rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=enrec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* CycleSport--The Endgame Begins - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/818def765394c726?hl=en
* Could Lafferty's Tuesday be this Tuesday ? - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bc772a282b427b0b?hl=en
* The People Damaged and Defamed by Armstrong & Co. - 8 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/87228517e2c39f5e?hl=en
* Hincapie Comes Clean... All Over Lance's Face - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2ea82f47d4937019?hl=en
* Facts4lance.com - the bullshit streak continues - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/56791a66539ef678?hl=en
* Armstrong's tight inner circle crumbles (espn:bonnie ford) - 2 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/219a31be4cdb2ab8?hl=en
* Not Worth the Cost of Integrity - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/9743984c013d36f2?hl=en
* Giro d'Italia, stage 14 summary - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/fb72f45bc5f05c72?hl=en
* Lance Gunderson's Future Employment - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a0091e5139d56387?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: CycleSport--The Endgame Begins
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/818def765394c726?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 9:32 am
From: "truthitalia@yahoo.com"
http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/lance-armstrong-the-endgame-begins/
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 10:36 am
From: Anton Berlin
On May 21, 11:32 am, "truthita...@yahoo.com" <truthita...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/lance-armstrong-the-end...
Armstrong Tweeted: "Congratulations to @eki_ekimov on his 3rd Olympic
Gold Medal!!" That was a reference to his former US Postal Service
team-mate, Vjatcheslav Ekimov, who was second to Hamilton in that
Athens time trial. It appears Armstrong has no problem with titles
being retrospectively stripped in such circumstances. Good to know.
( Great to know. Anton )
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 12:45 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<truthitalia@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1b7bde0a-94b1-4cf0-8eb0-a4e9edb3a145@bl1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/lance-armstrong-the-endgame-begins/
"And together we all allowed one man to dominate the sport, to its
detriment."
What detriment? The sport grew tremendously while Lance was winning his 7
TdFs. The detriment of scandal? Something in any way unusual for bicycle
racing from an historical context? The detriment of having an American
beating the Euros at their own game? The detriment, if true, of learning
from the Festina scandal and finding a better way to cheat?
What was it "we" allowed? What were "we" supposed to do? If Lance doped, he
didn't win 7 TdFs because he doped. He won because he had a system in place
that other teams lacked. Other teams that most certainly were doping at the
time (as proven by those who were caught). To the extent we gave him
sainthood, sure, guilty on that one. But it's absurd to suggest that cycling
suffered greatly due to Lance, or that any one thing Lance did caused that
to happen.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 1:52 pm
From: "truthitalia@yahoo.com"
On May 21, 3:45 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> <truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1b7bde0a-94b1-4cf0-8eb0-a4e9edb3a145@bl1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> >http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/lance-armstrong-the-end...
>
> "And together we all allowed one man to dominate the sport, to its
> detriment."
>
> What detriment? The sport grew tremendously while Lance was winning his 7
> TdFs. The detriment of scandal? Something in any way unusual for bicycle
> racing from an historical context? The detriment of having an American
> beating the Euros at their own game? The detriment, if true, of learning
> from the Festina scandal and finding a better way to cheat?
>
> What was it "we" allowed? What were "we" supposed to do? If Lance doped, he
> didn't win 7 TdFs because he doped. He won because he had a system in place
> that other teams lacked. Other teams that most certainly were doping at the
> time (as proven by those who were caught). To the extent we gave him
> sainthood, sure, guilty on that one. But it's absurd to suggest that cycling
> suffered greatly due to Lance, or that any one thing Lance did caused that
> to happen.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
Thanks for sharing your utterly vapid, amoral position on what
Armstrong and Co. did, Mike. How many Treks and how much profit did
you make off Trek/Lance product during the lying years?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Could Lafferty's Tuesday be this Tuesday ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/bc772a282b427b0b?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 10:07 am
From: Fred Flintstein
On 5/21/2011 10:54 AM, Anton Berlin wrote:
> On May 21, 10:19 am, Fred Flintstein
> <bob.schwa...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 5/21/2011 9:34 AM, Anton Berlin wrote:
>>
>>> Dumbass - I was contacted by SCA attorneys. I can assure you doping
>>> was a pertinent and majority part of the conversation.
>>
>> Ummm, the guy that rendered the judgment disagreed. Whose
>> opinion counted more? Dumbass?
>>
>> F
>>
>> PS If you repeat the same arguments over and over, surely
>> at some point they will be correct, eh?
>
> Don't you feel uncomfortable being a grown man and being obsessively
> in love with another man ? Why does Lance's innocence influence your
> masturbation fantasies so thoroughly?
Creepy dumbass,
I am quite certain that LANCE doped. I am also quite
certain that your infatuation with him is without
peer except for Laff.
F
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 10:43 am
From: Anton Berlin
On May 21, 11:03 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> > SCA, Jesus Fucking Christ! Dope wasn't relevant to the
> > contract. Thus lying about dope isn't perjury. But you know
> > that.
>
> > If you google 'legal definition of fraud' you'll find the, um,
> > legal definition of fraud. Check it out.
>
> > F
>
> > PS And if they get him for possession I certainly hope someone
> > in the FDA hierarchy has an uncomfortable discussion with
> > Novitsky about the proper use of scarce law enforcement
> > resources. Especially since they aren't fucking likely to get
> > him for possession a decade after the fact.
>
> =======
> Dumbass - I was contacted by SCA attorneys. I can assure you doping
> was a pertinent and majority part of the conversation.
> =======
>
> Could you elaborate on that? It didn't seem to have anything to do with
> the final decision in the case. Do you think it was just posturing, an
> attempt to rattle people? Maybe something like Greg LeMond did when he
> threatened Trek with public disclosure of everything-Lance and various
> internal discussions, something that Trek negated by disclosing
> everything first (the "nuclear" option). Maybe SCA figured that Lance
> would drop the lawsuit under the threat of negative publicity?
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Mainly questions surrounding my experience at the OTC with the coaches
that Lance later had. Questions about his teammates and statements
they had made on training rides. A lot of other specifics that I
can't recall or don't wish to talk about now. I still have friends
out there.
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 12:02 pm
From: Substance McGravitas
On 5/20/2011 7:18 PM, Anton Berlin wrote:
> On May 20, 9:14 pm, Substance McGravitas<F...@Burger.com> wrote:
>> On 5/20/2011 9:25 AM, Fred Flintstein wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 5/20/2011 10:22 AM, Anton Berlin wrote:
>>>> On May 20, 10:18 am, Fred Flintstein
>>>> <bob.schwa...@sbcremoveglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 5/20/2011 9:53 AM, Choppy Warburton wrote:
>>
>>>>>> On May 20, 9:03 am, Fred Flintstein<bob.schwa...@sbcremoveglobal.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/20/2011 8:34 AM, truthita...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> The Uniballer's PR man, Fabio, is
>>>>>>>> already spinning the the greed motive for Tyler, but it simply isn't
>>>>>>>> going to fly at this point. Too many former associated are biting the
>>>>>>>> snake's tail. Once it comes out in an indictment that the alleged TdS
>>>>>>>> positive was covered up, Armstrong will be dead in the water.
>>
>>>>>>> Dumbass,
>>
>>>>>>> Is doping to win a bike race illegal?
>>
>>>>>>> F
>>
>>>>>> It's not about the doped up cyclist on a bike dumbass. Racketeering,
>>>>>> fraud, money laundering and a host of other crimes are.
>>
>>>>> Then how is covering up a TdS positive relevant?
>>
>>>>> And is selling bikes on ebay illegal?
>>
>>>>> F
>>
>>>> You're being obtuse.
>>
>>>> Read the god damn criminal code and get your head out of your ass.
>>>> Your faggy obsession is clouding your judgment.
>>
>>>> And yes conversion (aka theft by deception) is a crime.
>>
>>> Neither you nor Laff can tell me what he did that was illegal.
>>> Both of you guys are falling back on HE-DID-REALLY-BAD-STUFF
>>> as a description of his alleged offense.
>>
>>> Don't it bother you to be on the same side of this as someone
>>> like Lafferty? Using the same tactic? Aren't you going to tell
>>> us that time will tell?
>>
>>> F
>>
>> Your point is valid and reasonable, but it doesn't take prosecutor
>> creativity into account. They will find the things they can prove and
>> try to find a way to shoe horn them into the criminal code as best they
>> can. Predicting whether that'll work or not is another matter but it's
>> obscenely likely that they will try.
>
> His point isn't "valid and reasonable". if you take the time to read
> this you will learn that the average citizen is committing felonies
> and misdemeanors nearly every day. It's just that most of us don't
> get caught.
When you say "if you take the time to read this...", what does "this"
refer to? I don't see a link.
It is reasonable to recognize that the prosecutors are not a bunch of
fanboys and amateurs. The fanboys and amateurs arguing this in RBR are
not familiar with neither the evidence nor the law. Where you and I
differ is that I include you and Lafferty in the list of fanboys and
amateurs.
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 12:35 pm
From: Anton Berlin
> When you say "if you take the time to read this...", what does "this"
> refer to? I don't see a link.
>
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/718/usc_sup_01_18.html
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The People Damaged and Defamed by Armstrong & Co.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/87228517e2c39f5e?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 10:10 am
From: Fred Flintstein
On 5/21/2011 11:24 AM, truthitalia@yahoo.com wrote:
> Dude, he's called Frankie, Floyd and Tyler liars and and implied that
> they've committed perjury.
Dumbass,
Calling them liars does not imply a claim of perjury. May I
remind you that you're not an attorney and shouldn't claim
knowledge in this area.
F
== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 11:38 am
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<truthitalia@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c81f0032-fdbc-4c0d-8d80-c0a1d532ba33@f9g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
On May 21, 11:18 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> <truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:dbb529ec-e2f7-425d-bbc1-f2441e089b4d@a7g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Greg, Frankie, Betsy, Floyd, Tyler, Christophe, Filipo, David, Pierre,
> > Steffan Prentis, Emma O'Reilly. The list of good people smeared to
> > maintain the myth is endless. These folks should sue for defamation
> > even though it will not bring back much of what they lost to this
> > lying moron from Plano. The people in the cancer community who look
> > up to him are the most violated victims. To use their cancer to help
> > build his myth and cover up his life of lies is despicable.
>
> I'll give you some slack when including the anciallary figures in this
> case, but Frankie, Floyd & Tyler? C'mon, there's no personal
> responsibility in your world? These guys all made a choice. Nobody
> forced them to dope themselves, nobody forced them to stay in a vocation
> in which it appears, from their own stories, that the only way you could
> win or even be competitive was to dope. And there remains a shocking
> lack of forensic evidence so far. It will be interesting, if we get to
> see the Grand Jury testimony, to see if the various stories all line up,
> or if it has remained a lot of individual stories but no two of them
> supporting the same event.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
======
Dude, he's called Frankie, Floyd and Tyler liars and and implied that
they've committed perjury.
I hope a few of these folks get together and sue his Plano ass for
defamation and business interference (some of them).
======
So it's only the last one standing who has any accountability? These guys,
by popular account, have been lying and making upstories FOR YEARS. Now
suddenly they've changed their tune, saying they're telling the truth now,
they were lying before when they denied various allegations against each of
them. What makes Lance's liability in lawsuits and/or personal credibility
in general any different from the rest of them?
And then there's Floyd. You really want to bring him up in the same
paragraph as "honorable" people? Floyd continued to make up stories (lie)
after his big confession. Some people cannot help themselves. Maybe Floyd
*was* treated like a second-class citizen when working for Lance. But he
can't help but make up fictional stories that sound like they could have
happened, to bolster his claims. Specifically, as I said before, Floyd was
not riding "old" equipment that was any different from what anyone else on
the team was riding. Floyd continued to spew nonsense long after his
"confession."
How much nonsense from others? I don't know. But I think it unlikely that a
low-level mafia grunt would be able to successfully sue his boss for libel,
and that might be what we're looking at here. It could be a bunch of
now-repentent mafia grunts, but I think that's a distinction without legal
merit.
Regarding the case in general, as I said elsewhere, what will give
credibility to the "Lance is a lying doper" line will be one or both of the
following-
#1: Forensic evidence, which has been amazingly lacking so far, at least
what we know of. Maybe there will be a big surprise the week before the TdF.
#2: Grand Jury testimony from multiple sources documenting the same event
the same way. So far, we have many people each with their own separate Lance
doping tale. What we don't seem to have are even two people documenting the
same event, despite the fact that Lance was typically around more than just
one person when these things are said to have happened. If it turns out that
we do have such testimony, then it's pretty much case-closed for the
Lance-is-clean camp.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 11:51 am
From: "truthitalia@yahoo.com"
On May 21, 1:10 pm, Fred Flintstein <bob.schwa...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net>
wrote:
> On 5/21/2011 11:24 AM, truthita...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Dude, he's called Frankie, Floyd and Tyler liars and and implied that
> > they've committed perjury.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> Calling them liars does not imply a claim of perjury. May I
> remind you that you're not an attorney and shouldn't claim
> knowledge in this area.
>
> F
FuckTard, as an attorney, I can tell you that Mr. Lance will be
defaming his former teammates who are telling the truth, if he
actually calls them liars. He's really close to the line now by
attacking their motives and brining up their past lies. And if he
actually calls them liars, then he is also calling them perjurers as
well---actionable. And the Uniballer won't be able to use truth as his
absolute defense. Now, please go back under your personal rock and
jack off some more before amusing us further.
== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 11:52 am
From: "truthitalia@yahoo.com"
On May 21, 2:38 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> <truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c81f0032-fdbc-4c0d-8d80-c0a1d532ba33@f9g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
> On May 21, 11:18 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > <truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:dbb529ec-e2f7-425d-bbc1-f2441e089b4d@a7g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Greg, Frankie, Betsy, Floyd, Tyler, Christophe, Filipo, David, Pierre,
> > > Steffan Prentis, Emma O'Reilly. The list of good people smeared to
> > > maintain the myth is endless. These folks should sue for defamation
> > > even though it will not bring back much of what they lost to this
> > > lying moron from Plano. The people in the cancer community who look
> > > up to him are the most violated victims. To use their cancer to help
> > > build his myth and cover up his life of lies is despicable.
>
> > I'll give you some slack when including the anciallary figures in this
> > case, but Frankie, Floyd & Tyler? C'mon, there's no personal
> > responsibility in your world? These guys all made a choice. Nobody
> > forced them to dope themselves, nobody forced them to stay in a vocation
> > in which it appears, from their own stories, that the only way you could
> > win or even be competitive was to dope. And there remains a shocking
> > lack of forensic evidence so far. It will be interesting, if we get to
> > see the Grand Jury testimony, to see if the various stories all line up,
> > or if it has remained a lot of individual stories but no two of them
> > supporting the same event.
>
> > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> ======
> Dude, he's called Frankie, Floyd and Tyler liars and and implied that
> they've committed perjury.
> I hope a few of these folks get together and sue his Plano ass for
> defamation and business interference (some of them).
> ======
>
> So it's only the last one standing who has any accountability? These guys,
> by popular account, have been lying and making upstories FOR YEARS. Now
> suddenly they've changed their tune, saying they're telling the truth now,
> they were lying before when they denied various allegations against each of
> them. What makes Lance's liability in lawsuits and/or personal credibility
> in general any different from the rest of them?
>
> And then there's Floyd. You really want to bring him up in the same
> paragraph as "honorable" people? Floyd continued to make up stories (lie)
> after his big confession. Some people cannot help themselves. Maybe Floyd
> *was* treated like a second-class citizen when working for Lance. But he
> can't help but make up fictional stories that sound like they could have
> happened, to bolster his claims. Specifically, as I said before, Floyd was
> not riding "old" equipment that was any different from what anyone else on
> the team was riding. Floyd continued to spew nonsense long after his
> "confession."
>
> How much nonsense from others? I don't know. But I think it unlikely that a
> low-level mafia grunt would be able to successfully sue his boss for libel,
> and that might be what we're looking at here. It could be a bunch of
> now-repentent mafia grunts, but I think that's a distinction without legal
> merit.
>
> Regarding the case in general, as I said elsewhere, what will give
> credibility to the "Lance is a lying doper" line will be one or both of the
> following-
>
> #1: Forensic evidence, which has been amazingly lacking so far, at least
> what we know of. Maybe there will be a big surprise the week before the TdF.
>
> #2: Grand Jury testimony from multiple sources documenting the same event
> the same way. So far, we have many people each with their own separate Lance
> doping tale. What we don't seem to have are even two people documenting the
> same event, despite the fact that Lance was typically around more than just
> one person when these things are said to have happened. If it turns out that
> we do have such testimony, then it's pretty much case-closed for the
> Lance-is-clean camp.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
What drugs are you using, MIke?
== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 12:45 pm
From: --D-y
On May 21, 1:51 pm, "truthita...@yahoo.com" <truthita...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> FuckTard, (snip snip snip)
Brian?
> Now, please go back under your personal rock and
> jack off some more before amusing us further.
Yup.
--D-y
== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 12:50 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<truthitalia@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:170a97c8-5985-4526-9abc-a7e8a720cf25@e8g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
> What drugs are you using, MIke?
Triple-shot venti mocha. Should have been a double-shot grande. Better yet
something from Main Street Coffee rather than *bucks.
But why not just answer the two questions I asked? Tell me why they're not
reasonable. Or that they're already been answered. So far we continue to see
regurgitation of the same stuff, over and over and over, as if reprinting
multiple stories of the same person saying the same thing somehow makes it
more credible. Here they are again-
#1: Forensic evidence, which has been amazingly lacking so far, at least
what we know of. Maybe there will be a big surprise the week before the TdF.
#2: Grand Jury testimony from multiple sources documenting the same event
the same way. So far, we have many people each with their own separate Lance
doping tale. What we don't seem to have are even two people documenting the
same event, despite the fact that Lance was typically around more than just
one person when these things are said to have happened. If it turns out that
we do have such testimony, then it's pretty much case-closed for the
Lance-is-clean camp.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
<truthitalia@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:170a97c8-5985-4526-9abc-a7e8a720cf25@e8g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
On May 21, 2:38 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> <truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c81f0032-fdbc-4c0d-8d80-c0a1d532ba33@f9g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
> On May 21, 11:18 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > <truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:dbb529ec-e2f7-425d-bbc1-f2441e089b4d@a7g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Greg, Frankie, Betsy, Floyd, Tyler, Christophe, Filipo, David, Pierre,
> > > Steffan Prentis, Emma O'Reilly. The list of good people smeared to
> > > maintain the myth is endless. These folks should sue for defamation
> > > even though it will not bring back much of what they lost to this
> > > lying moron from Plano. The people in the cancer community who look
> > > up to him are the most violated victims. To use their cancer to help
> > > build his myth and cover up his life of lies is despicable.
>
> > I'll give you some slack when including the anciallary figures in this
> > case, but Frankie, Floyd & Tyler? C'mon, there's no personal
> > responsibility in your world? These guys all made a choice. Nobody
> > forced them to dope themselves, nobody forced them to stay in a vocation
> > in which it appears, from their own stories, that the only way you could
> > win or even be competitive was to dope. And there remains a shocking
> > lack of forensic evidence so far. It will be interesting, if we get to
> > see the Grand Jury testimony, to see if the various stories all line up,
> > or if it has remained a lot of individual stories but no two of them
> > supporting the same event.
>
> > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> ======
> Dude, he's called Frankie, Floyd and Tyler liars and and implied that
> they've committed perjury.
> I hope a few of these folks get together and sue his Plano ass for
> defamation and business interference (some of them).
> ======
>
> So it's only the last one standing who has any accountability? These guys,
> by popular account, have been lying and making upstories FOR YEARS. Now
> suddenly they've changed their tune, saying they're telling the truth now,
> they were lying before when they denied various allegations against each
> of
> them. What makes Lance's liability in lawsuits and/or personal credibility
> in general any different from the rest of them?
>
> And then there's Floyd. You really want to bring him up in the same
> paragraph as "honorable" people? Floyd continued to make up stories (lie)
> after his big confession. Some people cannot help themselves. Maybe Floyd
> *was* treated like a second-class citizen when working for Lance. But he
> can't help but make up fictional stories that sound like they could have
> happened, to bolster his claims. Specifically, as I said before, Floyd was
> not riding "old" equipment that was any different from what anyone else on
> the team was riding. Floyd continued to spew nonsense long after his
> "confession."
>
> How much nonsense from others? I don't know. But I think it unlikely that
> a
> low-level mafia grunt would be able to successfully sue his boss for
> libel,
> and that might be what we're looking at here. It could be a bunch of
> now-repentent mafia grunts, but I think that's a distinction without legal
> merit.
>
> Regarding the case in general, as I said elsewhere, what will give
> credibility to the "Lance is a lying doper" line will be one or both of
> the
> following-
>
> #1: Forensic evidence, which has been amazingly lacking so far, at least
> what we know of. Maybe there will be a big surprise the week before the
> TdF.
>
> #2: Grand Jury testimony from multiple sources documenting the same event
> the same way. So far, we have many people each with their own separate
> Lance
> doping tale. What we don't seem to have are even two people documenting
> the
> same event, despite the fact that Lance was typically around more than
> just
> one person when these things are said to have happened. If it turns out
> that
> we do have such testimony, then it's pretty much case-closed for the
> Lance-is-clean camp.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
What drugs are you using, MIke?
== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 1:54 pm
From: "truthitalia@yahoo.com"
On May 21, 3:50 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> <truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:170a97c8-5985-4526-9abc-a7e8a720cf25@e8g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
>
> > What drugs are you using, MIke?
>
> Triple-shot venti mocha. Should have been a double-shot grande. Better yet
> something from Main Street Coffee rather than *bucks.
>
> But why not just answer the two questions I asked? Tell me why they're not
> reasonable. Or that they're already been answered. So far we continue to see
> regurgitation of the same stuff, over and over and over, as if reprinting
> multiple stories of the same person saying the same thing somehow makes it
> more credible. Here they are again-
>
> #1: Forensic evidence, which has been amazingly lacking so far, at least
> what we know of. Maybe there will be a big surprise the week before the TdF.
>
> #2: Grand Jury testimony from multiple sources documenting the same event
> the same way. So far, we have many people each with their own separate Lance
> doping tale. What we don't seem to have are even two people documenting the
> same event, despite the fact that Lance was typically around more than just
> one person when these things are said to have happened. If it turns out that
> we do have such testimony, then it's pretty much case-closed for the
> Lance-is-clean camp.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> <truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:170a97c8-5985-4526-9abc-a7e8a720cf25@e8g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
> On May 21, 2:38 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > <truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:c81f0032-fdbc-4c0d-8d80-c0a1d532ba33@f9g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
> > On May 21, 11:18 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > <truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:dbb529ec-e2f7-425d-bbc1-f2441e089b4d@a7g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > Greg, Frankie, Betsy, Floyd, Tyler, Christophe, Filipo, David, Pierre,
> > > > Steffan Prentis, Emma O'Reilly. The list of good people smeared to
> > > > maintain the myth is endless. These folks should sue for defamation
> > > > even though it will not bring back much of what they lost to this
> > > > lying moron from Plano. The people in the cancer community who look
> > > > up to him are the most violated victims. To use their cancer to help
> > > > build his myth and cover up his life of lies is despicable.
>
> > > I'll give you some slack when including the anciallary figures in this
> > > case, but Frankie, Floyd & Tyler? C'mon, there's no personal
> > > responsibility in your world? These guys all made a choice. Nobody
> > > forced them to dope themselves, nobody forced them to stay in a vocation
> > > in which it appears, from their own stories, that the only way you could
> > > win or even be competitive was to dope. And there remains a shocking
> > > lack of forensic evidence so far. It will be interesting, if we get to
> > > see the Grand Jury testimony, to see if the various stories all line up,
> > > or if it has remained a lot of individual stories but no two of them
> > > supporting the same event.
>
> > > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> > ======
> > Dude, he's called Frankie, Floyd and Tyler liars and and implied that
> > they've committed perjury.
> > I hope a few of these folks get together and sue his Plano ass for
> > defamation and business interference (some of them).
> > ======
>
> > So it's only the last one standing who has any accountability? These guys,
> > by popular account, have been lying and making upstories FOR YEARS. Now
> > suddenly they've changed their tune, saying they're telling the truth now,
> > they were lying before when they denied various allegations against each
> > of
> > them. What makes Lance's liability in lawsuits and/or personal credibility
> > in general any different from the rest of them?
>
> > And then there's Floyd. You really want to bring him up in the same
> > paragraph as "honorable" people? Floyd continued to make up stories (lie)
> > after his big confession. Some people cannot help themselves. Maybe Floyd
> > *was* treated like a second-class citizen when working for Lance. But he
> > can't help but make up fictional stories that sound like they could have
> > happened, to bolster his claims. Specifically, as I said before, Floyd was
> > not riding "old" equipment that was any different from what anyone else on
> > the team was riding. Floyd continued to spew nonsense long after his
> > "confession."
>
> > How much nonsense from others? I don't know. But I think it unlikely that
> > a
> > low-level mafia grunt would be able to successfully sue his boss for
> > libel,
> > and that might be what we're looking at here. It could be a bunch of
> > now-repentent mafia grunts, but I think that's a distinction without legal
> > merit.
>
> > Regarding the case in general, as I said elsewhere, what will give
> > credibility to the "Lance is a lying doper" line will be one or both of
> > the
> > following-
>
> > #1: Forensic evidence, which has been amazingly lacking so far, at least
> > what we know of. Maybe there will be a big surprise the week before the
> > TdF.
>
> > #2: Grand Jury testimony from multiple sources documenting the same event
> > the same way. So far, we have many people each with their own separate
> > Lance
> > doping tale. What we don't seem to have are even two people documenting
> > the
> > same event, despite the fact that Lance was typically around more than
> > just
> > one person when these things are said to have happened. If it turns out
> > that
> > we do have such testimony, then it's pretty much case-closed for the
> > Lance-is-clean camp.
>
> > --Mike Jacoubowsky
> > Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> > Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> What drugs are you using, MIke?
I'm thinking maybe you swallowed the worm a few nights ago.
== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 2:25 pm
From: Substance McGravitas
On 5/21/2011 9:24 AM, truthitalia@yahoo.com wrote:
> Dude, he's called Frankie, Floyd and Tyler liars and and implied that
> they've committed perjury.
> I hope a few of these folks get together and sue his Plano ass for
> defamation and business interference (some of them).
I hate to break it to you, but Tyler and Floyd ARE liars.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hincapie Comes Clean... All Over Lance's Face
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/2ea82f47d4937019?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 10:51 am
From: Anton Berlin
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/8527670/George-Hincapie-testimony-would-be-the-most-damaging-yet-to-Lance-Armstrong.html
After the Hamilton and Andreu interviews went public, Armstrong
launched a website refuting the claims and calling into question the
credibility of Andreu, Hamilton and Landis. He also posted a letter
addressed to CBS News, calling the "60 Minutes" reporting "disgraceful
journalism."
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Facts4lance.com - the bullshit streak continues
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/56791a66539ef678?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 11:02 am
From: Anton Berlin
Facts4Lance.com
I am unable to find the "my best friend, training and racing partner
for a decade isn't credible" link.
Please post if you find it.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Armstrong's tight inner circle crumbles (espn:bonnie ford)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/219a31be4cdb2ab8?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 11:17 am
From: yirgster
Armstrong's tight inner circle crumbles
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/columns/story?id=6572159
LOS ANGELES -- After all these years, all these miles and all the suspicion, it's still somewhat astonishing to see the cars on the old Blue Train uncoupling one by one. This may forever be remembered as the week when Lance Armstrong finally lost control over the U.S. Postal Service cycling team that formally disbanded years ago.
One of Armstrong's most prominent support riders from early on in his seven-year reign as Tour de France champion, Tyler Hamilton, admitted to his own doping past and has given the CBS newsmagazine "60 Minutes" an alleged eyewitness account of Armstrong using performance-enhancing drugs that will air on Sunday evening.
The network also reported a potentially even more weighty revelation, saying that George Hincapie, the only man to have been on all of Armstrong's Tour-winning teams, has told federal authorities investigating Armstrong that the two men supplied each other with banned substances and discussed their use. Hincapie has not confirmed the story and said he never spoke to "60 Minutes."
Armstrong has never strayed from his blanket denial of doping. But taken together with Floyd Landis' year-old detailed confession and allegations of Armstrong doping, the new material constitutes a far more serious assault on Armstrong's integrity than anything previously unearthed in the 12 years since he became a global superstar. It also represents a total rupture of formerly strong bonds between the ex-teammates, bonds that once would have seemed impossible to break, whether because of camaraderie or common interest.
The supremely efficient Postal teams of Lance Armstrong's heyday ran on schedule -- his schedule. More than any other organization of that era, they were built on the principle of all for one and one for the Tour de France. Other races were tuneups or afterthoughts, and other individual aspirations were footnotes, if they existed at all. Postal riders were self-effacing and loyal to their leader; the Tour was one big buddy movie on two-wheelers.
[+] EnlargeGeorge Hincapie
PASCAL PAVANI/AFP/Getty ImagesArmstrong, right, and George Hincapie in the Tour of Switzerland cycling race in 2010.
At least it was made to appear that way. What the world was permitted to see of the team off the road was tightly monitored. Minders sat in on interviews. Journalists sympathetic to the team were enlisted to keep tabs on who was saying what in the press room. Hostile journalists were photographed and blacklisted. The Blue Train was also a gravy train that altered the trajectory of many careers. Woe to anyone who tried to derail it by raising doubts that the team was clean.
Through that filter, Hincapie, Hamilton and Landis were all initially viewed as charming sidekicks defined by the roles they played for Armstrong, and they had to work hard to establish separate identities. But Armstrong's grip on their psyches persisted after they left the team, mainly because his power and influence within cycling continued to grow. When Hamilton and Landis were busted for doping in 2004 and 2006, respectively, neither seriously considered telling the truth about his own history or the toxic culture of the sport that had turned cheating into a rational act and lying into a lifestyle.
Both riders fought their positive tests and didn't rat on anyone, confident they had calculated the odds correctly. "If you point your finger at [Armstrong] and a few other people who run the sport, you're not allowed back in," Landis said Friday.
That construct is crumbling before our eyes now. It took the two former Postal lieutenants who had the least to lose -- having already lost so much -- to bring the heaviest sledgehammers to it thus far. The triggers for their confessions and allegations may seem clear-cut: Landis was angry, and Hamilton was subpoenaed to appear before a federal grand jury hearing evidence in the case. But it would be unfair to oversimplify their stories. Both men have suffered for their hubris and mistakes. There are a lot of decent people in cycling who have been warped by its extremes like plywood in the hot sun.
"I know what these guys are about to go through, and it's a rough road," said Frankie Andreu, who five years ago admitted using performance-enhancing drugs to prepare for the 1999 Tour, the race that marked the start of Armstrong's dominance. "I have a lot of respect for them for telling the truth."
Andreu and his wife, Betsy, were once close friends of Armstrong's, but the relationship soured after they testified in a 2005 arbitration hearing that they had heard him tell doctors he had used performance-enhancing drugs when they visited him in the hospital during his cancer treatment in late 1996.
In comments on Friday to VeloNews.com, Andreu said of Hincapie, "You can't find a nicer guy, a more trustworthy guy, a more respected person in the peloton. Lance has ripped apart, attacked and shredded anybody that's said anything against him. I don't know that that would work against George."
Veteran U.S. rider Michael Creed said he observed "a lot of self-hate" in Hamilton while they were briefly teammates at Rock Racing in 2008, and feels compassion for him now.
"Would it make more sense to lie after you get caught, or now?" Creed asked rhetorically. "What makes more sense? I don't think you're ever married to a lie."
Landis, who torpedoed his own credibility more than once in the process of contesting his doping case and then coming clean, said he hoped people would "look at the big picture and try to make a judgment on everything that was happening. ... Don't look at [Hamilton] and work backwards and say, 'This guy must be telling a lie and there must be a reason.'"
The Hincapie report remains unsourced at the moment, and should be regarded differently unless that changes. If it's true that he outed himself, there could be implications for his career, unless the admissions were to fall outside the eight-year anti-doping statute of limitations or a deal has been struck with authorities. What would be his record-tying 16th Tour start looms little more than a month away, and he has spoken recently of wanting to race one more season.
What ultimately matters is not what any media outlet reports Hincapie testified to, but what Hincapie actually said behind closed doors and how it weaves into the vast, sprawling Armstrong odyssey. By virtue of never having been involved in a doping case, Hincapie has a larger reservoir of public goodwill than Hamilton or Landis, and that could make him a more sympathetic figure. He also might engender more fan disappointment, judging by the comments on his Twitter feed.
Those old Postal teams were disciplined. They rode team time trials with geometric precision and they swarmed to the front of the peloton at the base of major climbs, blowing up the group with a high tempo and making sure one or more helpers were with Armstrong on the way up. They protected him. On the rare occasions that he was isolated, it was a jarring sight. This week, it feels like his escort is dwindling.
Bonnie D. Ford covers Olympic sports for ESPN.com. She can be reached at bonniedford@aol.com.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 2:30 pm
From: Davey Crockett
yirgster a écrit profondement:
| Armstrong's tight inner circle crumbles
>
| http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/columns/story?id=6572159
>
That is a good article.
But someone should have advised Flandis and Tugboat that when bad news
hits, the best thing is to meet it head on, dispose of it ASAP, lick
your wounds and carry on trucking.
And Someone should tell Lance Who that the best thing to do when they're
Running You Out Of Town is to get Ahead of the Crowd and make it look
like your leading a Parade.
Davey
--
Ironman anyone?
http://youtu.be/B03dFMG8nR4
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Not Worth the Cost of Integrity
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/9743984c013d36f2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 12:11 pm
From: "truthitalia@yahoo.com"
"I don't hold any grudges," Mercier said about his time in
professional cycling. "I look at what those guys did, and I don't
imagine they feel good or proud about it. But they took things away
from guys like myself, and Darren Baker. I suppose we weren't
'professional' enough. We weren't into winning at all costs. And the
cost to me was my integrity, I wasn't going to give that up."-Scott
Mercier
http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/scott-mercier-former-postal-rider-says-hamiltons-charges-ring-true_174876
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 12:37 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"
========
<truthitalia@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d3027a03-1f63-4b8f-bf8b-069be9932368@j23g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
"I don't hold any grudges," Mercier said about his time in
professional cycling. "I look at what those guys did, and I don't
imagine they feel good or proud about it. But they took things away
from guys like myself, and Darren Baker. I suppose we weren't
'professional' enough. We weren't into winning at all costs. And the
cost to me was my integrity, I wasn't going to give that up."-Scott
Mercier
http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/scott-mercier-former-postal-rider-says-hamiltons-charges-ring-true_174876
========
Life isn't fair. No matter what field you're in, there will be people
cheating to get ahead. There are businesses around me that save boatloads of
$$$ by paying their employees under the table. My lifestyle would be
enhanced were I to do the same, but my ethics won't allow me to cheat like
that. Oh, but it's only the IRS, you'd never get caught, everybody does it.
Yeah right. I know exactly where Mercier is coming from.
But I like who I am, and I wouldn't want to become someone else, even if it
meant I'd be more "successful" by traditional definitions.
We all make choices that reflect upon our values & goals. The tough part,
for many, is living with the ethical standards they're ocmfortable with,
without looking at things in life with a scorecard. I get frustrated at
times, being sometimes less competitive on product because I have
significantly-higher expenses than someone else, but it hasn't driven me to
want to cheat, and when I examine changes to my business to become more
competitive, I always have to look at whether those changes might require
moving long-time ethical boundaries. At some point, the decision could come
that it's just no longer practical to remain in business, just as others
decided they can't remain in cycling at a competitive level. Many would
suggest that the better choice of action, after having invested all these
years in the business (or cycling), would be to do what you have to to level
the playing field. Cheat. But the more-important investment over all those
years is in your ethics.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 1:50 pm
From: "truthitalia@yahoo.com"
On May 21, 3:37 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> ========<truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d3027a03-1f63-4b8f-bf8b-069be9932368@j23g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> "I don't hold any grudges," Mercier said about his time in
> professional cycling. "I look at what those guys did, and I don't
> imagine they feel good or proud about it. But they took things away
> from guys like myself, and Darren Baker. I suppose we weren't
> 'professional' enough. We weren't into winning at all costs. And the
> cost to me was my integrity, I wasn't going to give that up."-Scott
> Mercierhttp://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/scott-mercier-former-post...
> ========
>
> Life isn't fair. No matter what field you're in, there will be people
> cheating to get ahead. There are businesses around me that save boatloads of
> $$$ by paying their employees under the table. My lifestyle would be
> enhanced were I to do the same, but my ethics won't allow me to cheat like
> that. Oh, but it's only the IRS, you'd never get caught, everybody does it.
> Yeah right. I know exactly where Mercier is coming from.
>
> But I like who I am, and I wouldn't want to become someone else, even if it
> meant I'd be more "successful" by traditional definitions.
>
> We all make choices that reflect upon our values & goals. The tough part,
> for many, is living with the ethical standards they're ocmfortable with,
> without looking at things in life with a scorecard. I get frustrated at
> times, being sometimes less competitive on product because I have
> significantly-higher expenses than someone else, but it hasn't driven me to
> want to cheat, and when I examine changes to my business to become more
> competitive, I always have to look at whether those changes might require
> moving long-time ethical boundaries. At some point, the decision could come
> that it's just no longer practical to remain in business, just as others
> decided they can't remain in cycling at a competitive level. Many would
> suggest that the better choice of action, after having invested all these
> years in the business (or cycling), would be to do what you have to to level
> the playing field. Cheat. But the more-important investment over all those
> years is in your ethics.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
Thanks for sharing, MIke. How are the Trek sales going?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Giro d'Italia, stage 14 summary
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/fb72f45bc5f05c72?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 12:17 pm
From: Bob Martin
Stage 14 : May 21, Lienz - Monte Zoncolan, 210 km
1 Igor Anton Hernandez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 5.04.26
2 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Saxo Bank Sungard 0.33
3 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale 0.40
4 Michele Scarponi (Ita) Lampre - ISD 1.11
5 Denis Menchov (Rus) Geox-TMC 1.21
6 John Gadret (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 1.38
7 Mikel Nieve Ituralde (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 1.52
8 Hubert Dupont (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 1.55
9 Kanstantsin Sivtsov (Blr) HTC-Highroad 2.05
10 Jose Rujano Guillen (Ven) Androni Giocattoli 2.11
Changes in GC, stage 14 compared to stage 13 :
Biggest gainers by position :
+17 Rinaldo Nocentini
+17 Maxim Belkov
+16 Matteo Rabottini
+13 Danilo Di Luca
+11 Matteo Montaguti
+11 Jerome Pineau
+11 Gianluca Brambilla
+10 Jorge Azanza Soto
+10 Gorazd Stangelj
+9 Marcel Wyss
Biggest losers by position :
-12 Pablo Lastras Garcia
-12 Pieter Weening
-11 Francesco Masciarelli
-11 Kevin Seeldrayers
-10 Stefano Garzelli
-8 Fabio Taborre
-7 Marco Marzano
-7 Sergey Lagutin
-6 David Arroyo Duran
-6 Julien Berard
-6 Luis Pasamontes Rodriguez
Biggest gainers by time :
+0:41 Igor Anton Hernandez
Biggest losers by time :
-26:33 Kevin Seeldrayers
-22:02 Alexander Kristoff
-21:28 Cameron Meyer
-21:28 Kasper Klostergaard Larsen
-21:28 Laurent Didier
-21:28 Manuel Antonio Leal Cardoso
-21:28 Matteo Tosatto
-21:28 Michael Christiansen Morkov
-21:28 Miguel Minguez Ayala
-20:49 Alex Rasmussen
-20:49 Frantisek Rabon
Favourites by position :
+13 Danilo Di Luca
+8 Richie Porte
+4 Denis Menchov
+3 Lars Ytting Bak
+2 Daniel Moreno Fernandez
+1 Thomas Lovkvist
+1 Carlos Sastre Candil
-1 Michele Scarponi
-4 Roman Kreuziger
-6 David Arroyo Duran
-10 Stefano Garzelli
Favourites by time :
-0:11 Vincenzo Nibali
-0:50 Michele Scarponi
-1:00 Denis Menchov
-3:11 Roman Kreuziger
-3:18 David Arroyo Duran
-5:11 Daniel Moreno Fernandez
-5:43 Thomas Lovkvist
-7:05 Danilo Di Luca
-8:53 Carlos Sastre Candil
-15:52 Richie Porte
-16:51 Stefano Garzelli
-18:07 Lars Ytting Bak
-20:49 Frantisek Rabon
Top 10 and favourites GC standings (previous stage in parens) :
1 Alberto Contador Velasco 54:45:45 (unchanged)
2 Vincenzo Nibali 3:20 (was 2nd at 3:09)
3 Igor Anton Hernandez 3:21 (was 7th at 4:02)
4 Michele Scarponi 4:06 (was 3rd at 3:16)
5 John Gadret 5:23 (was 8th at 4:06)
6 Kanstantsin Siutsou 5:37 (was 6th at 3:53)
7 Denis Menchov 6:06 (was 11th at 5:06)
8 Hubert Dupont 6:12 (was 10th at 4:38)
9 Roman Kreuziger 6:40 (was 5th at 3:29)
10 David Arroyo Duran 6:43 (was 4th at 3:25)
.....
21 Thomas Lovkvist 13:24 (was 22nd at 7:41)
.....
27 Carlos Sastre Candil 21:41 (was 28th at 12:48)
28 Daniel Moreno Fernandez 22:57 (was 30th at 17:46)
29 Stefano Garzelli 23:31 (was 19th at 6:40)
.....
68 Danilo Di Luca 1:04:33 (was 81st at 57:28)
.....
105 Richie Porte 1:33:38 (was 113rd at 1:17:46)
.....
139 Lars Ytting Bak 1:54:31 (was 142nd at 1:36:24)
.....
163 Frantisek Rabon 2:16:14 (was 163rd at 1:55:25)
Top 10 on Points table with previous in parens:
1 Jan Bakelants 12 (unchanged)
2 Pablo Lastras Garcia 10 (unchanged)
3 Daniel Moreno Fernandez 5 (unchanged)
4 Matteo Montaguti 5 (unchanged)
5 Fumiyuki Beppu 5 (unchanged)
6 Sebastian Lang 5 (unchanged)
7 Kristof Vandewalle 5 (unchanged)
8 Mirko Selvaggi 5 (unchanged)
9 Matteo Tosatto 5 (unchanged)
10 Matteo Rabottini 5 (was 0 points)
Top 10 on Mountains table with previous in parens:
1 Alberto Contador Velasco 33 (was 1st with 24 points)
2 Gianluca Brambilla 27 (was 12th with 8 points)
3 Jose Rujano Guillen 24 (was 2nd with 24 points)
4 Branislau Samoilau 19 (was 3rd with 19 points)
5 Filippo Savini 18 (was 4th with 16 points)
6 Igor Anton Hernandez 15 (was 0 points)
7 Michele Scarponi 15 (was 6th with 12 points)
8 Robert Kiserlovski 14 (was 5th with 12 points)
9 Bart De Clercq 11 (was 7th with 11 points)
10 Vincenzo Nibali 11 (was 17th with 6 points)
Retirements to date : Stage
Andrea Noe' (Ita) Farnese Vini - Neri Sottoli 14 <<<
Francesco Chicchi (Ita) Quickstep Cycling Team 14 <<<
Rafael Valls Ferri (Spa) Geox-TMC 14 <<<
Alessandro Petacchi (Ita) Lampre - ISD 13
Danilo Hondo (Ger) Lampre - ISD 13
Davide Appollonio (Ukn) Sky Procycling 13
Francisco Jose Ventoso Alberdi (Spa) Movistar Team 13
Gerald Ciolek (Ger) Quickstep Cycling Team 13
Manuel Belletti (Ita) Colnago - CSF Inox 13
Mark Cavendish (GBr) HTC-Highroad 13
Mark Renshaw (Aus) HTC-Highroad 13
Martin Kohler (Swi) BMC Racing Team 13
Sacha Modolo (Ukn) Colnago - CSF Inox 13
Borut Bozic (Slo) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team 11
Danilo Napolitano (Ita) Acqua & Sapone 11
Adam Blyth (GBr) Omega Pharma-Lotto 10
Chris Butler (USA) BMC Racing Team 9
Graeme Brown (Aus) Rabobank Cycling Team 9
Jackson Rodriguez (Ven) Androni Giocattoli 9
Robbie McEwen (Aus) Team RadioShack 9
Fabio Andres Duarte Arevalo (Col) Geox-TMC 8
Brice Feillu (Fra) Leopard Trek 5
Bruno Pires (Por) Leopard Trek 5
Chris Barton (USA) BMC Racing Team 5
Davide ViganA² (Ita) Leopard Trek 5
Dominic Klemme (Ger) Leopard Trek 5
Fabian Wegmann (Ger) Leopard Trek 5
Francesco Failli (Ita) Farnese Vini - Neri Sottoli 5
Oliver Zaugg (Swi) Leopard Trek 5
Thomas Rohregger (Aut) Leopard Trek 5
Tom Slagter (Ned) Rabobank Cycling Team 5
Tom Stamsnijder (Ned) Leopard Trek 5
Tyler Farrar (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo 5
Wouter Weylandt (Bel) Leopard Trek 3
Total retirements : 34
(This report can also be seen at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rvmartin2)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lance Gunderson's Future Employment
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a0091e5139d56387?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 2:02 pm
From: "truthitalia@yahoo.com"
After Lance has all his ill gotten gains taken by the Feds, what will
he do for employment. Sugestions please. Some that come to mind,
1. Gunderson's Snowball Stand
2. Gunderson's Plano Fix a Flat
3. Gunderson's Famous Sperm Donor Center
4. Gunderson's Shoe Shine (At an AMTRAK location near you --
franchises available)
5. Gunderson's FuckTard Twelve Step Program
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 2:28 pm
From: Substance McGravitas
On 5/21/2011 2:02 PM, truthitalia@yahoo.com wrote:
> After Lance has all his ill gotten gains taken by the Feds, what will
> he do for employment. Sugestions please. Some that come to mind,
>
> 1. Gunderson's Snowball Stand
> 2. Gunderson's Plano Fix a Flat
> 3. Gunderson's Famous Sperm Donor Center
> 4. Gunderson's Shoe Shine (At an AMTRAK location near you --
> franchises available)
> 5. Gunderson's FuckTard Twelve Step Program
Which raises the question: What are YOU going to do when this is all
over? Have you got a fallback obsession?
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