Friend's home: 05/22/11

Sunday, May 22, 2011

rec.bicycles.racing - 26 new messages in 13 topics - digest

rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best 60 minutes EVER! - Double segment needed to cover just the outer
layer of the Armstrong bullshit.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/1d5ef645f0221159?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 6:52 pm
From: Brad Anders

On May 22, 6:35 pm, Substance McGravitas <F...@Burger.com> wrote:
> On 5/22/2011 4:45 PM, Anton Berlin wrote:
>
> > On May 22, 6:41 pm, Brad Anders<pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On May 22, 1:55 pm, Anton Berlin<truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>> ... to gain an advantage in races that Armstrong
> >>> won.
>
> >> Let me fix that for you:
>
> >> "... to gain the same advantage in races that all the other top
> >> competitors had, in races that Armstrong won."
>
> >> There, that's a lot more accurate.
>
> > That's from 60 minutes not me.
>
> Brad's version is closer to what TH actually said.

Just watched the segment. For the most part, I think Tyler is
accurately relating what he saw and what happened. However, I fault 60
Minutes for not probing further when Tyler repeatedly said that what
LA was doing (and the whole Postal team, as well as Tyler), was no
different from any other top teams. They did scratch at it when they
asked Tyler about his initial motivations for doping, but they failed
in relating to the public exactly what the "culture of cycling" was
that Tyler kept talking about. IMO, that culture lives on today, and
anyone who thinks things are somehow "clean" needs to eat a good
Spanish steak. It also would have been instructive to discuss how that
"culture" fed into the US culture of winners and losers. LA clearly
understood that a clean loser is still a loser, and that nobody in the
US gives a shit about a loser, no matter what the circumstances are.
Again, I suggest to anyone who doubts this to read "The Unfair
Advantage" by celebrated race driver Mark Donohue, who goes into
detail describing how he and Roger Penske bent every rule sideways and
beyond to win races. To come out a decade later in the case of LA and
screech "fraud" is completely unjustified. US Postal got EXACTLY what
they paid for, and they knew what the score was from day one.

Where Tyler lost me was when he said that the reason he didn't 'fess
up after getting nailed for homologous blood doping was to "protect
the team". Bull Fucking Shit. Tyler's concern was his own ass, as well-
documented by his actions at the time. He's coming clean now because
he was tossed a deal, sees a way to jack it into a 6-figure book deal,
and expand his "clean" training business. He's as dirty as Landis, as
dirty as Armstrong, and as dirty as any other pro at the highest
levels.

IMO, I still haven't heard a thing that convinces me that LA and his
attorneys won't be able to dodge the bullet. Even the famous TdS dope
test results seem to be a bust. I didn't hear Tyler say word one as to
where the dope came from or how it was paid for, perhaps he did so to
the GJ, maybe not. Maybe it will come out in the eventual Fed case
against LA and his minions.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CycleSport--The Endgame Begins
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/818def765394c726?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 6:54 pm
From: ilan

On May 22, 10:31 pm, Trey <treypelo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 21, 10:11 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > <truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:5a69a904-c743-46c6-8aae-2dceddd30016@32g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
> > On May 21, 3:45 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > <truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:1b7bde0a-94b1-4cf0-8eb0-a4e9edb3a145@bl1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > >http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/lance-armstrong-the-end...
>
> > > "And together we all allowed one man to dominate the sport, to its
> > > detriment."
>
> > > What detriment? The sport grew tremendously while Lance was winning
> > > his 7
> > > TdFs. The detriment of scandal? Something in any way unusual for
> > > bicycle
> > > racing from an historical context? The detriment of having an American
> > > beating the Euros at their own game? The detriment, if true, of
> > > learning
> > > from the Festina scandal and finding a better way to cheat?
>
> > > What was it "we" allowed? What were "we" supposed to do? If Lance
> > > doped, he
> > > didn't win 7 TdFs because he doped. He won because he had a system in
> > > place
> > > that other teams lacked. Other teams that most certainly were doping
> > > at the
> > > time (as proven by those who were caught). To the extent we gave him
> > > sainthood, sure, guilty on that one. But it's absurd to suggest that
> > > cycling
> > > suffered greatly due to Lance, or that any one thing Lance did caused
> > > that
> > > to happen.
>
> > > --Mike Jacoubowsky
> > > Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> > > Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
> > >>Thanks for sharing your utterly vapid, amoral position on what
> > >>Armstrong and Co. did, Mike. How many Treks and how much profit did
> > >>you make off Trek/Lance product during the lying years?
>
> > Nothing gets past you, does it? Other than addressing the conversation
> > at hand that is. That's twice today. Why is it more important on rbr to
> > score insults than intelligence?
>
> > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Why won't you accept that you are a doping profiteer? None of the
> Lance apologists ever asked any questions while he was winning and
> growing the sport. You benefitted tremendously if you sold Treks
> during that era - which it appears you did. What you need to realize
> is that he grew the sport ONLY because he cheated his ass off - better
> than anyone else in his era. But those gains were all artificial. Just
> like the housing bubble. All the assholes selling and taking out
> adjustable mortgages just wanted to ride the train and didn't want to
> ask any questions when property values were rising. You are one of
> those assholes. Face it and repent.

Whether Lance doped or not has nothing to do with the quality of the
bike. If anything, it means that the bike is even better, because it
is able to withstand the stress of an even stronger rider.

Cycling is one of the rare sports in which anyone with a modest amount
of money can buy exactly the same vehicle as the world's #1 racer. In
the US and the UK, this is currently one of the reasons for the
sport's recent growth, the rise of MAMILS. The direct result is
positive health benefits, as opposed to the previous middle aged
crisis where men bought sports cars.

No matter whether Armstrong cheated, and no actual proof has been
brought despite his conviction here and in the media, his career has
led to direct health benefits to the world.

-ilan

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 7:18 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"

"Anton Berlin" <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:418ec8f9-50b6-4a4b-85f5-143700a6a0c1@g12g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>I am OK with Mike selling bikes.
>
> Please someone give Mike some water when he regains consciousness.

Thanks. I didn't drink enough on today's ride.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Jersey For Road Biking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/80613f4a58c6d23d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 7:05 pm
From: kolldata

the golden Tdf short sleeve from Russel iza bargain. I have several
excellent dye job. when you buy from a campmor buy several or a
lifetime's worth if you have it and want itlike go back again for more
caws there may not be more ever.
last year at the TdC, we ran down to Sacrementos' Arbuttretoreum for a
second stage after Auburn. Columbia ( Campmor) and I believe another
important racer stood up in a line across the blvd and gave us all a
big wave at the 90 end of the park. we were observed by police for ???
after aMom reported us for ??? when we were glooming the trees.

and off course

http://www.rei.com/search?cat=4500124&cat=4500832&hist=cat%2C4500124%3AMen%27s+Cycling+Clothes%5Ecat%2C4500832%3ABike+Jerseys

the poly cotton dayglos may be history.

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 7:13 pm
From: kolldata

New Mexico and Arizona are acceptable but the rest yuk. make ya think
abt getting into the jersey design
biz

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 7:30 pm
From: ilan

On May 23, 2:21 am, Chess Gator <chessga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> What are the few best short sleeve cycling jerseys for road biking
> approximately 100 kms?
>
> I know there are several companies, such as Sugoi and Louis Garneau.
> Each company has so many jerseys, are there a couple that stand out as
> the best ones?
>
> And where in Canada or the US is the best place to buy them?
>
> Thank you

This website gives all the required information:
http://www.flammerouge.je/content/0_home/home.htm

-ilan

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 7:38 pm
From: thirty-six

On May 23, 1:21 am, Chess Gator <chessga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> What are the few best short sleeve cycling jerseys for road biking
> approximately 100 kms?
>
> I know there are several companies, such as Sugoi and Louis Garneau.
> Each company has so many jerseys, are there a couple that stand out as
> the best ones?
>
> And where in Canada or the US is the best place to buy them?
>
> Thank you

Make sure it closes on your neck arms and hips so no bee can fluster
you. Go for pockets for your inner tube, banana and cereal bar if you
wont use a bar bag. Something pretty, something bright, the choice is
yours. Just be comfortable with yourself that you can wear the design
where you wish to eat or shop when riding. The best place to buy
clothing is where you can try it on for fit. Material choice is
generally not so important with a short sleeve as long as it has some
heat retention for if you get caught riding at dusk.

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 8:22 pm
From: Anne Onime

Chess Gator wrote:

> What are the few best short sleeve cycling jerseys
> for road biking approximately 100 kms?
>

http://www.aerotechdesigns.com/bikejersey.htm#atdsolid
http://www.ibexwear.com/shop/product/2031/7257/mens-indie-ss-cycling-jersey
http://www.kucharikclothing.com/-c-43_78.html
http://www.twinsix.com/gear/mens-tech/s-s-wool-motor-jersey

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 8:27 pm
From: kolldata

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1149&bih=609&q=SEATTLE+FABRICS&aq=f&aqi=g8g-v2&aql=&oq=

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 8:28 pm
From: kolldata

On May 22, 9:38 pm, thirty-six <thirty-...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> On May 23, 1:21 am, Chess Gator <chessga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > What are the few best short sleeve cycling jerseys for road biking
> > approximately 100 kms?
>
> > I know there are several companies, such as Sugoi and Louis Garneau.
> > Each company has so many jerseys, are there a couple that stand out as
> > the best ones?
>
> > And where in Canada or the US is the best place to buy them?
>
> > Thank you
>
> Make sure it closes on your neck arms and hips so no bee can fluster
> you. Go for pockets for your inner tube, banana and cereal bar if you
> wont use a bar bag. Something pretty, something bright, the choice is
> yours. Just be comfortable with yourself that you can wear the design
> where you wish to eat or shop when riding. The best place to buy
> clothing is where you can try it on for fit. Material choice is
> generally not so important with a short sleeve as long as it has some
> heat retention for if you get caught riding at dusk.

HEAT RETENTION !? where are you riding ?

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 8:29 pm
From: Tºm Shermªn™ °_° <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net">

On 5/22/2011 7:21 PM, Chess Gator wrote:
> Hi,
>
> What are the few best short sleeve cycling jerseys for road biking
> approximately 100 kms?
>
> I know there are several companies, such as Sugoi and Louis Garneau.
> Each company has so many jerseys, are there a couple that stand out as
> the best ones?
>
> And where in Canada or the US is the best place to buy them?
>
> Thank you

Where have you gone, Fabrizio Mazzoleni?

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 8:35 pm
From: Anton Berlin

There should be some authentic Tour de France yellow jerseys for sale
on EBAY soon to pay for someone's legal defense.

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 8:36 pm
From: Tºm Shermªn™ °_° <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net">

Here you go:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

SPAM™ JERSEY

#6312 - YOU CAN BE A MOVING BILLBOARD WITH THIS COLORFUL SPAM™
JERSEY. 19" HIDDEN ZIPPER, 100% POLYESTER DRY SPORT WICKING FABRIC &
THREE REAR POCKETS. GREAT FOR A CYCLIST OR THE SPAM™ FAN IN YOUR FAMILY!

<http://www.spam.com/Shop/ProductDetail.aspx?Category={C52499DB-B1AE-4497-8556-B65B7A7F09F6}&Product={1AAAB882-CB02-4C44-B407-87A4D31872CA}&Search=>

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Reason why Lance stuff drags and drags and drags
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e8323d32b5f0dc5c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 7:09 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"

Trying to figure out why this whole mess has taken so long, why it
wasn't over and done with years ago. There's so much stuff flying out
there, from David Walsh to Novitsky to 60 minutes to whatever. And then,
reading through the recent threads here, something became obvious.
Consider the three different focuses of people wanting to see Lance
drawn & quartered-

#1: Those who hate Lance because he's too successful, and they see
success as a sort of arrogance that should be put down.
#2: Those who want Lance punished because they believe he doped and they
see doping as a terrible thing in cycling.
#3: Those who want Lance punished because he was part of a mis-use of
public monies

Obviously there are combinations of the three, but the problem is that
people like Walsh don't really care about the money, and the money
people often don't really care about the doping. The multi-pronged
approach, instead of making a case against Lance stronger, actually
dilutes it because people either don't understand it or don't buy into
the total package. The exception would be those in the first camp; they
don't need any more evidence than they had when Lance won his first TdF
(or maybe his second or third, if I want to be charitable). They saw
something that didn't add up and to them, it's about time the world
caught up to their way of thinking. They're probably the most-frustrated
of all (because of how long this has been drawn out).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 60 Minutes
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/70a5b594709f39a0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 7:13 pm
From: ilan

I stopped taking 60 Minutes seriously at least 25 years ago. One of
their reporters was trying to imply that some guy died because of
exposure to something, and he was interviewing a doctor and asked him:
"What did he die of?", doctor answers: "We don't know." Then
interviewer insists: "But he must have died of something." Doctor:
"Actually, there is a fair percentage of people who come into an
emergency room and die and no one ever figures out why." Interviewer
is dumbfounded.....

Or maybe it was Alar http://fumento.com/alar/alar1.html

No, those were just examples of (well meaning) incompetence. You can
never take that programme seriously after the "sudden acceleration
syndrome" episode in which they cheated in order to fool people into
believing something impossible, and in doing so did considerable
damage to a company's sales http://www.automobile.com/audi-investigated-for-unintended-acceleration.html

-ilan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Not Worth the Cost of Integrity
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/9743984c013d36f2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 7:14 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"

>"Trey" <treypelotas@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:421162c0-1c38-4156-a264-6d0ccfbbb5c2@r35g2000prj.googlegroups.com...
>Denial is a river in Egypt bro.

Been there, done that.
https://picasaweb.google.com/ChainReactionBicycles/Egypt#5547414263107202706

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do you believe Tyler?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/fe5343d7a3875ed5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 7:21 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"

8: I've never trusted Klingons, and I never will.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Right now on 60 Minutes - Hamilton, Hincapie and Lance's own god damn
mother rat him out
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/e10ee563f95884bb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 8:06 pm
From: Zenon

On May 22, 4:03 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> She looks amazingly like every woman he's ever dated . Says he also
> lied about stealing cookies when he was 4 and ironically referred to
> him as a "son of a bitch"

:
:
This is what Lance's mom will look like after they're done with him:
:
http://tinyurl.com/3emwvzu
:
:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Clean Winners of the Tour de France - as far as we know.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f80794803424a89e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 8:08 pm
From: Fredmaster of Brainerd

On May 22, 2:17 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 22, 8:05 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Really? You're more gullible than I thought. "Clean"? It's an
> > > illusion, you have no idea at all if these guys are "clean", and
> > > there's every indication that they're not. Your "evidence" of no
> > > allegations/implications is simply silly - anyone who was in top 20 on
> > > GC in a GT for the past couple of decades is suspect, and more than
> > > likely a doper. Just what it takes to be in that group.
>
> > I agree - just making the point.
>
> OK, but then don't add the disclaimer "as far as we know".

Dumbasses,

The last clean winner of the Tour de France was Roger
Walkowiak, who won in 1956.

Walkowiak was an unknown rider who got into a long break
and then was unexpectedly able to defend his lead.
(Ironically, wikipedia claims his victory was widely derided
because he wasn't a big star and won without ... panache.)
Given his unknown pedigree and the state of cycling at the time,
it's fairly safe to say that Walkowiak would have had a doping
programme much less sophisticated than the favorites of
the day - he might not have been able to afford much of a
doping programme at all.

So although we can't say with certainty that Walkowiak was
clean, he was probably cleaner than his contemporaries, thus
we may declare him clean by the standards of professional
cycling. Definitely more so than any of his successors, all of
whom are under suspicion, as are their companions on the
lower steps of the podium.

It is a tragedy that the Tour de France was ever run and won
again after Walkowiak's honest victory. It would have been
better for cycling (and for honest bike-mongers, who would
hardly want to sell products ridden by a dirty dog doper) if the
Tour had stopped in 1956. I hope and trust that cycling's
bout of self-examination will result in a retroactive re-ranking
of the results that disqualifies the winners of the last 54 Tours.

Sincerely,
Fredmaster Ben

==============================================================================
TOPIC: No Mountain High Enough
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3a1c79ec640838d7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 8:19 pm
From: Zenon

No mountain high enough - my ass!!!

http://www.bigspeak.com/linda-armstrong-kelly.html

She'll look like this in a few months: http://tinyurl.com/3emwvzu

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 8:33 pm
From: Anton Berlin

Mother of the biggest fraud in the history of sport.

Makes a Gunderson proud.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Biggest Crock Of Shit Ever
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/afa255d3032a99cd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 8:25 pm
From: Zenon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM95MNUyoR0

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 8:32 pm
From: NoDannyNo

On May 22, 11:25 pm, Zenon <zenon_jask...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM95MNUyoR0

Pretty soon, maybe they can add a segment to that schlock called "What
To Do While Your Son Is Being Ass-Pounded In The Booty House"

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ditch Tyler; focus on the Tour de Swiss evidence
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/28ef3f5490b08d44?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 8:27 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"

Tyler doesn't come across as believable; his blinking, his pauses when
answering questions, and his statement about losing his epo virginity to
the white lunchbag and then later acting as if it was this big thing
"reaching out" to Lance for epo... either that was bad editing by 60
minutes or just one more thing about Tyler that causes me to question
anything he says. It was also a bit misleading when 60 minutes initially
mentions, in passing, that Tyler's writing a book, but later, when they
ask about motivations for coming out, the book isn't mentioned.

But the Tour de Swiss stuff... if there's a real trail there, that's
what I would go with. Skip anything that's a he-said she-said thing and
give us the "dope" on the UCI. Let's just hope it's more than Lance's
donation though.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 8:37 pm
From: Anton Berlin

I agree with his pauses and looking away but the more he did it the
more I realized that's who he is. It doesn't look good but clearly
he's very uncomfortable with the subject. As well, the bright lights
of the camera can be a part of that. Making ones eyes uncomfortable
and sweat like George Costanza.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lance Needs Energy!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/aee6c6934c561b28?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 8:37 pm
From: Zenon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXK4I82qutw

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[socialactionfoundationforequity:13898 Nobel Laureates Speak Out on Climate Change

Dear Comrade,

'Nobel Laureates Speak Out' on Climate Change is a very informative Article on the subject. The Article and the comments made on the Article are all available in the kink below. The intersting part is that they cover interlinking of poverty , development, inequality etc with Climate and suggest reversal of the harmful mode or policy of development forthwith.

Pl. read the Article in the link below

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2011/05/nobel-laureates-speak-out-2/#more-7768

--

डा वी एन शर्मा / Dr.V.N.Sharma
Cell No.9431102680,

Member, Secretariat, All India Forum for Right to Education (AIF-RTE),

Working Committee Member, Jan Sansad &
Co-ordinator, Jharkhand Shanti evam Nyaya Yatra (JSNY)

--
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. - Mohandas Gandhi

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rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: THIS IS GOOD FOR CYCLING
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3008cbe175a20b1a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 4:26 pm
From: Anton Berlin

Hopefully the cunts in the UCI get in the ass next.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: It's not about the Lance
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/ec5763250f6ec3cf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 4:27 pm
From: Anton Berlin

But it's nice to see that he's the first one to go on the guillotine
of truth.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 4:45 pm
From: William Fred

Anton Berlin <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in news:686aea46-1867-469b-af65-
2e7651b1c634@r20g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:

> guillotine of truth.

Holy shit! You're Charlie Sheen. It all fits now.

--
Bill Fred

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 4:46 pm
From: Anton Berlin

Blood boosting with Tiger Blood - I invented that !

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 4:31 pm
From: William Fred

Anton Berlin <truth_88888@yahoo.com> wrote in news:183dae53-46b9-40c6-8b80-
665f3860c080@w10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:

>
> I hope they dig into his phoney cancer foundation next.
>

And I'll bet your girlfriend is already asking herself "Why the hell can't
he throw the used tissues away for himself?"

--
Bill Fred

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 4:41 pm
From: Brad Anders

On May 22, 1:55 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ... to gain an advantage in races that Armstrong
> won.

Let me fix that for you:

"... to gain the same advantage in races that all the other top
competitors had, in races that Armstrong won."

There, that's a lot more accurate.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 4:45 pm
From: Anton Berlin

On May 22, 6:41 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 22, 1:55 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > ... to gain an advantage in races that Armstrong
> > won.
>
> Let me fix that for you:
>
> "... to gain the same advantage in races that all the other top
> competitors had, in races that Armstrong won."
>
> There, that's a lot more accurate.

That's from 60 minutes not me.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 6:35 pm
From: Substance McGravitas

On 5/22/2011 4:45 PM, Anton Berlin wrote:
> On May 22, 6:41 pm, Brad Anders<pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On May 22, 1:55 pm, Anton Berlin<truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ... to gain an advantage in races that Armstrong
>>> won.
>>
>> Let me fix that for you:
>>
>> "... to gain the same advantage in races that all the other top
>> competitors had, in races that Armstrong won."
>>
>> There, that's a lot more accurate.
>
> That's from 60 minutes not me.

Brad's version is closer to what TH actually said.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 6:48 pm
From: NoDannyNo

On May 22, 9:35 pm, Substance McGravitas <F...@Burger.com> wrote:
> On 5/22/2011 4:45 PM, Anton Berlin wrote:
>
> > On May 22, 6:41 pm, Brad Anders<pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On May 22, 1:55 pm, Anton Berlin<truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>> ... to gain an advantage in races that Armstrong
> >>> won.
>
> >> Let me fix that for you:
>
> >> "... to gain the same advantage in races that all the other top
> >> competitors had, in races that Armstrong won."
>
> >> There, that's a lot more accurate.
>
> > That's from 60 minutes not me.
>
> Brad's version is closer to what TH actually said.

Frankie said it better. For the most part, Hamilton was a disaster in
front of the camera. With all his blinking, pausing, and caveat-
spewing he came off as weak and totally lacking in self-assurance. No
wonder the Armstrong PR machine eats guys like him and Flandis for
breakfast.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 6:52 pm
From: Brad Anders

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 4:43 pm
From: William Fred

Trey <treypelotas@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:4a6182d1-0c66-489e-ad36-51a265458f42@q14g2000prh.googlegroups.com:

> Why won't you accept that you are a doping profiteer? None of the
> Lance apologists ever asked any questions while he was winning and
> growing the sport. You benefitted tremendously if you sold Treks
> during that era - which it appears you did. What you need to realize
> is that he grew the sport ONLY because he cheated his ass off - better
> than anyone else in his era. But those gains were all artificial. Just
> like the housing bubble. All the assholes selling and taking out
> adjustable mortgages just wanted to ride the train and didn't want to
> ask any questions when property values were rising. You are one of
> those assholes. Face it and repent.

Just like the housing bubble, where the people riding the train sold
$600,000 homes to people making $80,000/yr, there were a lot more stupid
people who bought rides on the train. Mike sold bicycles to people who
wanted them. That doesn't sound particularly immoral to me. Anyway, you
sound like you're mad that you bought a Madone and now are ashamed to
ride it. It's still a nice bike, maybe you could get it repainted or
just tell people it was one of the models built to Hincapie's specs? But
then, I can afford to be calm about this since I never bought a Madone or
really got emotionally invested one way or the other in Armstrong.

--
Bill Fred

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 4:48 pm
From: Anton Berlin

I am OK with Mike selling bikes.

Please someone give Mike some water when he regains consciousness.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Unibrow vs Uniball
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/a505d37bbc4110ac?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 4:45 pm
From: Anton Berlin

Looks like Frankie has the upper hand and an Epilady now.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Giro sucks without Chris Horner - he is the only cyclist in the
world that could counter Contrador.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/76111c904e3be045?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 5:03 pm
From: Scott

On May 22, 1:12 pm, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> On May 22, 11:03 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 21, 9:55 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Yo, Anton...
>
> > > Still feel like raggin' on Horner?
>
> > I haven't been watching the bike ride in California. There's a race
> > in Italy going on.
>
> I thought foregone conclusions didn't qualify to be included in the
> 'race' category.
>
> R

It's not a foregone conclusion... AC himself keeps reminding us of
that!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 60 MIn Nails the Coffin Partly Shut
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/eff431b1dfc38031?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 5:14 pm
From: "truthitalia@yahoo.com"

The Feds will now finish.

Evidence of large payemtns to Ferrari as late as 2010.
Affidavit from head of Swiss lab that came up with an Armstrong
positive for EPO. A totally inappropriate meeting by Johan and
Gunderson with the lab head. Followed by a $25K "donation" to the UCI.
And the UCI says it didn't happen. Oh, this is going to be fun

Valencia--I remember at the time of Operation Puerto, Charles Pelky
told me Postal had a similar operation in Valencia. And the flight
logs to Valencia by Gunderson's private flight are already in the Feds
hands from what I've heard elsewhere. Has Charles spoken with
Novitsky?

Gunderson is going down. Good to see what criminal law and subpoena
power can do.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 5:36 pm
From: dave a

On 5/22/2011 5:14 PM, truthitalia@yahoo.com wrote:
> The Feds will now finish.
>
> Evidence of large payemtns to Ferrari as late as 2010.
> Affidavit from head of Swiss lab that came up with an Armstrong
> positive for EPO. A totally inappropriate meeting by Johan and
> Gunderson with the lab head. Followed by a $25K "donation" to the UCI.
> And the UCI says it didn't happen. Oh, this is going to be fun
>
> Valencia--I remember at the time of Operation Puerto, Charles Pelky
> told me Postal had a similar operation in Valencia. And the flight
> logs to Valencia by Gunderson's private flight are already in the Feds
> hands from what I've heard elsewhere. Has Charles spoken with
> Novitsky?
>
> Gunderson is going down. Good to see what criminal law and subpoena
> power can do.

So are you saying that 60 minutes uncovered new evidence that Novitsky
hasn't? This should be old news to the feds considering how long they
have been on the case. Given that it is old news, where's the
indictment? Have you spoken to Novitsky? If not, why? With your legal
expertise and inside knowledge, I would think that you could be a star
witness.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 6:50 pm
From: Substance McGravitas

On 5/22/2011 5:36 PM, dave a wrote:
> On 5/22/2011 5:14 PM, truthitalia@yahoo.com wrote:
>> The Feds will now finish.
>>
>> Evidence of large payemtns to Ferrari as late as 2010.
>> Affidavit from head of Swiss lab that came up with an Armstrong
>> positive for EPO. A totally inappropriate meeting by Johan and
>> Gunderson with the lab head. Followed by a $25K "donation" to the UCI.
>> And the UCI says it didn't happen. Oh, this is going to be fun
>>
>> Valencia--I remember at the time of Operation Puerto, Charles Pelky
>> told me Postal had a similar operation in Valencia. And the flight
>> logs to Valencia by Gunderson's private flight are already in the Feds
>> hands from what I've heard elsewhere. Has Charles spoken with
>> Novitsky?
>>
>> Gunderson is going down. Good to see what criminal law and subpoena
>> power can do.
>
> So are you saying that 60 minutes uncovered new evidence that Novitsky
> hasn't?

This is all brand new stuff for Brian. Before this he thought Lance was
clean and only said otherwise for the sake of argument. The "60 Minutes"
report enlightened him and now he knows better.

I'm a little fuzzy on why flying to Valencia is illegal, but it sounds
like they've got him nailed for that one COLD!

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 5:21 pm
From: Chess Gator

Hi,

What are the few best short sleeve cycling jerseys for road biking
approximately 100 kms?

I know there are several companies, such as Sugoi and Louis Garneau.
Each company has so many jerseys, are there a couple that stand out as
the best ones?

And where in Canada or the US is the best place to buy them?

Thank you

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 5:59 pm
From: "Steve Freides"

Chess Gator wrote:
> Hi,
>
> What are the few best short sleeve cycling jerseys for road biking
> approximately 100 kms?
>
> I know there are several companies, such as Sugoi and Louis Garneau.
> Each company has so many jerseys, are there a couple that stand out as
> the best ones?
>
> And where in Canada or the US is the best place to buy them?
>
> Thank you

You want to ask this question on news:rec.bicycling.clothing or
news:rec.bicycling.fashion

-S-

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 6:19 pm
From: NoDannyNo

On May 22, 8:21 pm, Chess Gator <chessga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> What are the few best short sleeve cycling jerseys for road biking
> approximately 100 kms?
>
> I know there are several companies, such as Sugoi and Louis Garneau.
> Each company has so many jerseys, are there a couple that stand out as
> the best ones?
>
> And where in Canada or the US is the best place to buy them?
>
> Thank you

Wait a little while longer and you should be a able to get a killer
deal on all of the leftover Postal, Discovery, and Radio Shack wanna-
be jerseys.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 6:31 pm
From: kolldata

check to see if Campmor has short sleeves with 80 percent or ?
polyester and rest cotton for dye holding.maybe in dayglo colors. Then
maybe there's polyester specialdyed in dayglo.last year CM had a barn
fulla bright TdF yellow nylon short sleevers.

then see abt poly long sleeves for sun protection. buy a OR goretex
rain hat while there.

I used poly in Florida. 130 degree road temp noprob. The poly/cotton
dayglo's are warm in rain showers then cool off with the cotton
hypothermia when sweating.

these shirts need careful washing in a roller washer wioth dilute dish
soap liquid like Palmolive for longevity and no grease work. if your
working with dirt change shirts wash ahnds after.poly and grease are
inseperable.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 6:34 pm
From: kolldata

wrong. collector's jersey.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 6:36 pm
From: Jay Beattie

On May 22, 5:21 pm, Chess Gator <chessga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> What are the few best short sleeve cycling jerseys for road biking
> approximately 100 kms?
>
> I know there are several companies, such as Sugoi and Louis Garneau.
> Each company has so many jerseys, are there a couple that stand out as
> the best ones?
>
> And where in Canada or the US is the best place to buy them?

There is only one place to buy a jersey in the United States. Here:
http://www.oregoncyclewear.com/woolcyclingjerseys.html Get the Widmer
jersey. They make good beer. Support your local jersey and beer
makers.

But seriously, folks, you need to go try on some jerseys. Sugoi runs
large, Louis Garneau runs cheap at Performance. Go down to a shop and
try some on. Many would say that Asos is best because their clothing
is hand made by magical Swiss elves. -- Jay Beattie.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 6:44 pm
From: kolldata

On May 22, 8:31 pm, kolldata <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> check to see if Campmor has short sleeves with 80 percent or ?
> polyester and rest cotton for dye holding.maybe in dayglo colors. Then
> maybe there's polyester specialdyed in dayglo.last year CM had a barn
> fulla bright TdF yellow nylon short sleevers.
>
> then see abt poly long sleeves for sun protection. buy a OR goretex
> rain hat while there.
>
> I used poly in Florida. 130 degree road temp noprob. The poly/cotton
> dayglo's are warm in rain showers then cool off with the cotton
> hypothermia when sweating.
>
> these shirts need careful washing in a roller washer wioth dilute dish
> soap liquid like Palmolive for longevity and no grease work. if your
> working with dirt change shirts wash ahnds after.poly and grease are
> inseperable.

duh

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/SubCategory___40000000226_200368502

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 6:49 pm
From: "Mike Jacoubowsky"

========
"Trey" <treypelotas@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ac133996-19f3-4217-bfe4-f5b28eb94fac@l14g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
On May 21, 12:37 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>

You seem to have some ethical flexibility. You stand on high moral
ground by not cheating the IRS but are perfectly fine selling a bike
brand whose sole reputation was built on a the use of public monies to
finance a doping program to end all doping programs. Do you see your
hypocrisy? Wake up bro.
========

Hey "bro", I was selling carbon Trek bikes in greater numbers pre-Lance
than during his reign. We were often derisively referred to as "that
road bike shop" and for about 5 years running, from 1992-1997 or so,
sold more carbon Trek bikes out of just two stores than any other dealer
in the country. What Lance did was encourage *everybody* to sell road
bikes, including shops that really didn't have a clue about high-end
product, with a resultant dilution of market for those who had done very
well in the past.

I will also argue that Trek did not do a very good job of tying Lance
into marketing. Sure, you got big posters of Lance, lots of ads with
Lance in Bicycling Magazine or whatever, lots of pictures of Trek bikes
in Sports Illustrated. But they never personalized Lance. They never
used Lance to tell stories that "normal" people could relate to. They
never, for example, used Lance's kids in any ads for Trek kids bikes.
They never used Lance to sell hybrid bikes, even though he's been known
to play around with them.

None of this is news; I've spoken about it before, long before any of
this current stuff was hitting the fan.

But I will give Lance credit for one thing. If not for Lance and Trek's
interest in promoting their relationship with him, I likely would have
never traveled to France, my first time out of the country (don't think
stepping a toe over the border in Mexico counts), in 2000. 43 years old
and I'd never traveled, and Trek offered me the opportunity to ride the
E'Tap du Tour and see a few stages of the race. I became hooked, and
have been to see the TdF every year but one ever since. I love France, I
love travel in general, and I really love going someplace where I can
ride my bike and people don't think I'm in their way. So yes, I owe
Lance for that one.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

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rec.bicycles.racing - 25 new messages in 15 topics - digest

rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=en

rec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hincappie is lying cheating son of a bitch with a vengeful streak
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0636847c0964e574?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 8:10 am
From: Anton Berlin

On May 22, 5:42 am, Simply Fred <n...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> ilan wrote:
> > If I remember correctly, didn't Hincapie get his US pro championship
> > taken away for cheating? I seem to remember he motorpaced and was
> > relegated.
>
> Ah the good old days before Gruber.

This sport is so fucked. Wall Street could learn a lot from these
guys

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Giro d'Italia, stage 14 summary
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/fb72f45bc5f05c72?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 9:13 am
From: "Steve Freides"

Bob, thank you for posting these time and time again. Your dilgence is
much appreciated.

-S-

Bob Martin wrote:
> Stage 14 : May 21, Lienz - Monte Zoncolan, 210 km
>
> 1 Igor Anton Hernandez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi
> 5.04.26 2 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Saxo Bank Sungard
> 0.33 3 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale
> 0.40 4 Michele Scarponi (Ita) Lampre - ISD
> 1.11 5 Denis Menchov (Rus) Geox-TMC
> 1.21 6 John Gadret (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale
> 1.38 7 Mikel Nieve Ituralde (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi
> 1.52 8 Hubert Dupont (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale
> 1.55 9 Kanstantsin Sivtsov (Blr) HTC-Highroad
> 2.05 10 Jose Rujano Guillen (Ven) Androni Giocattoli
> 2.11
>
>
> Changes in GC, stage 14 compared to stage 13 :
>
> Biggest gainers by position :
> +17 Rinaldo Nocentini
> +17 Maxim Belkov
> +16 Matteo Rabottini
> +13 Danilo Di Luca
> +11 Matteo Montaguti
> +11 Jerome Pineau
> +11 Gianluca Brambilla
> +10 Jorge Azanza Soto
> +10 Gorazd Stangelj
> +9 Marcel Wyss
>
> Biggest losers by position :
> -12 Pablo Lastras Garcia
> -12 Pieter Weening
> -11 Francesco Masciarelli
> -11 Kevin Seeldrayers
> -10 Stefano Garzelli
> -8 Fabio Taborre
> -7 Marco Marzano
> -7 Sergey Lagutin
> -6 David Arroyo Duran
> -6 Julien Berard
> -6 Luis Pasamontes Rodriguez
>
> Biggest gainers by time :
> +0:41 Igor Anton Hernandez
>
> Biggest losers by time :
> -26:33 Kevin Seeldrayers
> -22:02 Alexander Kristoff
> -21:28 Cameron Meyer
> -21:28 Kasper Klostergaard Larsen
> -21:28 Laurent Didier
> -21:28 Manuel Antonio Leal Cardoso
> -21:28 Matteo Tosatto
> -21:28 Michael Christiansen Morkov
> -21:28 Miguel Minguez Ayala
> -20:49 Alex Rasmussen
> -20:49 Frantisek Rabon
>
> Favourites by position :
> +13 Danilo Di Luca
> +8 Richie Porte
> +4 Denis Menchov
> +3 Lars Ytting Bak
> +2 Daniel Moreno Fernandez
> +1 Thomas Lovkvist
> +1 Carlos Sastre Candil
> -1 Michele Scarponi
> -4 Roman Kreuziger
> -6 David Arroyo Duran
> -10 Stefano Garzelli
>
> Favourites by time :
> -0:11 Vincenzo Nibali
> -0:50 Michele Scarponi
> -1:00 Denis Menchov
> -3:11 Roman Kreuziger
> -3:18 David Arroyo Duran
> -5:11 Daniel Moreno Fernandez
> -5:43 Thomas Lovkvist
> -7:05 Danilo Di Luca
> -8:53 Carlos Sastre Candil
> -15:52 Richie Porte
> -16:51 Stefano Garzelli
> -18:07 Lars Ytting Bak
> -20:49 Frantisek Rabon
>
> Top 10 and favourites GC standings (previous stage in parens) :
> 1 Alberto Contador Velasco 54:45:45
> (unchanged) 2 Vincenzo Nibali 3:20
> (was 2nd at 3:09) 3 Igor Anton Hernandez
> 3:21 (was 7th at 4:02) 4 Michele Scarponi
> 4:06 (was 3rd at 3:16) 5 John Gadret
> 5:23 (was 8th at 4:06) 6 Kanstantsin Siutsou
> 5:37 (was 6th at 3:53) 7 Denis Menchov
> 6:06 (was 11th at 5:06) 8 Hubert Dupont
> 6:12 (was 10th at 4:38) 9 Roman Kreuziger
> 6:40 (was 5th at 3:29) 10 David Arroyo Duran
> 6:43 (was 4th at 3:25) .....
> 21 Thomas Lovkvist 13:24 (was
> 22nd at 7:41) .....
> 27 Carlos Sastre Candil 21:41 (was
> 28th at 12:48) 28 Daniel Moreno Fernandez
> 22:57 (was 30th at 17:46) 29 Stefano Garzelli
> 23:31 (was 19th at 6:40) .....
> 68 Danilo Di Luca 1:04:33 (was
> 81st at 57:28) .....
> 105 Richie Porte 1:33:38 (was
> 113rd at 1:17:46) .....
> 139 Lars Ytting Bak 1:54:31 (was
> 142nd at 1:36:24) .....
> 163 Frantisek Rabon 2:16:14 (was
> 163rd at 1:55:25)
>
> Top 10 on Points table with previous in parens:
> 1 Jan Bakelants 12
> (unchanged) 2 Pablo Lastras Garcia 10
> (unchanged) 3 Daniel Moreno Fernandez 5
> (unchanged) 4 Matteo Montaguti 5
> (unchanged) 5 Fumiyuki Beppu 5
> (unchanged) 6 Sebastian Lang 5
> (unchanged) 7 Kristof Vandewalle 5
> (unchanged) 8 Mirko Selvaggi 5
> (unchanged) 9 Matteo Tosatto 5
> (unchanged) 10 Matteo Rabottini 5
> (was 0 points)
>
> Top 10 on Mountains table with previous in parens:
> 1 Alberto Contador Velasco 33 (was
> 1st with 24 points) 2 Gianluca Brambilla
> 27 (was 12th with 8 points) 3 Jose Rujano Guillen
> 24 (was 2nd with 24 points) 4 Branislau Samoilau
> 19 (was 3rd with 19 points) 5 Filippo Savini
> 18 (was 4th with 16 points) 6 Igor Anton Hernandez
> 15 (was 0 points) 7 Michele Scarponi
> 15 (was 6th with 12 points) 8 Robert Kiserlovski
> 14 (was 5th with 12 points) 9 Bart De Clercq
> 11 (was 7th with 11 points) 10 Vincenzo Nibali
> 11 (was 17th with 6 points)
>
> Retirements to date : Stage
> Andrea Noe' (Ita) Farnese Vini - Neri Sottoli 14 <<<
> Francesco Chicchi (Ita) Quickstep Cycling Team 14 <<<
> Rafael Valls Ferri (Spa) Geox-TMC 14 <<<
> Alessandro Petacchi (Ita) Lampre - ISD 13
> Danilo Hondo (Ger) Lampre - ISD 13
> Davide Appollonio (Ukn) Sky Procycling 13
> Francisco Jose Ventoso Alberdi (Spa) Movistar Team 13
> Gerald Ciolek (Ger) Quickstep Cycling Team 13
> Manuel Belletti (Ita) Colnago - CSF Inox 13
> Mark Cavendish (GBr) HTC-Highroad 13
> Mark Renshaw (Aus) HTC-Highroad 13
> Martin Kohler (Swi) BMC Racing Team 13
> Sacha Modolo (Ukn) Colnago - CSF Inox 13
> Borut Bozic (Slo) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team 11
> Danilo Napolitano (Ita) Acqua & Sapone 11
> Adam Blyth (GBr) Omega Pharma-Lotto 10
> Chris Butler (USA) BMC Racing Team 9
> Graeme Brown (Aus) Rabobank Cycling Team 9
> Jackson Rodriguez (Ven) Androni Giocattoli 9
> Robbie McEwen (Aus) Team RadioShack 9
> Fabio Andres Duarte Arevalo (Col) Geox-TMC 8
> Brice Feillu (Fra) Leopard Trek 5
> Bruno Pires (Por) Leopard Trek 5
> Chris Barton (USA) BMC Racing Team 5
> Davide ViganA (Ita) Leopard Trek 5
> Dominic Klemme (Ger) Leopard Trek 5
> Fabian Wegmann (Ger) Leopard Trek 5
> Francesco Failli (Ita) Farnese Vini - Neri Sottoli 5
> Oliver Zaugg (Swi) Leopard Trek 5
> Thomas Rohregger (Aut) Leopard Trek 5
> Tom Slagter (Ned) Rabobank Cycling Team 5
> Tom Stamsnijder (Ned) Leopard Trek 5
> Tyler Farrar (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo 5
> Wouter Weylandt (Bel) Leopard Trek 3
> Total retirements : 34
>
>
> (This report can also be seen at
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rvmartin2)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hincapie, Hamilton ,Armstrong doping claims
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/3b88a605cd334e6d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 9:36 am
From: Randall

The prosecutors are not going to find any records of money being sent
if Bruyneel had any brains. $15 million is a lot of money for drugs.
The money was probably exchanged in person if such a transaction
occurred at all. The bike sales were most likely to raise extra money
for the team. Pro teams require a huge amount of money and any extra
helps.

On May 22, 2:57 am, Mike <mtschatz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Doping will never be proven, but what about the money trail? What if
> 15 million really did get sent to
> Dr. Ferrari? Why would Tailwind Sports - hypothetically - do that? Why
> would Bruyneel sell 140 Treks a year and then send all that money to a
> weird infamous Italian "doctor" when they had "Coach" Carmichael and
> "Dr." Testa?
>
> Again, think about the financial aspects of this story: Bruyneel
> honestly believed he would start Bruyneel America, and Mesa Del
> Bruyneel - an entire utopian city (population 100,000) outside of
> Albuquerque New Mexico, where he would be the mayor, with a Bruyneel
> cycling college, funded by the state of New Mexico (one of the poorest
> states in the USA).
>
> I'm not making any of this stuff up. These people - puppets of Thomas
> Weisel really: Bruyneel, Armstrong, Ochowicz/Phonak/BMC, Gorski,
> Osipow, Petty, Johnson (CEO of USA cycling), etc. - were/ARE out of
> their minds. Most of this went down before the economy exploded. The
> amount of money created by the Weisel project, started in 1992, is
> absolutely staggering. Subaru/Montgomery/Motorola/USPS/Discovery/
> Astana/Phonak/BMC/Livestrong/Radio Shack -
> it's all the same people involved.
>
> There is an argument to be made that the USPS investment (roughly 40
> million) was well worth it...Americans don't care about this stuff,
> they want a hero, and Weisel and Bruyneel and Ferrari created one.
>
> VELOPORK.COM

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 10:25 am
From: Fred Flintstein

On 5/22/2011 4:57 AM, Mike wrote:
> Doping will never be proven, but what about the money trail? What if
> 15 million really did get sent to
> Dr. Ferrari? Why would Tailwind Sports - hypothetically - do that? Why
> would Bruyneel sell 140 Treks a year and then send all that money to a
> weird infamous Italian "doctor" when they had "Coach" Carmichael and
> "Dr." Testa?

Dumbass,

Seriously, you're a dumbass. Paying money to Dr Ferrari for
a doping program is not an illegal act. Again I say it, I
know of someone that makes a comfortable living in the US
doing that. The feds took two cracks at him, they struck out
twice. Now they leave him the hell alone.

If there is a money trail it doesn't fucking matter.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 1:29 pm
From: Anton Berlin

On May 22, 1:34 am, Mike <mtschatz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 21, 11:29 pm, Randall <randall.shim...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Allegations by Hincapie that he witnessed Lance dope might be enough
> > to indict. But convicting Armstrong in a trial is altogether a
> > different matter. I am uncertain that witnessing someone dope is
> > enough to convict him in a court of law. The blood samples could be
> > challenged on chain of evidence basis.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Nobody cares if Lance doped or not - the FDA is not investigating IF
> Lance doped or not,
> they already know that he did (like the rest of us in 1996 when he
> showed up for the classics
> looking like an NFL linebacker), this is about financial fraud
> involving hundreds of millions
> of dollars.
>
> Armstrong created a financial empire along with Thomas Weisel,
> Mellow Johnny is a bike shop, an aviation company with a Gulfstream
> Jet, using
> a "charity" that used cancer to raise money for a small group of
> insiders that revolved around Thomas Weisel.
>
> This is a financial investigation involving Tailwind Sports Thomas
> Weisel and the USPS,
> who used taxpayers money to fund a doing program.
>
> Lance is one pawn in the game, Tyler Hamilton, Landis and Hincapie are
> other pawns,
> but the major players are Capital Sports and Entertainment (CSE) who
> took over for
> Tailwind after it got scary for the major players involved.
>
> Stapleton Skaggs (SP?) whoever else is involved
> will end up snitching in the end - because you don't lie to a grand
> jury.
>
> Hamilton and Hincapie are just admitting what they've already been
> forced to admit under oath.
> Novitsky isn't going to prove Lance doped, that is impossible at this
> point, he is going to show
> wire transfers, money laundering between Tailwind and the people who
> supplied the dope (Amgen maybe,
> but probably Ferrari and the like).
>
> Hamilton just wants attention and to "come clean" before the boot
> drops. Hincapie just doesn't want to go to jail,
> but the guy did have the audacity to win a freaking mountain stage in
> the TdF. I mean really, the guy is 6'3" 185.
> That is just Tom Zirbel-esque, just ridiculous.
>
> I like all the yellow wristband crowd finally facing reality, but it
> really is like telling little children there is
> no Santa Claus, kinda depressing.
>
> I like Ochowicz, who has worked as a trader for Weisel for over 25
> years, pretending he has no idea what is
> going on, he should just man up and jump off the sinking ship while he
> still has the chance. BMC won't exist next year
> anyway.
>
> I love Horner and Leipheimer, both pushing 50 years old, winning Mt.
> Baldy today! That is just Bruyneel rubbing this shit in your face!
> booya! Cycling is no cleaner today that it was then. And the Amgen
> Tour of California, I know a million people have pointed this out -
> but really, how classic is that? Amgen really caters to their
> demographic.
> Mike Schatzman
> VELOPORK.COM

I agree with this POV 100% It's not about the dope - it's about all
of the crimes done to get and use the dope.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 1:30 pm
From: Anton Berlin

On May 22, 4:57 am, Mike <mtschatz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Doping will never be proven, but what about the money trail? What if
> 15 million really did get sent to
> Dr. Ferrari? Why would Tailwind Sports - hypothetically - do that? Why
> would Bruyneel sell 140 Treks a year and then send all that money to a
> weird infamous Italian "doctor" when they had "Coach" Carmichael and
> "Dr." Testa?
>
> Again, think about the financial aspects of this story: Bruyneel
> honestly believed he would start Bruyneel America, and Mesa Del
> Bruyneel - an entire utopian city (population 100,000) outside of
> Albuquerque New Mexico, where he would be the mayor, with a Bruyneel
> cycling college, funded by the state of New Mexico (one of the poorest
> states in the USA).
>
> I'm not making any of this stuff up. These people - puppets of Thomas
> Weisel really: Bruyneel, Armstrong, Ochowicz/Phonak/BMC, Gorski,
> Osipow, Petty, Johnson (CEO of USA cycling), etc. - were/ARE out of
> their minds. Most of this went down before the economy exploded. The
> amount of money created by the Weisel project, started in 1992, is
> absolutely staggering. Subaru/Montgomery/Motorola/USPS/Discovery/
> Astana/Phonak/BMC/Livestrong/Radio Shack -
> it's all the same people involved.
>
> There is an argument to be made that the USPS investment (roughly 40
> million) was well worth it...Americans don't care about this stuff,
> they want a hero, and Weisel and Bruyneel and Ferrari created one.
>
> VELOPORK.COM

There's a money trail. It's tough to move that much cash one way or
another. Novitsky is one of the best at following money trails.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 1:31 pm
From: Anton Berlin

On May 22, 12:25 pm, Fred Flintstein
<bob.schwa...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote:
> On 5/22/2011 4:57 AM, Mike wrote:
>
> > Doping will never be proven, but what about the money trail? What if
> > 15 million really did get sent to
> > Dr. Ferrari? Why would Tailwind Sports - hypothetically - do that? Why
> > would Bruyneel sell 140 Treks a year and then send all that money to a
> > weird infamous Italian "doctor" when they had "Coach" Carmichael and
> > "Dr." Testa?
>
> Dumbass,
>
> Seriously, you're a dumbass. Paying money to Dr Ferrari for
> a doping program is not an illegal act. Again I say it, I
> know of someone that makes a comfortable living in the US
> doing that. The feds took two cracks at him, they struck out
> twice. Now they leave him the hell alone.
>
> If there is a money trail it doesn't fucking matter.
>
> F

Want to bet you're totally fucking wrong ?

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 1:38 pm
From: Trey

Testa? I've never heard his name brought up before this wrt doping.
Any links on this? BTW I agree with most everything else you posted.
Thanks for posting.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 11:17 am
From: Brad Anders

On May 22, 8:05 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Really? You're more gullible than I thought. "Clean"? It's an
> > illusion, you have no idea at all if these guys are "clean", and
> > there's every indication that they're not. Your "evidence" of no
> > allegations/implications is simply silly - anyone who was in top 20 on
> > GC in a GT for the past couple of decades is suspect, and more than
> > likely a doper. Just what it takes to be in that group.
>
> I agree - just making the point.

OK, but then don't add the disclaimer "as far as we know".

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 1:26 pm
From: Anton Berlin

> OK, but then don't add the disclaimer "as far as we know".

???? It means one SHOULD add the disclaimer

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Matt Busche
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/36b4278f8739465e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 11:38 am
From: Brad Anders

That was a hell of a climb. He finished only 2:56 down, too.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 12:12 pm
From: RicodJour

On May 22, 11:03 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 21, 9:55 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yo, Anton...
>
> > Still feel like raggin' on Horner?
>
> I haven't been watching the bike ride in California. There's a race
> in Italy going on.

I thought foregone conclusions didn't qualify to be included in the
'race' category.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Giro d'Italia, stage 15 summary
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/466df971fb2c5567?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 12:19 pm
From: Bob Martin

Stage 15 : May 22, Conegliano - Gardeccia-Val di Fassa, 229 km

1 Mikel Nieve Ituralde (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 7.27.14
2 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Acqua & Sapone 1.41
3 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Saxo Bank Sungard 1.51
4 Michele Scarponi (Ita) Lampre - ISD 1.57
5 John Gadret (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 2.28
6 Jose Rujano Guillen (Ven) Androni Giocattoli 2.35
7 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale 3.34
8 Joaquim Rodriguez Oliver (Spa) Katusha Team
9 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Pro Team Astana 4.01
10 Steven Kruijswijk (Ned) Rabobank Cycling Team 4.13

Changes in GC, stage 15 compared to stage 14 :

Biggest gainers by position :
+28 Patrick Gretsch
+27 Dmitry Kozontchouk
+19 Leonardo Giordani
+18 Philip Deignan
+17 Yaroslav Popovych
+17 Bjorn Selander
+16 Simone Stortoni
+16 Johnny Hoogerland
+16 Francisco Javier Aramendia Llorente
+16 Cyril Dessel

Biggest losers by position :
-19 Dario David Cioni
-17 Mathias Frank
-14 Volodymir Gustov
-11 Jose Rodolfo Serpa Perez
-11 Mauricio Alberto Ardila Cano
-10 Francesco Masciarelli
-10 Jerome Pineau
-10 Michael Barry
-9 Alexsandr Dyachenko
-9 Fabio Sabatini
-9 Matteo Carrara

Biggest gainers by time :
+2:05 Mikel Nieve Ituralde
+0:20 Stefano Garzelli

Biggest losers by time :
-43:12 Matthew Wilson
-42:40 Michael Christiansen Morkov
-42:03 Mathias Frank
-41:26 Alexander Kristoff
-41:21 Dennis van Winden
-40:57 Alex Rasmussen
-40:57 Jussi Veikkanen
-40:57 Kasper Klostergaard Larsen
-40:57 Simon Spilak
-40:44 Gianluca Brambilla
-40:22 Rick Flens

Favourites by position :
+15 Lars Ytting Bak
+12 Stefano Garzelli
+8 Danilo Di Luca
+2 Michele Scarponi
+1 Thomas Lovkvist
+1 Roman Kreuziger
-1 Vincenzo Nibali
-3 Carlos Sastre Candil
-7 Daniel Moreno Fernandez
-9 Richie Porte

Favourites by time :
+0:20 Stefano Garzelli
-0:14 Michele Scarponi
-1:51 Vincenzo Nibali
-2:18 Roman Kreuziger
-2:40 Denis Menchov
-2:47 David Arroyo Duran
-14:04 Thomas Lovkvist
-15:13 Danilo Di Luca
-19:19 Carlos Sastre Candil
-22:21 Daniel Moreno Fernandez
-25:34 Lars Ytting Bak
-38:16 Richie Porte

Top 10 and favourites GC standings (previous stage in parens) :
1 Alberto Contador Velasco 62:14:42 (unchanged)
2 Michele Scarponi 4:20 (was 4th at 4:06)
3 Vincenzo Nibali 5:11 (was 2nd at 3:20)
4 John Gadret 6:08 (was 5th at 5:23)
5 Mikel Nieve Ituralde 7:03 (was 17th at 9:08)
6 Jose Rujano Guillen 8:39 (was 12th at 7:47)
7 Denis Menchov 8:46 (was 7th at 6:06)
8 Roman Kreuziger 8:58 (was 9th at 6:40)
9 JoaquAm RodrAguez Oliver 9:20 (was 11th at 7:29)
10 David Arroyo Duran 9:30 (was 10th at 6:43)
.....
17 Stefano Garzelli 23:11 (was 29th at 23:31)
.....
20 Thomas Lovkvist 27:28 (was 21st at 13:24)
.....
30 Carlos Sastre Candil 41:00 (was 27th at 21:41)
.....
35 Daniel Moreno Fernandez 45:18 (was 28th at 22:57)
.....
60 Danilo Di Luca 1:19:46 (was 68th at 1:04:33)
.....
114 Richie Porte 2:11:54 (was 105th at 1:33:38)
.....
124 Lars Ytting Bak 2:20:05 (was 139th at 1:54:31)

Top 10 on Points table with previous in parens:
1 Jan Bakelants 16 (was 1st with 12 points)
2 Pablo Lastras Garcia 10 (unchanged)
3 Stefano Garzelli 5 (was 0 points)
4 Daniel Moreno Fernandez 5 (was 3rd with 5 points)
5 Matteo Montaguti 5 (was 4th with 5 points)
6 Sebastian Lang 5 (unchanged)
7 Fumiyuki Beppu 5 (was 5th with 5 points)
8 Kristof Vandewalle 5 (was 7th with 5 points)
9 Mirko Selvaggi 5 (was 8th with 5 points)
10 Matteo Tosatto 5 (was 9th with 5 points)

Top 10 on Mountains table with previous in parens:
1 Stefano Garzelli 62 (was 16th with 8 points)
2 Mikel Nieve Ituralde 39 (was 0 points)
3 Alberto Contador Velasco 38 (was 1st with 33 points)
4 Gianluca Brambilla 27 (was 2nd with 27 points)
5 Jose Rujano Guillen 26 (was 3rd with 24 points)
6 Emanuele Sella 23 (was 0 points)
7 Johnny Hoogerland 21 (was 0 points)
8 Branislau Samoilau 19 (was 4th with 19 points)
9 Filippo Savini 18 (was 5th with 18 points)
10 Michele Scarponi 18 (was 7th with 15 points)

Retirements to date : Stage
Brett Lancaster (Aus) Team Garmin-Cervelo 15 <<<
Domenico Pozzovivo (Ita) Colnago - CSF Inox 15 <<<
Frantisek Rabon (Cze) HTC-Highroad 15 <<<
Juan Jose Oroz Ugalde (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 15 <<<
Manuel Antonio Leal Cardoso (Por) Team RadioShack 15 <<<
Marco Marzano (Ita) Lampre - ISD 15 <<<
Robert Hunter (RSA) Team RadioShack 15 <<<
Andrea Noe' (Ita) Farnese Vini - Neri Sottoli 14
Francesco Chicchi (Ita) Quickstep Cycling Team 14
Rafael Valls Ferri (Spa) Geox-TMC 14
Alessandro Petacchi (Ita) Lampre - ISD 13
Danilo Hondo (Ger) Lampre - ISD 13
Davide Appollonio (Ukn) Sky Procycling 13
Francisco Jose Ventoso Alberdi (Spa) Movistar Team 13
Gerald Ciolek (Ger) Quickstep Cycling Team 13
Manuel Belletti (Ita) Colnago - CSF Inox 13
Mark Cavendish (GBr) HTC-Highroad 13
Mark Renshaw (Aus) HTC-Highroad 13
Martin Kohler (Swi) BMC Racing Team 13
Sacha Modolo (Ukn) Colnago - CSF Inox 13
Borut Bozic (Slo) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team 11
Danilo Napolitano (Ita) Acqua & Sapone 11
Adam Blyth (GBr) Omega Pharma-Lotto 10
Chris Butler (USA) BMC Racing Team 9
Graeme Brown (Aus) Rabobank Cycling Team 9
Jackson Rodriguez (Ven) Androni Giocattoli 9
Robbie McEwen (Aus) Team RadioShack 9
Fabio Andres Duarte Arevalo (Col) Geox-TMC 8
Brice Feillu (Fra) Leopard Trek 5
Bruno Pires (Por) Leopard Trek 5
Chris Barton (USA) BMC Racing Team 5
Davide ViganA² (Ita) Leopard Trek 5
Dominic Klemme (Ger) Leopard Trek 5
Fabian Wegmann (Ger) Leopard Trek 5
Francesco Failli (Ita) Farnese Vini - Neri Sottoli 5
Oliver Zaugg (Swi) Leopard Trek 5
Thomas Rohregger (Aut) Leopard Trek 5
Tom Slagter (Ned) Rabobank Cycling Team 5
Tom Stamsnijder (Ned) Leopard Trek 5
Tyler Farrar (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo 5
Wouter Weylandt (Bel) Leopard Trek 3
Total retirements : 41

(This report can also be seen at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rvmartin2)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nibali had this to say:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/0e9d81fef3cad0b0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 1:30 pm
From: Frederick the Great

Vincenzo Nibali accuses Alberto Contador of not showing him any respect.
There was no need for Contador to attack in the final 500 metres,
the Liquigas rider said.

Yes there is, bitch.

--
Old Fritz

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 1:31 pm
From: Trey

On May 21, 10:11 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> <truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:5a69a904-c743-46c6-8aae-2dceddd30016@32g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
> On May 21, 3:45 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > <truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:1b7bde0a-94b1-4cf0-8eb0-a4e9edb3a145@bl1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > >http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/lance-armstrong-the-end...
>
> > "And together we all allowed one man to dominate the sport, to its
> > detriment."
>
> > What detriment? The sport grew tremendously while Lance was winning
> > his 7
> > TdFs. The detriment of scandal? Something in any way unusual for
> > bicycle
> > racing from an historical context? The detriment of having an American
> > beating the Euros at their own game? The detriment, if true, of
> > learning
> > from the Festina scandal and finding a better way to cheat?
>
> > What was it "we" allowed? What were "we" supposed to do? If Lance
> > doped, he
> > didn't win 7 TdFs because he doped. He won because he had a system in
> > place
> > that other teams lacked. Other teams that most certainly were doping
> > at the
> > time (as proven by those who were caught). To the extent we gave him
> > sainthood, sure, guilty on that one. But it's absurd to suggest that
> > cycling
> > suffered greatly due to Lance, or that any one thing Lance did caused
> > that
> > to happen.
>
> > --Mike Jacoubowsky
> > Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> > Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
> >>Thanks for sharing your utterly vapid, amoral position on what
> >>Armstrong and Co. did, Mike. How many Treks and how much profit did
> >>you make off Trek/Lance product during the lying years?
>
> Nothing gets past you, does it? Other than addressing the conversation
> at hand that is. That's twice today. Why is it more important on rbr to
> score insults than intelligence?
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Why won't you accept that you are a doping profiteer? None of the
Lance apologists ever asked any questions while he was winning and
growing the sport. You benefitted tremendously if you sold Treks
during that era - which it appears you did. What you need to realize
is that he grew the sport ONLY because he cheated his ass off - better
than anyone else in his era. But those gains were all artificial. Just
like the housing bubble. All the assholes selling and taking out
adjustable mortgages just wanted to ride the train and didn't want to
ask any questions when property values were rising. You are one of
those assholes. Face it and repent.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 2:42 pm
From: Phil H

On May 22, 1:31 pm, Trey <treypelo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 21, 10:11 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > <truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:5a69a904-c743-46c6-8aae-2dceddd30016@32g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
> > On May 21, 3:45 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > <truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:1b7bde0a-94b1-4cf0-8eb0-a4e9edb3a145@bl1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > >http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/lance-armstrong-the-end...
>
> > > "And together we all allowed one man to dominate the sport, to its
> > > detriment."
>
> > > What detriment? The sport grew tremendously while Lance was winning
> > > his 7
> > > TdFs. The detriment of scandal? Something in any way unusual for
> > > bicycle
> > > racing from an historical context? The detriment of having an American
> > > beating the Euros at their own game? The detriment, if true, of
> > > learning
> > > from the Festina scandal and finding a better way to cheat?
>
> > > What was it "we" allowed? What were "we" supposed to do? If Lance
> > > doped, he
> > > didn't win 7 TdFs because he doped. He won because he had a system in
> > > place
> > > that other teams lacked. Other teams that most certainly were doping
> > > at the
> > > time (as proven by those who were caught). To the extent we gave him
> > > sainthood, sure, guilty on that one. But it's absurd to suggest that
> > > cycling
> > > suffered greatly due to Lance, or that any one thing Lance did caused
> > > that
> > > to happen.
>
> > > --Mike Jacoubowsky
> > > Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> > > Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
> > >>Thanks for sharing your utterly vapid, amoral position on what
> > >>Armstrong and Co. did, Mike. How many Treks and how much profit did
> > >>you make off Trek/Lance product during the lying years?
>
> > Nothing gets past you, does it? Other than addressing the conversation
> > at hand that is. That's twice today. Why is it more important on rbr to
> > score insults than intelligence?
>
> > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Why won't you accept that you are a doping profiteer? None of the
> Lance apologists ever asked any questions while he was winning and
> growing the sport. You benefitted tremendously if you sold Treks
> during that era - which it appears you did. What you need to realize
> is that he grew the sport ONLY because he cheated his ass off - better
> than anyone else in his era. But those gains were all artificial. Just
> like the housing bubble. All the assholes selling and taking out
> adjustable mortgages just wanted to ride the train and didn't want to
> ask any questions when property values were rising. You are one of
> those assholes. Face it and repent.

That's a crock. At the time Mike sold those bikes, Lance and doping
were nothing more than speculative rumors. Anyone who wants to
retroactively grill his ass is an idiot or an ex lawyer or both.
Talking about ex lawyers, isn't it a bit hypocritical to accuse
someone of profitting from the misdeeds of others. Isn't that the
definition of a lawyer? Maybe you can explain the "winning" mentality
of the profession rather than the "truth seeking". Save your
delusional moral judgement for those comparatively more deserving,
child molesters, murderers and rapists.
Phil H

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 1:43 pm
From: Trey

On May 21, 12:37 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> ========<truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d3027a03-1f63-4b8f-bf8b-069be9932368@j23g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> "I don't hold any grudges," Mercier said about his time in
> professional cycling. "I look at what those guys did, and I don't
> imagine they feel good or proud about it. But they took things away
> from guys like myself, and Darren Baker. I suppose we weren't
> 'professional' enough. We weren't into winning at all costs. And the
> cost to me was my integrity, I wasn't going to give that up."-Scott
> Mercierhttp://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/scott-mercier-former-post...
> ========
>
> Life isn't fair. No matter what field you're in, there will be people
> cheating to get ahead. There are businesses around me that save boatloads of
> $$$ by paying their employees under the table. My lifestyle would be
> enhanced were I to do the same, but my ethics won't allow me to cheat like
> that. Oh, but it's only the IRS, you'd never get caught, everybody does it.
> Yeah right. I know exactly where Mercier is coming from.
>
> But I like who I am, and I wouldn't want to become someone else, even if it
> meant I'd be more "successful" by traditional definitions.
>
> We all make choices that reflect upon our values & goals. The tough part,
> for many, is living with the ethical standards they're ocmfortable with,
> without looking at things in life with a scorecard. I get frustrated at
> times, being sometimes less competitive on product because I have
> significantly-higher expenses than someone else, but it hasn't driven me to
> want to cheat, and when I examine changes to my business to become more
> competitive, I always have to look at whether those changes might require
> moving long-time ethical boundaries. At some point, the decision could come
> that it's just no longer practical to remain in business, just as others
> decided they can't remain in cycling at a competitive level. Many would
> suggest that the better choice of action, after having invested all these
> years in the business (or cycling), would be to do what you have to to level
> the playing field. Cheat. But the more-important investment over all those
> years is in your ethics.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 1:46 pm
From: Trey

On May 21, 5:10 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> <truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f857e801-f18e-404c-a3f7-24d277b10883@k17g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
> On May 21, 3:37 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > ========<truthita...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:d3027a03-1f63-4b8f-bf8b-069be9932368@j23g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> > "I don't hold any grudges," Mercier said about his time in
> > professional cycling. "I look at what those guys did, and I don't
> > imagine they feel good or proud about it. But they took things away
> > from guys like myself, and Darren Baker. I suppose we weren't
> > 'professional' enough. We weren't into winning at all costs. And the
> > cost to me was my integrity, I wasn't going to give that up."-Scott
> > Mercierhttp://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/scott-mercier-former-post...
> > ========
>
> > Life isn't fair. No matter what field you're in, there will be people
> > cheating to get ahead. There are businesses around me that save boatloads
> > of
> > $$$ by paying their employees under the table. My lifestyle would be
> > enhanced were I to do the same, but my ethics won't allow me to cheat like
> > that. Oh, but it's only the IRS, you'd never get caught, everybody does
> > it.
> > Yeah right. I know exactly where Mercier is coming from.
>
> > But I like who I am, and I wouldn't want to become someone else, even if
> > it
> > meant I'd be more "successful" by traditional definitions.
>
> > We all make choices that reflect upon our values & goals. The tough part,
> > for many, is living with the ethical standards they're ocmfortable with,
> > without looking at things in life with a scorecard. I get frustrated at
> > times, being sometimes less competitive on product because I have
> > significantly-higher expenses than someone else, but it hasn't driven me
> > to
> > want to cheat, and when I examine changes to my business to become more
> > competitive, I always have to look at whether those changes might require
> > moving long-time ethical boundaries. At some point, the decision could
> > come
> > that it's just no longer practical to remain in business, just as others
> > decided they can't remain in cycling at a competitive level. Many would
> > suggest that the better choice of action, after having invested all these
> > years in the business (or cycling), would be to do what you have to to
> > level
> > the playing field. Cheat. But the more-important investment over all those
> > years is in your ethics.
>
> > --Mike Jacoubowsky
> > Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> > Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
> > Thanks for sharing, MIke. How are the Trek sales going?
>
> Very well, thank you. If you had concerns that anything current regarding
> Lance would affect them, I think it's a good three years too late for that
> to be an issue. Actually more likely 6 or 7. The "Lance effect" on sales was
> strongest during his first three TdF runs. After that it was generally
> accepted within the bike biz that Lance had as much effect boosting
> competitor's sales as Trek's. Or, to put it another way, Lance was very good
> for the cycling biz in a generic sense.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Denial is a river in Egypt bro.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 1:55 pm
From: Anton Berlin

A former teammate of perhaps the world's greatest cyclist, Lance
Armstrong, says he used banned performance-enhancing substances with
Armstrong to cheat in pro races, including the Tour de France, the
sport's ultimate event. For the first time, former Armstrong teammate
Tyler Hamilton reveals details to Scott Pelley never heard in public
before of how and when he and some of the former members of the U.S.
Postal Service team led by Armstrong used banned substances, including
EPO and testosterone, to gain an advantage in races that Armstrong
won. Michael Radutzky and Tanya Simon are the producers.

THIS IS A DOUBLE-LENGTH SEGMENT.

I hope they dig into his phoney cancer foundation next.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: So, let me get this straight...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/94c8ec80381880ae?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 2:01 pm
From: Phil H

On May 22, 8:01 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 22, 8:43 am, NoDannyNo <riggodee...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 21, 9:58 pm, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 21, 8:57 pm, NoDannyNo <riggodee...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > The fucker that actually failed a drug test gets off the hook and is
> > > > currently kicking ass in the Giro while the douche bag that never
> > > > failed once in 500+ times has investigators and media clowns crawling
> > > > up his anus. BAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! What a joke this sport
> > > > is...
>
> > > > (I know it's only May but I'm getting a head start on all the other
> > > > July-posting cocksuckers).
> > > > --
>
> > > Lance failed at least twice. This is an established fact.
>
> > The saddle sore cortisone cream? And what other one?
>
> A positive EPO result that Lance paid to have quelled. Backed up by
> several independent sources at this point and under oath. Let's
> also note that the documentation was made after the positive
> corticosteroid test which they were more than happy to accept.
>
> Here's the core of the problem - just as EBAY doesn't want to stop
> shill bidding as they benefit from higher prices so has the UCI
> benefited from the Armstrong 'story'.
>
> You can't have people that benefit 'self policing' themselves. Even
> if Lance were the best scientist doper ever - he was probably
> threshold detectable and positive many more times than we know
> about.
>
> Professional burglars break into hundreds of homes before every being
> caught once. If the police are also on the take and give the guy a
> pass they could break into countless homes and later claim
>
> "20+ year career. 500 burglaries worldwide, in and out of many
> windows. Never an arrest. I rest my case."

500 tests and only 2 "so called" positives. Those are very impressive
numbers when you look at false positive rates in scientiifc testing.
The probability of making a "type I" error is commonly between 1% and
5% so 0.4% is impressive :)
Phil H

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 4:03 pm
From: Scott

On May 21, 11:44 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> "Scott" <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:deb048f7-9e2c-42b4-80a8-1c617a42daf1@x10g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
> On May 21, 10:56 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Anton Berlin" <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:92a18abc-c129-4aa3-ac74-8fa4af88cc2a@c1g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> > On May 21, 8:57 pm, NoDannyNo <riggodee...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > The fucker that actually failed a drug test gets off the hook and is
> > > currently kicking ass in the Giro while the douche bag that never
> > > failed once in 500+ times has investigators and media clowns
> > > crawling
> > > up his anus. BAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! What a joke this sport
> > > is...
>
> > > (I know it's only May but I'm getting a head start on all the other
> > > July-posting cocksuckers).
> > > --
> > >>Lance failed at least twice. This is an established fact.
>
> > Note that "facts" are now determined by the number of times an
> > allegation has been repeated on rbr.
>
> > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
> >>It's not so much a factor of how many times an allegation has been
> >>repeated, but rather who is repeating it, that determines its
> >>veracity.
>
> If true, then why hasn't Novitsky placed a gag order on any number of
> rbr posters, to protect credibility of claims Lance doped?
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

That is an excellent question. Perhaps that Novitsky guy isn't as
smart as some folks give him credit.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Walsh and The Times Get Even
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/50a7e2c1ab685052?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 3:29 pm
From: "truthitalia@yahoo.com"

In Sunday's broad sheet Walsh gets a full page in the main section.
Headline "It's Not About the Bike, It's About the DRUGS" with the word
drugs in huge type between Gunderson's upraised victory arms in Paris
wearing yellow. Sweet after being sued by Gunderson for libel a few
years back.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 3:39 pm
From: "truthitalia@yahoo.com"

On May 22, 6:29 pm, "truthita...@yahoo.com" <truthita...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> In Sunday's broad sheet Walsh gets a full page in the main section.
> Headline "It's Not About the Bike, It's About the DRUGS" with the word
> drugs in huge type between Gunderson's upraised victory arms in Paris
> wearing yellow. Sweet after being sued by Gunderson for libel a few
> years back.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=13610&page=8

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 4:03 pm
From: Anton Berlin

She looks amazingly like every woman he's ever dated . Says he also
lied about stealing cookies when he was 4 and ironically referred to
him as a "son of a bitch"

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 4:26 pm
From: Anton Berlin

Hopefully the cunts in the UCI get in the ass next.

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