Tuesday, October 25, 2011

17 winners out of 22 trades

Buzz It
Dear Trader,

Today is a GOOD day because Tom and Dustin are still
allowing us to download Tom's personal 'hand-crafted' Expert Advisor
that has been kicking some serious butt in the markets. I'll tell
you more below but hit this download link now:

>>>>> http://app.getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=TjJW&mc=BK&s=tsnF1&y=P&

There is one little catch though: they prefer you to run it on a demo account.
Yes, it will work on a live account, but people do crazy things when it comes
to money, and they want you to set it up and then keep your hands off it -just
let the software run, and you watch its behavior, and see its results…


Tom has a fascinating story, but the short version is that he spent
two years 'codifying' his personal trading strategy so he could make
his clients money - he is a former fund manager and the CEO of a
FOREX brokerage, so he's pretty sharp, plus he's been currency trading
for about 12 years. Long time - sharp guy!

But how does that help you? Well… he created this private EA which
is now working very well (when you follow his money management rules
for trading), and he's basically giving it away right now for you to
try out and see what you think, to profit from like his client did.

I appreciate Tom's motives - he didn't create this EA for any purpose
other than to simplify his trading, free up more personal time for fun,
and make his clients money in the process, and he accomplished all of
those goals. Now Dustin Pass has helped him make it publicly available,
and you're the one who benefits..

Here's the link to it, you won't have to opt-in or anything.

>>>>> http://app.getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=TjJW&mc=BK&s=tsnF1&y=P&

It's a no-cost download for a very limited time, so you need to hurry.
If you don't take action quickly, this train will leave the station
without you, and you definitely don't want that to happen.

I look at this as a pure money handout, because you can run it on a demo account
to make sure it works, then if you feel comfortable, apply it to a live
account and profit with it.

____________________________
Chris left this comment: "This EA really works!! 17 winning trade out
of 22 in one day. Amazing!"
____________________________

If it doesn't grow your demo account, then it's not right for you, but
based on the feedback and buzz I've been hearing, this thing is a
'Steady Eddy' - consistent gains, plus it handles crazy and sudden
FOREX market moves far better than any human could.

So download you copy at that link and take the few minutes to set it up.
Let it run while you sleep, and see how it does in the morning.

The easy installation video is on the download page, and they will
provide the risk and money management guidelines to follow, just a few
basic rules to keep you safe. Happy trading - let me know how it works
for you.

>>>>> http://app.getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=TjJW&mc=BK&s=tsnF1&y=P&

With Gratitude,
Tom Strignano

P.S: This is not an open ended giveaway, the number of no-cost downloads
is limited, so do not procrastinate. I jumped on this on day one and it's
looking promising already, so join me.

>>>>> http://app.getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=TjJW&mc=BK&s=tsnF1&y=P&


==================================================

Tom Strignano, Oceans Drive, Miami, FL 33139, United States
To unsubscribe visit:
http://app.getresponse.com/unsubscribe.html?x=a62b&m=H090&s=tsnF1&y=w&
To change your contact details visit:
http://app.getresponse.com/change_details.html?x=a62b&s=tsnF1&y=1&

alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets - 23 new messages in 4 topics - digest

Buzz It
alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets?hl=en

alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Chargers complaining about officiating - 11 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/d9589e69c08ec446?hl=en
* Would you make this deal? - 10 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/5ec6f772825c0e3a?hl=en
* Sign Up Shonn Greene On the Cheap Now - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/a4e1f911e8d9e062?hl=en
* Win a $50 gift card by participating in short political study - 1 messages,
1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/080361ada8de5c0d?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Chargers complaining about officiating
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/d9589e69c08ec446?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 12:21 pm
From: Michael


On Oct 25, 2:55 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 2:20 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 25, 11:41 am, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 25, 10:44 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 24, 11:12 pm, Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > And, that ignores the ludicrousness of a Pat or Steeler fan ever
> > > > > complaining about officials and both teams have Lombardis to show for it.
>
> > > > Yep… I was thinking exactly just that.  MZ is in here biting the hand
> > > > that feeds his team.  Bad calls are made week in and week out.  The
> > > > Jets are not, nor have they ever been known as a team that brings
> > > > their own officials.
>
> > > That's your impression.  It's also everybody's impression that Brady
> > > gets more roughing calls than other QBs, but that argument is easily
> > > defeated.  It serves a purpose though -- it tells us about how
> > > impressions are often far removed from reality.  We all have something
> > > to learn from this.
>
> > > I think this thread serves as a good demonstration that the Jets are
> > > the lucky recipients of these calls.  I can't remember the last time
> > > the Pats got away with such a ludicrous PI as what the Jets got in
> > > this game (on a crucial drive).  That's got "C'Mon Man" highlight reel
> > > written all over it.  If it was the Pats, there would be a hell of a
> > > lot more people talking about it than the four people in a thread on
> > > usenet.  This is where bias and false impressions are born!
>
> > > But I do agree with Harlan and the others that the officials generally
> > > looked like they had no idea what was going on throughout the whole
> > > damned thing (or at least the 2nd half, which is the one I saw).
> > > Their ineptitude just happened to favor the Jets a lot more than the
> > > opposition this time.  Next time maybe it goes the other way, and you
> > > and Tutor will start screaming about grassy knoll stuff.
>
> > > > When Shula was with Miami, they got all the calls
> > > > and everyone saw it and knew it.  For some time now, it has been the
> > > > Steelers and Pats that get all the calls. Everyone sees it and knows
> > > > it.  The Pats would be short at least one Lombardi without some "help"
> > > > and the Steelers would be short five of them… May be six.   BTW…. The
> > > > Pats would be short all of them without "a little help" picking up the
> > > > blitz and calling the right coverage.
>
> > > Oh, right, spygate.  I forgot.  Here's an exercise for you, Michael.
>
> > > 5 : 2    RUN
> > > 4 : 2    PASS
> > > 5 : 1    RUN
> > > 3 : 2    PASS
> > > 6 : 1    PASS
> > > 7 : 4    PASS
>
> > > If you look closely at the simple "code" above, you can figure out
> > > that one of the trends is that an odd number represents "RUN" and an
> > > even number represents "PASS".  So, if you know which of the two
> > > numbers to look at, you can easily decode run or pass.  This is a
> > > simplified example, but it mimics how teams use decoys to convey
> > > defensive signals.  So, now that you know the code... tell me...
>
> > > 2 : 5    RUN or PASS?
>
> > > You can't, because the whole point of a decoy system is to make the
> > > coding system itself ambiguous.  Put another way, not only is the
> > > encoder "encrypted", but so is the decoder.  This is actually how lots
> > > of systems (like Netflix, for example) do things.  This is why teams
> > > don't generally devote a lot of resources towards attempting to decode
> > > signals.  It's only fruitful when teams are lazy and don't use a
> > > decoy.  According to Mike Tomlin, everybody knew which teams attempted
> > > to decode signals, and which team videotaped them.  Therefore, they
> > > used decoys.
>
> > > Anyone who understands anything about football also understands that
> > > "spygate" had no impact on games, relative to other decoding methods
> > > that teams use (legally).  At best, it may have meant that Bob Kraft
> > > saved a few thousand bucks on employee salaries, since the job of
> > > several people could be condensed to the job of one with a video
> > > camera.  Spygate was the most overblown news story in the history of
> > > the NFL because it meant nothing.  Goodell exacerbated the problem by
> > > handling it stupidly because, as he's proven on several occasions
> > > since then, he's a stupid man.
>
> > > If you want to talk about how cheating may have impacted football
> > > games, let's talk about the accusation that nobody is talking about
> > > (because people tend towards drama instead of intelligence):  that the
> > > Patriots may have interrupted QB communication during games.  Unlike
> > > spygate, this could have had a real impact on (home) games.  I don't
> > > know that there was ever any evidence provided in support for this.
> > > But who would know?  The media never covered it!  They were too
> > > focused on a non-issue.  0-0-7 stories sell more newspapers.
>
> > Mark... Once in a while, the Jets get a gift just like the rest of the
> > NFL teams.  The one that sticks out in my mind is the Vinny T. phantom
> > td vs. the Seahawks.  Vinny T. was a clearly a yard short of the goal
> > line.  That loss impacted the Seahawks' season as well as the Jets...
> > I'm not talking grassy knoll stuff with the Steelers and Pats... The
> > issue here is not Patriots, Brady or Steelers.  It is not even
> > football... The issue here is *media*.  The NFL is not a sports or a
> > football phenomenon.  It is a media phenomenon.  That is where all the
> > money and power comes from.  When NFL "brand names" do well, more
> > money is made.  Think of Brady as a bottle of expensive designer
> > perfume on the shelf marketed to high income women shopping on 5th
> > Ave... Think of Pittsburg and Rapistburger as a can of beer in the
> > fridge at the corner liquor store all ready to be purchased by an
> > extensive market of inarticulate, uneducated coal/steel/blue collar
> > workers that beat their wives when the Steelers lose.  When officials
> > respond to marketing pressures that most certainly exist and
> > subsequently make their way down to the field, it is a media
> > phenomenon.  Brand names are promoted and protected for the sake of
> > market appeal and maximizing profits.  That would now also include the
> > "fukin Jets".  Four prime time Jets games this season and non stop
> > headlines.  They are attractive to the media now.  Now let's go eat a
> > g*ddam snack !!!
>
> > BTW... Goddell was protecting profits when he spared the league a
> > major media tar and feathering by torching the Eagles walk through
> > that the Pats had taped.
>
> Michael, I understand.  But according to many (evidently Tutor among
> them), the gifts started long before the Patriots and Tom Brady became
> a "brand".- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I'd say the first Pats "gift" was the tuck rule. Late that season,
the Pats brand name along with Brady was taking shape. A team of
destiny... Red, white and blue "Patriots" flying our glorious colors
in the midst of a national crisis. Later on it morphed into Tom
Terrific GQ model and so on... The Steelers have been a national
brand name with specific market appeal for much longer. Not saying
that the officials make stuff up... Not at all... With each game comes
strage plays, unpredictable bounces of the oddly shaped ball,
questions regarding the rules... All that stuff happens fortuitously.
When in doubt, or when given an oppetunity, the officials side with
the brand name. An NFL game is very fragile. It takes very little to
influence the outcome. A single call can do the trick and there are
oppertunities to do so on every single play. The Steelers vs.
Seahawks Superbowl is a clinic. Same with Steelers vs. Cardinals
Superbowl.

An interesting bit to consiser... There are two ways to establish an
NFL brand name. You can do it with market identity or you can do it
with "star power". The Pats dont really have a market identity. They
have star power with Brady being their handsome product label. Same
deal with the Jets when they had Sonny Werblin building the "Broadway
Joe" star power. The Raiders, Cowboys, and Steelers all have very
specific marketing identities appart from the roster. IMHO, those
three teams got a lot of "help" along the way. It was all related to
marketing and money. It had nothing to do with who was who's pal or
who was friends with the commish at the time.


== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 12:50 pm
From: MuahMan


On Oct 25, 1:18 pm, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 09:49:14 -0700 (PDT), Tutor <dcat4...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >...reading all this
> >re: officiating makes me sad that the officiating is pretty bad in the
> >NFL.
>
> What's also sad is that it has become so bad that the topic of
> officiating dominates discussion here and in the media. I for one would
> much rather focus on other aspects of the games.
> --
> graybeard

You can focus on the games when the officials change the results of
all of them. Had the officials been confident the Jets would have lost
to the Dolphins. The 14 point swing on the Revis PI return for a TD
changed the entire outcome of the game.


== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 1:49 pm
From: MZ


On Oct 25, 3:21 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 2:55 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 25, 2:20 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 25, 11:41 am, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 25, 10:44 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 24, 11:12 pm, Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > And, that ignores the ludicrousness of a Pat or Steeler fan ever
> > > > > > complaining about officials and both teams have Lombardis to show for it.
>
> > > > > Yep… I was thinking exactly just that.  MZ is in here biting the hand
> > > > > that feeds his team.  Bad calls are made week in and week out.  The
> > > > > Jets are not, nor have they ever been known as a team that brings
> > > > > their own officials.
>
> > > > That's your impression.  It's also everybody's impression that Brady
> > > > gets more roughing calls than other QBs, but that argument is easily
> > > > defeated.  It serves a purpose though -- it tells us about how
> > > > impressions are often far removed from reality.  We all have something
> > > > to learn from this.
>
> > > > I think this thread serves as a good demonstration that the Jets are
> > > > the lucky recipients of these calls.  I can't remember the last time
> > > > the Pats got away with such a ludicrous PI as what the Jets got in
> > > > this game (on a crucial drive).  That's got "C'Mon Man" highlight reel
> > > > written all over it.  If it was the Pats, there would be a hell of a
> > > > lot more people talking about it than the four people in a thread on
> > > > usenet.  This is where bias and false impressions are born!
>
> > > > But I do agree with Harlan and the others that the officials generally
> > > > looked like they had no idea what was going on throughout the whole
> > > > damned thing (or at least the 2nd half, which is the one I saw).
> > > > Their ineptitude just happened to favor the Jets a lot more than the
> > > > opposition this time.  Next time maybe it goes the other way, and you
> > > > and Tutor will start screaming about grassy knoll stuff.
>
> > > > > When Shula was with Miami, they got all the calls
> > > > > and everyone saw it and knew it.  For some time now, it has been the
> > > > > Steelers and Pats that get all the calls. Everyone sees it and knows
> > > > > it.  The Pats would be short at least one Lombardi without some "help"
> > > > > and the Steelers would be short five of them… May be six.   BTW…. The
> > > > > Pats would be short all of them without "a little help" picking up the
> > > > > blitz and calling the right coverage.
>
> > > > Oh, right, spygate.  I forgot.  Here's an exercise for you, Michael.
>
> > > > 5 : 2    RUN
> > > > 4 : 2    PASS
> > > > 5 : 1    RUN
> > > > 3 : 2    PASS
> > > > 6 : 1    PASS
> > > > 7 : 4    PASS
>
> > > > If you look closely at the simple "code" above, you can figure out
> > > > that one of the trends is that an odd number represents "RUN" and an
> > > > even number represents "PASS".  So, if you know which of the two
> > > > numbers to look at, you can easily decode run or pass.  This is a
> > > > simplified example, but it mimics how teams use decoys to convey
> > > > defensive signals.  So, now that you know the code... tell me...
>
> > > > 2 : 5    RUN or PASS?
>
> > > > You can't, because the whole point of a decoy system is to make the
> > > > coding system itself ambiguous.  Put another way, not only is the
> > > > encoder "encrypted", but so is the decoder.  This is actually how lots
> > > > of systems (like Netflix, for example) do things.  This is why teams
> > > > don't generally devote a lot of resources towards attempting to decode
> > > > signals.  It's only fruitful when teams are lazy and don't use a
> > > > decoy.  According to Mike Tomlin, everybody knew which teams attempted
> > > > to decode signals, and which team videotaped them.  Therefore, they
> > > > used decoys.
>
> > > > Anyone who understands anything about football also understands that
> > > > "spygate" had no impact on games, relative to other decoding methods
> > > > that teams use (legally).  At best, it may have meant that Bob Kraft
> > > > saved a few thousand bucks on employee salaries, since the job of
> > > > several people could be condensed to the job of one with a video
> > > > camera.  Spygate was the most overblown news story in the history of
> > > > the NFL because it meant nothing.  Goodell exacerbated the problem by
> > > > handling it stupidly because, as he's proven on several occasions
> > > > since then, he's a stupid man.
>
> > > > If you want to talk about how cheating may have impacted football
> > > > games, let's talk about the accusation that nobody is talking about
> > > > (because people tend towards drama instead of intelligence):  that the
> > > > Patriots may have interrupted QB communication during games.  Unlike
> > > > spygate, this could have had a real impact on (home) games.  I don't
> > > > know that there was ever any evidence provided in support for this.
> > > > But who would know?  The media never covered it!  They were too
> > > > focused on a non-issue.  0-0-7 stories sell more newspapers.
>
> > > Mark... Once in a while, the Jets get a gift just like the rest of the
> > > NFL teams.  The one that sticks out in my mind is the Vinny T. phantom
> > > td vs. the Seahawks.  Vinny T. was a clearly a yard short of the goal
> > > line.  That loss impacted the Seahawks' season as well as the Jets...
> > > I'm not talking grassy knoll stuff with the Steelers and Pats... The
> > > issue here is not Patriots, Brady or Steelers.  It is not even
> > > football... The issue here is *media*.  The NFL is not a sports or a
> > > football phenomenon.  It is a media phenomenon.  That is where all the
> > > money and power comes from.  When NFL "brand names" do well, more
> > > money is made.  Think of Brady as a bottle of expensive designer
> > > perfume on the shelf marketed to high income women shopping on 5th
> > > Ave... Think of Pittsburg and Rapistburger as a can of beer in the
> > > fridge at the corner liquor store all ready to be purchased by an
> > > extensive market of inarticulate, uneducated coal/steel/blue collar
> > > workers that beat their wives when the Steelers lose.  When officials
> > > respond to marketing pressures that most certainly exist and
> > > subsequently make their way down to the field, it is a media
> > > phenomenon.  Brand names are promoted and protected for the sake of
> > > market appeal and maximizing profits.  That would now also include the
> > > "fukin Jets".  Four prime time Jets games this season and non stop
> > > headlines.  They are attractive to the media now.  Now let's go eat a
> > > g*ddam snack !!!
>
> > > BTW... Goddell was protecting profits when he spared the league a
> > > major media tar and feathering by torching the Eagles walk through
> > > that the Pats had taped.
>
> > Michael, I understand.  But according to many (evidently Tutor among
> > them), the gifts started long before the Patriots and Tom Brady became
> > a "brand".- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I'd say the first Pats "gift" was the tuck rule.  Late that season,
> the Pats brand name along with Brady was taking shape.  A team of
> destiny... Red, white and blue "Patriots" flying our glorious colors
> in the midst of a national crisis. Later on it morphed into Tom
> Terrific GQ model and so on...

Ummm...that was much later. After Brady won his first super bowl,
there was a 50/50 debate over whether he should be traded. Nobody
thought he was any good. The phrase "system QB" was the most
frequently used phrase to describe him, and he drew comparisons to
Trent Dilfer among all the talking heads. Nobody, including Pats
fans, ever had any idea he would become what he did. And nobody gave
them a chance against the "greatest show on turf", a label for the
Rams that the media ran with. The notion that they were media
darlings back then is totally revisionist history, Michael.

So the "tuck" rule came from 9/11? But nothing else did? It also
came against the Raiders, who you say get calls in their favor because
of their marketing appeal.


== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 1:58 pm
From: Michael


On Oct 25, 4:49 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 3:21 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 25, 2:55 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 25, 2:20 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 25, 11:41 am, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 25, 10:44 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Oct 24, 11:12 pm, Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > And, that ignores the ludicrousness of a Pat or Steeler fan ever
> > > > > > > complaining about officials and both teams have Lombardis to show for it.
>
> > > > > > Yep… I was thinking exactly just that.  MZ is in here biting the hand
> > > > > > that feeds his team.  Bad calls are made week in and week out.  The
> > > > > > Jets are not, nor have they ever been known as a team that brings
> > > > > > their own officials.
>
> > > > > That's your impression.  It's also everybody's impression that Brady
> > > > > gets more roughing calls than other QBs, but that argument is easily
> > > > > defeated.  It serves a purpose though -- it tells us about how
> > > > > impressions are often far removed from reality.  We all have something
> > > > > to learn from this.
>
> > > > > I think this thread serves as a good demonstration that the Jets are
> > > > > the lucky recipients of these calls.  I can't remember the last time
> > > > > the Pats got away with such a ludicrous PI as what the Jets got in
> > > > > this game (on a crucial drive).  That's got "C'Mon Man" highlight reel
> > > > > written all over it.  If it was the Pats, there would be a hell of a
> > > > > lot more people talking about it than the four people in a thread on
> > > > > usenet.  This is where bias and false impressions are born!
>
> > > > > But I do agree with Harlan and the others that the officials generally
> > > > > looked like they had no idea what was going on throughout the whole
> > > > > damned thing (or at least the 2nd half, which is the one I saw).
> > > > > Their ineptitude just happened to favor the Jets a lot more than the
> > > > > opposition this time.  Next time maybe it goes the other way, and you
> > > > > and Tutor will start screaming about grassy knoll stuff.
>
> > > > > > When Shula was with Miami, they got all the calls
> > > > > > and everyone saw it and knew it.  For some time now, it has been the
> > > > > > Steelers and Pats that get all the calls. Everyone sees it and knows
> > > > > > it.  The Pats would be short at least one Lombardi without some "help"
> > > > > > and the Steelers would be short five of them… May be six.   BTW…. The
> > > > > > Pats would be short all of them without "a little help" picking up the
> > > > > > blitz and calling the right coverage.
>
> > > > > Oh, right, spygate.  I forgot.  Here's an exercise for you, Michael.
>
> > > > > 5 : 2    RUN
> > > > > 4 : 2    PASS
> > > > > 5 : 1    RUN
> > > > > 3 : 2    PASS
> > > > > 6 : 1    PASS
> > > > > 7 : 4    PASS
>
> > > > > If you look closely at the simple "code" above, you can figure out
> > > > > that one of the trends is that an odd number represents "RUN" and an
> > > > > even number represents "PASS".  So, if you know which of the two
> > > > > numbers to look at, you can easily decode run or pass.  This is a
> > > > > simplified example, but it mimics how teams use decoys to convey
> > > > > defensive signals.  So, now that you know the code... tell me...
>
> > > > > 2 : 5    RUN or PASS?
>
> > > > > You can't, because the whole point of a decoy system is to make the
> > > > > coding system itself ambiguous.  Put another way, not only is the
> > > > > encoder "encrypted", but so is the decoder.  This is actually how lots
> > > > > of systems (like Netflix, for example) do things.  This is why teams
> > > > > don't generally devote a lot of resources towards attempting to decode
> > > > > signals.  It's only fruitful when teams are lazy and don't use a
> > > > > decoy.  According to Mike Tomlin, everybody knew which teams attempted
> > > > > to decode signals, and which team videotaped them.  Therefore, they
> > > > > used decoys.
>
> > > > > Anyone who understands anything about football also understands that
> > > > > "spygate" had no impact on games, relative to other decoding methods
> > > > > that teams use (legally).  At best, it may have meant that Bob Kraft
> > > > > saved a few thousand bucks on employee salaries, since the job of
> > > > > several people could be condensed to the job of one with a video
> > > > > camera.  Spygate was the most overblown news story in the history of
> > > > > the NFL because it meant nothing.  Goodell exacerbated the problem by
> > > > > handling it stupidly because, as he's proven on several occasions
> > > > > since then, he's a stupid man.
>
> > > > > If you want to talk about how cheating may have impacted football
> > > > > games, let's talk about the accusation that nobody is talking about
> > > > > (because people tend towards drama instead of intelligence):  that the
> > > > > Patriots may have interrupted QB communication during games.  Unlike
> > > > > spygate, this could have had a real impact on (home) games.  I don't
> > > > > know that there was ever any evidence provided in support for this.
> > > > > But who would know?  The media never covered it!  They were too
> > > > > focused on a non-issue.  0-0-7 stories sell more newspapers.
>
> > > > Mark... Once in a while, the Jets get a gift just like the rest of the
> > > > NFL teams.  The one that sticks out in my mind is the Vinny T. phantom
> > > > td vs. the Seahawks.  Vinny T. was a clearly a yard short of the goal
> > > > line.  That loss impacted the Seahawks' season as well as the Jets...
> > > > I'm not talking grassy knoll stuff with the Steelers and Pats... The
> > > > issue here is not Patriots, Brady or Steelers.  It is not even
> > > > football... The issue here is *media*.  The NFL is not a sports or a
> > > > football phenomenon.  It is a media phenomenon.  That is where all the
> > > > money and power comes from.  When NFL "brand names" do well, more
> > > > money is made.  Think of Brady as a bottle of expensive designer
> > > > perfume on the shelf marketed to high income women shopping on 5th
> > > > Ave... Think of Pittsburg and Rapistburger as a can of beer in the
> > > > fridge at the corner liquor store all ready to be purchased by an
> > > > extensive market of inarticulate, uneducated coal/steel/blue collar
> > > > workers that beat their wives when the Steelers lose.  When officials
> > > > respond to marketing pressures that most certainly exist and
> > > > subsequently make their way down to the field, it is a media
> > > > phenomenon.  Brand names are promoted and protected for the sake of
> > > > market appeal and maximizing profits.  That would now also include the
> > > > "fukin Jets".  Four prime time Jets games this season and non stop
> > > > headlines.  They are attractive to the media now.  Now let's go eat a
> > > > g*ddam snack !!!
>
> > > > BTW... Goddell was protecting profits when he spared the league a
> > > > major media tar and feathering by torching the Eagles walk through
> > > > that the Pats had taped.
>
> > > Michael, I understand.  But according to many (evidently Tutor among
> > > them), the gifts started long before the Patriots and Tom Brady became
> > > a "brand".- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I'd say the first Pats "gift" was the tuck rule.  Late that season,
> > the Pats brand name along with Brady was taking shape.  A team of
> > destiny... Red, white and blue "Patriots" flying our glorious colors
> > in the midst of a national crisis. Later on it morphed into Tom
> > Terrific GQ model and so on...
>
> Ummm...that was much later.  After Brady won his first super bowl,
> there was a 50/50 debate over whether he should be traded.  Nobody
> thought he was any good.  The phrase "system QB" was the most
> frequently used phrase to describe him, and he drew comparisons to
> Trent Dilfer among all the talking heads.  Nobody, including Pats
> fans, ever had any idea he would become what he did.  And nobody gave
> them a chance against the "greatest show on turf", a label for the
> Rams that the media ran with.  The notion that they were media
> darlings back then is totally revisionist history, Michael.

i dont see it that way... they were instant media darlings because
they were the little red while and blue underdogs.

> So the "tuck" rule came from 9/11?  But nothing else did?  It also
> came against the Raiders, who you say get calls in their favor because
> of their marketing appeal.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

the patriots appeal at that moment trumped the raiders "thug" brand
name appeal. the reffs stepped in and gave them the ball back with
the tuck rule so they could fullfill their patriotic duty


== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 3:38 pm
From: Tutor


On Oct 25, 3:50 pm, MuahMan <muah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 1:18 pm, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 09:49:14 -0700 (PDT), Tutor <dcat4...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >...reading all this
> > >re: officiating makes me sad that the officiating is pretty bad in the
> > >NFL.
>
> > What's also sad is that it has become so bad that the topic of
> > officiating dominates discussion here and in the media. I for one would
> > much rather focus on other aspects of the games.
> > --
> > graybeard
>
> You can focus on the games when the officials change the results of
> all of them. Had the officials been confident the Jets would have lost
> to the Dolphins. The 14 point swing on the Revis PI return for a TD
> changed the entire outcome of the game.

Poor Brian


== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 3:57 pm
From: MZ


On Oct 25, 4:58 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 4:49 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 25, 3:21 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 25, 2:55 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 25, 2:20 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 25, 11:41 am, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Oct 25, 10:44 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Oct 24, 11:12 pm, Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > And, that ignores the ludicrousness of a Pat or Steeler fan ever
> > > > > > > > complaining about officials and both teams have Lombardis to show for it.
>
> > > > > > > Yep… I was thinking exactly just that.  MZ is in here biting the hand
> > > > > > > that feeds his team.  Bad calls are made week in and week out.  The
> > > > > > > Jets are not, nor have they ever been known as a team that brings
> > > > > > > their own officials.
>
> > > > > > That's your impression.  It's also everybody's impression that Brady
> > > > > > gets more roughing calls than other QBs, but that argument is easily
> > > > > > defeated.  It serves a purpose though -- it tells us about how
> > > > > > impressions are often far removed from reality.  We all have something
> > > > > > to learn from this.
>
> > > > > > I think this thread serves as a good demonstration that the Jets are
> > > > > > the lucky recipients of these calls.  I can't remember the last time
> > > > > > the Pats got away with such a ludicrous PI as what the Jets got in
> > > > > > this game (on a crucial drive).  That's got "C'Mon Man" highlight reel
> > > > > > written all over it.  If it was the Pats, there would be a hell of a
> > > > > > lot more people talking about it than the four people in a thread on
> > > > > > usenet.  This is where bias and false impressions are born!
>
> > > > > > But I do agree with Harlan and the others that the officials generally
> > > > > > looked like they had no idea what was going on throughout the whole
> > > > > > damned thing (or at least the 2nd half, which is the one I saw).
> > > > > > Their ineptitude just happened to favor the Jets a lot more than the
> > > > > > opposition this time.  Next time maybe it goes the other way, and you
> > > > > > and Tutor will start screaming about grassy knoll stuff.
>
> > > > > > > When Shula was with Miami, they got all the calls
> > > > > > > and everyone saw it and knew it.  For some time now, it has been the
> > > > > > > Steelers and Pats that get all the calls. Everyone sees it and knows
> > > > > > > it.  The Pats would be short at least one Lombardi without some "help"
> > > > > > > and the Steelers would be short five of them… May be six.   BTW…. The
> > > > > > > Pats would be short all of them without "a little help" picking up the
> > > > > > > blitz and calling the right coverage.
>
> > > > > > Oh, right, spygate.  I forgot.  Here's an exercise for you, Michael.
>
> > > > > > 5 : 2    RUN
> > > > > > 4 : 2    PASS
> > > > > > 5 : 1    RUN
> > > > > > 3 : 2    PASS
> > > > > > 6 : 1    PASS
> > > > > > 7 : 4    PASS
>
> > > > > > If you look closely at the simple "code" above, you can figure out
> > > > > > that one of the trends is that an odd number represents "RUN" and an
> > > > > > even number represents "PASS".  So, if you know which of the two
> > > > > > numbers to look at, you can easily decode run or pass.  This is a
> > > > > > simplified example, but it mimics how teams use decoys to convey
> > > > > > defensive signals.  So, now that you know the code... tell me...
>
> > > > > > 2 : 5    RUN or PASS?
>
> > > > > > You can't, because the whole point of a decoy system is to make the
> > > > > > coding system itself ambiguous.  Put another way, not only is the
> > > > > > encoder "encrypted", but so is the decoder.  This is actually how lots
> > > > > > of systems (like Netflix, for example) do things.  This is why teams
> > > > > > don't generally devote a lot of resources towards attempting to decode
> > > > > > signals.  It's only fruitful when teams are lazy and don't use a
> > > > > > decoy.  According to Mike Tomlin, everybody knew which teams attempted
> > > > > > to decode signals, and which team videotaped them.  Therefore, they
> > > > > > used decoys.
>
> > > > > > Anyone who understands anything about football also understands that
> > > > > > "spygate" had no impact on games, relative to other decoding methods
> > > > > > that teams use (legally).  At best, it may have meant that Bob Kraft
> > > > > > saved a few thousand bucks on employee salaries, since the job of
> > > > > > several people could be condensed to the job of one with a video
> > > > > > camera.  Spygate was the most overblown news story in the history of
> > > > > > the NFL because it meant nothing.  Goodell exacerbated the problem by
> > > > > > handling it stupidly because, as he's proven on several occasions
> > > > > > since then, he's a stupid man.
>
> > > > > > If you want to talk about how cheating may have impacted football
> > > > > > games, let's talk about the accusation that nobody is talking about
> > > > > > (because people tend towards drama instead of intelligence):  that the
> > > > > > Patriots may have interrupted QB communication during games.  Unlike
> > > > > > spygate, this could have had a real impact on (home) games.  I don't
> > > > > > know that there was ever any evidence provided in support for this.
> > > > > > But who would know?  The media never covered it!  They were too
> > > > > > focused on a non-issue.  0-0-7 stories sell more newspapers.
>
> > > > > Mark... Once in a while, the Jets get a gift just like the rest of the
> > > > > NFL teams.  The one that sticks out in my mind is the Vinny T. phantom
> > > > > td vs. the Seahawks.  Vinny T. was a clearly a yard short of the goal
> > > > > line.  That loss impacted the Seahawks' season as well as the Jets...
> > > > > I'm not talking grassy knoll stuff with the Steelers and Pats... The
> > > > > issue here is not Patriots, Brady or Steelers.  It is not even
> > > > > football... The issue here is *media*.  The NFL is not a sports or a
> > > > > football phenomenon.  It is a media phenomenon.  That is where all the
> > > > > money and power comes from.  When NFL "brand names" do well, more
> > > > > money is made.  Think of Brady as a bottle of expensive designer
> > > > > perfume on the shelf marketed to high income women shopping on 5th
> > > > > Ave... Think of Pittsburg and Rapistburger as a can of beer in the
> > > > > fridge at the corner liquor store all ready to be purchased by an
> > > > > extensive market of inarticulate, uneducated coal/steel/blue collar
> > > > > workers that beat their wives when the Steelers lose.  When officials
> > > > > respond to marketing pressures that most certainly exist and
> > > > > subsequently make their way down to the field, it is a media
> > > > > phenomenon.  Brand names are promoted and protected for the sake of
> > > > > market appeal and maximizing profits.  That would now also include the
> > > > > "fukin Jets".  Four prime time Jets games this season and non stop
> > > > > headlines.  They are attractive to the media now.  Now let's go eat a
> > > > > g*ddam snack !!!
>
> > > > > BTW... Goddell was protecting profits when he spared the league a
> > > > > major media tar and feathering by torching the Eagles walk through
> > > > > that the Pats had taped.
>
> > > > Michael, I understand.  But according to many (evidently Tutor among
> > > > them), the gifts started long before the Patriots and Tom Brady became
> > > > a "brand".- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > I'd say the first Pats "gift" was the tuck rule.  Late that season,
> > > the Pats brand name along with Brady was taking shape.  A team of
> > > destiny... Red, white and blue "Patriots" flying our glorious colors
> > > in the midst of a national crisis. Later on it morphed into Tom
> > > Terrific GQ model and so on...
>
> > Ummm...that was much later.  After Brady won his first super bowl,
> > there was a 50/50 debate over whether he should be traded.  Nobody
> > thought he was any good.  The phrase "system QB" was the most
> > frequently used phrase to describe him, and he drew comparisons to
> > Trent Dilfer among all the talking heads.  Nobody, including Pats
> > fans, ever had any idea he would become what he did.  And nobody gave
> > them a chance against the "greatest show on turf", a label for the
> > Rams that the media ran with.  The notion that they were media
> > darlings back then is totally revisionist history, Michael.
>
> i dont see it that way... they were instant media darlings because
> they were the little red while and blue underdogs.

That doesn't make sense to me. On the one hand, you say there are
favored teams (Pats, Steelers). Now you're saying that being an
underdog makes you a media darling. These seem like opposite ends of
the spectrum.


== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 4:00 pm
From: "Papa Carl"

"Michael" <mjd1966@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:620c9e00-bb7a-4723-a0f7-3288f3d3eab5@n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 25, 2:55 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 2:20 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 25, 11:41 am, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 25, 10:44 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 24, 11:12 pm, Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > And, that ignores the ludicrousness of a Pat or Steeler fan ever
> > > > > complaining about officials and both teams have Lombardis to show
> > > > > for it.
>
> > > > Yep… I was thinking exactly just that. MZ is in here biting the hand
> > > > that feeds his team. Bad calls are made week in and week out. The
> > > > Jets are not, nor have they ever been known as a team that brings
> > > > their own officials.
>
> > > That's your impression. It's also everybody's impression that Brady
> > > gets more roughing calls than other QBs, but that argument is easily
> > > defeated. It serves a purpose though -- it tells us about how
> > > impressions are often far removed from reality. We all have something
> > > to learn from this.
>
> > > I think this thread serves as a good demonstration that the Jets are
> > > the lucky recipients of these calls. I can't remember the last time
> > > the Pats got away with such a ludicrous PI as what the Jets got in
> > > this game (on a crucial drive). That's got "C'Mon Man" highlight reel
> > > written all over it. If it was the Pats, there would be a hell of a
> > > lot more people talking about it than the four people in a thread on
> > > usenet. This is where bias and false impressions are born!
>
> > > But I do agree with Harlan and the others that the officials generally
> > > looked like they had no idea what was going on throughout the whole
> > > damned thing (or at least the 2nd half, which is the one I saw).
> > > Their ineptitude just happened to favor the Jets a lot more than the
> > > opposition this time. Next time maybe it goes the other way, and you
> > > and Tutor will start screaming about grassy knoll stuff.
>
> > > > When Shula was with Miami, they got all the calls
> > > > and everyone saw it and knew it. For some time now, it has been the
> > > > Steelers and Pats that get all the calls. Everyone sees it and knows
> > > > it. The Pats would be short at least one Lombardi without some
> > > > "help"
> > > > and the Steelers would be short five of them… May be six. BTW…. The
> > > > Pats would be short all of them without "a little help" picking up
> > > > the
> > > > blitz and calling the right coverage.
>
> > > Oh, right, spygate. I forgot. Here's an exercise for you, Michael.
>
> > > 5 : 2 RUN
> > > 4 : 2 PASS
> > > 5 : 1 RUN
> > > 3 : 2 PASS
> > > 6 : 1 PASS
> > > 7 : 4 PASS
>
> > > If you look closely at the simple "code" above, you can figure out
> > > that one of the trends is that an odd number represents "RUN" and an
> > > even number represents "PASS". So, if you know which of the two
> > > numbers to look at, you can easily decode run or pass. This is a
> > > simplified example, but it mimics how teams use decoys to convey
> > > defensive signals. So, now that you know the code... tell me...
>
> > > 2 : 5 RUN or PASS?
>
> > > You can't, because the whole point of a decoy system is to make the
> > > coding system itself ambiguous. Put another way, not only is the
> > > encoder "encrypted", but so is the decoder. This is actually how lots
> > > of systems (like Netflix, for example) do things. This is why teams
> > > don't generally devote a lot of resources towards attempting to decode
> > > signals. It's only fruitful when teams are lazy and don't use a
> > > decoy. According to Mike Tomlin, everybody knew which teams attempted
> > > to decode signals, and which team videotaped them. Therefore, they
> > > used decoys.
>
> > > Anyone who understands anything about football also understands that
> > > "spygate" had no impact on games, relative to other decoding methods
> > > that teams use (legally). At best, it may have meant that Bob Kraft
> > > saved a few thousand bucks on employee salaries, since the job of
> > > several people could be condensed to the job of one with a video
> > > camera. Spygate was the most overblown news story in the history of
> > > the NFL because it meant nothing. Goodell exacerbated the problem by
> > > handling it stupidly because, as he's proven on several occasions
> > > since then, he's a stupid man.
>
> > > If you want to talk about how cheating may have impacted football
> > > games, let's talk about the accusation that nobody is talking about
> > > (because people tend towards drama instead of intelligence): that the
> > > Patriots may have interrupted QB communication during games. Unlike
> > > spygate, this could have had a real impact on (home) games. I don't
> > > know that there was ever any evidence provided in support for this.
> > > But who would know? The media never covered it! They were too
> > > focused on a non-issue. 0-0-7 stories sell more newspapers.
>
> > Mark... Once in a while, the Jets get a gift just like the rest of the
> > NFL teams. The one that sticks out in my mind is the Vinny T. phantom
> > td vs. the Seahawks. Vinny T. was a clearly a yard short of the goal
> > line. That loss impacted the Seahawks' season as well as the Jets...
> > I'm not talking grassy knoll stuff with the Steelers and Pats... The
> > issue here is not Patriots, Brady or Steelers. It is not even
> > football... The issue here is *media*. The NFL is not a sports or a
> > football phenomenon. It is a media phenomenon. That is where all the
> > money and power comes from. When NFL "brand names" do well, more
> > money is made. Think of Brady as a bottle of expensive designer
> > perfume on the shelf marketed to high income women shopping on 5th
> > Ave... Think of Pittsburg and Rapistburger as a can of beer in the
> > fridge at the corner liquor store all ready to be purchased by an
> > extensive market of inarticulate, uneducated coal/steel/blue collar
> > workers that beat their wives when the Steelers lose. When officials
> > respond to marketing pressures that most certainly exist and
> > subsequently make their way down to the field, it is a media
> > phenomenon. Brand names are promoted and protected for the sake of
> > market appeal and maximizing profits. That would now also include the
> > "fukin Jets". Four prime time Jets games this season and non stop
> > headlines. They are attractive to the media now. Now let's go eat a
> > g*ddam snack !!!
>
> > BTW... Goddell was protecting profits when he spared the league a
> > major media tar and feathering by torching the Eagles walk through
> > that the Pats had taped.
>
> Michael, I understand. But according to many (evidently Tutor among
> them), the gifts started long before the Patriots and Tom Brady became
> a "brand".- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I'd say the first Pats "gift" was the tuck rule. Late that season,
the Pats brand name along with Brady was taking shape. A team of
destiny... Red, white and blue "Patriots" flying our glorious colors
in the midst of a national crisis. Later on it morphed into Tom
Terrific GQ model and so on... The Steelers have been a national
brand name with specific market appeal for much longer. Not saying
that the officials make stuff up... Not at all... With each game comes
strage plays, unpredictable bounces of the oddly shaped ball,
questions regarding the rules... All that stuff happens fortuitously.
When in doubt, or when given an oppetunity, the officials side with
the brand name. An NFL game is very fragile. It takes very little to
influence the outcome. A single call can do the trick and there are
oppertunities to do so on every single play. The Steelers vs.
Seahawks Superbowl is a clinic. Same with Steelers vs. Cardinals
Superbowl.

An interesting bit to consiser... There are two ways to establish an
NFL brand name. You can do it with market identity or you can do it
with "star power". The Pats dont really have a market identity. They
have star power with Brady being their handsome product label. Same
deal with the Jets when they had Sonny Werblin building the "Broadway
Joe" star power. The Raiders, Cowboys, and Steelers all have very
specific marketing identities appart from the roster. IMHO, those
three teams got a lot of "help" along the way. It was all related to
marketing and money. It had nothing to do with who was who's pal or
who was friends with the commish at the time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Interesting Michael...never thought of it that way. I'm referring to your
second paragraph.


== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 5:12 pm
From: Michael


On Oct 25, 6:57 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 4:58 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 25, 4:49 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 25, 3:21 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 25, 2:55 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 25, 2:20 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Oct 25, 11:41 am, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Oct 25, 10:44 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Oct 24, 11:12 pm, Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > And, that ignores the ludicrousness of a Pat or Steeler fan ever
> > > > > > > > > complaining about officials and both teams have Lombardis to show for it.
>
> > > > > > > > Yep… I was thinking exactly just that.  MZ is in here biting the hand
> > > > > > > > that feeds his team.  Bad calls are made week in and week out.  The
> > > > > > > > Jets are not, nor have they ever been known as a team that brings
> > > > > > > > their own officials.
>
> > > > > > > That's your impression.  It's also everybody's impression that Brady
> > > > > > > gets more roughing calls than other QBs, but that argument is easily
> > > > > > > defeated.  It serves a purpose though -- it tells us about how
> > > > > > > impressions are often far removed from reality.  We all have something
> > > > > > > to learn from this.
>
> > > > > > > I think this thread serves as a good demonstration that the Jets are
> > > > > > > the lucky recipients of these calls.  I can't remember the last time
> > > > > > > the Pats got away with such a ludicrous PI as what the Jets got in
> > > > > > > this game (on a crucial drive).  That's got "C'Mon Man" highlight reel
> > > > > > > written all over it.  If it was the Pats, there would be a hell of a
> > > > > > > lot more people talking about it than the four people in a thread on
> > > > > > > usenet.  This is where bias and false impressions are born!
>
> > > > > > > But I do agree with Harlan and the others that the officials generally
> > > > > > > looked like they had no idea what was going on throughout the whole
> > > > > > > damned thing (or at least the 2nd half, which is the one I saw).
> > > > > > > Their ineptitude just happened to favor the Jets a lot more than the
> > > > > > > opposition this time.  Next time maybe it goes the other way, and you
> > > > > > > and Tutor will start screaming about grassy knoll stuff.
>
> > > > > > > > When Shula was with Miami, they got all the calls
> > > > > > > > and everyone saw it and knew it.  For some time now, it has been the
> > > > > > > > Steelers and Pats that get all the calls. Everyone sees it and knows
> > > > > > > > it.  The Pats would be short at least one Lombardi without some "help"
> > > > > > > > and the Steelers would be short five of them… May be six.   BTW…. The
> > > > > > > > Pats would be short all of them without "a little help" picking up the
> > > > > > > > blitz and calling the right coverage.
>
> > > > > > > Oh, right, spygate.  I forgot.  Here's an exercise for you, Michael.
>
> > > > > > > 5 : 2    RUN
> > > > > > > 4 : 2    PASS
> > > > > > > 5 : 1    RUN
> > > > > > > 3 : 2    PASS
> > > > > > > 6 : 1    PASS
> > > > > > > 7 : 4    PASS
>
> > > > > > > If you look closely at the simple "code" above, you can figure out
> > > > > > > that one of the trends is that an odd number represents "RUN" and an
> > > > > > > even number represents "PASS".  So, if you know which of the two
> > > > > > > numbers to look at, you can easily decode run or pass.  This is a
> > > > > > > simplified example, but it mimics how teams use decoys to convey
> > > > > > > defensive signals.  So, now that you know the code... tell me...
>
> > > > > > > 2 : 5    RUN or PASS?
>
> > > > > > > You can't, because the whole point of a decoy system is to make the
> > > > > > > coding system itself ambiguous.  Put another way, not only is the
> > > > > > > encoder "encrypted", but so is the decoder.  This is actually how lots
> > > > > > > of systems (like Netflix, for example) do things.  This is why teams
> > > > > > > don't generally devote a lot of resources towards attempting to decode
> > > > > > > signals.  It's only fruitful when teams are lazy and don't use a
> > > > > > > decoy.  According to Mike Tomlin, everybody knew which teams attempted
> > > > > > > to decode signals, and which team videotaped them.  Therefore, they
> > > > > > > used decoys.
>
> > > > > > > Anyone who understands anything about football also understands that
> > > > > > > "spygate" had no impact on games, relative to other decoding methods
> > > > > > > that teams use (legally).  At best, it may have meant that Bob Kraft
> > > > > > > saved a few thousand bucks on employee salaries, since the job of
> > > > > > > several people could be condensed to the job of one with a video
> > > > > > > camera.  Spygate was the most overblown news story in the history of
> > > > > > > the NFL because it meant nothing.  Goodell exacerbated the problem by
> > > > > > > handling it stupidly because, as he's proven on several occasions
> > > > > > > since then, he's a stupid man.
>
> > > > > > > If you want to talk about how cheating may have impacted football
> > > > > > > games, let's talk about the accusation that nobody is talking about
> > > > > > > (because people tend towards drama instead of intelligence):  that the
> > > > > > > Patriots may have interrupted QB communication during games.  Unlike
> > > > > > > spygate, this could have had a real impact on (home) games.  I don't
> > > > > > > know that there was ever any evidence provided in support for this.
> > > > > > > But who would know?  The media never covered it!  They were too
> > > > > > > focused on a non-issue.  0-0-7 stories sell more newspapers.
>
> > > > > > Mark... Once in a while, the Jets get a gift just like the rest of the
> > > > > > NFL teams.  The one that sticks out in my mind is the Vinny T. phantom
> > > > > > td vs. the Seahawks.  Vinny T. was a clearly a yard short of the goal
> > > > > > line.  That loss impacted the Seahawks' season as well as the Jets...
> > > > > > I'm not talking grassy knoll stuff with the Steelers and Pats... The
> > > > > > issue here is not Patriots, Brady or Steelers.  It is not even
> > > > > > football... The issue here is *media*.  The NFL is not a sports or a
> > > > > > football phenomenon.  It is a media phenomenon.  That is where all the
> > > > > > money and power comes from.  When NFL "brand names" do well, more
> > > > > > money is made.  Think of Brady as a bottle of expensive designer
> > > > > > perfume on the shelf marketed to high income women shopping on 5th
> > > > > > Ave... Think of Pittsburg and Rapistburger as a can of beer in the
> > > > > > fridge at the corner liquor store all ready to be purchased by an
> > > > > > extensive market of inarticulate, uneducated coal/steel/blue collar
> > > > > > workers that beat their wives when the Steelers lose.  When officials
> > > > > > respond to marketing pressures that most certainly exist and
> > > > > > subsequently make their way down to the field, it is a media
> > > > > > phenomenon.  Brand names are promoted and protected for the sake of
> > > > > > market appeal and maximizing profits.  That would now also include the
> > > > > > "fukin Jets".  Four prime time Jets games this season and non stop
> > > > > > headlines.  They are attractive to the media now.  Now let's go eat a
> > > > > > g*ddam snack !!!
>
> > > > > > BTW... Goddell was protecting profits when he spared the league a
> > > > > > major media tar and feathering by torching the Eagles walk through
> > > > > > that the Pats had taped.
>
> > > > > Michael, I understand.  But according to many (evidently Tutor among
> > > > > them), the gifts started long before the Patriots and Tom Brady became
> > > > > a "brand".- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > I'd say the first Pats "gift" was the tuck rule.  Late that season,
> > > > the Pats brand name along with Brady was taking shape.  A team of
> > > > destiny... Red, white and blue "Patriots" flying our glorious colors
> > > > in the midst of a national crisis. Later on it morphed into Tom
> > > > Terrific GQ model and so on...
>
> > > Ummm...that was much later.  After Brady won his first super bowl,
> > > there was a 50/50 debate over whether he should be traded.  Nobody
> > > thought he was any good.  The phrase "system QB" was the most
> > > frequently used phrase to describe him, and he drew comparisons to
> > > Trent Dilfer among all the talking heads.  Nobody, including Pats
> > > fans, ever had any idea he would become what he did.  And nobody gave
> > > them a chance against the "greatest show on turf", a label for the
> > > Rams that the media ran with.  The notion that they were media
> > > darlings back then is totally revisionist history, Michael.
>
> > i dont see it that way... they were instant media darlings because
> > they were the little red while and blue underdogs.
>
> That doesn't make sense to me.  On the one hand, you say there are
> favored teams (Pats, Steelers).  Now you're saying that being an
> underdog makes you a media darling.  These seem like opposite ends of
> the spectrum.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


it makes perfect sense... brand names have great and lasting appeal,
but the mob can be fickle and the winds of public sentiment can blow
in different directions. a single great human interest story about an
appealing individual or "underdog" of the moment can supplant a long
standing brand name... but only for the moment :-) the pats had their
moment with the tuck rule... later they became a brand name courtesy
of handsome tommy terrific and the insufferable dark horse coach that
no one liked until he won something.


== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 6:59 pm
From: MZ


On Oct 25, 8:12 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 6:57 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 25, 4:58 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 25, 4:49 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 25, 3:21 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 25, 2:55 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Oct 25, 2:20 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Oct 25, 11:41 am, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Oct 25, 10:44 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > On Oct 24, 11:12 pm, Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > And, that ignores the ludicrousness of a Pat or Steeler fan ever
> > > > > > > > > > complaining about officials and both teams have Lombardis to show for it.
>
> > > > > > > > > Yep… I was thinking exactly just that.  MZ is in here biting the hand
> > > > > > > > > that feeds his team.  Bad calls are made week in and week out.  The
> > > > > > > > > Jets are not, nor have they ever been known as a team that brings
> > > > > > > > > their own officials.
>
> > > > > > > > That's your impression.  It's also everybody's impression that Brady
> > > > > > > > gets more roughing calls than other QBs, but that argument is easily
> > > > > > > > defeated.  It serves a purpose though -- it tells us about how
> > > > > > > > impressions are often far removed from reality.  We all have something
> > > > > > > > to learn from this.
>
> > > > > > > > I think this thread serves as a good demonstration that the Jets are
> > > > > > > > the lucky recipients of these calls.  I can't remember the last time
> > > > > > > > the Pats got away with such a ludicrous PI as what the Jets got in
> > > > > > > > this game (on a crucial drive).  That's got "C'Mon Man" highlight reel
> > > > > > > > written all over it.  If it was the Pats, there would be a hell of a
> > > > > > > > lot more people talking about it than the four people in a thread on
> > > > > > > > usenet.  This is where bias and false impressions are born!
>
> > > > > > > > But I do agree with Harlan and the others that the officials generally
> > > > > > > > looked like they had no idea what was going on throughout the whole
> > > > > > > > damned thing (or at least the 2nd half, which is the one I saw).
> > > > > > > > Their ineptitude just happened to favor the Jets a lot more than the
> > > > > > > > opposition this time.  Next time maybe it goes the other way, and you
> > > > > > > > and Tutor will start screaming about grassy knoll stuff.
>
> > > > > > > > > When Shula was with Miami, they got all the calls
> > > > > > > > > and everyone saw it and knew it.  For some time now, it has been the
> > > > > > > > > Steelers and Pats that get all the calls. Everyone sees it and knows
> > > > > > > > > it.  The Pats would be short at least one Lombardi without some "help"
> > > > > > > > > and the Steelers would be short five of them… May be six.   BTW…. The
> > > > > > > > > Pats would be short all of them without "a little help" picking up the
> > > > > > > > > blitz and calling the right coverage.
>
> > > > > > > > Oh, right, spygate.  I forgot.  Here's an exercise for you, Michael.
>
> > > > > > > > 5 : 2    RUN
> > > > > > > > 4 : 2    PASS
> > > > > > > > 5 : 1    RUN
> > > > > > > > 3 : 2    PASS
> > > > > > > > 6 : 1    PASS
> > > > > > > > 7 : 4    PASS
>
> > > > > > > > If you look closely at the simple "code" above, you can figure out
> > > > > > > > that one of the trends is that an odd number represents "RUN" and an
> > > > > > > > even number represents "PASS".  So, if you know which of the two
> > > > > > > > numbers to look at, you can easily decode run or pass.  This is a
> > > > > > > > simplified example, but it mimics how teams use decoys to convey
> > > > > > > > defensive signals.  So, now that you know the code... tell me...
>
> > > > > > > > 2 : 5    RUN or PASS?
>
> > > > > > > > You can't, because the whole point of a decoy system is to make the
> > > > > > > > coding system itself ambiguous.  Put another way, not only is the
> > > > > > > > encoder "encrypted", but so is the decoder.  This is actually how lots
> > > > > > > > of systems (like Netflix, for example) do things.  This is why teams
> > > > > > > > don't generally devote a lot of resources towards attempting to decode
> > > > > > > > signals.  It's only fruitful when teams are lazy and don't use a
> > > > > > > > decoy.  According to Mike Tomlin, everybody knew which teams attempted
> > > > > > > > to decode signals, and which team videotaped them.  Therefore, they
> > > > > > > > used decoys.
>
> > > > > > > > Anyone who understands anything about football also understands that
> > > > > > > > "spygate" had no impact on games, relative to other decoding methods
> > > > > > > > that teams use (legally).  At best, it may have meant that Bob Kraft
> > > > > > > > saved a few thousand bucks on employee salaries, since the job of
> > > > > > > > several people could be condensed to the job of one with a video
> > > > > > > > camera.  Spygate was the most overblown news story in the history of
> > > > > > > > the NFL because it meant nothing.  Goodell exacerbated the problem by
> > > > > > > > handling it stupidly because, as he's proven on several occasions
> > > > > > > > since then, he's a stupid man.
>
> > > > > > > > If you want to talk about how cheating may have impacted football
> > > > > > > > games, let's talk about the accusation that nobody is talking about
> > > > > > > > (because people tend towards drama instead of intelligence):  that the
> > > > > > > > Patriots may have interrupted QB communication during games.  Unlike
> > > > > > > > spygate, this could have had a real impact on (home) games.  I don't
> > > > > > > > know that there was ever any evidence provided in support for this.
> > > > > > > > But who would know?  The media never covered it!  They were too
> > > > > > > > focused on a non-issue.  0-0-7 stories sell more newspapers.
>
> > > > > > > Mark... Once in a while, the Jets get a gift just like the rest of the
> > > > > > > NFL teams.  The one that sticks out in my mind is the Vinny T. phantom
> > > > > > > td vs. the Seahawks.  Vinny T. was a clearly a yard short of the goal
> > > > > > > line.  That loss impacted the Seahawks' season as well as the Jets...
> > > > > > > I'm not talking grassy knoll stuff with the Steelers and Pats... The
> > > > > > > issue here is not Patriots, Brady or Steelers.  It is not even
> > > > > > > football... The issue here is *media*.  The NFL is not a sports or a
> > > > > > > football phenomenon.  It is a media phenomenon.  That is where all the
> > > > > > > money and power comes from.  When NFL "brand names" do well, more
> > > > > > > money is made.  Think of Brady as a bottle of expensive designer
> > > > > > > perfume on the shelf marketed to high income women shopping on 5th
> > > > > > > Ave... Think of Pittsburg and Rapistburger as a can of beer in the
> > > > > > > fridge at the corner liquor store all ready to be purchased by an
> > > > > > > extensive market of inarticulate, uneducated coal/steel/blue collar
> > > > > > > workers that beat their wives when the Steelers lose.  When officials
> > > > > > > respond to marketing pressures that most certainly exist and
> > > > > > > subsequently make their way down to the field, it is a media
> > > > > > > phenomenon.  Brand names are promoted and protected for the sake of
> > > > > > > market appeal and maximizing profits.  That would now also include the
> > > > > > > "fukin Jets".  Four prime time Jets games this season and non stop
> > > > > > > headlines.  They are attractive to the media now.  Now let's go eat a
> > > > > > > g*ddam snack !!!
>
> > > > > > > BTW... Goddell was protecting profits when he spared the league a
> > > > > > > major media tar and feathering by torching the Eagles walk through
> > > > > > > that the Pats had taped.
>
> > > > > > Michael, I understand.  But according to many (evidently Tutor among
> > > > > > them), the gifts started long before the Patriots and Tom Brady became
> > > > > > a "brand".- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > I'd say the first Pats "gift" was the tuck rule.  Late that season,
> > > > > the Pats brand name along with Brady was taking shape.  A team of
> > > > > destiny... Red, white and blue "Patriots" flying our glorious colors
> > > > > in the midst of a national crisis. Later on it morphed into Tom
> > > > > Terrific GQ model and so on...
>
> > > > Ummm...that was much later.  After Brady won his first super bowl,
> > > > there was a 50/50 debate over whether he should be traded.  Nobody
> > > > thought he was any good.  The phrase "system QB" was the most
> > > > frequently used phrase to describe him, and he drew comparisons to
> > > > Trent Dilfer among all the talking heads.  Nobody, including Pats
> > > > fans, ever had any idea he would become what he did.  And nobody gave
> > > > them a chance against the "greatest show on turf", a label for the
> > > > Rams that the media ran with.  The notion that they were media
> > > > darlings back then is totally revisionist history, Michael.
>
> > > i dont see it that way... they were instant media darlings because
> > > they were the little red while and blue underdogs.
>
> > That doesn't make sense to me.  On the one hand, you say there are
> > favored teams (Pats, Steelers).  Now you're saying that being an
> > underdog makes you a media darling.  These seem like opposite ends of
> > the spectrum.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> it makes perfect sense... brand names have great and lasting appeal,
> but the mob can be fickle and the winds of public sentiment can blow
> in different directions. a single great human interest story about an
> appealing individual or "underdog" of the moment can supplant a long
> standing brand name... but only for the moment :-)  the pats had their
> moment with the tuck rule... later they became a brand name courtesy
> of handsome tommy terrific and the insufferable dark horse coach that
> no one liked until he won something.

Possible. Or, like every other profession, incompetence is all too
common an occurrence, and the NFL officials just F up sometimes. Add
to the fact that they're part of a good ol' boys club, where they only
get fired when they molest a farm animal, and face zero consequences
for being sucky at their (part time!) jobs, and you have the sorry
state of officiating that you have today. It's what you get when you
supplant "skill" with "connections".

This is directly in contrast with your hypothesis, which actually
assumes competence. I'm not willing to give them that much credit.


== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 7:06 pm
From: Michael


On Oct 25, 9:59 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 8:12 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 25, 6:57 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 25, 4:58 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 25, 4:49 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 25, 3:21 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Oct 25, 2:55 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Oct 25, 2:20 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Oct 25, 11:41 am, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > On Oct 25, 10:44 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Oct 24, 11:12 pm, Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > And, that ignores the ludicrousness of a Pat or Steeler fan ever
> > > > > > > > > > > complaining about officials and both teams have Lombardis to show for it.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Yep… I was thinking exactly just that.  MZ is in here biting the hand
> > > > > > > > > > that feeds his team.  Bad calls are made week in and week out.  The
> > > > > > > > > > Jets are not, nor have they ever been known as a team that brings
> > > > > > > > > > their own officials.
>
> > > > > > > > > That's your impression.  It's also everybody's impression that Brady
> > > > > > > > > gets more roughing calls than other QBs, but that argument is easily
> > > > > > > > > defeated.  It serves a purpose though -- it tells us about how
> > > > > > > > > impressions are often far removed from reality.  We all have something
> > > > > > > > > to learn from this.
>
> > > > > > > > > I think this thread serves as a good demonstration that the Jets are
> > > > > > > > > the lucky recipients of these calls.  I can't remember the last time
> > > > > > > > > the Pats got away with such a ludicrous PI as what the Jets got in
> > > > > > > > > this game (on a crucial drive).  That's got "C'Mon Man" highlight reel
> > > > > > > > > written all over it.  If it was the Pats, there would be a hell of a
> > > > > > > > > lot more people talking about it than the four people in a thread on
> > > > > > > > > usenet.  This is where bias and false impressions are born!
>
> > > > > > > > > But I do agree with Harlan and the others that the officials generally
> > > > > > > > > looked like they had no idea what was going on throughout the whole
> > > > > > > > > damned thing (or at least the 2nd half, which is the one I saw).
> > > > > > > > > Their ineptitude just happened to favor the Jets a lot more than the
> > > > > > > > > opposition this time.  Next time maybe it goes the other way, and you
> > > > > > > > > and Tutor will start screaming about grassy knoll stuff.
>
> > > > > > > > > > When Shula was with Miami, they got all the calls
> > > > > > > > > > and everyone saw it and knew it.  For some time now, it has been the
> > > > > > > > > > Steelers and Pats that get all the calls. Everyone sees it and knows
> > > > > > > > > > it.  The Pats would be short at least one Lombardi without some "help"
> > > > > > > > > > and the Steelers would be short five of them… May be six.   BTW…. The
> > > > > > > > > > Pats would be short all of them without "a little help" picking up the
> > > > > > > > > > blitz and calling the right coverage.
>
> > > > > > > > > Oh, right, spygate.  I forgot.  Here's an exercise for you, Michael.
>
> > > > > > > > > 5 : 2    RUN
> > > > > > > > > 4 : 2    PASS
> > > > > > > > > 5 : 1    RUN
> > > > > > > > > 3 : 2    PASS
> > > > > > > > > 6 : 1    PASS
> > > > > > > > > 7 : 4    PASS
>
> > > > > > > > > If you look closely at the simple "code" above, you can figure out
> > > > > > > > > that one of the trends is that an odd number represents "RUN" and an
> > > > > > > > > even number represents "PASS".  So, if you know which of the two
> > > > > > > > > numbers to look at, you can easily decode run or pass.  This is a
> > > > > > > > > simplified example, but it mimics how teams use decoys to convey
> > > > > > > > > defensive signals.  So, now that you know the code... tell me...
>
> > > > > > > > > 2 : 5    RUN or PASS?
>
> > > > > > > > > You can't, because the whole point of a decoy system is to make the
> > > > > > > > > coding system itself ambiguous.  Put another way, not only is the
> > > > > > > > > encoder "encrypted", but so is the decoder.  This is actually how lots
> > > > > > > > > of systems (like Netflix, for example) do things.  This is why teams
> > > > > > > > > don't generally devote a lot of resources towards attempting to decode
> > > > > > > > > signals.  It's only fruitful when teams are lazy and don't use a
> > > > > > > > > decoy.  According to Mike Tomlin, everybody knew which teams attempted
> > > > > > > > > to decode signals, and which team videotaped them.  Therefore, they
> > > > > > > > > used decoys.
>
> > > > > > > > > Anyone who understands anything about football also understands that
> > > > > > > > > "spygate" had no impact on games, relative to other decoding methods
> > > > > > > > > that teams use (legally).  At best, it may have meant that Bob Kraft
> > > > > > > > > saved a few thousand bucks on employee salaries, since the job of
> > > > > > > > > several people could be condensed to the job of one with a video
> > > > > > > > > camera.  Spygate was the most overblown news story in the history of
> > > > > > > > > the NFL because it meant nothing.  Goodell exacerbated the problem by
> > > > > > > > > handling it stupidly because, as he's proven on several occasions
> > > > > > > > > since then, he's a stupid man.
>
> > > > > > > > > If you want to talk about how cheating may have impacted football
> > > > > > > > > games, let's talk about the accusation that nobody is talking about
> > > > > > > > > (because people tend towards drama instead of intelligence):  that the
> > > > > > > > > Patriots may have interrupted QB communication during games.  Unlike
> > > > > > > > > spygate, this could have had a real impact on (home) games.  I don't
> > > > > > > > > know that there was ever any evidence provided in support for this.
> > > > > > > > > But who would know?  The media never covered it!  They were too
> > > > > > > > > focused on a non-issue.  0-0-7 stories sell more newspapers.
>
> > > > > > > > Mark... Once in a while, the Jets get a gift just like the rest of the
> > > > > > > > NFL teams.  The one that sticks out in my mind is the Vinny T. phantom
> > > > > > > > td vs. the Seahawks.  Vinny T. was a clearly a yard short of the goal
> > > > > > > > line.  That loss impacted the Seahawks' season as well as the Jets...
> > > > > > > > I'm not talking grassy knoll stuff with the Steelers and Pats... The
> > > > > > > > issue here is not Patriots, Brady or Steelers.  It is not even
> > > > > > > > football... The issue here is *media*.  The NFL is not a sports or a
> > > > > > > > football phenomenon.  It is a media phenomenon.  That is where all the
> > > > > > > > money and power comes from.  When NFL "brand names" do well, more
> > > > > > > > money is made.  Think of Brady as a bottle of expensive designer
> > > > > > > > perfume on the shelf marketed to high income women shopping on 5th
> > > > > > > > Ave... Think of Pittsburg and Rapistburger as a can of beer in the
> > > > > > > > fridge at the corner liquor store all ready to be purchased by an
> > > > > > > > extensive market of inarticulate, uneducated coal/steel/blue collar
> > > > > > > > workers that beat their wives when the Steelers lose.  When officials
> > > > > > > > respond to marketing pressures that most certainly exist and
> > > > > > > > subsequently make their way down to the field, it is a media
> > > > > > > > phenomenon.  Brand names are promoted and protected for the sake of
> > > > > > > > market appeal and maximizing profits.  That would now also include the
> > > > > > > > "fukin Jets".  Four prime time Jets games this season and non stop
> > > > > > > > headlines.  They are attractive to the media now.  Now let's go eat a
> > > > > > > > g*ddam snack !!!
>
> > > > > > > > BTW... Goddell was protecting profits when he spared the league a
> > > > > > > > major media tar and feathering by torching the Eagles walk through
> > > > > > > > that the Pats had taped.
>
> > > > > > > Michael, I understand.  But according to many (evidently Tutor among
> > > > > > > them), the gifts started long before the Patriots and Tom Brady became
> > > > > > > a "brand".- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > > I'd say the first Pats "gift" was the tuck rule.  Late that season,
> > > > > > the Pats brand name along with Brady was taking shape.  A team of
> > > > > > destiny... Red, white and blue "Patriots" flying our glorious colors
> > > > > > in the midst of a national crisis. Later on it morphed into Tom
> > > > > > Terrific GQ model and so on...
>
> > > > > Ummm...that was much later.  After Brady won his first super bowl,
> > > > > there was a 50/50 debate over whether he should be traded.  Nobody
> > > > > thought he was any good.  The phrase "system QB" was the most
> > > > > frequently used phrase to describe him, and he drew comparisons to
> > > > > Trent Dilfer among all the talking heads.  Nobody, including Pats
> > > > > fans, ever had any idea he would become what he did.  And nobody gave
> > > > > them a chance against the "greatest show on turf", a label for the
> > > > > Rams that the media ran with.  The notion that they were media
> > > > > darlings back then is totally revisionist history, Michael.
>
> > > > i dont see it that way... they were instant media darlings because
> > > > they were the little red while and blue underdogs.
>
> > > That doesn't make sense to me.  On the one hand, you say there are
> > > favored teams (Pats, Steelers).  Now you're saying that being an
> > > underdog makes you a media darling.  These seem like opposite ends of
> > > the spectrum.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > it makes perfect sense... brand names have great and lasting appeal,
> > but the mob can be fickle and the winds of public sentiment can blow
> > in different directions. a single great human interest story about an
> > appealing individual or "underdog" of the moment can supplant a long
> > standing brand name... but only for the moment :-)  the pats had their
> > moment with the tuck rule... later they became a brand name courtesy
> > of handsome tommy terrific and the insufferable dark horse coach that
> > no one liked until he won something.
>
> Possible.  Or, like every other profession, incompetence is all too
> common an occurrence, and the NFL officials just F up sometimes.  Add
> to the fact that they're part of a good ol' boys club, where they only
> get fired when they molest a farm animal, and face zero consequences
> for being sucky at their (part time!) jobs, and you have the sorry
> state of officiating that you have today.  It's what you get when you
> supplant "skill" with "connections".
>
> This is directly in contrast with your hypothesis, which actually
> assumes competence.  I'm not willing to give them that much credit.

both play a role... there are blown calls due to human fallibility and
inaptitude as you have pointed out and there are calls that are made
in favor of the brand names.


== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 8:09 pm
From: "Papa Carl"

"MZ" <forums@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote in message
news:ac24bb3e-0c3d-4bc2-a7d5-026d8946215c@l12g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 25, 8:12 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 6:57 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 25, 4:58 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 25, 4:49 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 25, 3:21 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 25, 2:55 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Oct 25, 2:20 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Oct 25, 11:41 am, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Oct 25, 10:44 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > On Oct 24, 11:12 pm, Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > And, that ignores the ludicrousness of a Pat or Steeler
> > > > > > > > > > fan ever
> > > > > > > > > > complaining about officials and both teams have
> > > > > > > > > > Lombardis to show for it.
>
> > > > > > > > > Yep� I was thinking exactly just that. MZ is in here
> > > > > > > > > biting the hand
> > > > > > > > > that feeds his team. Bad calls are made week in and week
> > > > > > > > > out. The
> > > > > > > > > Jets are not, nor have they ever been known as a team that
> > > > > > > > > brings
> > > > > > > > > their own officials.
>
> > > > > > > > That's your impression. It's also everybody's impression
> > > > > > > > that Brady
> > > > > > > > gets more roughing calls than other QBs, but that argument
> > > > > > > > is easily
> > > > > > > > defeated. It serves a purpose though -- it tells us about
> > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > impressions are often far removed from reality. We all have
> > > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > to learn from this.
>
> > > > > > > > I think this thread serves as a good demonstration that the
> > > > > > > > Jets are
> > > > > > > > the lucky recipients of these calls. I can't remember the
> > > > > > > > last time
> > > > > > > > the Pats got away with such a ludicrous PI as what the Jets
> > > > > > > > got in
> > > > > > > > this game (on a crucial drive). That's got "C'Mon Man"
> > > > > > > > highlight reel
> > > > > > > > written all over it. If it was the Pats, there would be a
> > > > > > > > hell of a
> > > > > > > > lot more people talking about it than the four people in a
> > > > > > > > thread on
> > > > > > > > usenet. This is where bias and false impressions are born!
>
> > > > > > > > But I do agree with Harlan and the others that the officials
> > > > > > > > generally
> > > > > > > > looked like they had no idea what was going on throughout
> > > > > > > > the whole
> > > > > > > > damned thing (or at least the 2nd half, which is the one I
> > > > > > > > saw).
> > > > > > > > Their ineptitude just happened to favor the Jets a lot more
> > > > > > > > than the
> > > > > > > > opposition this time. Next time maybe it goes the other way,
> > > > > > > > and you
> > > > > > > > and Tutor will start screaming about grassy knoll stuff.
>
> > > > > > > > > When Shula was with Miami, they got all the calls
> > > > > > > > > and everyone saw it and knew it. For some time now, it has
> > > > > > > > > been the
> > > > > > > > > Steelers and Pats that get all the calls. Everyone sees it
> > > > > > > > > and knows
> > > > > > > > > it. The Pats would be short at least one Lombardi without
> > > > > > > > > some �help�
> > > > > > > > > and the Steelers would be short five of them� May be six.
> > > > > > > > > BTW�. The
> > > > > > > > > Pats would be short all of them without �a little help�
> > > > > > > > > picking up the
> > > > > > > > > blitz and calling the right coverage.
>
> > > > > > > > Oh, right, spygate. I forgot. Here's an exercise for you,
> > > > > > > > Michael.
>
> > > > > > > > 5 : 2 RUN
> > > > > > > > 4 : 2 PASS
> > > > > > > > 5 : 1 RUN
> > > > > > > > 3 : 2 PASS
> > > > > > > > 6 : 1 PASS
> > > > > > > > 7 : 4 PASS
>
> > > > > > > > If you look closely at the simple "code" above, you can
> > > > > > > > figure out
> > > > > > > > that one of the trends is that an odd number represents
> > > > > > > > "RUN" and an
> > > > > > > > even number represents "PASS". So, if you know which of the
> > > > > > > > two
> > > > > > > > numbers to look at, you can easily decode run or pass. This
> > > > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > simplified example, but it mimics how teams use decoys to
> > > > > > > > convey
> > > > > > > > defensive signals. So, now that you know the code... tell
> > > > > > > > me...
>
> > > > > > > > 2 : 5 RUN or PASS?
>
> > > > > > > > You can't, because the whole point of a decoy system is to
> > > > > > > > make the
> > > > > > > > coding system itself ambiguous. Put another way, not only is
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > encoder "encrypted", but so is the decoder. This is actually
> > > > > > > > how lots
> > > > > > > > of systems (like Netflix, for example) do things. This is
> > > > > > > > why teams
> > > > > > > > don't generally devote a lot of resources towards attempting
> > > > > > > > to decode
> > > > > > > > signals. It's only fruitful when teams are lazy and don't
> > > > > > > > use a
> > > > > > > > decoy. According to Mike Tomlin, everybody knew which teams
> > > > > > > > attempted
> > > > > > > > to decode signals, and which team videotaped them.
> > > > > > > > Therefore, they
> > > > > > > > used decoys.
>
> > > > > > > > Anyone who understands anything about football also
> > > > > > > > understands that
> > > > > > > > "spygate" had no impact on games, relative to other decoding
> > > > > > > > methods
> > > > > > > > that teams use (legally). At best, it may have meant that
> > > > > > > > Bob Kraft
> > > > > > > > saved a few thousand bucks on employee salaries, since the
> > > > > > > > job of
> > > > > > > > several people could be condensed to the job of one with a
> > > > > > > > video
> > > > > > > > camera. Spygate was the most overblown news story in the
> > > > > > > > history of
> > > > > > > > the NFL because it meant nothing. Goodell exacerbated the
> > > > > > > > problem by
> > > > > > > > handling it stupidly because, as he's proven on several
> > > > > > > > occasions
> > > > > > > > since then, he's a stupid man.
>
> > > > > > > > If you want to talk about how cheating may have impacted
> > > > > > > > football
> > > > > > > > games, let's talk about the accusation that nobody is
> > > > > > > > talking about
> > > > > > > > (because people tend towards drama instead of intelligence):
> > > > > > > > that the
> > > > > > > > Patriots may have interrupted QB communication during games.
> > > > > > > > Unlike
> > > > > > > > spygate, this could have had a real impact on (home) games.
> > > > > > > > I don't
> > > > > > > > know that there was ever any evidence provided in support
> > > > > > > > for this.
> > > > > > > > But who would know? The media never covered it! They were
> > > > > > > > too
> > > > > > > > focused on a non-issue. 0-0-7 stories sell more newspapers.
>
> > > > > > > Mark... Once in a while, the Jets get a gift just like the
> > > > > > > rest of the
> > > > > > > NFL teams. The one that sticks out in my mind is the Vinny T.
> > > > > > > phantom
> > > > > > > td vs. the Seahawks. Vinny T. was a clearly a yard short of
> > > > > > > the goal
> > > > > > > line. That loss impacted the Seahawks' season as well as the
> > > > > > > Jets...
> > > > > > > I'm not talking grassy knoll stuff with the Steelers and
> > > > > > > Pats... The
> > > > > > > issue here is not Patriots, Brady or Steelers. It is not even
> > > > > > > football... The issue here is *media*. The NFL is not a sports
> > > > > > > or a
> > > > > > > football phenomenon. It is a media phenomenon. That is where
> > > > > > > all the
> > > > > > > money and power comes from. When NFL "brand names" do well,
> > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > money is made. Think of Brady as a bottle of expensive
> > > > > > > designer
> > > > > > > perfume on the shelf marketed to high income women shopping on
> > > > > > > 5th
> > > > > > > Ave... Think of Pittsburg and Rapistburger as a can of beer in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > fridge at the corner liquor store all ready to be purchased by
> > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > extensive market of inarticulate, uneducated coal/steel/blue
> > > > > > > collar
> > > > > > > workers that beat their wives when the Steelers lose. When
> > > > > > > officials
> > > > > > > respond to marketing pressures that most certainly exist and
> > > > > > > subsequently make their way down to the field, it is a media
> > > > > > > phenomenon. Brand names are promoted and protected for the
> > > > > > > sake of
> > > > > > > market appeal and maximizing profits. That would now also
> > > > > > > include the
> > > > > > > "fukin Jets". Four prime time Jets games this season and non
> > > > > > > stop
> > > > > > > headlines. They are attractive to the media now. Now let�s go
> > > > > > > eat a
> > > > > > > g*ddam snack !!!
>
> > > > > > > BTW... Goddell was protecting profits when he spared the
> > > > > > > league a
> > > > > > > major media tar and feathering by torching the Eagles walk
> > > > > > > through
> > > > > > > that the Pats had taped.
>
> > > > > > Michael, I understand. But according to many (evidently Tutor
> > > > > > among
> > > > > > them), the gifts started long before the Patriots and Tom Brady
> > > > > > became
> > > > > > a "brand".- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > I'd say the first Pats "gift" was the tuck rule. Late that season,
> > > > > the Pats brand name along with Brady was taking shape. A team of
> > > > > destiny... Red, white and blue "Patriots" flying our glorious
> > > > > colors
> > > > > in the midst of a national crisis. Later on it morphed into Tom
> > > > > Terrific GQ model and so on...
>
> > > > Ummm...that was much later. After Brady won his first super bowl,
> > > > there was a 50/50 debate over whether he should be traded. Nobody
> > > > thought he was any good. The phrase "system QB" was the most
> > > > frequently used phrase to describe him, and he drew comparisons to
> > > > Trent Dilfer among all the talking heads. Nobody, including Pats
> > > > fans, ever had any idea he would become what he did. And nobody gave
> > > > them a chance against the "greatest show on turf", a label for the
> > > > Rams that the media ran with. The notion that they were media
> > > > darlings back then is totally revisionist history, Michael.
>
> > > i dont see it that way... they were instant media darlings because
> > > they were the little red while and blue underdogs.
>
> > That doesn't make sense to me. On the one hand, you say there are
> > favored teams (Pats, Steelers). Now you're saying that being an
> > underdog makes you a media darling. These seem like opposite ends of
> > the spectrum.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> it makes perfect sense... brand names have great and lasting appeal,
> but the mob can be fickle and the winds of public sentiment can blow
> in different directions. a single great human interest story about an
> appealing individual or "underdog" of the moment can supplant a long
> standing brand name... but only for the moment :-) the pats had their
> moment with the tuck rule... later they became a brand name courtesy
> of handsome tommy terrific and the insufferable dark horse coach that
> no one liked until he won something.

Possible. Or, like every other profession, incompetence is all too
common an occurrence, and the NFL officials just F up sometimes. Add
to the fact that they're part of a good ol' boys club, where they only
get fired when they molest a farm animal, and face zero consequences
for being sucky at their (part time!) jobs, and you have the sorry
state of officiating that you have today. It's what you get when you
supplant "skill" with "connections".

This is directly in contrast with your hypothesis, which actually
assumes competence. I'm not willing to give them that much credit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mark, I think you got it here...the good old boys club...that imcompetence
covers it all because it also breeds bias at times. But they are just that,
part timers doing a job they trained for coaching high school games and then
come college. Nowhere were they really held accountable.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Would you make this deal?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/5ec6f772825c0e3a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 12:33 pm
From: oldnasty@mindspring.com


On Tuesday, October 25, 2011 1:14:24 PM UTC-4, graybeard wrote:
> Let's say that Tim Tebow plays very well the rest of the season, but
> that the Broncos have so many problems that they still get a top 10, or
> even a top 5 pick in the draft.
>
> And let's say that the Dolphins are really as bad as they have looked
> and they beat out the Colts for the #1 pick.
>
> If you are Miami, do you offer to trade the #1 pick to Denver for Tebow
> and the Broncos' first rounder?
>
> Tebow would certainly put people in the seats in Miami, and Elway would
> love to grab the best QB prospect coming out of Stanford since himself.
>
> Or is Luck just too good a player to pass up?
>
> By the way, I originally typed that Tebow would put asses in the seats
> in Miami, but then I realized that someone wouldn't be able to resist
> replying that there are already enough asses in the seats in Miami ;-)
> --
> graybeard

After watching him on Sunday I say, now more than ever, Denver should put in a single-wing package for Tebow. What has that team got to lose? It'd at least make the rest of the season fun and interesting with team being talked about.

As to the trade, what position would the Dolphins play him at? Fullback? Linebacker? That seems a lot to pay for one of them.

If QB, I dunno, does guaranteeing your team will be in last place for at least another three years sell at lot of season tickets?

FOers on Tebow's performance Sunday:

"Tebow, the clutchiest heartiest grittiest winningest leader who ever led his team to win a clutchy hearty gritty thing, had -11 DYAR in overtime. Keep in mind that he did all this against the Dolphins, who came into the weekend 30th against the pass in our defensive rankings. Expect darker days when the competition gets tougher against Detroit next week.

"And the mind reels at what could happen when the Broncos play Rex Ryan and the Jets on a Thursday night in November."


== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 3:41 pm
From: Tutor


On Oct 25, 2:46 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 2:43 pm, Deadmeat <Deadmeat> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 10/25/2011 2:20 PM, graybeard wrote:
>
> > > On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:49:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael<mjd1...@verizon.net>
> > > wrote:
>
> > >> On Oct 25, 1:14 pm, graybeard<graybe...@invalid.invalid>  wrote:
> > >>> Let's say that Tim Tebow plays very well the rest of the season, but
> > >>> that the Broncos have so many problems that they still get a top 10, or
> > >>> even a top 5 pick in the draft.
>
> > >>> And let's say that the Dolphins are really as bad as they have looked
> > >>> and they beat out the Colts for the #1 pick.
>
> > >>> If you are Miami, do you offer to trade the #1 pick to Denver for Tebow
> > >>> and the Broncos' first rounder?
>
> > >>> Tebow would certainly put people in the seats in Miami, and Elway would
> > >>> love to grab the best QB prospect coming out of Stanford since himself.
>
> > >>> Or is Luck just too good a player to pass up?
>
> > >>> By the way, I originally typed that Tebow would put asses in the seats
> > >>> in Miami, but then I realized that someone wouldn't be able to resist
> > >>> replying that there are already enough asses in the seats in Miami ;-)
> > >>> --
> > >>> graybeard
>
> > >> the only guy on the jets i would trade for tebow is wayne hunter.
>
> > > I don't recall mentioning the Jets. Tebow does not have the
> > > marketability in New York that he has in Miami.
>
> > With the exception of a few Gator fans, most football fans in Miami
> > hate Tebow.  There were a lot of Tebow fans at the game on Sunday, only
> > because the Dolphins suck and they were able to scoop up a bunch of
> > tickets because of the Gators being honored that day.
>
> > Nice try, however.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> well, at least you guys are leading the "suck for luck" contest.  i
> REALLY hope the Fish get him.  it sucks not having good rival teams
> other than the pats.  we'll see what the bills are very soon...

if the fish and colts tie for worst, doesn't it go to the team with
the easier strength of schedule? Probably be the colts


== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 3:58 pm
From: Deadmeat


On 10/25/2011 6:41 PM, Tutor wrote:
> On Oct 25, 2:46 pm, Michael<mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Oct 25, 2:43 pm, Deadmeat<Deadmeat> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 10/25/2011 2:20 PM, graybeard wrote:
>>
>>>> On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:49:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael<mjd1...@verizon.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>> On Oct 25, 1:14 pm, graybeard<graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> Let's say that Tim Tebow plays very well the rest of the season, but
>>>>>> that the Broncos have so many problems that they still get a top 10, or
>>>>>> even a top 5 pick in the draft.
>>
>>>>>> And let's say that the Dolphins are really as bad as they have looked
>>>>>> and they beat out the Colts for the #1 pick.
>>
>>>>>> If you are Miami, do you offer to trade the #1 pick to Denver for Tebow
>>>>>> and the Broncos' first rounder?
>>
>>>>>> Tebow would certainly put people in the seats in Miami, and Elway would
>>>>>> love to grab the best QB prospect coming out of Stanford since himself.
>>
>>>>>> Or is Luck just too good a player to pass up?
>>
>>>>>> By the way, I originally typed that Tebow would put asses in the seats
>>>>>> in Miami, but then I realized that someone wouldn't be able to resist
>>>>>> replying that there are already enough asses in the seats in Miami ;-)
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> graybeard
>>
>>>>> the only guy on the jets i would trade for tebow is wayne hunter.
>>
>>>> I don't recall mentioning the Jets. Tebow does not have the
>>>> marketability in New York that he has in Miami.
>>
>>> With the exception of a few Gator fans, most football fans in Miami
>>> hate Tebow. There were a lot of Tebow fans at the game on Sunday, only
>>> because the Dolphins suck and they were able to scoop up a bunch of
>>> tickets because of the Gators being honored that day.
>>
>>> Nice try, however.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> well, at least you guys are leading the "suck for luck" contest. i
>> REALLY hope the Fish get him. it sucks not having good rival teams
>> other than the pats. we'll see what the bills are very soon...
>
> if the fish and colts tie for worst, doesn't it go to the team with
> the easier strength of schedule? Probably be the colts


Yep, it would be the colts. Maybe they'll trade their No.1 for Tebow.


== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 4:45 pm
From: John C TX


On Oct 25, 1:25 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 2:20 pm, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:49:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > >On Oct 25, 1:14 pm, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > >> Let's say that Tim Tebow plays very well the rest of the season, but
> > >> that the Broncos have so many problems that they still get a top 10, or
> > >> even a top 5 pick in the draft.
>
> > >> And let's say that the Dolphins are really as bad as they have looked
> > >> and they beat out the Colts for the #1 pick.
>
> > >> If you are Miami, do you offer to trade the #1 pick to Denver for Tebow
> > >> and the Broncos' first rounder?
>
> > >> Tebow would certainly put people in the seats in Miami, and Elway would
> > >> love to grab the best QB prospect coming out of Stanford since himself.
>
> > >> Or is Luck just too good a player to pass up?
>
> > >> By the way, I originally typed that Tebow would put asses in the seats
> > >> in Miami, but then I realized that someone wouldn't be able to resist
> > >> replying that there are already enough asses in the seats in Miami ;-)
> > >> --
> > >> graybeard
>
> > >the only guy on the jets i would trade for tebow is wayne hunter.
>
> > I don't recall mentioning the Jets. Tebow does not have the
> > marketability in New York that he has in Miami.
> > --
> > graybeard- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> pardon... i'll check my sense of humor at the door next time :-)

At least he didn't curse at you.

:)

Gray, Luck could be the next great QB. Tebow is a white Brad Smith
who can't run back kicks.


== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 5:10 pm
From: Señor Patriots


On Oct 25, 12:14 pm, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> By the way, I originally typed that Tebow would put asses in the seats
> in Miami,

Gray, I'd be very worried - like VERY worried - that he'd put asses
in the seats for about six games and then everybody would be throwing
the season tickets into the bonfire outside the stadium. You know how
fickle football fans are. Couple that with the high potential for
BUST and I would never make that trade.

Besides, Luck is one heck of a QB.


== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 5:13 pm
From: Señor Patriots


On Oct 25, 6:45 pm, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Gray, Luck could be the next great QB.  Tebow is a white Brad Smith
> who can't run back kicks.

According to ever QB that I've heard speak on the matter, Tebow's
mechanics are so horrible that he simply better be the world's fastest
learner or he's going to embarrass himself.

All the hype makes me wary of who he really is. From what I can tell
(not that much) he's not going to be in the league that long.


== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 8:07 pm
From: graybeard


On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 17:10:29 -0700 (PDT), Señor Patriots
<roaming13@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Oct 25, 12:14 pm, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>
>> By the way, I originally typed that Tebow would put asses in the seats
>> in Miami,
>
>Gray, I'd be very worried - like VERY worried - that he'd put asses
>in the seats for about six games and then everybody would be throwing
>the season tickets into the bonfire outside the stadium. You know how
>fickle football fans are. Couple that with the high potential for
>BUST and I would never make that trade.
>
>Besides, Luck is one heck of a QB.

SP, thanks for making a cogent, reasoned argument, rather than the
knee-jerk responses that some others have contributed. Notice I never
asked if anyone would make that trade now - I certainly wouldn't. I
stipulated that Tebow would have to play very well for the rest of the
season, in other words he would play well enough to make the idea of the
trade more intriguing.
--
graybeard


== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 8:09 pm
From: graybeard


On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:45:55 -0700 (PDT), John C TX
<johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote:

>Gray, Luck could be the next great QB. Tebow is a white Brad Smith
>who can't run back kicks.

Ever see Joe Kapp play?
--
graybeard


== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 8:19 pm
From: Deadmeat


On 10/25/2011 11:07 PM, graybeard wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 17:10:29 -0700 (PDT), Señor Patriots
> <roaming13@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 25, 12:14 pm, graybeard<graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> By the way, I originally typed that Tebow would put asses in the seats
>>> in Miami,
>>
>> Gray, I'd be very worried - like VERY worried - that he'd put asses
>> in the seats for about six games and then everybody would be throwing
>> the season tickets into the bonfire outside the stadium. You know how
>> fickle football fans are. Couple that with the high potential for
>> BUST and I would never make that trade.
>>
>> Besides, Luck is one heck of a QB.
>
> SP, thanks for making a cogent, reasoned argument, rather than the
> knee-jerk responses that some others have contributed. Notice I never
> asked if anyone would make that trade now - I certainly wouldn't. I
> stipulated that Tebow would have to play very well for the rest of the
> season, in other words he would play well enough to make the idea of the
> trade more intriguing.


I'm sorry, did mt knee jerk reactions offend your delicate sensibilities?

The guy has shown no ability to play in the NFL whatsoever, and unless
Jesus helps him out the rest of the season, he ain't getting any better.
So my knee jerk reaction was to one of the most ridiculous questions
I've heard when it comes to Tebow.


== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 9:00 pm
From: "Papa Carl"

"graybeard" <graybeard@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:reuea7lcrh987ipnj0fi2ge79do26c9lg7@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:45:55 -0700 (PDT), John C TX
> <johnctxjets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Gray, Luck could be the next great QB. Tebow is a white Brad Smith
>>who can't run back kicks.
>
> Ever see Joe Kapp play?
> --
> graybeard

Gray...that was back when they still played football though.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sign Up Shonn Greene On the Cheap Now
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/a4e1f911e8d9e062?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 6:49 pm
From: oldnasty@mindspring.com


On Monday, October 24, 2011 8:56:51 PM UTC-4, JetsLife wrote:
> This kid has proven just how he good he is when he has some space.
>
> He's awesome, runs people over, his last name is Greene, he's from
> Jersey. Enough said.
>
> Sign him up on the cheap, now, Jets.

For the rest of the season the Jets play the 30th-ranked -- 3rd easiest -- schedule of opposing run defenses, says FOers.

So Shonn may start looking suddenly better than his 3.8 until now. Re-sign him now before it goes to his agent's head.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Win a $50 gift card by participating in short political study
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.ny-jets/t/080361ada8de5c0d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 25 2011 8:32 pm
From: Matt Harris


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