rec.bicycles.racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing?hl=enrec.bicycles.racing@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Fabiani discusses the facts4lance debacle - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4fc9fb2bb20cef12?hl=en
* Outliers - The Story of Success - My Rant - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/74a8e44dc830a79f?hl=en
* Tour de Suisse, stage 2 summary - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/6b53afbfff046cd5?hl=en
* Tyler--Lance Run In Post-60 Minutes - 12 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/9abe5e1a6e312465?hl=en
* Criterium du Dauphine, stage 7 summary - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/b0f7427b6a81ab0c?hl=en
* Andy in Chains - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c3b3bb82605c3cf2?hl=en
* Tour de Suisse, stage 3 summary - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/07ffda569e9ecab9?hl=en
* Doping and game theory - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/21cd5ff36be29132?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fabiani discusses the facts4lance debacle
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/4fc9fb2bb20cef12?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 12 2011 7:01 pm
From: Anne Onime
What a mess. Hope Lance is paying him well.
Sounds like he's worth every penny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPVsWDtXXmk
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 8:41 am
From: BL
On 6/12/2011 10:01 PM, Anne Onime wrote:
> What a mess. Hope Lance is paying him well.
> Sounds like he's worth every penny:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPVsWDtXXmk
>
LOL! Team time trial. Is that what you guys call it?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Outliers - The Story of Success - My Rant
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/74a8e44dc830a79f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 1:39 am
From: DC
Fred Flintstein said the following on 11/06/2011 12:36 PM:
> As I've said before, first they have to find a law that
> he's violated. I think Novitsky will need some luck with
> that.
Have him testify before a grand jury. He might well break the law then.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 6:18 am
From: Fred Flintstein
On 6/13/2011 3:39 AM, DC wrote:
> Fred Flintstein said the following on 11/06/2011 12:36 PM:
>> As I've said before, first they have to find a law that
>> he's violated. I think Novitsky will need some luck with
>> that.
>
> Have him testify before a grand jury. He might well break the law then.
>
>
Dumbass,
I don't recall.
F
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 12:03 pm
From: Phil H
On Jun 13, 6:18 am, Fred Flintstein <bob.schwa...@sbcremoveglobal.net>
wrote:
> On 6/13/2011 3:39 AM, DC wrote:
>
> > Fred Flintstein said the following on 11/06/2011 12:36 PM:
> >> As I've said before, first they have to find a law that
> >> he's violated. I think Novitsky will need some luck with
> >> that.
>
> > Have him testify before a grand jury. He might well break the law then.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> I don't recall.
>
> F
Ask Marion Jones and Tammy Thomas about what law they broke. If Lance
did take drugs and he lies about it to the GJ then he risks the same
fate.
Phil H
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 12:28 pm
From: Fred Flintstein
On 6/13/2011 2:03 PM, Phil H wrote:
> On Jun 13, 6:18 am, Fred Flintstein<bob.schwa...@sbcremoveglobal.net>
> wrote:
>> On 6/13/2011 3:39 AM, DC wrote:
>>
>>> Fred Flintstein said the following on 11/06/2011 12:36 PM:
>>>> As I've said before, first they have to find a law that
>>>> he's violated. I think Novitsky will need some luck with
>>>> that.
>>
>>> Have him testify before a grand jury. He might well break the law then.
>>
>> Dumbass,
>>
>> I don't recall.
>>
>> F
>
> Ask Marion Jones and Tammy Thomas about what law they broke. If Lance
> did take drugs and he lies about it to the GJ then he risks the same
> fate.
> Phil H
Dumbass,
I'm not familiar with Marion Jones case. But TT did not get convicted
for lying about taking dope. She was convicted for lying about where
she got it. Since she got it from a source that was manufacturing it
illegally, she paid the price. Because, and please pay attention, it
was relevant to a criminal prosecution.
As I have been telling dumbasses like yourself for a long time now,
doping for a bike race is not a criminal act. If he doped and doped and
doped and doped and doped and doped and doped and doped and doped and
doped and doped and doped and doped and doped and doped and doped, and
then said he didn't take any dope, the odds of a perjury conviction
are very remote in all jurisdictions except the crazy ass one between
Lafferty's ears.
And if they ask a difficult question about something 10 years ago or
more, "I don't recall" has no chance of hanging him on perjury.
Establishing that a law was violated is not going to be a trivial task.
The odds of LANCE facing a perjury conviction are laughable.
F
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tour de Suisse, stage 2 summary
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/6b53afbfff046cd5?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 1:39 am
From: Bob Martin
Stage 2 : Jun 12, Airolo - Crans-Montana, 149 km
1 Juan Mauricio Soler (Col) Movistar Team 4.23.20
2 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre - ISD 0.12
3 Frank Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek
4 Danilo Di Luca (Ita) Katusha Team 0.16
5 Bauke Mollema (Ned) Rabobank Cycling Team 0.18
6 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Team RadioShack 0.34
7 Tejay Van Garderen (USA) HTC-Highroad 0.36
8 Mathias Frank (Swi) BMC Racing Team 0.39
9 Eros Capecchi (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale 0.47
10 Laurens Ten Dam (Ned) Rabobank Cycling Team
Changes in GC, stage 2 compared to stage 1 :
Biggest gainers by position :
+122 Ruslan Podgornyy
+121 Andy Schleck
+109 Cristiano Salerno
+101 Francisco Javier Aramendia Llorente
+100 Bartosz Huzarski
+99 Angel Madrazo Ruiz
+98 Giampaolo Caruso
+83 Sergey Lagutin
+77 Dmitriy Muravyev
+66 Valery Kobzarenko
Biggest losers by position :
-101 Fabian Cancellara
-98 Gregory Henderson
-82 Manuele Boaro
-78 Thor Hushovd
-75 Rinaldo Nocentini
-74 Stuart O'Grady
-73 Andrew Talansky
-73 Heinrich Haussler
-73 Maciej Bodnar
-72 Martin Velits
-70 Luke Roberts
Biggest gainers by time :
+0:28 Juan Mauricio Soler Hernandez
+0:12 Damiano Cunego
+0:10 Frank Schleck
+0:02 Danilo Di Luca
Biggest losers by time :
-23:41 Allan Davis
-22:14 Gregory Henderson
-22:14 Mirco Lorenzetto
-19:51 Bert Grabsch
-18:00 Laszlo Bodrogi
-17:26 Alessandro Ballan
-17:26 Alexander Gottfried
-17:26 Alfredo Balloni
-17:26 Aliaksandr Kuchynski
-17:26 Andrew Talansky
-17:26 Baden Cooke
Favourites by position :
+121 Andy Schleck
+57 Frank Schleck
+54 Danilo Di Luca
+30 Ryder Hesjedal
+15 Damiano Cunego
+12 Sylvain Chavanel
+3 Levi Leipheimer
-6 Linus Gerdemann
-12 Allan Davis
-32 Jens Voigt
-32 Christian Vande Velde
-50 Alessandro Ballan
-66 Andreas Kloden
-74 Stuart O'Grady
-101 Fabian Cancellara
Favourites by time :
+0:12 Damiano Cunego
+0:10 Frank Schleck
+0:02 Danilo Di Luca
-0:16 Levi Leipheimer
-1:21 Andy Schleck
-1:29 Linus Gerdemann
-5:09 Sylvain Chavanel
-5:35 Ryder Hesjedal
-10:28 Jens Voigt
-10:28 Andreas Kloden
-12:32 Christian Vande Velde
-17:26 Stuart O'Grady
-17:26 Fabian Cancellara
-17:26 Alessandro Ballan
-23:41 Allan Davis
Top 10 and favourites GC standings (previous stage in parens) :
1 Juan Mauricio Soler Hernandez 4:33:19 (was 18th at 0:28)
2 Damiano Cunego 0:16 (was 17th at 0:28)
3 Bauke Mollema 0:22 (was 8th at 0:22)
4 Tejay Van Garderen 0:27 (was 2nd at 0:09)
5 Frank Schleck 0:31 (was 62nd at 0:41)
6 Levi Leipheimer 0:38 (was 9th at 0:22)
7 Danilo Di Luca 0:39 (was 61st at 0:41)
8 Mathias Frank 0:52 (was 24th at 0:31)
9 Christopher Froome 1:02 (was 11th at 0:24)
10 Eros Capecchi 1:05 (was 42nd at 0:36)
.....
16 Linus Gerdemann 1:51 (was 10th at 0:22)
.....
26 Andy Schleck 2:39 (was 147th at 1:18)
.....
40 Sylvain Chavanel 5:47 (was 52nd at 0:38)
.....
46 Ryder Hesjedal 6:23 (was 76th at 0:48)
.....
71 Andreas Kloden 10:46 (was 5th at 0:18)
.....
76 Jens Voigt 11:04 (was 44th at 0:36)
.....
86 Christian Vande Velde 13:11 (was 54th at 0:39)
.....
102 Fabian Cancellara 17:26 (was 1st at 0:00)
.....
105 Stuart O'Grady 17:59 (was 31st at 0:33)
.....
113 Alessandro Ballan 18:08 (was 63rd at 0:42)
.....
160 Allan Davis 24:59 (was 148th at 1:18)
Top 10 on Points table
1 Lloyd Mondory 12
2 Jose Gutierrez Palacios 6
3 Andre Greipel 1
4 Alessandro Bazzana 1
Top 10 on Mountains table
1 Matti Breschel 20
2 Heinrich Haussler 15
3 Mathias Frank 12
4 Damiano Caruso 10
5 Laurens Ten Dam 8
6 Levi Leipheimer 6
7 Lloyd Mondory 6
8 Damiano Cunego 4
9 Enrico Magazzini 4
10 Bauke Mollema 2
Retirements to date : Stage
Total retirements : 0
(This report can also be seen at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rvmartin2)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tyler--Lance Run In Post-60 Minutes
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/9abe5e1a6e312465?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 1:54 am
From: Simply Fred
Marco wrote:
> What I don't really get is why you think it's necessary to parrot back
> to rbr things you learn from lurking twiiter accounts or in the cn
> clinic. It's particularly lame when you are "reporting" things that
> have been known by many/most for a long time. And even if not widely
> known, do you really think people here care? What is your point? Did
> you see yourself clearly in Papp's comment in the PZ thread about the
> strange people who get so emotionally invested in this scenario when
> it has practically zero impact on their lives? Serious question... how
> many hours do you think you have spent on the internet reading or
> writing about Lance's doping? (I guess I don't really expect you will
> answer that.)
The CIA optimized him for monitoring twitter accounts.
== 2 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 7:26 am
From: BL
On 6/12/2011 11:28 PM, Marco wrote:
> On Jun 12, 1:11 pm, BL<b...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Tyler was in town to host a ride for the Outside in Aspen. It was
>> organized by Outside magazine. There was a bunch of people from Outside
>> magazine in the bar watching it unfold. Tyler actually tried to give
>> Lance the bro-hug and lance brushed him off. Tyler didn't take it that
>> well, was shook up by it.http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=12137&page=265
>>
>> http://twitter.com/#!/GraysonSchaffer
>>
>> Also, it seems that Haven's new boyfriend is also Levi's new lawyer.
>> Small world.
>
> What I don't really get is why you think it's necessary to parrot back
> to rbr things you learn from lurking twiiter accounts or in the cn
> clinic. It's particularly lame when you are "reporting" things that
> have been known by many/most for a long time. And even if not widely
> known, do you really think people here care? What is your point? Did
> you see yourself clearly in Papp's comment in the PZ thread about the
> strange people who get so emotionally invested in this scenario when
> it has practically zero impact on their lives? Serious question... how
> many hours do you think you have spent on the internet reading or
> writing about Lance's doping? (I guess I don't really expect you will
> answer that.)
Marco, the idea is to factually educate the Lance fanboys here on rbr.
Cheers.
== 3 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 7:48 am
From: BL
On 6/12/2011 10:12 PM, Anton Berlin wrote:
> On Jun 12, 3:11 pm, BL<b...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Tyler was in town to host a ride for the Outside in Aspen. It was
>> organized by Outside magazine. There was a bunch of people from Outside
>> magazine in the bar watching it unfold. Tyler actually tried to give
>> Lance the bro-hug and lance brushed him off. Tyler didn't take it that
>> well, was shook up by it.http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=12137&page=265
>>
>> http://twitter.com/#!/GraysonSchaffer
>>
>> Also, it seems that Haven's new boyfriend is also Levi's new lawyer.
>> Small world.
>
> This is dated 2009 - drug dealer joe papp also in the thread
http://outside-blog.away.com/blog/2011/06/lance-armstrong-and-tyler-hamilton-walk-into-a-bar.html
== 4 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 7:50 am
From: BL
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8736/Hamilton-barred-from-Aspen-restaurant-after-Armstrong-argument.aspx
== 5 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 8:14 am
From: Brad Anders
On Jun 13, 7:26 am, BL <b...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Marco, the idea is to factually educate the Lance fanboys here on rbr.
> Cheers.
BL, of the regular posters here, who do you think qualifies as a LA
"fanboy"? Even Mike J. makes it clear that he thinks LA is a doper. I
think LA's a doper, everyone I know here thinks he's a doper, too. I
don't see much support for him here. Only thing I see are a lot of
people who think that LA isn't the anti-Christ, aren't obsessed with
his prosecution, and think that even if he's tossed into a supermax
that a large number of pro cyclists will continue to dope unabated.
Who are you trying to "educate" with this stuff that we all have read
and know?
== 6 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 8:14 am
From: Scott
On Jun 13, 8:26 am, BL <b...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 6/12/2011 11:28 PM, Marco wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 12, 1:11 pm, BL<b...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> Tyler was in town to host a ride for the Outside in Aspen. It was
> >> organized by Outside magazine. There was a bunch of people from Outside
> >> magazine in the bar watching it unfold. Tyler actually tried to give
> >> Lance the bro-hug and lance brushed him off. Tyler didn't take it that
> >> well, was shook up by it.http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=12137&page=265
>
> >>http://twitter.com/#!/GraysonSchaffer
>
> >> Also, it seems that Haven's new boyfriend is also Levi's new lawyer.
> >> Small world.
>
> > What I don't really get is why you think it's necessary to parrot back
> > to rbr things you learn from lurking twiiter accounts or in the cn
> > clinic. It's particularly lame when you are "reporting" things that
> > have been known by many/most for a long time. And even if not widely
> > known, do you really think people here care? What is your point? Did
> > you see yourself clearly in Papp's comment in the PZ thread about the
> > strange people who get so emotionally invested in this scenario when
> > it has practically zero impact on their lives? Serious question... how
> > many hours do you think you have spent on the internet reading or
> > writing about Lance's doping? (I guess I don't really expect you will
> > answer that.)
>
> Marco, the idea is to factually educate the Lance fanboys here on rbr.
> Cheers.
Yeah, 'cause we'd never see those factual articles if you didn't post
the links. Thank you, you are a godsend.
== 7 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 8:27 am
From: BL
On 6/13/2011 11:14 AM, Brad Anders wrote:
> On Jun 13, 7:26 am, BL<b...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Marco, the idea is to factually educate the Lance fanboys here on rbr.
>> Cheers.
>
> BL, of the regular posters here, who do you think qualifies as a LA
> "fanboy"? Even Mike J. makes it clear that he thinks LA is a doper. I
> think LA's a doper, everyone I know here thinks he's a doper, too. I
> don't see much support for him here. Only thing I see are a lot of
> people who think that LA isn't the anti-Christ, aren't obsessed with
> his prosecution, and think that even if he's tossed into a supermax
> that a large number of pro cyclists will continue to dope unabated.
>
> Who are you trying to "educate" with this stuff that we all have read
> and know?
You can accept that Armstrong is a doper and still be a fanboy. There
are very few posters here at rbr anymore who aren't fanboys, Brad. ;-)
== 8 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 8:27 am
From: BL
On 6/13/2011 11:14 AM, Scott wrote:
> On Jun 13, 8:26 am, BL<b...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On 6/12/2011 11:28 PM, Marco wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 12, 1:11 pm, BL<b...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> Tyler was in town to host a ride for the Outside in Aspen. It was
>>>> organized by Outside magazine. There was a bunch of people from Outside
>>>> magazine in the bar watching it unfold. Tyler actually tried to give
>>>> Lance the bro-hug and lance brushed him off. Tyler didn't take it that
>>>> well, was shook up by it.http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=12137&page=265
>>
>>>> http://twitter.com/#!/GraysonSchaffer
>>
>>>> Also, it seems that Haven's new boyfriend is also Levi's new lawyer.
>>>> Small world.
>>
>>> What I don't really get is why you think it's necessary to parrot back
>>> to rbr things you learn from lurking twiiter accounts or in the cn
>>> clinic. It's particularly lame when you are "reporting" things that
>>> have been known by many/most for a long time. And even if not widely
>>> known, do you really think people here care? What is your point? Did
>>> you see yourself clearly in Papp's comment in the PZ thread about the
>>> strange people who get so emotionally invested in this scenario when
>>> it has practically zero impact on their lives? Serious question... how
>>> many hours do you think you have spent on the internet reading or
>>> writing about Lance's doping? (I guess I don't really expect you will
>>> answer that.)
>>
>> Marco, the idea is to factually educate the Lance fanboys here on rbr.
>> Cheers.
>
> Yeah, 'cause we'd never see those factual articles if you didn't post
> the links. Thank you, you are a godsend.
You're more than welcome.
== 9 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 8:52 am
From: Fred Flintstein
On 6/13/2011 10:27 AM, BL wrote:
> On 6/13/2011 11:14 AM, Brad Anders wrote:
>> On Jun 13, 7:26 am, BL<b...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Marco, the idea is to factually educate the Lance fanboys here on rbr.
>>> Cheers.
>>
>> BL, of the regular posters here, who do you think qualifies as a LA
>> "fanboy"? Even Mike J. makes it clear that he thinks LA is a doper. I
>> think LA's a doper, everyone I know here thinks he's a doper, too. I
>> don't see much support for him here. Only thing I see are a lot of
>> people who think that LA isn't the anti-Christ, aren't obsessed with
>> his prosecution, and think that even if he's tossed into a supermax
>> that a large number of pro cyclists will continue to dope unabated.
>>
>> Who are you trying to "educate" with this stuff that we all have read
>> and know?
> You can accept that Armstrong is a doper and still be a fanboy. There
> are very few posters here at rbr anymore who aren't fanboys, Brad. ;-)
Blowing off appeals to rational behavior is one of the foundations of
the 'bot code. There is no clearer signature.
I never should have open sourced it.
F
== 10 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 9:10 am
From: Ben Trovato
On Jun 13, 7:50 am, BL <b...@verizon.net> wrote:
> http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8736/Hamilton-barred-from-Aspen-res...
For the non-francophones, the restaurant's name "cache cache" means
"hide-and-seek".
== 11 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 9:50 am
From: "William R. Mattil"
On 6/13/2011 10:27 AM, BL wrote:
> You can accept that Armstrong is a doper and still be a fanboy. There
> are very few posters here at rbr anymore who aren't fanboys, Brad. ;-)
On a hunch I ran this through Babelfish in an attempt to get a
translation for it. Interesting ..............
What it means is that anyone not in favor of lynching LA and not
agreeing with Laff is a fanboi
Pretty broad brush there Brian.
Bill
--
William R. Mattil
http://www.celestial-images.com
== 12 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 10:10 am
From: BL
On 6/13/2011 12:50 PM, William R. Mattil wrote:
> On 6/13/2011 10:27 AM, BL wrote:
>
>> You can accept that Armstrong is a doper and still be a fanboy. There
>> are very few posters here at rbr anymore who aren't fanboys, Brad. ;-)
>
>
> On a hunch I ran this through Babelfish in an attempt to get a
> translation for it. Interesting ..............
>
> What it means is that anyone not in favor of lynching LA and not
> agreeing with Laff is a fanboi
>
>
> Pretty broad brush there Brian.
>
>
> Bill
Try again, Fanboy.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Criterium du Dauphine, stage 7 summary
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/b0f7427b6a81ab0c?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 2:07 am
From: Simply Fred
Bob Martin wrote:
> Top 10 and favourites GC standings (previous stage in parens) :
> 1 Bradley Wiggins 26:40:51 (unchanged)
I wonder if Bwadwee hasn't peaked a tad early if a TDF podium is his aim ?
> 2 Cadel Evans 1:26 (unchanged)
Whereas CFE might have come into the the DL at just the right level of form.
> 6 Christophe Kern 3:05 (was 5th at 2:52)
I wonder if you can still get good odds on him being the top French
rider at the TDF this year.
> 26 Ivan Basso 24:36 (was 33rd at 14:15)
Where's Birillo when you need him ? To be fair he did seem to be getting
his legs back on the last 2 stages.
> 37 Tony Martin 28:30 (was 72nd at 27:38)
I can't understand why he targets tours when he's got the same kind of
engine (and weight) as Cancellara for the classics.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Andy in Chains
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/c3b3bb82605c3cf2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 4:05 am
From: Victor Kan
On Jun 12, 9:23 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
...
> I keep imagining a Python-esque skit: SRAM, SRAM, SRAM, SRAM...
Except that Schleck and Leopard-Trek are on Shimano this year.
There's gotta be a Python sketch that'll work with Shimano or Schleck
though.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 8:17 am
From: Scott
On Jun 13, 5:05 am, Victor Kan <victor....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 12, 9:23 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ...
>
> > I keep imagining a Python-esque skit: SRAM, SRAM, SRAM, SRAM...
>
> Except that Schleck and Leopard-Trek are on Shimano this year.
> There's gotta be a Python sketch that'll work with Shimano or Schleck
> though.
Hmmmm, maybe they should be on SRAM??? ;-)
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 1:05 pm
From: Frederick the Great
In article
<3672dae2-e148-4462-925a-ab8890d1946f@t9g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>,
Victor Kan <victor.kan@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 12, 9:23 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> > I keep imagining a Python-esque skit: SRAM, SRAM, SRAM, SRAM...
>
> Except that Schleck and Leopard-Trek are on Shimano this year.
> There's gotta be a Python sketch that'll work with Shimano or Schleck
> though.
It's rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible.
_This_ is an ex-chain.
--
Old Fritz
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tour de Suisse, stage 3 summary
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/07ffda569e9ecab9?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 10:27 am
From: Bob Martin
Stage 3 : Jun 13, Brig-Glis - Grindelwald, 107.6 km
1 Peter Sagan (Svk) Liquigas-Cannondale 3.09.47
2 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre - ISD
3 Jakob Fuglsang (Den) Leopard Trek 0.21
4 Laurens Ten Dam (Ned) Rabobank Cycling Team
5 Giampaolo Caruso (Ita) Katusha Team 0.48
6 Tejay Van Garderen (USA) HTC-Highroad 1.04
7 Frank Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek
8 Bauke Mollema (Ned) Rabobank Cycling Team
9 Juan Mauricio Soler (Col) Movistar Team
10 Francis De Greef (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto
Changes in GC, stage 3 compared to stage 2 :
Biggest gainers by position :
+90 Mickael Cherel
+44 Matthew Harley Goss
+44 Matteo Montaguti
+42 Peter Sagan
+40 Simon Clarke
+39 Mathew Hayman
+38 Mads Christensen
+35 Nelson Oliveira
+35 Christian Vande Velde
+34 Ruben Perez Moreno
Biggest losers by position :
-37 Bartosz Huzarski
-37 Kristof Vandewalle
-35 Artem Ovechkin
-35 Damiano Caruso
-34 Sylvain Chavanel
-31 Lloyd Mondory
-31 Tom Slagter
-30 Dominique Nerz
-29 Jack Bobridge
-27 Adam Hansen
-27 Nick Nuyens
Biggest gainers by time :
+0:20 Peter Sagan
+0:16 Damiano Cunego
Biggest losers by time :
-24:11 Oleksandr Kvachuk
-24:08 Kristof Vandewalle
-23:43 Robbie McEwen
-22:23 Jack Bobridge
-22:19 Alessandro Bazzana
-22:19 Baden Cooke
-22:19 Bernhard Eisel
-22:19 Bert Grabsch
-22:19 Daniele Calligarin
-22:19 Gregory Henderson
-22:19 Jaroslaw Marycz
Favourites by position :
+35 Christian Vande Velde
+29 Andreas Kloden
+21 Alessandro Ballan
+20 Ryder Hesjedal
+14 Fabian Cancellara
+6 Andy Schleck
+2 Linus Gerdemann
+1 Damiano Cunego
-1 Frank Schleck
-1 Danilo Di Luca
-3 Stuart O'Grady
-4 Levi Leipheimer
-10 Jens Voigt
-34 Sylvain Chavanel
Favourites by time :
+0:16 Damiano Cunego
-0:54 Frank Schleck
-1:14 Danilo Di Luca
-1:18 Linus Gerdemann
-1:32 Levi Leipheimer
-3:31 Andy Schleck
-3:35 Ryder Hesjedal
-7:29 Christian Vande Velde
-7:30 Andreas Kloden
-13:44 Alessandro Ballan
-14:05 Fabian Cancellara
-18:32 Jens Voigt
-18:35 Stuart O'Grady
-20:39 Sylvain Chavanel
Top 10 and favourites GC standings (previous stage in parens) :
1 Damiano Cunego 7:43:16 (was 2nd at 0:16)
2 Juan Mauricio Soler Hernandez 0:54 (was 1st at 0:00)
3 Bauke Mollema 1:16 (was 3rd at 0:22)
4 Laurens ten Dam 1:19 (was 12th at 1:08)
5 Tejay Van Garderen 1:21 (was 4th at 0:27)
6 Frank Schleck 1:25 (was 5th at 0:31)
7 Jakob Fuglsang 1:32 (was 13th at 1:26)
8 Danilo Di Luca 1:53 (was 7th at 0:39)
9 Steven Kruijswijk 2:00 (was 11th at 1:06)
10 Levi Leipheimer 2:10 (was 6th at 0:38)
.....
14 Linus Gerdemann 3:09 (was 16th at 1:51)
.....
20 Andy Schleck 6:10 (was 26th at 2:39)
.....
26 Ryder Hesjedal 9:58 (was 46th at 6:23)
.....
42 Andreas Kloden 18:16 (was 71st at 10:46)
.....
51 Christian Vande Velde 20:40 (was 86th at 13:11)
.....
74 Sylvain Chavanel 26:26 (was 40th at 5:47)
.....
86 Jens Voigt 29:36 (was 76th at 11:04)
.....
88 Fabian Cancellara 31:31 (was 102nd at 17:26)
.....
92 Alessandro Ballan 31:52 (was 113rd at 18:08)
.....
108 Stuart O'Grady 36:34 (was 105th at 17:59)
Top 10 on Points table with previous in parens:
1 Lloyd Mondory 12 (unchanged)
2 Jan Bakelants 6 (was 0 points)
3 Jens Voigt 6 (was 0 points)
4 Jose Gutierrez Palacios 6 (was 2nd with 6 points)
5 Daryl Impey 3 (was 0 points)
6 Enrico Gasparotto 3 (was 0 points)
7 Jakob Fuglsang (was 0 points)
8 Christian Vandevelde (was 0 points)
9 Andre Greipel (was 3rd with 1 points)
10 Alessandro Bazzana (was 4th with 1 points)
Top 10 on Mountains table with previous in parens:
1 Laurens Ten Dam 31 (was 5th with 8 points)
2 Damiano Cunego 24 (was 8th with 4 points)
3 Matti Breschel 20 (was 1st with 20 points)
4 Ryder Hesjedal 15 (was 0 points)
5 Mathias Frank 12 (was 3rd with 12 points)
6 Wouter Poels 12 (was 0 points)
7 Jakob Fuglsang 10 (was 0 points)
8 Damiano Caruso 10 (was 4th with 10 points)
9 Levi Leipheimer 6 (was 6th with 6 points)
10 Andy Schleck 6 (was 0 points)
Retirements to date : Stage
Alfredo Balloni (Ita) Lampre - ISD 3 <<<
Allan Davis (Aus) Pro Team Astana 3 <<<
Andrew Talansky (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo 3 <<<
Cristiano Salerno (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale 3 <<<
Gabriel Rasch (Nor) Team Garmin-Cervelo 3 <<<
Jussi Veikkanen (Fin) Omega Pharma-Lotto 3 <<<
Total retirements : 6
(This report can also be seen at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rvmartin2)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Doping and game theory
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/t/21cd5ff36be29132?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 11:43 am
From: Frederick the Great
In article
<8edff82d-1d26-49d1-a2cc-1f386f7f3218@34g2000pru.googlegroups.com>,
steve <SJgerdemann@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 12, 8:46 am, Robert Chung <rechungremovet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 12, 7:46 am, Robert Chung <rechungremovet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jun 12, 1:22 am, "A. Dumas" <alexan...@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > > Robert Chung wrote:
> > > > > On Jun 9, 9:42 pm, Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
> > > > >> The problem we have is that a system designed to
> > > > >> eliminate doping doesn't do a particularly good
> > > > >> or fair job of reducing doping.
> >
> > > > > That's cuz we don't have a system designed to eliminate doping. We
> > > > > have a system designed to punish doping.
> >
> > > > And your ideas would be best described as: punish the facilitation or
> > > > acceptance of doping? Ideal would be to reward non-doping, I guess, but
> > > > it would get silly really quick: if you DON'T test positive you get,
> > > > what, a time bonus? An extra team mate next race? Use of radios? Wifi
> > > > access at the hotel?
> >
> > > Nope. My ideas are to reduce the incentive to dope, and to punish
> > > sporting violations with sporting penalties.
> >
> > But to add to my statement a couple of posts above, we don't have a
> > system designed to eliminate doping. We have a system that usually
> > rewards doping and occasionally punishes doping.
>
> Exactly!
>
> If you begin with the assumptions that
> 1 - Doping works. Is there any doubt?
> 2 – The advantage gained by doping is greater than the small
> differences between riders at the top level.
>
> Then no amount of training, equipment or whatever will allow the
> "clean" athlete to win.
>
> This inevitably leads to everyone doping. See my original post.
>
> I hope this isn't true but look at the list of past podiums at the
> Tour. Or the Giro and Veelta. How many do you think were clean?
>
> The sad part of this, to me, is that to be competitive you are forced
> to "cheat" and then lie about it. I personally don't this is good for
> either the physical or mental health of riders.
I think performance enhancing drugs taken as recommended
by a physician are not harmful.
The proper attitude for an athlete toward the hypocrisy
of cycling's anti-doping programs and witch hunting
civilians is disdain.
--
Old Fritz
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