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alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets - 26 new messages in 8 topics - digest

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alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets?hl=en

alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Ravens fan knocked out cold on HLN - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/1e025f319bd2a489?hl=en
* OT very political - 6 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/72e25b2a850724b1?hl=en
* Conner hurt& Payne broke his wrist - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/a5b1279c62ea9d80?hl=en
* Fly, Jets, Fly a new poem by JetsLife - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/3ab971451f0a960f?hl=en
* Gholston blames Rex - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/b9915ce5a7162047?hl=en
* Didn't anybody here watch the Jets / Giants game? - 11 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/7bcc25a188b52f85?hl=en
* Turnover Differential, Jets INTs - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/e63cd756f7f0d93d?hl=en
* You Have A Dangerous,Deadly,Punitive,Terrific Storm Coming! Be Safe!! - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/a571b69501b5a84d?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ravens fan knocked out cold on HLN
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/1e025f319bd2a489?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 31 2011 9:59 pm
From: Brian M Davis


On Aug 31, 10:47 pm, "RävNsfän ®" <noemai...@nospam4me.org> wrote:
> "Brian M Davis" <bdavi...@carolina.rr.com> wrote in messagenews:e2dad95b-198e-4406-9656-da88bfc94762@a27g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 30, 8:15 pm, "RävNsfän ®" <noemai...@nospam4me.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Brian M Davis" <bdavi...@carolina.rr.com> wrote in
> > messagenews:eb144c63-27d1-4ac7-94c6-839bd5c989ca@33g2000yqu.googlegroups.com...
> > On Aug 29, 11:53 am, "RävNsfän ®" <noemai...@nospam4me.org> wrote:
>
> > > "torched" <**~.@.~*> wrote in
> > > messagenews:4e5a85ee$1@news.x-privat.org...
>
> > > : On 8/28/2011 1:56 PM, RävNsfän ® wrote:
> > > : > Brian M Davis<bdavi...@carolina.rr.com> wrote in
> > > news:f3cbee61-77f9-44b8-
> > > : > b572-1147a06ba...@o26g2000vbi.googlegroups.com:
> > > : >
> > > : >>
> > > : >> Actually, my name is Laffy. Seeing you post the same old tired
> > > : >> material each and every time you visit a newsgroup not of your
> > > chosen
> > > : >> NFL team makes me laugh at your obviously pathetic need for
> > > : >> validation. Even more comical is the fact that you chose to imagine
> > > : >> seeing your name in the subject line of my post as an excuse to
> > > come,
> > > : >> yet again, to a newsgroup other than that of your chosen NFL
> > > so-called
> > > : >> team and lay your drivel about the place like turkey droppings in a
> > > : >> field of the finest organic crops (your pedophilic fascination for
> > > : >> classic Disney animation notwithstanding) and you claim to sense
> > > : >> loneliness on MY part? Let me tell ya this, twinkle-toes. If I ever
> > > : >> need your attention, I will definitely put "RävNsfän ®" in the
> > > subject
> > > : >> line - in your chosen NFL so-called team's newsgroup.
> > > : >>
> > > : >> That... I say... That dawg's about as thick as a whale sandwich!
> > > : >>
> > > : >>
> > > : >>
> > > : >>
> > > : > I have you following my every post like a trained poodle and posting
> > > to
> > > me
> > > : > as you (try) talk to others and you claim I have the blown gasket.
> > > Great
> > > : > diagnosis Jethro. Try self healing like I did.
> > > : >
> > > : > I have Moersh-Woltmann Syndrome, a rare disorder brought
> > > : > about as the result of a high speed rear impact vehicle
> > > : > collision back in 1997. I was rear-ended by someone from
> > > : > Pennsylvania, most likely a STEALERS fan. It won't kill me,
> > > : > but down the road diabetes will likely, and it has made me limp in
> > > the
> > > : > package. :-((
> > > :
> > > : fake
> > > :
> > > : Message-ID: <j3dvfv$sa...@speranza.aioe.org>
> > > : NNTP-Posting-Host: uGCV7urtbidH3xowU6y/hg.user.speranza.aioe.org
> > > : User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25
> > > : X-Complaints-To: ab...@aioe.org
>
> > > You have to admire that he is able to fool his in-patient psycho-analyst
> > > long enough to allow my mini-me wannabe back into the padded media-room.
> > > --
> > > ~Drew
>
> > > "Talk is cheap ...lets just go play"
> > > Johnny Unitas - Baltimore Colts
>
> > Why do you pay attention to posters who try to impersonate you?
>
> > Why not? ... It is fact that "imitation is the ultimate form of flattery".
> > Besides yourself in this ng there is the ultimate Tanktard and one other
> > regular who has yet to post with his real nick as he waits for the regular
> > season. There is also the former bengals ng head case, "kantou", aka:
> > Strongville Stan, reddog, jdwildone and Ricky Bobby. Additionally, former
> > Dallas fan, turned 49ers fan, Raiders fan, turned Chiefs fan, Marty B aka:
> > Ford Perfect.
>
> > Then again, it also entertains --> me <-- ...to agitate... ---> you <---
> > & ---> them <---. Now if you would stand up r-i-i-i-ght abo-o-o-ut
> > ...NOW..., this should smack you squarely in the forehead instead of
> > whizzing over same, ...as usual.
>
> > > I'm going to ease your mind and save you time all in one fell swoop,
> > > Drewsilla,
> > > only because I like you so much. WE KNOW WHEN YOU ARE BEING
> > > IMPERSONATED!! I personally never even have to read the header.
> > > Really.... No matter how good a job they do there is always something
> > > that tips the reader off. I'm amazed that you would be so concerned.
> > > It's just UseNet.
>
> > "WE" should indeed know when I am being impersonated since "WE" are but
> > one
> > of several that attempt such impersonations. I'm amazed that you aren't in
> > a
> > coma from all the roundhouse swings you take at others which miss to tag
> > only your own glass chin. So now please do advise, "WE", why YOU suddenly
> > are so concerned about what it is that you perceive concern me? ...tut tut
> > tut ...don't bother as that was rhetorical. Just know that in this and
> > similar scenarios you expose yourself if only because, ..."sometimes thou
> > doth protest too much"!
>
> > You recently posted using the same childish adaptation of my name,
> > Drewsilla, that you repeated in this post so that I would respond to same
> > directly. You might believe doing so can mask your intended solicitation
> > for
> > my attention but not so as it was far to obvious.
>
> > Of course when I respond to your blatant solicitation(s) you post wanting
> > to
> > appear to be stunned by the fact that I would respond to those, like
> > yourself, that attempt to impersonate. Most would minimally tire, if they
> > did not become outwardly embarrassed, by such perpetual displays of
> > hypocrisy. Dude, just stop punching yourself in the head.
>
> > ~Drew
>
> >      "Talk is cheap ...lets go play"
> >     Johnny Unitas - Baltimore Colts
>
> I love this guy....
>
> Does anyone NOT know this after you have spent the better part of this past
> decade latched onto my virtual Usenet ankle .
>
> Yet again you back me up without fail. Same condescending rebuttals
> every day. You just knocked yourself out, Cooney!
>
> I suppose being being the butt of my rebuttals would cause you to collect my
> Drew-isms from my posts and archive them on your hard drive until such time
> as you decide to post as me and hoping that your cut and paste would
> persuade someone that your mini-me post is from me ...the real RavNsfan.
> It's really a shame that your infatuation in wanting to be near me turned
> dark with your desire to now be me. You don't wear the envy well at all .
>
> As far as posting to get your attention.... Why must you flatter
> yourself so?
>
> I don't... you do. You are so blinded by jealousy you can't even perceive
> what everyone else can see as plain as the brown on the tip of your nose.
> Next time don't follow so closely.
>
> > You came the the Steelers newsgroup seeking our attention all those years
> > ago
>
> JHC, that is just so pathetic. You "really do" sound like ole Baltimore
> Bernout, the foot fiddlin' jew pedophile ...oye'
>
> >(and consistantly do so to this day) to such a magnitude that you have
> >earned the
> > privilege of becoming a fixture therein.
>
> You are seriously misinformed there Goob. These being unmoderated Usenet
> forums it is not like there were many other choices beyond a cowardly
> killfile.
>
> Your name will come up in conversation occasionally. The
> belief that every mention of your name in this newsgroup is a plea for
> your attention is narcissistic, among other things.
>
> My name is burned 3D into your pupils. You can't wake-up without seeing me
> these days thanks to my virtual presence in these ngs for over a decade. I'm
> not sorry that you couldn't take that which is why you silently declared to
> yourself a cowards jehad of posing as me and dry-humping my Usenet ankle at
> every opportunity.
>
> No real coincidence that since you began posting of late your veiled
> attempts to draw my attention coincide with similarly recent anonymous
> postings that contain time consuming lyrics written to the scores of once
> popular 50's tunes and further dedicated by an adoring author's mental
> perception of the condition of a very private body part.
>
> > Quite shocking is your belief that I am one of your impersonators.
>
> You'll get over it in enough time to post your next anonymous post I'm sure.
>
> > Oh dude... Don't call me dude!!! This isn't the '80s.
>
> My bad, ... I had no idea you were serious about getting a sex change.
> --
>      ~Drew
>
>              "Talk is cheap, ...lets just play"
>             Johnny Unitas - Baltimore Colts

The only thing latched onto any virtual or otherwise part of you is
your own internet addicted personality. You sudden insistence that I
am one of your imposters reeks of sheer desperation as I successfully
bring you to the end of your trash talking resources. Your running out
of already repetitive material and are squirming in your chair
worrying that your 4GB Pentium 233 with MMX and Windows 95 is going to
max out and crash from your own obsessive desire to annoy me. Rest
assured, Drewsilla, amuse is the more appropriate term. That virtual
chest-thumping as you proudly declared your decade-plus long presence
on UseNet is classic; further evidence that you need intervention for
your Internet addiction. One can only conclude that those who
frequent the newsgroups that you do - just don't make fun of you
enough.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT very political
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/72e25b2a850724b1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 4:51 am
From: MZ


On Aug 31, 9:53 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Aug 30, 7:47 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:09446e4e-9413-475f-8255-6af1a570bc63@d7g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
> > On Aug 30, 1:25 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > >news:786e85be-4ab0-4533-b360-a588b6729bd7@o26g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Aug 29, 4:19 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:f9c9a1e0-b32a-4869-b7ea-d206285afb97@eb1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> > > > On Aug 27, 5:33 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:Eo6dnZHxQtxobMrTnZ2dnUVZ_oqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> > > > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > > > > >news:9bbab0cd-2c87-4e7d-b3fe-f830faf0b117@fe21g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > > On Aug 26, 9:26 am, "JohnC\(TX\)" <johnctxjetss...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > > > > >> I am not a big fan but did you see that Bill Clinton came out & is
> > > > > >> supporting Michelle Bachmann after the Iow State Fair? When I saw
> > > > > >> this
> > > > > >> picture I realized why.
>
> > > > > >>http://tinyurl.com/3ftz87t
>
> > > > > > i think bachman and palin are both national embarrassments. none the
> > > > > > less, the media's photojournalist hatchet job on bachman is as
> > > > > > yellow
> > > > > > as it is execrable. chris christie gets the same treatment... there
> > > > > > are never any flattering photos of christie that come out in the
> > > > > > press. they do their best to portray him as an ogre.
>
> > > > > she plays dirty and lies at the drop of a question. she accepts
> > > > > government
> > > > > farm subsidies while she rails agains money for social programs.
> > > > > she deserves everything she gets, same for Palin, they want to play in
> > > > > the
> > > > > big leagues but don't pick on them and funny you never complained when
> > > > > it
> > > > > was Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi getting it.
> > > > > so fuck off Karl. you're outrage is very selective.- Hide quoted
> > > > > text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > read carefully, nimrod
>
> > > > >"presided over by an *effective* governing/control body of some sort
> > > > >that
> > > > >has
> > > > > national interest in mind and understands the importance of a middle
> > > > > class and domestic industry."
>
> > > > Michael...he NEVER read any history....just block him and don't give the
> > > > buffoon the attention he desires. He obviously does not read what you
> > > > write.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > How about a Nation of laws that really was that and followed and enforced
> > > them?
>
> > it was not unlawful when the US auto industry cut their own throats in
> > the 1970's
>
> > in was not unlawful when harvard MBA types took over well run
> > companies in the 1980's, got rid of the people that knew what they
> > were doing, and subsequently lined thier pockets by means of tearing
> > national business fixtures down to the ground.
>
> > Economic policy that guarantees a trade imbalance is not unlawful
>
> > Allowing companies to uproot in favor of slave labor is not unlawful
>
> > it was no unlawful when clinton repealed glass stegall
>
> > sub prime lending was not unlawful.
>
> > bundling and selling sub prime loans was not unlawful
>
> > a federal reserve bank with an inflationary currency system is not
> > unlawful
>
> > federal reserve officers making money circulating devalued currency is
> > not unlawful
>
> > oh... i have to stop... i need to vomit.
>
> > Most of these are decision made because a system lacked the guidance to
> > prevent it.  What you are going on about was a lack of laws and
> > supervision...we make stupd regulations that are so long and tedious mainly
> > because they were designed to be broken.  Why not have real Laws and
> > guidelines that prevent this crap from happening and take care of the needs
> > of the Nation?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> papa... those things are motivated by self interest even though the
> people behind those things knew they would not work out to the benefit
> of national interest.  forgive me if i am telling you things you
> already know, but if you make a study of the decisions and practices
> inside the US auto industry during the 1970's you'll get sick to your
> stomach leering how a very small hand full of people made out well for
> themselves by running the countries staple industry into the ground. a
> pile of other capitol industries were taken down along with the auto
> industry as well.  then, have a look at the "go go 80's".  a pile of
> well staffed and intelligently run companies (important ones) were
> torn apart by a few jerk-off's with mba's that walked away with lord
> high money by picking the wallets off the dead bodies. those two
> disastrous episodes were a whole box of nails in the national economic
> coffin... the point i'm trying to make is that it is interesting to me
> to consider an economy like the one we had if it was presided over by
> a Duce' type character.  State owned marxist BS is a dead end.
> Private ownership and capitalistic competition is a must...
> unrestrained capitalism built the country... BUT... unrestrained
> capitalism as i described above is sure to be as destructive as it was
> constructive during the developmental stage.  the idea that we need to
> follow laws is not sufficient.  we had plenty of laws and the stuff I
> mentioned above still occurred.  what seems interesting to me is a
> democratic and libertarian country with a capitalistic economy where
> by the economy and only the economy was presided over by an economic
> Duce' of some sort.  if you attempt to bundle and sell sub prime
> lemons, the Duce comes to your office and makes you drink a gallon of
> castor oil.  the "guidance" you speak of will never come from laws.
> especially, once big money and *special* interest gets a hold of the
> political mechanism as has happened here

Michael, have you read Michael Lind's latest column at salon.com?
It's similar to the sort of things you're talking about re: markets
and Mussolini. It's an interesting take -- one which I think he
engages in a lot of distortions to make his point -- but still might
be worth a read.


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 8:54 am
From: Michael


On Aug 31, 8:23 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:efd51887-7d1b-43a2-ba34-d54d14a7998a@c33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 30, 7:47 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:09446e4e-9413-475f-8255-6af1a570bc63@d7g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
> > On Aug 30, 1:25 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > >news:786e85be-4ab0-4533-b360-a588b6729bd7@o26g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Aug 29, 4:19 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:f9c9a1e0-b32a-4869-b7ea-d206285afb97@eb1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> > > > On Aug 27, 5:33 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:Eo6dnZHxQtxobMrTnZ2dnUVZ_oqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> > > > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > > > > >news:9bbab0cd-2c87-4e7d-b3fe-f830faf0b117@fe21g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > > On Aug 26, 9:26 am, "JohnC\(TX\)" <johnctxjetss...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > > > > >> I am not a big fan but did you see that Bill Clinton came out &
> > > > > >> is
> > > > > >> supporting Michelle Bachmann after the Iow State Fair? When I saw
> > > > > >> this
> > > > > >> picture I realized why.
>
> > > > > >>http://tinyurl.com/3ftz87t
>
> > > > > > i think bachman and palin are both national embarrassments. none
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > less, the media's photojournalist hatchet job on bachman is as
> > > > > > yellow
> > > > > > as it is execrable. chris christie gets the same treatment...
> > > > > > there
> > > > > > are never any flattering photos of christie that come out in the
> > > > > > press. they do their best to portray him as an ogre.
>
> > > > > she plays dirty and lies at the drop of a question. she accepts
> > > > > government
> > > > > farm subsidies while she rails agains money for social programs.
> > > > > she deserves everything she gets, same for Palin, they want to play
> > > > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > big leagues but don't pick on them and funny you never complained
> > > > > when
> > > > > it
> > > > > was Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi getting it.
> > > > > so fuck off Karl. you're outrage is very selective.- Hide quoted
> > > > > text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > read carefully, nimrod
>
> > > > >"presided over by an *effective* governing/control body of some sort
> > > > >that
> > > > >has
> > > > > national interest in mind and understands the importance of a middle
> > > > > class and domestic industry."
>
> > > > Michael...he NEVER read any history....just block him and don't give
> > > > the
> > > > buffoon the attention he desires. He obviously does not read what you
> > > > write.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > How about a Nation of laws that really was that and followed and
> > > enforced
> > > them?
>
> > it was not unlawful when the US auto industry cut their own throats in
> > the 1970's
>
> > in was not unlawful when harvard MBA types took over well run
> > companies in the 1980's, got rid of the people that knew what they
> > were doing, and subsequently lined thier pockets by means of tearing
> > national business fixtures down to the ground.
>
> > Economic policy that guarantees a trade imbalance is not unlawful
>
> > Allowing companies to uproot in favor of slave labor is not unlawful
>
> > it was no unlawful when clinton repealed glass stegall
>
> > sub prime lending was not unlawful.
>
> > bundling and selling sub prime loans was not unlawful
>
> > a federal reserve bank with an inflationary currency system is not
> > unlawful
>
> > federal reserve officers making money circulating devalued currency is
> > not unlawful
>
> > oh... i have to stop... i need to vomit.
>
> > Most of these are decision made because a system lacked the guidance to
> > prevent it. What you are going on about was a lack of laws and
> > supervision...we make stupd regulations that are so long and tedious
> > mainly
> > because they were designed to be broken. Why not have real Laws and
> > guidelines that prevent this crap from happening and take care of the
> > needs
> > of the Nation?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> papa... those things are motivated by self interest even though the
> people behind those things knew they would not work out to the benefit
> of national interest.  forgive me if i am telling you things you
> already know, but if you make a study of the decisions and practices
> inside the US auto industry during the 1970's you'll get sick to your
> stomach leering how a very small hand full of people made out well for
> themselves by running the countries staple industry into the ground. a
> pile of other capitol industries were taken down along with the auto
> industry as well.  then, have a look at the "go go 80's".  a pile of
> well staffed and intelligently run companies (important ones) were
> torn apart by a few jerk-off's with mba's that walked away with lord
> high money by picking the wallets off the dead bodies. those two
> disastrous episodes were a whole box of nails in the national economic
> coffin... the point i'm trying to make is that it is interesting to me
> to consider an economy like the one we had if it was presided over by
> a Duce' type character.  State owned marxist BS is a dead end.
> Private ownership and capitalistic competition is a must...
> unrestrained capitalism built the country... BUT... unrestrained
> capitalism as i described above is sure to be as destructive as it was
> constructive during the developmental stage.  the idea that we need to
> follow laws is not sufficient.  we had plenty of laws and the stuff I
> mentioned above still occurred.  what seems interesting to me is a
> democratic and libertarian country with a capitalistic economy where
> by the economy and only the economy was presided over by an economic
> Duce' of some sort.  if you attempt to bundle and sell sub prime
> lemons, the Duce comes to your office and makes you drink a gallon of
> castor oil.  the "guidance" you speak of will never come from laws.
> especially, once big money and *special* interest gets a hold of the
> political mechanism as has happened here
>
> I hear you....we are just doomed then.  Maybe we need to start with election
> reform and election finance reform...or else it is just an olligarchy of
> some sort and it's all over.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

election reform would be an excellent place to start... of course, the
puppetmasters would get in the way. i already know who will win the
next prez election. a lap dog. name or party not important


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 9:35 am
From: Michael


On Sep 1, 11:54 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Aug 31, 8:23 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:efd51887-7d1b-43a2-ba34-d54d14a7998a@c33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> > On Aug 30, 7:47 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > >news:09446e4e-9413-475f-8255-6af1a570bc63@d7g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Aug 30, 1:25 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:786e85be-4ab0-4533-b360-a588b6729bd7@o26g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
> > > > On Aug 29, 4:19 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:f9c9a1e0-b32a-4869-b7ea-d206285afb97@eb1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > On Aug 27, 5:33 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > > >news:Eo6dnZHxQtxobMrTnZ2dnUVZ_oqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> > > > > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > >news:9bbab0cd-2c87-4e7d-b3fe-f830faf0b117@fe21g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > > > On Aug 26, 9:26 am, "JohnC\(TX\)" <johnctxjetss...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > > > > > >> I am not a big fan but did you see that Bill Clinton came out &
> > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > >> supporting Michelle Bachmann after the Iow State Fair? When I saw
> > > > > > >> this
> > > > > > >> picture I realized why.
>
> > > > > > >>http://tinyurl.com/3ftz87t
>
> > > > > > > i think bachman and palin are both national embarrassments. none
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > less, the media's photojournalist hatchet job on bachman is as
> > > > > > > yellow
> > > > > > > as it is execrable. chris christie gets the same treatment...
> > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > are never any flattering photos of christie that come out in the
> > > > > > > press. they do their best to portray him as an ogre.
>
> > > > > > she plays dirty and lies at the drop of a question. she accepts
> > > > > > government
> > > > > > farm subsidies while she rails agains money for social programs.
> > > > > > she deserves everything she gets, same for Palin, they want to play
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > big leagues but don't pick on them and funny you never complained
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > was Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi getting it.
> > > > > > so fuck off Karl. you're outrage is very selective.- Hide quoted
> > > > > > text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > read carefully, nimrod
>
> > > > > >"presided over by an *effective* governing/control body of some sort
> > > > > >that
> > > > > >has
> > > > > > national interest in mind and understands the importance of a middle
> > > > > > class and domestic industry."
>
> > > > > Michael...he NEVER read any history....just block him and don't give
> > > > > the
> > > > > buffoon the attention he desires. He obviously does not read what you
> > > > > write.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > How about a Nation of laws that really was that and followed and
> > > > enforced
> > > > them?
>
> > > it was not unlawful when the US auto industry cut their own throats in
> > > the 1970's
>
> > > in was not unlawful when harvard MBA types took over well run
> > > companies in the 1980's, got rid of the people that knew what they
> > > were doing, and subsequently lined thier pockets by means of tearing
> > > national business fixtures down to the ground.
>
> > > Economic policy that guarantees a trade imbalance is not unlawful
>
> > > Allowing companies to uproot in favor of slave labor is not unlawful
>
> > > it was no unlawful when clinton repealed glass stegall
>
> > > sub prime lending was not unlawful.
>
> > > bundling and selling sub prime loans was not unlawful
>
> > > a federal reserve bank with an inflationary currency system is not
> > > unlawful
>
> > > federal reserve officers making money circulating devalued currency is
> > > not unlawful
>
> > > oh... i have to stop... i need to vomit.
>
> > > Most of these are decision made because a system lacked the guidance to
> > > prevent it. What you are going on about was a lack of laws and
> > > supervision...we make stupd regulations that are so long and tedious
> > > mainly
> > > because they were designed to be broken. Why not have real Laws and
> > > guidelines that prevent this crap from happening and take care of the
> > > needs
> > > of the Nation?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > papa... those things are motivated by self interest even though the
> > people behind those things knew they would not work out to the benefit
> > of national interest.  forgive me if i am telling you things you
> > already know, but if you make a study of the decisions and practices
> > inside the US auto industry during the 1970's you'll get sick to your
> > stomach leering how a very small hand full of people made out well for
> > themselves by running the countries staple industry into the ground. a
> > pile of other capitol industries were taken down along with the auto
> > industry as well.  then, have a look at the "go go 80's".  a pile of
> > well staffed and intelligently run companies (important ones) were
> > torn apart by a few jerk-off's with mba's that walked away with lord
> > high money by picking the wallets off the dead bodies. those two
> > disastrous episodes were a whole box of nails in the national economic
> > coffin... the point i'm trying to make is that it is interesting to me
> > to consider an economy like the one we had if it was presided over by
> > a Duce' type character.  State owned marxist BS is a dead end.
> > Private ownership and capitalistic competition is a must...
> > unrestrained capitalism built the country... BUT... unrestrained
> > capitalism as i described above is sure to be as destructive as it was
> > constructive during the developmental stage.  the idea that we need to
> > follow laws is not sufficient.  we had plenty of laws and the stuff I
> > mentioned above still occurred.  what seems interesting to me is a
> > democratic and libertarian country with a capitalistic economy where
> > by the economy and only the economy was presided over by an economic
> > Duce' of some sort.  if you attempt to bundle and sell sub prime
> > lemons, the Duce comes to your office and makes you drink a gallon of
> > castor oil.  the "guidance" you speak of will never come from laws.
> > especially, once big money and *special* interest gets a hold of the
> > political mechanism as has happened here
>
> > I hear you....we are just doomed then.  Maybe we need to start with election
> > reform and election finance reform...or else it is just an olligarchy of
> > some sort and it's all over.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> election reform would be an excellent place to start... of course, the
> puppetmasters would get in the way.  i already know who will win the
> next prez election.  a lap dog.  name or party not important- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

This one below ???

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/08/30/lind_libertariansim

IMHO, the model of a "free" socially liberal republic with a privately
owned, yet "fascist" economic/market system is an interesting one.
being a huge fan of social liberties and one who despises tyrannical
government control, i have never been the lest bit a proponent of
anything that resembles a totalitarian state. Still... I have always
been intrigued by the economic component of duce's fascist state.
going back to what i was saying before... unrestrained capitalism was
ideal during the developmental stage of america. it pretty much built
the country. now we have a totally different social and economic
dynamic. most evety time a president was "encouraged" to lift a
restriction, (glass stegall for instance)it turned out to be a
disaster. recently, we've seen offenders rewarded with governmen money
(bail-outs). keeping the lid off the cookie jar now ensures that we'll
have a concentrated accumulation and imbalance of wealth that is every
bit as parasitic as the fruits of marxism. i am not talking about
people that make a few million a year. i am talking about a lord high
concentration of wealth. The ability to infringe on free enterprise
and liberty. What is the practical difference between the muzzle of
Mao's gun and the ability to buy off a government ???


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 10:18 am
From: MZ


On Sep 1, 12:35 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Sep 1, 11:54 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 31, 8:23 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > >news:efd51887-7d1b-43a2-ba34-d54d14a7998a@c33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Aug 30, 7:47 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:09446e4e-9413-475f-8255-6af1a570bc63@d7g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
> > > > On Aug 30, 1:25 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:786e85be-4ab0-4533-b360-a588b6729bd7@o26g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > On Aug 29, 4:19 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > > >news:f9c9a1e0-b32a-4869-b7ea-d206285afb97@eb1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > > On Aug 27, 5:33 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > > > >news:Eo6dnZHxQtxobMrTnZ2dnUVZ_oqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> > > > > > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > > >news:9bbab0cd-2c87-4e7d-b3fe-f830faf0b117@fe21g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > > > > On Aug 26, 9:26 am, "JohnC\(TX\)" <johnctxjetss...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > > > > > > >> I am not a big fan but did you see that Bill Clinton came out &
> > > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > > >> supporting Michelle Bachmann after the Iow State Fair? When I saw
> > > > > > > >> this
> > > > > > > >> picture I realized why.
>
> > > > > > > >>http://tinyurl.com/3ftz87t
>
> > > > > > > > i think bachman and palin are both national embarrassments. none
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > less, the media's photojournalist hatchet job on bachman is as
> > > > > > > > yellow
> > > > > > > > as it is execrable. chris christie gets the same treatment...
> > > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > are never any flattering photos of christie that come out in the
> > > > > > > > press. they do their best to portray him as an ogre.
>
> > > > > > > she plays dirty and lies at the drop of a question. she accepts
> > > > > > > government
> > > > > > > farm subsidies while she rails agains money for social programs.
> > > > > > > she deserves everything she gets, same for Palin, they want to play
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > big leagues but don't pick on them and funny you never complained
> > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > was Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi getting it.
> > > > > > > so fuck off Karl. you're outrage is very selective.- Hide quoted
> > > > > > > text -
>
> > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > > read carefully, nimrod
>
> > > > > > >"presided over by an *effective* governing/control body of some sort
> > > > > > >that
> > > > > > >has
> > > > > > > national interest in mind and understands the importance of a middle
> > > > > > > class and domestic industry."
>
> > > > > > Michael...he NEVER read any history....just block him and don't give
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > buffoon the attention he desires. He obviously does not read what you
> > > > > > write.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > How about a Nation of laws that really was that and followed and
> > > > > enforced
> > > > > them?
>
> > > > it was not unlawful when the US auto industry cut their own throats in
> > > > the 1970's
>
> > > > in was not unlawful when harvard MBA types took over well run
> > > > companies in the 1980's, got rid of the people that knew what they
> > > > were doing, and subsequently lined thier pockets by means of tearing
> > > > national business fixtures down to the ground.
>
> > > > Economic policy that guarantees a trade imbalance is not unlawful
>
> > > > Allowing companies to uproot in favor of slave labor is not unlawful
>
> > > > it was no unlawful when clinton repealed glass stegall
>
> > > > sub prime lending was not unlawful.
>
> > > > bundling and selling sub prime loans was not unlawful
>
> > > > a federal reserve bank with an inflationary currency system is not
> > > > unlawful
>
> > > > federal reserve officers making money circulating devalued currency is
> > > > not unlawful
>
> > > > oh... i have to stop... i need to vomit.
>
> > > > Most of these are decision made because a system lacked the guidance to
> > > > prevent it. What you are going on about was a lack of laws and
> > > > supervision...we make stupd regulations that are so long and tedious
> > > > mainly
> > > > because they were designed to be broken. Why not have real Laws and
> > > > guidelines that prevent this crap from happening and take care of the
> > > > needs
> > > > of the Nation?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > papa... those things are motivated by self interest even though the
> > > people behind those things knew they would not work out to the benefit
> > > of national interest.  forgive me if i am telling you things you
> > > already know, but if you make a study of the decisions and practices
> > > inside the US auto industry during the 1970's you'll get sick to your
> > > stomach leering how a very small hand full of people made out well for
> > > themselves by running the countries staple industry into the ground. a
> > > pile of other capitol industries were taken down along with the auto
> > > industry as well.  then, have a look at the "go go 80's".  a pile of
> > > well staffed and intelligently run companies (important ones) were
> > > torn apart by a few jerk-off's with mba's that walked away with lord
> > > high money by picking the wallets off the dead bodies. those two
> > > disastrous episodes were a whole box of nails in the national economic
> > > coffin... the point i'm trying to make is that it is interesting to me
> > > to consider an economy like the one we had if it was presided over by
> > > a Duce' type character.  State owned marxist BS is a dead end.
> > > Private ownership and capitalistic competition is a must...
> > > unrestrained capitalism built the country... BUT... unrestrained
> > > capitalism as i described above is sure to be as destructive as it was
> > > constructive during the developmental stage.  the idea that we need to
> > > follow laws is not sufficient.  we had plenty of laws and the stuff I
> > > mentioned above still occurred.  what seems interesting to me is a
> > > democratic and libertarian country with a capitalistic economy where
> > > by the economy and only the economy was presided over by an economic
> > > Duce' of some sort.  if you attempt to bundle and sell sub prime
> > > lemons, the Duce comes to your office and makes you drink a gallon of
> > > castor oil.  the "guidance" you speak of will never come from laws.
> > > especially, once big money and *special* interest gets a hold of the
> > > political mechanism as has happened here
>
> > > I hear you....we are just doomed then.  Maybe we need to start with election
> > > reform and election finance reform...or else it is just an olligarchy of
> > > some sort and it's all over.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > election reform would be an excellent place to start... of course, the
> > puppetmasters would get in the way.  i already know who will win the
> > next prez election.  a lap dog.  name or party not important- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> This one below ???
>
> http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/08/30/lind_libertari...
>
> IMHO, the model of a "free" socially liberal republic with a privately
> owned, yet "fascist" economic/market system is an interesting one.
> being a huge fan of social liberties and one who despises tyrannical
> government control, i have never been the lest bit a proponent of
> anything that resembles a totalitarian state. Still... I have always
> been intrigued by the economic component of duce's fascist state.
> going back to what i was saying before... unrestrained capitalism was
> ideal during the developmental stage of america. it pretty much built
> the country. now we have a totally different social and economic
> dynamic. most evety time a president was "encouraged" to lift a
> restriction, (glass stegall for instance)it turned out to be a
> disaster. recently, we've seen offenders rewarded with governmen money
> (bail-outs). keeping the lid off the cookie jar now ensures that we'll
> have a concentrated accumulation and imbalance of wealth that is every
> bit as parasitic as the fruits of marxism. i am not talking about
> people that make a few million a year.  i am talking about a lord high
> concentration of wealth. The ability to infringe on free enterprise
> and liberty.  What is the practical difference between the muzzle of
> Mao's gun and the ability to buy off a government ???

Yeah, that's why I thought that would be an interesting article for
you. But like I said, his facts are not accurate (e.g. he attributes
stuff to Von Mises that was just inaccurate...). Still, the article
shows that the idea that your brand of "libertarianism" could adopt a
"fascist" economic system is evidently shared by other people.

[Just not the ones he's citing. :) ]


== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 10:52 am
From: Michael


On Sep 1, 1:18 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
> On Sep 1, 12:35 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 1, 11:54 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 31, 8:23 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:efd51887-7d1b-43a2-ba34-d54d14a7998a@c33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> > > > On Aug 30, 7:47 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:09446e4e-9413-475f-8255-6af1a570bc63@d7g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > On Aug 30, 1:25 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > > >news:786e85be-4ab0-4533-b360-a588b6729bd7@o26g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > > On Aug 29, 4:19 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > > > >news:f9c9a1e0-b32a-4869-b7ea-d206285afb97@eb1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > > > On Aug 27, 5:33 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > > > > >news:Eo6dnZHxQtxobMrTnZ2dnUVZ_oqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> > > > > > > > > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > >news:9bbab0cd-2c87-4e7d-b3fe-f830faf0b117@fe21g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > > > > > On Aug 26, 9:26 am, "JohnC\(TX\)" <johnctxjetss...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > > > > > > > >> I am not a big fan but did you see that Bill Clinton came out &
> > > > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > > > >> supporting Michelle Bachmann after the Iow State Fair? When I saw
> > > > > > > > >> this
> > > > > > > > >> picture I realized why.
>
> > > > > > > > >>http://tinyurl.com/3ftz87t
>
> > > > > > > > > i think bachman and palin are both national embarrassments. none
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > less, the media's photojournalist hatchet job on bachman is as
> > > > > > > > > yellow
> > > > > > > > > as it is execrable. chris christie gets the same treatment...
> > > > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > > are never any flattering photos of christie that come out in the
> > > > > > > > > press. they do their best to portray him as an ogre.
>
> > > > > > > > she plays dirty and lies at the drop of a question. she accepts
> > > > > > > > government
> > > > > > > > farm subsidies while she rails agains money for social programs.
> > > > > > > > she deserves everything she gets, same for Palin, they want to play
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > big leagues but don't pick on them and funny you never complained
> > > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > was Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi getting it.
> > > > > > > > so fuck off Karl. you're outrage is very selective.- Hide quoted
> > > > > > > > text -
>
> > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > > > read carefully, nimrod
>
> > > > > > > >"presided over by an *effective* governing/control body of some sort
> > > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > >has
> > > > > > > > national interest in mind and understands the importance of a middle
> > > > > > > > class and domestic industry."
>
> > > > > > > Michael...he NEVER read any history....just block him and don't give
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > buffoon the attention he desires. He obviously does not read what you
> > > > > > > write.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > > How about a Nation of laws that really was that and followed and
> > > > > > enforced
> > > > > > them?
>
> > > > > it was not unlawful when the US auto industry cut their own throats in
> > > > > the 1970's
>
> > > > > in was not unlawful when harvard MBA types took over well run
> > > > > companies in the 1980's, got rid of the people that knew what they
> > > > > were doing, and subsequently lined thier pockets by means of tearing
> > > > > national business fixtures down to the ground.
>
> > > > > Economic policy that guarantees a trade imbalance is not unlawful
>
> > > > > Allowing companies to uproot in favor of slave labor is not unlawful
>
> > > > > it was no unlawful when clinton repealed glass stegall
>
> > > > > sub prime lending was not unlawful.
>
> > > > > bundling and selling sub prime loans was not unlawful
>
> > > > > a federal reserve bank with an inflationary currency system is not
> > > > > unlawful
>
> > > > > federal reserve officers making money circulating devalued currency is
> > > > > not unlawful
>
> > > > > oh... i have to stop... i need to vomit.
>
> > > > > Most of these are decision made because a system lacked the guidance to
> > > > > prevent it. What you are going on about was a lack of laws and
> > > > > supervision...we make stupd regulations that are so long and tedious
> > > > > mainly
> > > > > because they were designed to be broken. Why not have real Laws and
> > > > > guidelines that prevent this crap from happening and take care of the
> > > > > needs
> > > > > of the Nation?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > papa... those things are motivated by self interest even though the
> > > > people behind those things knew they would not work out to the benefit
> > > > of national interest.  forgive me if i am telling you things you
> > > > already know, but if you make a study of the decisions and practices
> > > > inside the US auto industry during the 1970's you'll get sick to your
> > > > stomach leering how a very small hand full of people made out well for
> > > > themselves by running the countries staple industry into the ground. a
> > > > pile of other capitol industries were taken down along with the auto
> > > > industry as well.  then, have a look at the "go go 80's".  a pile of
> > > > well staffed and intelligently run companies (important ones) were
> > > > torn apart by a few jerk-off's with mba's that walked away with lord
> > > > high money by picking the wallets off the dead bodies. those two
> > > > disastrous episodes were a whole box of nails in the national economic
> > > > coffin... the point i'm trying to make is that it is interesting to me
> > > > to consider an economy like the one we had if it was presided over by
> > > > a Duce' type character.  State owned marxist BS is a dead end.
> > > > Private ownership and capitalistic competition is a must...
> > > > unrestrained capitalism built the country... BUT... unrestrained
> > > > capitalism as i described above is sure to be as destructive as it was
> > > > constructive during the developmental stage.  the idea that we need to
> > > > follow laws is not sufficient.  we had plenty of laws and the stuff I
> > > > mentioned above still occurred.  what seems interesting to me is a
> > > > democratic and libertarian country with a capitalistic economy where
> > > > by the economy and only the economy was presided over by an economic
> > > > Duce' of some sort.  if you attempt to bundle and sell sub prime
> > > > lemons, the Duce comes to your office and makes you drink a gallon of
> > > > castor oil.  the "guidance" you speak of will never come from laws.
> > > > especially, once big money and *special* interest gets a hold of the
> > > > political mechanism as has happened here
>
> > > > I hear you....we are just doomed then.  Maybe we need to start with election
> > > > reform and election finance reform...or else it is just an olligarchy of
> > > > some sort and it's all over.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > election reform would be an excellent place to start... of course, the
> > > puppetmasters would get in the way.  i already know who will win the
> > > next prez election.  a lap dog.  name or party not important- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > This one below ???
>
> >http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/08/30/lind_libertari...
>
> > IMHO, the model of a "free" socially liberal republic with a privately
> > owned, yet "fascist" economic/market system is an interesting one.
> > being a huge fan of social liberties and one who despises tyrannical
> > government control, i have never been the lest bit a proponent of
> > anything that resembles a totalitarian state. Still... I have always
> > been intrigued by the economic component of duce's fascist state.
> > going back to what i was saying before... unrestrained capitalism was
> > ideal during the developmental stage of america. it pretty much built
> > the country. now we have a totally different social and economic
> > dynamic. most evety time a president was "encouraged" to lift a
> > restriction, (glass stegall for instance)it turned out to be a
> > disaster. recently, we've seen offenders rewarded with governmen money
> > (bail-outs). keeping the lid off the cookie jar now ensures that we'll
> > have a concentrated accumulation and imbalance of wealth that is every
> > bit as parasitic as the fruits of marxism. i am not talking about
> > people that make a few million a year.  i am talking about a lord high
> > concentration of wealth. The ability to infringe on free enterprise
> > and liberty.  What is the practical difference between the muzzle of
> > Mao's gun and the ability to buy off a government ???
>
> Yeah, that's why I thought that would be an interesting article for
> you.  But like I said, his facts are not accurate (e.g. he attributes
> stuff to Von Mises that was just inaccurate...).  Still, the article
> shows that the idea that your brand of "libertarianism" could adopt a
> "fascist" economic system is evidently shared by other people.
>
> [Just not the ones he's citing.  :)  ]- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

he blew it with Von Mises, but his goof did not distract from the
larger point... nice to see others thinking. imho, a good start to
getting things on the right track would be moving away from the
federal reserve system and transitioning to commodity backed currency.
then we decide on how much castor oil to give wall street and run away
corporations


== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 2:46 pm
From: Johnny Morongo


On 9/1/2011 10:52 AM, Michael wrote:
> On Sep 1, 1:18 pm, MZ<for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>> On Sep 1, 12:35 pm, Michael<mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 1, 11:54 am, Michael<mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> On Aug 31, 8:23 pm, "Papa Carl"<papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>> "Michael"<mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>>>>> news:efd51887-7d1b-43a2-ba34-d54d14a7998a@c33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Aug 30, 7:47 pm, "Papa Carl"<papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> "Michael"<mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>>>>>> news:09446e4e-9413-475f-8255-6af1a570bc63@d7g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>> On Aug 30, 1:25 pm, "Papa Carl"<papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> "Michael"<mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>>>>>>> news:786e85be-4ab0-4533-b360-a588b6729bd7@o26g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>> On Aug 29, 4:19 pm, "Papa Carl"<papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> "Michael"<mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>>>>>>>> news:f9c9a1e0-b32a-4869-b7ea-d206285afb97@eb1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 5:33 pm, "Ray O'Hara"<raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>> "Papa Carl"<papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>>>>>>>>> news:Eo6dnZHxQtxobMrTnZ2dnUVZ_oqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Michael"<mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:9bbab0cd-2c87-4e7d-b3fe-f830faf0b117@fe21g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 26, 9:26 am, "JohnC\(TX\)"<johnctxjetss...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> X-No-Archive: Yes
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am not a big fan but did you see that Bill Clinton came out&
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> supporting Michelle Bachmann after the Iow State Fair? When I saw
>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> picture I realized why.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/3ftz87t
>>
>>>>>>>>>> i think bachman and palin are both national embarrassments. none
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> less, the media's photojournalist hatchet job on bachman is as
>>>>>>>>>> yellow
>>>>>>>>>> as it is execrable. chris christie gets the same treatment...
>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>> are never any flattering photos of christie that come out in the
>>>>>>>>>> press. they do their best to portray him as an ogre.
>>
>>>>>>>>> she plays dirty and lies at the drop of a question. she accepts
>>>>>>>>> government
>>>>>>>>> farm subsidies while she rails agains money for social programs.
>>>>>>>>> she deserves everything she gets, same for Palin, they want to play
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> big leagues but don't pick on them and funny you never complained
>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> was Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi getting it.
>>>>>>>>> so fuck off Karl. you're outrage is very selective.- Hide quoted
>>>>>>>>> text -
>>
>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>>>>>>> read carefully, nimrod
>>
>>>>>>>>> "presided over by an *effective* governing/control body of some sort
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> national interest in mind and understands the importance of a middle
>>>>>>>>> class and domestic industry."
>>
>>>>>>>> Michael...he NEVER read any history....just block him and don't give
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> buffoon the attention he desires. He obviously does not read what you
>>>>>>>> write.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>>>>>> How about a Nation of laws that really was that and followed and
>>>>>>> enforced
>>>>>>> them?
>>
>>>>>> it was not unlawful when the US auto industry cut their own throats in
>>>>>> the 1970's
>>
>>>>>> in was not unlawful when harvard MBA types took over well run
>>>>>> companies in the 1980's, got rid of the people that knew what they
>>>>>> were doing, and subsequently lined thier pockets by means of tearing
>>>>>> national business fixtures down to the ground.
>>
>>>>>> Economic policy that guarantees a trade imbalance is not unlawful
>>
>>>>>> Allowing companies to uproot in favor of slave labor is not unlawful
>>
>>>>>> it was no unlawful when clinton repealed glass stegall
>>
>>>>>> sub prime lending was not unlawful.
>>
>>>>>> bundling and selling sub prime loans was not unlawful
>>
>>>>>> a federal reserve bank with an inflationary currency system is not
>>>>>> unlawful
>>
>>>>>> federal reserve officers making money circulating devalued currency is
>>>>>> not unlawful
>>
>>>>>> oh... i have to stop... i need to vomit.
>>
>>>>>> Most of these are decision made because a system lacked the guidance to
>>>>>> prevent it. What you are going on about was a lack of laws and
>>>>>> supervision...we make stupd regulations that are so long and tedious
>>>>>> mainly
>>>>>> because they were designed to be broken. Why not have real Laws and
>>>>>> guidelines that prevent this crap from happening and take care of the
>>>>>> needs
>>>>>> of the Nation?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>>>> papa... those things are motivated by self interest even though the
>>>>> people behind those things knew they would not work out to the benefit
>>>>> of national interest. forgive me if i am telling you things you
>>>>> already know, but if you make a study of the decisions and practices
>>>>> inside the US auto industry during the 1970's you'll get sick to your
>>>>> stomach leering how a very small hand full of people made out well for
>>>>> themselves by running the countries staple industry into the ground. a
>>>>> pile of other capitol industries were taken down along with the auto
>>>>> industry as well. then, have a look at the "go go 80's". a pile of
>>>>> well staffed and intelligently run companies (important ones) were
>>>>> torn apart by a few jerk-off's with mba's that walked away with lord
>>>>> high money by picking the wallets off the dead bodies. those two
>>>>> disastrous episodes were a whole box of nails in the national economic
>>>>> coffin... the point i'm trying to make is that it is interesting to me
>>>>> to consider an economy like the one we had if it was presided over by
>>>>> a Duce' type character. State owned marxist BS is a dead end.
>>>>> Private ownership and capitalistic competition is a must...
>>>>> unrestrained capitalism built the country... BUT... unrestrained
>>>>> capitalism as i described above is sure to be as destructive as it was
>>>>> constructive during the developmental stage. the idea that we need to
>>>>> follow laws is not sufficient. we had plenty of laws and the stuff I
>>>>> mentioned above still occurred. what seems interesting to me is a
>>>>> democratic and libertarian country with a capitalistic economy where
>>>>> by the economy and only the economy was presided over by an economic
>>>>> Duce' of some sort. if you attempt to bundle and sell sub prime
>>>>> lemons, the Duce comes to your office and makes you drink a gallon of
>>>>> castor oil. the "guidance" you speak of will never come from laws.
>>>>> especially, once big money and *special* interest gets a hold of the
>>>>> political mechanism as has happened here
>>
>>>>> I hear you....we are just doomed then. Maybe we need to start with election
>>>>> reform and election finance reform...or else it is just an olligarchy of
>>>>> some sort and it's all over.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>>> election reform would be an excellent place to start... of course, the
>>>> puppetmasters would get in the way. i already know who will win the
>>>> next prez election. a lap dog. name or party not important- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>> This one below ???
>>
>>> http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/08/30/lind_libertari...
>>
>>> IMHO, the model of a "free" socially liberal republic with a privately
>>> owned, yet "fascist" economic/market system is an interesting one.
>>> being a huge fan of social liberties and one who despises tyrannical
>>> government control, i have never been the lest bit a proponent of
>>> anything that resembles a totalitarian state. Still... I have always
>>> been intrigued by the economic component of duce's fascist state.
>>> going back to what i was saying before... unrestrained capitalism was
>>> ideal during the developmental stage of america. it pretty much built
>>> the country. now we have a totally different social and economic
>>> dynamic. most evety time a president was "encouraged" to lift a
>>> restriction, (glass stegall for instance)it turned out to be a
>>> disaster. recently, we've seen offenders rewarded with governmen money
>>> (bail-outs). keeping the lid off the cookie jar now ensures that we'll
>>> have a concentrated accumulation and imbalance of wealth that is every
>>> bit as parasitic as the fruits of marxism. i am not talking about
>>> people that make a few million a year. i am talking about a lord high
>>> concentration of wealth. The ability to infringe on free enterprise
>>> and liberty. What is the practical difference between the muzzle of
>>> Mao's gun and the ability to buy off a government ???
>>
>> Yeah, that's why I thought that would be an interesting article for
>> you. But like I said, his facts are not accurate (e.g. he attributes
>> stuff to Von Mises that was just inaccurate...). Still, the article
>> shows that the idea that your brand of "libertarianism" could adopt a
>> "fascist" economic system is evidently shared by other people.
>>
>> [Just not the ones he's citing. :) ]- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> he blew it with Von Mises, but his goof did not distract from the
> larger point... nice to see others thinking. imho, a good start to
> getting things on the right track would be moving away from the
> federal reserve system and transitioning to commodity backed currency.
> then we decide on how much castor oil to give wall street and run away
> corporations

A bit like locking the barn door after the horse is stolen, no?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Conner hurt& Payne broke his wrist
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/a5b1279c62ea9d80?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 7:20 am
From: "John C (tx)"


X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> They are talking about Richardson if Conner can't go but how many
> roster spots can be tied up with hurt players?
>
> I feel bad for Payne as he looked like a heck of a special teams
> player.  I imagine with a broken wrist he gets IR'd. we should have
> kept Cotchery.
>
>      Always thought they overvalued Connor. With this running back tandem,
> can we afford to keep a block only FB?
>
> -- JK Sinrodwww.MyConeyIslandMemories.com

It was why I posted about the kid from the Texans Ogbannaya. He isn't
exactly a FB at 220 but he is great receiver --he never played TB
until his sophomore year of college --& can block. He ca also get the
tough yards.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fly, Jets, Fly a new poem by JetsLife
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/3ab971451f0a960f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 7:45 am
From: Still Roper


On Aug 31, 2:31 pm, JetsLife <JetsL...@aol.com> wrote:
> There has been, nor ever will be
>
> anything
>
> more glorious
>
> than the New York Jets.
>
> Women come and go
> Some stay
> Outlasting it all
> Forever faithful
> The lads in green.
>
> Years ago my parents
> flew above the clouds
> with Broadway Joe & the team
> Introduced to Joe my starstruck Mom froze
> My Dad had to say hello for both of them.
>
> The Jets flew above the clouds in those days
> Soared like the upstart kings they were.
>
> Fly Jets fly!
>
> Fly Sanchez fly!
>
> Destroy defense destroy!
>
> Your fans have been waiting
> hoping
> supporting
> loyal
> for 43 long years.
>
> Our brash new captain
> A leader of men
> the son of a football legend
> the son of a former SB III Jets assistant coach
> came back home where he belongs.
>
> Came back home
> to the original brash and bold
> trailblazed by Joe.
>
> Lead us, Rex, lead!
>
> Jets Nation will follow!
>
> Soar above the clouds
> once more
> New York Jets.

Been a Jets fan since I was a chocolate bar in my dad's
pocket...but...that was fukn hilarious and terrible at the same time.


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 12:25 pm
From: Michael


On Aug 31, 2:31 pm, JetsLife <JetsL...@aol.com> wrote:
> There has been, nor ever will be
>
> anything
>
> more glorious
>
> than the New York Jets.
>
> Women come and go
> Some stay
> Outlasting it all
> Forever faithful
> The lads in green.
>
> Years ago my parents
> flew above the clouds
> with Broadway Joe & the team
> Introduced to Joe my starstruck Mom froze
> My Dad had to say hello for both of them.
>
> The Jets flew above the clouds in those days
> Soared like the upstart kings they were.
>
> Fly Jets fly!
>
> Fly Sanchez fly!
>
> Destroy defense destroy!
>
> Your fans have been waiting
> hoping
> supporting
> loyal
> for 43 long years.
>
> Our brash new captain
> A leader of men
> the son of a football legend
> the son of a former SB III Jets assistant coach
> came back home where he belongs.
>
> Came back home
> to the original brash and bold
> trailblazed by Joe.
>
> Lead us, Rex, lead!
>
> Jets Nation will follow!
>
> Soar above the clouds
> once more
> New York Jets.

i think lou holtz would adopt that in favor of his jets fight song :-)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gholston blames Rex
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/b9915ce5a7162047?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 8:10 am
From: Percy Flage


On 23/08/2011 23:17, Michael wrote:
> http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=2&cid=1098513&nid=5794461&fhn=1
>
> Interesting. So, now he'll live up to his potential under Lovie ???

I was all for defending this guy to let him have a fair chance. 3
seasons is a *pretty* fair chance I reckon.

In that time he's recorded below a tackle per game and zero sacks. I
seem to recall he had a killing line on Brady one game, but froze like a
bunny in the headlights and Brady completed.

Let's see how long he lasts with the Bea...

--
Percy Flage
"Life is too short to have to explain everyday."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Didn't anybody here watch the Jets / Giants game?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/7bcc25a188b52f85?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 10:57 am
From: "Papa Carl"


No reactions or posts...seems strange. Has this place died?


== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 12:33 pm
From: "Parker Race"

"Papa Carl" <papa.carl@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:HZmdnXsSl9oXWsLTnZ2dnUVZ_hydnZ2d@giganews.com...
: No reactions or posts...seems strange. Has this place died?

My power and cable was out. Being a Giants fan I considered that a perk.


== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 12:54 pm
From: Michael


On Sep 1, 3:33 pm, "Parker Race" <parker.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:HZmdnXsSl9oXWsLTnZ2dnUVZ_hydnZ2d@giganews.com...
> : No reactions or posts...seems strange.  Has this place died?
>
> My power and cable was out. Being a Giants fan I considered that a perk.

no power or tv by me due to power outage... i listened on 1050 espn.

the only thing that stood out for me was the excellet play by the jets
starting lb's and the passing out of the pistol by the second team.
the poor showing by the jets first team passing game had me scratching
my head. i know they dont game plan or script plays in the preaseason,
but they should be able to execute basic pass patterns.


== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 1:08 pm
From: JetsLife


On Sep 1, 1:57 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> No reactions or posts...seems strange.  Has this place died?

It's the calm before the storm. Preseason calm before regular season
storm.

Also, we all get hyped for football, jump up for the first preseason
game. Then as the preseason grinds on for the players so it does for
fans. We need the sting of real battle, we remember. So by the time
the third and fourth games come around - it's a little meh.

Alas so per Parker's post I think the storm and its aftermath had
something to do with it.

I'll be posting something about Sanchez & Monday night's game I began
writing Tues. morning. Something I discussed on air with LaGreca &
Ruocco on 1050AM after the game Mon. night. Then again the following
day with Benigno & Roberts on WFAN. Post got lengthy as they often do
and been too busy to finish and post. I know everyone's waiting on
baited breath. :)


== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 2:19 pm
From: Grinch


On Sep 1, 1:57 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:

> No reactions or posts...seems strange.  Has this place died?

Unimpressive all the way around to me -- but also as any grounds for
criticism.

Us old-timers remember when players had to work in real jobs off-
season to make ends meet, so they showed up in training camp out-of-
shape and had to play themselves into it. The starters played a
quarter in one pre-season game, then a half in the next, then three
quarters. By the last pre-season game they were supposed to be in
shape and play hard for real as a rehearsal for the first real game of
the season. In that process you could get some fairly accurate
feeling for how good the team was.

But today the players are all paid so much they train full-year round,
show up in shape, and the main concern of the coaches in the
exhibition games seems to be keeping the starters from getting hurt.
Many aren't going to play at all in the last pre-season game.

Rex can blather all he wants about "win win win in the pre-season!",
but that ain't the way he or anybody else coaches. With the objective
just being to give the starters a little "tune up" play and to get a
good look at lot at subs and situation substitutes and guys trying to
make the roster, and the other team doing the same thing setting a
very uncertain level of opposition, what can we tell from just looking
at television? This guy looks good a few times, that guy looks bad a
few ... who knows how real it is?

Now, the first Jets-Giants game back in the Yale Bowl, that was
gladiatorial war -- I was there and well remember the Jets fans all
standing to give the thumbs down sign before the execution -- and you
could tell from it the relative strength of the two teams, Jets
heading back the playoffs, Giants heading to suckville.

But this last one, what could one really tell?

But don't worry, Papa, the arguments are coming!


== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 2:32 pm
From: "Papa Carl"

"Parker Race" <parker.race@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j3omln$510$1@dont-email.me...
>
> "Papa Carl" <papa.carl@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:HZmdnXsSl9oXWsLTnZ2dnUVZ_hydnZ2d@giganews.com...
> : No reactions or posts...seems strange. Has this place died?
>
> My power and cable was out. Being a Giants fan I considered that a perk.

:-) They'll come around....Eli does scare me though...I'm not sure he is
going to live up to what he did one year at the SB.


== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 2:33 pm
From: "Papa Carl"

"Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:b863c4e6-cab3-4c1e-8a89-d4599d442a8a@y21g2000yqy.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 1, 3:33 pm, "Parker Race" <parker.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:HZmdnXsSl9oXWsLTnZ2dnUVZ_hydnZ2d@giganews.com...
> : No reactions or posts...seems strange. Has this place died?
>
> My power and cable was out. Being a Giants fan I considered that a perk.

no power or tv by me due to power outage... i listened on 1050 espn.

the only thing that stood out for me was the excellet play by the jets
starting lb's and the passing out of the pistol by the second team.
the poor showing by the jets first team passing game had me scratching
my head. i know they dont game plan or script plays in the preaseason,
but they should be able to execute basic pass patterns.

Bingo....Plaxico is not ready to play football...he is simply not a threat
and is extremely easy to cover.


== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 2:36 pm
From: Johnny Morongo


On 9/1/2011 12:54 PM, Michael wrote:
> On Sep 1, 3:33 pm, "Parker Race"<parker.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Papa Carl"<papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:HZmdnXsSl9oXWsLTnZ2dnUVZ_hydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> : No reactions or posts...seems strange. Has this place died?
>>
>> My power and cable was out. Being a Giants fan I considered that a perk.
>
> no power or tv by me due to power outage... i listened on 1050 espn.
>
> the only thing that stood out for me was the excellet play by the jets
> starting lb's and the passing out of the pistol by the second team.
> the poor showing by the jets first team passing game had me scratching
> my head. i know they dont game plan or script plays in the preaseason,
> but they should be able to execute basic pass patterns.

You SHOULD be worried about the passing game, Michael. Sanchez was all
over the place. Burress was a non-factor because his QB couldn't hit
the broad side of Papa's ass, er, barn. I actually think McElroy is a
better passer than Sanchez, who is not very good in the pocket either.
On the move he's very good, but has all sorts of trouble when in a
stationary pocket, or so it seems to me.

It's no wonder that the talking heads pretty much ALL tab him as a
middle of the pack QB.


== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 2:37 pm
From: "Papa Carl"

"Grinch" <oldnasty@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8d1712e3-a982-4266-9d6f-44ec2f6140f8@s12g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 1, 1:57 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:

> No reactions or posts...seems strange. Has this place died?

Unimpressive all the way around to me -- but also as any grounds for
criticism.

Us old-timers remember when players had to work in real jobs off-
season to make ends meet, so they showed up in training camp out-of-
shape and had to play themselves into it. The starters played a
quarter in one pre-season game, then a half in the next, then three
quarters. By the last pre-season game they were supposed to be in
shape and play hard for real as a rehearsal for the first real game of
the season. In that process you could get some fairly accurate
feeling for how good the team was.

But today the players are all paid so much they train full-year round,
show up in shape, and the main concern of the coaches in the
exhibition games seems to be keeping the starters from getting hurt.
Many aren't going to play at all in the last pre-season game.

Rex can blather all he wants about "win win win in the pre-season!",
but that ain't the way he or anybody else coaches. With the objective
just being to give the starters a little "tune up" play and to get a
good look at lot at subs and situation substitutes and guys trying to
make the roster, and the other team doing the same thing setting a
very uncertain level of opposition, what can we tell from just looking
at television? This guy looks good a few times, that guy looks bad a
few ... who knows how real it is?

Now, the first Jets-Giants game back in the Yale Bowl, that was
gladiatorial war -- I was there and well remember the Jets fans all
standing to give the thumbs down sign before the execution -- and you
could tell from it the relative strength of the two teams, Jets
heading back the playoffs, Giants heading to suckville.

But this last one, what could one really tell?

But don't worry, Papa, the arguments are coming!

Agree in general...very much so. But I saw a Burress that can not run, can
not get open and is no where what he once was....unless he is was just doing
nothing as he used to do on occasion. Anyway...the passing attack seems to
have gone backwards to me. I would think that given the new people involved
they would have at least tried to make something work.


== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 4:03 pm
From: "Papa Carl"

"Johnny Morongo" <Morongo@Burf.com> wrote in message
news:j3otru$nt7$1@dont-email.me...
> On 9/1/2011 12:54 PM, Michael wrote:
>> On Sep 1, 3:33 pm, "Parker Race"<parker.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> "Papa Carl"<papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:HZmdnXsSl9oXWsLTnZ2dnUVZ_hydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> : No reactions or posts...seems strange. Has this place died?
>>>
>>> My power and cable was out. Being a Giants fan I considered that a perk.
>>
>> no power or tv by me due to power outage... i listened on 1050 espn.
>>
>> the only thing that stood out for me was the excellet play by the jets
>> starting lb's and the passing out of the pistol by the second team.
>> the poor showing by the jets first team passing game had me scratching
>> my head. i know they dont game plan or script plays in the preaseason,
>> but they should be able to execute basic pass patterns.
>
> You SHOULD be worried about the passing game, Michael. Sanchez was all
> over the place. Burress was a non-factor because his QB couldn't hit the
> broad side of Papa's ass, er, barn. I actually think McElroy is a better
> passer than Sanchez, who is not very good in the pocket either. On the
> move he's very good, but has all sorts of trouble when in a stationary
> pocket, or so it seems to me.
>
> It's no wonder that the talking heads pretty much ALL tab him as a middle
> of the pack QB.

Don't worry about my ass...not that big. But, Sanchez is not ready, and I
don't see how he is going to get ready with what is basically a new
receiving corp to work with and on top of that at least one of them who does
not appear to be working at it. I think they took a major step backwards
with the overall quality of receivers. Defenses are going to go cover
Holmes and let others go with single coverage and it's all over...and you
are right about the scheme with Sanchez in drop back...plus...he looks like
he's waiting to get hit. I'm not so confident about what is going to
happen...but that said, watching a bunch of the other teams, none of them
looked so great.


== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 4:36 pm
From: Hammer


On Sep 1, 5:37 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Grinch" <oldna...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>
> news:8d1712e3-a982-4266-9d6f-44ec2f6140f8@s12g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 1, 1:57 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > No reactions or posts...seems strange. Has this place died?
>
> Unimpressive all the way around to me -- but also as any grounds for
> criticism.
>
> Us old-timers remember when players had to work in real jobs off-
> season to make ends meet, so they showed up in training camp out-of-
> shape and had to play themselves into it. The starters played a
> quarter in one pre-season game, then a half in the next, then three
> quarters. By the last pre-season game they were supposed to be in
> shape and play hard for real as a rehearsal for the first real game of
> the season.  In that process you could get some fairly accurate
> feeling for how good the team was.
>
> But today the players are all paid so much they train full-year round,
> show up in shape, and the main concern of the coaches in the
> exhibition games seems to be keeping the starters from getting hurt.
> Many aren't going to play at all in the last pre-season game.
>
> Rex can blather all he wants about "win win win in the pre-season!",
> but that ain't the way he or anybody else coaches.  With the objective
> just being to give the starters a little "tune up" play and to get a
> good look at lot at subs and situation substitutes and guys trying to
> make the roster, and the other team doing the same thing setting a
> very uncertain level of opposition, what can we tell from just looking
> at television?  This guy looks good a few times, that guy looks bad a
> few ... who knows how real it is?
>
> Now, the first Jets-Giants game back in the Yale Bowl, that was
> gladiatorial war -- I was there and well remember the Jets fans all
> standing to give the thumbs down sign before the execution -- and you
> could tell from it the relative strength of the two teams, Jets
> heading back the playoffs, Giants heading to suckville.
>
> But this last one, what could one really tell?
>
> But don't worry, Papa, the arguments are coming!
>
> Agree in general...very much so.  But I saw a Burress that can not run, can
> not get open and is no where what he once was....unless he is was just doing
> nothing as he used to do on occasion.  Anyway...the passing attack seems to
> have gone backwards to me.  I would think that given the new people involved
> they would have at least tried to make something work.

I watched the game and I thought the whole team played like crap. The
only exceptions were Sanchez (yes I thought he played well) and some
of the second-stringers like Strickland and Pitoitua. The Giants
played like worse crap though.

I totally agree that the receiving corps was downgraded. Don't blame
it all on Sanchez though. He threw a pass that hit Holmes in the head,
and the first play of the Jets Offense was a pass in the flat to
Greene, which he dropped.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Turnover Differential, Jets INTs
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/e63cd756f7f0d93d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 12:50 pm
From: JetsLife


On Aug 30, 5:28 am, Grinch <oldna...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> On Aug 29, 2:23 pm, JetsLife <JetsL...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > No secret turnover differential is key to success. What's interesing
> > is *just how closely* it equates to success.
>
> > Last year's differential leaders are a who's who of playoff
> > participants. The SB participants Pittsburgh & GB ranked 2nd & 4th,
> > respectively. The two No. 1 seeds NE & Atlanta were ranked 1st & 3rd.
> > The Jets meanwhile were tied for 5th with four other teams with a +9
> > margin, led by their 18 forced fumbles good for 2nd in the NFL.
>
> > But if the Jets want to win it all, they must improve their INT
> > differential which was -1 last year. Obviously Sanchez still has room
> > for improvement, and hopefully he continues his downwards INT tick.
> > Even just 5 less INTs than last year could have a significant impact
> > on winning the division/being a No. 1 or 2 seed.
>
> > Of note is 7 of Sanchez's 13 picks came in only 3 games led by his
> > regular-season meltdown in NE. He's got to bear down if he throws an
> > early pick and not let it affect his play.
>
> > But it's our pass defense which arguably must improve more in the INT
> > dept. Now part of it's sheer math: the more the Jets score, the more
> > it pressures the opposing offense to pass. So here's hoping the Jets
> > put up more points than last year. But it mostly comes down to getting
> > back to the ball-hawking defense of '09.
>
> > I don't know last year's INT stats vs. 2009, but I'm near certain the
> > Jets got significantly less picks.
>
> Jets got 12 in 2010, 17 in 2009, league average was 16 both years.
>
> > Question is why.
>
> Lots of factors -- but not to be overlooked among them is that
> defensive picks are highly random.
>
> In 2009 when the Saints won the Super Bowl they were at the top of the
> league with 26. The next year, last year, they were dead last with all
> of 9.
>
> Three of the top six teams by picks in 2010 were below league average
> in 2009: Pitt, Atl and Chi.
>
> Since the Jets were unluckily below average last year -- 12 is really
> low for a D of their quality -- they'll probably get more this year
> just by that, as luck evens out.
>
>
>
> > Two obvious
> > factors are the Revis holdout/injury and Wilson's failed integration
> > in to the secondary. Those things likely had repercussions on the
> > secondary's cohesion well in to the season.
>
> > Other factors: how Pace's & Kris Jenkins' injuries impacted the pass
> > rush early and throughout (Rex said Pace's foot was only 20% healthy
> > at the end of last season), and Leonhard's late-season injury. It's
> > instructive the Jets were torched through the air in NE several days
> > after Leonhard went down.
>
> > Fast fwd to 2011: the starting secondary is intact from day 1 of
> > training camp; Wilson's no longer a rookie, trained with Revis in the
> > offseason so could be improved; Pace is healthy; and the d-line has
> > received an infusion of youth & talent with Wilky, Ellis, Ropati -
> > Tevaseu too?
>
> > May it all add up to an improved defense and more INTs!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Interesting. You're certainly right lady luck/randomness plays a role
in sports. Hell in life period. An inch there, an inch here, a gust of
wind, a black cat running on the Shea Stadium infield.

In addition to luck however: I wonder - assume? - there were tangible
factors effecting each team's yr-to-yr INT totals you mentioned. I'm
guessing each team had some personnel changes, issues, continuity
issues, etc. Randomness is a factor, but results don't happen in a
vacuum.

For example without actual reference: I'd bet the Steelers are in the
top 5-10 in INTs and turnover differential annually the past 15 years.
Not their annual average, but each season. It's one reason in the
most? conference title games during that span.

In addition to my original points, hopefully Rex & Pettine recently
expressing the following will lead to more Jets INTs:

Cromartie seeking to get his hands on receivers more (big if - he was
mostly atrocious v Giants Mon. night. This said he is a solid corner);
entire secondary returning intact from day 1; Eric Smith as the
confirmed starter; a return to some exotic and zone coverages from '09
and less man to man.


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 12:51 pm
From: JetsLife


On Aug 30, 2:34 pm, Grinch <oldna...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> On Aug 30, 7:37 am, ghostwolf <patrickfal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 30, 5:28 am, Grinch <oldna...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 29, 2:23 pm, JetsLife <JetsL...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > No secret turnover differential is key to success. What's interesing
> > > > is *just how closely* it equates to success.
>
> > > > Last year's differential leaders are a who's who of playoff
> > > > participants. The SB participants Pittsburgh & GB ranked 2nd & 4th,
> > > > respectively. The two No. 1 seeds NE & Atlanta were ranked 1st & 3rd.
> > > > The Jets meanwhile were tied for 5th with four other teams with a +9
> > > > margin, led by their 18 forced fumbles good for 2nd in the NFL.
>
> > > > But if the Jets want to win it all, they must improve their INT
> > > > differential which was -1 last year. Obviously Sanchez still has room
> > > > for improvement, and hopefully he continues his downwards INT tick.
> > > > Even just 5 less INTs than last year could have a significant impact
> > > > on winning the division/being a No. 1 or 2 seed.
>
> > > > Of note is 7 of Sanchez's 13 picks came in only 3 games led by his
> > > > regular-season meltdown in NE. He's got to bear down if he throws an
> > > > early pick and not let it affect his play.
>
> > > > But it's our pass defense which arguably must improve more in the INT
> > > > dept. Now part of it's sheer math: the more the Jets score, the more
> > > > it pressures the opposing offense to pass. So here's hoping the Jets
> > > > put up more points than last year. But it mostly comes down to getting
> > > > back to the ball-hawking defense of '09.
>
> > > > I don't know last year's INT stats vs. 2009, but I'm near certain the
> > > > Jets got significantly less picks.
>
> > > Jets got 12 in 2010, 17 in 2009, league average was 16 both years.
>
> > > > Question is why.
>
> > > Lots of factors -- but not to be overlooked among them is that
> > > defensive picks are highly random.
>
> > > In 2009 when the Saints won the Super Bowl they were at the top of the
> > > league with 26. The next year, last year, they were dead last with all
> > > of 9.
>
> > > Three of the top six teams by picks in 2010 were below league average
> > > in 2009: Pitt, Atl and Chi.
>
> > > Since the Jets were unluckily below average last year -- 12 is really
> > > low for a D of their quality -- they'll probably get more this year
> > > just by that, as luck evens out.
>
> > > > Two obvious
> > > > factors are the Revis holdout/injury and Wilson's failed integration
> > > > in to the secondary. Those things likely had repercussions on the
> > > > secondary's cohesion well in to the season.
>
> > > > Other factors: how Pace's & Kris Jenkins' injuries impacted the pass
> > > > rush early and throughout (Rex said Pace's foot was only 20% healthy
> > > > at the end of last season), and Leonhard's late-season injury. It's
> > > > instructive the Jets were torched through the air in NE several days
> > > > after Leonhard went down.
>
> > > > Fast fwd to 2011: the starting secondary is intact from day 1 of
> > > > training camp; Wilson's no longer a rookie, trained with Revis in the
> > > > offseason so could be improved; Pace is healthy; and the d-line has
> > > > received an infusion of youth & talent with Wilky, Ellis, Ropati -
> > > > Tevaseu too?
>
> > > > May it all add up to an improved defense and more INTs!- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > "The dice have no memory."- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Yup. Which is why they are most likely to go up to 16, the league
> average, from 12.  That's a 33% increase.
>
> And being that only about a quarter of teams each year have 12 or
> fewer, even with memory-free dice they have a 75% chance of doing
> better than 12.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Grincher where do you get your stats - I often want to find such stats
but can't find an adequate source.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 2:43 pm
From: Johnny Morongo


On 9/1/2011 12:51 PM, JetsLife wrote:
> On Aug 30, 2:34 pm, Grinch<oldna...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 30, 7:37 am, ghostwolf<patrickfal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 30, 5:28 am, Grinch<oldna...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> On Aug 29, 2:23 pm, JetsLife<JetsL...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> No secret turnover differential is key to success. What's interesing
>>>>> is *just how closely* it equates to success.
>>
>>>>> Last year's differential leaders are a who's who of playoff
>>>>> participants. The SB participants Pittsburgh& GB ranked 2nd& 4th,
>>>>> respectively. The two No. 1 seeds NE& Atlanta were ranked 1st& 3rd.
>>>>> The Jets meanwhile were tied for 5th with four other teams with a +9
>>>>> margin, led by their 18 forced fumbles good for 2nd in the NFL.
>>
>>>>> But if the Jets want to win it all, they must improve their INT
>>>>> differential which was -1 last year. Obviously Sanchez still has room
>>>>> for improvement, and hopefully he continues his downwards INT tick.
>>>>> Even just 5 less INTs than last year could have a significant impact
>>>>> on winning the division/being a No. 1 or 2 seed.
>>
>>>>> Of note is 7 of Sanchez's 13 picks came in only 3 games led by his
>>>>> regular-season meltdown in NE. He's got to bear down if he throws an
>>>>> early pick and not let it affect his play.
>>
>>>>> But it's our pass defense which arguably must improve more in the INT
>>>>> dept. Now part of it's sheer math: the more the Jets score, the more
>>>>> it pressures the opposing offense to pass. So here's hoping the Jets
>>>>> put up more points than last year. But it mostly comes down to getting
>>>>> back to the ball-hawking defense of '09.
>>
>>>>> I don't know last year's INT stats vs. 2009, but I'm near certain the
>>>>> Jets got significantly less picks.
>>
>>>> Jets got 12 in 2010, 17 in 2009, league average was 16 both years.
>>
>>>>> Question is why.
>>
>>>> Lots of factors -- but not to be overlooked among them is that
>>>> defensive picks are highly random.
>>
>>>> In 2009 when the Saints won the Super Bowl they were at the top of the
>>>> league with 26. The next year, last year, they were dead last with all
>>>> of 9.
>>
>>>> Three of the top six teams by picks in 2010 were below league average
>>>> in 2009: Pitt, Atl and Chi.
>>
>>>> Since the Jets were unluckily below average last year -- 12 is really
>>>> low for a D of their quality -- they'll probably get more this year
>>>> just by that, as luck evens out.
>>
>>>>> Two obvious
>>>>> factors are the Revis holdout/injury and Wilson's failed integration
>>>>> in to the secondary. Those things likely had repercussions on the
>>>>> secondary's cohesion well in to the season.
>>
>>>>> Other factors: how Pace's& Kris Jenkins' injuries impacted the pass
>>>>> rush early and throughout (Rex said Pace's foot was only 20% healthy
>>>>> at the end of last season), and Leonhard's late-season injury. It's
>>>>> instructive the Jets were torched through the air in NE several days
>>>>> after Leonhard went down.
>>
>>>>> Fast fwd to 2011: the starting secondary is intact from day 1 of
>>>>> training camp; Wilson's no longer a rookie, trained with Revis in the
>>>>> offseason so could be improved; Pace is healthy; and the d-line has
>>>>> received an infusion of youth& talent with Wilky, Ellis, Ropati -
>>>>> Tevaseu too?
>>
>>>>> May it all add up to an improved defense and more INTs!- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>> "The dice have no memory."- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Yup. Which is why they are most likely to go up to 16, the league
>> average, from 12. That's a 33% increase.
>>
>> And being that only about a quarter of teams each year have 12 or
>> fewer, even with memory-free dice they have a 75% chance of doing
>> better than 12.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Grincher where do you get your stats - I often want to find such stats
> but can't find an adequate source.


As usual, Life, Grinch's numbers are fictions. He'll stoop to any level
to prove a point.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: You Have A Dangerous,Deadly,Punitive,Terrific Storm Coming! Be Safe!!
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/a571b69501b5a84d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 5:07 pm
From: "mr dude@harvarduniversity.edu"


On Aug 29, 3:27 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:

>
> Some areas here in Central New Jersey are completely devastated.


A lawn chair being tipped over by a wind gust is not "devastation".

mr dude

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