playing well enough, and well enough in the clutch, to
lead your team to victory.

Or, alternatively, not being *so* bad that the other 52 players can't
carry the team to a winning record anyhow.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is football a good value for dollar entertainment ???
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/6c3f9e9194bd3c6d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 2:11 am
From: Grinch

It's a *great* deal at home on a big screen TV with a Tivo to run all
the replays you want and record the whole thing.

Pretty good in a sports bar too, if it's a good sports bar and you're
with good people.

I saw near every game at Shea and a good number in the Meadowlands in
person. I rarely go now, and when I do it's an "oh, do I really have
to?" thing for one of the kids birthdays or something.

Not because of the cost, it's just not as good an experience. Not even
close. Maybe it's just me, partly because I've already got so many
games in the stands under my expanding belt -- enough!

IMHO YMMV


==============================================================================
TOPIC: 2011 Draft. QB's are a "sucker bet" but this year ???
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/7fb3595003b99063?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 2:32 am
From: Grinch


On Mar 22, 10:41 am, Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com> wrote:
> In article
> <d87689d1-e9b9-48dd-858d-d16ddf26c...@n2g2000prj.googlegroups.com>,
>
> 3) Most of the so called busts never played with a good OC, behind a
> good OL, with a good RB and stud WR. Who knows how many might have fared
> differently. There is a reason teams that pick in the top 5 frequently
> are picking there -- and it is not just that the team is a small market
> team.

Very wise words.

A really *bad* QB who throws one bounce-pass after another when not
throwing picks can sink a team by himself.

But once a QB reaches the capable level his numbers very largely
reflect the quality of the team around him (instead of vice versa, as
so may imagine, up to the point of QBs having personal won-lost
records).

Switch Archie Manning to the Walsh 49ers and Joe Montana to the Aints
of that era, today Archie is in the HoF and nobody remembers who
Montana was.

If Tom Brady had been drafted in the fifth round by the Detroit Lions
he might have gotten a chance to start for a season, maybe, if so
would've gone like 4-12, then would've lost the job to "savior" #1
pick Joey Harrington, and nobody here would've heard of him.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Interesting response to Goodell by the players
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/849506edc64037ac?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 12:07 pm
From: "Papa Carl"

"John C TX" <johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6df2f1b4-218c-44bb-b907-204e90b97c3b@n10g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
X-No-Archive: Yes

> > :-) While I would agree with you...I'm looking at the climate
> > now....ain't
> > the right weather. I wouldn't be surprised if the 2012 Republican
> > Candidate
> > didn't pledge to ban and outlaw all unions...we now have reverse
> > socialism
> > coming to us and the true free enterprise is called street crime.
>
> Papa, while no one should be screwed or taken advantage of the attempt
> of painting these govt workers as a union is problematic. The Eugene
> V Debs days are long gone and when people are out of work the
> aggrieved party isn't the teacher. It is the out of work fill n the
> blank, the underpaid, low or no benefit worker who shouldn't suffer
> while employees that we fund, don't suffer as well.
>
> This is about $. It is not only about fiscally bankrupt states but the
> Dems continuing a big source of revenue via union dues & the GOP
> trying to cut that off. Both sides think the other guy's money is
> always bad while their $ serves the public interest. I think it is
> all bad.
>
> Oh..OK...I'll tell that to the several out of work teachers I know...and
> the
> few I also know who were forced into retirement at a much reduced
> pension...You are right...the GOP is trying to cut off the major source of
> support that the Democratic Party has...plain and simple union busting. I
> am flatly opposed to those kinds of tactics. I would NEVER work in a
> school
> setting without some kind of protection from a union type group...you
> would
> be nuts to do that in this climate.

They are both wrong here and both sides overplayed their hands.

Govt work was accepted as being lower paying due to security &
pension. The artificial, i.e. borrowed prosperity, starting in 1980's
fooled pols into playing Santa Claus & changing that dynamic.
Teachers (goov't workers) are a very powerful group in all states and
when their benefits & pensions were disclosed they didn't have the
support as most don't enjoy that.

Walker wasn't honest either as he exempted police & fire from this.
9/11 & public sentiments make them holy cows. I ask why? Why is
education, public works less important than police?

Papa it isn't union busting. They just want to take away the
mandatory dues, i.e. Democratic political revenue. It strikes me as
anti-democratic to force someone to be a part of something. The Beck
decision made it clear that it was unconstitutional.

Like I said everyone points to the other guys' money. Buckley - Valeo
was one of the worst things that happened to this country as that is
always the excuse when govt funding of elections pop up. Then it was
a more left leaning court but the decision was anonymous. Now it
will be the right leaning court that will kill AZ public funding. I
say get rid of all the rules & just tell me where they got their money.

Can't agree...it's union busting....have you ever worked for any legnth of
time at serious manual labor? Construction? Something of that nature?
Have you ever had a public type job where you can have any tax payer come in
and go after you? If you go do that you may want some group to have your
back.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pennington Tears Knee Ligament.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/c37fcef1f738026e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 2:25 pm
From: Ritchie


Just heard on the radio that Chad tore a knee ligament during a
charity basketball game and will undergo surgery during the week. I
feel so bad for him, he seems to just have bad luck. He's a free agent
but I think its time to retire.


== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 2:58 pm
From: Ritchie


Link to article:


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=As3_VEYdD17pW5rXYQBylEJDubYF?slug=ap-penningtoninjury


== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 2:59 pm
From: Ritchie


It was just a pick up game, not a charity game as I stated before.


== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 6:50 pm
From: Michael


On Mar 31, 5:25 pm, Ritchie <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just heard on the radio that Chad tore a knee ligament during a
> charity basketball game and will undergo surgery during the week. I
> feel so bad for him, he seems to just have bad luck. He's a free agent
> but I think its time to retire.

with all his joint injuries, it sounds like his connecting tissues are
made of jello. I'd bet it you took one of his ligaments and did a
tensile strenght test with it, it would tear much sooner than an
average ligament woud. it is more than just being clumsy or bad
luck. he's got weak tissues.


== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 6:53 pm
From: "Papa Carl"

"Ritchie" <ritchie1965@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1efe9711-caba-4477-ae68-49a978d54055@l5g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...
> Just heard on the radio that Chad tore a knee ligament during a
> charity basketball game and will undergo surgery during the week. I
> feel so bad for him, he seems to just have bad luck. He's a free agent
> but I think its time to retire.

He has more than bad luck...he has to have stiff or brittle joints. A lot
of study has been done on why one guy can take a certain hit and not have
something break and another athlete has terrible results...joints that are
not flexible is a major issue. He is tough, I loved him for that...but he
is very breakable too.


== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 6:54 pm
From: "Papa Carl"

"Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:52244593-fbf3-49f6-9c07-013e1122221f@d12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 31, 5:25 pm, Ritchie <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just heard on the radio that Chad tore a knee ligament during a
> charity basketball game and will undergo surgery during the week. I
> feel so bad for him, he seems to just have bad luck. He's a free agent
> but I think its time to retire.

with all his joint injuries, it sounds like his connecting tissues are
made of jello. I'd bet it you took one of his ligaments and did a
tensile strenght test with it, it would tear much sooner than an
average ligament woud. it is more than just being clumsy or bad
luck. he's got weak tissues.

Jello would be good for tissue...it stretches...his are very brittle.


== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 7:37 pm
From: Michael


On Mar 31, 9:54 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:52244593-fbf3-49f6-9c07-013e1122221f@d12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 31, 5:25 pm, Ritchie <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Just heard on the radio that Chad tore a knee ligament during a
> > charity basketball game and will undergo surgery during the week. I
> > feel so bad for him, he seems to just have bad luck. He's a free agent
> > but I think its time to retire.
>
> with all his joint injuries, it sounds like his connecting tissues are
> made of jello.  I'd bet it you took one of his ligaments and did a
> tensile strenght test with it, it would tear much sooner than an
> average ligament woud.  it is more than just being clumsy or bad
> luck.  he's got weak tissues.
>
> Jello would be good for tissue...it stretches...his are very brittle.

Jello wiggles, but it is not cohesive. He may not be brittle. He may
not be cohesive. Either way, he's not made of durable stuff.


== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 7:55 pm
From: "Papa Carl"

"Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:9939dd47-97e2-4177-8793-59df45ccaa71@l18g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 31, 9:54 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:52244593-fbf3-49f6-9c07-013e1122221f@d12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 31, 5:25 pm, Ritchie <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Just heard on the radio that Chad tore a knee ligament during a
> > charity basketball game and will undergo surgery during the week. I
> > feel so bad for him, he seems to just have bad luck. He's a free agent
> > but I think its time to retire.
>
> with all his joint injuries, it sounds like his connecting tissues are
> made of jello. I'd bet it you took one of his ligaments and did a
> tensile strenght test with it, it would tear much sooner than an
> average ligament woud. it is more than just being clumsy or bad
> luck. he's got weak tissues.
>
> Jello would be good for tissue...it stretches...his are very brittle.

Jello wiggles, but it is not cohesive. He may not be brittle. He may
not be cohesive. Either way, he's not made of durable stuff.

Hey...all I'm repeating is stuff the docs talk about...the inability of a
joint to stretch and thus being brittle.


== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 8:54 pm
From: "Papa Carl"

"Papa Carl" <papa.carl@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:JbKdncRPzqwBowjQnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:9939dd47-97e2-4177-8793-59df45ccaa71@l18g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 31, 9:54 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:52244593-fbf3-49f6-9c07-013e1122221f@d12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
>> On Mar 31, 5:25 pm, Ritchie <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Just heard on the radio that Chad tore a knee ligament during a
>> > charity basketball game and will undergo surgery during the week. I
>> > feel so bad for him, he seems to just have bad luck. He's a free agent
>> > but I think its time to retire.
>>
>> with all his joint injuries, it sounds like his connecting tissues are
>> made of jello. I'd bet it you took one of his ligaments and did a
>> tensile strenght test with it, it would tear much sooner than an
>> average ligament woud. it is more than just being clumsy or bad
>> luck. he's got weak tissues.
>>
>> Jello would be good for tissue...it stretches...his are very brittle.
>
> Jello wiggles, but it is not cohesive. He may not be brittle. He may
> not be cohesive. Either way, he's not made of durable stuff.
>
> Hey...all I'm repeating is stuff the docs talk about...the inability of a
> joint to stretch and thus being brittle.

Tight or loose may be a better reference.


== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 9:11 pm
From: Michael


On Mar 31, 11:54 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:JbKdncRPzqwBowjQnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >news:9939dd47-97e2-4177-8793-59df45ccaa71@l18g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
> > On Mar 31, 9:54 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> >>news:52244593-fbf3-49f6-9c07-013e1122221f@d12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Mar 31, 5:25 pm, Ritchie <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > Just heard on the radio that Chad tore a knee ligament during a
> >> > charity basketball game and will undergo surgery during the week. I
> >> > feel so bad for him, he seems to just have bad luck. He's a free agent
> >> > but I think its time to retire.
>
> >> with all his joint injuries, it sounds like his connecting tissues are
> >> made of jello. I'd bet it you took one of his ligaments and did a
> >> tensile strenght test with it, it would tear much sooner than an
> >> average ligament woud. it is more than just being clumsy or bad
> >> luck. he's got weak tissues.
>
> >> Jello would be good for tissue...it stretches...his are very brittle.
>
> > Jello wiggles, but it is not cohesive.  He may not be brittle.  He may
> > not be cohesive. Either way, he's not made of durable stuff.
>
> > Hey...all I'm repeating is stuff the docs talk about...the inability of a
> > joint to stretch and thus being brittle.
>
> Tight or loose may be a better reference.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

either way... it sure does seem like he's got joint problems...


== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 9:46 pm
From: "Papa Carl"

"Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:61bfc84e-209e-482c-868f-61c41a2d7089@p16g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 31, 11:54 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:JbKdncRPzqwBowjQnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >news:9939dd47-97e2-4177-8793-59df45ccaa71@l18g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
> > On Mar 31, 9:54 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> >>news:52244593-fbf3-49f6-9c07-013e1122221f@d12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Mar 31, 5:25 pm, Ritchie <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > Just heard on the radio that Chad tore a knee ligament during a
> >> > charity basketball game and will undergo surgery during the week. I
> >> > feel so bad for him, he seems to just have bad luck. He's a free
> >> > agent
> >> > but I think its time to retire.
>
> >> with all his joint injuries, it sounds like his connecting tissues are
> >> made of jello. I'd bet it you took one of his ligaments and did a
> >> tensile strenght test with it, it would tear much sooner than an
> >> average ligament woud. it is more than just being clumsy or bad
> >> luck. he's got weak tissues.
>
> >> Jello would be good for tissue...it stretches...his are very brittle.
>
> > Jello wiggles, but it is not cohesive. He may not be brittle. He may
> > not be cohesive. Either way, he's not made of durable stuff.
>
> > Hey...all I'm repeating is stuff the docs talk about...the inability of
> > a
> > joint to stretch and thus being brittle.
>
> Tight or loose may be a better reference.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

either way... it sure does seem like he's got joint problems...

He needs to collect stamps or become a broadcaster...or better yet...come
coach Jets QB's.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ainge making progress...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/e064da05a1e65241?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 3:03 pm
From: MZ


On Mar 30, 8:18 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:72126ffe-3145-45a8-b9b0-012fea0023b9@f11g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 30, 5:25 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:ee1e01c0-9b3f-424c-a3da-f632f64ea644@v16g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
> > On Mar 30, 10:49 am, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > >news:949feb53-7000-44b8-bcba-bdf27852ff46@w9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Mar 30, 10:17 am, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:6291483a-fb44-4e61-bd4a-517ab9318d00@s3g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
> > > > On Mar 29, 10:55 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:a0c89fb0-937f-4a9a-a43d-84797bc6eace@cu4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > >http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/New-York-Jets-QB-Erik-Ainge-says-h...
>
> > > > > > I hope he gets it cleaned up and comes back. I liked the way he
> > > > > > looked. Raw, but big upside. Perhaps he can get back to football
> > > > > > now.
>
> > > > > With bi-polar disorder it is perhaps not a good place for him to be.
> > > > > I
> > > > > hope
> > > > > he thinks about his health and long term future first. For him,
> > > > > football
> > > > > has to be a distant second priority. I hope he makes it.
>
> > > > papa... one other thing to consider. i am positive that there were
> > > > people that have been miss diagnosed with things like bi-polar at the
> > > > same time that they are fighting a substanse abuse. a lot of things
> > > > that booze and drugs due to you mimmic the effects of things like bi-
> > > > polar. i'm not disputing his doctors, but i am always a tad bit
> > > > skeptical about mental illness being diagnosed along with drug or
> > > > booze addiction. lets keep in mind, ainge made it through grade
> > > > school, high school and college all the way to the pros with NO help.
> > > > Now he has help. I dont see why he wont be able to continue even if
> > > > he actually has bi-polar. Also... There are several kinds of bi-
> > > > polar. Some being the type with long periods of ups where the person
> > > > does wild stuff like spending, drugs and all manner of chance taking,
> > > > followed by long periods of serious depression. Others have the same
> > > > length of periods but with much less intensity. Then there is the bi-
> > > > polar that has swings that dont last as long. One person is not like
> > > > the other, and Ainge may not be that bad off. Some people with bi-
> > > > polar are functional without lithium. Anti-Depresants alone can help
> > > > in some cases. Again... Let him stay clean for a long time and than
> > > > get evaluated. You know what booze and drugs to the nervous system.
> > > > Even the best Psch on the planet would have a hard time making an air
> > > > tight diagnosis. I bet he plays again and with help, is able to do it
> > > > without booze. Hard, but not impossible.
>
> > > > The most common comorbidity of issues is bi-polar disorder and a
> > > > substance
> > > > disorder. In many cases it is the use of a depressant drug to get back
> > > > down
> > > > again after a manic episode. Other times it may be use of stimulant
> > > > drugs
> > > > to prolong a manic episode. The difficulty is that during a manic
> > > > period
> > > > the individual often feels invincible and is very resistant to any
> > > > suggestion that something could be wrong. The disease itself is an up
> > > > and
> > > > down cycle usually...but not always. He has been in treatment long
> > > > enough
> > > > now, and with good enough doctors to figure out what is wrong with
> > > > him.
> > > > Yes, bi-polar disorder exists in various forms...like Bi-Polar I and
> > > > Bi-Polar II and then with a lot of qualifiers. If you are really
> > > > interested
> > > > you can look it up in The DSM IV Manual. It isn't so difficult that it
> > > > can't be followed and understood. He is in the age category where the
> > > > disease usually presents itself in full bloom. A lot of typical cases
> > > > do
> > > > not get recognized as such during adolesence and then become evident
> > > > in
> > > > early adulthood. You are also right that he needs to be clean for a
> > > > period
> > > > of time to be certain about everything...especially with the array of
> > > > drugs
> > > > he alluded to. However, he has been in treatment for 8 months, and
> > > > that
> > > > should have gotten him to a point where they more fully understand
> > > > what
> > > > is
> > > > wrong with him. Did any of the articles indicate where he was being
> > > > treated? 21 years ago when I left coaching I went in to my second
> > > > career
> > > > which was in behavioral heath. I had been taking courses and securing
> > > > a
> > > > second MA level degree over a period of time. I had also taken a night
> > > > job
> > > > after football season working in a crisis center. Then I made the
> > > > switch
> > > > and that is what I did since then. I had the experience of working
> > > > with
> > > > a
> > > > lot of young people with dual diagnosis issues...substance abuse /
> > > > dependence and mental illness. It is a very hard road to walk for
> > > > them.
> > > > I
> > > > certainly wish him well...and for all those who I'm sure will be
> > > > judging...the bi-polar issues definitely foster substance use and
> > > > abuse.
>
> > > no question that biologial mental illness and mental trauma leads a
> > > lot of people to "self medicate". that is basic. i am not disputing
> > > that he may have bi-polar. i am saying two things here. bi-polar and
> > > substance abuse is so commonly linked, that medical professionals go
> > > off half cocked. i know it for a fact. a guy i know with a booze
> > > problem got miss diagnosed with bi-polar. two years after he started
> > > taking drugs for b-polar and was clean from booze, another dr.
> > > evlauated him and told him he did not have bi-polar but had been
> > > suffering from damage to his nervous system from booze. it just looked
> > > like bi-polar. they took him off his lithium and there were no sings
> > > of bi-polar. i also know a woman who is bi-polar. she takes meds and
> > > works in a high pressure business job. years go, she had all manner
> > > of problems in her life, but since she got diagnosed, all is under
> > > control. why not ainge too ??? again... if the guy got through life
> > > playing ball up to now, he can play again and be better for it. i
> > > dont agree that the stimulation of a competitive career WONT be better
> > > for him than basket weaving. it depends on the paticularites of his
> > > condition.
>
> > > This is where you lose people...you go from playing Pro Football to
> > > basket
> > > weaving...come on...
>
> > yeah, it was an asshole remark, but just making a point. he may very
> > well be able to play on the big stage even if he does have real
> > bipolar. to a pro ball player, not beign on the field is virtual
> > basket weaving.
>
> > >to your other point...a LOT of bi-polar diagnoses are
> > > probably way off base...it is popular these days :-)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > again... psych not my area, but it seems like some diagnosis and psych
> > drugs these days are just in fassion. i suppose better than the dark
> > ages 30-50 years ago or so when witch doctors were at work on psych
> > cases.
>
> > IMHO...and afteer working inside a psych hospital...a lot of guys who get
> > a
> > psych diagnosis and "help" should have gone to jail, prison and done some
> > serious time, but in so many cases they get a pass because someone,
> > somehow
> > gets them a diagnosis and they are of the right "type" to skate on what
> > others may wind up doing time for. I think there are a lot of mentally ill
> > people in prison, but I do not think every criminal does what they do
> > because they are mentally ill. I think a lot of psychiatrists and other
> > practitioners tend to want to have a reason why someone does what they do
> > and even turns to drugs. In the cultural mindset it is easy to do that
> > when
> > they are dealing with a person from an extremely deprived, and often
> > violent
> > environment. It is harder for them to come up with a reason when they are
> > working with a kid that has had it all...or appears to have. This stuff is
> > all an outgrowth of the "free will" notions and they don't want to admit
> > that some stuff just happens or that someone is a victim of their genetics
> > or in the case of athletes and other "special" kids they get too much
> > given
> > to them and are given too many passes. Life is very often quite difficult
> > and it is not always meant to be fun...try and sell that to some folks.-
> > Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> i'd gather that the mental health field is part science and part
> craft.  too many shades of gray for absolutes or cook book measures.
>
> Same patient two different psychiatrists often means two different
> diagnoses....or different days when the patient presents...it is not a hard
> science

It is a hard science. It's just in its infancy. We really don't know
much about it. In the future, people will probably look at our level
of understanding and strategies of treatment the way we look at
bloodletting now.


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 6:59 pm
From: "Papa Carl"

"MZ" <forums@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote in message
news:b31cac3e-0655-4916-9fdd-43f603ed1783@v31g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 30, 8:18 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:72126ffe-3145-45a8-b9b0-012fea0023b9@f11g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 30, 5:25 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:ee1e01c0-9b3f-424c-a3da-f632f64ea644@v16g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
> > On Mar 30, 10:49 am, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > >news:949feb53-7000-44b8-bcba-bdf27852ff46@w9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Mar 30, 10:17 am, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:6291483a-fb44-4e61-bd4a-517ab9318d00@s3g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
> > > > On Mar 29, 10:55 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:a0c89fb0-937f-4a9a-a43d-84797bc6eace@cu4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > >http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/New-York-Jets-QB-Erik-Ainge-says-h...
>
> > > > > > I hope he gets it cleaned up and comes back. I liked the way he
> > > > > > looked. Raw, but big upside. Perhaps he can get back to football
> > > > > > now.
>
> > > > > With bi-polar disorder it is perhaps not a good place for him to
> > > > > be.
> > > > > I
> > > > > hope
> > > > > he thinks about his health and long term future first. For him,
> > > > > football
> > > > > has to be a distant second priority. I hope he makes it.
>
> > > > papa... one other thing to consider. i am positive that there were
> > > > people that have been miss diagnosed with things like bi-polar at
> > > > the
> > > > same time that they are fighting a substanse abuse. a lot of things
> > > > that booze and drugs due to you mimmic the effects of things like
> > > > bi-
> > > > polar. i'm not disputing his doctors, but i am always a tad bit
> > > > skeptical about mental illness being diagnosed along with drug or
> > > > booze addiction. lets keep in mind, ainge made it through grade
> > > > school, high school and college all the way to the pros with NO
> > > > help.
> > > > Now he has help. I dont see why he wont be able to continue even if
> > > > he actually has bi-polar. Also... There are several kinds of bi-
> > > > polar. Some being the type with long periods of ups where the person
> > > > does wild stuff like spending, drugs and all manner of chance
> > > > taking,
> > > > followed by long periods of serious depression. Others have the same
> > > > length of periods but with much less intensity. Then there is the
> > > > bi-
> > > > polar that has swings that dont last as long. One person is not like
> > > > the other, and Ainge may not be that bad off. Some people with bi-
> > > > polar are functional without lithium. Anti-Depresants alone can help
> > > > in some cases. Again... Let him stay clean for a long time and than
> > > > get evaluated. You know what booze and drugs to the nervous system.
> > > > Even the best Psch on the planet would have a hard time making an
> > > > air
> > > > tight diagnosis. I bet he plays again and with help, is able to do
> > > > it
> > > > without booze. Hard, but not impossible.
>
> > > > The most common comorbidity of issues is bi-polar disorder and a
> > > > substance
> > > > disorder. In many cases it is the use of a depressant drug to get
> > > > back
> > > > down
> > > > again after a manic episode. Other times it may be use of stimulant
> > > > drugs
> > > > to prolong a manic episode. The difficulty is that during a manic
> > > > period
> > > > the individual often feels invincible and is very resistant to any
> > > > suggestion that something could be wrong. The disease itself is an
> > > > up
> > > > and
> > > > down cycle usually...but not always. He has been in treatment long
> > > > enough
> > > > now, and with good enough doctors to figure out what is wrong with
> > > > him.
> > > > Yes, bi-polar disorder exists in various forms...like Bi-Polar I and
> > > > Bi-Polar II and then with a lot of qualifiers. If you are really
> > > > interested
> > > > you can look it up in The DSM IV Manual. It isn't so difficult that
> > > > it
> > > > can't be followed and understood. He is in the age category where
> > > > the
> > > > disease usually presents itself in full bloom. A lot of typical
> > > > cases
> > > > do
> > > > not get recognized as such during adolesence and then become evident
> > > > in
> > > > early adulthood. You are also right that he needs to be clean for a
> > > > period
> > > > of time to be certain about everything...especially with the array
> > > > of
> > > > drugs
> > > > he alluded to. However, he has been in treatment for 8 months, and
> > > > that
> > > > should have gotten him to a point where they more fully understand
> > > > what
> > > > is
> > > > wrong with him. Did any of the articles indicate where he was being
> > > > treated? 21 years ago when I left coaching I went in to my second
> > > > career
> > > > which was in behavioral heath. I had been taking courses and
> > > > securing
> > > > a
> > > > second MA level degree over a period of time. I had also taken a
> > > > night
> > > > job
> > > > after football season working in a crisis center. Then I made the
> > > > switch
> > > > and that is what I did since then. I had the experience of working
> > > > with
> > > > a
> > > > lot of young people with dual diagnosis issues...substance abuse /
> > > > dependence and mental illness. It is a very hard road to walk for
> > > > them.
> > > > I
> > > > certainly wish him well...and for all those who I'm sure will be
> > > > judging...the bi-polar issues definitely foster substance use and
> > > > abuse.
>
> > > no question that biologial mental illness and mental trauma leads a
> > > lot of people to "self medicate". that is basic. i am not disputing
> > > that he may have bi-polar. i am saying two things here. bi-polar and
> > > substance abuse is so commonly linked, that medical professionals go
> > > off half cocked. i know it for a fact. a guy i know with a booze
> > > problem got miss diagnosed with bi-polar. two years after he started
> > > taking drugs for b-polar and was clean from booze, another dr.
> > > evlauated him and told him he did not have bi-polar but had been
> > > suffering from damage to his nervous system from booze. it just looked
> > > like bi-polar. they took him off his lithium and there were no sings
> > > of bi-polar. i also know a woman who is bi-polar. she takes meds and
> > > works in a high pressure business job. years go, she had all manner
> > > of problems in her life, but since she got diagnosed, all is under
> > > control. why not ainge too ??? again... if the guy got through life
> > > playing ball up to now, he can play again and be better for it. i
> > > dont agree that the stimulation of a competitive career WONT be better
> > > for him than basket weaving. it depends on the paticularites of his
> > > condition.
>
> > > This is where you lose people...you go from playing Pro Football to
> > > basket
> > > weaving...come on...
>
> > yeah, it was an asshole remark, but just making a point. he may very
> > well be able to play on the big stage even if he does have real
> > bipolar. to a pro ball player, not beign on the field is virtual
> > basket weaving.
>
> > >to your other point...a LOT of bi-polar diagnoses are
> > > probably way off base...it is popular these days :-)- Hide quoted
> > > text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > again... psych not my area, but it seems like some diagnosis and psych
> > drugs these days are just in fassion. i suppose better than the dark
> > ages 30-50 years ago or so when witch doctors were at work on psych
> > cases.
>
> > IMHO...and afteer working inside a psych hospital...a lot of guys who
> > get
> > a
> > psych diagnosis and "help" should have gone to jail, prison and done
> > some
> > serious time, but in so many cases they get a pass because someone,
> > somehow
> > gets them a diagnosis and they are of the right "type" to skate on what
> > others may wind up doing time for. I think there are a lot of mentally
> > ill
> > people in prison, but I do not think every criminal does what they do
> > because they are mentally ill. I think a lot of psychiatrists and other
> > practitioners tend to want to have a reason why someone does what they
> > do
> > and even turns to drugs. In the cultural mindset it is easy to do that
> > when
> > they are dealing with a person from an extremely deprived, and often
> > violent
> > environment. It is harder for them to come up with a reason when they
> > are
> > working with a kid that has had it all...or appears to have. This stuff
> > is
> > all an outgrowth of the "free will" notions and they don't want to admit
> > that some stuff just happens or that someone is a victim of their
> > genetics
> > or in the case of athletes and other "special" kids they get too much
> > given
> > to them and are given too many passes. Life is very often quite
> > difficult
> > and it is not always meant to be fun...try and sell that to some folks.-
> > Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> i'd gather that the mental health field is part science and part
> craft. too many shades of gray for absolutes or cook book measures.
>
> Same patient two different psychiatrists often means two different
> diagnoses....or different days when the patient presents...it is not a
> hard
> science

It is a hard science. It's just in its infancy. We really don't know
much about it. In the future, people will probably look at our level
of understanding and strategies of treatment the way we look at
bloodletting now.

Mark...my reference is to the current system of diagnosing something. DSM IV
and how it gets used is not hard science. I completely agree that in the
future it will be. Also, in the case of depression...I personally think it
is a crime that so many suffer from it...there is enough science there that
puts it in the category of high blood pressure...nobody should die from it.
This stuff goes untreated and that is a crime. You are 100% correct...in
the future..but right now...this culture does not even recognize parity of
behavioral health issues. Somebody finally asks for help with a serious
alcohol addiction and his insurance company gives him three days of
treatment. IF...a big IF we used the tools available it would be a lot more
scientific...most treatment centers don't even test for steroids..not even
when all of the signs are there. I agree with you...it is in it's
infancy..but a lot of what we do have available does not get used.


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 9:07 pm
From: MZ


On Mar 31, 9:59 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "MZ" <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote in message
>
> news:b31cac3e-0655-4916-9fdd-43f603ed1783@v31g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 30, 8:18 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:72126ffe-3145-45a8-b9b0-012fea0023b9@f11g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...
> > On Mar 30, 5:25 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > >news:ee1e01c0-9b3f-424c-a3da-f632f64ea644@v16g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Mar 30, 10:49 am, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:949feb53-7000-44b8-bcba-bdf27852ff46@w9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> > > > On Mar 30, 10:17 am, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:6291483a-fb44-4e61-bd4a-517ab9318d00@s3g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > On Mar 29, 10:55 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > > >news:a0c89fb0-937f-4a9a-a43d-84797bc6eace@cu4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > >http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/New-York-Jets-QB-Erik-Ainge-says-h...
>
> > > > > > > I hope he gets it cleaned up and comes back. I liked the way he
> > > > > > > looked. Raw, but big upside. Perhaps he can get back to football
> > > > > > > now.
>
> > > > > > With bi-polar disorder it is perhaps not a good place for him to
> > > > > > be.
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > hope
> > > > > > he thinks about his health and long term future first. For him,
> > > > > > football
> > > > > > has to be a distant second priority. I hope he makes it.
>
> > > > > papa... one other thing to consider. i am positive that there were
> > > > > people that have been miss diagnosed with things like bi-polar at
> > > > > the
> > > > > same time that they are fighting a substanse abuse. a lot of things
> > > > > that booze and drugs due to you mimmic the effects of things like
> > > > > bi-
> > > > > polar. i'm not disputing his doctors, but i am always a tad bit
> > > > > skeptical about mental illness being diagnosed along with drug or
> > > > > booze addiction. lets keep in mind, ainge made it through grade
> > > > > school, high school and college all the way to the pros with NO
> > > > > help.
> > > > > Now he has help. I dont see why he wont be able to continue even if
> > > > > he actually has bi-polar. Also... There are several kinds of bi-
> > > > > polar. Some being the type with long periods of ups where the person
> > > > > does wild stuff like spending, drugs and all manner of chance
> > > > > taking,
> > > > > followed by long periods of serious depression. Others have the same
> > > > > length of periods but with much less intensity. Then there is the
> > > > > bi-
> > > > > polar that has swings that dont last as long. One person is not like
> > > > > the other, and Ainge may not be that bad off. Some people with bi-
> > > > > polar are functional without lithium. Anti-Depresants alone can help
> > > > > in some cases. Again... Let him stay clean for a long time and than
> > > > > get evaluated. You know what booze and drugs to the nervous system.
> > > > > Even the best Psch on the planet would have a hard time making an
> > > > > air
> > > > > tight diagnosis. I bet he plays again and with help, is able to do
> > > > > it
> > > > > without booze. Hard, but not impossible.
>
> > > > > The most common comorbidity of issues is bi-polar disorder and a
> > > > > substance
> > > > > disorder. In many cases it is the use of a depressant drug to get
> > > > > back
> > > > > down
> > > > > again after a manic episode. Other times it may be use of stimulant
> > > > > drugs
> > > > > to prolong a manic episode. The difficulty is that during a manic
> > > > > period
> > > > > the individual often feels invincible and is very resistant to any
> > > > > suggestion that something could be wrong. The disease itself is an
> > > > > up
> > > > > and
> > > > > down cycle usually...but not always. He has been in treatment long
> > > > > enough
> > > > > now, and with good enough doctors to figure out what is wrong with
> > > > > him.
> > > > > Yes, bi-polar disorder exists in various forms...like Bi-Polar I and
> > > > > Bi-Polar II and then with a lot of qualifiers. If you are really
> > > > > interested
> > > > > you can look it up in The DSM IV Manual. It isn't so difficult that
> > > > > it
> > > > > can't be followed and understood. He is in the age category where
> > > > > the
> > > > > disease usually presents itself in full bloom. A lot of typical
> > > > > cases
> > > > > do
> > > > > not get recognized as such during adolesence and then become evident
> > > > > in
> > > > > early adulthood. You are also right that he needs to be clean for a
> > > > > period
> > > > > of time to be certain about everything...especially with the array
> > > > > of
> > > > > drugs
> > > > > he alluded to. However, he has been in treatment for 8 months, and
> > > > > that
> > > > > should have gotten him to a point where they more fully understand
> > > > > what
> > > > > is
> > > > > wrong with him. Did any of the articles indicate where he was being
> > > > > treated? 21 years ago when I left coaching I went in to my second
> > > > > career
> > > > > which was in behavioral heath. I had been taking courses and
> > > > > securing
> > > > > a
> > > > > second MA level degree over a period of time. I had also taken a
> > > > > night
> > > > > job
> > > > > after football season working in a crisis center. Then I made the
> > > > > switch
> > > > > and that is what I did since then. I had the experience of working
> > > > > with
> > > > > a
> > > > > lot of young people with dual diagnosis issues...substance abuse /
> > > > > dependence and mental illness. It is a very hard road to walk for
> > > > > them.
> > > > > I
> > > > > certainly wish him well...and for all those who I'm sure will be
> > > > > judging...the bi-polar issues definitely foster substance use and
> > > > > abuse.
>
> > > > no question that biologial mental illness and mental trauma leads a
> > > > lot of people to "self medicate". that is basic. i am not disputing
> > > > that he may have bi-polar. i am saying two things here. bi-polar and
> > > > substance abuse is so commonly linked, that medical professionals go
> > > > off half cocked. i know it for a fact. a guy i know with a booze
> > > > problem got miss diagnosed with bi-polar. two years after he started
> > > > taking drugs for b-polar and was clean from booze, another dr.
> > > > evlauated him and told him he did not have bi-polar but had been
> > > > suffering from damage to his nervous system from booze. it just looked
> > > > like bi-polar. they took him off his lithium and there were no sings
> > > > of bi-polar. i also know a woman who is bi-polar. she takes meds and
> > > > works in a high pressure business job. years go, she had all manner
> > > > of problems in her life, but since she got diagnosed, all is under
> > > > control. why not ainge too ??? again... if the guy got through life
> > > > playing ball up to now, he can play again and be better for it. i
> > > > dont agree that the stimulation of a competitive career WONT be better
> > > > for him than basket weaving. it depends on the paticularites of his
> > > > condition.
>
> > > > This is where you lose people...you go from playing Pro Football to
> > > > basket
> > > > weaving...come on...
>
> > > yeah, it was an asshole remark, but just making a point. he may very
> > > well be able to play on the big stage even if he does have real
> > > bipolar. to a pro ball player, not beign on the field is virtual
> > > basket weaving.
>
> > > >to your other point...a LOT of bi-polar diagnoses are
> > > > probably way off base...it is popular these days :-)- Hide quoted
> > > > text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > again... psych not my area, but it seems like some diagnosis and psych
> > > drugs these days are just in fassion. i suppose better than the dark
> > > ages 30-50 years ago or so when witch doctors were at work on psych
> > > cases.
>
> > > IMHO...and afteer working inside a psych hospital...a lot of guys who
> > > get
> > > a
> > > psych diagnosis and "help" should have gone to jail, prison and done
> > > some
> > > serious time, but in so many cases they get a pass because someone,
> > > somehow
> > > gets them a diagnosis and they are of the right "type" to skate on what
> > > others may wind up doing time for. I think there are a lot of mentally
> > > ill
> > > people in prison, but I do not think every criminal does what they do
> > > because they are mentally ill. I think a lot of psychiatrists and other
> > > practitioners tend to want to have a reason why someone does what they
> > > do
> > > and even turns to drugs. In the cultural mindset it is easy to do that
> > > when
> > > they are dealing with a person from an extremely deprived, and often
> > > violent
> > > environment. It is harder for them to come up with a reason when they
> > > are
> > > working with a kid that has had it all...or appears to have. This stuff
> > > is
> > > all an outgrowth of the "free will" notions and they don't want to admit
> > > that some stuff just happens or that someone is a victim of their
> > > genetics
> > > or in the case of athletes and other "special" kids they get too much
> > > given
> > > to them and are given too many passes. Life is very often quite
> > > difficult
> > > and it is not always meant to be fun...try and sell that to some folks.-
> > > Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > i'd gather that the mental health field is part science and part
> > craft. too many shades of gray for absolutes or cook book measures.
>
> > Same patient two different psychiatrists often means two different
> > diagnoses....or different days when the patient presents...it is not a
> > hard
> > science
>
> It is a hard science.  It's just in its infancy.  We really don't know
> much about it.  In the future, people will probably look at our level
> of understanding and strategies of treatment the way we look at
> bloodletting now.
>
> Mark...my reference is to the current system of diagnosing something. DSM IV
> and how it gets used is not hard science. I completely agree that in the
> future it will be.  Also, in the case of depression...I personally think it
> is a crime that so many suffer from it...there is enough science there that
> puts it in the category of high blood pressure...nobody should die from it.
> This stuff goes untreated and that is a crime.  You are 100% correct...in
> the future..but right now...this culture does not even recognize parity of
> behavioral health issues.  Somebody finally asks for help with a serious
> alcohol addiction and his insurance company gives him three days of
> treatment.  IF...a big IF we used the tools available it would be a lot more
> scientific...most treatment centers don't even test for steroids..not even
> when all of the signs are there.  I agree with you...it is in it's
> infancy..but a lot of what we do have available does not get used.

We can't let the insurance companies be the arbiter of good and bad
medical policy. Their goals run counter to that a lot of the time. I
know what you meant though. I just don't think we should make
distinctions like "hard science" or, as Michael was putting it,
"biological" mental issues. It summons dualism, which is a crappy
road to go down. I think a better description is that some diagnosis
and treatment are very post hoc. Lots of research money goes into
trying to fix that, but like I said, we're really in the infancy of
our understanding of mental health and cognitive function in general.
Science can, and often does, solve a lot of these issues, but it will
take time.


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 9:45 pm
From: "Papa Carl"

"MZ" <forums@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote in message
news:190a9ca9-9666-4152-a19f-cd3bac34e69b@k30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 31, 9:59 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "MZ" <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote in message
>
> news:b31cac3e-0655-4916-9fdd-43f603ed1783@v31g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 30, 8:18 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:72126ffe-3145-45a8-b9b0-012fea0023b9@f11g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...
> > On Mar 30, 5:25 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > >news:ee1e01c0-9b3f-424c-a3da-f632f64ea644@v16g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Mar 30, 10:49 am, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:949feb53-7000-44b8-bcba-bdf27852ff46@w9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> > > > On Mar 30, 10:17 am, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:6291483a-fb44-4e61-bd4a-517ab9318d00@s3g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > On Mar 29, 10:55 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > > >news:a0c89fb0-937f-4a9a-a43d-84797bc6eace@cu4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > >http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/New-York-Jets-QB-Erik-Ainge-says-h...
>
> > > > > > > I hope he gets it cleaned up and comes back. I liked the way
> > > > > > > he
> > > > > > > looked. Raw, but big upside. Perhaps he can get back to
> > > > > > > football
> > > > > > > now.
>
> > > > > > With bi-polar disorder it is perhaps not a good place for him to
> > > > > > be.
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > hope
> > > > > > he thinks about his health and long term future first. For him,
> > > > > > football
> > > > > > has to be a distant second priority. I hope he makes it.
>
> > > > > papa... one other thing to consider. i am positive that there were
> > > > > people that have been miss diagnosed with things like bi-polar at
> > > > > the
> > > > > same time that they are fighting a substanse abuse. a lot of
> > > > > things
> > > > > that booze and drugs due to you mimmic the effects of things like
> > > > > bi-
> > > > > polar. i'm not disputing his doctors, but i am always a tad bit
> > > > > skeptical about mental illness being diagnosed along with drug or
> > > > > booze addiction. lets keep in mind, ainge made it through grade
> > > > > school, high school and college all the way to the pros with NO
> > > > > help.
> > > > > Now he has help. I dont see why he wont be able to continue even
> > > > > if
> > > > > he actually has bi-polar. Also... There are several kinds of bi-
> > > > > polar. Some being the type with long periods of ups where the
> > > > > person
> > > > > does wild stuff like spending, drugs and all manner of chance
> > > > > taking,
> > > > > followed by long periods of serious depression. Others have the
> > > > > same
> > > > > length of periods but with much less intensity. Then there is the
> > > > > bi-
> > > > > polar that has swings that dont last as long. One person is not
> > > > > like
> > > > > the other, and Ainge may not be that bad off. Some people with bi-
> > > > > polar are functional without lithium. Anti-Depresants alone can
> > > > > help
> > > > > in some cases. Again... Let him stay clean for a long time and
> > > > > than
> > > > > get evaluated. You know what booze and drugs to the nervous
> > > > > system.
> > > > > Even the best Psch on the planet would have a hard time making an
> > > > > air
> > > > > tight diagnosis. I bet he plays again and with help, is able to do
> > > > > it
> > > > > without booze. Hard, but not impossible.
>
> > > > > The most common comorbidity of issues is bi-polar disorder and a
> > > > > substance
> > > > > disorder. In many cases it is the use of a depressant drug to get
> > > > > back
> > > > > down
> > > > > again after a manic episode. Other times it may be use of
> > > > > stimulant
> > > > > drugs
> > > > > to prolong a manic episode. The difficulty is that during a manic
> > > > > period
> > > > > the individual often feels invincible and is very resistant to any
> > > > > suggestion that something could be wrong. The disease itself is an
> > > > > up
> > > > > and
> > > > > down cycle usually...but not always. He has been in treatment long
> > > > > enough
> > > > > now, and with good enough doctors to figure out what is wrong with
> > > > > him.
> > > > > Yes, bi-polar disorder exists in various forms...like Bi-Polar I
> > > > > and
> > > > > Bi-Polar II and then with a lot of qualifiers. If you are really
> > > > > interested
> > > > > you can look it up in The DSM IV Manual. It isn't so difficult
> > > > > that
> > > > > it
> > > > > can't be followed and understood. He is in the age category where
> > > > > the
> > > > > disease usually presents itself in full bloom. A lot of typical
> > > > > cases
> > > > > do
> > > > > not get recognized as such during adolesence and then become
> > > > > evident
> > > > > in
> > > > > early adulthood. You are also right that he needs to be clean for
> > > > > a
> > > > > period
> > > > > of time to be certain about everything...especially with the array
> > > > > of
> > > > > drugs
> > > > > he alluded to. However, he has been in treatment for 8 months, and
> > > > > that
> > > > > should have gotten him to a point where they more fully understand
> > > > > what
> > > > > is
> > > > > wrong with him. Did any of the articles indicate where he was
> > > > > being
> > > > > treated? 21 years ago when I left coaching I went in to my second
> > > > > career
> > > > > which was in behavioral heath. I had been taking courses and
> > > > > securing
> > > > > a
> > > > > second MA level degree over a period of time. I had also taken a
> > > > > night
> > > > > job
> > > > > after football season working in a crisis center. Then I made the
> > > > > switch
> > > > > and that is what I did since then. I had the experience of working
> > > > > with
> > > > > a
> > > > > lot of young people with dual diagnosis issues...substance abuse /
> > > > > dependence and mental illness. It is a very hard road to walk for
> > > > > them.
> > > > > I
> > > > > certainly wish him well...and for all those who I'm sure will be
> > > > > judging...the bi-polar issues definitely foster substance use and
> > > > > abuse.
>
> > > > no question that biologial mental illness and mental trauma leads a
> > > > lot of people to "self medicate". that is basic. i am not disputing
> > > > that he may have bi-polar. i am saying two things here. bi-polar and
> > > > substance abuse is so commonly linked, that medical professionals go
> > > > off half cocked. i know it for a fact. a guy i know with a booze
> > > > problem got miss diagnosed with bi-polar. two years after he started
> > > > taking drugs for b-polar and was clean from booze, another dr.
> > > > evlauated him and told him he did not have bi-polar but had been
> > > > suffering from damage to his nervous system from booze. it just
> > > > looked
> > > > like bi-polar. they took him off his lithium and there were no sings
> > > > of bi-polar. i also know a woman who is bi-polar. she takes meds and
> > > > works in a high pressure business job. years go, she had all manner
> > > > of problems in her life, but since she got diagnosed, all is under
> > > > control. why not ainge too ??? again... if the guy got through life
> > > > playing ball up to now, he can play again and be better for it. i
> > > > dont agree that the stimulation of a competitive career WONT be
> > > > better
> > > > for him than basket weaving. it depends on the paticularites of his
> > > > condition.
>
> > > > This is where you lose people...you go from playing Pro Football to
> > > > basket
> > > > weaving...come on...
>
> > > yeah, it was an asshole remark, but just making a point. he may very
> > > well be able to play on the big stage even if he does have real
> > > bipolar. to a pro ball player, not beign on the field is virtual
> > > basket weaving.
>
> > > >to your other point...a LOT of bi-polar diagnoses are
> > > > probably way off base...it is popular these days :-)- Hide quoted
> > > > text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > again... psych not my area, but it seems like some diagnosis and psych
> > > drugs these days are just in fassion. i suppose better than the dark
> > > ages 30-50 years ago or so when witch doctors were at work on psych
> > > cases.
>
> > > IMHO...and afteer working inside a psych hospital...a lot of guys who
> > > get
> > > a
> > > psych diagnosis and "help" should have gone to jail, prison and done
> > > some
> > > serious time, but in so many cases they get a pass because someone,
> > > somehow
> > > gets them a diagnosis and they are of the right "type" to skate on
> > > what
> > > others may wind up doing time for. I think there are a lot of mentally
> > > ill
> > > people in prison, but I do not think every criminal does what they do
> > > because they are mentally ill. I think a lot of psychiatrists and
> > > other
> > > practitioners tend to want to have a reason why someone does what they
> > > do
> > > and even turns to drugs. In the cultural mindset it is easy to do that
> > > when
> > > they are dealing with a person from an extremely deprived, and often
> > > violent
> > > environment. It is harder for them to come up with a reason when they
> > > are
> > > working with a kid that has had it all...or appears to have. This
> > > stuff
> > > is
> > > all an outgrowth of the "free will" notions and they don't want to
> > > admit
> > > that some stuff just happens or that someone is a victim of their
> > > genetics
> > > or in the case of athletes and other "special" kids they get too much
> > > given
> > > to them and are given too many passes. Life is very often quite
> > > difficult
> > > and it is not always meant to be fun...try and sell that to some
> > > folks.-
> > > Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > i'd gather that the mental health field is part science and part
> > craft. too many shades of gray for absolutes or cook book measures.
>
> > Same patient two different psychiatrists often means two different
> > diagnoses....or different days when the patient presents...it is not a
> > hard
> > science
>
> It is a hard science. It's just in its infancy. We really don't know
> much about it. In the future, people will probably look at our level
> of understanding and strategies of treatment the way we look at
> bloodletting now.
>
> Mark...my reference is to the current system of diagnosing something. DSM
> IV
> and how it gets used is not hard science. I completely agree that in the
> future it will be. Also, in the case of depression...I personally think it
> is a crime that so many suffer from it...there is enough science there
> that
> puts it in the category of high blood pressure...nobody should die from
> it.
> This stuff goes untreated and that is a crime. You are 100% correct...in
> the future..but right now...this culture does not even recognize parity of
> behavioral health issues. Somebody finally asks for help with a serious
> alcohol addiction and his insurance company gives him three days of
> treatment. IF...a big IF we used the tools available it would be a lot
> more
> scientific...most treatment centers don't even test for steroids..not even
> when all of the signs are there. I agree with you...it is in it's
> infancy..but a lot of what we do have available does not get used.

We can't let the insurance companies be the arbiter of good and bad
medical policy. Their goals run counter to that a lot of the time. I
know what you meant though. I just don't think we should make
distinctions like "hard science" or, as Michael was putting it,
"biological" mental issues. It summons dualism, which is a crappy
road to go down. I think a better description is that some diagnosis
and treatment are very post hoc. Lots of research money goes into
trying to fix that, but like I said, we're really in the infancy of
our understanding of mental health and cognitive function in general.
Science can, and often does, solve a lot of these issues, but it will
take time.

All of contemporary mental health or if you will behavioral heath is
diagnosed using the DSM IV R Manual. It is a five axis diagnosis pattern.
Axis I is biologically driven diseases, like depression, schizophrenia,
bi-polar disorder, and addictions, Axis II is acquired disorders like
personality disorders and also mental retardation...being a person so
afflicted CAN learn but not in a time frame that allows them to function
(personally I have always taken exception to that placement) Axis III is
physical problems that influence the function of the patient. Axis IV is the
social function of the individual and Axis V is a Gross Assessment of
Function....the very "science" of the system does in fact emphasize
biological issues. You are right, it will take time but even more
importantly it will take a populace and people in a position to drive it
that want it to happen. That does not exist at the moment and in fact, we
are experiencing a backlash against what I believe you and I would want to
see. As for what started this discussion, I think a lot of personality
disorders get called Bi-polar disorder by convenience and because the
clinician doing the diagnostic work know that will get treatment and the
real issue will often not. If it is not a good idea for someone with a
kidney transplant to be involved in contact sports and we can understand
that...why isn't it not understandable that someone with a serious mental
disorder not be involved in aggression based, highly volatile and emotional
activities? We just don't let people get what they need to be healthy. I
LOVE shellfish...dream about clams on the halfshell or raw oysters..but I
can't eat them...with two organ transplants that would be pure
follishness...I also can't have my beloved grapefruit in the morning because
it interacts with immunosupressants...all understood....but we sometimes
seem to think it is OK to subject a recovering alcoholic to a lot of social
drinking or a person dealing with mental illness with situations that
compound the stress, not help it. We have a long way to go.

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