rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=enrec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Cycling must 'dare to change' - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/49c4e48db4f8d388?hl=en
* Fabiani--Dumb and Dumber - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f78932074670ef38?hl=en
* You Can Crash While Cycle Racing Without Road Rash - 11 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5560af32646c56e7?hl=en
* Ping: Anton - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/60cc25b0b70f3f92?hl=en
* CBS To Armstrong's Attorneys-- - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/6ae19c98e9f84a00?hl=en
* Doping and game theory - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/21cd5ff36be29132?hl=en
* They are now going on to bike paths to run us down. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7c1f9e12fadefe92?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cycling must 'dare to change'
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/49c4e48db4f8d388?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 9:34 am
From: Fred Flintstein
On 6/2/2011 8:28 AM, Anton Berlin wrote:
> On Jun 2, 8:01 am, Fred Flintstein<bob.schwa...@sbcremoveglobal.net>
> wrote:
>> On 6/2/2011 7:40 AM, Anton Berlin wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 2, 12:00 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky"<Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> "Zenon"<zenon_jask...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>> news:a55333ba-2265-4f39-97c5-e7b0dcd1b656@h12g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9490000/9490860.stm
>>
>>>> "The question now is whether one of the world's dirtiest sports can lead
>>>> the cleanup."
>>
>>>> Slow news day, eh?
>>
>>>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>>
>>> Can you point to a dirtier more corrupt sport ?
>>
>> Tennis. Soccer. NBA Basketball. Hockey.
>>
>> The whole fucking Olympics movement, top to bottom.
>>
>> Dumbass.
>>
>> F
>
> Bullshit - show the stats you fucking cunt.
>
> There are more positive tests in cycling and more org corruption (UCI)
> than perhaps all others combined. And in %s cycling wins hands
> down
>
> You really do have your head up your ass Schwartzstein McJewstein
That's why cycling should conduct their sport the way the other
sports I mentioned do. The positive tests would stop and we could
get back to the sport.
Ask google about Chris Herren, he's been in the news lately. What
you'll find is that in the NBA freakin' HORSE(!) is under the radar.
The difference with cycling is that basketball isn't run by morons.
F
PS And when you watch the next Winter Olympics in Russia, ask
yourself how this could happen in an organization that is less
corrupt than the UCI.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 10:34 am
From: Jim Feeley
Zenon <zenon_jaskula@hotmail.com> wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9490000/9490860.stm
Didn't they run the same story in 1960, 1967, 1984, 1988, 1998, 2006,
and other years?
Jim
--
Jim
Jim Feeley
POV Media
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 11:05 am
From: "FAT"
Bodybuilding.
"Anton Berlin" wrote in message
news:9893653e-0f4e-4eea-bbe0-38d652babbe6@r20g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 2, 12:00 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> "Zenon" <zenon_jask...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:a55333ba-2265-4f39-97c5-e7b0dcd1b656@h12g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>
> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9490000/9490860.stm
>
> "The question now is whether one of the world's dirtiest sports can lead
> the cleanup."
>
> Slow news day, eh?
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Can you point to a dirtier more corrupt sport ?
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 11:48 am
From: Scott
On Jun 2, 6:40 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 2, 12:00 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
>
> > "Zenon" <zenon_jask...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:a55333ba-2265-4f39-97c5-e7b0dcd1b656@h12g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>
> > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9490000/9490860.stm
>
> > "The question now is whether one of the world's dirtiest sports can lead
> > the cleanup."
>
> > Slow news day, eh?
>
> > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> Can you point to a dirtier more corrupt sport ?
Football ( NFL & FIFA ) MLB, track & field...
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fabiani--Dumb and Dumber
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/f78932074670ef38?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 10:55 am
From: ilan
On Jun 2, 5:37 pm, "Benjo Maso" <benjo.m...@upcmail.nl> wrote:
> "ilan" schreef in berichtnews:fb310258-8833-4180-ac38-725a0539dd12@k3g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Jun 2, 3:49 pm, "Benjo Maso" <benjo.m...@upcmail.nl> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "ilan" schreef in
> > berichtnews:c4889e91-f347-4827-8311-d999bc348a45@18g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Jun 2, 12:43 pm, BL <b...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > Now taking on Associated
> > > Press.http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CYC_DOPING_ARMSTRONG?SITE=AP&S...
>
> > This latest attack in fact gives the Armstrong camp their strongest
> > defense against these allegations:
>
> > "It was a unique situation and in those circumstances, it's not
> > appropriate for athletes or an athlete's entourage to be meeting with
> > lab operators," Howman said Wednesday. "Even if the meeting is as
> > innocent as the day is long, the perception it gives to other athletes
> > and members of the public is wrong, because the principle of anonymity
> > is what we rely on with labs."
>
> > This implies that knowledge by the laboratory that the suspicious
> > samples belonged to Armstrong immediately makes the samples void,
> > since the principle of anonymity has been violated.
>
> > I don't think so. If the first three of every stage and the man wearing
> > the
> > golden jersey have been tested, Armstrong is the only one to have been
> > tested five times. If five samples of the same rider were suspicious, it's
> > impossible not to know they belonged to Armstrong.
>
> > Benjo
>
> If the scientific protocol is respected, then the laboratory cannot
> know if samples from one day to the next are from the same rider.
> Therefore, your argument is invalid, if the protocol is respected. If
> the protocol is not respected, then the test is invalid.
>
> They must not know if the samples are from the same rider before the
> testing. But as soon they are tested the laboratory must at least be capable
> to compare them, if only to check if they samples are indeed from the same
> person.
>
> benjo
I do not see the reasoning behind your statement. On the contrary,
since all samples are anonymous, then the testing procedure does not
compare one sample to another. The laboratory has no need to know
whether samples from different days are from the same rider in order
to decide if a particular sample is positive. The identification of
the rider is done independently of the rider.
-ilan
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 2:40 pm
From: Phil H
On Jun 2, 6:49 am, "Benjo Maso" <benjo.m...@upcmail.nl> wrote:
> "ilan" schreef in berichtnews:c4889e91-f347-4827-8311-d999bc348a45@18g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Jun 2, 12:43 pm, BL <b...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > Now taking on Associated
> > Press.http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CYC_DOPING_ARMSTRONG?SITE=AP&S...
>
> This latest attack in fact gives the Armstrong camp their strongest
> defense against these allegations:
>
> "It was a unique situation and in those circumstances, it's not
> appropriate for athletes or an athlete's entourage to be meeting with
> lab operators," Howman said Wednesday. "Even if the meeting is as
> innocent as the day is long, the perception it gives to other athletes
> and members of the public is wrong, because the principle of anonymity
> is what we rely on with labs."
>
> This implies that knowledge by the laboratory that the suspicious
> samples belonged to Armstrong immediately makes the samples void,
> since the principle of anonymity has been violated.
>
> I don't think so. If the first three of every stage and the man wearing the
> golden jersey have been tested, Armstrong is the only one to have been
> tested five times. If five samples of the same rider were suspicious, it's
> impossible not to know they belonged to Armstrong.
>
> Benjo
At the time of testing the samples were anonymous. The fact that it
can be figured out "after" the result doesn't necessarily invalidate
that result. It depends on whether the method used could have
identified the sample before or during the test or in some way allowed
the result to be fudged. An example of this would be switching
identifiers with a failed or clean sample and its B sample. On the
other hand, any further testing of those samples is arguably severely
compromised.
Phil H
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 2:45 pm
From: BL
On 6/2/2011 5:40 PM, Phil H wrote:
> On Jun 2, 6:49 am, "Benjo Maso"<benjo.m...@upcmail.nl> wrote:
>> "ilan" schreef in berichtnews:c4889e91-f347-4827-8311-d999bc348a45@18g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> On Jun 2, 12:43 pm, BL<b...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Now taking on Associated
>>> Press.http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CYC_DOPING_ARMSTRONG?SITE=AP&S...
>>
>> This latest attack in fact gives the Armstrong camp their strongest
>> defense against these allegations:
>>
>> "It was a unique situation and in those circumstances, it's not
>> appropriate for athletes or an athlete's entourage to be meeting with
>> lab operators," Howman said Wednesday. "Even if the meeting is as
>> innocent as the day is long, the perception it gives to other athletes
>> and members of the public is wrong, because the principle of anonymity
>> is what we rely on with labs."
>>
>> This implies that knowledge by the laboratory that the suspicious
>> samples belonged to Armstrong immediately makes the samples void,
>> since the principle of anonymity has been violated.
>>
>> I don't think so. If the first three of every stage and the man wearing the
>> golden jersey have been tested, Armstrong is the only one to have been
>> tested five times. If five samples of the same rider were suspicious, it's
>> impossible not to know they belonged to Armstrong.
>>
>> Benjo
>
> At the time of testing the samples were anonymous. The fact that it
> can be figured out "after" the result doesn't necessarily invalidate
> that result. It depends on whether the method used could have
> identified the sample before or during the test or in some way allowed
> the result to be fudged. An example of this would be switching
> identifiers with a failed or clean sample and its B sample. On the
> other hand, any further testing of those samples is arguably severely
> compromised.
> Phil H
Quite right.
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 3:12 pm
From: ilan
On Jun 2, 11:40 pm, Phil H <pholma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 2, 6:49 am, "Benjo Maso" <benjo.m...@upcmail.nl> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "ilan" schreef in berichtnews:c4889e91-f347-4827-8311-d999bc348a45@18g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Jun 2, 12:43 pm, BL <b...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > Now taking on Associated
> > > Press.http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CYC_DOPING_ARMSTRONG?SITE=AP&S...
>
> > This latest attack in fact gives the Armstrong camp their strongest
> > defense against these allegations:
>
> > "It was a unique situation and in those circumstances, it's not
> > appropriate for athletes or an athlete's entourage to be meeting with
> > lab operators," Howman said Wednesday. "Even if the meeting is as
> > innocent as the day is long, the perception it gives to other athletes
> > and members of the public is wrong, because the principle of anonymity
> > is what we rely on with labs."
>
> > This implies that knowledge by the laboratory that the suspicious
> > samples belonged to Armstrong immediately makes the samples void,
> > since the principle of anonymity has been violated.
>
> > I don't think so. If the first three of every stage and the man wearing the
> > golden jersey have been tested, Armstrong is the only one to have been
> > tested five times. If five samples of the same rider were suspicious, it's
> > impossible not to know they belonged to Armstrong.
>
> > Benjo
>
> At the time of testing the samples were anonymous. The fact that it
> can be figured out "after" the result doesn't necessarily invalidate
> that result. It depends on whether the method used could have
> identified the sample before or during the test or in some way allowed
> the result to be fudged. An example of this would be switching
> identifiers with a failed or clean sample and its B sample. On the
> other hand, any further testing of those samples is arguably severely
> compromised.
> Phil H
First of all, it is unclear that the samples were anonymous, if this
Swiss lab did actually report that they belonged to Armstrong.
Secondly, none of these samples has any validity as proof of doping,
no matter what result is found, since the B sample wasn't tested.
-ilan
==============================================================================
TOPIC: You Can Crash While Cycle Racing Without Road Rash
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/5560af32646c56e7?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 11:42 am
From: Tºm Shermªn™ °_° <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net">
On 6/2/2011 9:19 AM, Brad Anders wrote:
>
> The military green torpedo is my fave.
Green #2 lapped the field 8 times (225 laps completed, with second place
doing 217 laps).
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 4:52 pm
From: James
Tºm Shermªn™ °_° > wrote:
> On 6/2/2011 9:19 AM, Brad Anders wrote:
>>
>> The military green torpedo is my fave.
>
> Green #2 lapped the field 8 times (225 laps completed, with second place
> doing 217 laps).
>
If only they learned to lean in to the corners.
--
JS.
== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 4:53 pm
From: James
James wrote:
> Tºm Shermªn™ °_° > wrote:
>> On 6/2/2011 9:19 AM, Brad Anders wrote:
>>>
>>> The military green torpedo is my fave.
>>
>> Green #2 lapped the field 8 times (225 laps completed, with second
>> place doing 217 laps).
>>
>
> If only they learned to lean in to the corners.
>
Like this.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6hOA2C_XMA
--
JS.
== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 5:03 pm
From: Dan O
On Jun 2, 4:53 pm, James <james.e.stew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> James wrote:
> > Tºm Shermªn™ °_° > wrote:
> >> On 6/2/2011 9:19 AM, Brad Anders wrote:
>
> >>> The military green torpedo is my fave.
>
> >> Green #2 lapped the field 8 times (225 laps completed, with second
> >> place doing 217 laps).
>
> > If only they learned to lean in to the corners.
>
> Like this..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6hOA2C_XMA
>
Dang! (download the plugin)
On another computer I saw the first one, though:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DIwn_davpik8%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded
... whjeee! 8-)
== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 5:06 pm
From: Tºm Shermªn™ °_° <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net">
On 6/2/2011 6:53 PM, James wrote:
> James wrote:
>> Tºm Shermªn™ °_° > wrote:
>>> On 6/2/2011 9:19 AM, Brad Anders wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The military green torpedo is my fave.
>>>
>>> Green #2 lapped the field 8 times (225 laps completed, with second
>>> place doing 217 laps).
>>>
>>
>> If only they learned to lean in to the corners.
>>
>
> Like this.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6hOA2C_XMA
>
Has been done, but not found to be worth the added weight and complexity.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 5:07 pm
From: Dan O
On Jun 2, 5:03 pm, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 2, 4:53 pm, James <james.e.stew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > James wrote:
> > > Tºm Shermªn™ °_° > wrote:
> > >> On 6/2/2011 9:19 AM, Brad Anders wrote:
>
> > >>> The military green torpedo is my fave.
>
> > >> Green #2 lapped the field 8 times (225 laps completed, with second
> > >> place doing 217 laps).
>
> > > If only they learned to lean in to the corners.
>
> > Like this..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6hOA2C_XMA
>
> Dang! (download the plugin)
>
> On another computer I saw the first one, though:
> http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D...
>
> ... whjeee! 8-)
... what I didn't like was needin' somebody to pick you up (besides
the ambulance crew)
== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 5:10 pm
From: Dan O
On Jun 2, 5:07 pm, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 2, 5:03 pm, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 2, 4:53 pm, James <james.e.stew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > James wrote:
> > > > Tºm Shermªn™ °_° > wrote:
> > > >> On 6/2/2011 9:19 AM, Brad Anders wrote:
>
> > > >>> The military green torpedo is my fave.
>
> > > >> Green #2 lapped the field 8 times (225 laps completed, with second
> > > >> place doing 217 laps).
>
> > > > If only they learned to lean in to the corners.
>
> > > Like this..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6hOA2C_XMA
>
> > Dang! (download the plugin)
>
> > On another computer I saw the first one, though:
> > http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D...
>
> > ... whjeee! 8-)
>
> ... what I didn't like was needin' somebody to pick you up (besides
> the ambulance crew)
I've been loaded up off the track at least a couple or few times
(those kind of injuries tend to make them hard to remember
exactly :-) Always got up off the street by myself, though so far
== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 5:13 pm
From: Tºm Shermªn™ °_° <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net">
On 6/2/2011 7:07 PM, Dan O wrote:
> On Jun 2, 5:03 pm, Dan O<danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 2, 4:53 pm, James<james.e.stew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> James wrote:
>>>> T�m Sherm�n� �_�> wrote:
>>>>> On 6/2/2011 9:19 AM, Brad Anders wrote:
>>
>>>>>> The military green torpedo is my fave.
>>
>>>>> Green #2 lapped the field 8 times (225 laps completed, with second
>>>>> place doing 217 laps).
>>
>>>> If only they learned to lean in to the corners.
>>
>>> Like this..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6hOA2C_XMA
>>
>> Dang! (download the plugin)
>>
Welcome to the world of Adobe Flash™.
>> On another computer I saw the first one, though:
>> http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D...
>>
>> ... whjeee! 8-)
>
> ... what I didn't like was needin' somebody to pick you up (besides
> the ambulance crew)
The velomobiles are light enough that they could likely be rocked back
upright or the rider could exit, but the fastest way to get back in the
race is to let the course workers do it. And of course, no road rash to
the riders.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 5:13 pm
From: Dan O
On Jun 2, 5:10 pm, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 2, 5:07 pm, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Always got up off the street by myself, though so far
... been inside a truck pitched over both wheels locked up on sandy
asphalt, though (bottom of a hill, too :-) -let go brakes and pulled
that fucker out! Other shit like that, too :-)
"Held my hand over a candle"
Can't wait to get up to high rock when the sun comes out up there
again
</baka>
== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 5:15 pm
From: Dan O
On Jun 2, 5:13 pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net"> wrote:
> On 6/2/2011 7:07 PM, Dan O wrote:
>
> > On Jun 2, 5:03 pm, Dan O<danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Jun 2, 4:53 pm, James<james.e.stew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> James wrote:
> >>>> T m Sherm n _ > wrote:
> >>>>> On 6/2/2011 9:19 AM, Brad Anders wrote:
>
> >>>>>> The military green torpedo is my fave.
>
> >>>>> Green #2 lapped the field 8 times (225 laps completed, with second
> >>>>> place doing 217 laps).
>
> >>>> If only they learned to lean in to the corners.
>
> >>> Like this..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6hOA2C_XMA
>
> >> Dang! (download the plugin)
>
> Welcome to the world of Adobe Flash™.
>
> >> On another computer I saw the first one, though:
> >> http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D...
>
> >> ... whjeee! 8-)
>
> > ... what I didn't like was needin' somebody to pick you up (besides
> > the ambulance crew)
>
> The velomobiles are light enough that they could likely be rocked back
> upright or the rider could exit, but the fastest way to get back in the
> race is to let the course workers do it. And of course, no road rash to
> the riders.
>
upper body probably 25 percent affected (so far :-) Deep ones are
serious
== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 5:18 pm
From: Dan O
On Jun 2, 5:15 pm, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 2, 5:13 pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
>
>
>
> $southslope.net"> wrote:
> > On 6/2/2011 7:07 PM, Dan O wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 2, 5:03 pm, Dan O<danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> On Jun 2, 4:53 pm, James<james.e.stew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >>> James wrote:
> > >>>> T m Sherm n _ > wrote:
> > >>>>> On 6/2/2011 9:19 AM, Brad Anders wrote:
>
> > >>>>>> The military green torpedo is my fave.
>
> > >>>>> Green #2 lapped the field 8 times (225 laps completed, with second
> > >>>>> place doing 217 laps).
>
> > >>>> If only they learned to lean in to the corners.
>
> > >>> Like this..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6hOA2C_XMA
>
> > >> Dang! (download the plugin)
>
> > Welcome to the world of Adobe Flash™.
>
> > >> On another computer I saw the first one, though:
> > >> http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D...
>
> > >> ... whjeee! 8-)
>
> > > ... what I didn't like was needin' somebody to pick you up (besides
> > > the ambulance crew)
>
> > The velomobiles are light enough that they could likely be rocked back
> > upright or the rider could exit, but the fastest way to get back in the
> > race is to let the course workers do it. And of course, no road rash to
> > the riders.
>
> upper body [not counting my head (way>10%), as helmets have used] probably 25 percent affected (so far :-) Deep ones are
> serious
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ping: Anton
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/60cc25b0b70f3f92?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 12:08 pm
From: RicodJour
In case you didn't catch last night's Daily Show with Jon Stewart - I
think you'll appreciate it.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-june-1-2011/me-lover-s-pizza-with-crazy-broad
R
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 1:47 pm
From: Anton Berlin
Jon get's pizza.
It's a passion. Thanks
==============================================================================
TOPIC: CBS To Armstrong's Attorneys--
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/6ae19c98e9f84a00?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 12:19 pm
From: RicodJour
On Jun 2, 1:46 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
> "BL" <b...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:aaSdnRS4KpapJ3vQnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > 60 MINUTES stands by its story as truthful, accurate and fair. Lance
> > Armstrong and his lawyers were given numerous opportunities to respond
> > to every detail of our reporting for weeks prior to the broadcast and
> > their written responses were fairly and accurately included in the
> > story. Mr. Armstrong still has not addressed charges by teammates
> > Tyler Hamilton and George Hincapie that he used performance enhancing
> > drugs with them. 1) The letter from Keker & Van Nest, Mr. Armstrong's
> > attorneys, claims that there was no "positive" or "suspicious" test
> > from the 2001 Tour de Suisse: Mr. Armstrong's teammate, Tyler
> > Hamilton, told 60 MINUTES about the 2001 Tour de Suisse test. Included
> > in his interview are the same facts that Hamilton reported under oath
> > to U.S. federal officials under the penalty of perjury. 60 MINUTES
> > also reported that the Swiss Anti-Doping Laboratory Director, Dr.
> > Martial Saugy, told U.S. officials and the FBI that that there was a
> > "suspicious" test result from the Tour de Suisse in 2001. This was
> > confirmed by a number of international officials who have linked the
> > "suspicious" test to Armstrong. In recent days, Dr. Saugy finally
> > confirmed to the media that there were "suspicious" test results. 2)
> > The letter from Armstrong's attorneys claims that 60 MINUTES was
> > inaccurate in reporting about a meeting between Dr. Saugy, Mr.
> > Armstrong and former U.S. Postal Team Director, Johan Bruyneel: 60
> > Minutes reported there was a meeting between Dr. Saugy, Mr. Armstrong
> > and Mr. Bruyneel. Dr. Saugy refused our requests for an interview, but
> > after the broadcast he confirmed that the meeting took place. Mr.
> > Armstrong, after our broadcast, said he couldn't recall that any such
> > meeting took place. 3) Mr. Armstrong's lawyers claim our story was
> > "shoddy," while we found at least three inaccuracies in their letter:
> > They claimed that 60 MINUTES reported the meeting took place at the
> > Swiss lab; they claimed that 60 MINUTES reported the meeting took
> > place in 2001; and they claimed that 60 MINUTES said it was a "secret"
> > meeting. All three are wrong. David Howman, managing director of the
> > World Anti-Doping Agency, told 60 MINUTES that any meeting between
> > Mr.Armstrong, Mr. Brunyeel and the Swiss lab director, Dr. Saugy,
> > would be "highly unusual" and "inappropriate." Jeff Fager, chairman,
> > CBS News, executive producer, 60 MINUTES
>
> And here's the problem with Tyler Hamilton and the 60 minutes piece-
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/swiss-lab-director-confirms-meeting-b...
>
> So you believe that Dr. Saugy is in on the fix as well? That he didn't
> actually meet with other teams & riders, that he wasn't actually
> concerned that the test, at that time, was susceptible to false
> positives? Let's face it, the 60 minutes piece was incredibly shoddy
> journalism for not looking doing any research beyond Tyler's
> allegations. They hid behind "We tried to talk to Lance" stuff as if
> that was the extent of due dillegence the story required.
>
> Brian, you'd better hope Novitsky is one heck of a lot sharper tool than
> most of the journalists. It's not as if Cyclingnews is the last word in
> investigative reporting, yet they seem to have done a far better job
> than 60 minutes. The same cyclingnews that had Ricco sitting tight for
> the past week with Amore e Vita and then out of the blue announces he's
> signed with Meridian-Kamen.
>
> Someone else here pointed out the dangers of "confirmation bias" the
> other day. 60 minutes would seem as guilty as anyone here. The worst
> thing about this is that it delays the truth. It allows the PR guys and
> lawyers to continue their seemingly-endless dance around the truth.
>
> I guess it should be no surprise that, the more dedicated to someone's
> eradication, the more they take on the characteristics of that which
> they wish to destroy.
>
> Isn't there enough factual truth (as opposed to that which people wish
> to be true) to convict Lance, without having to resort to half-truths,
> distortions and outright lies? Maybe there is, but it's being obscured
> by the shoddy stuff.
How would the truth help sales? Fear and bullshit sells. Look at
Ailes' $ input to Murdoch's empire. And as Ailes said, "This isn't
journalism, it's a TV show."
R
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Doping and game theory
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/21cd5ff36be29132?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 1:32 pm
From: Ryan Cousineau
On Thursday, 2 June 2011 07:22:11 UTC-7, Brad Anders wrote:
> On Jun 1, 5:30 pm, Anton Berlin <truth...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Steroids probably harmful - look at football and rassling (post
> > Wallace Beery)
>
> Fairly easy to detect, so regular monitoring could eliminate most of
> this.
>
> > EPO ? I f taken like the Belgian's eat chocolate and potatoes -
> > harmful.
> >
> > If microdosed and Dr. supervised no harm that we know about other than
> > 'frothing at the mouth" and unhappy face syndrome.
>
> Agree. Same with low-level testosterone.
>
> Legalization, monitoring, and having docs manage the process makes a
> lot more sense than what's going on today.
If you commit to sufficient monitoring and doctor-management to prevent people from using unsafe doses, 1. how is that easier than not letting them dose at all? 2. How is it better than not letting them dose at all? 3. How are the incentives biased in favor of your proposal?
(Answer key: 1. not at all; 2. not at all; 3. not at all)
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 3:42 pm
From: Brad Anders
On Jun 2, 1:32 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, 2 June 2011 07:22:11 UTC-7, Brad Anders wrote:
> > On Jun 1, 5:30 pm, Anton Berlin <truth...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Steroids probably harmful - look at football and rassling (post
> > > Wallace Beery)
>
> > Fairly easy to detect, so regular monitoring could eliminate most of
> > this.
>
> > > EPO ? I f taken like the Belgian's eat chocolate and potatoes -
> > > harmful.
>
> > > If microdosed and Dr. supervised no harm that we know about other than
> > > 'frothing at the mouth" and unhappy face syndrome.
>
> > Agree. Same with low-level testosterone.
>
> > Legalization, monitoring, and having docs manage the process makes a
> > lot more sense than what's going on today.
>
> If you commit to sufficient monitoring and doctor-management to prevent people from using unsafe doses, 1. how is that easier than not letting them dose at all? 2. How is it better than not letting them dose at all? 3. How are the incentives biased in favor of your proposal?
>
> (Answer key: 1. not at all; 2. not at all; 3. not at all)
1. Why does it have to be easier?
2. Better because it's out in the open (end of the big lie), docs are
directly monitoring the process (e.g. avoid infection, contaminants,
keeping dosages in control, etc.), sponsors know up front what they're
paying for (and can't give us BS later on, a la USPS), potential pro
cyclists know what they're getting into, etc.
3. Incentives are that athletes know what they're up against instead
of guessing (exact drugs, dosage levels, costs, etc.), event results
aren't dependent on court rulings, but best of all, being kicked out
of the Olympics to avoid IOC corruption.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: They are now going on to bike paths to run us down.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/7c1f9e12fadefe92?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 2 2011 4:55 pm
From: Brad Anders
On May 31, 10:20 pm, Fred Bucephalus Birchmore
<fred.b.birchm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/may/31/suv-veers-off-sr56-bic...
Who here hasn't had a vehicle narrowly miss them in similar
circumstances? Those two were just unlucky.
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